S08.E02: A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

[Andromeda]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

I mentioned this in the other thread but they want to limit the screentime of the direwolves because many people were buying huskies expecting them to be like direwolves and returning them when they found out that huskies might look like wolves but they are goofy, active, athletic family dogs who need a lot of attention and care. What is wrong with people. Have they ever encountered a husky at a park? They're big goofballs.

Who would want an actual direwolf as a pet? I mean, seriously, people! It's a wolf! Not pet material. Huskies are ADORBS.

[GatorDeb]

On 4/21/2019 at 7:05 PM, mac123x said:

I got kinda squicked out at seeing Maisie Williams's sideboob.  I know, I know, she's in her 20s, but I still sometimes think of her as Season 1 Arya.

What was up with Sansa giving gooey eyes to Theon?  I know she bonded with him during their escape from Ramsey, but lets leave it at that, shall we?  Not every male/female relationship has to be romantic.

I feel like that every time I see real-world pictures of them, I always hated she got chummy with real-world Sansa, I don't think she's a good influence.  I'm not even that old but I think she's trying to grow up too fast to feel grown-up like her buddy.

[spaceghostess]

6 hours ago, Andromeda said:

Good idea. I want trenches they can set afire, and while they built one, I would have had three, several yards apart. You know once it fills up with dead wights and the flames die down, they can get through a single trench. I also imagined sowing the plain north of Winterfell with Wildfire that can be triggered once the plain is filled with them. Boom!

Yeah, I was also thinking that a moat would quickly be crossed via 10-deep, dead-guy bridge. Your multi-trench (Now with fire!) is a much better idea.

I was wondering whether or not the dragons might be used to spot-burn piles of dead bodies so they can't be conscripted into the AOTD. Or would that be like bringing a gun to a knife fight? Or napalm on your camping trip to make s'mores?

In other Winterfell-adjacent news, one of my kids made me an Easter egg:

Edited April 23, 2019 by spaceghostess

[TheGourmez]

17 hours ago, FemmyV said:

I fear you may be correct about Dany being written as power mad, although, atm, I'd say every Northerner is being written as fearing Dany is mad. And we've already seen Tyrion and Varys being written as fearful she could be.

Then again: "The dragon must have three heads." Who will be #3?

Isn't the Night King the answer? At least for the show.

[YaddaYadda]

3 hours ago, TheGourmez said:

Isn't the Night King the answer? At least for the show.

And that one head is trying to wipe out the other two heads and the rest of humanity along with them?

[benteen]

13 hours ago, Andromeda said:

Good idea. I want trenches they can set afire, and while they built one, I would have had three, several yards apart. You know once it fills up with dead wights and the flames die down, they can get through a single trench. I also imagined sowing the plain north of Winterfell with Wildfire that can be triggered once the plain is filled with them. Boom!

Some good ideas to be sure.  But it is winter and those dragons can't stay in one place, especially with an ice dragon around.  Plus, the White Walkers have proven that they can kill a dragon. 

[RoberTee]

8 hours ago, GatorDeb said:

I feel like that every time I see real-world pictures of them, I always hated she got chummy with real-world Sansa, I don't think she's a good influence.  I'm not even that old but I think she's trying to grow up too fast to feel grown-up like her buddy.

She's 22 years old! She IS a grown up! Get over it, guys! 

[Growsonwalls]

9 hours ago, GatorDeb said:

I feel like that every time I see real-world pictures of them, I always hated she got chummy with real-world Sansa, I don't think she's a good influence.  I'm not even that old but I think she's trying to grow up too fast to feel grown-up like her buddy.

Whoa. Maisie and Sophie are roughly the same age. Sophie is a year older. They grew up together acting in the same tv show. It makes perfect sense that the actresses are close in real life too. I can't believe people are judging her for ... being friends with a co-worker?

