S01.E20: Preventable

[LittleIggy]

Can Max just die already? Every time he opened his mouth during the MM, I shouted “F*ck you” at the TV. I did have a “f*ck” left to give that social worker, BTW.

[izabella]

I wonder if Kapoor finally got higher than a 1 star rating for saving that young woman's life.

Max was insufferable this episode, so I'm glad they found another treatment to try.  Though I wish someone would tell him if he really wants to fight his cancer, he needs to take care of himself, meaning get more rest.  Take a leave of absence! 

[elle]

Max needs to call another M M in order to explain his erratic behavior and apologize to Floyd and the writers need to show that scene.

Edited May 1, 2019 by elle

[Good Queen Jane]

Missing: Max's wife. Once again, Max is faced with a life-changing decision and he doesn't even consider talking to his wife about it. Do the show runners think we have just forgotten her? Frankly, the show is better without her but we need some explanation as to why she is not in the picture.

[preeya]

3 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Missing: Max's wife. Once again, Max is faced with a life-changing decision and he doesn't even consider talking to his wife about it. Do the show runners think we have just forgotten her? Frankly, the show is better without her but we need some explanation as to why she is not in the picture.

Actually, there was a mound of blankets in the bed next to Max when he awoke.

This show is really going off the rails.

And what's up with Iggy?

10 hours ago, izabella said:

I wonder if Kapoor finally got higher than a 1 star rating for saving that young woman's life.

Max was insufferable this episode, so I'm glad they found another treatment to try.  Though I wish someone would tell him if he really wants to fight his cancer, he needs to take care of himself, meaning get more rest.  Take a leave of absence! 

IRL he would be relieved of his duties and placed on medical leave.

Edited May 1, 2019 by preeya

[bros402]

With this episode - the Kapoor subplot was entertaining, I wish they had done a little thing at the end to follow up on it, since he deserves a happy moment.

With Max, uhhhh, he should have taken the rest of the day off after getting that news. Or maybe he should be going to whatever this universe's equivalent of MSKCC is. Maybe it's still Memorial Hospital (Or even New York Cancer Hospital) in the show's universe?

And with Iggy, yes, he shouldn't have grabbed the kid's face, but I wonder what the social worker was even using outside of that to get him investigated?

Was anyone else expecting that kid to say a family member in his mother's hometown abused him? Since they did seem to make a point of "Oh, they're going to [southern state], where her whole family is!"

[doodlebug]

In real life, the M&M conference would take place on a scheduled date in a scheduled slot.  There is no such thing as adjourning the meeting because the hospital CEO has a hissy and demands to see the entire chart.  Everyone who attends those things has actual clinical duties to perform; they cannot put the workday on hold to return for the rest of the conference later on a whim.  In real life, BTW, New Amsterdam is a teaching hospital and the resident who was scrubbed in the case would've been presenting it and defending the care.  And, if Max really felt the care in that case was substandard, he should've taken it up with the hospital's risk management department immediately after it happened.  M&M is meant to be a thoughtful discussion of the most difficult cases and using those experiences to try to reach conclusions that could improve future patient care.  It is not the Spanish Inquisition and anyone who behaved as Max did would've been firmly told to leave as well as been referred to their superior for discussion of appropriate behavior at educational conferences.  Max was a dick and he should've realized it long before he did.

And, yes, Max should not be hanging around the hospital exposed to who knows what all germs when he is receiving chemo and radiation which will compromise his immune system.  As far as the radiation and initial chemo not working, if he's responded that poorly to the tried and true treatment, in real life, he would probably not be curable and the super chemo they are recommending would be to try to slow the cancer down as he apparently has a very virulent tumor.  The show will undoubtedly pronounce him cured about 10 minutes after his last super chemo though.

BTW, after watching this episode as well as the one preceding it, I do not understand what happened to the cop's heart nor how she ended up in the OR without anyone doing anything about the fact she was apparently bleeding to death.  It's a puzzlement.

