S02.E04: SAFE ROOM

[cardigirl]

Roman begins a six-week management training program; Connor and Willa attend the funeral of a family friend with a complicated past; Logan and Kendall arrange a covert meeting with PGM CEO Rhea Jarrell; controversy surrounds a star anchor.

[cardigirl]

Not sure why, but this episode is already available on HBO On Demand. 

Except for Shiv’s duck-facing all the way through the episode, I really liked it. Really, does that actress have no other facial expression? 

It fired on all cylinders for me. Funny, with just a smidge of pathos. 

[scrb]

Rome and Gerri, sitting  in a tree, kissin ...

WTH, he couldn't do phone sex with Tabitha so he calls up Gerri and she obliges, by shaming and being a maternal(?) scold?  Or is it more dominatrix-y?

You knew the flirting was going to lead somewhere (he also half-mockingly called her mommy), though Roman again brags about snorting snertaline off women who don't know they're prostitutes yet.

Shiv comes in as "observer" but isn't shy about offering her opinions, like cleaning up ATN or firing one of its personalities, a Hitler enthusiast.  But Logan has left her with a coloring book while he and Kendall try to court Rhea Jarrell for the Pierce acquisition.

The pitch doesn't go well with Rhea but surprise!   A shooter saves the day and forces the Roys into the safe room where they get to work more on Rhea while Tom and Greg are stuck in the shittier panic room, though Tom was running over women and would have run over children if they were in the Waystar offices to get to the tier 2 panic room.

Turns out an ATN producer shot himself because of the toxic, bullying atmosphere but even before they find that out, Rhea expresses concerns about the cultural differences between Waystar and Pierce.  Logan thinks it's bullshit, just a matter of raising his offer to buy off the owners of PIerce but he gives his word that he'll preserve the Pierce culture, which means of course he'll gut it and absorb it into the Borg.

Conor and Willa go to the funeral of Mo-Lester.  Turns out "it was a different time" and Logan kept his kids away from the pool when uncle "Mo" was around.  They run into the unofficial biographer so Willa writes up the greatest eulogy for Conor to read.

Back at the "B" panic room, Greg tells Tom that he wants to go to work in another dept., doesn't like the human furniture, Nazi stuff, shooters at ATN.  He proposes a "business open relationship."

Now did Greg trigger Tom deliberately or accidentally?  Was he trolling Tom about Tom's relationship with Shiv?  Of course water bottle attack after that.

So later Greg blackmails him about the Cruises division dirt and Tom promotes him with higher salary, better office, but Greg doesn't escape.  Because game respects game..

Shiv is suspicious about why Kendall is favored son, despite the hostile takeover attempt.  Kendall sobs, says it won't be him (the successor to Logan).  Then Kendall goes out again to a high ledge to stare down at the street hundreds of feet below.

[MizLottie]

Actually the first time we see Kendall on the roof, during the shooting, there's just a ledge which he could have easily jumped.  When we see him on the roof again at the end, the ledge is covered by a tall wall of glass panels.

During the hilarious breakup fight between Tom and Greg, I could have sworn Tom yelled "Quit cringing!" at the pretzel-munching co-worker, I had to rewind and found out it was "Quit crunching!". Actually, it would have totally been in character for Tom to have said cringing, lol!

[preeya]

10 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Not sure why, but this episode is already available on HBO On Demand. 

This is why:

From Futoncritic.com -

New Episodes of "Succession," "The Righteous Gemstones" and "Ballers" Available for Early Streaming This Friday, Aug. 30
The episodes will still debut at their originally scheduled times Sunday, September 1 on the main HBO channel.
Read more at http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news/2019/08/29/new-episodes-of-succession-the-righteous-gemstones-and-ballers-available-for-early-streaming-this-friday-aug-30-671112/20190829hbo01/#i8xPJC7L28sbicak.99

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I'm always torn on jokes like Mo Lester because it's funny but also terrible. I guess it's OK because they are making fun of the molester and not his victims. I'd like to know why he wanted to see Logan so much before he died.

Greg breaking down why the "safe" room wasn't so safe was hilarious. That window could fit a small person! An attack child!

Greg really triggered Tom by asking for an "open business relationship." I saw it as Tom taking out on Greg what he couldn't express with Shiv but in the after show, the creator(?) said it was like a dog asking to go live with the neighbor.  I did love how well Tom took the blackmail though. He seemed proud of Greg for blackmailing him. This show really screws with your personal morals. Here I am rooting for a character to blackmail another character.

Logan seemed very involved with Kendall while ignoring Shiv the whole episode. The first thing he asked during the alarm with the shooter was where is Kendall? He didn't ask about Shiv at all. I wonder if it's just because he needs Kendall right now or if he actually cares about his son.

So we finally know what turns Roman on--being berated. Can't Roman ask for that from his girlfriend? I'm surprised that Gerri didn't hang up after she figured out what was going on. She participated! I wonder what her angle is? Just to be in good standing with the family?

[northboundtrain]

Another great episode. Kendall is so broken -- the way the camera held on his face when revealing that the shot was from an employee who killed himself. Just brutal. And the way he told Shiv, "It's not going to be me." Kind of hammers home the point that Kendall's not doing any of this for power but because he feels he has no other choice. And we haven't even seen his rock bottom yet.

