S12.E22: The Maternal Conclusion

[EllenB]

I thought Beverly took off her glasses just so they wouldn't get smudged, and the hug was her thinking "I suppose this is what I'm supposed to do for grown-up needy baby.  Let's get it over with." I honestly can't see that iceberg having an emotional epiphany without a LOT more raw conversation first.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, EllenB said:

I thought Beverly took off her glasses just so they wouldn't get smudged, and the hug was her thinking "I suppose this is what I'm supposed to do for grown-up needy baby.  Let's get it over with." I honestly can't see that iceberg having an emotional epiphany without a LOT more raw conversation first.

I too immediately assumed Beverly was just going through the motions of comforting Leonard, but I suppose, if she were a real life person and not a cartoonish character (the way Beverly is written) that real-life Beverly might have an epiphany at that moment, triggered by the physical act of hugging her son.

[Trey]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I too immediately assumed Beverly was just going through the motions of comforting Leonard, but I suppose, if she were a real life person and not a cartoonish character (the way Beverly is written) that real-life Beverly might have an epiphany at that moment, triggered by the physical act of hugging her son.

I thought Beverly was really having some feels and was comforting Leonard.  This episode was The Maternal Conclusion after all so I'm pretty sure it was the best it was ever going to be.

When we heard the crying, was it supposed to be both of them? 

[Homily]

Just now, Trey said:

I thought Beverly was really having some feels and was comforting Leonard.  This episode was The Maternal Conclusion after all so I'm pretty sure it was the best it was ever going to be.

I agree,  I found that moment very touching.  Now if BBT was continuing I wouldn't be surprised to have them walk that back and make Beverly less than sincere but since, as you say it's the Maternal Conclusion I felt that Beverly was being honest when she said she was glad that Leonard could forgive her.

[Chit Chat]

6 hours ago, Homily said:

Now if BBT was continuing I wouldn't be surprised to have them walk that back and make Beverly less than sincere but since, as you say it's the Maternal Conclusion I felt that Beverly was being honest when she said she was glad that Leonard could forgive her.

My problem with this episode is that it came out of the blue (as previously mentioned by others.)  If they hadn't spent so much time on the Nobel storyline, they could've worked up to this.  I'm having a hard time believing that Beverly is suddenly happy that Leonard has forgiven her.  I didn't think she was aware that she needed forgiving. She's always been so blasé about Leonard's feelings on this matter, so what really changed between them that they haven't already discussed?  She's never indicated that she was actually sorry for having treated him this way, except when she tried to do the maternal thing and hug him before.  It was when Mary was there.  It wasn't very sincere, but she gave it a try!  It was awkward though. 

I really don't have high hopes that I'm going to like the finale if this episode was a precursor of things to come.  I'm glad that some of you guys liked it, but it was a big disappointment for me.  Fingers crossed that I'll be pleasantly surprised!  

[Sarah 103]

On 5/9/2019 at 9:48 PM, ChitChat said:

Leonard has always felt inferior to his siblings because they are more accomplished, so I thought a fun scene would be where Beverly actually reveals that she's the most proud of him because he is the happiest of her kids (we don't know that, but it's kind of how I wanted it to happen.)  He may not be the most accomplished out of the siblings, but he has a job, friends and a wife that he loves and he seems to be the happiest with his life.  That's just my dream.

On 5/10/2019 at 7:42 AM, ChitChat said:

What I've always wondered about Leonard's siblings is if Beverly treated them the same way.  Are they happy?  What kind of relationship do they have with their Mom?  If they were all treated equally, why didn't Leonard find solace with either of them?  These are things I wish they would've addressed this past season.  

My theory is that Beverly is manipulating all of her children. We only hear from Leonard who is convinced heis the dissapointment, but what if each sibling thinks they are the dissapointment and the others are the favorites. In my head, this would have come out when all of the siblings are in room and talking to each other. Talking turns into an argument, and then they calm down and realize what has been happening. 

