S03.E08: Unfit

[ferjy]

7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

As are Luke, Nick, Serena, Fred, Moira, Janeen, and Emily.  All of whom have had several certain death experiences and easily survived.

I get your point about this, but none of them are as constant as June. I think that's the nitpick we all have. Main or popular characters always have some plot armor so I can allow for that, but June's has gone ridiculously over the limit.

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, ferjy said:

I get your point about this, but none of them are as constant as June. I think that's the nitpick we all have. Main or popular characters always have some plot armor so I can allow for that, but June's has gone ridiculously over the limit.

It's a problem with the writing that extends not only to the main character, but to all of their supporting characters as well (except, so far, Lydia, oh hell, maybe even her, stabbed in the back, pushed down a flight of stairs at her age, and she's totally fine, just needed a cane for a couple of episodes.)

It happens to June more, because she's on screen more, not because she's "special" but because this showrunner is a one trick pony.

Well, two tricks.  Peril than never pays off.  Extreme close ups on everyone in every episode.

[ferjy]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

except, so far, Lydia, oh hell, maybe even her,stabbed in the back, pushed down a flight of stairs at her age, and she's totally fine, just needed a cane for a couple of episodes.

One episode to be precise. In the next, she was hopping around like a leprechaun.

[ferjy]

On 7/10/2019 at 3:39 PM, HeySandyStrange said:

And June with her god complex and smirking face close up-do I really need to be intimately acquainted with Liz's moles?

WARNING! Small children, look away.

[Umbelina]

two trick ponies, close ups and peril without payoff or resolve.

[Ariam]

14 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

two trick ponies, close ups and peril without payoff or resolve.

Half of those aren’t close ups, they are just cut zoomed in images of their face, not full screen. 

Its also not comparable to the constant continuous close ups of June’s disgusting facial expressions. Like the weird smile she had when ofwhoever was trying to shoot her. It was ridiculous. Or the very parodic last close up with que serait serait playing in the background. 

Others get an occasional close up and that goes into style and is fine. But when half of the episode time goes into one persons rather ugly close ups then it’s just off putting. 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Ariam

[jenn31]

Luke Bankole, loser

OT Fagbenle, HOT!

[goldilocks]

Never mind. 

Edited July 13, 2019 by goldilocks
Just got the joke. Insomnia is a bitch.

[jenn31]

13 hours ago, Umbelina said:

No, OfMathew did, by snitching on her, and Gilead did, since they ordered the hangings.

June had no power over that Martha, she couldn't and didn't MAKE her come to that store. 

OfMathew had power over her though, and she snitched and got her hung.

No, June caused it by starting the whole process, lying to the Martha, taking poor Mrs. Lawrence with her, not to mention alienating her walking partner. You'd think she'd want everyone on her side and suck it up a bit and make allies instead of enemies. She never does anything wisely or with consideration for others and how her actions may affect them, never thinks about the domino effect. That's exactly what happened here. You can be indirectly responsible, and everything in this stunt of hers pointed to disaster. Yet ahead she went with her (un)plan.

[steph369]

I joined so that I have somewhere to complain about the show. 😉 Glad I’m not the only one who feels major disappointment this season. I could write a long post but I would only be repeating what most people here have already said. So I just want to chime in to say I agree with all of you. A lot of good posts here and a lot of funny ones but I think my favorite is the very first post. Short and to the point. You don’t have to say much to get a very valid point across. Of course, we must rant. What else are forums for!

[pasdetrois]

Quote

I am starting to think that the writers and director must be woman haters who purposefully intend to ruin Atwood’s story and any feminist ideal that initially was part of the story. They are doing that by turning the show into a parody, making it impossible to identify with the women in the story and easy to actually hate them. 

I just posted in Episode 1 that I hate the series and stopped watching. I wanted to say more about why, but you have summed it up perfectly. The premise of the original story has devolved into Real Handmaids of Gilead.

[steph369]

On 7/11/2019 at 2:41 PM, Umbelina said:

Did the wives drink at that party in DC?  I can't remember.

Yes, they did. I remember seeing a wife take a drink from one of the waiters. It was the first time I realized they’re allowed to drink. And dance the sexy tango apparently. They’re selective in their rules! 

[Ashforth]

What a wasted opportunity to tell Lydia's story. And they had it, they HAD IT, but they fucked it up.

Lydia was an attorney practicing family law. I can tell you from my experience working in that field that you see parents at their worst. It would be easy to get into the mindset that their kids would be better off with someone else.

So Gilead happens and family law is “privatized.” In other words, courts are abolished and the Sons of Jacob are in charge. There is something of a precedent for this - our government already does it with prisons. Did you know that many prisons and immigrant “detention centers” in our country have been turned over to and are run by private, for-profit corporations?

Lydia is hired to administer family “justice” to people who have children (like Noelle), i.e. to evaluate their fitness and find justification to take away their children and give them to Gilead's Commanders. At first it's just a job and she may not be completely comfortable with it, but as she's indoctrinated, she comes to believe that she is doing the Lord's work. Over time, the Gilead government begins to conscript the unfit, sinful mothers to be Handmaids. Lydia decides that her ultimate calling is to help these bad girls to be productive (ha! See what I did there?) citizens.

I haven't worked out the evolution of her comfort with sadistic treatment of her “girls.” Maybe it was there all along, maybe not. But in my script, it didn't happen because she couldn't get laid.

[JasonCC]

I'm choosing to believe that was just ONE moment of Aunt Lydia's life before Gilead (or during the transition to Gilead) and not the be all/end all of how she became who she is. I think it was a gradual progression with many moments: leaving family law, etc. 

[AnswersWanted]

On 7/12/2019 at 7:54 AM, Trillian said:

I feel your pain.  Once upon a time, The West Wing was my absolute favourite show, as in I woke up the morning it was on with a song in my heart and couldn’t wait until it aired. After Aaron Sorkin left, cracks started to appear.  Then, in Season 5, something happened that I found so ridiculous that I snapped. I walked out of the room and didn’t watch another episode until many years later when I’d calmed down and found another love in The Americans.  The fall is always harder, and more personal, when the initial viewing experience was so great.

I really enjoyed THT’s first season, but I didn’t love love it.  I thought both the Mexico and the Canada plots were bad. But the thing I really disliked (the first major crack) was June’s voiceover “if they didn’t want us to be an army, they shouldn’t have given us uniforms”.  I didn’t feel it was true to the book or to the spirit of the show.  The Handmaids’ experience in the book and most of Season 1 is claustrophobic and isolated. They have no one to trust.  “She is my spy and I am hers”.