Did anyone else find it interesting that Gerri was all too happy to tell Shiv that Kendall's got a shoplifting problem? I wonder if that was about helping Kendall or helping Shiv? It was obviously done with some sort of ulterior motive.

Other stuff...the Connor/Willa subplot was a good way of keeping Connor involved in Waystar matters without actually having him at the company.

I liked Roman at the management program and would like (or would have liked?) to see more of it. And he's got a buddy! Of course, that's probably going nowhere good....

Speaking of Roman...

9 hours ago, scrb said:

Rome and Gerri, sitting  in a tree, kissin ...

WTH, he couldn't do phone sex with Tabitha so he calls up Gerri and she obliges, by shaming and being a maternal(?) scold?  Or is it more dominatrix-y?

You knew the flirting was going to lead somewhere (he also half-mockingly called her mommy), though Roman again brags about snorting snertaline off women who don't know they're prostitutes yet.

I loved the Roman part of this sequence (that he'd have trouble with Tabitha but be able to get off with Gerri telling him what a horrible person he is: that absolutely tracks), but I didn't really buy that Gerri would stay on the phone. I guess I hadn't been looking at her affection for him in...quite that way.

Quote

Back at the "B" panic room, Greg tells Tom that he wants to go to work in another dept., doesn't like the human furniture, Nazi stuff, shooters at ATN.  He proposes a "business open relationship."

Now did Greg trigger Tom deliberately or accidentally?  Was he trolling Tom about Tom's relationship with Shiv?  Of course water bottle attack after that.

So later Greg blackmails him about the Cruises division dirt and Tom promotes him with higher salary, better office, but Greg doesn't escape.  Because game respects game..

I laughed hysterically at Greg's skepticism about the "safe room," especially his suggestion that since Tom's the primary target he should get his own room. That whole subplot was just brilliant.

I can't believe that I didn't remember until your post that Greg knows about Shiv cheating on Tom. That adds a whole other level to the water bottle fight.

I did wonder, though, why Tom didn't respond to Greg's Cruises threat with a reminder that he knows Greg spoke to the biographer. I don't expect Tom to use the information right now (though of course with the biographer continuing to snoop, it's only a matter of time before it comes out), but why not remind Greg that Greg's not the only one in this relationship with readily-employable dirt?

[northboundtrain]

5 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Logan seemed very involved with Kendall while ignoring Shiv the whole episode. The first thing he asked during the alarm with the shooter was where is Kendall? He didn't ask about Shiv at all. I wonder if it's just because he needs Kendall right now or if he actually cares about his son.

I absolutely think he was driven not by real concern for Kendall but concern about his lack of control over the situation.

I hadn't thought much about this, actually, but while the show's done a good job of showing that Kendall/Shiv/Roman do love their father and even have at least some small measure of care/concern for each other...I've never seen real evidence from the show that Logan looks at any of them as anything other than property/tools. Even on the rare occasions when he's shown "concern" for their well-being (as in with Kendall at the end of the S1 finale), it's really been about consolidating his power.

[scrb]

Kendall really needs professional therapist, after going back to using drugs, getting the kid killed, then shoplifting, which is apparently a habit.

But Logan pulls him out of Iceland and puts him to work, now with this acquisition.  Instead of getting him help, Logan has his people cover up after him.

Even if Kendall wanted to get help, Logan is preventing him.

I still think he’s going to rally, be aggressive again at some point in the second half of the season.

The halting way he speaks to Rhea, you’d think she wouldn’t take him seriously as a senior executive and potential CEO because senior corporate execs are polished, coached up and practiced in being smooth talkers.

But looks like one of the things the Pierce owners would want to know is who would succeed Logan, to get an idea of what would happen to the Pierce properties after Logan passes.  However, Logan isn’t going to keep that promise of giving them autonomy anyways.  So they will have to cozy up to the successor.

Looks like Shiv and Rhea are simpatico, not to mention Shiv — along with Greg — really isn’t down with the ATN brand.

[BlackberryJam]

I thought Gerri was just so shocked at what was happening that she kind of froze for a minute, then enjoyed the thrill of a woman her age being sexually attractive to a younger man. And enjoyed the power.

Kendall is Logan’s favorite right now because he has absolute control over Kendall. Ken is completely trustworthy and he’s the one who has been trained in the business. Ken is the one who revealed everyone’s thoughts on Pierce last episode. Ken can keep nothing back, has to be honest with Logan and has to do as he’s told. 

Shiv saw how broken Kendall is and I bet when she talks it over with Tom, he will convince her it’s some kind of ploy.

I love the fact that so many of the women execs wear pants but still look feminine. They aren’t wearing pants to compete with men. They are wearing pants because pants are comfortable.

Willa’s speech for Connor was fabulous and the biographer was pissed. 

[rue721]

12 hours ago, scrb said:

though Tom was running over women and would have run over children if they were in the Waystar offices to get to the tier 2 panic room.

Hahaha story of his life!

[rue721]

12 hours ago, scrb said:

Logan thinks it's bullshit, just a matter of raising his offer to buy off the owners of PIerce but he gives his word that he'll preserve the Pierce culture, which means of course he'll gut it and absorb it into the Borg.

