S03 E05: Unknown Caller

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Quote

June and Serena grabble with a new revelation about Nichole, leading to an incident that will have far-reaching ramifications

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I am beyond annoyed that the show is punting all the atrociousness on Fred. 

Luke " Only her" in that Serena can come see the child but not Fred. 

Luke " What was your husband's role in it" Holly's conception when they were discussing Holly's story. As if Serena had nothing to with it

The real validating of Serena came when Luke allowed her to hold Holly. Invalidating every truthful thing he said to her minutes ago

Completing it all was a long scene of Serena breaking down accompanied by sorrowful music. 

DO YOU FEEL HER PAIN YET?

[AnswersWanted]

Okay...the fuck? 

Seriously, the fuck thought? 

Bradley did make me "teehee" with his line about Luke wearing his seatbelt or being conscious of high blood pressure as safety concerns. He is so good at playing these aloof, sarcastic characters. 

The music in this episode might have been the heaviest handed regarding the plot in some time, holy shit.

I am honestly surprised that when June found that functioning tapeplayer in the basement (such a lucky coincidence right?), that the pounding strains of "We're not gonna take it!" didn't come blasting out. 

Wow, Serena is a selfish turncoat of a witch, how shocking for June...ffs, this show man.

Does this show even remember how to end without a shot of a pissed off/raging June face acting like she's projecting to the back row? 

[rideashire]

Serena had a perfectly fine "goodbye" when she sent the baby off to Canada in the first place. Her continuing obsession reminds me of people who break up and then continue to stalk their ex's social media. There's no closure, she refuses to move on, it's ridiculous. If she wanted the baby with her so badly she never would have sent her away, but she did, accept it and stop stalking the poor girl. She's got that better life you wanted.

June asking for Serena to owe her...sure. Like that's actually going to work out in her favor. Doesn't she know by now she can't trust these people? 

No Emily was disappointing. 

I like Lawrence's wife, and I like him, too. I can't help it. 

[Umbelina]

That was just about a perfect episode!

The music tapes!  June finally recording!

I loved the scenes with Serena too, all of them.  Luke, for once, didn't annoy the hell out of me, I liked him!

The walking partner handmaid is not quite so devout as she seems, and she's thinking about the freedom of her own children.  June has a new possible buddy/co-conspirator. 

Spy guy is back!  Serena, you idiot, you ditched the guard, you should have stayed in Canada, and had your own baby.

I'm glad Luke knows the truth about Holly, that she is not Waterford's child.

I'm hoping the whole custody nonsense is a window into world debate, and more outside world politics.

Bite me.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Umbelina

[mamadrama]

I know that Serena is an accessory to rape. I know that she had a heavy hand in the formation of Gilead. I know that she's done some terrible, despicable things and should be punished for torture or whatever when this finally blows up. She should get whatever the handmaids have received: a missing eye, a missing clit, etc. But damn it, my dislike of June is growing so strong that I actually find myself rooting for Serena Joy. Damn it. 

[AnswersWanted]

19 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I am beyond annoyed that the show is punting all the atrociousness on Fred. 

Luke " Only her" in that Serena can come see the child but not Fred. 

Luke " What was your husband's role in it" Holly's conception when they were discussing Holly's story. As if Serena had nothing to with it

The real validating of Serena came when Luke allowed her to hold Holly. Invalidating every truthful thing he said to her minutes ago

Completing it all was a long scene of Serena breaking down accompanied by sorrowful music. 

DO YOU FEEL HER PAIN YET?

The way this show keeps trying to pull the “oh but the woe of poor Serena” act is frankly nauseating to me at this point.

And then they turn right back around and showcase her true, selfish and self serving nature in the next second. So what is the point exactly? We get it, she’s a multilayered person, she’s also a cold blooded monster guilty of countless murders and rapes, does she want a cookie? 

Just pick a side already, goddamn it, I am tired of Serena “Joy of Bipolar” Waterford.

This show wants so badly to have it both ways and it’s not working, it’s laughable even. 

I actually did think that Luke got wise to Serena towards the end there, when she muttered to him about “protecting June”. I think he took that as a not so subtle hint that taking the gift and letting her hold the baby would be beneficial for June. He was really trying to call her out but knew he had to be careful because he had no way of protecting June if he made her too angry. 

