S05.E11: Killer Queen

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Liv and Clive investigate the death of a drag queen, which leads Liv to eat and shift into the queen's brain; Ravi reaches out to Major with an interesting request.

Promo:

Original air date: 7/18/19

Edited July 14, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ketose]

The new leader of the zombie apocalypse is Enzo? That won't turn out well. At least he's an intellectual match for Derkins.

With two episodes left, I hope this is the last time Liv's brain of the week is the A plot.

Blaine is stone cold, man.

[Paloma]

Did they really just do an episode based primarily on stereotypes of gay men? Yes, I know this was a drag club and not representing all gay men, but all of the male characters associated with the club (not just the performers) behaved like the stereotype of an effeminate or "flaming" gay man. Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way, but it seemed offensive.

[Affogato]

3 minutes ago, Paloma said:

Did they really just do an episode based primarily on stereotypes of gay men? Yes, I know this was a drag club and not representing all gay men, but all of the male characters associated with the club (not just the performers) behaved like the stereotype of an effeminate or "flaming" gay man. Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way, but it seemed offensive.

It is not the first time a Rob Thomas show has seemed .... tone deaf.... I’d say, to the current zeitgeist. I wouldn’t say offensive, but I’m not a member of that group and it is probably for them to say whether it is or not. 

[thuganomics85]

The victim's business partner mentioning that they both wear the same dress size was done in a way that I knew it was going to be a huge part with the case, but I wasn't sure if he was the killer at first, or if he was actually going to end up being the intended target.  Either way, not the best case since a lot of the jokes and character felt dated.  Liv did look good in a lot of the outfits though.

So, Martin's grand plan is to sneak out a bunch of zombie women into a Nevada brothel, have them sleep with a bunch of guys since they're some kind of convention going on, and then have them infect others with the zombie virus and have it spread all around the States (maybe even the world?)  Not the most convoluted plan ever, but I'm not sure why they don't just start scratching anyone they can get a hold of, unless everyone is on guard about that.  But it looked like Martin was almost getting ready to walk it back, only for Enzo to kill him in front of Liv.  I guess I feel bad for Liv and, again, Rose McIver and Bill Wise certainly did what they could to sell the relationship, but they just introduced him so late in the game that I struggle to be that emotional over it.

Blaine totally killed Darcy, right?  Poor Don E.  At this point, I suspect Blaine's eventual downfall won't be from any of the "heroes", but from everyone he has backstabbed, pissed off, and betrayed in his little game to be a criminal overlord.  He has burnt so many bridges.

It was fun seeing Ravi and Major get to team-up again.  Those two are always fun together.

I do hope the final two episodes finish strong.

[AnimeMania]

I actually enjoyed the character that Liv became in this episode and kind of wish the show stayed like the first season where Liv portrays different personalities and only solves crimes rather than starting all the widespread zombie, Filmore-Graves nonsense.

[AudienceofOne]

7 hours ago, Paloma said:

Did they really just do an episode based primarily on stereotypes of gay men? Yes, I know this was a drag club and not representing all gay men, but all of the male characters associated with the club (not just the performers) behaved like the stereotype of an effeminate or "flaming" gay man. Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way, but it seemed offensive.

The minute Liv ate the brain, the show immediately got my back up but as it went on I started to feel it was less offensive and more of a Priscilla Queen of the Desert homage. I even got a Hugo Weaving vibe off the murderer.

6 hours ago, Affogato said:

It is not the first time a Rob Thomas show has seemed .... tone deaf.... I’d say, to the current zeitgeist. I wouldn’t say offensive, but I’m not a member of that group and it is probably for them to say whether it is or not. 

Agreed, I'm not a part of the community so it's not my place to say whether it was offensive or not. 

On another note:

Fuck Blaine.

Seriously. I hope he gets murdered slowly.

[ketose]

On the verge of the re-animation of "Veronica Mars," I can only hope that iZombie actually ends. It's cool that Liv can eat brains and get clues, but there was virtually no reason for her to do it this time. Remember when Liv needed to eat brains and then had to disguise her visions as psychic in front of Clive?