And that’s where I think so much of this season has gone completely off the rails.  These handmaids run around barely supervised, openly having conversations amongst themselves and their captors are powerless to control them. Aunt Lydia can’t do anything except tell June to tell her friends to cool it?  Book and Season 1 Lydia would’ve shocked them with cattle prods for speaking, and had June forceably removed from the store and beaten.  They wouldn’t have had a chance to shun OfMatthew. They would’ve hated her but she would’ve been protected by Lydia and held up as a model prisoner. Some handmaids would've followed her example for their own protection. 

I’ve been trying to think of an example from history, art or literature where these kind of shenanigans happened.  Something to justify what’s happened to the plot, because, yeah, these things happen. Somewhere else where the prisoners rule the roost; where they have multiple chances to escape but don’t so they can undermine the system from within; where their captors are powerless to control them and have to rely on their leader to get any sort of cooperation.

And the best I could come up with was Hogan’s Heroes. 

I admit I fanwanked hard in season 1 because of how much I loved the book and seeing such a large chunk of it brought to life was really enjoyable.

And it was right after...everything, heh, so that too fed into my desire to support this feminism heavy endeavor.

But like you said, those great qualities that the book had, and season 1 displayed, are almost nowhere to be found. 

I honestly feel like I’m watching a rip-off of the original show, it’s so unbelievably off base and seems to be portraying these characters as completely opposite to who they used to be. 

A sadist aunt like Lydia who thrives on inflicting pain and suffering on her “girls” now merely asks them nicely to mind her and behave. That’s ludicrous based on what we’ve already seen from her, including this season.

That horrid wench has brutalized Janine in a rage, she’s zapped June with clear ferocity and desire to cause significant pain, but now she just sees no way around June’s insolence, just no way at all...fuck off, show. 

And the handmaids...are they tortured prisoners of Gilead, sentenced to be raped and abused, or are they now just a bunch of gal pals ruining the joint, taking shit from nobody, giving no fucks whatsoever. 

Ah, HH, now there was a masterpiece. And it was meant to be a comedy. This show has become hilarious for all the wrong reasons. 

On 7/12/2019 at 10:23 AM, ferjy said:

So true. I keep asking myself why I’m still watching. Normally I would have tuned out by now. I think it’s because every so often they show us a good scene or an upcoming plot line looks promising (like the Aunt Lydia back story anticipation) and I have a glimmer of hope. Only to have that hope brutally quashed.

I now believe that the show has officially stopped trying to oppress its’ characters within the show because it now freely oppresses its’ viewers. 

On 7/12/2019 at 10:26 AM, ferjy said:

Snort! As I was reading this I was thinking “Don’t give them any ideas,” just to see it in your next sentence. Lord only knows with these guys. They’re probably rubbing their chins now, contemplating the possibility and jotting it down under their “SHOCK MATERIAL” column.

Normally I’d want full writing credit for an idea, but in this case...

*slowly backs away whistling* 

On 7/12/2019 at 10:31 AM, jenn31 said:

If the scene shows up in the show, we’ll put AnswersWanted in the middle of a circle chanting “Your fault!” 

Heeeeee, I love this group. 

On 7/12/2019 at 4:26 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

There could be 55 cannons pointed at June and not one of them would hit this motherfucker.  She's Bulletproof.  It is BEYOND PARODY

Amen. 

It’s really sad to see what was once such an important voice of the story turned into a laughably bad joke. 

10 hours ago, steph77 said:

I joined so that I have somewhere to complain about the show. 😉 Glad I’m not the only one who feels major disappointment this season. I could write a long post but I would only be repeating what most people here have already said. So I just want to chime in to say I agree with all of you. A lot of good posts here and a lot of funny ones but I think my favorite is the very first post. Short and to the point. You don’t have to say much to get a very valid point across. Of course, we must rant. What else are forums for!

I remember wondering if I even wanted to start the thread for this episode, I was so let down by it, even more than I thought I would be. 

But then I just wanted to express my exact feelings in the moment so, heh, that came out. 

Were it not for this forum I probably would have checked out already. 

Oh, and welcome!

We have wine, cheese and crackers, and limitless snark, please have as much as you like. 

10 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I just posted in Episode 1 that I hate the series and stopped watching. I wanted to say more about why, but you have summed it up perfectly. The premise of the original story has devolved into Real Handmaids of Gilead.

Oh that is perfect. 

Now I want to see them doing one of those tragic and trashy sit down “tell all” reunions, complete with drunken slaps, hair pulling, and unintelligible screaming of every curse word known to man. 

7 hours ago, Ashforth said:

What a wasted opportunity to tell Lydia's story. And they had it, they HAD IT, but they fucked it up.

Lydia was an attorney practicing family law. I can tell you from my experience working in that field that you see parents at their worst. It would be easy to get into the mindset that their kids would be better off with someone else.

So Gilead happens and family law is “privatized.” In other words, courts are abolished and the Sons of Jacob are in charge. There is something of a precedent for this - our government already does it with prisons. Did you know that many prisons and immigrant “detention centers” in our country have been turned over to and are run by private, for-profit corporations?

Lydia is hired to administer family “justice” to people who have children (like Noelle), i.e. to evaluate their fitness and find justification to take away their children and give them to Gilead's Commanders. At first it's just a job and she may not be completely comfortable with it, but as she's indoctrinated, she comes to believe that she is doing the Lord's work. Over time, the Gilead government begins to conscript the unfit, sinful mothers to be Handmaids. Lydia decides that her ultimate calling is to help these bad girls to be productive (ha! See what I did there?) citizens.

I haven't worked out the evolution of her comfort with sadistic treatment of her “girls.” Maybe it was there all along, maybe not. But in my script, it didn't happen because she couldn't get laid.

Now that would have been a golden take on her backstory. 

When I realized they were going to involve a failed romance angle into Lydia’s trigger moment I just had to sigh and roll my eyes. 

This character had more than enough established layers that they should have been able to cone up with something even half as good as you did. 

Her motivation could have been based on everything from religious fanaticism to being a sadist sociopath, the well to draw from was deep with Lydia. 

Instead the show just went with the basic package of “woman felled by lust” and it’s such a tired, overplayed, trope at this point, so unoriginal and tedious.

They could have dedicated the entire episode to Lydia, frankly with all the ridiculous handmaid bullshit they stuck in, I would have preferred a solo Lydia tale. 

Start her at the beginning of her day in Gilead, and as she goes through it, they could have flashed through her backstory, showing us pre-, during, and post Gilead Lydia. 