Yeah, you'd think that how things went down with Vaulter would make it clear that Logan would be preserving absolutely none of the culture and there's no way anybody can trust him to not chew up and spit out whatever he can get his hands on.

On the other hand, it seemed like the main concern was ultimately money. Shiv kept going on about random bullshit contracts or whatever but what the Pierce family apparently needs is a big enough check and plausible deniability ("he said we could trust him!"). Or from Rhea's perspective, that's the crux of the matter, anyway.

2 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Logan seemed very involved with Kendall while ignoring Shiv the whole episode. The first thing he asked during the alarm with the shooter was where is Kendall? He didn't ask about Shiv at all. I wonder if it's just because he needs Kendall right now or if he actually cares about his son.

I think maybe it's both. He needs Kendall in the same way that he'd need a cane or a crutch or a prosthetic limb -- he's using Kendall as a tool, because his health/age won't allow him to run it unaided anymore. And Kendall has proven himself a good proxy. At the end of the day, Kendall actually does know what he's doing when it comes to the business (thank god).

I think Logan is worried about Kendall because he can see that Kendell is very fragile. Does he not want him to break down because he needs him or because he loves him? I think he "loves" him because he needs him (and I think Logan assumes that Kendall "loves" him because he needs him, too) -- so it's kind of irrelevant.

Logan would be lost without Kendall (to act as his proxy), and Kendall would be lost without Logan (to animate him), so they're getting along great. But that's not really love per se? Or healthy at all.

I mean, I think there is also genuine father/son love between them but Logan really doesn't know how to show it because he's such a control freak, and Kendall doesn't know how to show it because he's so guarded and lost inside himself. Also, I think whenever Kendall has either shown it openly or made the mistake of counting on Logan's love for him, Logan has pulled the rug out from under him (that happened quite a few times in S1), so he's very tentative about it now.

Anyhow, it broke my heart when Kendall asked for a hug from Shiv, and asked her to take care of him. He seems so lonely. I'm not 100% sure how Shiv took it, though. When he started crying, she realized that he wasn't playing with her, but I think she also realized that he's even more unstable than she thought and things at the company and with Logan are even more bizarre and complex than she'd realized, so I think there was also a part of her that was thinking, "this is an opportunity for me. I can do something with this..."

2 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

So we finally know what turns Roman on--being berated. Can't Roman ask for that from his girlfriend? I'm surprised that Gerri didn't hang up after she figured out what was going on. She participated! I wonder what her angle is? Just to be in good standing with the family?

I think it was more than being berated, I think it was the whole power dynamic. Gerri wasn't saying those things to please Roman, she was saying what she actually thought (at least initially). And she's the one with the power in their dynamic, she's the one guiding him and correcting him. I think Roman likes feeling powerless, at least when he trusts the person who's in charge -- and at this point, he trusts Gerri.

I think she participated because she thought it was shocking/funny, she likes power in general and this was a surprisingly fun way of flexing it, and because she likes him enough as a person that she wasn't revolted. I don't think she's attracted to him sexually (she wasn't getting off sexually on him getting off in that scene, anyway) but they have enough trust/honesty/intimacy that it was a fun time.

2 hours ago, northboundtrain said:

Did anyone else find it interesting that Gerri was all too happy to tell Shiv that Kendall's got a shoplifting problem? I wonder if that was about helping Kendall or helping Shiv? It was obviously done with some sort of ulterior motive.

I think that Gerri is throwing her support behind Shiv's "claim to the throne." The two of them seem to talk a lot, they were also talking about strategy before the corporate retreat. Also, I think Gerri : Shiv :: Frank : Kendall.

I don't think Gerri cares much about Kendall as a person. It doesn't seem like there's bad blood there, but they don't seem close. They seem more like colleagues than friends.

2 hours ago, scrb said:

Even if Kendall wanted to get help, Logan is preventing him.

Yeah, and I think that's a control thing. Logan wants to control Kendall, he doesn't want him falling into someone else's hands. It seems to have really isolated Kendall.

[CouchTater]

Did anyone else's heart break with that extended hug between Shiv and Kendall, specifically when she realized he was crying?  I think there was a real moment of tenderness from Shiv to Kendall, minus all the succession bullshit.  At least, I hope so.  It literally brought tears to my eyes, folks.  I don't typically cry about fictional people! 😥

Re:  Gerri and Roman.  Is it possible that she was getting off on their phone call, too?  Not literally (that we saw anyway), but she seemed into it.  Maybe that was her only motivation.  They've definitely been flirty before.

I loved Willa's simple little eulogy that Conner read beautifully.  There might be a politician lurking in there. He even kind of looked the part.  And don't sleep on Willa.  I'd love to see her steer Conner to the White House.  That would be hilarious.

Ok, Mo and the fact that Logan wouldn't allow his kids to be in the pool with him (but seemed to have some real affection for him).  And then Willa leaves the conversation with Logan's "Wolf Pack" looking disturbed and maybe disgusted.  What's that all about?  And could it have anything to do with the lashes we saw on Logan's back in season 1?  I'm just spit-balling here, probably thinking about this wonderful show too much. 🙂

Anyhoo, I loved this episode.  This season is on fire.