[Minneapple]

9 hours ago, GatorDeb said:

I feel like that every time I see real-world pictures of them, I always hated she got chummy with real-world Sansa, I don't think she's a good influence.  I'm not even that old but I think she's trying to grow up too fast to feel grown-up like her buddy.

Wow, this assumes a lot of stuff you know nothing about. "I don't think she's a good influence." LOL sorry but are you Maisie's mother (or mine...I can totally hear my mom saying that). They are about the same age. And why does it matter to you if Maisie is friends with Sophie? 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Minneapple

[GraceK]

3 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Wow, this assumes a lot of stuff you know nothing about. "I don't think she's a good influence." LOL sorry but are you Maisie's mother (or mine...I can totally hear my mom saying that). They are about the same age. And why does it matter to you if Maisie is friends with Sophie? 

Seriously. I wish I was friends with Sophie Turner!!! 😂. She seems like an unbelievably awesome human being. Funny, smart and intelligent, aware of serous issues...extremely interesting for someone so young. And unlike some other young celebrities, she’s not out there showing her ass and tits and being drunk and an asshole. ( although if she wanted too, that’s her right!)  

[Growsonwalls]

1 minute ago, GraceK said:

Seriously. I wish I was friends with Sophie Turner!!! 😂. She seems like an unbelievably awesome human being. Funny, smart and intelligent, aware of serous issues...extremely interesting for someone so young. And unlike some other young celebrities, she’s not out there showing her ass and tits and being drunk and an asshole. ( although if she wanted too, that’s her right!)  

Besides that, I like how tight the cast of GoT is. I always think that after spending years and years of your life together it's sad when co-workers are barely on speaking terms. Like the instagram rant that Kim Cattrall made about Sarah Jessica Parker ... sad. The fact that Archie Panjabi and Julianna Marguiles couldn't shoot ONE scene together and had to green screen their final farewell ... sad. It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is, it's just sad when people who have shared an incredible experience together are bitterly feuding. Both Maisie and Sophie are fun to follow on social media and I see nothing Lindsay Lohan-ish about Sophie Turner at all.

[GraceK]

15 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Besides that, I like how tight the cast of GoT is. I always think that after spending years and years of your life together it's sad when co-workers are barely on speaking terms. Like the instagram rant that Kim Cattrall made about Sarah Jessica Parker ... sad. The fact that Archie Panjabi and Julianna Marguiles couldn't shoot ONE scene together and had to green screen their final farewell ... sad. It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is, it's just sad when people who have shared an incredible experience together are bitterly feuding. Both Maisie and Sophie are fun to follow on social media and I see nothing Lindsay Lohan-ish about Sophie Turner at all.

I agree a hundred percent. I have to admit, I honestly couldn’t listen to the blu Ray commentary on one of the season 2 episodes when Maise and Sophie were the guests because they were so young, obnoxious and giggling together😂😂🤦🏻‍♀️ it reminded me of my little nieces. You could hear the friendship between them and they became those annoying tween girls when they got together  😂😂😂😂 it was very wholesome.  When you see other celebrities like Lohan in rehab, and  Other child stars and their Sex tapes and drug use , you appreciate the Emma Watsons and Sophie Turners and Maisie Williams. As a  mother I feel protective. It’s dumb I know 🙄 I cried when I read that article about Isaac Hempstead Wright being called ugly. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by GraceK

[taanja]

On 4/21/2019 at 10:12 PM, chaos is welcome said:

Did anyone notice that the crypts of Winterfell and several underground parts of Kings Landing were included in the opening sequence? It was very, very different and I commented to my hubs that it is super odd that they changed up the sequence that much and that it seemed significant. Hm.

They are all going to die! 

[proserpina65]

23 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Exactly. He gets power: but for what?

Cersei wants a dynasty. Other rulers want wealth.

What's in it for him?

I've seen no indication that the Night King wants power.  Maybe he doesn't have what we would recognize as a human motivation at all.

