Season 21 Live Feed Discussion

[Brian Cronin]

I can't believe we're just going to get an extra week of the three of them, just chilling out. Man, Holly and Jackson will be having soooo much celebratory sex. 

[Ellee]

1 hour ago, Brian Cronin said:

I can't believe we're just going to get an extra week of the three of them, just chilling out. Man, Holly and Jackson will be having soooo much celebratory sex. 

Poor Nicole. 

Hope the DR has her come in most of the day, every day to retain her sanity.  Or plan something for her alone that she would enjoy whether that be past HGs, a call from/to her family.  And require the other two to stay in whatever bed they are currently in.  

Fair? Unfair? Don’t care.  JMO. 

ETA:  Give Jackson a watermelon shaped urinal.  He can sell that too when this is over.  He’s earned it  🙄

Edited September 15, 2019 by Ellee

[Brian Cronin]

They're definitely going to have to get creative to come up with content to fill up an extra week of nonsense.

[Ellee]

25 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

They're definitely going to have to get creative to come up with content to fill up an extra week of nonsense.

Nah. They’ll just put more cameras in the jury house so that I can be even more repulsed by Jack, give a few others a chance to redeem themselves. You know... so we love them, really really love them. 

ETA.  Anyone picture Sally Fields there?  Get at least a bit of a smile?

Edited September 15, 2019 by Ellee

[Brian Cronin]

A whole episode mostly spotlighting the jury would actually be well appreciated.

[Ellee]

I really don’t think they have much choice. Do you?  It’s been asked for forever. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Ellee

[Brian Cronin]

I don't even get how Cliff can even argue loyalty (if he does, that is) when he and Nicole made Holly promise to throw HoH AND Veto for them not to betray her. How does that make any sense? 

They had a deal with Holly and Jackson and they went back on it to negotiate more stuff to help their game, so clearly, loyalty only goes so far with them. Not to mention that it's awfully easy to be loyal to the guy who keeps winning competitions. 

Cliff's played a bottom feeder game the whole season and this is typically what happens to bottom feeders when it gets to the last few weeks. It's why I'm not too impressed by bottom feeder games, since they're typically only good for getting you to jury. If that (and AFP) is what you're shooting for, then fair enough, I guess.

Now, if he had played a RAT game, he'd be in a better position, as Tommy would be in the house right now and Jackson would be voting Tommy out, not Cliff. 

[phlebas]

Huh. Maybe they should have kept Tommy.

[Thalia]

Damn, I just hate to think that a vile user like Jackson is going to have $500,000  (thank goodness for US and California taxes) to further smooth out life's highway for him.  Apart from the money, he'll be able to capitalize and benefit from whatever passes for fame in the BB universe.  But he deserves to win.  Jackson not only won competitions, he managed to reset his social game once he realized the BB masses weren't as enthralled with his macho bullying as Jack and Holly.  

It would be nice to assume he'll be somewhat embarrassed when people he's never met make watermelon jokes.  But surely everyone he's ever met in RL has already made fun of him for that charming affectation.  

BTW, his hometown is just outside Nashville.  IMHO, off-season watermelons suck around here.  Absolutely no flavor.  He must hate September through May.  

[Ellee]

Jackson's way of telling Cliff beforehand:

[Brian Cronin]

As we get closer to the end, I am reminded of how much I hated Scottie's vote for Kaycee last year. Fuck that guy. He's the epitome of "If I do it, it's just a game. If it's done to me, it's personal."

There were people who logically should have voted against Tyler and Tyler clearly took them into account. He should have done better getting a wooable person like Sam to vote for him, but otherwise, he knew who he had and who he was never going to get and he still should have won, but that dick Scottie voted differently than how he had given off every indication of how he would be voting. 

I don't mind "bitter" jurors, as no one is owed your vote, but what we are "owed" is you being consistent about your shit and Scottie wasn't.

[peachmangosteen]

Meanwhile, I'm like, "Thank you, Scottie!" for that lol.

8 hours ago, BK1978 said:

One more, nobody in their right mind said Cowboy would win and well that is exactly what happened.

4 hours ago, Vixenstud said:

I don't remember who won the half million his season but I do know it wasn't Cowboy.

Drew won.

Super pumped Jackson won veto. Bye, Cliff! You are an idiot and creepy and fake and a little bit racist and I will be happy to see you booted. I can't wait to watch Jackson tell him!