I don't want this show to end with anything other than a zombie cure for everyone. There may be some benefits to the zombie virus, (revealing the thoughts of the dead, preventing death from illness) there is nothing to show that a large enough population won't end up with unintended human deaths.

[Paloma]

3 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

10 hours ago, Affogato said:

It is not the first time a Rob Thomas show has seemed .... tone deaf.... I’d say, to the current zeitgeist. I wouldn’t say offensive, but I’m not a member of that group and it is probably for them to say whether it is or not. 

Agreed, I'm not a part of the community so it's not my place to say whether it was offensive or not. 

That was my initial response (I'm not a member of the group so it's not for me to say if it is offensive), but I don't think you have to be a member of a group that is stereotyped in a negative way and/or is a target of hateful words and actions in order to recognize and speak up about such stereotypes, words, and actions. More and more I have come to believe that those of us who are not members of such groups need to use our privilege to become allies of those groups and speak up when we hear and see offensive behaviors and words. Bringing this rant back to the specifics of this episode, the drag queen plot may have seemed like fun to most people, but in the real world transgender people are often the targets of violence. I understand that the characters in this episode are not transgender, but ignorant and hateful people often do not understand or care about the difference between men who dress like women (whether for entertainment or for personal pleasure) and men who transition to women. I'm not saying you can't ever make a fictional show about drag queens (or about cross-dressers or transgender people), but there needs to be some thought about how they are depicted--preferably in a way that is more than just the stereotypes. 

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

It was fun seeing Ravi and Major get to team-up again.  Those two are always fun together.

They are a delight.

[Ray Adverb]

14 hours ago, Paloma said:

Did they really just do an episode based primarily on stereotypes of gay men? Yes, I know this was a drag club and not representing all gay men, but all of the male characters associated with the club (not just the performers) behaved like the stereotype of an effeminate or "flaming" gay man. Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way, but it seemed offensive.

Were these guys actually gay?  Was that stated?  There are straight men who are kind of effeminate.  I think it's just that drag attracts those kinds of people, and it's not tied to sexual orientation.

[Ray Adverb]

The Las Vegas airport has an infrared scanner that screens out zombies?  Okay sounds like a good idea.  But how does a single senator have the power to shut that down?

It's strange that the zombie women posing as prostitutes need to eat the brains of the human prostitutes they killed.  What's the point?  So that they become better at sex?  Or just so that they don't feel ashamed of sleeping with strange men for money?  I would think that their devotion to the cause would have taken care of that.  And who cares how good they are at sex?  I don't think the brothel's clientele is going to care.

[LoneHaranguer]

3 hours ago, Paloma said:

I'm not saying you can't ever make a fictional show about drag queens (or about cross-dressers or transgender people), but there needs to be some thought about how they are depicted--preferably in a way that is more than just the stereotypes. 

TV shows use stereotypes to tell you about characters without having to have clunky dialog, and no group is excepted from this. With all of the brains Liv has gone through over the seasons, it has never been suggested that the characters in the group(s) of the week are representative. About all you can expect is for them to avoid negative stereotypes, and they've been doing that,

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Ray Adverb said:

  And who cares how good they are at sex?  I don't think the brothel's clientele is going to care.

Some people take pride in their work. 

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, Paloma said:

That was my initial response (I'm not a member of the group so it's not for me to say if it is offensive), but I don't think you have to be a member of a group that is stereotyped in a negative way and/or is a target of hateful words and actions in order to recognize and speak up about such stereotypes, words, and actions. More and more I have come to believe that those of us who are not members of such groups need to use our privilege to become allies of those groups and speak up when we hear and see offensive behaviors and words. Bringing this rant back to the specifics of this episode, the drag queen plot may have seemed like fun to most people, but in the real world transgender people are often the targets of violence. I understand that the characters in this episode are not transgender, but ignorant and hateful people often do not understand or care about the difference between men who dress like women (whether for entertainment or for personal pleasure) and men who transition to women. I'm not saying you can't ever make a fictional show about drag queens (or about cross-dressers or transgender people), but there needs to be some thought about how they are depicted--preferably in a way that is more than just the stereotypes. 