On the whole "is the North racist?" thing, I lean more to them being xenophobic.  Grey Worm and Missandei are foreigners in Westeros, and to the locals, merit suspicion, just like Dany does.

Edited April 23, 2019 by proserpina65

[proserpina65]

21 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Yes, Misandei and Greyworm are part of Dany's group, but I don't see the Northernes giving Jorah the stink eye, and he sold slaves, was disowned and banned from Ned himself. Heck even Davos, who fought side by side with Stannis.

Stannis was a Baratheon, and they were allies of the Starks, plus Davos arrived at Winterfell with Jon.  Jorah is from a Northern family, and we did actually see some people looking a bit side-eyed at him.  The reaction to Missandei and Grey Worm, and to others in Dany's entourage, says more xenophobia to me.

17 hours ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

I’m pretty sure they have never used CGI for the direwolves. In season one they used dogs in the actual scenes with the actors. Season 2 onwards they have used actual wolves against a green screen and superimposed them into the scenes, while enlarging them in the process. 

They've used real animals, but CGI is involved in making them look so much larger.  And it's expensive.

12 hours ago, GatorDeb said:

I feel like that every time I see real-world pictures of them, I always hated she got chummy with real-world Sansa, I don't think she's a good influence.  I'm not even that old but I think she's trying to grow up too fast to feel grown-up like her buddy.

Maisie's 22.  She's an adult.

[benteen]

29 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Stannis was a Baratheon, and they were allies of the Starks, plus Davos arrived at Winterfell with Jon.  Jorah is from a Northern family, and we did actually see some people looking a bit side-eyed at him.  The reaction to Missandei and Grey Worm, and to others in Dany's entourage, says more xenophobia to me.

Considering how Jorah left the North and was originally sentenced to death by Ned for selling slaves, it's not a surprise he got side-eyed.  I was surprised that Lyanna actually wished him "good fortune" considering how he brought shame to their House, though I was still glad that she did.

Though I doubt any of the smallfolk present had actually ever seen Jorah in person before.

Edited April 23, 2019 by benteen

[proserpina65]

Meant to mention in my original post: Missandei is pretty much the only member of Dany's entourage whom we've seen trying to interact with the smallfolk of the North.  The others have mostly just been dealing with the Starks and their companions, that we've seen anyway.

[FozzyBear]

On 4/22/2019 at 12:40 PM, FozzyBear said:

I’ve heard some critics talk about the Night King as a natural disaster. I think that makes more sense. He is a famine, an earth quake, global warming. His only motivation is to exist.

I concede that the more the try to characterize the Knight King the muddier it gets.

Although if you want to reach for it (and I do) I think you could argue the case that destroying the memory of man is a pretty spot on metaphorical motivation to give Climate Change.

[AshleyN]

On 4/22/2019 at 5:10 PM, FozzyBear said:

I’ve heard some critics talk about the Night King as a natural disaster. I think that makes more sense. He is a famine, an earth quake, global warming. His only motivation is to exist.

This is how I've always thought of the White Walkers tbh. While I admit to beeing curious about how they came to exist, I've never really been interested in them having specific motives or anything because to me the story isn't about them, but about how the human characters react to them. They're a force of destruction that can't be reasoned or negotiated with, but for the most part people are to caught up in their power games or petty personal feuds to see or respond to the threat to all humanity that they represent.

[GatorDeb]

Read an interesting theory on another board.  That last shot was the NK in front of KL and about to take Cersei by surprise and obliterate her and then head over with new zombies to rejoin the battle started by the lesser zombies up north.  Please let this be true.

[Katalina]

I'm in agreement that Dany's getting obnoxious and maybe “Targaryen-cray.”

Yes, I loved Dany's story back when---now she needs to go. I see her as ego-maniacal, even when everyone needs to pull together to literally save their world. Stop worrying about who bends the knee for crying out loud.

Quote

I can’t wait for Cersei to die. It makes me upset that people would think her cunning. She truly is just as bad as Joffrey and Ramsey. I hope Jaime kills her while making out with Brienne. 

