S05.E21: The Girl With The Red Lightning

[Trini]

Quote

Team Flash is on high alert after Cicada II (guest star Sarah Carter) threatens to unleash a dangerous virus that would put all meta-humans at risk.

Stefan Pleszczynski directed the episode written by Judalina Neira & Thomas Pound.

Airdate: 5/7/2019

[SimoneS]

The best thing about this episode? We only have one more to go.

Ralph for the win! Someone finally using their brain trying to figure out what Thawne is really up to. It is so obvious that figuring out what his real motivation is the answer to stopping Grace, but no one else is going there.

I liked Ralph forming his hand into a sharp weapon. Has he ever done that before?

Because it can't be said enough times; Barry's suit is downright awful! I really hope that they give him a new one next season.

Kimberly Williams-Paisley is so lovely. I don't understand why she didn't have a much bigger acting career. 

ETA: I just realized that it was the dagger or a piece of it in the jacket that Thawne was wearing. That is how they dampened his powers and stopped him from escaping. With the dagger destroyed, he will be able to escape. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by SimoneS

[Jediknight]

Ralph was freaking awesome.  He finally asked what Thawne's plan was.  It seemed like everybody just brushed it off, and there was Ralph to realize something doesn't add up.  And then figuring out what the plan was.  Great episode for Ralph.

Of course, Team Flash has Shecada knocked out, and they stand around doing nothing.  Don't restrain her or anything, just stand around waiting for her to regain conscious, no way that could have gone wrong.  At least there's only one more episode of Team Flash being complete idiots when it comes to Cicada.  And then in all likelihood back to the show's best villain, Wellsobard.

I was expecting Adler to get killed dead when saying goodbye to Sherloque.  Good to see she's still alive, for now.

[tennisgurl]

Wait, you mean Thawne cant be trusted and was manipulating Nora to get what he wanted?! I for one am shocked, shocked, to discover this!

[SimoneS]

And without Nora pushing Thawne's plan to destroy the dagger on them, Team Flash would have likely figured out a way to stop Grace without destroying the dagger. They would have just locked it up or sent it to a dead world. Thanks for nothing, Nora.

I bet next week they are all letting her off the hook for letting Thawne dupe her. I, on the other hand, plan to drag her as she so richly deserves, especially since she proclaimed herself a thoughtful adult and not a tempestuous child tonight.  

Edited May 8, 2019 by SimoneS

[quarks]

Nora: I'm an adult!

Me: Good to see this show hasn't lost its comedic touch!

[BeautifulFlower]

Meh is all I got for this episode.

If Grace didn't have the daggers in the future, then where did she get them? She had two when she first arrived.

I don't care for Sherloque and whomever the woman was.

[Lantern7]

Well, at least the frustration felt by many about Arrow isn't too prevalent here. Given how this series will be the flagship of the Arrowverse starting in 2020, it's going to have to step up and cause fewer headaches.

Ralph figured things out. Who woulda thunk it?!? I know, he's a detective, but he's been played as a putz for so long. At least he was grasping the concept of multiple timelines a lot better, and he figured Thrawne's connection to the She-cada. Oh, and that villain is referred to as "Cicada II." Given that Ralph thought that Harry was from "Earth, too," that might be a cute wink to the audience.

I'm ready for Nora to go home for good. Or get erased entirely. I mean, I like the concept, and her moments where she isn't petulant are nice (and I got this sketch of her and her canon inspiration), but I think she's done all she could. Also, there's a good chance she gets wiped out because Barry and Iris have been too wrapped up in Cicadas to conceive her.

At least the side trips to 2049 make sense. I still don't know what the deal is with the flash-forwards on Arrow. I reckon those aren't that much fun without Legends being involved. Tehy weren't in "Elseworlds," so they never met Nora. "Awwww . . . doesn't she look like Barry and Iris?!?" "And she creates angst and time disturbances. She really is Barry's kid!" Still.I can't understand how Thrawne is still alive. Even if you go back and forth in his life, I can't reconcile this season with the first season. Or the second season of Legends. Or "Crisis On Earth-X."

48 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

I was expecting Adler to get killed dead when saying goodbye to Sherloque.  Good to see she's still alive, for now.