Though I too am tired of her not getting called out as being a rapist to her face. She is exactly the same as Fred and the others, it is a bullshit double standard in my eyes just because she doesn’t actually take part in penetrating the women, just holding them down and keeping them enslaved in sexual servitude, you know, as one does. 

17 minutes ago, rideashire said:

Serena had a perfectly fine "goodbye" when she sent the baby off to Canada in the first place. Her continuing obsession reminds me of people who break up and then continue to stalk their ex's social media. There's no closure, she refuses to move on, it's ridiculous. If she wanted the baby with her so badly she never would have sent her away, but she did, accept it and stop stalking the poor girl. She's got that better life you wanted.

June asking for Serena to owe her...sure. Like that's actually going to work out in her favor. Doesn't she know by now she can't trust these people? 

No Emily was disappointing. 

I like Lawrence's wife, and I like him, too. I can't help it. 

I agree with all of this.

Serena’s indecision is infuriating. It isn’t making her “complex” show, it’s making her annoying as hell.

I actually preferred her in season 1 when it was clear who she was and what she was all about. This wishy-washy weepy version is just a huge eye roll for me. 

I wish the Canada guy had just kidnapped her so we could get her off screen and be done with her already. Let her rot in prison or on some island, whatever, just get rid of her. 

June was really outclassed this episode and it wasn’t even hard to do.

She didn’t get Serena to force Fred to put something in writing, to get Lawrence to confirm his promise or due for a future favor, something? She basically told Serena she would owe her and took a “cool, k, thanks” in return basically? 

And now what leverage does she even have? She could have dangled a visit with Holly (I am going back to using her ‘real name’ as June told Luke) 

with a visit with Hannah, but she didn’t even do that? I mean, it was such a cheap and one sided deal, and June truly had no incentive to go along with it except “plot purposes”.

Now she’s not only compromised her power play with the Waterford’s, but she’s also brought Canada into this in having to decide if Holly’s status is worth risking a showdown with Gilead. 

Blessed be the dumbasses for theirs is the kingdom of this writers’ room. 

I was happy to see Moira for all of 20 seconds...definitely missed Emily though. 

[Umbelina]

Serena delivered the tape for June.  That was what the "owe" thing was.

People are complex, and I appreciate that this show isn't doing cookie cutter villains.  No one is perfect, and no one is completely evil.  Those things rarely exist in real life, so why should they exist on the show?

They do love their close ups though, and there were plenty to go around, Luke, Serena, Fred, June, hell even Holly got a few.

I wonder if Joseph and his wife are making progress back to some kind of relationship, listening to music together?

This idiotic custody battle could work as well.  At least we should see more politics, and hopefully, Canada will soon cease to be the only other country we know anything about.

[mamadrama]

10 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

The way this show keeps trying to pull the “oh but the woe of poor Serena” act is frankly nauseating to me at this point.

And then they turn right back around and showcase her true, selfish and self serving nature in the next second. So what is the point exactly? We get it, she’s a multilayered person, she’s also a cold blooded monster guilty of countless murders and rapes, does she want a cookie? 

Just pick a side already, goddamn it, I am tired of Serena “Joy of Bipolar” Waterford.

This show wants so badly to have it both ways and it’s not working, it’s laughable even. 

This is pissing me off. I'm not real happy with how they're portraying Fred, either. Sometimes he's a master manipulator, sometimes a bumbling fool. Sometimes it seems like he's actually trying to be helpful and caring towards June, other times it seems like he's just enjoying messing with her mind. I'm a writer, I get the point of having a well-rounded, complex character but sometimes this seems to go beyond that and is hovering right around poor, confused writing. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

54 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

That was just about a perfect episode!

The music tapes!  June finally recording!

I loved the scenes with Serena too, all of them.  Luke, for once, didn't annoy the hell out of me, I liked him!

The walking partner handmaid is not quite so devout as she seems, and she's thinking about the freedom of her own children.  June has a new possible buddy/co-conspirator. 

Spy guy is back!  Serena, you idiot, you ditched the guard, you should have stayed in Canada, and had your own baby.

I'm glad Luke knows the truth about Holly, that she is not Waterford's child.