Now, onto manifesting Nicole winning final HOH and then taking Holly to F2 with her.

[Growsonwalls]

2 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

As we get closer to the end, I am reminded of how much I hated Scottie's vote for Kaycee last year. Fuck that guy. He's the epitome of "If I do it, it's just a game. If it's done to me, it's personal."

There were people who logically should have voted against Tyler and Tyler clearly took them into account. He should have done better getting a wooable person like Sam to vote for him, but otherwise, he knew who he had and who he was never going to get and he still should have won, but that dick Scottie voted differently than how he had given off every indication of how he would be voting. 

I don't mind "bitter" jurors, as no one is owed your vote, but what we are "owed" is you being consistent about your shit and Scottie wasn't.

Both Scottie and Sam were rather damaged, needy people. Tyler at first was very good at coddling them. But after he hooked up with Angela, he just spent all day in the HoH bed with her and stopped talking to them. That one i blame 100% on Tyler.

[Brian Cronin]

2 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Both Scottie and Sam were rather damaged, needy people. Tyler at first was very good at coddling them. But after he hooked up with Angela, he just spent all day in the HoH bed with her and stopped talking to them. That one i blame 100% on Tyler.

That's totally fair with Sam. I absolutely agree with that about Sam, but I don't think the same was true for Scottie. He just decided to take shit personally despite saying he wouldn't take shit personally. 

4 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Meanwhile, I'm like, "Thank you, Scottie!" for that lol.

Ha! I don't mind the result. I liked Kaycee a lot, so I was fine with her winning. I just hated Scottie voting for her. Had, say, Haleigh voted for her and she would have won 5-4, I would have been fine with that. Scottie being the deciding vote is what irked me. 

[Brian Cronin]

13 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Drew won.

I believe @BK1978's point was that that was one of the instances where we all thought something would happen (Cowboy losing) and it actually DID happen. 

I disagree, by the way, that we all thought Tyler would definitely win. It was clearly going to be a close call either way between him and Kaycee. If he won, it would have been a 5-4 deal. 

Paul, though, yeah, I thought he had a chance of losing in BB19, but not a good one. BB18, I thought he had for sure. And Vanessa, we all thought would have won had she made it, which was true - Steve just beat her out before that point. I don't think any of us believed that Steve would take her, so that wasn't a shocker. Him beating her for the final HoH was a BIT of a surprise, I guess, but not THAT big of a surprise. Steve had three HoHs to Vanessa's four at the time of the Final HoH.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Brian Cronin

[kellog010]

Cliff has no one else to blame but himself for this situation. This sounds mean, but I hope he loses AFP as well because of how dumb he was and now forcing Nicole into a have to win situation to even make it to the end. 

[Growsonwalls]

I knew Paul lost BB19 when he told Alex she was getting sent out the door. Alex said "I trusted you 100% all summer and did whatever you asked me to do." Paul explained some more, and finally Alex said "Ok I get it it's cool let's not talk about it anymore."

A person with more EQ would have simply given Alex some space to say goodbye to her own game. Instead Paul started immediately hankering Alex for hers and Jason's jury votes. She became more and more withdrawn and said less and less. But I could just tell that Paul lost her and Jason's jury votes that moment.

[Brian Cronin]

14 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I knew Paul lost BB19 when he told Alex she was getting sent out the door. Alex said "I trusted you 100% all summer and did whatever you asked me to do." Paul explained some more, and finally Alex said "Ok I get it it's cool let's not talk about it anymore."

A person with more EQ would have simply given Alex some space to say goodbye to her own game. Instead Paul started immediately hankering Alex for hers and Jason's jury votes. She became more and more withdrawn and said less and less. But I could just tell that Paul lost her and Jason's jury votes that moment.

Yeah, I was looking back at the old BB19 thread and his handling of Alex was precisely the spot where I said, "Logically, this should be enough for him to lose, as Alex logically should not vote for him."

I just didn't think she'd actually be logical. 🙂

[Growsonwalls]

49 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

That's totally fair with Sam. I absolutely agree with that about Sam, but I don't think the same was true for Scottie. He just decided to take shit personally despite saying he wouldn't take shit personally. 

