The Sopranos - General Discussion

[maraleia]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from The Sporano's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[tkellnerus]

Hi. I'm tkellnerus. Anyone out there have a favorite or memorable Sopranos episode? Or a good rant??

[Princess Sparkle]

My favorite character is Christopher (it used to be Paulie, but on rewatch, Christopher has overtaken him), so a lot of my favorite episodes usually involve him.  My favorite all-time line is still his "What?  The life is good enough for me, but not for little lord fuckpants?"  Never was there a more appropriate moniker for Jackie Jr.  My favorite scene is probably Christopher's Intervention. Everything about it is just perfect - Tony not letting go of the dog, Benny and Furio not looking even remotely interested until they get to beat up Christopher, and Paulie & Sil's contributions crack me up every time.  And my favorite pairing has always been Christopher and Paulie - even though Paulie would break his balls A LOT, there were times where I felt like Paulie cared for Christopher even more than Tony did.    

 

Favorite episode is a lot harder to pick out.  My most rewatched is Pine Barrens, but there are so many great episodes - Whitecaps comes to mind, as does College.  Long Term Parking is another great one, even if the end breaks my heart every time.  

 

Employee of the Month is the only one I can't bear to rewatch after I saw it the first time, which is a shame, because it's the episode that has the "little lord fuckpants" line.  But I couldn't get Melfi's screams out of my head for days after I watched the episode initially, and I just can't bring myself to watch it again.   

Edited May 5, 2015 by Princess Sparkle

[helenamonster]

Looking at it objectively, "Long Term Parking" is probably my favorite episode. The actual content is...less than desirable...but it's such a well-crafted hour of television. The last scene, with the camera panning down from the trees and hearing the leaves crunch only for it to be Tony and Carmela, sends shivers down my spine each time.

 

As far as more personal favorites, less based on objectively looking at the quality of episodes compared to others and more just episodes I enjoy...I've always loved "Proshai, Livushka." Straight-out-of-the-uncanny-valley CGI Livia aside, it's just got a lot of great stuff, especially with Janice as she turns her Janice-ness up to 11. The whole scene in the living room, between her and high-as-a-kite Chrissy, is just stellar stuff. Other favorites are "The Strong, Silent Type" (purely for the intervention), "The Weight" (I'd already liked Johnny Sack up until that point but he became one of my favorites after this episode, even if he did get a little overworked about the whole thing), "Irregular Around The Margins," "Mr. Ruggerio's Neighborhood" (the mixing of the Peter Gunn theme and "Every Breath You Take" while the FBI bugged the house was genius, and I liked having an episode that was almost totally from their perspective), "The Ride," "Stage 5," "Mayham," and "University" (although, like "Employee of the Month," it is very, very hard to watch).

[BaseOps]

SpoilerTV did a Throwback Thursday review of "Long Term Parking" which is pretty interesting and makes a few good points. Notably how much Christopher changed after that episode. Of course it's the end of Adriana, but it really is the beginning of the end for Christopher and the family as well. 

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/06/throwback-thursday-sopranos-long-term.html

[ByTor]

I completely disagree with this part of the article:

despite all of their misdeeds, insanity, and unwillingness to get out while they had the chance, you could never help but root for Adriana and Christopher

When it came to Christopher, since season 1 the only thing I rooted for was his death.

[helenamonster]

I definitely agree that Ade's death was also the beginning of the end for Chrissy, but for a different reason.

 

Chrissy had a choice: Tony or Ade. He picked Tony, mostly because he just couldn't give up The Life. But I think he also thought that life would get better for him if he told Tony about Ade. Despite what a piece of shit he was to her, I think deep down, in his own messed-up way, he did love her, and everybody, including Tony, could see that. I think Chrissy thought that Tony would see him coming clean about Ade to be a massive sacrifice and would treat him better because of it. Chrissy had spent so long being second to the likes of Paulie and Tony B., maybe this would finally cement his place as Tony's favorite.

 

What he didn't realize was that Tony would not see what he did as some massive sacrifice. This is the business where "you're only as good as your next paycheck." In Tony's eyes, of course Chrissy gave up Ade. What else was he going to do? Flip on the family and betray his oath? And Chrissy tried to milk it too, saying he deserved such and such because he was straight with Tony about Ade. So not only did his actions still not permanently endear him to Tony, he no longer had the one person who had loved him unconditionally to help him through it. He picked Tony, and he got exactly what he asked for. He signed his own death warrant at the exact same time he signed Ade's, and that was some straight-up poetic justice.

 

"Long Term Parking" is truly an incredible episode, though. Not just for what happens in that hour (nothing on TV has ever shaken me quite like Ade's final car ride) but for the domino effect it has on the last season and the implications it has for all the other characters, especially Chrissy and Carmela.

 

When it came to Christopher, since season 1 the only thing I rooted for was his death.

 

I think I liked him until that first time he slapped Ade across the face in front of Matt and Shawn, which I guess was early Season 2? However, I did find their relationship fascinating, and while I never in a million years wanted them to end up together, I loved watching them together, if that makes any sense. And Michael Imperioli is a treasure. "Allegra...isn't that a type of cold medicine?" "It's Italian for happiness." "...the fuck's that gotta do with cold medicine?"