I'm hoping the whole custody nonsense is a window into world debate, and more outside world politics.

Bite me.

This is one of the worst episodes of the series.

The pondering of Serena Joy was on steroids 

I also don't get any desire for this character to escape the hell she created to greener pastures. While she world she created to enslave and rape thousands of women chugs on

Edited June 19, 2019 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Umbelina]

52 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I am beyond annoyed that the show is punting all the atrociousness on Fred. 

Luke " Only her" in that Serena can come see the child but not Fred. 

Luke wants to kill June's rapist, so of course he wouldn't be willing to meet with him.  He knew he wouldn't be able to control himself.

He only allowed Serena to come because June begged him, and he gave her a bunch of hatred during that meeting.  Not agreeing could have put June in even more danger, or even get her killed.

He didn't have much of a choice there.

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

This was is one of the worst episodes of the series.

The pondering of Serena Joy was on steroids 

I also don't get any desire for this character to escape the hell she created to greener pastures. While she world she created to enslave and rape thousands of women chugs on

Unless they fast forward a decade or so, Gilead will continue to "chug on."   Book spoiler below.

Spoiler

June will need to escape or be sent to the colonies and then escape from there once her baby making days are over though.

Serena should want to get out though, for one main reason, she could probably have a baby of her own.  That was one thing I felt failed, Spy Guy should have dangled that again.  Why would he rush Serena back to the plane?  He had time to work on her, that Guardian wouldn't have known he meeting with Nicole didn't last longer.

Meanwhile, some table setting here, but I'm a bit hopeful and I do see forward progress this season...I just hope it pays off.

My happiest thing about this episode was that they broadcast that little "give us our daughter" bullshit to THE WORLD.

Hopefully that means we will hear from the WORLD about Gilead now.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Umbelina

[Brn2bwild]

If there's pressure on Luke to turn over Holly/Nichole to Gilead, I hope to hell he demands a DNA test for both Fred and the baby to prove she has zero Waterford DNA.  While Gilead would still claim she belongs to the Waterfords, Canadian officials might be more willing to resist if Holly/Nichole is proven to be not Fred's biological child.

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

If there's pressure on Luke to turn over Holly/Nichole to Gilead, I hope to hell he demands a DNA test for both Fred and the baby to prove she has zero Waterford DNA.  While Gilead would still claim she belongs to the Waterfords, Canadian officials might be more willing to resist if Holly/Nichole is proven to be not Fred's biological child.

Interesting, that may be why June sent the him the confession tape.

That would probably get June killed though.

I think (hope!) it's more that the broadcast to the world means world support for, and world pressure on Canada to stand up to Gilead.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

10 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Luke wants to kill June's rapist, so of course he wouldn't be willing to meet with him.  He knew he wouldn't be able to control himself.

He only allowed Serena to come because June begged him, and he gave her a bunch of hatred during that meeting.  Not agreeing could have put June in even more danger, or even get her killed.

He didn't have much of a choice there.

What is Serena to June?

She begged for the "Waterfords" Luke agreed to one of them. 

What makes Serena an exception. Better than Fred? 

[AnswersWanted]

5 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

This is pissing me off. I'm not real happy with how they're portraying Fred, either. Sometimes he's a master manipulator, sometimes a bumbling fool. Sometimes it seems like he's actually trying to be helpful and caring towards June, other times it seems like he's just enjoying messing with her mind. I'm a writer, I get the point of having a well-rounded, complex character but sometimes this seems to go beyond that and is hovering right around poor, confused writing. 

That is precisely my issue. I want to see clarity and actual purposeful thought and meaning brought out of these characters. 

The characters in the book had that in spades, now it’s like they’re nearly mere empty shells of themselves, imho.

I can deal with Fred and Serena not dying, yet, and I could potentially handle June staying in Gilead over escaping, but not with this weak stint of writing telling me “why? because reasons” at nearly every single damn turn. 

They are pushing a story they aren’t actually writing out very well and it falls apart for me. All the cracks are exposed and it’s not enjoyable. There’s little to no balance between who these characters are supposed to be and what it is that they’re supposed to want now.

Everyone is a crafty genius wonder kid one minute and then the next they seem to be idiots and easily manipulated, those aren’t the same characters we were introduced to. 

Maybe these are their tethered counterparts...