Ha! I don't mind the result. I liked Kaycee a lot, so I was fine with her winning. I just hated Scottie voting for her. Had, say, Haleigh voted for her and she would have won 5-4, I would have been fine with that. Scottie being the deciding vote is what irked me. 

I think Haleigh said later that she was going to vote for Kaycee but the producers wanted her to make it a 5-4 vote??? Can't remember where I read that. 

[LGGirl]

1 hour ago, phlebas said:

Huh. Maybe they should have kept Tommy.

Well, if they did, he would have been fighting for the veto. Not sure I could say the same about Cliff. 

Cliff has not only sunk his game but Nichole’s as well.   Let that sink into his thick, delusional  skull. 

[Lady Calypso]

52 minutes ago, LGGirl said:

Well, if they did, he would have been fighting for the veto. Not sure I could say the same about Cliff. 

Cliff has not only sunk his game but Nichole’s as well.   Let that sink into his thick, delusional  skull. 

I can admit that Nicole has made her own mistakes. If she does end up losing, the moment I can pinpoint to her losing would be not pushing hard enough for evicting Holly instead of Tommy. Despite the fact that Tommy had a better chance to win the game...now I'm starting to fear the worst: that Nicole could lose...to HOLLY. 

However, Cliff STILL completely destroyed his game to try to have his cake and eat it too (choosing Jackson over Holly, an easier win for him, AND getting too greedy in trying to formulate a scenario with him making F2). As we can see, Cliff's attempt to make sure he got F2 utterly backfired. What Cliff did was something he hoped would pay off...but hasn't. But what he also did was make it incredibly difficult for Nicole to win the game as well. By throwing her under the bus multiple times to Jackson/Holly while simultaneously convincing Nicole that his way was the right way, what he did was ensure a Jackson win. Even when knowing that Jackson was a competition beast, coupled with the unfortunate fact that F4 veto was more physical, Cliff....screwed up.

And he should have seen it coming. I don't like to say that, because I was the one saying last week that none of the outcome could be predicted until after the choice was made, but we know Cliff underestimated Jackson's ability to play this game well. He was so scared of Tommy that he was blinded by the other really big threat: Jackson. Cliff hoped that him getting to F4 would be enough to get him to F2. What Cliff did was take the wrong risk. I understand he couldn't have known before...so I'm not going to criticize him on the choices he thought were right.

Instead, I'll criticize him on deciding that Jackson would be a better person to work with closely....while keeping Holly in the game. Like, if you want to work with Jackson and get him to take you to F2, maybe get rid of his closest ally first? Just a thought.

[missyb]

Nicole gets it !!! 

[LGGirl]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

If she does end up losing, the moment I can pinpoint to her losing would be not pushing hard enough for evicting Holly instead of Tommy.

I think she did.  You could see on her face during the eviction.  Cliff wouldn’t budge.  There was nothing she could do.  

I pin point her loss at not getting rid of Jackson at double eviction.   I knew he needed to go then or he would have won his way to the end.  

[Callaphera]

9 hours ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

WE'RE TWINS SO YOU BETTER NOT.

BUT I'M THE EVIL TWIN. IT'S PART OF MY JOB DESCRIPTION.

[HurricaneVal]

Is Nicole wearing that Care Bear onesie by choice, or did she get a punishment in a comp?  It's Nicole, so it could go either way...

[Alice Mudgarden]

5 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

BUT I'M THE EVIL TWIN. IT'S PART OF MY JOB DESCRIPTION.

I KNEW YOU'D SAY THAT, BECAUSE WE'RE TWINICALLY LINKED.

[Growsonwalls]

1 minute ago, HurricaneVal said:

Is Nicole wearing that Care Bear onesie by choice, or did she get a punishment in a comp?  It's Nicole, so it could go either way...

It was in her HoH package. Her mom sent it to her.

[Brian Cronin]

This might be unfair of me, but I'm also not feeling the "I will feel guilty if Holly goes home, because she could have won that HoH and gotten safety." If you're seriously guilty about that, then you got some issues. 

[Melina22]

29 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

now I'm starting to fear the worst: that Nicole could lose...to HOLLY. 

Noooooo! I just realized this is my worst case scenario! I'm actually starting to feel anxious about the upcoming week. Usually I don't care who wins. I'm starting to wish I could feel that pleasant apathy right now. 

This is going to be a nail-biter. (Be careful what you wish for, I guess.) 