Jamie and Brienne?? But Brienne and Tormund need to get together!

Quote

The Night King isnt just evil, he is getting artistic in his evil. 

This episode refers back to the very first episode of season 1, that featured artistic spirals of horse and human parts.

I'm thinking Varys + Davos + Li'l Badass Lady Mormont should be a ruling trio. Screw all this stuff about bloodlines and go for the talent. Hmm, I wrote it as a joke, but it really could work; Lady Mormont satisfies the need for tradition, plus the smart guys. Tyrion could be an occasional adviser, as could Jon (on defense issues).

Is Gilly a lot plumper? Is she meant to be pregnant?

Quote

I love how Maisie Williams' sideboob is more traumatizing to everyone than Arya becoming a teenage assassin.

Hey this is the USA---okay with violence, not okay with boobs.

Quote

At this point though, I'd even take Bran mistakenly interpreting the reason as it being the memories of all mankind - and it's actually that among those memories is the way to kill/defeat the NK.

Yes, makes sense, Efzee!

I thought of the wildfire too, but isn't what's left of it in King's Landing? Assuming Cersei didn't use all of it up on her sparrow-cleansing operation.

Quote

I honestly couldn’t listen to the blu Ray commentary on one of the season 2 episodes when Maise and Sophie were the guests because they were so young, obnoxious and giggling together

I remember that commentary, and it took me back, MANY years, to when I was that young and silly.

[Efzee]

On 4/22/2019 at 10:51 PM, stagmania said:

That WW can't cross water was the entire conceit of the episode where they went on the wight-capturing mission. Dany had to get there to save them before the water re-froze. 

That is certainly implied. However, the NK being able to see the future like Bran (and having had thousands of years more practice) means it's entirely possible he was simply waiting for Dany and her dragons. If he'd let his army kill the group, then Dany could have seen it as soon as she approached and turned right around to fly her dragons back, preventing the NK from killing Viserion.

Not being able to cross water just doesn't sound plausible to me. I don't expect them to be able to walk on water or swim through it, but I doubt it'd disable/kill them. Fire kills them, not a dunking or water spray. Being unable to swim and not needing to breathe means they could just walk over the bottom and climb out when the body of water is shallow. Or pile up onto each other and the others can walk over them, like they did when encountering the barriers on Hardhome.

If they couldn't cross water, then how could they put chains on Viserion who was on the bottom of the body of water (ocean, sea, lake?)?

[shireenbamfatheon]

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Katalina said:

I'm in agreement that Dany's getting obnoxious and maybe “Targaryen-cray.”

Yes, I loved Dany's story back when---now she needs to go. I see her as ego-maniacal, even when everyone needs to pull together to literally save their world. Stop worrying about who bends the knee for crying out loud.

I thought it was interesting that Tyrion told Jaime that he always knew who Cersei was but loved her anyway after Jaime twice asked him if he was sure about Dany. That set off so many red flags to me given his conversation with Varys last season.

I was reading the season six script because I was pretty sure that Dany was made aware of her father's plan to burn King's Landing's entire population to the ground, and I came across this scene which I didn't remember from the show because Meereen was boring:

 

 

 

 

3

Quote

Tyrion: Do we have a plan?
Daenerys: I will crucify the Masters. I will set their fleet afire, kill every last one of their soldiers, and return their cities to the dirt. That is my plan.
Tyrion: Your father wanted to do the same bla bla bla.
Dany: That is entirely different. 
Tyrion: You're talking about destroying cities. It's not entirely different.