 Izombie is hugely about stereotypes of all sorts, though. And they have a position that humorous use of stereotypes helps people be accepted, as seen in the show HiZombie. I lived in Canada a while ago and I believe it is a more Canadian attitude than uS, but it seems consistent with the message of the show as a whole. 

[possibilities]

I figure they ate the brains because that's what zombies do. They have access to brains, of course they'll eat them. Why would they NOT eat them?

[AnimeMania]

One think that I thought was kind of funny was that "Bitchcraft" claimed not to care about drag queen icons, but when Liv was was describing the the different Cher phases (she even had pictures and been studying), "Bitchcraft" was still better at it and going from memory.

At least one of the drag queens was gay, if you can rely on the testimony of his ex-husband.

[Regalbegal]

14 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Blaine totally killed Darcy, right?  Poor Don E.  At this point, I suspect Blaine's eventual downfall won't be from any of the "heroes", but from everyone he has backstabbed, pissed off, and betrayed in his little game to be a criminal overlord.  He has burnt so many bridges.

I am convinced the whole purpose of Darcy as a character was to bring home how rotten Blaine is (i.e.,  he is not a lovable scoundrel, no matter how charming David Anders is) before whatever end (hopefully painful) they have planned for him.  Although he has done awful things throughout the show, having him off a character the writers spent the last few episodes building up as part of this sweet(-ish, but still a little creepy) love story with Don E, right before her wedding WHILE SHE IS WEARING HER WEDDING DRESS,  really puts an exclamation point on it, so to speak.  

I still don't understand what the purpose of Martin was.  Truly.   But why oh why is Enzo still kicking around? 

I am cautiously optimistic about TPTB providing a good wrap up these next couple weeks.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

15 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, Martin's grand plan is to sneak out a bunch of zombie women into a Nevada brothel, have them sleep with a bunch of guys since they're some kind of convention going on, and then have them infect others with the zombie virus and have it spread all around the States (maybe even the world?)  Not the most convoluted plan ever, but I'm not sure why they don't just start scratching anyone they can get a hold of, unless everyone is on guard about that. 

Fanwanking:

By scratching people, Team Z would be putting people on alert and risking getting caught. They also would not have a way to track the new zombies as the contact with them would be short.

By posing as prostitutes, they would not ring any alarm bells. (It's unclear if the public at large knows that the zombie virus gets transmitted through sex and condoms are useless.) They would also be able to get background information about those turned, so Team Z could explain the situation and give marching orders later. And it would be harder for the transmission to be traced back to Team Z.

4 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

The Las Vegas airport has an infrared scanner that screens out zombies?  Okay sounds like a good idea.  But how does a single senator have the power to shut that down?

It's strange that the zombie women posing as prostitutes need to eat the brains of the human prostitutes they killed.  What's the point?  So that they become better at sex?  Or just so that they don't feel ashamed of sleeping with strange men for money?  I would think that their devotion to the cause would have taken care of that.  And who cares how good they are at sex?  I don't think the brothel's clientele is going to care.

It doesn't seem surprising that a senator could have the clout to have the infrared scanner off-line, either by directly telling someone at Las Vegas TSA not to have it on, or by knowing/bribing people who can get it done.

That's especially true if the scanner was just being implemented. Delaying implementation seems easier than arranging for it to be off-line when it is normally on.

The zombies were eating brains presumably because that is what zombies do as opposed to some attempt to be better prostitutes.

[AudienceofOne]

16 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It doesn't seem surprising that a senator could have the clout to have the infrared scanner off-line, either by directly telling someone at Las Vegas TSA not to have it on, or by knowing/bribing people who can get it done.

They said something about ordering a diagnostic be run or something similar. Something that would require the system to be off while it's undertaken. So it would be legal and something a senator could do.