In a way, I'm glad we haven't seen Max' wife, the actress really annoys me.  However, we all know that she is going to be back before the season ends and there will be some sort of contrived life or death situation involving her and the baby where Max, also on his deathbed due to complications from his cancer or treatment, will be forced to choose which to save despite the fact that virtually never happens in real life.  There's a reason we were shown Max having trouble triaging during the blizzard and it's got to be something ridiculously implausible involving the birth of his kid.

I have no idea what the social worker thought was so inappropriate about Iggy's interaction with the kid; he was behaving like he does with all the kids in his practice.  She acted like he assaulted or molested the kid; whatever she thought was inappropriate, she blew it way out of proportion.

Edited May 1, 2019 by doodlebug

[DearEvette]

48 minutes ago, preeya said:

3 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Missing: Max's wife. Once again, Max is faced with a life-changing decision and he doesn't even consider talking to his wife about it. Do the show runners think we have just forgotten her? Frankly, the show is better without her but we need some explanation as to why she is not in the picture.

Actually, there was a mound of blankets in the bed next to Max when he awoke.

I saw that mound of blankets and flash of blonde hair and thought to myself 'Hey wait... are we really going to see Gerogia?'  I was sure she'd turn over over something.

And then as the scene went on and she didn't even twitch, I began to make a bet with myself  that she wouldn't make her presence felt and it wasn't her at all but a stand in actress who just made her day rate by being a mound of blankets. LOL.

I weirdly found myself liking the Kapoor storyline even though it was ridic.

And I applaud the show for finding a completely different way to Max insufferable.

[auntiemel]

A lot of people still have the backwards idea that gay people are pedos. Maybe that's what was going on with the social worker? Also, I thought it was really random in an earlier conversation that she was so invested in the mother's travel plans, and how she couldn't possibly be expected to change them. Like...wha???

I do have to hand it to her for telling him to his face, though. At least she's not underhanded.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, auntiemel said:

Also, I thought it was really random in an earlier conversation that she was so invested in the mother's travel plans, and how she couldn't possibly be expected to change them. Like...wha???

Yeah, I would have told the social worker that maybe if she cared so much about the mom's travel plans, they wouldn't have waited until the week of the move to tell the kid what was happening.  I think even a well adjusted child would act out if he was told there was going to be a big change in his life, and he wouldn't be allowed any real time to process it before it happened. 

9 hours ago, doodlebug said:

In real life, the M&M conference would take place on a scheduled date in a scheduled slot.  There is no such thing as adjourning the meeting because the hospital CEO has a hissy and demands to see the entire chart.  Everyone who attends those things has actual clinical duties to perform; they cannot put the workday on hold to return for the rest of the conference later on a whim.

A thousand times this.  I kept wondering how all those doctors had so much free time to just start and stop these meetings based on Max's whims.  He's just so grossly unprofessional that I have no real idea how the hospital board hasn't just said: "Your behavior is erratic, at best.  Your choice here is either a leave of absence until the cancer is in remission or being fired." 

[Texasmom1970]

I need a life, not sure why I continue to torture myself with this show, I was bored!

[ams1001]

Why is that kid an inpatient, anyway (I think I heard them say he was, at least)? Granted, I didn't watch at least the first few episodes of the show, and I have obviously gathered he has mental health issues of some sort, but I have no clue why, exactly, he's there.

(And if he's an inpatient, why can't they just keep him there a little longer and work with him to prepare for the move, instead of discharging him and sending him off with mom to a place that has clearly traumatized him in some way?)

[DearEvette]

There were two things I did like about the otherwise ridic M&M plot:

-  Evie taking  Reynolds aside and warning him that it was all bullshit and seemed like he was going to be thrown under the bus and she had his back.  Everyone else was kinda walking on eggshells around Max (although I loved Cadelario's massive side eye).  Yeah, it turns out Max was only having a hissy fit and it wasn't some nefarious plan to feed Reynolds to sharks, but I really appreciated Evie's lawyer instincts and protective instincts coming out on Reynolds' behalf.