This show has forgotten not only how to tell a story, but also how to just merely entertain, imo.

I don’t want to spend twice as long as I did watching afterwards in my head trying to make sense of what I just watched, and connecting umpteen dots to complete the story they couldn’t be bothered to finish themselves.

[ferjy]

3 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

This show has forgotten not only how to tell a story, but also how to just merely entertain, imo.

I don’t want to spend twice as long as I did watching afterwards in my head trying to make sense of what I just watched, and connecting umpteen dots to complete the story they couldn’t be bothered to finish themselves.

I say that next season we watch the first season again instead of this tripe and congregate in those threads. It would be nice to be able to say something positive about the show again!

[steph369]

6 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Oh, and welcome!

We have wine, cheese and crackers, and limitless snark, please have as much as you like. 

Thanks! I’ll take two helpings of the snark, please. If I don’t laugh, I may cry. 

2 hours ago, ferjy said:

I say that next season we watch the first season again instead of this tripe and congregate in those threads. It would be nice to be able to say something positive about the show again!

Perfect idea! I loved the first season. Now I barely recognize it as the same show. 🙁

Edited July 14, 2019 by steph369
Couldn’t get the smilie to work.

[AnswersWanted]

28 minutes ago, ferjy said:

I say that next season we watch the first season again instead of this tripe and congregate in those threads. It would be nice to be able to say something positive about the show again!

Oh now there's an idea, I like it. 

Except there was a lot more Nick in that one...well, I guess that's still a sacrifice worth making, heh. 

Honestly that is one thing I will say has been nice about this season, Nick has barely been a factor. 

I was getting tired of his brooding boredom, especially after last season.

I guess even the show forgot what else they could do with him after killing off his baby bride. 

3 minutes ago, steph77 said:

Thanks! I’ll take two helpings of the snark, please. If I don’t laugh, I may cry. 

Perfect idea! I loved the first season. Now I barely recognize it as the same show. 😞

Take three, I know well the feeling. 

This show has crashed and burned rather spectacularly from where it was in season 1. 

[Ashforth]

5 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Her motivation could have been based on everything from religious fanaticism to being a sadist sociopath, the well to draw from was deep with Lydia. 

So well put! It's so disappointing that instead of going deep, the writers chose to splash in a shallow puddle.

[ferjy]

2 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Except there was a lot more Nick in that one...well, I guess that's still a sacrifice worth making, heh. 

Honestly that is one thing I will say has been nice about this season, Nick has barely been a factor. 

I was getting tired of his brooding boredom, especially after last season.

We need some material for snarking. 😉 I'm sure we could come up with some good ones for sullen Nick. I wonder if he'll be back. Probably not. It would cut into time for June's glaring closeups.

[secnarf]

On 7/10/2019 at 5:22 AM, Miles said:

I thought the mother was going to cause the death of the child. Thus driving aunt Lydia to extreme measures to ensure that future children will be save. Maybe Lydia even prevented CPS from taking the boy, because after getting to know the mother, she thought she could handle it. That would have made it extra tragic.

It also would have played into the punishment where the handmaids have to admit their wrong doings and would have made a great bookend with a pregnant handmaid getting killed, which would mean that Lydia's actions caused another child to get killed.

This is what I thought as well - that either the mom was going to forget the kid in a hot car or something, or that while Lydia and the principal were getting it on, one of the mom's current or former boyfriends killed the kid in a drunken NYE rage. Or, less dramatically, for Lydia herself to realize she is being "tempted by sin" (either before or after they have sex). While I agree that the writers were probably attempting to show how Lydia is learning that being tempted by sin leads to bad outcomes and those that tempt her should be punished, I don't think the execution worked. It ended up coming across as much more of a woman scorned type of picture.

It felt incomplete as a 'backstory' story - which is okay if there is more to come, but not okay if that's all they are going to give us.

I also wondered what became of all of those people in Gilead - I'd imagine Noelle becoming a handmaid, and the child being 'adopted' out, but I am unsure about the principal, who seemed genuinely put off by removing the child from his mother, and if we will ever see these characters again.

As for the rest of the episode - I also thought the execution of the final scene was lacking something to give it the emotional impact that the writers were going for. It was hard to see why exactly Ofmatthew flipped on Janine, and what lead to her complete breakdown. I read the interview with the actress but I don't think a lot of that was shown onscreen very well. It looked to me like June was telling Ofmatthew to shoot her. June's pleasure at the chain of events was also off-putting, to say the least. I really just don't like or care about her anymore.

I want more Emily - and not the ridiculousness of threatening to extradite her to Gilead.

[Joana]

4 minutes ago, secnarf said:

June's pleasure at the chain of events was also off-putting, to say the least. I really just don't like or care about her anymore.

Her total indifference to Janine (an entirely and unconditionally innocent person in the whole mess) being brutally attacked, as a consequence of her own actions no less, was just so infuriating, and no state of mind can justify that. At that point I was totally fine with OfMatthew putting a bullet through her.

[AnswersWanted]

11 hours ago, Ashforth said:

So well put! It's so disappointing that instead of going deep, the writers chose to splash in a shallow puddle.

That’s probably my greatest source of frustration at the moment with this show. 

Some shows clearly run out of ideas and creative inspiration and it’s blatantly obvious, so when you see them stretching for plots and storylines that are doomed to fail you get why. 

But this show has the complete opposite problem, they aren’t lacking in potential, they have plenty to work with, both from the original source material and the quality of actors, mainly, that they’ve working with. 

But somehow they keep giving us the bare minimum, if that. There’s no sense of quality control, they go for the most basic, hohum, contrived ideas and then act as if they’ve crafted incredible masterpieces. 

It’s like this show has become a a Michael Bay production, all flash and no substance. 

10 hours ago, ferjy said:

We need some material for snarking. 😉 I'm sure we could come up with some good ones for sullen Nick. I wonder if he'll be back. Probably not. It would cut into time for June's glaring closeups.

Oh I think I hated on Nick plenty the first time around, heh. I didn’t care for the character or the actor much. 

If he does come back this season, he’ll probably be a general or something. 

But no matter what happens to him or anyone else on screen, time will always be made for June’s nose hair pan, er I mean “closeup”. 

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

I read the interview with the actress but I don't think a lot of that was shown onscreen very well.

That is a common issue with this cast and the writers. 

I ofteh just want to ask them, honestly, what show are they watching/filming, because it sounds like it’d be a huge improvement over the mess of a shit bomb THT has become. 

If you really went off their interviews you would think this show is one for the ages, it’s baffling.

I mean, I know most actors and writers hype their own work for obvious reasons. But the way they talk about this show seems borderline delusional. 