[Chit Chat]

8 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

We only hear from Leonard who is convinced heis the dissapointment, but what if each sibling thinks they are the dissapointment and the others are the favorites. In my head, this would have come out when all of the siblings are in room and talking to each other. Talking turns into an argument, and then they calm down and realize what has been happening. 

We're on the same wavelength!!  I'm disappointed that we never got to meet his siblings.  There are so many things that should've been addressed with the show, but we will be left wondering about many of them.  

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I'm disappointed that we never got to meet his siblings. 

If this were a different kind of show, and if JG was a different kind of comedian, he could have worn drag and beards to be his siblings. It could have been funny to discover that they were all alike.

[Trey]

12 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

My theory is that Beverly is manipulating all of her children. We only hear from Leonard who is convinced heis the dissapointment, but what if each sibling thinks they are the dissapointment and the others are the favorites. In my head, this would have come out when all of the siblings are in room and talking to each other. Talking turns into an argument, and then they calm down and realize what has been happening. 

There was an episode of Perfect Strangers many years ago where that happened.  The Mark Linn Baker character always felt inferior to his brother but when the brother came to visit it turned out he always felt inferior.  They realized that, instead of hating each other, they should have been hating their parents.

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

If this were a different kind of show, and if JG was a different kind of comedian, he could have worn drag and beards to be his siblings. It could have been funny to discover that they were all alike.

That would have been hilarious!

Edited May 13, 2019 by Trey

[ForReal]

16 hours ago, ChitChat said:

I'm having a hard time believing that Beverly is suddenly happy that Leonard has forgiven her.  I didn't think she was aware that she needed forgiving.

I took it as that she knows she's cold, and she either can't or won't help it, but that she's glad that Leonard understands that and doesn't hate her for it.

[TigerLynx]

I wish they would have left the resolution of the Leonard/Beverly relationship at the episode where Beverly told Leonard he had married well.  At this late date, I really don't believe there would be much if any change in Beverly.

I liked Amy skewering Sheldon with the look and - paraphrasing here - thank you for making it so easy for me to be here for Leonard since you are to much of a jerk to be a good friend to him.

It's interesting that Stuart has managed to work things out with his girlfriend, but Raj is headed back to being single.  It reminds me of Raj's outburst - "I will still be the guy who got a girlfriend after Sheldon Cooper."

[LoneHaranguer]

On 5/10/2019 at 9:40 AM, Pop Tart said:

Or how about just saying "don't be an asshole, your friend is in pain"? That would work too.

Wouldn't that just be Sheldon's cue to get his friend a hot beverage?

[Chit Chat]

7 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I liked Amy skewering Sheldon with the look and - paraphrasing here - thank you for making it so easy for me to be here for Leonard since you are to much of a jerk to be a good friend to him.

This show hasn't been very consistent with Sheldon in many of these episodes.  We've seen where he's capable of reading someone's emotions and has actually responded like a normal human being would, then there are times like this that he was completely oblivious to Leonard's pain.  Just when I think that's he's growing emotionally, then he reverts back to his obnoxious behavior.  It makes no sense.  I guess they do whatever's convenient for a storyline.

[shapeshifter]

34 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

This show hasn't been very consistent with Sheldon in many of these episodes.  We've seen where he's capable of reading someone's emotions and has actually responded like a normal human being would, then there are times like this that he was completely oblivious to Leonard's pain.  Just when I think that's he's growing emotionally, then he reverts back to his obnoxious behavior.  It makes no sense.  I guess they do whatever's convenient for a storyline.

Yes, and with only 17 minutes of dialogue spread over 9 characters and 3 plots, I guess they can't spare an explanatory line about Sheldon being more wrapped up in himself than usual (if that's possible) over the Nobel.

[NoReally]

Quote

She's never indicated that she was actually sorry for having treated him this way, except when she tried to do the maternal thing and hug him before.  It was when Mary was there.  It wasn't very sincere, but she gave it a try!  It was awkward though. 

This led to one of my favorite little exchanges:

Beverly: Oh, my son.