- The scene confrontation scene between Reynolds  and Max.  It was well done and well acted and is one of the reasons I still enjoy the show.  The writing and situations can be over the top and not realistic, but the cast is genuinely good and really rise above. 

[LittleIggy]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

Why is that kid an inpatient, anyway (I think I heard them say he was, at least)? Granted, I didn't watch at least the first few episodes of the show, and I have obviously gathered he has mental health issues of some sort, but I have no clue why, exactly, he's there.

(And if he's an inpatient, why can't they just keep him there a little longer and work with him to prepare for the move, instead of discharging him and sending him off with mom to a place that has clearly traumatized him in some way?)

I used to be a staff attorney at a state mental institute, and I can’t figure out why he was an inpatient. We didn’t have juveniles in the facility, but for adults to be long term inpatient they had to have serious mental health issues. 

I agree that that there was no need to immediately discharge him to go with his mother. He could join her later.

[bros402]

14 hours ago, doodlebug said:

And, yes, Max should not be hanging around the hospital exposed to who knows what all germs when he is receiving chemo and radiation which will compromise his immune system.  As far as the radiation and initial chemo not working, if he's responded that poorly to the tried and true treatment, in real life, he would probably not be curable and the super chemo they are recommending would be to try to slow the cancer down as he apparently has a very virulent tumor.  The show will undoubtedly pronounce him cured about 10 minutes after his last super chemo though.

BTW, after watching this episode as well as the one preceding it, I do not understand what happened to the cop's heart nor how she ended up in the OR without anyone doing anything about the fact she was apparently bleeding to death.  It's a puzzlement.

Yup! Max should not be around all of those germs

Not necessarily - he doesn't have a super rare cancer, there are other treatments outside of cisplatin, sure, they probably suck more, but there are other treatments. He could still be curable.

I think they said something like the wall of the cops heart collapsed? But then it looked perfectly fine when Max dragged them all down to pathology.

[alexvillage]

18 hours ago, doodlebug said:

In a way, I'm glad we haven't seen Max' wife, the actress really annoys me.  However, we all know that she is going to be back before the season ends and there will be some sort of contrived life or death situation involving her and the baby where Max, also on his deathbed due to complications from his cancer or treatment, will be forced to choose which to save despite the fact that virtually never happens in real life.

My guess is similar only that Max and the baby will be in the same room, Max will be dying, then miraculously recovers, the baby is fine, the wife decides she cannot live with Max anymore, leaves with the baby. Cue: some cliffhanger. Back (?) next season: Max is in remission, is super Max again, will brood over his child being so far but the writers will slowly - or rather quickly, who knows? - forget about that.

The thing with Iggy is so weird and I have been puzzled by all those kids in the hospital since the beginning of the show. Jemma was a traumatized foster kid, Iggy was then shown working with an anxious foster kid, now a kid who "lost it" and was sent to some not-quite psych ward at the hospital? It is true that for disabled kids, especially disabled kids of color, the involuntary commitment is far too common, even when the family does not want that. Schools just send them to the 3-day hold instead of following the IEP. But that kid had been bullied, and became a patient, apparently for a long time? And foster kids getting top notch mental health care? I wish it was even close to the truth.

Even if the social worker had concerns, which is total bullshit, wasn't the kid like 17 or 18? Did I hear it right that he was about to graduate from High School?

I agree with everyone who thought Max was insufferable. He should have been fired.

[doodlebug]

12 hours ago, bros402 said:

Yup! Max should not be around all of those germs

Not necessarily - he doesn't have a super rare cancer, there are other treatments outside of cisplatin, sure, they probably suck more, but there are other treatments. He could still be curable.

I think they said something like the wall of the cops heart collapsed? But then it looked perfectly fine when Max dragged them all down to pathology.