[Ashforth]

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

I also wondered what became of all of those people in Gilead - I'd imagine Noelle becoming a handmaid, and the child being 'adopted' out, but I am unsure about the principal, who seemed genuinely put off by removing the child from his mother, and if we will ever see these characters again.

That was another missed opportunity. Since the timeline was fuzzy, we don't know whether the enslavement of fertile women was happening at that time, but wouldn't it have been interesting to see Lydia's reaction to not only the child being taken, but Noelle being cuffed and gagged, wrapped in a red cloak and stuffed into a van?

We'll never see Noelle or the principal again, they were one of what are becoming signature one-offs on this show.

The writers' vocabulary seems to be quite limited. As Noelle's son is taken, she screams "you bitch" at Lydia multiple times. June screamed "you bitch" at Ofmatthew last week. Is that what this sorry mutation of an iconic feminist novel has come to? Instead of meaningful dialogue, women call each other bitches? Shame.

I paused during the recap of the last episode's hanging scene. Two Handmaids were executed along with the McKenzie's Martha. Would that not make the Handmaids cautious about what they do in front of Aunt Lydia? 

The idea that they are rallying around June because she got Holly/Nicole out of Gilead is nonsense. June had nothing to do with that, it was handed to her on a silver platter - with no knowledge of or participation on her part to set it up - by the Martha underground (and maybe Commander Lawrence, he was obviously aware of it because he took Emily to the drop site).

Speaking of Lawrence, wow, there is another character that has been violently jerked back and forth with no sense of rhyme or reason. Is he part of the Resistance? Does he support the Martha network? If so, what happened to his longtime Martha who disappeared? Does he think the Handmaid system is an abomination? Is he a sneering, dismissive woman-hater? Is he super-powerful or does Aunt Lydia order him around? No wonder he always has a giant scarf around his neck, he must be trying to treat his whiplash.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Ashforth

[Ceindreadh]

On 7/10/2019 at 10:01 PM, rubinia said:

Uh, she has reached and then left that stage over and over throughout the last two seasons. That’s one of the things about this show that’s getting old.

So June can attack a *pregnant* handmaid with no consequences, but when said pregnant handmaid attacks Janine the guards immediately come over to grab her? Yeah, sure.

When June attacked Ofmatthew, the other handmaids immediately moved into position and formed a physical barrier between them and the guardians. I don’t know if they too far away to hear what was going on, but they definitely couldn’t see it. 

On the other hand, Ofmatthew attacks Janine in full view of everyone and it seems to take ages before a guardian gets within striking distance. 

But let’s everybody complain about how June is the one getting away with things for no reason. 

[Ashforth]

22 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

When June attacked Ofmatthew, the other handmaids immediately moved into position and formed a physical barrier between them and the guardians. I don’t know if they too far away to hear what was going on, but they definitely couldn’t see it. 

On the other hand, Ofmatthew attacks Janine in full view of everyone and it seems to take ages before a guardian gets within striking distance. 

But let’s everybody complain about how June is the one getting away with things for no reason. 

Given that Ofmatthew was shot and her apparently lifeless body dragged unceremoniously out of the store with no attempt to revive her or save her baby (really, show?), I wouldn't say that she got away with anything.

[Joana]

2 minutes ago, Ashforth said:

Given that Ofmatthew was shot and her apparently lifeless body dragged unceremoniously out of the store with no attempt to revive her or save her baby (really, show?), I wouldn't say that she got away with anything.

Exactly. Without even getting into the ridiculous plot contrivance of no guards being around when June attacked OfMatthew/them being that slow to react when the other one flipped out in the store, in the end, OfMatthew was (presumably) killed. June's "punishment" for trying to kill her? She gets to talk back to all of her superiors and refuse to peform her duties as a handmaid. Makes total sense. 

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, Joana said:

Her total indifference to Janine (an entirely and unconditionally innocent person in the whole mess) being brutally attacked, as a consequence of her own actions no less, was just so infuriating, and no state of mind can justify that. At that point I was totally fine with OfMatthew putting a bullet through her.

I totally got her indifference, that was a scene that didn't bother me at all, it was "earned."  (Once again I'm wondering if my current re-watching of Better Call Saul is influencing me here, kind of training me to pay attention or something to all of the small things.)

Anyway, WAY earlier in the season we have the Commanders decide to increase the executions because "it's been shown that it helps keep them in line."  The "them" is obviously the Handmaids, because they now don't just have to tear people apart with their hands, or stone them to death, but Gilead has included them in a new ritual for hangings, pulling those ropes.  Subsequently, we've had a couple of scenes about that, in one, June says something like "it's the fourth hanging this week." for example.  Then yet another baby dies, and June doesn't react to that either.

IF we had any trust in these writers, and I agree, they have squandered that trust, but if we still did?  This episode played out well, and it earned change.  I detested the two episodes before this one as far as the logical side of things, and the telling a complete tale side of things, but this particular episode?  I got. I liked.

Contrary to the Commanders plan to use nearly daily death scenes to "keep them in line" with June, it's backfired.  She's immune now, her body reached overload on the death and brutality that has swallowed her life.  She's crossed over.

Hannah being removed, lost again to her, is the other huge factor (BCS style here) in June's changes.  She, while the possibility of saving Hannah was still on the table?  Played their games.  Now that it's gone?  Again, she's DONE.

She doesn't care about her life at all anymore, she will say and do whatever she feels like, will she still want to bring down Gilead?  I hope so.  Does she know people will die when she, and other revolutionaries fight for that?  Yes, of course, it's inevitable.  She speaks frankly to Lawrence about his actions hurting his wife because she no longer cares to follow their rules, if they kill her?  So be it.

This season has been leading to this complete change in June, the groundwork is there, and the future prospects for the show are not bad.  The only question is?  Can they pull it off?

Edited July 14, 2019 by Umbelina
typo

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, secnarf said:

This is what I thought as well - that either the mom was going to forget the kid in a hot car or something, or that while Lydia and the principal were getting it on, one of the mom's current or former boyfriends killed the kid in a drunken NYE rage. Or, less dramatically, for Lydia herself to realize she is being "tempted by sin" (either before or after they have sex). While I agree that the writers were probably attempting to show how Lydia is learning that being tempted by sin leads to bad outcomes and those that tempt her should be punished, I don't think the execution worked. It ended up coming across as much more of a woman scorned type of picture. 

It felt incomplete as a 'backstory' story - which is okay if there is more to come, but not okay if that's all they are going to give us.

It came together for me, it was all right there.