Leonard: Oh, my mother.

Penny: Oh, my God!

[Katy M]

23 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

It's interesting that Stuart has managed to work things out with his girlfriend, but Raj is headed back to being single.  It reminds me of Raj's outburst - "I will still be the guy who got a girlfriend after Sheldon Cooper."

It's because he's never satisfied. I'm not saying he should settle for someone he doesn't love, but every time he does have a girlfriend he immediately starts looking for someone better.  I think he was dating Emily and Lucy at the same time, or Emily and someone else.  And, then while he was dating Emily (I think) he wanted the scriptwriter.  And, it kind of seems to be at odds with his big romantic movie mindset.  The guys in those movies don't get the girl and then immediately try for the next one.

The only relationship breakup I wouldn't put on him is Deaf Emily who was just dating him for his money.  Even when he went out on girls' night with Penny and Amy, he said he wouldn't accept less than a 7 or something like that.

Howard, who from the beginning you would have thought would be more like that, has been totally about Bernie since they got together.  Yes, he wanted to know which waitress liked him, but I have no doubt that he just wanted to know. Had he found out, he wouldn't have pursued her.

[TigerLynx]

16 hours ago, ChitChat said:

This show hasn't been very consistent with Sheldon in many of these episodes.  We've seen where he's capable of reading someone's emotions and has actually responded like a normal human being would, then there are times like this that he was completely oblivious to Leonard's pain.  Just when I think that's he's growing emotionally, then he reverts back to his obnoxious behavior.  It makes no sense.  I guess they do whatever's convenient for a storyline.

I'm going with since Sheldon's social circle has slowly expanded (Penny, Amy, Bernie, etc.), and they stand up to him more than the guys (Leonard, Raj, Howard) used to, he's learning, but it's at a snail's pace, and he occasionally relapses.  In the early seasons, Leonard would sometimes point out to Sheldon his behavior wasn't appropriate (the time Sheldon accidentally stole Raj's date, which really should have clued Raj into his own shortcomings), but mostly the guys just gave into Sheldon with Penny going why do you all put up with this.

26 minutes ago, Katy M said:

It's because he's never satisfied. I'm not saying he should settle for someone he doesn't love, but every time he does have a girlfriend he immediately starts looking for someone better.  I think he was dating Emily and Lucy at the same time, or Emily and someone else.  And, then while he was dating Emily (I think) he wanted the scriptwriter.  And, it kind of seems to be at odds with his big romantic movie mindset.  The guys in those movies don't get the girl and then immediately try for the next one.

Good point and very true.

[PentaHookUp]

On 5/12/2019 at 11:27 AM, Trey said:

I thought Beverly was really having some feels and was comforting Leonard.  This episode was The Maternal Conclusion after all so I'm pretty sure it was the best it was ever going to be.

I think so too.  I also think that Beverly had an epiphany. That’s an explanation that fits.  An epiphany is one sure thing that will bring someone to instant awareness and cause an immediate change in them.  It’s like a total “cleanse”; except not for the body—but, for the "soul".

[LoneHaranguer]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Even when he went out on girls' night with Penny and Amy, he said he wouldn't accept less than a 7 or something like that.

But didn't they call him out on that, saying that he'll take anyone who'll have him?

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I'm not saying he should settle for someone he doesn't love, but every time he does have a girlfriend he immediately starts looking for someone better. 

The girls were right in terms of what he does, but it's not what he really wants, so he keeps looking. Anu got him to stick around by getting his hopes up.

[possibilities]

I think it's a little of both extremes. He isn't satisfied, because he's looking for a romantic fantasy. But he also is never really himself, for the same reason. You can't have a real relationship if you are not honest, and if you are not open. It takes a certain amount of self-confidence and a certain amount of humility-- both. Raj started out without any self-confidence, over-corrected to be an arrogant jerk, and maybe has a shot at striking a balance if he's got all that out of his system.

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

But didn't they call him out on that, saying that he'll take anyone who'll have him?