[aradia22]

Bad case of the week. I immediately thought it was the partner but then I thought no. It couldn't be the only person in the opening scene (possibly the last person to see the victim alive), one of the two people to find the body, and the guy who gave them motive when he was questioned. And then it was. Boo...

It was kind of fun to see Tristan from Degrassi. That's a show I'm sad is never coming back. It was hilarious... mostly for the wrong reasons.

Liv on drag queen brain was a little lame. With the way drag makeup has influenced contemporary makeup trends, you've got to do a lot more to make a woman look like a bioqueen. They needed to pump up the color. A lot of TV actresses wear fake lashes so at best she just looked like she was on a primetime soap wearing slightly exaggerated lashes. 

Rescuing the kids was too easy but I'm also glad it wasn't a stressful angst-fest. I can buy that Blaine wasn't concerned enough to have too much security. 

Wait, so Blaine didn't kill Darcy? She just died naturally? I thought he would get revenge on Don E. At least kill him while he was kneeling besides Darcy's body and distracted. What?

How was the best plan to infiltrate a brothel killing everyone inside and dressing in their clothes? Why not do anything else? They didn't make it clear it had anything to do with electronics. If it's just about making zombies, all they needed to do was get past the wall and then go... anywhere.

Also, I thought after the first bullet pinged off his metal skull, he would grab his own weapon from his desk and kill Enzo as he turned around. Why the hell did he try to reason with him? 

I'm not saying Martin was a great villain but even though he showed up at the last minute, there was something interesting there. If Enzo is really is charge now it's Vivian all over again (when the writers haven't really thought through a plan or motivations so they kill the person who seems to have a plan so they never have to fully explain or cash out the plan). Maybe it was a set up to throw Liv off the trail (e.g. Martin faked his death) but that seems like a long shot. I think the writers just did a bad thing. Boo...

[aradia22]

Quote

I don't want this show to end with anything other than a zombie cure for everyone. There may be some benefits to the zombie virus, (revealing the thoughts of the dead, preventing death from illness) there is nothing to show that a large enough population won't end up with unintended human deaths.

That reminds me, in her argument with Martin why did Liv never say 'hey, you should work with the scientists to help create a mass producible cure'? He might still have refused because he's pro-zombie. But if Ravi has proven he can make a cure with tainted utopium and whatever (I forget at this point) and Martin is an obsessive chemist who knows exactly how to make the utopium then it seems like a pretty obvious solution to the zombie/human conflict is just turning all the zombies human again.

Quote

It's strange that the zombie women posing as prostitutes need to eat the brains of the human prostitutes they killed.  What's the point?  So that they become better at sex?  Or just so that they don't feel ashamed of sleeping with strange men for money?  I would think that their devotion to the cause would have taken care of that.  And who cares how good they are at sex?  I don't think the brothel's clientele is going to care.

I had the exact same thoughts. Maybe they just wanted a snack? But brains can kind of hijack their zombies. Not everyone is as extreme as Liv but we've seen all kinds of effects. Seems risky to just eat an brain in the middle of your crazy plan without knowing the possible side-effects of taking on someone else's personality and memory flashes.

Quote

t's unclear if the public at large knows that the zombie virus gets transmitted through sex and condoms are useless.

Is that true? I thought the cases of human/zombie couples abstaining was just about avoiding accidental scratches. I feel like I would remember if the show ever stated something like that.

[Chicago Redshirt]

14 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

Is that true? I thought the cases of human/zombie couples abstaining was just about avoiding accidental scratches. I feel like I would remember if the show ever stated something like that.

Yeah, the show explicitly had Ravi say that the virus is so small that condoms are useless. 

If it was just about avoiding accidental scratches, zombies could just wear gloves. 

[ketose]

15 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

Is that true? I thought the cases of human/zombie couples abstaining was just about avoiding accidental scratches. I feel like I would remember if the show ever stated something like that.

Ravi actually did tests with a bunch of condoms and it turned out none prevented transmission of the virus. At the time, Liv was very interested because she was back with Major and he was human.