[Eyes High]

I don’t know if Gerri enjoyed that phone call in a sexual sense, but she definitely enjoyed it. She more or less dared Roman to masturbate while keeping her on the phone and seemed very pleased, even admiring, rather than appalled when he took her up on it. At least now we definitively know what Roman’s deal is (a humiliation kink), although in retrospect there were signs (Connor saying that Roman liked being put in the dog cage when they were kids). And “slime puppy” in addition to being a fantastic insult is a great summation of Roman’s character in general.

Matthew Macfadyen is such a great actor that I actually felt bad for human furniture-using Tom as his eyes welled up with tears before he started pelting Greg with water bottles. And he was legitimately terrifying when he screamed “GOOD?! WE ARE NOT FUCKING GOOD GREG!”

[BlackberryJam]

This show is just great. Complicated, layered characters with multiple interesting motivations. No pure white hats or black hats. There are reasons to back every character and reasons to loath every character. 

[The Solution]

This episode was really the right balance of humor and seriousness.

The phone sex scene between Gerri and Roman may have been my favorite television scene ever.

[preeya]

Mo-Lester best line of the episode

[RealReality]

On 8/30/2019 at 7:52 PM, cardigirl said:

Not sure why, but this episode is already available on HBO On Demand. 

Except for Shiv’s duck-facing all the way through the episode, I really liked it. Really, does that actress have no other facial expression? 

It fired on all cylinders for me. Funny, with just a smidge of pathos. 

Because HBO loves me?  

Yes, I thought it was a great episode.  

I was surprised roman agreed to the training, he must be more motivated than i gave him credit for.  The fact that he got into that nasty ass costume....yikes!

  Realistically, I don't think he can catch up to Kendall or shiv but he can be world's ahead of connor and I think he can earn some acknowledgement from Logan if he sticks to it.  

I also think that he can maybe become gerris proxy in that if he is taken seriously Gerri can have roman present her ideas and not risk the blowback.  Her own human shield. 

That "culture of bullying" is going to bite tom square in the ass.  Was it human footstool who killed himself?  If so....oh boy.  Either way, two people saw tom pelting Greg with water bottles and one of them is going to say something....or the security guard (nice to see that guy from OITNB getting work).

I was dying during Greg's freak out .."an attack child!". "is that door sealed?"  

I wanted to give Kendall a hug too.  Gosh guy, just turn yourself in or something.  It can't be worth living with the guilt.  

[RealReality]

18 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Willa’s speech for Connor was fabulous and the biographer was pissed. 

I didn't think Willa's speech was that great..."when someone dies we're sad?" 

If this guy and his friends were up to child molesting Connor is going to get roasted for just being there and giving the eulogy.  And he sure as hell wasn't getting any donor money from that super impersonal two minute eulogy.  

I think he would have been better off faking a stomach flu and leaving.  Literally, anybody else who kinda knew him could have written something in 10 minutes.  

20 hours ago, scrb said:

Looks like Shiv and Rhea are simpatico, not to mention Shiv — along with Greg — really isn’t down with the ATN brand.

Logan's promise to make shiv his successor could just be about having a woman who worked with the not Bernie Sanders campaign and has a more aligned political view. 

I don't think they trotted shiv out for Rhea because Rhea isn't the decision maker.  The decision maker is someone who hates ATN so much she would potentially turn down 22+ billion dollars over an anchor she hates.  So I think shiv is potentially the face they use to convince the board of all the BS promises Logan is making. 

They are more likely to believe that there will be editorial independence at PGM if shiv is the person who will take over waystar.

But once the sale goes through I think shiv should be worried.  Kendall is almost the perfect person who take over waystar, from Logan's perspective.  Kendall is smart enough to run the operation, but enough of a puppet that he will do Logan's bidding even if Logan is "retired"

logan can retain control of waystar through proxy Kendall as his health and cognitive function decline.  It's really a sweetheart deal for Logan.

Edited September 1, 2019 by RealReality

[RealReality]

20 hours ago, northboundtrain said:

Another great episode. Kendall is so broken -- the way the camera held on his face when revealing that the shot was from an employee who killed himself. Just brutal. And the way he told Shiv, "It's not going to be me." Kind of hammers home the point that Kendall's not doing any of this for power but because he feels he has no other choice. And we haven't even seen his rock bottom yet.

Did anyone else find it interesting that Gerri was all too happy to tell Shiv that Kendall's got a shoplifting problem? I wonder if that was about helping Kendall or helping Shiv? It was obviously done with some sort of ulterior motive.

I did wonder, though, why Tom didn't respond to Greg's Cruises threat with a reminder that he knows Greg spoke to the biographer. I don't expect Tom to use the information right now (though of course with the biographer continuing to snoop, it's only a matter of time before it comes out), but why not remind Greg that Greg's not the only one in this relationship with readily-employable dirt?

Logan thinks the Scooby Doo mystery of who talked to the biographer has been solved.  And I think it's possible multiple people have spoken to her....maybe tom? So he may not want to even threaten that.  

I also think Tom has much farther to fall than Greg.  If Greg is smart he knows this.  The worst thing Greg loses is his job, tom possibly goes to jail.  

Gerri plays all sides if she can.  Developing a sense of trust with shiv by telling her something relatively innocuous was potentially a lot of reward with relatively little risk.  