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

What is Serena to June?

She begged for the "Waterfords" Luke agreed to one of them. 

What makes Serena an exception. Better than Fred? 

He doesn't know the things Serena has done.  He does know that Waterford raped her repeatedly, and probably knows Waterford also took her to Jezebels (because Moira would have told him that's how she met up with June again.)

Serena's penis didn't enter his wife.  Luke's a fairly simple guy.

[AnswersWanted]

8 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

If there's pressure on Luke to turn over Holly/Nichole to Gilead, I hope to hell he demands a DNA test for both Fred and the baby to prove she has zero Waterford DNA.  While Gilead would still claim she belongs to the Waterfords, Canadian officials might be more willing to resist if Holly/Nichole is proven to be not Fred's biological child.

The potential ramifications for both June and Nick would be high though. I wonder how much longer until Nick pops back up on screen anyway, he’s really had no impact this season yet. 

Luke is really trapped in a no win situation though, his eldest daughter and June are both still at the mercy of Gilead, how does he choose in the end? Every choice will carry with it some life changing consequence he can be almost sure of that. 

I also thought O. T. crushed it this week. He finally got to act, and not like a brainless dweeb or a drunk asshole, but as a loving father and husband, I liked seeing that again. He was also really good with the baby, they looked so cozy and content in his arms. 

I do hope they start calling her ‘Holly’ from now on, she also needs to know she was named after her amazingly brave boss lady of a grandma. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

@Umbelina I don't get why you think Luke wouldn't know what Serena has done. He lives with Moira and there are all those letters. I find it hard to believe that the wives' role in the rituals and overall role in the sex slavery is unknown. 

Had June gone to Canada with Holly, all of this could be avoided. Fred would have no legs to stand on as the legal father. Even if June doesn't publicly let on that Fred is not the father, Canada won't reward custody of a child to the man that raped her mother. 

So this and any future  repercussions for Emily, is all June has accomplished with her stunt to remain 

[Umbelina]

16 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

@Umbelina I don't get why you think Luke wouldn't know what Serena has done. He lives with Moira and there are all those letters. I find it hard to believe that the wives' role in the rituals and overall role in the sex slavery is unknown. 

Had June gone to Canada with Holly, all of this could be avoided. Fred would have no legs to stand on as the legal father. Even if June doesn't publicly let on that Fred is not the father, Canada won't reward custody of a child to the man that raped her mother. 

So this and any future  repercussions for Emily, is all June has accomplished with her stunt to remain 

She wants to get Hannah out too.  She's working on doing that.

I meant that Luke doesn't know that Serena put June in solitary, or hit her, or told Fred to rape her while nearly 9 months pregnant.  He probably knows the "ceremony" routine by now though.

He also doesn't seem to get that Serena helped get Nicole out too, or that she has been helping June, but why would he?  No one knows all of that but June.  He did let Serena hold Nicole after she said she helped June.  Which?  She did.

Still, he would be angrier at the man.

How did June hurt Emily?  What?

Edited June 19, 2019 by Umbelina

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

6 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

She wants to get Hannah out too.  She's working on doing that.

I meant that Luke doesn't know that Serena put June in solitary, or hit her, or told Fred to rape her while nearly 9 months pregnant.  He probably knows the "ceremony" routine by now though.

He also doesn't seem to get that Serena helped get Nicole out too, or that she has been helping June, but why would he?  No one knows all of that but June.  He did let Serena hold Nicole after she said she helped June.  Which?  She did.

Still, he would be angrier at the man.

How did June hurt Emily?  What?

She didn't help June. She stopped standing in her way. That is not helping.

Many people helped June, Serena wasn't one of them.

Next you'll be saying Serena should be given credit for coercing June and Nick to have sex under her watchful eyes 

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

She didn't help June. She stopped standing in her way. That is not helping.

Many people helped June, Serena wasn't one of them.

Next you'll be saying Serena should be given credit for coercing June and Nick to have sex under her watchful eyes 

All Serena had to do was scream, and Nicole would have been in Gilead, and June would be hanging on a wall, along with the Marthas that helped her, because everyone breaks under torture.