I was speaking in generalities.   Tumors that don't respond, at least initially, to standard therapies are quite often refractory to other non-standard treatment, too. am sure this show will show Max making a miraculous recovery within days of getting his first new treatment.  I suspect the show's writers are not all that interested in writing a realistic, long-term cancer storyline and they will declare him cured early next season and move on to other stuff.

Edited May 2, 2019 by doodlebug

[txhorns79]

On 5/1/2019 at 1:12 PM, DearEvette said:

I saw that mound of blankets and flash of blonde hair and thought to myself 'Hey wait... are we really going to see Gerogia?'  I was sure she'd turn over over something.

Interestingly, this article says she will be back for the finale, and the actress recently gave birth in late March, and that may have been a reason she hasn't appeared in the last few episodes. 

[LadyNebula]

My biggest problem was actually the HIPPA violations. First off, Helen isn't Max's doctor any more, so she really has no business knowing what's going on. I'll give it a pass though, because hey, 2 oncologists were discussing a patient, and she's the department head. But then for her to tell Reynolds?  When it has no bearing on Max's case?  That's a HIPPA violation.  I don't care how noble her reasons were.

[hookedontv]

I could NOT get through the episode, I had to stop. Max was completely out of control and over the top. His behavior was bullshit, I don’t care why he was like that, cancer or no cancer. 

I did laugh at the irony of Sharp running to Iggy about her concerns about Max’s irrational behavior when she let Booth run around compromised on drugs for what seemed to be weeks before opening her mouth. 

The best part of this episode was no wife. Well, a back shot of her in bed, but she wasn’t awake. And didn’t say anything. And that made me happy: 

[bros402]

11 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I was speaking in generalities.   Tumors that don't respond, at least initially, to standard therapies are quite often refractory to other non-standard treatment, too. am sure this show will show Max making a miraculous recovery within days of getting his first new treatment.  I suspect the show's writers are not all that interested in writing a realistic, long-term cancer storyline and they will declare him cured early next season and move on to other stuff.

And I bet he'll have no chemo brain

[alexvillage]

13 hours ago, LadyNebula said:

My biggest problem was actually the HIPPA violations. First off, Helen isn't Max's doctor any more, so she really has no business knowing what's going on. I'll give it a pass though, because hey, 2 oncologists were discussing a patient, and she's the department head. But then for her to tell Reynolds?  When it has no bearing on Max's case?  That's a HIPPA violation.  I don't care how noble her reasons were.

Yeah, I guess with medical shows we need to just pretend that HIPAA is optional 😕

[Good Queen Jane]

I just had a thought, pure speculation. What if the baby (placenta, stem cells, umbilical cord, whatever) is the miracle cure for Max's cancer? I have no idea if throat cancer can be treated this way, but then the writers don't seem to be tied down by any real medical facts or procedures.

[Artsda]

Seeing the stand in wife in the bed made me wonder why bother have Max with this wife/baby story. He didn't need it on top of the cancer.  She serves no plot in his cancer story or life at all, does he even mention her?

Max was also just horrid this episode. 

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, Artsda said:

Seeing the stand in wife in the bed made me wonder why bother have Max with this wife/baby story. He didn't need it on top of the cancer.  She serves no plot in his cancer story or life at all, does he even mention her?

Max was also just horrid this episode. 

She barely gets a mention in passing, let alone does she actually seem to be a part of his life.  We keep hearing that Max has sent her to stay with her parents in the countryside like she's a preschooler who needs constant adult supervision.  I wonder if the decision to make her pregnant was based on the actress' pregnancy?  If so, it was a dumb idea.  If it was always going to be part of the story, even dumber idea.  

Edited May 4, 2019 by doodlebug

[starri]

On 5/2/2019 at 7:03 AM, alexvillage said:

And foster kids getting top notch mental health care? I wish it was even close to the truth.