[RealReality]

Also....

a) I wonder if the PGM owners basically sent Rhea to trick Logan into firing the Nazi facist?  

b) I don't think Tom was happy about Greg at all.  He put on the same over the top expression he does when he is fucking with Greg or about to fuck with Greg.  I'm scared for cousin Greg!  Don't send the attack child after him!

[cardigirl]

18 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Willa’s speech for Connor was fabulous and the biographer was pissed. 

28 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I didn't think Willa's speech was that great..."when someone dies we're sad?" 

If this guy and his friends were up to child molesting Connor is going to get roasted for just being there and giving the eulogy.  And he sure as hell wasn't getting any donor money from that super impersonal two minute eulogy.  

I think he would have been better off faking a stomach flu and leaving.  Literally, anybody else who kinda knew him could have written something in 10 minutes.  

Willa’s eulogy WAS great because she grasped the dangerousness of the situation Connor was in, and wrote something plain, that no one could twist or argue with, and that gave no details. Connor had no clue and was about to ‘step in it’ big time. 

Roman and Gerri continue to be an interesting relationship. I don’t think she was turned on in any way, I just think she was giving him something he needed, yet again. I could be wrong, I guess we’ll see where the season takes us.  But I like those two. I like Roman, for some reason, and I hope he keeps his friend from management training. 

Tom and Greg. Wow! As soon as Greg said open relationship, I knew poor Tom was gonna melt down. But love them as well and fear for Greg mightily.

I read that a number of the writers for this show also worked on Veep. I can tell. 

[RealReality]

Just now, cardigirl said:

Willa’s eulogy WAS great because she grasped the dangerousness of the situation Connor was in, and wrote something plain, that no one could twist or argue with, and that gave no details. Connor had no clue and was about to ‘step in it’ big time. 

The issues that she thinks she avoided with the eulogy are the same ones he will have merely by being there and giving the eulogy in the first place.  

And for the risk he took by merely doing any eulogy he gets no reward because none of mo's friends are handing him money after that nonsense eulogy.  

To anyone who wasn't a biographer it made Connor look like he can't muster up the right words for a eulogy.  So either he looks weird and ineloquent or he looks like a guy who eulogized a child molester. 

He has stepped in it either way.  

He would have been better off faking a stomach flu.  

[BlackberryJam]

30 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Willa’s eulogy WAS great because she grasped the dangerousness of the situation Connor was in, and wrote something plain, that no one could twist or argue with, and that gave no details. Connor had no clue and was about to ‘step in it’ big time. 

You said it better than I did.

Connor was only there giving the speech because Logan couldn't. He has a definite out and saying he never wanted to give the eulogy in the first place but when faced with no one available and a grieving family, he stepped to the plate. Well at the same time he managed just say nothing at all positive about the deceased. There's not one thing that's quotable from that eulogy. That's politics. He also managed to please the Wolfpack, which is the men with money.

[cardigirl]

50 minutes ago, RealReality said:

The issues that she thinks she avoided with the eulogy are the same ones he will have merely by being there and giving the eulogy in the first place.  

And for the risk he took by merely doing any eulogy he gets no reward because none of mo's friends are handing him money after that nonsense eulogy.  

To anyone who wasn't a biographer it made Connor look like he can't muster up the right words for a eulogy.  So either he looks weird and ineloquent or he looks like a guy who eulogized a child molester. 

He has stepped in it either way.  

He would have been better off faking a stomach flu.  

He really wasn’t aware at all that it was a bad thing to be there. It ‘was a different time’ he kept repeating. Willa recognized the danger. Perhaps he could have faked a sudden onset of illness, but I think her eulogy of nonspecific statements was masterful enough to get him out of the with little damage. 

The biographer was hoping for some stuff about Moe-Lester’s relationship with the family  but all she got was that simple eulogy and Connor’s statement about his being interested in politics from a very early age. Connor was only upset about the biographer. 

I guess we’ll see what the season brings. 

[scrb]

I think Conor overestimated his fundraising capabilities, unless the people were eager to please the Roys or something.

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

You said it better than I did.

Connor was only there giving the speech because Logan couldn't. He has a definite out and saying he never wanted to give the eulogy in the first place but when faced with no one available and a grieving family, he stepped to the plate. Well at the same time he managed just say nothing at all positive about the deceased. There's not one thing that's quotable from that eulogy. That's politics. He also managed to please the Wolfpack, which is the men with money.

Did he please the wolf pack though?  If that was the eulogy my friend got I would be upset and uninterested in giving Connor a penny.  That eulogy was generic and ineloquent.  I can't see how it wins Connor anything, but I know I'd be using that footage either way if I were his opponent

Either as "hey, this guy is aligned with a child molester and was a close enough friend to give a eulogy though he had these other guys who knew him all his life in the same room who could have done it".

OR

"this is the eulogy this guy gives for a close personal friend? He sounds like a moron, is this guy eloquent enough for a position held by orators, politicians and actors? "

I won't get into our current officeholder except to say that the majority of presidents have at least been able to sound knowledgable and express some type of eloquence.  Even bush, for his lack or oratorical skills could still speak a little better than that...."sometimes people die.....and we're sad .....and his wife's name is Maria."