I know, right? I kept looking for vultures following her, brandishing giant knives and forks. And was it shitty for Sherloque to give her an escape from She-cade, when there were a buttload of (extraneous) metahumans in danger? I think it was. Then again, aren't all Wellses assholes a lot of the time?

Edited May 8, 2019 by Lantern7

[Maverick]

 Please, please stop having Killer Frost acting like a bad ass bitch if she's  just going to get her ass handed to her every. single. time.  It's embarrassing.

 So the dagger was being used to rob Thawne of his powers and that's what he wants Team Flash to destroy it.   But...if Cicada was never stopped as Nora related in the beginning, how did future law enforcement get the dagger to subdue Thawne?

 What the hell is Adler going to do when she gets to the other Earth?   she knows nothing about it, didn't take anything with her and...I'm assuming has a doppleganger there.   

Edited May 8, 2019 by Maverick

[mxc90]

In the beginning of this season Ralph was amazed by time travel (had no clue). I guess he done some serious studying on this subject when he was absent from episodes.

[BeautifulFlower]

1 minute ago, Maverick said:

 Please, please stop having Killer Frost acting like a bad ass bitch if she's  just going to get her ass handed to her every. single. time.  It's embarrassing.

I have to laugh. They tried to hype her up as the key to defeating Cicada. Even the actress playing older Grace did an interview talking about Killer Frost being a threat to Grace. Where is at?

[Lady Calypso]

Wow, I went from hating Ralph so much that I didn't finish season 4 to having him be the total MVP for this season. You go, Ralph!

The West-Allens all sucked this episode. I'm sick of Iris and Barry both being blinded by their adult daughter, who is the same age as them, and making the dumbest choices. 

I'm glad Renee survived and went to Sherloque's Earth. I wonder if he'll make it out this season to go with her. My thought is that he probably will. 

I was totally worried about Cisco dying in this episode, I'm not gonna lie.  

[SimoneS]

7 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

If Grace didn't have the daggers in the future, then where did she get them? She had two when she first arrived.

Grace had two weapons that might have been made out of the satellite shards, but did not have Orlin's large powerful dagger. That dagger was being used in the future to restrain and dampen Thawne's powers.

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I was totally worried about Cisco dying in this episode, I'm not gonna lie.  

Me too. I thought that Grace was going to kill him and that would be the end of Cisco. I was surprised that he didn't announce that he was going to take the meta human cure.

[Jediknight]

10 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 What the hell is Adler going to do when she gets to the other Earth?   she knows nothing about it, didn't take anything with her and...I'm assuming has a doppleganger there.   

Sherloque said he's got some friends waiting, so they'll probably look after her till Sherloque pops back in.

[KirkB]

Well, show, I didn't think it was possible. But you've actually made me like Ralph. They've toned him down a lot this season and were even smart enough to keep him away when he had nothing to contribute. And he's the one who figured what Thawne was up to. As concerned as Barry was for Thawne messing with his daughter he didn't bother to ask why.

I, too, feel bad for Killer Frost. If she's going to just get knocked out every time they might need to change her name.

Seriously? You actually have Cicada down and no one brought meta dampening cuffs? You know, like the ones you had earlier in the episode and thought to bring with you when she was after Sherloque's girlfriend?

Speaking of, this version of Wells doesn't bother me nearly as much as HR did. Still, I won't be sad to see him go.

Nora either. I liked her at first but I really want her to go home now.

[SimoneS]

I rewatched the final scene. The large Cicada dagger is definitely strapped to Thawne. Ralph remembered Thawne looking down at the jacket and made the connection to the dagger. I was partially right about the jacket being used to somehow dampen his powers.

Spoiler

In the preview, the dagger isn't destroyed as yet. So something must stop Barry from destroying at CCPD.

[tennisgurl]

Seriously, why do people listen to Nora?! She is clearly a child, and Barry and Iris placating her is just ridiculous, and will be even more ridiculous next week when they inevitably dont blame her for playing right into Thawnes hands like an idiot. I mean, obviously he was up to some evil plan, why did no one see this except for Barry, and when he said the obvious, everyone treated HIM like the asshole! Thawne is always the asshole! Nora needs to wake up and smell the obvious, and while I get that the situation with Iris and Barry as parents is weird, being the same age as their daughter, they still need to tell her to stop being an idiot!