[ByTor]

I did find their relationship fascinating, and while I never in a million years wanted them to end up together, I loved watching them together, if that makes any sense. And Michael Imperioli is a treasure.

Makes perfect sense to me. I felt this exactly this way about Sons of Anarchy...I didn't find any of the Sons rootable, and I especially couldn't stand Clay, but I loved watching him (mainly because Ron Perlman was just THAT good). I have a feeling, though, that as much as I actively rooted for Chris to get wacked early on, I would have missed him (mostly thanks to MI's acting).

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

What he didn't realize was that Tony would not see what he did as some massive sacrifice....And Chrissy tried to milk it too, saying he deserved such and such because he was straight with Tony about Ade. So not only did his actions still not permanently endear him to Tony, he no longer had the one person who had loved him unconditionally to help him through it.

 Finally, even Tony had enough and straight-out asked "How long are you gonna play the Adrianna card? Remember that Chris wasn't even the one to do the hit: Silvio did it after Chris begged off.

 

Straight-out-of-the-uncanny-valley CGI Livia aside, it's just got a lot of great stuff, especially with Janice as she turns her Janice-ness up to 11.

Tony specifically tells Janice how he wants the funeral run, she runs completely counter to what he says, the funeral bombs spectacularly, turns into a Livia-trashing festival, and Carmella calls her out in front of everyone. Truly a scene made of awesome.

[Petunia13]

I hated Ralphie with a passion and was glad when he died.

[ByTor]

I hated Ralphie, yet somehow I managed to feel bad for him when he died. The deaths I did several happy dances over were Richie Aprile and Christopher. I hated those two more than I should rationally hate anybody, real or fictional!

Edited March 17, 2016 by ByTor

[Fable]

I spent the last few weeks binging this show.  Believe it or not, I had never seen it before.  Of course I knew the ending, because….Internet, but otherwise I had no idea what to expect.  While I found many people interesting, I couldn’t stand most of the characters. 

I realize she was supposed to be central to the story, but I hated Melfi and found most of her scenes annoying.  I don’t know how to take Tony.  He could be entertaining but there were so many times I wanted to slap him upside the head, and there were a few times that I found him downright despicable.  I did love Bobby though, and my heart broke when he died.  I probably shouldn’t have, but also had a soft spot for Junior. 

Enough of my bitching though.  Even though so many characters irritated me, I think the show was fascinating.  The actors were wonderful and believable, and I can see why the show holds up as great TV. 

[Princess Sparkle]

9 hours ago, Fable said:

I spent the last few weeks binging this show.  Believe it or not, I had never seen it before.  Of course I knew the ending, because….Internet, but otherwise I had no idea what to expect.  While I found many people interesting, I couldn’t stand most of the characters. 

I realize she was supposed to be central to the story, but I hated Melfi and found most of her scenes annoying.  I don’t know how to take Tony.  He could be entertaining but there were so many times I wanted to slap him upside the head, and there were a few times that I found him downright despicable.  I did love Bobby though, and my heart broke when he died.  I probably shouldn’t have, but also had a soft spot for Junior. 

Enough of my bitching though.  Even though so many characters irritated me, I think the show was fascinating.  The actors were wonderful and believable, and I can see why the show holds up as great TV. 

You know, most of the characters, especially Tony, are such an interesting case of what great writing and fantastic acting can do to shape how you feel about a character.  Because Tony is, objectively, a murderer, sociopath, and probably a bit of a narcissist, and yet a lot of the time, you (the general you) root for him - I know I did.  And I truly feel like that is a testament to how good James Gandolfini was as Tony; I feel like a lesser actor wouldn't have been able to get you on his side.  There's a story that David Chase was such a huge fan of Steve Van Zandt that he wanted SVZ to play Tony, and SVZ turned him down since he had never acted before and thought an experienced actor should take the part, so the part of Sil was written specifically for him.  Thank god SVZ had some good sense, because while I love what he did with Sil, it's not like Sil had a whole lot of nuance. 

[Fable]

2 hours ago, Princess Sparkle said:

You know, most of the characters, especially Tony, are such an interesting case of what great writing and fantastic acting can do to shape how you feel about a character.  Because Tony is, objectively, a murderer, sociopath, and probably a bit of a narcissist, and yet a lot of the time, you (the general you) root for him - I know I did

I know what you mean.  I can’t say I actively rooted for many people, and I found most of the characters rather unlikeable, but not in the way that it made me want to shut my TV off, in fact, just the opposite.  The characters were engaging, and I was always entertained and intrigued. 

[helenamonster]

12 hours ago, Fable said:

I know what you mean.  I can’t say I actively rooted for many people, and I found most of the characters rather unlikeable, but not in the way that it made me want to shut my TV off, in fact, just the opposite.  The characters were engaging, and I was always entertained and intrigued. 

I feel exactly the same way, and I think this show was kind of rare in its ability to have most of its main characters be absolutely awful people who managed to still be interesting, engaging, and even entertaining, and for the show as a whole to not suffer as we watched already questionable characters turn into absolute garbage people by the end. A lot of other shows that try to go the antihero/generally-unlikable-cast-of-characters route seem to really struggle with that balance as the seasons go on. But I think what helped The Sopranos was that it was framed in such a way that we were supposed to think these assholes, were, well, assholes. That was kind of the point. Other shows try to make you continue to love their terrible characters as things spiral out of control, and that's where they stumble.