She told June where Hannah goes to school as well.  She lied to the Guardians several times.  She arranged for June to sleep with Nick, basically admitting that Fred was sterile, and knowing that if June didn't get pregnant she was off to the colonies.

"Help" is a tricky word in the hell of Gilead. 

Serena is mostly a horrible person, but she has her moments.  The latest one?  She kept her word to June and passed on that tape to Luke.

This show, and this book, was not all villains and saints.  They don't exist in real life, or very very few do, and they don't exist here.

I like the layers.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Umbelina

[AgentRXS]

God, I wish this show would have ended last season. This is all so unbelievably stupid. It's really tiring to me.

The best thing about this episode was hearing "Sunday Bloody Sunday" at the end.

I just can't with the Waterford drama anymore. I hope it comes out somehow that the Waterfords were in on the kidnapping to begin with and June and the Waterfords all end up on the wall together. Every other character is more interesting to me. I'm over all of their shit. 

[VagueDisclaimer]

i deeply appreciate the commentary here, as elsewhere I’m finding all these blindsided fans, so shocked at Serena’s in character behavior

[AnswersWanted]

19 minutes ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

i deeply appreciate the commentary here, as elsewhere I’m finding all these blindsided fans, so shocked at Serena’s in character behavior

I found June's "shock" at Serena's betrayal just...I can't even manage the energy to feel tired about it. 

June, she who has seen the instability of Serena's moods swings and behavior up close and personal. She who has been on the receiving end of Serena's coldness and her blood thirsty drive to do whatever it takes to get what she wants, and damn anyone who stands in her way.

Yet still someone could have knocked poor, naive, June over with a cattle prod as she was forced to stand humbled and subjugated by the side of her "ally" while a call was put forth which basically placed a bullseye on the backs of her husband and baby. 

The show seems to find it so thrilling when they pull shit like this. As if playing the most annoying, not to mention predictable "gotcha!" game on earth. 

June should have been preparing for a double cross at every turn. 

She is the one, after all, wno pushed them both hard towards reconciliation, so why try and play June as being dumb enough to be caught off guard and left floored and fuming when her band of rapists team up together again to double cross her?

These are the same two people who attempted to rape Holly out of her, did she really think they have some line or limit they just won't cross to get their way at this point...?

I really just can't.

This sort of brianlessness wouldn't even make sense for season 1's June, she was a lot more nervous, distrustful, and skeptical back then even.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

All Serena had to do was scream, and Nicole would have been in Gilead, and June would be hanging on a wall, along with the Marthas that helped her, because everyone breaks under torture.

She told June where Hannah goes to school as well.  She lied to the Guardians several times.  She arranged for June to sleep with Nick, basically admitting that Fred was sterile, and knowing that if June didn't get pregnant she was off to the colonies.

"Help" is a tricky word in the hell of Gilead. 

Serena is mostly a horrible person, but she has her moments.  The latest one?  She kept her word to June and passed on that tape to Luke.

This show, and this book, was not all villains and saints.  They don't exist in real life, or very very few do, and they don't exist here.

I like the layers.

You went there.

A villain who stops being a villain 1 out of 10 times is still a villain. And yes, they are plentiful in real life.

Fred also took June to see Hannah, let her read and gave her a new dress. 

Where is the parade being held

[ferjy]

2 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

The potential ramifications for both June and Nick would be high though. I wonder how much longer until Nick pops back up on screen anyway, he’s really had no impact this season yet. 

Luke is really trapped in a no win situation though, his eldest daughter and June are both still at the mercy of Gilead, how does he choose in the end? Every choice will carry with it some life changing consequence he can be almost sure of that. 

I also thought O. T. crushed it this week. He finally got to act, and not like a brainless dweeb or a drunk asshole, but as a loving father and husband, I liked seeing that again. He was also really good with the baby, they looked so cozy and content in his arms. 

I do hope they start calling her ‘Holly’ from now on, she also needs to know she was named after her amazingly brave boss lady of a grandma. 

I know, eh? Finally, some decent lines for him. Although a bit of the old Luke was good tonight too:

Serena: “God bless you.”

Luke: “Fuck you.” 

Praise be.

[AnswersWanted]

24 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Fred also took June to see Hannah, let her read and gave her a new dress. 

Where is the parade being held

Okay, now I want a heated conversation between Fred and Serena arguing about who has done more for June. 