Lydia was "tempted by sin" from the young mother, but later on, with that guy?  Lydia was flat out sinning herself.  Lust and fornication?  Huge sins, and throw in that a part of her probably envied that young mother for many reasons.  Who knows what else, those are the first ones that jumped out at me.   Lydia was then punished by (in her mind of course) God, with crushing humiliation, etc. 

(Holy cow, I just realized the parallel stories in this episode!  Both Lydia and June were reborn in this one, drastically changed, one in the present, and one in flashback.)

Anyway, Lydia, in a complete perversion but common reaction among religious fanatics, self righteously decides not only to never sin again herself?  But to make damn sure other women don't either!  How much of that is sexual frustration and jealousy?  Oh sure that's in there, along with denial and a bunch of other ugly things.

So, "for the good of the child" she tears that mother from her son.  She can justify that, and that justification continues to present day with "her girls."  She's KEEPING THEM FROM SIN, she's redeeming them from their previous sins, all to do the work of God, bring forth life.  She's saving the innocent children!

With this backstory, it's completely logical to see how this horrid, despicable woman got to where she is now. 

4 hours ago, secnarf said:

I also wondered what became of all of those people in Gilead - I'd imagine Noelle becoming a handmaid, and the child being 'adopted' out, but I am unsure about the principal, who seemed genuinely put off by removing the child from his mother, and if we will ever see these characters again.

Noelle would be a handmaid for sure.

I think Lydia would arrange for the death of that principal at some point.  Erase her shame, and she's easy at blaming others, so she'd find something to blame him for, perhaps his compassion for that young sinning devil of a mother.

In the book there are work camps for men as well, so he might be sent to clean up nuclear waste.

4 hours ago, secnarf said:

As for the rest of the episode - I also thought the execution of the final scene was lacking something to give it the emotional impact that the writers were going for. It was hard to see why exactly Ofmatthew flipped on Janine, and what lead to her complete breakdown. I read the interview with the actress but I don't think a lot of that was shown onscreen very well. It looked to me like June was telling Ofmatthew to shoot her. June's pleasure at the chain of events was also off-putting, to say the least. I really just don't like or care about her anymore.

I went into this a lot in my previous post, but I will say, I don't think she "flipped" on Janine, if you mean why didn't she rush to her aid, as she's always, always done in the past, protecting Janine? 

The constant horrors and murders have finally numbed her, to her pain, or to the pain of others.  She's crossed over into suicide bomber territory now.  It's all bullshit and horror, so what's one more death?  Nothing.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Umbelina
She's saving the innocent children!

[Ashforth]

On a lighter note, when they showed Ofmatthew holding the can of tomatoes by her face, I flashed on this for a second:

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/o1RY/aldi-tricks-fresh-produce

[goldilocks]

5 hours ago, Joana said:

Exactly. Without even getting into the ridiculous plot contrivance of no guards being around when June attacked OfMatthew/them being that slow to react when the other one flipped out in the store, in the end, OfMatthew was (presumably) killed. June's "punishment" for trying to kill her? She gets to talk back to all of her superiors and refuse to peform her duties as a handmaid. Makes total sense. 

That was ridiculous. No punishment at all. I was sure I missed a scene. But no, that’s exactly how they played it. 😕

[AngelaHunter]

7 hours ago, Ashforth said:

Given that Ofmatthew was shot and her apparently lifeless body dragged unceremoniously out of the store with no attempt to revive her or save her baby (really, show?),

Would a pregnant handmaid really be shot? The guards couldn't subdue one small woman without deadly force?

Also, the dead baby: What was wrong with it? Sometimes babies don't breathe immediately, need airway cleared or whatever, but Lydia, who is not a doctor, takes a brief look at it, decides in a millisecond it's a dud and that's it?

I actually enjoyed Lydia's backstory - the only one I have enjoyed in any way so far. So she was always a sanctimonious, vengeful Bible thumper. I do feel she overreacted just a wee bit to Jim's desire to slow down. Not sure how I felt about seeing Aunt Lydia gettin' it on.

I HATE that I only get to see this show half a week after everyone else here. Hard to catch up with the snark.

[AngelaHunter]

6 hours ago, Ashforth said:

On a lighter note, when they showed Ofmatthew holding the can of tomatoes by her face, I flashed on this for a second:

LOL! I thought of something even sillier. An old song.

Pity, oh pity

my poor Uncle Jim

somebody threw a tomato at him.

"Tomatoes won't hurt you,"

he said with a grin

"But they bloody well hurt

when they come in a tin."

Sorry.

Edited July 15, 2019 by AngelaHunter

[SourK]

Lydia: June, stop bullying Ofmatthew

June: What if we bully her together?

Lydia: OMG, u know me so well

I'm choosing to believe that "sometimes it's the apple, sometimes it's the barrel" is the key takeaway here, in that Lydia was always a rotten apple full of festering rage, waiting to lash out at people, and June has slowly become that way because she's been trapped in the Gilead barrel too long.

Also LOL at Lawrence slowly sliding the door closed while June stared at him. He was all of us in that moment.

On 7/10/2019 at 6:18 AM, ferjy said:

June is so special. I had to laugh when the handmaids were all chanting the “breathe” ditty when the handmaid was in labor but June gets to stand out of the circle, IN THE HALLWAY, with her hands crossed, NOT CHANTING, and the anger scowl on her face.

WHAT IF every time you look away from her and look back, she's still standing completely still and staring at you, but she's somehow two feet closer?

On 7/10/2019 at 4:59 PM, Penman61 said:

Wait, how have we not talked about the outro music choice?

"Que Sera, Sera" by Doris Day?

The popular song equivalent of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?

I think they're trying to work a theme about the "I asked my mother what will I be?" line, where a) there aren't a lot of options for women in Gilead and b) Lydia seemed to believe there weren't a lot of acceptable options for her, which is why she judged herself so harshly for her sexual impulses.

Though, I must say, it seems like kind of a bad choice to have these wacky musical moments after something HORRIBLE happens, as if to downplay the seriousness of the situation. This is the second episode in a row that ended with a black woman getting killed because of something June did, and I'm not sure fun credits music is the way to go.

On 7/10/2019 at 9:45 PM, Scarlett45 said:

The rest of Aunt Lydia’s back story didn’t make a lick of sense. That guy seemed to like her! And they had a lot in common (both teachers, religious, they went dancing); why would some crossed signals make her go from “judgy but well intentioned” to “take the boy away now”. Not a lick of sense. 