The MVP of the episode was clearly Ralph, who was just awesome all episode, working to figure out what Thawnes plan was when everyone else kept blowing it off, was smart enough to put all the pieces together, was supportive during meetings, and even did some pretty cool fighting (him turning his arm into a knife was badass!) all throughout. Who knew that Ralph would end up becoming one of the bright spots of the show!?

For as much hype as Killer Frost gets for being a badass, she sure gets beat up a lot. People hype her up as an ultimate fighter, then whale all over her, she is basically the Worf of Team Flash. 

Seriously, why does no one think to put some meta cuffs on Cidada?! Just throw her in jail, you've had so many chances now! Joe is a cop, you presumably know that arresting people is a thing!

Glad that Irene survived, and that she didnt have to give up her powers. No matter how much danger people are in from Cicada, you would think more people would want to keep their powers, even if they dont use them all that much in their day to day lives. Or maybe, if Cicada is mostly just killing metas in the city, they could just take a vacation? I mean, as long as they avoid disaster magnet Star City, they can just wait for this to blow over!

[adora721]

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Worf of Team Flash

Bite your tongue🤣! Worf  is a boss.

[SimoneS]

At CCPD, did Grace take away all the metas' powers for good? I would give anything for Cecile's empathy or whatever power to be gone permanently.

And it is difficult for me believe that Joe was struggling so much when he was put in charge. I am pretty sure that one of the time that David left previously that Joe was in charge. Joe should have been smooth as silk.

[Maverick]

14 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

At CCPD, did Grace take away all the metas' powers for good? I would give anything for Cecile's empathy or whatever power to be gone permanently.

And it is difficult for me believe that Joe was struggling so much when he was put in charge. I am pretty sure that one of the time that David left previously that Joe was in charge. Joe should have been smooth as silk.

 The Joe struggling plot was just strange.   What was stranger?   Singh having to "leave in the morning for city hall".   He made it sound like it was the 1800s and he was going to have to make a two day trek by covered wagon to reach the county seat, not go two blocks over to the mayor's office.

[BeautifulFlower]

I really didn't like how they had Caitlin be the one to make more cure. It should've been Cisco. I assuming he's the one who actually did the most work on it.

[catrice2]

I come every now and then just to say I cannot believe how bad this show has become.  Nora is a petulant, useless character and I think the actress is horrible.  I had issues with the show before she came, but it has become 10x worse with her. 

[david gideon]

Apparently there's no Food and Drug Administration in Flashworld, since anyone can cook up a home-brew miracle drug, test it in secret, and then start distributing it without bothering with any of those pesky government approvals. In fact, they can get the police department to help them do it!

[adora721]

I just recalled that, in S1, when James Jesse (that's Mark Hamil's Trickster) poisoned a room full of people, including Iris, the Flash zoomed in with a tranquilizer gun/needle with an antidote. He gave everyone the antitode within seconds. Why didn't Barry just do that this time at CCPD? It would have moved things along a lot faster.

Or even have XS zip through the crowd of metas giving each the cure. That way, Nora would be relatively safe with her Popop while the rest of the team continued looking for Shecada. And sure, Shecada would have shown up at CCPD eventually, but you knew Nora was going to have to meet up with her again anyway.

[Trini]

Oh, now Nora is an adult? Way to address your sucky decision in the second-to-last episode, writers. The dialog in that whole scene was clunky.

Come on, only one scene with Capt. Singh? I'm always glad to see him; and I don't get why they don't use him more.

Mirror gun: "Where did it go?" "It doesn't matter." Ummmmmmm - famous last words those are. Maybe, if the writers never ever bring it up again, but there's a good chance they will.

The Joe/Cecile/CCPD/cure distribution plot felt like "busy work" to me. It was just there to give those characters something to do; and I don't think it's going to impact much of anything. I did like that Joe was on the receiving end of a pep talk, though!

I wish the time they spent on the Love Interest of This Year's Irrelevant Wells was instead spent on Ralph figuring out Thawne's plan, or on the bigger implications of distributing a metahuman cure, or even Thawne himself.