Kind of like their meltdown argument during season 2. 

Fred: I took her to Jezebel's and gave her drinks! With REAL alcohol too! 

Serena: Yawn! I gave her a cigarette!  

Fred: I let her play scrabble!

Serena: Well I passed her secretly recorded tape to her husband in Canada!

Fred: ...wait...what?

Serena: Nevermind! I also gave her my ballerina music box!

Fred: Ughh, you are always going on about that damn box!

16 minutes ago, ferjy said:

I know, eh? Finally, some decent lines for him. Although a bit of the old Luke was good tonight too:

Serena: “God bless you.”

Luke: “Fuck you.” 

Praise be.

Blessed be he who is not of the bullshit. Amen.

Edited June 19, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[CatWarmer]

Of course Serena isn't trustworthy, June you idiot.  I am a little confused how Serena got the package to Luke since I thought she still had it on the return plane trip.  Was it in the jewelry box?  They each seemed to have part of the wrapping paper.

I don't think the Waterfords quite thought through their propaganda video.  Luke can easily do one in response:  you kidnapped my wife and tortured and raped her, and you kidnapped my daughter and gave her to strangers.  Is there some reason Canada doesn't want the true situation revealed?  If Family Values Gilead wants Nichole back, they better be prepared to trade for June and Holly.   But move fast Luke, you don't want the Waterfords' spin to sit out there too long on its own without rebuttal.

[ferjy]

How much time has passed? Last week Aunt Lydia was sat in a wheelchair, barely able to take a few steps. Today she was on her feet all but flouncing around the Waterford house gleefully dressing June like a Barbie doll. 

[Armchair Critic]

At first I thought they were going to kidnap Nichole when they set up the meeting with Luke. I figured the Waterfords were not going to give up on Nichole so this didn't surprise me too much unfortunately.

[AnswersWanted]

Thinking back on it, I actually really loved Luke taking charge of the meeting with Serena, moving the meeting location and also having her change outfits. 

Since he knew he wouldn't have to put up with any bullshit from Fred, he knew he could manipulate things in his favor.

Perhaps I'm giving too much credit to the writers, but I'd like to think that Luke intentually didn't want to have to look at Serena while in her Gilead wives' attire, being reminded of where his wife is still helplessly trapped, and the outfit she is forced to wear and what it stands for, what it signifies for June's "purpose". 

Luke getting to exert some control over the situation actually made it a little easier to get through for me. It was clear how badly he wanted to tear into Serena, his pacing back and forth was like that of someone eager to unleash hell upon something or someone. 

[ferjy]

3 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

This is one of the worst episodes of the series.

The pondering of Serena Joy was on steroids 

I also don't get any desire for this character to escape the hell she created to greener pastures. While she world she created to enslave and rape thousands of women chugs on

I don’t get the Serena Joy joy either. That rattling plane sounded like it was on its last legs. I was hoping for a major malfunction. May the Lord open (the airplane door).

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

6 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

Thinking back on it, I actually really loved Luke taking charge of the meeting with Serena, moving the meeting location and also having her change outfits. 

Since he knew he wouldn't have to put up with any bullshit from Fred, he knew he could manipulate things in his favor.

Perhaps I'm giving too much credit to the writers, but I'd like to think that Luke intentually didn't want to have to look at Serena while in her Gilead wives' attire, being reminded of where his wife is still helplessly trapped, and the outfit she is forced to wear and what it stands for, what it signifies for June's "purpose". 

Luke getting to exert some control over the situation actually made it a little easier to get through for me. It was clear how badly he wanted to tear into Serena, his pacing back and forth was like that of someone eager to unleash hell upon something or someone. 

All of this is why I was livid that he allowed her to hold Holly.

That move, the relenting, invalidated everything that proceeded, I felt like.

[Anela]

2 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

God, I wish this show would have ended last season. This is all so unbelievably stupid. It's really tiring to me.

The best thing about this episode was hearing "Sunday Bloody Sunday" at the end.

I just can't with the Waterford drama anymore. I hope it comes out somehow that the Waterfords were in on the kidnapping to begin with and June and the Waterfords all end up on the wall together. Every other character is more interesting to me. I'm over all of their shit. 