[missyb]

12 minutes ago, Figster said:

Her weak will and lack of any  effective strategy leads her to listen to others for her marching orders.

Sounds more like Holly than Nicole. Holly has done nothing but listen and obey Jacksons directives all season.

[Lady Calypso]

17 minutes ago, Figster said:

And this is why Nicole is a horrible BB player. She can't convince anyone of anything.  Her weak will and lack of any  effective strategy leads her to listen to others for her marching orders.

Her loss is her own fault entirely; she's not a victim here.

I love Nicole, and I think she's had a lot of potential, but I agree. What happened during week 3 clearly affected the way that she's played since. She's gotten worse as a Big Brother player. She's wicked smart, has excellent reads, and can seem to do well under pressure (DE is proof of that) but the problem is asserting herself where it's necessary and pushing her agenda. 

I'm still rooting for Nicole to get to F2, no doubt. She's still someone I very much enjoy watching. She's a really good person; just not a good player. But what's worse is that, unlike someone like Jess, Analyse, or even Bella, who could never grasp the idea of Big Brother and never could ever become a good player no matter how hard they could have tried, Nicole....really could have. Nicole has shown that she's quite capable of being a better player. 

[Tuxcat]

9 minutes ago, missyb said:

Sounds more like Holly than Nicole. Holly has done nothing but listen and obey Jacksons directives all season.

The worst is that Nicole actually does get it but has continued to bow to Cliff. As she said " I don't care about me in the F3, I want Cliff and Nicole in the F3." Her allegiance to Cliff is her problem. 

[mikewho]

On 9/13/2019 at 7:25 PM, missyb said:

On 9/13/2019 at 7:23 PM, Gemma Violet said:

Wasn't it Jackson who berated Nicole for putting her water bottle in the fridge or something?  I may be remembering wrong.

It was Jack berating Kemi in front of the refrigerator. Nicole was there too.

As far as I recall, he made such a big deal out of it, that makes it sound as if it was the solution to a game of Clue.

'It was Jack in the Kitchen with the Refrigerator'.

Edited September 15, 2019 by mikewho

[Ellee]

13 minutes ago, missyb said:

Sounds more like Holly than Nicole. Holly has done nothing but listen and obey Jacksons directives all season.

... and sleep with him. 🙄

[Ellee]

5 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

The worst is that Nicole actually does get it but has continued to bow to Cliff. As she said " I don't care about me in the F3, I want Cliff and Nicole in the F3." Her allegiance to Cliff is her problem. 

Just a guess here, but I would imagine that that has more to do with Cliff being there for her throught the beginning bs that she went through.  Pretty sure she'd be second guessing herself the same way if she was with Kemi or Ovi. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, Tuxcat said:

The worst is that Nicole actually does get it but has continued to bow to Cliff. As she said " I don't care about me in the F3, I want Cliff and Nicole in the F3." Her allegiance to Cliff is her problem. 

It's funny how opposite Cliff and Nicole are with their gameplay.

While Nicole wants to do whatever she can to get her and Cliff both to F3 together, often to the detriment of her own game, Cliff has no problem being selfish and throw her under the bus at whatever cost to get to F2, no matter who he sits next to. 

I wish I could tell Nicole that Cliff hasn't been as loyal of an ally as she wants him to be. Nicole never had a loyal ally, which is really sad. Nobody really grew to trust her, besides maybe Kemi, who went out so early. 

And that's what has been Nicole's downfall; nobody liked her enough to work closely with her. Cliff....has done some stuff, but only because he knows that he's needed her since his eviction. These people have all just used Nicole and....god, that's probably what makes this so frustrating as a Nicole fan. Kemi and Ovi are the only two who were really there for Nicole as genuine friends. 

[Tuxcat]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's funny how opposite Cliff and Nicole are with their gameplay.

While Nicole wants to do whatever she can to get her and Cliff both to F3 together, often to the detriment of her own game, Cliff has no problem being selfish and throw her under the bus at whatever cost to get to F2, no matter who he sits next to. 

I wish I could tell Nicole that Cliff hasn't been as loyal of an ally as she wants him to be. Nicole never had a loyal ally, which is really sad. Nobody really grew to trust her, besides maybe Kemi, who went out so early. 