Tyrion managed to persuade her otherwise and we were supposed to applaud her for not going down that route, but it's insane that it's something she conceived of to begin with and something he needed to shoot down. Her first instinct to a siege wasn't just defeating her enemies who were all gathered outside the gates of Meereen anyway; no, it was also putting them through excruciating torture and flying to their cities, containing women and children, and turning them to ashes and dust out of pure fury and vengeance. And this wasn't the first or last time Dany had to be persuaded not to set a city on fire. They have been teasing a darker side to her character ever since she burned Mirri alive and threatened to burn Qarth to the ground. It's not that Dany is being written poorly compared to before; it's that people can't handwave her darker aspects because she's surrounded by people who aren't forgettable one-dimensional Oriental caricatures. Dany isn't her father, but at this point, the similarities between Tywin constantly having to reign in Aerys' impulses and Tyrion having to reign in Daenerys' are there.

Anyway, the relevance of this script page in this thread is that Dany is becoming increasingly isolated this season and steadily losing faith in her advisors who've constantly had to keep her in check. Jorah is the only one she fully trusts and he is marked for death. Jon was the first man she fully opened herself up to since Drogo (ugh) and he just upended her whole world. Missandei and Grey Worm are making plans of leaving after she has her throne, and one of them will likely die next episode. She barely trusts Tyrion and only because of Jorah. Her Dothraki will bear the brunt of the damage in the Battle of Winterfell because they're stationed on the frontlines. And she's poised to lose another dragon against the NK. Next episode is going to be disastrous for her team and I don't see her taking it very well. There's also the matter of the North and the Vale wanting autonomy.

Also bonus script line from season six:

 

 

 

Quote

She only allows the faintest hint of a smile. A smile that says: my tyranny's not ended, motherfucker. It's only just begun.

[Holmbo]

On 4/22/2019 at 6:15 PM, AshleyN said:

Also, this episode was the most Tyrion has felt like Tyrion in ages. Part of it is being reunited with Jaime, because Tyrion (along with Peter Dinklage) is always at his best when he's playing off of family members. But I also really liked him questioning Bran about what happened to him, a reminder of his natural curiosity and intellect (aka the traits that made him stand out in the beginning, but have been kind of forgotten about the last couple of seasons). Between that and the reminders of how dumb he's been lately, I'm hoping he'll get a chance to do something soon to remind us of why he was "the clever one" in the first place.

Agreed! I think Tyrion's character has suffered the most from plot requirements. They needed reasons that Dany didn't just flatten Cersei immediately upon arrival to westeros. I don't think the writers had any overall plan for his character after the book material ended, but this episode gives me hope that they're at least trying to tie it all together this season.

On 4/22/2019 at 10:49 PM, LadyPenelope said:

Ugh, this pissed me off no end - he said it like it was so long ago and he has grown and changed since then, conveniently forgetting the fact that his sister is literally pregnant with his child as he speaks. Jaime’s Redemption (TM Jaime) was so overblown and self-congratulatory this episode that I am now actively rooting for Bronn to crossbow him. 

Fair point!
I have every respect for viewers who don't buy Jaime's redemption. Personally I i don't see him as fully redeemable but I still feel very touched by his and Brienne's relationship and his desire for redemption. I don't expect him to get a happy ending though.

On 4/23/2019 at 6:33 PM, proserpina65 said:

On the whole "is the North racist?" thing, I lean more to them being xenophobic.  Grey Worm and Missandei are foreigners in Westeros, and to the locals, merit suspicion, just like Dany does.

Yeah I think xenophobia is a more fitting term. It's not useful to look at the northerners reactions as the same as our modern concept of racism. In modern times it's a tool for discrimination. In this pseudo-medieval time it's only that they're strangers. And from my (very limited) history readings, xenophobia used to kinda be the norm. The Romans used the same word for Foreigner as for Enemy. Most times people only ever met foreigners in war.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Holmbo
edit cause of weird formating

[WatchrTina]

Upon re-watch (on a good screen) I spotted a funny moment.  When Arya is demonstrating her skill at knife throwing to Gendry she throws a knife at a vertical beam . . . and there is a guy sitting right next to it.  He hears the sound and looks around in time to see the second knife land right next to the first.  Then he quickly buggers off because who needs THIS shit when White Walkers are on their way?