I think the show will make it come off as a deft and masterful move, but that doesn't ring true to me at all. If willa was that smart and Connor wouldn't leave SHE should have faked an attack of some sort.  She is...after all....an actress. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by RealReality

[MizLottie]

Now I'm wondering if the biographer will turn her sights towards Willa, pretty sure she caught Willa's look of concern and frantic rewrite of the eulogy.  Oh, I hope so!

Edited September 1, 2019 by MizLottie

[Lemons]

On 8/31/2019 at 10:30 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I'm always torn on jokes like Mo Lester because it's funny but also terrible. I guess it's OK because they are making fun of the molester and not his victims. I'd like to know why he wanted to see Logan so much before he died.

Greg breaking down why the "safe" room wasn't so safe was hilarious. That window could fit a small person! An attack child!

Greg really triggered Tom by asking for an "open business relationship." I saw it as Tom taking out on Greg what he couldn't express with Shiv but in the after show, the creator(?) said it was like a dog asking to go live with the neighbor.  I did love how well Tom took the blackmail though. He seemed proud of Greg for blackmailing him. This show really screws with your personal morals. Here I am rooting for a character to blackmail another character.

Logan seemed very involved with Kendall while ignoring Shiv the whole episode. The first thing he asked during the alarm with the shooter was where is Kendall? He didn't ask about Shiv at all. I wonder if it's just because he needs Kendall right now or if he actually cares about his son.

So we finally know what turns Roman on--being berated. Can't Roman ask for that from his girlfriend? I'm surprised that Gerri didn't hang up after she figured out what was going on. She participated! I wonder what her angle is? Just to be in good standing with the family?

I think Logan was looking for Kendall because he was afraid it was him with gun.  It looks they’re on to Kendall being mentally unhealthy and are trying to make sure he doesn’t kill himself. 

[TimWil]

10 hours ago, Lemons said:

I think Logan was looking for Kendall because he was afraid it was him with gun.  It looks they’re on to Kendall being mentally unhealthy and are trying to make sure he doesn’t kill himself. 

Yes, that was the significance of us first seeing the CCTV POV of Kendall walking up to the roof and then at the end of the episode Kendall returned to the roof and a high glass wall had already been installed.

Edited September 2, 2019 by TimWil

[tennisgurl]

Awww, that hug between Shiv and Kendall was actually a moment of real affection between Roy family members. She seemed to actually notice his dead eyes and his cries for help in between parroting whatever his dad says. Him tearing up when he told Shiv that "its not gonna be me" was so heartbreaking, especially as Shiv was clearly getting pissed that she saw Logan as already putting Kendall in front of her. Then him starring ledge, his expression when he found out that the employee killed himself, and then looking at the glass that was put up (I guess Logan found out that he was hanging around near the roof) just hit me in the gut.  

Of course Tom ends up in the second tier Panic Room, really thats just the story of his life. Greg really hit the wrong button when he mentioned an "open relationship" in business, you can tell how much his relationship issues aare eating at him. Of course then he ended up being weirdly proud of Greg for awkwardly blackmailing him. Babies first blackmail! Of course, even Tom is creeped out by the Nazi fan boy. "So... did you miss some Easter eggs the first time?"

Looks like we shouldn't count Willa out of the game, she has the mind of a politician, probably WAY more than Connor does. She was clearly working the room and figuring out the best way to handle things, and got a read on things in about five minutes. Her hastily read, hilariously non specific eulogy was pretty amazing. She caught on right away that this could blow up in their face, and wrote a eulogy that cant be twisted into supporting this guy in any way when the skeletons leave the closet.

Roman doing management went as well as can be anticipated, but at least he did actually come up with an idea, and he found a buddy, and he even wants to help him move up in the ranks! It probably wont end well, but its still pretty nice by Roman standards. Wow so Roman and Gerri take yet another turn, their relationship is so strange and fascinating. I think that Gerri was surprised by Roman jerking off with her on the phone, but she looked kind of into it by the end.

[scrb]

I wonder though if a realistic VR of WWII would match the brand of those cartoon characters at those old school amusement parks.

Maybe at a movie studio amusement park but not one primarily targeted for kids.

Brian doesn’t play hard, he plays easy.  Not sure we’ll see Brian again unless it’s as Roman’s toady.

[RealReality]

7 hours ago, TimWil said:

Yes, that was the significance of us first seeing the CCTV footage of Kendall walking up to the roof and then at the end of the episode Kendall returned to the roof and a high glass wall had already been installed.

Oh that's interesting and makes sense.  FFS, Logan can't just let him get a little therapy?  Psychiatrists aren't under an obligation to report past crimes.  I guess the biographer could find out but I think the risk is worth the reward.  Kendall's self destructive behavior has the potential to get riskier until he gets caught doing....something that came be covered up.  

[Dminches]

In the opening seen who was Kendall calling, Rea?  

Also, there must have been a decent amount of time between the first scene and the last since the glass was now installed.

[nilyank]

2 hours ago, Dminches said:

In the opening seen who was Kendall calling, Rea?  

After the Boar's Weekend, Kendall arranged for that meeting between her and Logan on his dad's behalf.

Poor Kendall. He is dying in pain and guilt.