[Regalbegal]

1 hour ago, aradia22 said:

Wait, so Blaine didn't kill Darcy? She just died naturally? I thought he would get revenge on Don E. At least kill him while he was kneeling besides Darcy's body and distracted. What?

At least for me, I thought the writers were strongly implying he did her in - suddenly after Blaine finds out the other kids were saved, realized Don E double-crossed him, and realized Darcy was his only cure brain (and $ source) left, she dies?  But, of course, I might be mis-reading...

[LoneHaranguer]

56 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

I had the exact same thoughts. Maybe they just wanted a snack? But brains can kind of hijack their zombies. Not everyone is as extreme as Liv but we've seen all kinds of effects. Seems risky to just eat an brain in the middle of your crazy plan without knowing the possible side-effects of taking on someone else's personality and memory flashes.

Early episodes of Quantum Leap made the point that it's not as easy as you might think to be someone else. At the least, there are probably things like business procedures and prices they'd want to be up on so that victims won't be telling authorities about the oddly-acting prostitutes they had been with. The memory flashes will be a smaller risk than guys later saying "I didn't care at the time because it was a great deal, but ...".

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

I'm going to miss this show, I've always enjoyed seeing Rose playing different roles so well.

[MisterGlass]

I think the zombie virus incubation time is too short for this plan to work.  Unless they are all on planes within eight hours, it's going to be clear they are infected before they leave.  Las Vegas would be quarantined.

[ketose]

6 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I think the zombie virus incubation time is too short for this plan to work.  Unless they are all on planes within eight hours, it's going to be clear they are infected before they leave.  Las Vegas would be quarantined.

They'd have to do the same thing as with the Senator, hope that fear of being found out will make them hide their secret. After Blaine slept with the rich woman in the first season, she got a gray streak in her hair the next morning.

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, ketose said:

After Blaine slept with the rich woman in the first season, she got a gray streak in her hair the next morning.

This reminds me of another plot point in this episode that didn't make sense to me, about the mistress of the rich zombie who was killed by his wife just after he took the cure and turned human. Liv and Ravi listen in on the interrogation of the mistress, and then Ravi asks Major to meet her posing as a rich guy interested in buying a cure. Ultimately this leads to Major and Ravi finding and rescuing the kidnapped Freylich kids. But the part of this plot that didn't make sense to me is how a human could be having an affair with a zombie without getting infected. It sounded like the mistress had been with the zombie for quite a while before his wife found out and killed him, but in any case having sex even once should have infected her since it's been established before that condoms don't protect against zombie infection. Am I missing something?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

14 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Wait, so Blaine didn't kill Darcy? She just died naturally? I thought he would get revenge on Don E. At least kill him while he was kneeling besides Darcy's body and distracted. What?

Blaine definitely killed Darcy. There's no way that she coincidentally happened to die of her Freylich's just moments after Blaine found out that Don E. had betrayed him. The smirk on Blaine's face while Don E. was kneeling in front of her body confirmed that he killed her out of spite. Blaine's just holding off on telling Don E. until the right moment so he can twist the knife even more.

Killing Darcy was a two for one deal for Blaine. He got a much needed Freylich's brain to replenish his bank account (especially since Ravi and Major just stole his stash of Freylich's kids) and he got revenge on Don E. for what he did.

Edited July 20, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[aradia22]

Quote

 But the part of this plot that didn't make sense to me is how a human could be having an affair with a zombie without getting infected. It sounded like the mistress had been with the zombie for quite a while before his wife found out and killed him, but in any case having sex even once should have infected her since it's been established before that condoms don't protect against zombie infection. Am I missing something?

I agree it was unclear. But I think the implication was that they'd been abstaining until he became a human, possibly knowing his wife intended to buy a cure. More of an emotional affair? I don't know.

Quote

Blaine's just holding off on telling Don E. until the right moment so he can twist the knife even more.

That's what I thought... but they played it weirdly. You expect an emotional blow where it's clear that Blaine has killed her but she's just lying there peacefully. I think that makes sense if Blaine's playing a long con but the show is almost over. I guess of course the characters don't know that the show they're on has been cancelled but narratively there's something a little off about this and Liv still doing her wacky cases of the week and so on. There was more urgency in season 1 and then the main villain was just Blaine and not all these various extremists who seem ready to blow up the world. 