[MadameKillerB]

Oh I loved that bit!

[John Potts]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 3:40 AM, GraceK said:

I LOVED Sansa in this episode . Finally they did her justice. She was so freaking awesome imo. She handled the Jaime scene great, she was honest and upfront with Dany and was absolutely valid in her feelings about the North, her reunion with Theon was everything, she was just great. Why can’t they always write her this way???

It was nice to actually have Sansa doing something smart rather than just having characters say how brilliant she is. Though I thought Jamie handled it just right - telling it straight, no bluster, no bullshit.

Was Gendry just a little turned on by Arya's knife skills? Though it figures Arya would want to be on top.

OK Jon - your plan sucks. Why aren't the dragons running sorties against the dead? And why are you placing troops outside? There's a reason castles have walls! Yes, the flame trenches are a good idea, but you only need a few people to light them.

Some hilarious pre battle dialogue (and some quality quaffing from Tormund).
Sam - good choice in giving a Valerian Steel sword who can actually use it effectively. Though shouldn't Lyanna ask what happened to Longclaw? Or even ask (given Jeor gave their sword to Jon) if they can inherit Heartsbane should the inevitable worst happen? And shouldn't there be some mention of returning Ice (or its two parts)? Unless the origin of Oathkeeper/Widow's Wail is unknown.

Why would Danny believe Rhaegar raped Lyanna? Surely the version she'd learn would be that Lyanna ran off with him (because he was so awesome)? Presumably the version she's heard would be one Viserys told her, which is only going to portray Rhaegar in a good light

Surely Danny should have declared to Sansa that the Starks have traditionally been loyal to the Iron Throne so they can continue in that role? It's not what Sansa wants to hear, but it gives her something.

So glad Tyrion responded to one of Bran's cryptic comments with, "Well,  if only we didn't have hours alone in the middle of a castle!?" Honestly, I think he does it deliberately so he's left alone.

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 3:03 AM, SeanC said:

however much John Bradley (who I increasingly think is the series’ best actor now) tries to sell it, that spiel about how Bran is the world’s memory or whatever is pretty much gibberish

Yeah, it's such writer-ly bullshit (I mean, I'm not immune from writing essay length posts, but I don't think it makes them important)! But what do you expect when he's GRRM's Avatar?

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 3:06 AM, stagmania said:

Brienne being knighted by Jaime was about 10x more romantic than Arya and Gendry’s sex scene.

Agreed. Even Tormund, who has to think the whole "Knighting" concept is frankly bullshit, seemed taken by the moment (and not just because he has the hots for her).

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 3:15 AM, anamika said:

correct me if I am wrong, but when he attacked Ned in the streets, Lannisters and Starks were not at war.

Well, the Starks (in the person of Catelyn, but according to Ned, at his order) had taken Tyrion prisoner at that point.

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 3:28 AM, cambridgeguy said:

At least Dany pointed out how incredibly convenient it is for Bran and Sam to say that Jon, their brother and BFF respectively, is the true heir to the Iron Throne.   Where's Howland Reed when you need him?

You mean Howland "Ned's BFF" Reed? I'm not sure how much weight his voice would add.

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 5:51 AM, Minneapple said:

I love how Maisie Williams' sideboob is more traumatizing to everyone than Arya becoming a teenage assassin.

Well, it could be worse - it could be a penis! I mean, civilisation would just collapse...

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 8:36 PM, Efzee said:

Where does this theory about them not being able to cross water come from?

From the fact that the Wall acts as a barrier at all? Otherwise the Dead could just walk round it!

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 11:58 PM, Conan Troutman said:

If all there's left is dust, what's even the point from the NK's point of view, dirty up the floor a bit?

I love the idea of a petty Night King going "Ha ha, now I'll cover your plates with bone dust - your food will taste really bad!"

[JTMacc99]

42 minutes ago, John Potts said:

(and not just because he has the hots for her).