I was scared for Cisco for a minute there -- I was thinking that he'd stop the virus/bomb thingy from killing everyone else, but then he get dosed in the process. He'd survive, but without his powers. So glad that didn't happen!

Oh really, Thawne has been screwing with everyone this whole time? This is my surprised face --> 😐

Are they going to show us the 'flashback' to Gracada working with Thawne? Because it doesn't make sense that she knows all that stuff about Team Flash's history. How?

Edited May 8, 2019 by Trini

[Trini]

3 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Please, please stop having Killer Frost acting like a bad ass bitch if she's  just going to get her ass handed to her every. single. time.  It's embarrassing.

EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

For as much hype as Killer Frost gets for being a badass, she sure gets beat up a lot. People hype her up as an ultimate fighter, then whale all over her, she is basically the Worf of Team Flash. 

How dare you?!! At least Worf has a few legit kills, and a way more interesting and better written family story.
 

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I really didn't like how they had Caitlin be the one to make more cure. It should've been Cisco. I assuming he's the one who actually did the most work on it.

I was totally fine with her doing busywork offscreen, while Cisco actually got to stop the virus bomb.

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Mirror gun: "Where did it go?" "It doesn't matter." Ummmmmmm - famous last words those are. Maybe, it the writers never ever bring it up again, but there's a good chance they will.

They're bringing it up again, it was Thawne's plan for the Mirror Gun to get used.

[Trini]

Okay 2 more things before bed: Hated that yet again Cisco's powers are (un)conveniently "useless" at the climax. It just happens too many times. And the particular excuse they gave this time seemed really weak to me. The virus bomb would go off if he breached it, but it would gone by then, right?

Not to say I don't appreciate Cisco 'sciencing' stuff; but they spent so much time giving him powers, then they de-power him as often as possible.

I don't know if we'll get an explanation next week (I'm not counting on it), but here's the problem I have with Cicada dagger being used to de-power Eobard Thawne in the future*; it brings up so many questions. Questions that will probably will not get answered; or won't be answered satisfyingly; questions that should have already been answered. How did Thawne get captured? Who captured him? They never caught Cicada, but who got his dagger and how? Why use this method in particular to control Thawne? WHAT IS TEAM FLASH UP TO IN THE FUTURE?? Because the Team actually has many options to stop a speedster; were they involved at all with his imprisonment?

*(well, besides the fact that it's literally a last minute reveal...)

1 hour ago, Jediknight said:

They're bringing it up again, it was Thawne's plan for the Mirror Gun to get used.

Yes, that's going to be resolved in the finale. I just saying Team Flash (and Cisco in particular) should absolutely care about the effects of the stolen tech that they know barely anything about.

A 'mirror gun' should connect to Mirror Master, and they explore the effects of the gun that way; but if they don't bring him back, I can see them handwaving it.

[thuganomics85]

I'm sorry, but did Barry say that one of the reasons he didn't want Nora to "connect' with Grace/Cicada was because she would know that they are at STAR Labs?  Even though Grace's literal introduction was her crashing STAR Labs?!  What in the living hell, Barry?!!  Haven't you already forgotten what happened mere episodes ago?!

Ralph Fucking Dibny has become the smartest person in the room and the biggest damn hero, folks!  Despite everyone talking down to him and telling him to focus on the task, he's the only one there questioning all of this time-travel nonsense and wondering how Eobard fits into all of it.  And guess what?  He figures it out!  It might end up being too little, too late, but that puts him miles ahead over everyone else who has apparently been hit with the stupid stick during these past few episodes.

Because sure enough, Eobard's grand plan was to have Cicada's dagger get teleported to him (thanks to Cisco's handy gun), so that he can't be executed since they are using his own power against him.  Yep, he totally was working a scheme this entire time.  And Nora and now Barry and Iris all played into his hand.  They make it so easy, don't they, Reverse Flash?!

Nice that the show remembered Adler exists/found it in their budget to get Kimberley Williams-Paisley back.  I guess her life is free enough that she can go to another planet without too much preparations or hassles.  Nice!

Joe suddenly not being able to be confident to lead to the squad without Singh seemed to come out of nowhere, but as usual, Jesse L. Martin sold the hell out of it.