It's really disconcerting to finish this show and then go back and watch it from the beginning, though. None of the main characters were paragons of virtue to start out with, but compared to how they all ended up, they're downright saints in the pilot.

[Princess Sparkle]

9 hours ago, helenamonster said:

I feel exactly the same way, and I think this show was kind of rare in its ability to have most of its main characters be absolutely awful people who managed to still be interesting, engaging, and even entertaining, and for the show as a whole to not suffer as we watched already questionable characters turn into absolute garbage people by the end. A lot of other shows that try to go the antihero/generally-unlikable-cast-of-characters route seem to really struggle with that balance as the seasons go on. But I think what helped The Sopranos was that it was framed in such a way that we were supposed to think these assholes, were, well, assholes. That was kind of the point. Other shows try to make you continue to love their terrible characters as things spiral out of control, and that's where they stumble.

I feel like what helped with the framing a lot was that we had Melfi as a bit of an audience surrogate, espeically in those early seasons.  We see her struggle repeatedly with her decision to treat Tony, and her own internal conflict of finding him charming and trying to help him, all while knowing logically that he's a sociopath that she can't ever hope to completely treat.  

It also goes to show how terrible Richie and Ralphie were, because those two guys made everyone else look like saints.  And hell, even Ralphie made Richie look not so bad.  

9 hours ago, helenamonster said:

 

It's really disconcerting to finish this show and then go back and watch it from the beginning, though. None of the main characters were paragons of virtue to start out with, but compared to how they all ended up, they're downright saints in the pilot.

 This is so shallow, I know, but what's always striking to me when you go back to the first season is how thin James Gandolfini looks as compared to the rest of the series.  I know he was told to keep his weight up, because HBO didn't want a skinny Tony, but he is markedly thinner in the first season as compared to the last.

[helenamonster]

3 hours ago, Princess Sparkle said:

I feel like what helped with the framing a lot was that we had Melfi as a bit of an audience surrogate, espeically in those early seasons.  We see her struggle repeatedly with her decision to treat Tony, and her own internal conflict of finding him charming and trying to help him, all while knowing logically that he's a sociopath that she can't ever hope to completely treat.  

It also goes to show how terrible Richie and Ralphie were, because those two guys made everyone else look like saints.  And hell, even Ralphie made Richie look not so bad.  

 This is so shallow, I know, but what's always striking to me when you go back to the first season is how thin James Gandolfini looks as compared to the rest of the series.  I know he was told to keep his weight up, because HBO didn't want a skinny Tony, but he is markedly thinner in the first season as compared to the last.

Yes, totally agree on Melfi. Love her or hate her, the show would have been so tonally different without her in it. Cuz what's interesting, especially in the early seasons, is how the show positioned Tony as this very average kind of guy in a lot of ways, someone that the audience could either relate to or could pinpoint someone in their lives that he reminded them of. But at the same time he was also a murderer. It's that sort of balance that makes "College" such an awesome episode. Here you have this guy that's doing what a lot of dads do, taking his teenage daughter to look at colleges, except he wanders off for an hour to strangle a rat and then picks her back up like nothing happened. Combine that with Carmela's scenes with Father Phil ("I have forsaken what is right for what is easy") and it's sort of the whole show in a nutshell...these are bad people but they're all too true-to-life.

So then Melfi's presence sort of helps to make sense of all that, especially in "Employee of the Month," and especially in this scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe0Eu_AaLLI

She could ask Tony to kill Rossi for her, and she knows he would do it, and honestly, would the world be a worse off place if he was gone? It would actually probably be better. But she doesn't because at the end of the day Tony is still a bad person, and one bad guy killing another bad guy doesn't suddenly make the world a better place, and it doesn't suddenly make Tony a hero.

(Sorry for rambling, I actually wrote a term paper on "Employee of the Month" for a class my junior year of college. It's an endlessly fascinating hour of television, and I have way too much analysis of it stored in my brain haha.)

The rest of your post...I think also that not only did characters like Richie and Ralphie make the others look like stellar human beings in comparison, but because the morality of the show was so topsy turvy I was able to kind of enjoy them too haha. They're still awful people and I wasn't sad to see them go (Janice shooting Richie is in my top five favorite moments for sure), but they were awesome to watch. That can be credited to the acting just as much as the writing, though.

I've thought the same thing about Gandolfini's weight as well. On a related shallow note, if you're ever just watching random scenes via a YouTube black hole, it's fun to guess what season the show is in based on how heavily Tony is breathing.

[Princess Sparkle]

I thought this article was interesting, and touches on what we were talking about a little bit ago: How The Sopranos Crew Reminded You They Were Bad Guys.

[helenamonster]

I think what they said about Ralph was really interesting. Cuz he's arguably the absolute worst of all of them, and I bore no ill will towards Tony when he finally did it...but according to their code, Tony had no justification for killing Ralph. Even punching Ralph after he killed Tracee caused all sorts of drama. Killing Ralph for maybe possibly setting a fire that killed a damn horse? Big no no. I just love the scene where Christopher shows up at Ralph's, sees him dead, and Tony's just all, "I found him like this" and Christopher is too high to care.