I think she's ashamed of her sexual impulses and/or sexual conduct. So, when she lunged at him and he pushed her away, in her mind, she became the same as that mom she felt contempt for, so she tried to distance herself from that feeling by lashing out at the mom. She was proving to herself that she WASN'T morally weak by reporting someone else for moral weakness. (It's not logical but people do stuff like that all the same).

On 7/11/2019 at 3:11 AM, Miles said:

I think we all get that the shame circle has been used beffore and is from the book, but it's still laughable when they use it to say "crybaby". "Shame", "weak", "her fault", etc. seem reasonable to tear somebody down, but "crybaby"? I'm surprised that actually rattled her and she didn't just break out laughing.

It was totally stupid and I had a hard time suspending my disbelief, but, imagine that you had no social or emotional support network for several years and then, when you're genuinely upset and vulnerable almost everyone you know makes fun of you for crying. That would be really hurtful. I think the problem is that I'm so far outside the experience of the show right now, and so far removed from what's happening that it's hard for me to identify with the characters. But in theory it kind of makes sense.

[CouchPotatoNoLife]

In regards to aunt Lydia's backstory, if I try to give the show the benefit of the doubt, maybe they're making an allusion to incels who become violent because they are unsuccessful with women?

I mean there are documented cases of men who become violent for that same reason. to be fair to the writers it's very hard to logically explain how somebody ends up like aunt Lydia. The reality is humans behave illogically all the time.

I've seen a lot of people seem to have lost all sympathy for June because of her behavior. I will say this in defense of her, the situation she's been put in would make almost anyone go crazy. I remember reading a book called "escape from camp 14". The book is an autobiographical story about a North Korean person born in a prison camp that managed to escape. In the book The author admits to several crimes and several other actions that led to brutal deaths of other people. But it wouldn't be fair to judge him because of the situation fate had put him in. 

June is in a very tough position. if she just left Gilead she would be giving up all hope of ever seeing her daughter again. I could see how that would have been hard for her. Plenty of parents are willing to die for their children. I think a lot of posters here have very unrealistic expectations of June. There's really not that much she could have realistically done in her position.

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by CouchPotatoNoLife

[Ceindreadh]

12 hours ago, Ashforth said:

Given that Ofmatthew was shot and her apparently lifeless body dragged unceremoniously out of the store with no attempt to revive her or save her baby (really, show?), I wouldn't say that she got away with anything.

My point was that in both cases the guardians didn’t step in immediately. Ofmatthew was beating down on Janine and the guardians were nowhere to be seen until one finally approached.  They only shot her after she’d killed one of their number and armed herself. 

But yet half the posts in the previous episode thread were about how June was able to get away with an assault that the guardians couldn’t even see. 

I’m not denying that June has a certain amount of plot armour but that wasn’t the case last week because the other handmaids protected her. 

[rubinia]

6 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

My point was that in both cases the guardians didn’t step in immediately. Ofmatthew was beating down on Janine and the guardians were nowhere to be seen until one finally approached.  They only shot her after she’d killed one of their number and armed herself. 

But yet half the posts in the previous episode thread were about how June was able to get away with an assault that the guardians couldn’t even see. 

I’m not denying that June has a certain amount of plot armour but that wasn’t the case last week because the other handmaids protected her. 

June was screaming and going nuts on OfMatthew and the other handmaids were breaking their organized lines to rush over and block the view. That wouldn’t attract attention? We’ve seen in multiple scenes that the guards are ever present and sometimes even walking beside the women. It just really strains belief that they wouldn’t at least break up the fight and if nothing else, report the incident to aunt lydia, who would undoubtedly punish June in a way that wouldn’t be visible in the propaganda films (cut off a finger, whip her feet, etc).

[AnswersWanted]

7 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

My point was that in both cases the guardians didn’t step in immediately. Ofmatthew was beating down on Janine and the guardians were nowhere to be seen until one finally approached.  They only shot her after she’d killed one of their number and armed herself. 

But yet half the posts in the previous episode thread were about how June was able to get away with an assault that the guardians couldn’t even see. 

I’m not denying that June has a certain amount of plot armour but that wasn’t the case last week because the other handmaids protected her. 

Anyone can get away with anything at any given time on this show, and that’s due to the terribly inconsistent writing. 

I don’t buy that June attacking Ofmatthew so violently would go completely unnoticed, especially since she was screaming and cursing at her at the top of her lungs and forcing her half off the side of the bridge in broad daylight.

That should have gotten someone’s attention, and it would have but it just wasn’t written to. The writers didn’t want June caught or taken to task, so she wasn’t, that’s how they’ve been operating this whole season. 

Even in this episode, before Ofmatthew’s freakout, we saw that regarding the entire group of Handmaids, all led by June, openly bullying Ofmatthew and not a single one of them got a mere crack across the knuckles for it, or a cattle prod jab to the ribs. 

The show only makes a big deal of consequences or punishment when it wants to further along the plot, but aside from that these characters get a free pass to do almost anything they want and everyone who supposedly would catch or punish them goes on standby. 

June is the most highlighted example because she’s the main character we see usually getting away with shit, but she’s certainly not the only one and it’s just as ridiculous for her as it is for anyone else who’s trapped in Gilead. 

In season 1 you got the sense of constant fear and trepidation and terror everyone felt, worried any little mistakes could mean certain death.

Even in season 2 it was still present at times, like Serena’s whipping or her finger being removed, or when Nick’s baby bride thought about reporting him as a gender traitor, and also when she and her new lover were cruelly executed by public drowning. 

But this season is the season of no fucks given or taken when it comes to consistently and sensibility.

The show will give itself a pass on whatever it wants to, from sexy tangos, to June losing her shit in open public, to a pregnant handmaid being gunned down. 

[AngelaHunter]

38 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

But this season is the season of no fucks given or taken when it comes to consistently and sensibility.

The show will give itself a pass on whatever it wants to, from sexy tangos, to June losing her shit in open public, to a pregnant handmaid being gunned down.

Sadly, yes. Plus coherent plot and story seem to take a backseat to style and framing. It's all kind of a nonsensical mess presented in slo-mo, yet I continue to watch and whose fault is that? "It's my fault! It's my fault! It's my fault!"

11 hours ago, CouchPotatoNoLife said:

I will say this in defense of her, the situation she's been put in would make almost anyone go crazy.

I've said that before, that no one could remain rational after all the suffering, degradation and brutality. I think the problem is that no matter what she does, there are now absolutely zero consequences for her, but everyone else faces harsh punishment for any infraction.