Totally was thinking of Andy Samberg's "I'M AN ADULT!!!" line from The Lonely Island's "Threw it on the Ground" song, when Nora claimed that she's all grown-up now.  Ha!

Since I still generally like Barry and Iris, I don't want to give up on them, but I would be all for this season ending with them taking a vacation, and maybe letting Ralph and Cisco run Team Flash for a bit.  Because those two clearly need some time off to clear their heads, considering the majority of their decision making this season.

Can't wait till next week to see another round of Arrow vs. The Flash in the "Which season finale will disappointed the most?!" fight.  Because that's probably going to happen, sadly.

Edited May 8, 2019 by thuganomics85

[SimoneS]

The show hasn't explained how or why Grace traveled to the past, but I have always thought that it was somehow connected to Thawne. After last night, I have been thinking that maybe Grace is the only visitor that Thawne has had since he was locked up. He helped her time travel to the past so that she would arrive at Star Labs before Orlin gave Team Flash the dagger which is probably how the authorities got it and then used it dampen Thawne's powers in the future. According to the future newspaper article, Joe was likely the chief of police when Thawne was captured so he would have known about the dagger.

To prevent this, Thawne convinces Grace to time travel to the past to save her uncle and steal the dagger so that Team Flash instead would use Thawne's plan to destroy it, rather than locking it away until it could be used against him in the future. I know this is probably too much plot detail for the show. We might never get an explanation about how  and why Grace traveled to the past, but if this is part of the story, it would be to the show's credit.

Edited May 8, 2019 by SimoneS

[BeautifulFlower]

Honestly, I would have dismissed Ralph too. Yes, it was good he figured out the Thawne thing. However, it really wasn't the time. Of course it made sense for Barry, Iris, and the others to more focused on Grace. She was about to kill every meta, some of whom are innocent, in the city. They didn't have time to wait and listen to Ralph while Grace was completing her quest.

Again, I'm glad Ralph was smart and figured something was up. However, we can't get and at the others for not listening. They had a more important task on their hands.

[ottoDbusdriver]

So ..... many ... pep talks.

I didn't buy Joe getting all flustered dealing with meta crowd at CCPD.   Were all the CC metas just waiting in the elevators ..... together ..... waiting for that news announcement on TV so they could all get off the elevator at the same time ? Did they get a group rate or something getting to CCPD ?  Uber-Pool, maybe ?

Why didn't they at least slap a pair of regular cuffs on Shecada/Cicada 2/Cicadeux at the minimum while she was down, or even a pair of metacuffs since they know she has the dark matter in her head ?  Something, anything.  But no, they just stood around, and Ralph comments about how she's waking up.

Why does time move so slowly in 2049 ?  That clock outside Thawne's cell was at 10 minutes and counting down 3 episodes ago.  Yet, they are just getting around to executing him now.  Yeah, yeah, it's in the future, whatever.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I didn't buy Joe getting all flustered dealing with meta crowd at CCPD.   Were all the CC metas just waiting in the elevators ..... together ..... waiting for that news announcement on TV so they could all get off the elevator at the same time ? Did they get a group rate or something getting to CCPD ?  Uber-Pool, maybe ?

I gotta admit, I did get a chuckle out of Cecile feeling a wave of panic, letting Joe know that they were about to get swamped, followed by....a small crowd of people hurrying in. From Cecile's description, I was convinced there'd be hundreds of people swarming CCPD. I mean, I guess dozens of people panicking would affect Cecile, but I was expecting a much bigger crowd. I guess the show couldn't afford more than 40 extras. 

I just didn't get that feeling of panic like Cecile did, but I'm not a metahuman so what do I know?

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Why didn't they at least slap a pair of regular cuffs on Shecada/Cicada 2/Cicadeux at the minimum while she was down, or even a pair of metacuffs since they know she has the dark matter in her head ?  Something, anything.  But no, they just stood around, and Ralph comments about how she's waking up.

God, that was hilarious. Hey, she's waking up? Then slap cuffs on her....or do something other than staring at her.

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Why does time move so slowly in 2049 ?  That clock outside Thawne's cell was at 10 minutes and counting down 3 episodes ago.  Yet, they are just getting around to executing him now.  Yeah, yeah, it's in the future, whatever.