But it is interesting how one of the murders that I'd guess most of the audience was happy about was one that Tony couldn't justify in a normal morality or to people who shared his worldview. It was the same thing when he killed Christopher too, I guess, though I'm assuming that one was a little more controversial with the audience.

[Princess Sparkle]

Yeah, I harken back to what Junior said to Bobby on why he'd side with Tony over Richie when Richie was trying to take over: "Fucking loser.  He couldn't sell it; he's not respected."  In that vein, I think if he had wanted to, Tony could've "sold" why Ralphie had to die.  Not using the horse as an excuse, but in a "he was out of control, and was a threat to the family" way.  Killing Christopher on the other hand - you're right, I don't think the crew would've accepted that, and I don't think Tony would've been able to sell it.  Which is funny, considering how many times Christopher was saved from being whacked just by the benefit of being Tony's nephew - Christopher is reminded of that fact during the intervention, and when he tries to kill Tony after he thinks Tony and Adrianna slept together.  However, the one time Tony did decide to kill him, he wouldn't have had any reason, especially because he and Paulie were the ones that goaded Christopher into breaking his sobriety the episode prior.  

[helenamonster]

Believe me, I hated Christopher Moltisanti with every fiber of my being (although I adore Michael Imperioli and his portrayal of Christopher was top-notch), but one thing about him I did sympathize with was how he had no support from anyone (besides Adriana) when it came to his sobriety. Tony's lack of empathy about the issue was especially astounding, even for him. Sure, yeah, he hated when Christopher was using, but only because it was inconvenient for Tony, not because Christopher was slowly killing himself or beating the shit out of Adriana. And then when Christopher did sober up, Tony couldn't help himself from taunting him. He was disgusted by Christopher's addictive personality, he saw it as a weakness, and he hated that he wasn't able to just "hang" like all the other guys.

That being said, I do blame Christopher for enduring all this hazing from Tony and other men who are supposed to be his friends/family and still choosing them over Adriana. He had no one but himself to blame for how it all ended.

[Fable]

Christopher was an interesting character study.  I had no love for Christopher, but he never really had a chance.  No matter what he did, Tony always held him in contempt. I think his betrayal of Adriana was a list ditch effort to gain Tony’s approval.  I didn’t always care for Adriana.  She was fairly supportive of Christopher, but I would think she would have tried to curb her own substance use once Christopher tried to get clean.  That said, I think what happened to her was tragic.  She really was the only person in his corner, and he sacrificed that to win the respect from Tony that he craved but could never hope to achieve. 

[helenamonster]

I agree that Christopher is a very interesting character study; even though I don't like him on, like, a personal level, I find myself continuously fascinated with him whenever I go back to rewatch an episode. I feel the same way about Carmela.

That's an interesting point about Adriana not curbing her own substance abuse when Christopher was trying to stay sober. I agree it didn't help him that she kept using (and even kept alcohol in their apartment). However, I think it was the only way she had to deal with her own problems, as she had literally zero people she could confide in; she couldn't tell Christopher or any of the wives, and the feds made it clear they had no time for her bellyaching. Her substance abuse dramatically increased once she got roped into informing, but even before then, it seemed like her go-to for dealing with stress. I remember the scene from "Proshai, Livushka" where Christopher and Furio are getting high before Livia's funeral, and Adriana joins them, because "anything to get through these events." She admitted later (not in so many words) that she had a bit of social anxiety, and that only got worse after the feds popped her. So she wasn't an addict in the "traditional" sense that Christopher was, but she did have a bit of substance dependence, for sure.

[Princess Sparkle]

Christopher is such an interesting character to me, because I always think about what he could've been like if he didn't go into the mafia.  For as much as Tony wanted to keep his actual son away from the life, he sure dragged the person he loved like a son right into it.  Weirdly, if there was one person on the show that I think probably would've been responsive to therapy, I think it was Christopher - we saw him be introspective on occasion (or at the very least, pretty perceptive), he seemed to take to rehab well, and I think if he'd had someone like Melfi to work through some of his parental issues with, he could've made a real breakthrough.  Or at least made headway on not being so self-destructive.  

[ChicksDigScars]

On 7/19/2016 at 3:19 PM, helenamonster said:

 

I've thought the same thing about Gandolfini's weight as well. On a related shallow note, if you're ever just watching random scenes via a YouTube black hole, it's fun to guess what season the show is in based on how heavily Tony is breathing.

I'm currently binging. It's been awhile. I watched the entire series live, but I don't think I went through and binged watched the entire run in such a short time frame.  And yeah, when I turned on Season One, I was actually shocked at how much thinner Gandolfini was, even though I had watched the show all along.  And I was thinking that the network and show's creators desire for a heavy set Tony, contributed to Gandolfini's death at such a young age. Sure, it was a few years after the show ended, but weight loss for some is harder than others.  It's easier for some actors to gain and lose massive amounts of weight for certain roles, but it does take a toll on the heart. And I don't think Gandolfini ever really lost his "Tony fat" after the series ended. 

 

There's a few references in earlier shows to Tony's eating, and how he's a heart attack waiting to happen. I literally cringed when Christopher said it, considering what happened. 

[atlantaloves]

Gandolfini ate all that food every time for every take. (it is documented by cast people) He was beyond a method actor. Everybody else if you will watch closely just plays with their food, (as screen actors learn to do) because there are so many takes, if you actually eat at every take you will throw up.  James, nope, he ate it all. Bless him. Fine actor and person, he just really loved his frigging food.  