That doesn't negate the fact that he was being a jerk.

[Crs97]

In Speechless (Sob - moment of silence for its cancellation please), the younger brother Ray is like Raj.  Of course he’s only 16 so it’s more understandable.  They had the girls in his grade finally call him out for treating them interchangeably, so desperate to have a girlfriend that he never bothered to try to get to know someone before wanting to date her.  He got it, opened up to them, and they decided he would be their class project junior year.  Much better outcome than Raj will get I fear.

[Bali]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 9:25 PM, PentaHookUp said:

Yvette the Vet – From your keyboard to His ears!

I LOVED YVETTE THE VET!!

[Bali]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 9:25 PM, Homily said:

Coincidentally there was a rerun tonight that was from season 10 and after Sheldon and Amy are living together where he references Amy having a harp lesson.   Not sure where she keeps that harp in that tiny apartment though!

It's in Penny and Leonard's spare bedroom. Everything else it, so why not her harp?

[Bali]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 6:13 PM, ChitChat said:

I really don't have high hopes that I'm going to like the finale if this episode was a precursor of things to come.  I'm glad that some of you guys liked it, but it was a big disappointment for me.  Fingers crossed that I'll be pleasantly surprised!  

Huh. I have a feeling that I might be upset- until Sunday. Then the GoT finale will have me so upset that I'll forget all about how I feel about this one ending.

[Booklady1017]

On 5/9/2019 at 9:39 PM, Jediknight said:

So, no Raj and Anu?  Could this lead to the return of a character we met in season 1 that like Raj, and we saw again last season?  Are they going to have Raj and Missy, be the endgame?

Is that the same Missy who's Sheldon's sister?

[Booklady1017]

On 5/9/2019 at 9:39 PM, chaifan said:

I wrote this in last week's episode thread:

"Here's how I'd like to see Leonard's final on-screen scene with Beverly:  Beverly does/says something (again) to totally put down Leonard.  Leonard stands up for himself - not in whiny way, but in a very adult, definitive - yet still somewhat respectful to his mother - way.  Something along the lines of "treat me like a full fledged adult or that's the end of our relationship".  Beverly pauses, nods, and says "I've been waiting 40 years for one of you to say that.  You're now my favorite."  Maybe even throws in a hug.  Wait, I take that back, that's one step too far. "

I guess the hug wasn't a step too far.  Way to go, Beverly.

That would have been a great scenario/scene for Beverly and Leonard. I did like what they did with them though.

On 5/9/2019 at 9:40 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I really liked the Leonard/Beverly story.  Of course she comes to visit as part of some experiment but due to Penny’s (and the rest of his friends) influence Leonard has grown in confidence enough to confront her about his needs and ultimately understand who she is as a person and forgive her.   I thought that was an incredible story.

I do like that Leonard has grown up and gained confidence and was able to confront her.

[Booklady1017]

On 5/10/2019 at 7:37 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I think people were expecting too much out of the Beverly/Leonard scene.  I Thought the entire thing (except for the Sheldon stuff he acted like a needless jerk) was perfect.  Beverly hurt Leonard deeply but Leonard has grown over the years and instead of just stewing in it he ranted to his friends and then confronted his mother.  This was all very adult.   Even Beverly’s reaction ended up being adult.  So to have Leonard not want Beverly in his life or home to me would have taken away the adult nature of the whole thing.  Maybe if this wasn’t the last appearance of Beverly it would make sense but to kick her to the curb seems childish to me.  So I like this way better.  Leonard realization that if he wants his mother in his life he needs to accept her for who she is.  

I think the version they did with Beverly and Leonard was the most realistic and well done.

[Ottis]

On 5/9/2019 at 7:54 PM, SmithW6079 said:

Raj and Anu liked each other. To me that's a good start to a relationship. I'm annoyed that Howard fed Raj's unrealistically romantic notions of what marriage is.