And that's what has been Nicole's downfall; nobody liked her enough to work closely with her. Cliff....has done some stuff, but only because he knows that he's needed her since his eviction. These people have all just used Nicole and....god, that's probably what makes this so frustrating as a Nicole fan. Kemi and Ovi are the only two who were really there for Nicole as genuine friends. 

I agree 1000 percent!!! 😉

[Lamima]

10 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

The worst is that Nicole actually does get it but has continued to bow to Cliff. As she said " I don't care about me in the F3, I want Cliff and Nicole in the F3." Her allegiance to Cliff is her problem. 

This is why I was so bugged by Cliff throwing her under the bus to Jackson. Cliff really was Nicole's ride or die and Nicole should have been Cliff's. They should have been working together 1000% like a well oiled machine and Cliff was just working for himself at every turn.

[Growsonwalls]

I think Nicole played this game at the wrong time in her life. Yes she's 24 which isn't technically THAT young as a BB player (there have been younger winners) but it's clear that she's had a very sheltered life. She and Jackson are the same age, yet Jackson has been in and out of legal and personal troubles. He's developed those spidey senses and ruthlessness. Nicole's mom sends her unicorns and onesie pajamas in her gift basket. 

Nicole has good reads on people, she has a sweet personality that makes people want to keep her around, and she's not bad at competitions. She's just not mature enough to see Cliff's manipulation of her this past week for what it was, and wasn't quick-thinking enough to see that Jackson and Holly are a much bigger threat than Tommy and Christie. 

Then again this was her dream to go on BB and she's gotten farther than many people who started off much stronger. 

[Lady Calypso]

6 minutes ago, Lamima said:

This is why I was so bugged by Cliff throwing her under the bus to Jackson. Cliff really was Nicole's ride or die and Nicole should have been Cliff's. They should have been working together 1000% like a well oiled machine and Cliff was just working for himself at every turn.

And I understand that it's the game and Cliff is playing for himself, not Nicole. And I get Cliff has his own struggles as an older person in the game who typically doesn't get very far (and, surprise, he's still going out fourth!) but how Cliff has handled things this season still hasn't sat well with me. He's so casual in throwing her under the bus, despite the fact that he knows that she's the one getting him farther with these more physical competitions. But him throwing her under the bus, although smart since this is an individual game, just continues to prove how Nicole has had no real allies. 

I can admit that Cliff is doing what he can to win. He's tried and he's not a despicable person for that. But it's just his ability to be so nice to Nicole and say that he wants to go to F2 at whatever cost with her, to turning around and throwing her under the bus to Jackson and wanting a competitive beast in F3 with them that just....really doesn't sit well with me. It really puts a sour taste in my mouth and what has stopped me from rooting for Cliff as AFP (but we all know he's probably got it).

[Callaphera]

38 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

But what's worse is that, unlike someone like Jess, Analyse, or even Bella, who could never grasp the idea of Big Brother and never could ever become a good player no matter how hard they could have tried, Nicole....really could have.

Hey now! Bella watched a whole fifteen minutes of the first episode of the last season and then went on Wikipedia to see who won. What more do you expect of her? 

[Blissfool]

So not only has my fridge been stocked with watermelon this summer, I  just got back from the grocery store with a box of Lucky Charms, a cereal I haven't bought in years. I am every marketer's dream. 

Did you all know there's 3 new unicorns!!

😁

[LGGirl]

I just don’t see Nichole cutthroat enough to win.  

Looking back on her last HOH, she should have taken Tommy down and sacrificed Cliff.   Tell Cliff, let Jackson decide.  Tommy needed a partner.  He would have chosen Nichole.  Nichole needed someone to work with her.  Cliff is limited because of physical injuries.   He’s been riding on Nichole’s coattails over the last few weeks.   He was no value added, at this point.  She needs someone who could help her along, not weigh her down.  

Someone who is cutthroat would have seen this and taken action.   No doubt, Jackson would have taken that bold move.  

[Ellee]

I don't think that Nicole is the type of person that would go for the win at any cost.  She's standing by the person who stood by her.  A very special quality.  And, though I don't really know her, I believe she is remaining true to herself.   How many times has she said 'It's a game'?  You want to win but sometimes you don't win.

I've been in her corner since the beginning.  Cliff's, too.  Regardless of how the game is analyzed, I don't believe Nicole would turn her back on Cliff.  Not in the game or out of it.