[Ororo Monroe]

Just rewatched the series and I don't know how I forgot just how violent this show is. The physical violence of course but the emotional and psychological violence is really intense. Also the racism is through the roof. Yall ever notice how Black people are the constant scapegoats for their crimes and betrayals of each other? And the racial slurs they use for Blacks, Asians, Latinos. And I GET IT, they are mafiosos from New Jersey, I would not expect a single one of them to be enlightened about race/race relations but sometimes it's hard to watch 80+ hours of so many variations of the n-word. And the casual misogyny...wow. 

It's still a fascinating show, especially w/r/t cinematography and the acting. (I particularly liked the dream sequences) but...whew. It's hard to watch a lot of times. I also think it's interesting to read articles that say they started out as lovable bad guys and got worse as the season went on...uh no. Every character was heinous from day one lol

 

One more thing: Michael Imperioli is a brilliant actor because I really despised Christofuh. But I think those moments when Chrisofuh seemed halfway redeemable was Michael shining through.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Rolling Stone printed an excerpt from the upcoming book The Sopranos Sessions

[Claire85]

Does anyone remember in which episode Tony tells Melfi that there are only 3 options for guys like him? I think the choices were death, jail, or becoming a rat. 

[helenamonster]

On 4/17/2019 at 4:59 PM, Claire85 said:

Does anyone remember in which episode Tony tells Melfi that there are only 3 options for guys like him? I think the choices were death, jail, or becoming a rat. 

Had to do some googling, but was it this one?:

"There's two endings for a guy like me, high profile guy: dead or in the can." - Season 4 Episode 1 "For All Debts Public and Private"

[qtpye]

On 6/18/2015 at 4:58 PM, ByTor said:

I completely disagree with this part of the article:

When it came to Christopher, since season 1 the only thing I rooted for was his death.

On 6/18/2015 at 10:12 PM, helenamonster said:

I definitely agree that Ade's death was also the beginning of the end for Chrissy, but for a different reason.

Chrissy had a choice: Tony or Ade. He picked Tony, mostly because he just couldn't give up The Life. But I think he also thought that life would get better for him if he told Tony about Ade. Despite what a piece of shit he was to her, I think deep down, in his own messed-up way, he did love her, and everybody, including Tony, could see that. I think Chrissy thought that Tony would see him coming clean about Ade to be a massive sacrifice and would treat him better because of it. Chrissy had spent so long being second to the likes of Paulie and Tony B., maybe this would finally cement his place as Tony's favorite.

What he didn't realize was that Tony would not see what he did as some massive sacrifice. This is the business where "you're only as good as your next paycheck." In Tony's eyes, of course Chrissy gave up Ade. What else was he going to do? Flip on the family and betray his oath? And Chrissy tried to milk it too, saying he deserved such and such because he was straight with Tony about Ade. So not only did his actions still not permanently endear him to Tony, he no longer had the one person who had loved him unconditionally to help him through it. He picked Tony, and he got exactly what he asked for. He signed his own death warrant at the exact same time he signed Ade's, and that was some straight-up poetic justice.

"Long Term Parking" is truly an incredible episode, though. Not just for what happens in that hour (nothing on TV has ever shaken me quite like Ade's final car ride) but for the domino effect it has on the last season and the implications it has for all the other characters, especially Chrissy and Carmela.

I think I liked him until that first time he slapped Ade across the face in front of Matt and Shawn, which I guess was early Season 2? However, I did find their relationship fascinating, and while I never in a million years wanted them to end up together, I loved watching them together, if that makes any sense. And Michael Imperioli is a treasure. "Allegra...isn't that a type of cold medicine?" "It's Italian for happiness." "...the fuck's that gotta do with cold medicine?"

On 3/17/2016 at 3:34 PM, ByTor said:

I hated Ralphie, yet somehow I managed to feel bad for him when he died. The deaths I did several happy dances over were Richie Aprile and Christopher. I hated those two more than I should rationally hate anybody, real or fictional!

On 8/10/2016 at 3:55 AM, helenamonster said:

Believe me, I hated Christopher Moltisanti with every fiber of my being (although I adore Michael Imperioli and his portrayal of Christopher was top-notch), but one thing about him I did sympathize with was how he had no support from anyone (besides Adriana) when it came to his sobriety. Tony's lack of empathy about the issue was especially astounding, even for him. Sure, yeah, he hated when Christopher was using, but only because it was inconvenient for Tony, not because Christopher was slowly killing himself or beating the shit out of Adriana. And then when Christopher did sober up, Tony couldn't help himself from taunting him. He was disgusted by Christopher's addictive personality, he saw it as a weakness, and he hated that he wasn't able to just "hang" like all the other guys.

That being said, I do blame Christopher for enduring all this hazing from Tony and other men who are supposed to be his friends/family and still choosing them over Adriana. He had no one but himself to blame for how it all ended.