[Umbelina]

While I completely agree that the biggest issue in this episode, for me anyway, was that they hand waved away June's attack of Natalie on that bridge.  Just as they've hand waved away consequences or even answers about June before, and they other characters as well.  Serena and Fred especially have had no consequences, even for things that terrified them in the past (Canada disaster, that whole fight when June was hiding and listening, etc.)  I STILL don't understand what happened to Nick after he was hauled away by Guardians either...I could go on with nearly every "star" of this show.   The plot armor is ridiculous for the whole cast.

It's...so sloppy.

As far as the Guardians?  We've seen them nearly slaughter handmaids before, including pregnant handmaids.  Remember when Lydia rushed out to that field and stopped them from killing ALL of them?  Another unanswered question I've had for a long time is "Just how much power to the Aunts have?  We also saw Moira just order a guard away during her first escape.  It still makes no sense to me that any woman in Gilead would have more power than a man, other than a Commander's Wife in good standing that is.

As for OfMathew?  She was a blatant ass licking snitch, a danger to every single Handmaid that shunned her.  SHE got people killed.  While I adore the actress?  Her being shot does not bother me.  First, the other handmaids had no idea she would snap and start killing people.  Second, they HAD to send her a message that snitches were not welcome, and that shunning did that.  It was frankly the mildest way for them to try to stop her from snitching in the future.

I wouldn't have blamed the handmaids (including June) if they flat out killed her.  That what happens to collaborators during war, and this is a war, that's what happens to snitches in prisons, and this is a prison.

I wouldn't mind seeing what made Natalie this way, except for one thing, I am tired of flashbacks and I want to see current time world reaction to Gilead much more, and I also want a clear look into the Gilead power structure currently.  I care much more about the surrounding story than the past.

On this course in the story, especially the current set ups that I seriously hope pay off?  I actually CAN see June's circumstances changing here.  I think she's crossed over now, and I can't see her simply staying in Boston.

In thinking of the book?  We don't really know what happened

Spoiler

to June, what course her life took, how the tapes even got to that cabin.  She could have died, she could have been a suicide bomber herself, she may have escaped, she could have joined the fighting resistance, as that Martha was about to do.  None of that would go against book canon,

so the show could go anywhere with her.  Will they? 

Is the showrunner finally moving on in this story, his track record isn't promising, but I do have a ray of hope.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Umbelina

[lmdreamer]

My issue with junes plan was serena told her where hannahs school was back in ep 4 so she had the time equivalent of 3 episodes and that was the best she could come up with. Also why is she lashing out at her commander. Does it occur to her that even if he doesnt know right then where hannah is he wont try to find out if she butters him and his wife up? She needs to stop burning her bridges. 

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, lmdreamer said:

My issue with junes plan was serena told her where hannahs school was back in ep 4 so she had the time equivalent of 3 episodes and that was the best she could come up with. Also why is she lashing out at her commander. Does it occur to her that even if he doesnt know right then where hannah is he wont try to find out if she butters him and his wife up? She needs to stop burning her bridges. 

The school thing was in the previous episode, which I pretty much hated, and I agree, was completely idiotic for many reasons which I'm pretty sure I detailed in that thread.  🤬

I think, or maybe it's that I hope, that June is done with buttering anyone up.  Lawrence already told her that he has no idea where Hannah is and can't find out.  I THINK we are seeing a phase two June now, she has lost any realistic hope of finding Hannah, and she's, as said a few times, done.  She doesn't care if they kill or torture her, she's done pretending, she is full on kamikaze now, as Emily was when she jumped into that car, or stabbed Lydia, as the suicide bomb handmaid was, as Moira was when she attacked that Aunt in the bathroom and attempted to escape, or when she killed that Commander and stole a car and did escape.

June, at least I think this is what this season has been building to with her character, is not the same old June, there is no point in sucking up, that point is gone, the hope of getting Hannah out.  Her own life?  She no longer cares about because her life is hell on earth, and I think she would rather a few more people burn with her. 

Will the show go there?  June has a lot of dirt on a lot of powerful people, especially the Wallingfords and Lawrence, but also the helpful "doctor" impregnating handmaids, and I'm sure she could identify a few more Commanders enjoying their perversions in Jezebel's.  She could burn a lot down, but I don't know if the show is brave enough to do that.  I can hope though.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Umbelina
t

[kissedbyarose]

(I apologize beforehand if this is a little lengthy and ramble-y.)

Guys, I know you all remember Eden, the naïve girl most of us hoped wouldn’t be a plot device (look how that turned out) whose parents were devout and believed in this crappy woman-hating religious world. I hoped Aunt Lydia's backstory would sort of be an extension of that: a devout Catholic (I say Catholic because I am a lapsed one myself so that's what I know) who truly believed in the Bible but became disillusioned because of the corruption of the Church and saw the Sons of Jacob as a way to truly follow God's word. It would’ve been an excellent way to show the beginnings of this world and how these people managed to get some people to truly believe in the cause but here we are...

I read everyone’s thoughts and I get the shame aspect of it all. (Shame and guilt - a very Catholic thing I know well) but to make it through the lens of a simple request to slow down (I can’t even call it rejection because all he really did was pump the breaks for that moment. I mean it was their first date right? He seemed into her) is just lazy. The only thing worse than this shit would’ve been if Aunt Lydia was "repressed" lesbian.

We’ve seen the women go to doctors so for there not to be one even nearby at the birth just in case since LIVE BABIES are RARE is stupid. We've already seen that TPTB are willing to bend the rules (aunts can read etc) so that's really not an excuse for me.

June standing around like Regina George as the handmaid’s flit around her shunning/harassing Natalie and suffering no punishment is stupid. June telling Aunt Lydia that she can’t be punished because TV is laughable. There are ways to torture people that show absolutely no wounds or scars. She has certainly felt that cattle prod before, no? I thought of a few other ways right of the top of my head as I was watching but I won't share them since I don't want you guys to think I'm a sadistic bitch. LOL.

That throwaway line about the couple who didn’t want the POC handmaid infuriated me. We didn’t even learn Natalie’s name until she was gunned down in that ridiculous Matrix moment. This show has refused to deal with race and now here we are. Black people throughout the years have had to find ways to cope with being treated less than. You think they wanted to be singing in fields, picking cotton or being forced to use separate inferior spaces at the whims of white people? No, but they knew what would happen if they didn’t tow the line and not everyone is a rebel so it does not surprise me that Natalie would tow the line because look what happened when she didn’t! June is alive, Emily is alive etc and Natalie is a damn vegetable. (We don’t even know how Natalie was convinced to snitch and June snitched too, will she get the same treatment from the other handmaids? Alma: Hey girls, don’t tell June your secrets because she may use it against you. Plus she keeps fucking up our resistance plots! Let's spit in her water, trip her in the supermarket.)