[tomsmom]

15 hours ago, TimWil said:

Yes, that was the significance of us first seeing the CCTV POV of Kendall walking up to the roof and then at the end of the episode Kendall returned to the roof and a high glass wall had already been installed.

Ohhhh nice catch! 👏🏼 

Jeremy Strong just breaks my heart as Kendall! 

[sistermagpie]

On 9/1/2019 at 10:42 AM, RealReality said:

Did he please the wolf pack though?  If that was the eulogy my friend got I would be upset and uninterested in giving Connor a penny.  That eulogy was generic and ineloquent.  I can't see how it wins Connor anything, but I know I'd be using that footage either way if I were his opponent

Either as "hey, this guy is aligned with a child molester and was a close enough friend to give a eulogy though he had these other guys who knew him all his life in the same room who could have done it".

OR

"this is the eulogy this guy gives for a close personal friend? He sounds like a moron, is this guy eloquent enough for a position held by orators, politicians and actors? "

I won't get into our current officeholder except to say that the majority of presidents have at least been able to sound knowledgable and express some type of eloquence.  Even bush, for his lack or oratorical skills could still speak a little better than that...."sometimes people die.....and we're sad .....and his wife's name is Maria."

I think the show will make it come off as a deft and masterful move, but that doesn't ring true to me at all. If willa was that smart and Connor wouldn't leave SHE should have faked an attack of some sort.  She is...after all....an actress. 

But whether or not Connor gets donations from these people doesn't matter compared to not giving quotes to the biographer or not having anything on tape of him praising a sex offender. Really, it shouldn't matter at all because who would consider him a serious competitor for president anyway? And it's not like if he gave a touching speech about how great the guy was they would have been writing him checks.

This way it's a total non-story: a child of the guy who owned the company was the only person there to represent the family and gave a boring eulogy.

[RealReality]

32 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

But whether or not Connor gets donations from these people doesn't matter compared to not giving quotes to the biographer or not having anything on tape of him praising a sex offender. Really, it shouldn't matter at all because who would consider him a serious competitor for president anyway? And it's not like if he gave a touching speech about how great the guy was they would have been writing him checks.

This way it's a total non-story: a child of the guy who owned the company was the only person there to represent the family and gave a boring eulogy.

We have a current POTUS, who, no matter if you love him or hate him....no one saw as a serious contender and he kinda talked a lot of mess.  I feel like that's where they are going with Connor. 

However, your point is well taken in that whether or not Connor is POTUS the quotes would absolutely hurt the entire Roy family and waystar and it wouldn't have just been "hey this candidate likes a cho-mo!"

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, RealReality said:

We have a current POTUS, who, no matter if you love him or hate him....no one saw as a serious contender and he kinda talked a lot of mess.  I feel like that's where they are going with Connor. 

I was wondering about this too, but it seems like Connor is in many ways the opposite of Trump. Trump seemed to have no actual agenda as a politician besides promoting himself, but he has a genius for saying whatever the person in front of him wants in the moment, and a specific genius for playing to that base who already existed in the Republican Party. He was a TV star already familiar to people. He attracts people as the biggest bully in the room and throws them under a bus whenever he wants. He's got years of practice with self-promotion.

Connor is running because he has specific beliefs he thinks are right. He doesn't speak the language of any significant base--he's a would-be Napoleonic War podcaster who drops obscure references to WWI battles and calls masturbation "onanism." Where Trump's a millionaire who goes to McDonalds and claims to be self-made (with media stories to make people believe it), Connor's a millionaire who hyper-decants his brandy (omg, don't YOU?) and can't even pretend to have done or made anything himself.

So he seems more like that guy who was running for a while--I forget who it even was now, but he was a billionaire who seemed like he would have a platform more like Connor's. Granted, the show doesn't take place in our universe so Connor might be received differently than he was. Howard Schultz! That's who it was.

[CouchTater]

8 hours ago, RealReality said:

We have a current POTUS, who, no matter if you love him or hate him....no one saw as a serious contender and he kinda talked a lot of mess.  I feel like that's where they are going with Connor. 

I really hope the show doesn't go this way, because it seems like the predictable end to that plot.  It'd be a little too on-the-nose for me.

[preeya]

13 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

So he seems more like that guy who was running for a while--I forget who it even was now, but he was a billionaire who seemed like he would have a platform more like Connor's. Granted, the show doesn't take place in our universe so Connor might be received differently than he was. Howard Schultz! That's who it was.

Ross Perot?

[sistermagpie]

13 minutes ago, preeya said:

Ross Perot?

I don't think he even rises to the level of Perot. It was Howard Schultz. I mostly remember him for when he was doing something at Barnes & Noble or something and someone heckled him about helping Trump win. I don't know if he officially dropped out or just faded away.

[Bulldog]

So, the numerous shots/references to Kendall controlling Logan's medications has to have some deeper meaning, right?  Foreshadowing a possible poisoning plot, perhaps?

[BlackberryJam]

Or in desperation, Kendall takes the meds.

[CouchTater]

8 hours ago, Bulldog said:

So, the numerous shots/references to Kendall controlling Logan's medications has to have some deeper meaning, right?  Foreshadowing a possible poisoning plot, perhaps?

I could see Shiv poisoning Logan, once he's done with whatever rottenness he has planned for her.  She was really interested in the fact that Kendall was managing Logan's meds.