On 8/12/2016 at 1:33 PM, Princess Sparkle said:

Christopher is such an interesting character to me, because I always think about what he could've been like if he didn't go into the mafia.  For as much as Tony wanted to keep his actual son away from the life, he sure dragged the person he loved like a son right into it.  Weirdly, if there was one person on the show that I think probably would've been responsive to therapy, I think it was Christopher - we saw him be introspective on occasion (or at the very least, pretty perceptive), he seemed to take to rehab well, and I think if he'd had someone like Melfi to work through some of his parental issues with, he could've made a real breakthrough.  Or at least made headway on not being so self-destructive.  

On 12/10/2018 at 3:03 PM, Ororo Monroe said:

Just rewatched the series and I don't know how I forgot just how violent this show is. The physical violence of course but the emotional and psychological violence is really intense. Also the racism is through the roof. Yall ever notice how Black people are the constant scapegoats for their crimes and betrayals of each other? And the racial slurs they use for Blacks, Asians, Latinos. And I GET IT, they are mafiosos from New Jersey, I would not expect a single one of them to be enlightened about race/race relations but sometimes it's hard to watch 80+ hours of so many variations of the n-word. And the casual misogyny...wow. 

It's still a fascinating show, especially w/r/t cinematography and the acting. (I particularly liked the dream sequences) but...whew. It's hard to watch a lot of times. I also think it's interesting to read articles that say they started out as lovable bad guys and got worse as the season went on...uh no. Every character was heinous from day one lol

One more thing: Michael Imperioli is a brilliant actor because I really despised Christofuh. But I think those moments when Chrisofuh seemed halfway redeemable was Michael shining through.

Christofuh was horrible and the actor was totally fascinating in that role. I wanted Ade to go into witness protection and get the hell away from him. It is a good lesson for women who are victims of abuse from their boyfriends. The guy will never put you first no matter what and he will probably never change.

[Claire85]

19 hours ago, helenamonster said:

Had to do some googling, but was it this one?:

"There's two endings for a guy like me, high profile guy: dead or in the can." - Season 4 Episode 1 "For All Debts Public and Private"

That's it! No wonder I couldn't find it, I thought there were three options at once. (Later he does say a 3rd option is to rely only on family.) Thanks!

Edited April 19, 2019 by Claire85

[Bryce Lynch]

On 5/5/2015 at 2:05 PM, Princess Sparkle said:

My favorite character is Christopher (it used to be Paulie, but on rewatch, Christopher has overtaken him), so a lot of my favorite episodes usually involve him.  My favorite all-time line is still his "What?  The life is good enough for me, but not for little lord fuckpants?"  Never was there a more appropriate moniker for Jackie Jr.  My favorite scene is probably Christopher's Intervention. Everything about it is just perfect - Tony not letting go of the dog, Benny and Furio not looking even remotely interested until they get to beat up Christopher, and Paulie & Sil's contributions crack me up every time.  And my favorite pairing has always been Christopher and Paulie - even though Paulie would break his balls A LOT, there were times where I felt like Paulie cared for Christopher even more than Tony did.    

Favorite episode is a lot harder to pick out.  My most rewatched is Pine Barrens, but there are so many great episodes - Whitecaps comes to mind, as does College.  Long Term Parking is another great one, even if the end breaks my heart every time.  

Employee of the Month is the only one I can't bear to rewatch after I saw it the first time, which is a shame, because it's the episode that has the "little lord fuckpants" line.  But I couldn't get Melfi's screams out of my head for days after I watched the episode initially, and I just can't bring myself to watch it again.   

Whitecaps and Long Term Parking were great.  I agree that Employee of the Month is hard to rewatch.  If Melfi had sicced Tony on the rapist, it would probably be easier.  But her not only getting raped, but not getting justice is hard to watch.

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I think "College" is a bit overrated.   I felt that some of the characters' actions made zero sense.

1) The way Tony killed Febby was idiotic.  He couldn't even wear gloves?  He left his blood and DNA all over the scene and I believe he even left the cable he used to strangle him behind. He also felt for Febby's pulse on his neck, leaving behind fingerprints.  He also left behind footprints in the mud, and had Febby's DNA and the mud all over him, plus the cuts on his hands.   There was also a trail of he and Meadow being in the area.  

2) It made no sense for Febby to try to kill Tony.  Febby had ONE option and that was to flee.  He would have known that Tony would have called back to NJ to tell members of his crew that he had spotted him.  All killing Tony would do is buy him maybe a day, while Christopher and the others drove up to kill him.  Once they heard Tony was dead, they would have figured out that Febby did it.  And they probably would have killed him even more brutally after he killed their capo.   

Febby would have either hoped Tony hadn't recognized him, and done nothing, or would have packed up and started a new life elsewhere, as he had done before.  

[MJS]

Rewatching the series, man what a show!

Only thing to add to the great comments, is how sad Vito's story arc is. You know he'll never end up happy, but to see him realize he could have lived an open and loving life, then choosing “the family”, who despised him in every way, and brutalized him.... heart breaking. 

[VCRTracking]

Catching up to the Sopranos recently. I stopped watching after season 3 a long time ago. Not for any reason, just got busy with other things. Anyway after finishing season 4 I have just two thoughts:

I now can't stop listening to "Oh Girl" by the Chi-lights.

Edie Falco's Emmy win for "Whitecaps" is the most deserving EVER.

Edited November 8, 2019 by VCRTracking

[SunnyBeBe]

I re-watched a marathon of Sopranos Season 6 last night. Not quite done.  I watched when they first aired and was a big fan.  After that, I watched many reruns too.  You notice lots of little things, when you've watched them so many times.  