In New York, at least, foster kids are the only people who are guaranteed health insurance through straight, not managed, Medicaid.  They are about the only patients where you don't need to fight with the insurance company every other day to get their admission covered.

On 5/1/2019 at 8:49 PM, auntiemel said:

A lot of people still have the backwards idea that gay people are pedos. Maybe that's what was going on with the social worker? 

That may be part of it, but she's not wrong when she says that Iggy doesn't set good boundaries with his patients.  I identify a lot with him, but his job isn't to be a surrogate parental figure.

Although if it was homophobia, fuck her.

10 hours ago, doodlebug said:

If it was always going to be part of the story, even dumber idea.  

It just seems like something that would make Max's story extra-tragic.  Dying of cancer and may not even get to see his daughter, let alone see her grow up.

[alexvillage]

25 minutes ago, starri said:

In New York, at least, foster kids are the only people who are guaranteed health insurance through straight, not managed, Medicaid.  They are about the only patients where you don't need to fight with the insurance company every other day to get their admission covered.

Thanks, for the clarification, first time I hear anything like that. Good thing, I guess. I am still confused about the type of care Iggy gives to the kids (counseling, but why at a institutionalized situation), and what would qualify a child to receive the care. Do you know more about it? Or maybe this is yet another fantasy-ish plot?

[izabella]

This hospital is supposed to be Bellevue, right?  If so, they are one of the first to create a mental hospital (via a facility within the overall hospital) and became known for that.  So the hospital itself includes a section that is an in-patient mental hospital as well as providing psychiatric care to ER patients and others.

Edited May 4, 2019 by izabella

[bros402]

17 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Thanks, for the clarification, first time I hear anything like that. Good thing, I guess. I am still confused about the type of care Iggy gives to the kids (counseling, but why at a institutionalized situation), and what would qualify a child to receive the care. Do you know more about it? Or maybe this is yet another fantasy-ish plot?

Iggy runs the pediatric psych department and I believe what we see in the patient psych unit at Bellvue New Amsterdam - Bellevue operates a pediatric psych ward, which has a school - not just a teacher who goes room to room to do hospital insturction - http://childrenofbellevue.org/child-adolescent-psychiatry/inpatient-psychiatric-care/

[doodlebug]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 6:18 PM, izabella said:

This hospital is supposed to be Bellevue, right?  If so, they are one of the first to create a mental hospital (via a facility within the overall hospital) and became known for that.  So the hospital itself includes a section that is an in-patient mental hospital as well as providing psychiatric care to ER patients and others.

Yes, the hospital is based on Bellevue, but, even though Bellevue has an inpatient psychiatric ward, it does not appear that the kids we've seen on the show as inpatients are actually in need of inpatient psychiatric care, at least by today's standards.  I could see them in a group home setting for troubled kids with Izzy conduction outpatient sessions for them, but, on the show, we've seen that the kids are residents of the inpatient psych unit.  Even at the real Bellevue, it doesn't appear that any of the kids we've seen should require longterm inpatient therapy for their problems.

[bros402]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Yes, the hospital is based on Bellevue, but, even though Bellevue has an inpatient psychiatric ward, it does not appear that the kids we've seen on the show as inpatients are actually in need of inpatient psychiatric care, at least by today's standards.  I could see them in a group home setting for troubled kids with Izzy conduction outpatient sessions for them, but, on the show, we've seen that the kids are residents of the inpatient psych unit.  Even at the real Bellevue, it doesn't appear that any of the kids we've seen should require longterm inpatient therapy for their problems.

Yeah, it would definitely make much more sense if what they showed Iggy managing was some kind of group home or a program that helped reintegrate kids back into the community after a stay in the hospital or some kind of step in between homebound instruction and going to a school with nondisabled peers

[Whimsy]

On 5/3/2019 at 9:58 PM, doodlebug said:

She barely gets a mention in passing, let alone does she actually seem to be a part of his life.  We keep hearing that Max has sent her to stay with her parents in the countryside like she's a preschooler who needs constant adult supervision.  I wonder if the decision to make her pregnant was based on the actress' pregnancy?  If so, it was a dumb idea.  If it was always going to be part of the story, even dumber idea.  