Fuck this show.

I hate that I’m still going to watch because I’m clearly a masochist. This show was a great idea ruined by shitty writers who have no idea how to plot, pace and world build and it shows.

I actually don’t mind staying in Gilead because we have seen since season 1 that the writers cannot tell stories about what the world is doing outside of Gilead but there’s stories to tell through other handmaids like Alma, Natalie or Marthas or even the econowives and if we are staying with the Waterfords, shouldn’t they get a new handmaid? This show doesn’t even follow its own established rules within Gilead and at the end of the day that is the most frustrating part of this whole watching experience.

Also, if they are willing to shoot a pregnant handmaid who is shown to be REALLY fertile (4 pregnancies!) then they should really have no problem killing June, a handmaid who had a problem conceiving at her first post, got pregnant at her second post and has been nothing but trouble since then (and has shown zero signs of getting pregnant at her third post).

I clearly have too much time on my hands.

Edited July 16, 2019 by kissedbyarose

[greekmom]

I totally get it - up to a point.

To June, Hannah was her anchor.  Now that Hannah is gone and the Martha died, she's lost her anchor to sanity.  She had a purpose, to get Hannah and escape.  Now what??  And it's Natalie's fault (actually it's Lydia's) in June's eyes but really, it's Natalie drinking the kool aid and listening to Lydia when she should have not been so overall pious.

As for the Lydia backstory - disappointing.  Lydia didn't get any D so she stuck it to the kid's mom.  I hope that we find out later that the kid goes back and blames Lydia for taking him away from his mother. 

How I wished Natalie killed Lydia. 

[Kel Varnsen]

No wonder other countries are scared of Gilead's military, they have guns so powerful that if you get shot with one it can knock you into some crazy backflip.

Also when June was talking about the limited career choices for women in Gilead it made me wonder: when Gilead took over what happend to all the unmarried women who weren't qualified to be Aunts but too old to be handmaids? If only the ruling class has servants, they can't all be Martha's can they?

Also I find it kind of funny that there is a grown man in Gilead who has risen to the rank of commander but still goes by the name Andy. Unless Andy Richter is a commander.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Kel Varnsen

[AnswersWanted]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

No wonder other countries are scared of Gilead's military, they have guns so powerful that if you get shot with one it can knock you into some crazy backflip.

Also when June was talking about the limited career choices for women in Gilead it made me wonder: when Gilead took over what happend to all the unmarried women who weren't qualified to be Aunts but too old to be handmaids? If only the ruling class has servants, they can't all be Martha's can they?

Also I find it kind of funny that there is a grown man in Gilead who has risen to the rank of commander but still goes by the name Andy.

Well if we're applying canon to the show, those women, the ones who weren't chosen to be Marthas or Aunts, would either have been sent to Jezebel's to be sex trafficked to death, or they were declared Unwomen and shipped off to the colonies. 

The show highlighted that a bit in the episode where Lawrence takes June with him to look at a large group of enslaved women, destined for the colonies, and he allows June to pick 5 of them to become Marthas. 

The male leadership of Gilead has very little regard for females, they basically just want silent penis cozies or silent slaves that attend to their every whim.

Women aren't good for much else, even aunts serve a purpose solely to keep their walking wombs, aka their rape stock, well trained.

Edited July 16, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[Kel Varnsen]

14 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Well if we're applying canon to the show, those women, the ones who weren't chosen to be Marthas or Aunts, would either have been sent to Jezebel's to be sex trafficked to death, or they were declared Unwomen and shipped off to the colonies. 

Of course I underestimated the colonies. Although it seems like unmarried women who aren't Aunts/Handmaids or Martha's would be a pretty significant portuon of the population. If Gilead is actually at war with the US then liberating some colonies would seem like a great way to boost the population of anti-Gilead people.

I also thought it was interesting that Lydia said she was with someone before but it didn't work out. Any guesses on what that meant? Divorced or just dumped? 

Also any guesses on where her school was? I saw some map that showed the whole US and said land of the free and I thought I saw something that said Golden Gate.

Lastly I am really surprised that we don't see more outbursts like OfMatthew's. I mean we have only really seen her, Emily and the woman who blew up the handmaid centre do anything. But you would think with the trauma these women experience and how effective fighting back seems to be (she killed a guard with a pickle jar!) it would be happening all the time. 

[Umbelina]

49 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Lastly I am really surprised that we don't see more outbursts like OfMatthew's. I mean we have only really seen her, Emily and the woman who blew up the handmaid centre do anything. But you would think with the trauma these women experience and how effective fighting back seems to be (she killed a guard with a pickle jar!) it would be happening all the time. 

I really think that's where they are going with this.

Marthas, Handmaids, and hell, even the WIVES have "revolted" in various ways.  We know there are ongoing "wars' around the continental (former) USA as well, and the most hopeful sign I saw was earlier this season when that Martha was heading off to join the ground fighting war. 

The populace, or at least some of them, are revolting against this monstrous system.  Some have been in open revolt since this all began (that wonderful map shows quite a bit of territory

Spoiler

Gilead doesn't hold, or even have bases, including most of the coastlines and Canada.)

 That scene when the handmaids tell each other their real names was huge, because while it may not seem that much like defiance and revolt?  It most certainly was, and you can't build a sand dune without grains of sand.  The grains are there, and meeting up, and forming themselves into something formidable.

[AngelaHunter]

18 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

they have guns so powerful that if you get shot with one it can knock you into some crazy backflip.

More style over substance. People don't fly up into the air (in slo-mo, of course)and do some wacky acrobatics when shot, as though they're in the Matrix. They just drop like a sack of potatoes, but I guess that's not dramatic enough.

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I also thought it was interesting that Lydia said she was with someone before but it didn't work out.

Didn't she say she was married? I thought that's what she told Noelle. 

I did find it mildly interesting seeing how the handmaids are matched up with their rapist households. Also, the Aunts appear to be allowed alcohol. It looked like they were drinking sherry or somesuch. 

[endure]

June is either losing her mind or she is just becoming a real bitch, maybe even worse than Aunt Lydia.  I no longer have any empathy for her character and her facial expressions are over the top and she constantly acts entitled in almost every scene or encounter.  It is inconceivable that she has not been hung.

The other handmaids should at least put a stop to her bullying....maybe toss a few stones her way.

I think this role could actually hurt Elizabeth M’s career, I  know I probably won’t look forward to seeing her in anything again.

Edited July 16, 2019 by endure