It's weird, but I'm guessing it's more because Nora kept going back to a specific time in the future. Actually, I found it somewhat smart of the show to do it this way; so often, when time travel's involved, they basically have it take place in real time. So Nora visiting Thawne on another show would have had her go visit in a matter of months for him. This time, it seems like she kept her visits in a smaller amount of time. Although I'm surprised the guard wasn't suspicious of this whenever Nora would leave and then come back within minutes. 

Honestly though, especially since Thawne being a speedster probably allowed him to experience time differently, I thought them writing it this way was surprisingly smart of the show. It was different, that's for sure.

[cdnalor]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

The show hasn't explained how or why Grace traveled to the past

She stole the STAR labs time bubble from her time.  I assume the bubble is capable of time travel on its own even though we saw Iris and Ralph use it in conjunction with the breacher gun, which made no sense.  As for why, I assume for revenge or to help her uncle.

[Trini]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Joe suddenly not being able to be confident to lead to the squad without Singh seemed to come out of nowhere, but as usual, Jesse L. Martin sold the hell out of it.

The show doesn't deserve him, but I'm glad he's still here.
 

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Can't wait till next week to see another round of Arrow vs. The Flash in the "Which season finale will disappointed the most?!" fight.  Because that's probably going to happen, sadly.

I don't know about Arrow, but Nora getting erased (my spec, not spoiler) might totally be worth it. (Again, I don't hate Nora, but it's the logical conclusion to all her shenanigans this season.)

[adora721]

4 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Why didn't they at least slap a pair of regular cuffs on Shecada/Cicada 2/Cicadeux at the minimum while she was down, or even a pair of metacuffs since they know she has the dark matter in her head ?  Something, anything.  But no, they just stood around, and Ralph comments about how she's waking up.

No, only criminals like Goldface make sure to have meta dampening cuffs at the ready for visitors.😄

And clearly the writers don't pay any attention to previous episodes or the writing of others. Nora's line about learning to be a hero or using her powers from Barry was half-baked. As was her line about how she no longer does things without thinking like she did when she first got there. She's still doing things without thinking.  And Barry's line about how, "We taught you to be a hero" is also half-baked. 

[rmontro]

I hate to be that guy, but if the Flash destroys the dagger here in the present:

How is it part of Thawne's jacket in the future?

If it's destroyed in the past, Thawne is never imprisoned with it, and there's no reason to send Nora back to destory it.  Time paradox!

[SimoneS]

I think that when the dagger is destroyed in the past/present, it will be immediately destroyed in the future in the same moment so Thawne will be able to escape rather than it having never been used to restrain him in prison for 15 years. Like when Iris carved the lightning bolt in the time sphere in the past/present and it immediately appeared on the time sphere from the future that Grace time traveled in.

[rmontro]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I think that when the dagger is destroyed in the past/present, it will be immediately destroyed in the future in the same moment so Thawne will be able to escape rather than it having never been used to restrain him in prison for 15 years. Like when Iris carved the lightning bolt in the time sphere in the past/present and it immediately appeared on the time sphere from the future that Grace time traveled in.

Yeah, but by definition, it's not "in the same moment".  The past is the past, and the future is the future.

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

Yeah, but by definition, it's not "in the same moment".  The past is the past, and the future is the future.

If you destroy the dagger in the present of 2019, you destroy the future history of the dagger -- so Thawne probably never would have been in prison in the first place, since they couldn't dampen his powers.

And then there's the fact that the dagger has a very wide meta-power dampening range, so how would Nora have zipped in/out of the area outside of Thawne's cell -- if she had no powers while she was there.

[adora721]

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And then there's the fact that the dagger has a very wide meta-power dampening range, so how would Nora have zipped in/out of the area outside of Thawne's cell -- if she had no powers while she was there.

This is a very excellent point.  I also question the need for the dagger since Iron Heights in 2019 has a meta wing that dampens powers, which is why Barry and others couldn't use their powers in S4 while imprisoned. 2049 meta-dampening technology should far exceed 2019 technology. The dagger is just a macguffin.