I thought Howard and Bernadette's reaction was strange and selfish. Do they not like or trust Anu, and if so, why? Unless there was something they know that we don't, it felt like they were putting their own needs above Raj's. Maybe Anu is the right person to make his life complete. And living in London would be fun. They could all visit. regardless, they aren't all going to be stuck where they are now forever. At some point, one or more of them will move.

[shapeshifter]

29 minutes ago, Ottis said:

thought Howard and Bernadette's reaction was strange and selfish. Do they not like or trust Anu, and if so, why? Unless there was something they know that we don't, it felt like they were putting their own needs above Raj's

Yes, Howard and Bernadette were putting their own needs above Raj's, which isn't really strange for them. But maybe Raj will realize how much he really does want to at least try to make a life together with Anu because Howard and Bernadette just made it harder to do that. 

Edited May 16, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Ottis]

11 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, Howard and Bernadette were putting their own needs above Raj's, which isn't really strange for them. But maybe Raj will realize how much he really does want to at least try to make a life together with Anu because Howard and Bernadette just made it harder to do that. 

If that's the case, and it may be, I'm not disagreeing, the show sure didn't play it that way. The show made it look like Howard and Bernie were the heroes, caring about Raj. I don't post in this thread enough (and I'm not a big enough fan of BBT) to know if your take is a majority or minority take. I'll just say I was confused about how the show portrayed Howard and Bernie here, and how their actions actually seemed to be the opposite of how the show portrayed them. At least from my casual watcher position.

[Homily]

I saw Bernadette and Howard as being concerned about Raj.  They felt they knew enough about Anu to know that she wouldn't react to a big romantic proposal the way Raj expected her to and, more importantly, the way they felt Raj deserves to have a woman react.  I didn't see their actions as self-serving.

[John Potts]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 2:54 AM, SmithW6079 said:

The Raj story line was idiotic. They should have let him go to England. What was the point of the whole arranged marriage plot? Raj and Anu liked each other. To me that's a good start to a relationship. I'm annoyed that Howard fed Raj's unrealistically romantic notions of what marriage is. The clichéd airport scene, with gay misunderstanding of course, was tiresome.

Totally agree! I get that sitcoms can't really change during their run because we have to remain essentially where they started - but the show is over (OK, there's one more episode) you can alter things and it no longer matters. I hated the ending of Friends and Sex in the City for hitting the reset button even in the last episode too.

As for whether they're a good match - they seem happy enough together. I really don't buy the "There is a perfect person out there waiting for you" idea. No marriage is perfect, you have to make the best of what you have. Or accept you're always going to be chasing an impossible dream.

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 4:44 AM, EllenB said:

The adult me wishes ONE of the characters would have told Beverly, "Having a different opinion than you is NOT the same as having a tantrum.  Stop trying to control people that way." Again, preferably Penny, who has common sense.

Or at least say, "You don't get to tell me what to do in my house. While you're staying here, you will respect me or you can stay somewhere else." But easy to say when it's not my mother!

[2727]

Howard outright asked Raj if Anu was his true love and the only person he could envision a future with. Raj could not say yes, and that's what spurred Howard and Bernie to get him to change his mind about moving. They were certainly medding and think they know what's best for him better than he does, but I don't see their interference as being self interest or simply not wanting their friend to leave.

[Friendly kitty]

Since I watched the episode yesterday, I’ll still write here, even though everyone is discussing only the final ...
Howard and Raj at the airport - one of the most romantic scenes in the show! My heart is melting ... Oda to friendship !!!
And yes, it’s right that Raj didn’t go to his girlfriend. There he will have no one to communicate with, except for her, and with Anu he doesn’t have such strong feelings ... So let him be alone, but his most loyal friends will be with him.😍

[Meushell]

I feel like the resolution between Leonard and Beverly was him accepting abuse. Very disturbing. I’m glad Penny tried, but I wished she had done more. I want Beverly kicked out of their lives for good. 

So that’s the end of Anu? What another disappointment. Howard went to the airport for completely selfish reasons. It wasn’t for Raj at all. They might not be ready for marriage yet, but they can figure out together what they want.