This time around, I can't believe what a kick I got out of Junior in the mental hospital.  lol  Part of his behavior was his normal self, throw in the dementia and then some medication.....man...he was a handful.  

I think that A.J. might have frustrated me more then most characters.  Talk about a screw up.  It shocked me that Carmellia ever left anything up to him to do.  He just couldn't do it.  I think that I always wanted him to go away.  

But, the biggest thing that I thought about on this last viewing was about James Gandolfini's health.   Tony had that close call with death when he was shot by Junior, and then he thought about life much differently.   Only Gandolfini had no idea that he would die within 6 years.  I watched the HBO show Autopsy: The Final Hours about his death.  The guy seemed to not give his body much of a break.  Healthwise Gandolfini and Tony were much alike. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by SunnyBeBe

[SunnyBeBe]

On 12/10/2018 at 3:03 PM, Ororo Monroe said:

Just rewatched the series and I don't know how I forgot just how violent this show is. The physical violence of course but the emotional and psychological violence is really intense. Also the racism is through the roof. Yall ever notice how Black people are the constant scapegoats for their crimes and betrayals of each other? And the racial slurs they use for Blacks, Asians, Latinos. And I GET IT, they are mafiosos from New Jersey, I would not expect a single one of them to be enlightened about race/race relations but sometimes it's hard to watch 80+ hours of so many variations of the n-word. And the casual misogyny...wow. 

It's still a fascinating show, especially w/r/t cinematography and the acting. (I particularly liked the dream sequences) but...whew. It's hard to watch a lot of times. I also think it's interesting to read articles that say they started out as lovable bad guys and got worse as the season went on...uh no. Every character was heinous from day one lol

 

One more thing: Michael Imperioli is a brilliant actor because I really despised Christofuh. But I think those moments when Chrisofuh seemed halfway redeemable was Michael shining through.

I agree.  And, looking into the story....for law enforcement officers to go into places owned/operated by this cruel bunch of killers and sit down and eat a sandwich!  OMG.  I don't think I could stomach it.  And, to chat and comment on the food!  I can't imagine.  I get WHY they did it, but, it still boggles the mind. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I just completed watching all of season 6 (finale) again.  This time, I do believe that the implication was that Tony would be whacked in the diner. This time, I noticed how someone towards the end, maybe Paulie, said that Phil had a long line of relatives who might show up to atone for Phil, if he were murdered.  So, why didn't Tony and the surviving crew take precautions against this? Why just plop down in a public place with no protection? I find that quite strange.  Also, A.J. told Tony that he always talked about his favorite movie scene that was from the Godfather when Michael went into the restaurant and killed the men who were responsible for the attack on his father.  This seemed to foreshadow how Tony would go down.  

I wasn't one who was outraged with the ending, at the time it happened, though, I can see why some were. 

[suomi]

The first four links are nice, long interviews. 

January 10, 2019

David Chase & ‘The Sopranos’ Gang Look Back 20 Years Later: Part I

https://deadline.com/2019/01/the-sopranos-david-chase-interview-oral-history-james-gandolfini-steven-van-zandt-lorraine-bracco-20-year-anniversary-1202532570/

January 10, 2019

The Sopranos’ 20th Anniversary Look Back: Part II

https://deadline.com/2019/01/sopranos-20th-anniversary-interview-david-chase-matt-weiner-terence-winter-look-back-1202532700/

January 11, 2019

‘The Sopranos’ At 20 Part III: Mobster Mishaps & When David Chase Knocks On Your Door, You’re Dead

https://deadline.com/2019/01/the-sopranos-character-deaths-set-mishaps-20-year-anniversary-1202533468/

January 13, 2019

‘The Sopranos’ At 20 Part IV: Real Mobsters, Great Gandolfini & The Most Debated Ending In TV History

https://deadline.com/2019/01/the-sopranos-james-gandolfini-controversial-ending-20-year-anniversary-1202534204/

January 22, 2019

‘Sopranos’ Prequel Film Finds Young Tony: Michael Gandolfini Is Chip Off Old Block

https://deadline.com/2019/01/the-sopranos-prequel-movie-michael-gandolfini-tony-soprano-james-gandolfini-the-many-saints-of-newark-james-gandolfini-david-chase-1202539160/

February 27, 2019

Ray Liotta Returns To Mob Movie Fold With ‘Sopranos’ Prequel ‘The Many Saints Of Newark’

https://deadline.com/2019/02/ray-liotta-the-sopranos-prequel-film-goodfellas-mob-movie-david-chase-the-many-saints-of-newark-new-line-warner-bros-1202566594/

March 15, 2019

Warner Bros Dates ‘Sopranos’ Prequel ‘The Many Saints Of Newark’ For Fall 2020 – Update

https://deadline.com/2019/03/sopranos-prequel-movie-opens-september-2020-1202575803/

Edited June 10, 2020 by suomi
spacing

[Stella]

Quote

On 6/10/2020 at 7:26 PM, suomi said:

The first four links are nice, long interviews. 

 

Loved these interviews. I'm just watching the show for the first time, 20+ years later.

The casting for "The Many Saints of Newark" looks fabulous. Corey Stoll as Junior Soprano is A+++. I wonder if Vera Farmiga and Jon Bernthal are playing Tony's parents? Seems likely and also perfect.