[rue721]

9 hours ago, Bulldog said:

So, the numerous shots/references to Kendall controlling Logan's medications has to have some deeper meaning, right?  Foreshadowing a possible poisoning plot, perhaps?

Bizarre to ask a drug addict to control your medications 🤷🏻‍♀️. 

I think the idea is that Kendall is just Logan’s lackey. Whatever Logan needs doing, Kendall does. His whole life is just doing what Dad tells him to do, whether that’s prepping pills or starting negotiations with Pierce.

[smartymarty]

On 9/2/2019 at 1:52 AM, tennisgurl said:

Her hastily read, hilariously non specific eulogy was pretty amazing. She caught on right away that this could blow up in their face, and wrote a eulogy that cant be twisted into supporting this guy in any way when the skeletons leave the closet.

Actually, I thought she was giving Connor notes rather than a script. Like "talk about how death [of anyone] makes us sad." Give condolences to the widow, "Maria." And Connor didn't understand that and/or can't talk off the cuff. Was there a shot of Willa during the eulogy? If she looked content, them I'm wrong. But it was a horrible eulogy that everyone in the room must have been cringing at.

 

On 9/2/2019 at 2:51 AM, scrb said:

I wonder though if a realistic VR of WWII would match the brand of those cartoon characters at those old school amusement parks.

That their idea won was because the class realized that a Roy pitched it, so everyone like that one! (Shades of everyone afraid to tell Logan that they thought the PGM acquisition idea was bad. All scared of the Roys.) It was a horrible idea for that type of amusement park.
 

On 8/31/2019 at 12:39 PM, BlackberryJam said:

I thought Gerri was just so shocked at what was happening that she kind of froze for a minute, then enjoyed the thrill of a woman her age being sexually attractive to a younger man. And enjoyed the power.

Right. You don't continue on that call if you're disgusted. (Yes, this contradicts my statement, above, that everyone is afraid to piss off the Roys. Somehow this seemed different.)

 

[sistermagpie]

23 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Actually, I thought she was giving Connor notes rather than a script. Like "talk about how death [of anyone] makes us sad." Give condolences to the widow, "Maria." And Connor didn't understand that and/or can't talk off the cuff. Was there a shot of Willa during the eulogy? If she looked content, them I'm wrong. But it was a horrible eulogy that everyone in the room must have been cringing at.

She was very pleased--and before she gave it to him she said "Let her (meaning the biographer) try to get something out of this" or something to that effect. I think she may even have looked over at the biographer with satisfaction during it. That was what she wrote. She never would have trusted Connor with notes about how death makes us sad or just giving condolences. He would have gone on some weird tangent. He read what she wrote.

It was the first thing that made me wonder what kind of a playwright she is--like if she's an interesting writer.

23 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Right. You don't continue on that call if you're disgusted. (Yes, this contradicts my statement, above, that everyone is afraid to piss off the Roys. Somehow this seemed different.)

 

Gerri has a good sense of her place in the hierarchy and what she'd be able to say or not say--in this case even without the kink she wouldn't have been stepping over any lines by talking to him like that. Even the kids jokingly insult the father occasionally. It makes everything much tenser that people are almost expected to be rude to each other because then when they say something bad it's unexpected and they can't always predict it. But in this case, Roman's not Logan and Gerri is Gerri. The younger Roys don't command respect everywhere.

[luckylou]

The eulogy was non controversial, true, but inane.  Hard to believe a gifted playwright could not have produced something non-committal yet acceptabl e.  Conner appears to all at the funeral to be an idiot.Maybe this was also meant as a commentary on Willa.  

I wonder about Kendall’s shoplifting...maybe just a way of asserting himself.  We have three different shots of Kendall standing near the glass wall, and in each view the wall is different.  First shot:  as he tries to call the woman at Pierce...the wall seems a normal three or four feet; second shot, as he steps up and appears to contemplating jumping, the wall seems easily broached; at the end, apparently on a lower floor, the wall is ten feet high...a protective barrier.  Presumably to reflect his changing view of his prospects at Waystar, maybe related to Shiv’s appearance?

I disagree with those who thought Shiv’s efforts to win over Holly Hunter’s character were useless.  I think her presence may have been somewhat reassuring to Holly Hunter and goaded Logan into guaranteeing whatever it was he actually was promising to the Pierces.

Am I the only one who thinks Tom’s using a human footstool and throwing water bottles is a step too far?  Greg’s cowardly freak out ... OK... but he also noticed all the deficiencies in that “safe room” that Tom failed to see.

[sistermagpie]

53 minutes ago, luckylou said:

The eulogy was non controversial, true, but inane.  Hard to believe a gifted playwright could not have produced something non-committal yet acceptabl e.  Conner appears to all at the funeral to be an idiot.Maybe this was also meant as a commentary on Willa.  

I think that's what she was going for. The point was only to keep him from actually saying anything. She didn't care whether or not it was moving or a good eulogy. I don't think anybody thought he was so much of an idiot from that speech (anybody who knew him probably already thought he was) because it's not like this was a big moment for him to shine and nobody thought he was that close to Mo anyway. It would be impossible to use it against him, because all you could say about it was that it was he said nothing at all, really.