[Trini]

So it's now public knowledge that STAR Labs has a free metahuman cure available. Let's see if this ever comes up again on the show.

---

I really hope the showrunner for next season tightens things up. There's no good reason why Barry didn't have a real arc this season, or for making Barry, Iris, and Nora look like chumps for a plot "twist" with Thawne that everyone saw coming from miles away.

[adora721]

9 hours ago, Trini said:

So it's now public knowledge that STAR Labs has a free metahuman cure available. Let's see if this ever comes up again on the show.

---

I really hope the showrunner for next season tightens things up. There's no good reason why Barry didn't have a real arc this season, or for making Barry, Iris, and Nora look like chumps for a plot "twist" with Thawne that everyone saw coming from miles away.

Agreed.

I hope we have a showrunner who also knows that romance doesn't die when you become a parent, especially to a full-fledged adult. Parenthood isn't where romance goes to die, Helbing.

[Quark]

I really liked this episode and it sets things up nicely for the finale.

Far better than Arrow.

[Cthulhudrew]

On 5/8/2019 at 4:31 PM, rmontro said:

Yeah, but by definition, it's not "in the same moment".  The past is the past, and the future is the future.

Yes, and this is the big stupid about most time travel stories, and this one in particular. We're supposed to somehow believe that even though Nora and Thawne are in the future, that timeline is running exactly in parallel with Team Flash's "present" such that the countdown clock somehow relates to events in that timeframe, and destroying the dagger in the past will only affect that precise present of Thawne's timeline... yet as has been pointed out, it should instead have a ripple effect  through time completely negating all the events that lead to Thawne's imprisonment. You know, kind of like how Eddie killing himself in Team Flash's present wiped out Eobard's original timeline, rather than one specific moment in the "future."

It's timey-wimey-gobbledygook that the writers don't want us to look at too closely because it will ruin the storyline they're working on and also contradicts their own (inconsistent) time travel stories.

Kind of like how the introduction of this "negative Speedforce" doesn't seem to fit with any of Thawne's established history, either. (Why wasn't Thawne using that to evade the Black Flash before?)

Glad to see this season coming to an end.

On another note, does this episode mean that Cecile's powers have been removed permanently? It is bad enough that they were just randomly introduced for no apparent reason other than a silly "My wife can literally read my mind" story, then downgraded to "She's overly emotionally sensitive ever since the baby came." They did manage to use them effectively once or twice, but there never seemed much purpose or need, and now they may just be gone again?

On 5/8/2019 at 5:34 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

And then there's the fact that the dagger has a very wide meta-power dampening range, so how would Nora have zipped in/out of the area outside of Thawne's cell -- if she had no powers while she was there.

Maybe that vest Thawne was wearing acts like the lead-lined vests they put on people when you take x-rays. It redirects the dagger's powers inwards and contains it to just the subject? (This is me making a No-Prize excuse for the writing.)

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Kind of like how the introduction of this "negative Speedforce" doesn't seem to fit with any of Thawne's established history, either.

It's a silly idea to begin with.  I don't see any real reason that they invented it, other than to supply some "Is Nora turning evil?" cliffhanger moments.  

Barry's claim to be able to sense Nora if she re-entered the timeline was just as silly, and they could have come up with something better for the "I'm in Cicada's head" stuff, if they think they really needed it. 

[Trini]

8 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

On another note, does this episode mean that Cecile's powers have been removed permanently?

I don't think so. They didn't say she took the cure.

[Cthulhudrew]

20 hours ago, Trini said:

I don't think so. They didn't say she took the cure.

But they showed her as being one of the people in the CCPD that Shecada drew dark matter from to power the dagger. It wasn't quite clear if she was drawing out all of their powers or what, though.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Cthulhudrew said:

But they showed her as being one of the people in the CCPD that Shecada drew dark matter from to power the dagger. It wasn't quite clear if she was drawing out all of their powers or what, though.

The same thing has been happening all season; it's a temporary loss of powers.

[Wanda]

On 5/7/2019 at 9:18 PM, mxc90 said:

In the beginning of this season Ralph was amazed by time travel (had no clue). I guess he done some serious studying on this subject when he was absent from episodes.

He binged Back to the Future 2 ?