[MisterGlass]

Blaine may intend to worm his way back into the brain business, and he would need Don E's compliance to do it.  Or to get the money.  In addition to getting him temporary funds and hurting Don E, this all make Don E more emotionally vulnerable for manipulation.

[ratgirlagogo]

On 7/19/2019 at 2:23 PM, AnimeMania said:

One think that I thought was kind of funny was that "Bitchcraft" claimed not to care about drag queen icons, but when Liv was was describing the the different Cher phases (she even had pictures and been studying), "Bitchcraft" was still better at it and going from memory.

It also kind of undermined the point of Bitchcraft being young and obnoxious and not knowing anything about the history of drag.  A young obnoxious queen wouldn't really have a clear notion of Cher anymore than they would of Judy Garland.  They'd be all about Beyonce and Taylor Swift.

I love the whole thing of the "being on brain" plot device.  I do think this whole season the writers have done less with the idea which is disappointing.

I wish we still had character threads - because I've been waiting ALL SEASON for the terrible phony looking hairpiece that Martin is wearing to pay off in the storyline.  If anyone else has already talked about this, sorry.   If that's not Chekhov's Wig then why is it so bad?  All season I've been waiting for him to RIP IT OFF like Marcia Cross on Melrose Place and display some kind of hideous cyber-zombie contraption where his brain should be.

[ketose]

1 hour ago, ratgirlagogo said:

It also kind of undermined the point of Bitchcraft being young and obnoxious and not knowing anything about the history of drag.  A young obnoxious queen wouldn't really have a clear notion of Cher anymore than they would of Judy Garland.  They'd be all about Beyonce and Taylor Swift.

I love the whole thing of the "being on brain" plot device.  I do think this whole season the writers have done less with the idea which is disappointing.

I wish we still had character threads - because I've been waiting ALL SEASON for the terrible phony looking hairpiece that Martin is wearing to pay off in the storyline.  If anyone else has already talked about this, sorry.   If that's not Chekhov's Wig then why is it so bad?  All season I've been waiting for him to RIP IT OFF like Marcia Cross on Melrose Place and display some kind of hideous cyber-zombie contraption where his brain should be.

Cher is definitely more current than Judy Garland. Cher was around since the 60's but she didn't become a gay icon until the late 90's.

Martin's steel plate was revealed a number of episodes ago. Of course, it proved useless because Martin didn't use the moment of surprise to put a bullet in Enzo's head.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, ketose said:

Martin's steel plate was revealed a number of episodes ago. Of course, it proved useless because Martin didn't use the moment of surprise to put a bullet in Enzo's head.

Martin's steel plate was shown in the episode where they kidnap the gay teacher to infiltrate Liv's coyote organization.

[jhlipton]

22 hours ago, ketose said:

Martin's steel plate was revealed a number of episodes ago. Of course, it proved useless because Martin didn't use the moment of surprise to put a bullet in Enzo's head.

That was so poorly done.  I for one am glad this show is limping towards its conclusion.

[Anela]

I missed the steel plate thing, so does that mean that he's still alive?

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

I missed the steel plate thing, so does that mean that he's still alive?

No, he was shot in the forehead a moment later. 

[ratgirlagogo]

On 7/23/2019 at 9:10 PM, ketose said:

Martin's steel plate was revealed a number of episodes ago.

Yes, I did notice that much but I was still waiting for him to RIP OFF THE WIG, which didn't happen.  So I still keep thinking it's going to happen.

Edited July 27, 2019 by ratgirlagogo

[morakot]

And again, having zombies (who cannot reproduce) is a poorly considered plan. Once they have infected or eaten all of the humans, they would Romero out and/or be killed and the zombie race would be no more.

[mrsbagnet]

I was surprised to see Bubba in this episode. I thought he would be love shacking with Candy in Corvallis.