I always thought, based on no facts at all since I didn't really read up on the person this is supposedly based on, that they gave Max a pregnant wife was because the real-life counterpart had a pregnant wife while he was dealing with his cancer.  I wish the show had started with Max dealing with a break-up of his marriage (sans kid) and she was only referenced that one time and we never saw her.  Like others, I just really don't like the actress and find Max's home life boring. 

[morriss]

Poor Iggy.   If all shrinks were like him, society would be a better place.

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I always thought, based on no facts at all since I didn't really read up on the person this is supposedly based on, that they gave Max a pregnant wife was because the real-life counterpart had a pregnant wife while he was dealing with his cancer.  I wish the show had started with Max dealing with a break-up of his marriage (sans kid) and she was only referenced that one time and we never saw her.  Like others, I just really don't like the actress and find Max's home life boring. 

No, Max' real life counterpart was significantly older than Max. RealMax was in his 50's and had an adult child and became a grandfather the day before he started chemo.  His wife is not a ballerina, either, she's a prof at NYU.   Max' age, his wife's age, her profession, their marital problems and the pregnancy are all confined to the show and have nothing at all to do with the real life physician who wrote the book that the show was based upon. 

[Whimsy]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

No, Max' real life counterpart was significantly older than Max. RealMax was in his 50's and had an adult child and became a grandfather the day before he started chemo.  His wife is not a ballerina, either, she's a prof at NYU.   Max' age, his wife's age, her profession, their marital problems and the pregnancy are all confined to the show and have nothing at all to do with the real life physician who wrote the book that the show was based upon. 

Thanks for that info. I wish they had just not given max a wife at all, then. 

[starri]

8 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Yes, the hospital is based on Bellevue, but, even though Bellevue has an inpatient psychiatric ward, it does not appear that the kids we've seen on the show as inpatients are actually in need of inpatient psychiatric care, at least by today's standards.

None of those kids seem sick enough to warrant inpatient admission.  No one's psychotic, manic, suicidal or homicidal.

Having said that, I did find the patient he was working with earlier in the season, the girl who was stuck in limbo because there was nowhere for her to go, depressingly realistic.  I think they said she'd been there for years, which isn't quite realistic for a minor--the only year+ patients I've ever seen were adults--but I can think of a few kids who weren't sick enough to need a long-term hospitalization at the state hospital, but didn't have anywhere else to go.  They could hang out for months.

[Sandman]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 2:49 AM, bros402 said:

And I bet he'll have no chemo brain

Not enough brain.

Really, these writers lack any sense of proportion. Absolutely everything on this show is turned up to 11. I agree with the poster upthread who pointed out that M&Ms are educational conferences, not the second coming of the Spanish Inquisition!

Ryan Eggold is both capable and charming, but Max is a straight-up dick.

[bros402]

On 7/29/2019 at 10:09 AM, Sandman said:

Not enough brain.

Really, these writers lack any sense of proportion. Absolutely everything on this show is turned up to 11. I agree with the poster upthread who pointed out that M&Ms are educational conferences, not the second coming of the Spanish Inquisition!

Ryan Eggold is both capable and charming, but Max is a straight-up dick.

True, true.

Maybe, maybe, season 2 will improve the writing a bit and make things a bit more.... realistic?

[Coffeefrog19]

I was hoping Dr Reynolds would punch Max dead in the face.  As far as Iggy goes, I wondered went he put his hands on the kids face, that he shouldn’t be doing that. Wouldn’t bother me if they killed Max off and got a new lead. But....loving Judith Ivey’s addition to the show. I think the only reason he wanted to keep Dr Sharpe was that he knew he could get away with NOT doing anything she said. Because he didn’t.