[suomi]

2 hours ago, Stella said:

I'm just watching the show for the first time, 20+ years later.

Fasten your seat belt, keep your arms and legs inside the car, and enjoy the ride!

[suomi]

Links that pertain to the final episode. They discuss the same thing but there's a decent variety of nuance.

Spoiler

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=3277439&page=1

https://bestclassicbands.com/journey-sopranos-final-scene-10-25-16/

https://www.today.com/popculture/journey-members-thrilled-sopranos-wbna19178289

https://calendar.songfacts.com/june/10/19243

https://people.com/celebrity/journeys-steve-perry-thinks-sopranos-finale-hit-right-note/

https://planetradio.co.uk/planet-rock/news/rock-news/journeys-steve-perry-reveals-how-he-nearly-ruined-the-sopranos-ending/

http://www.mtv.com/news/1562298/journey-singer-insisted-on-knowing-sopranos-finale-before-allowing-song-use/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqup9ZZXIQg

 

 

[Stella]

9 hours ago, suomi said:

Links that pertain to the final episode. They discuss the same thing but there's a decent variety of nuance.

  Hide contents

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=3277439&page=1

https://bestclassicbands.com/journey-sopranos-final-scene-10-25-16/

https://www.today.com/popculture/journey-members-thrilled-sopranos-wbna19178289

https://calendar.songfacts.com/june/10/19243

https://people.com/celebrity/journeys-steve-perry-thinks-sopranos-finale-hit-right-note/

https://planetradio.co.uk/planet-rock/news/rock-news/journeys-steve-perry-reveals-how-he-nearly-ruined-the-sopranos-ending/

http://www.mtv.com/news/1562298/journey-singer-insisted-on-knowing-sopranos-finale-before-allowing-song-use/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqup9ZZXIQg

 

 

Gosh thanks for all these links! They will keep me busy for awhile. I am fully spoiled (I think) about the series. It's been interesting read this thread to see how people felt about the characters. Sadly I'm not sure I'm going to make it to the end before my HBO subscription ends. I just started season 5 and I think I've got about 9 or 10 days left 😂. But so many episodes in season 6....not sure I can cram them in before June 21.

[LemonSoda]

iTunes has the complete series on sale right now for $39.99. It’s usually $129. 

[VCRTracking]

 

 

[BetterButter]

James Gandolfini (as Tony Soprano) tried to convince LeBron James to play for the Knicks

[BetterButter]

Two Assholes Lost in the Woods: An Oral History of ‘Pine Barrens’

Quote

Twenty years after it aired, David Chase and Co. look back on the one of the wildest, boldest, funniest episodes of ‘The Sopranos’ ever made

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Someone was selling the first 5 seasons on DVD so I picked it up. I haven't watched the show since it ended (I probably watched season 1 on VHS). It still is really good.

One thing that surprised me is how they made everyone pretty much terribly evil right from the start. When Chris hijacks the truck in episode 2 the guy asks to get hit or tied up so they won't think he is in on it. Chris and Brendan kick the crap out of him. Plus all the not at all subtle racism and homophobia. None of these guys are decent people deep down who reluctantly chose a life of crime.

The dated stuff is pretty funny like DVD vs Laserdisc and the jokes about the fake Starbucks not having regular coffee. The most dated thing though was the next episode promos.

Interested in seeing Many Saints of Newark. In his first therapy session Tony basically says he feels he missed out on the Golden age of the mob. But Livia's house that she says she had with Tony's dad is super modest. And she still drives a 60s Oldsmobile.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[Kel Varnsen]

On 7/19/2016 at 11:46 AM, Princess Sparkle said:

This is so shallow, I know, but what's always striking to me when you go back to the first season is how thin James Gandolfini looks as compared to the rest of the series.  I know he was told to keep his weight up, because HBO didn't want a skinny Tony, but he is markedly thinner in the first season as compared to the last.

How thin and young Gandolfini looked was surprising, but what surprised me more was how old they made Edie Falco look. She was mid 30's when the show stared and I think Carmela was supposed to be approaching 40. But looking at her face even for 40 they made her look kind of rough. It's to the point where Edie Falco looks younger in Nurse Jackie. 

But it makes sense since Carmela has been probably wearing tons of make up since she was 12 and probably a regular user of tanning beds. It also wouldn't surprise me to find out that she smoked before she had kids. So it's some nice make up work how they made her face look kind of aged like that.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

On 5/11/2021 at 8:46 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

None of these guys are decent people deep down who reluctantly chose a life of crime.

It makes sense, though. They voluntarily entered a dangerous life that had the side benefit of meaning they didn't have to follow the normal rules of society.

Even non-mafiosi such as Artie and Charmaine had no problem taking Tony and company's blood money. The FBI agents had no problem putting people's lives in danger if it meant they got what they wanted. Witness them coercing Adrianna into cooperating, laughing at her behind her back, then getting her killed. Or the lack of sympathy when Pussy was killed. Or the DoJ higher-up ordering them to investigate all the jurors when Junior's trial had a hung jury.

The only genuinely good adults on the show might be Melfi, her ex-husband, and Dr. Krakauer (who told Carmella to get away from the Mafia and refused payment because it was blood money).