I see many great things in the future for Nicole.  She will have a lot of choices.  BB-related as well as non-BB. 

Go, Nicole.  Go, Cliff.  Finish what you started.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Ellee

[rachel1496]

Just now, Lady Calypso said:

 Cliff....has done some stuff, but only because he knows that he's needed her since his eviction.  

This is the big thing Nicole has been missing.  Cliff guaranteed her safety that week because he didn't entirely trust the group Christie had put together and he wanted to keep at least one person he knew would be loyal to him.  Jess obviously wasn't going to vote against Kat so it had to be Nicole.  He's been setting her up to get any and all blood on her hands, rather than his, ever since then.  She put all of her trust in him and that was her mistake and part of why I think she's kind of a crap game player.  Cliff had never shown himself to be particularly loyal to anyone up until that point so I'm not sure why she thought she was different in that respect.

But I also don't particularly like or dislike her so I can't hold it against him that he played the game.  As much as they all want to throw around the "I love you like family" bit, she's not his family and only one person can win.  It's not going to be Cliff because he's an idiot but it probably wouldn't have been Cliff anyway.

[Pass the Tequila]

1 hour ago, Ellee said:

... and sleep with him. 🙄

Sadly this is not the first time I've read this sentiment. To me she deserves half a mil for hazard pay. Jackson is a nightmare, but he deserves the win. He'll mess up his own life even more after this is over...if he doesn't use part of his winnings on therapy.

Holly has a better resume than Nicole. Sorry I can't forgive Nicole her waffling on her word waaaay back during Camp Counsellor times. She's been led around by the nose too much. So has Holly but still.

I rooted for Cliff initially for emotional and age bias reasons. As the season went on, for example his disheveled appearance while voting...I felt it was contrived. I don't blame the guy for trying and being selfish, but don't pretend that you aren't. Bleh.

Also, I want to thank the poster who included the link to the jury house BB comics reveal. What an eye opener. That f'n Jack! Ruling the roost over there. I hope the producers keep his screen time to a minimum, unless it's to drive home again how truly offensive he is.

I suspect Jackson's acceptance speech and everything else from now on quite frankly to be insufferable.. because it looks like he's got this in the bag... in this newbies opinion anyway.

I'll watch next season...now that I've gotten past the wtf moments while reading here eg "fishcam", "kittehs", "meatshield" and "survival sex". Omg. All things new to me now post watching this my 1st US BB season. 

I'll see if I can figure out live streaming for next season.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

F4 is always a crapshoot.  There's really not a lot one can do if the "wrong" person/side wins POV.  

F3 is even more so problematic.

My point is that it is a bit much, imo, to count on alliances and such.  The entire goal of the game is to just get there.  From there, you takes your chances.  Cliff and Nicole got each other in position to win.  Valiantly, if you ask me.

Tommy/Holly...what to do?  As all y'all great posters noted along the way, either choice was fraught with peril.  Bottom line:  Win the dang POV.

Now, same thing:  Win the first HOH comp in the F3.  Take out the strongest remaining  hamster. 

I believe that far too much energy is put into jury considerations.  By all means, don't be a dick.  But, as all hamsters eventually come to understand, deceits are just game, in the end.  If the dominant cool kids are going to vote for one of their own, there is no planning nor speechifying that will change that.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Lonesome Rhodes

[kellog010]

Cliff was so focused on F2 and his speech that he forgot he needed to actually get there. 

[ByaNose]

1 hour ago, kellog010 said:

Cliff was so focused on F2 and his speech that he forgot he needed to actually get there. 

True. He just assumed everyone was going to take him to the Final 2. Also, getting bamboozled by Jackson on the Tommy situation didn’t help. That said, does Cliff still think Jackson’s taking him over Holly or is he resigned to the fact that’s he’s going home? I haven’t watched the feeds all day. I know Jackson & Holly talked about but are they going to tell Cliff beforehand? 

[zorak]

5 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

True. He just assumed everyone was going to take him to the Final 2. Also, getting bamboozled by Jackson on the Tommy situation didn’t help. That said, does Cliff still think Jackson’s taking him over Holly or is he resigned to the fact that’s he’s going home? I haven’t watched the feeds all day. I know Jackson & Holly talked about but are they going to tell Cliff beforehand? 

Last night Holly asked Jackson when he was going to tell Cliff.  Jackson said after the veto ceremony.