I don't want June to end up there, but seriously, if they're looking for "shocking moments" to end an episode with, that would be one. 

2 hours ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

i deeply appreciate the commentary here, as elsewhere I’m finding all these blindsided fans, so shocked at Serena’s in character behavior

This cracked me up.

I haven't watched, I might, I'm not sure. But she does it every time, I don't understand why they write June as being so naive. In the first episode, when she was talking to the "mother" of Hannah, and getting closer to her, I kept thinking, "Watch yourself!" just because I expect them to be lash out, verbally and physically. They have every right to, in Gilead. 

[AnswersWanted]

10 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

All of this is why I was livid that he allowed her to hold Holly.

That move, the relenting, invalidated everything that proceeded, I felt like.

I assumed he did so because the meeting was ending on a not so great note, and he saw Serena was getting agitated. 

He even asked her why she had even wanted the meetup to happen since she knew there was no way she'd be leaving with Holly. 

I think Luke tried to placate Serena because she still has access to June, could he risk pissing her off if that meant something terrible might happen to June? 

Luke was playing it by ear as best he could, here was one of his most hated enemies and yet he has to "play nice" for June's sake, so he checked his anger for her sake.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I really thought the visit was just a ploy for the Waterfords to steal Nicole back and/or have Luke arrested for kidnapping. I couldn't believe that Fred was being so passive and constantly demurring to Serena. This is the guy who had her finger chopped off and now he's like "whatever you want, dear."

When it seemed like Serena wasn't actually there to snatch the baby back, I thought the gift she had for Nicole had a tracking device so that they could send someone to kidnap Nicole and bring her back to Gilead. Obviously I watch the kind of shows that make me paranoid as fuck since none of that happened.

Usually Luke annoys me but I loved his nonstop side eye with Serena. I'm glad someone in that family has Serena's number, unlike June who foolishly continues to trust Serena.

And Serena, gawd, what a selfish idiot. She agree to send Nicole to Canada so that this innocent little girl wouldn't grow up oppressed and restricted, but now she's back to "I need my baby!" But hey, if getting to see your daughter grow up before your very eyes is worth knowing that she won't be allowed to read or vote or have a say in who she marries or when she can have sex, great!

[alexvillage]

4 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I'm a writer, I get the point of having a well-rounded, complex character but sometimes this seems to go beyond that and is hovering right around poor, confused writing. 

You nailed it. Instead of complexity they are getting confused, and annoying because we keep seeing the same mistakes/actions/reactions over and over. June could have become a complex character, but they made her into a super hero. Serena was a complex character and now she just walks around grieving and playing everyone's victim. Fred was a jerk, are they trying to make him a complex character? And then he becomes the un-commander. We can go on with almost every character in the show. Then they have Emily's story, which in itself is full of complexities, and the writers  don't seem to care about it that much.

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Interesting, that may be why June sent the him the confession tape.

That would probably get June killed though.

I am all for it. Give us another handmaid to tell the tale.

[dmc]

I don’t know how women keep getting the opportunity to leave Gilead and go back...seriously WTF 

serena what are you thinking

Also that baby has no connection to Fred or Serena...

And Luke when your wife is a prisoner why bring your stolen baby to a public protest ??? 

This show makes me so angry 

[maggiegil]

I wondered about the choice to have June in the video, showing the woman you raped seething in the back seems like a bad choice to present to the world.

As June and Luke are married, legally Holly is considered to be his child. It would be up to the Waterfords to prove in court that she is not his via a paternity test which obviously would make trouble for June and if it goes that way it will be interesting to see what Luke does now he knows that Nick is the Father instead.

June's walking partner must be the most fertile handmaid in Gilead. I'm really interested to hear more about her story, she seems like she has Stockholm Syndrome, I wonder what "offense" had her relegated to handmaid in the first place.

I'm presuming we're getting a Nick-centric episode this season focusing on Chicago maybe thats when we'll find out about the wider world

Did anyone else notice that the cargo plane was full of goods on the way back, does that mean Canada is still trading with Gilead?

Edited June 19, 2019 by maggiegil

[SDVegas]

6 hours ago, ferjy said:

How much time has passed? Last week Aunt Lydia was sat in a wheelchair, barely able to take a few steps. Today she was on her feet all but flouncing around the Waterford house gleefully dressing June like a Barbie doll. 

The Waterford house burned down. They were in a fake room.

[LordOfLotion]

I wonder how many of those people at the big commander meeting were missing body parts.

I regret looking forward to Bradley Whitford having an expanded role. Clearly he is just a glorified guest star and we're never going to get beyond the Waterfords pissing on June. 

These close-ups on June's face with the dumb rage-ey expressions are completely meaningless now. And the way they did it during the propaganda video like that is kind of breaking the fourth wall and what little immersion I had left was totally gone.

I would like to see a plot thread about Canada Man and what he does, but I'm not going to get it. I need to go binge a season of Burn Notice.

[wirebitersm]

Can the Waterfords really just choose to leave the baby in Canada though? Like what is Serena supposed to tell the council? No, I don’t want my baby? They could save face before the whole Gilead leadership knew where she was. But now? I feel like there is only one way for this to go for them. 

[AgentRXS]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And Serena, gawd, what a selfish idiot. She agree to send Nicole to Canada so that this innocent little girl wouldn't grow up oppressed and restricted, but now she's back to "I need my baby!" But hey, if getting to see your daughter grow up before your very eyes is worth knowing that she won't be allowed to read or vote or have a say in who she marries or when she can have sex, great! 

This what bugs the most. All Serena has to do to remind herself of why she sent Nicole to Canada is look down at her finger. Is that the life she wants for a daughter?. Also, its not like there isn't a plethora of Handmaids to choose from to give her another baby, perhaps a boy child this time. None of this makes any damn sense.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Serena choice was made in an incapacitated state. She's shown since she sobered up that it was a moment of weakness. Remember that screaming in June's face and walking around like a zombie since?

No, Serena's "choice" wasn't a choice at all. It was someone who was caught in a moment of weakness 

[greekmom]

4 hours ago, dmc said:

And Luke when your wife is a prisoner why bring your stolen baby to a public protest ??? 

Plot contrivance maybe?  I can't see any other reason for it except for a way for Serena to go see Luke and Luke get the tape.

2 hours ago, maggiegil said:

As June and Luke are married, legally Holly is considered to be his child. It would be up to the Waterfords to prove in court that she is not his via a paternity test which obviously would make trouble for June and if it goes that way it will be interesting to see what Luke does now he knows that Nick is the Father instead.

Did anyone else notice that the cargo plane was full of goods on the way back, does that mean Canada is still trading with Gilead?

In regards to Holly - I am hoping Canada takes on a Switzerland role.  They already strayed so far from the original book that it is plausible. 

In regards to the cargo, even the States who has had an embargo with Cuba still does some trading.  It's very restrictive but it's still there.  I'm thinking that maybe there could be the same thing with Canada and Gilead. 

[gesundheit]

57 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

This what bugs the most. All Serena has to do to remind herself of why she sent Nicole to Canada is look down at her finger. Is that the life she wants for a daughter?. Also, its not like there isn't a plethora of Handmaids to choose from to give her another baby, perhaps a boy child this time. None of this makes any damn sense.

Well, not really -- she knows Fred is sterile and she can't exactly create the same circumstances as Holly's conception.

I guess if she's lucky Holly, too, can have a fancy fake finger after hers gets cut off for being naughty!

[rubinia]

Big shocker, Serena didn't live up to her word to June. That's never happened before!

If I were Luke I would've taken that locket from Serena and thrown it into the garbage in front of her. Serena can go DIAF.

[rubinia]

7 hours ago, ferjy said:

I don’t get the Serena Joy joy either. That rattling plane sounded like it was on its last legs. I was hoping for a major malfunction. May the Lord open (the airplane door).

I had a moment of excitement when I thought SJ was glancing at the airplane door and thought she might throw herself out...

[LordOfLotion]

2 minutes ago, rubinia said:

Big shocker, Serena didn't live up to her word to June. That's never happened before!

If I were Luke I would've taken that locket from Serena and thrown it into the garbage in front of her. Serena can go DIAF.

Yeah, about that locket. I would smash that thing with a hammer and dump it in the trash in another province. Too often gifts like that from totalitarian regimes come with bonus gifts like trackers and listening devices. Come to think of it I would burn anything Serena got close to.