S03.E17: R&B

[GodsBeloved]

8 hours ago, JKL845 said:

If it was real and not a tv show I don't think anyone would be advocating for divorce. Their problems shown so far are very fixable. However, they are trying to hint that they divorce by what they have shown of the future. No wedding ring for Randall etc. So if they are divorced in the future, from how bad I feel this episode was, I'd prefer they just go ahead and do it and not prolong their misery and ours! I didn't like or recognize this Beth and Randall. This Beth that has no problem rejecting Randall over and over again and still gets him to come back for more, puts up with 7 years of spending EVERY Sunday with his mother and doesn't say anything?! That is not the Beth I know and love. She is not a pushover and they are playing games with my favorite couple on the show. Not buying it. 

Randall is wearing his wedding ring, Toby however isn’t.

[ShadowFacts]

49 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

Randall is wearing his wedding ring, Toby however isn’t.

Now that you mention it, that isn't necessarily proof that he and Beth are not divorced. They could be and he is remarried to someone else. That would displease me and be kind of cheap, but the show likes big shockers and the last one was Nicky being alive, so maybe . . I had just never thought of it until now. I apologize if this belongs in a speculation thread.

[Katy M]

14 hours ago, ams1001 said:

The only time I've seen someone pay by check at a restaurant was my brother's birthday several years ago, and that was arranged ahead of time. (It was at a local place that normally only takes cash; I don't think they even have the capability to take credit cards (or my parents would have used one for that dinner), but they'll take a check for a larger party if you pre-arrange it; and I think my mom said they told her the address had to be in-state).

There's a restaurant in my town which only takes cash or local checks.  So, yes, sometimes you ca pay by check.

I remember one time my grandmother wanted to pay by check at a restaurant that didn't take checks.  She said she could prove she had enough money and showed them the balance on her check register.  The waiter went to get a manager, and she said "I proved I had the money."  My mom (I don't really know why she bothered), pointed out that my grandmother could write any number she wanted and that didn't prove anything.  Inevitble yelling ensued.

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Now that you mention it, that isn't necessarily proof that he and Beth are not divorced. They could be and he is remarried to someone else. That would displease me and be kind of cheap, but the show likes big shockers and the last one was Nicky being alive, so maybe . . I had just never thought of it until now. I apologize if this belongs in a speculation thread.

Or, he could just still be wearing his wedding ring because he's stubborn and doesn't recognize the divorce.  That actually sounds like something Randall would do.

[qtpye]

18 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Or, he could just still be wearing his wedding ring because he's stubborn and doesn't recognize the divorce.  That actually sounds like something Randall would do.

Oh God, now I am getting visuals of divorced Randall spending years getting "Beth back" including repurposing every chance he gets.

[GodsBeloved]

31 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Now that you mention it, that isn't necessarily proof that he and Beth are not divorced. They could be and he is remarried to someone else. That would displease me and be kind of cheap, but the show likes big shockers and the last one was Nicky being alive, so maybe . . I had just never thought of it until now. I apologize if this belongs in a speculation thread.

I agree it’s not necessarily proof. I just think they are still married because it appears they are divorced/separated and the ring appears to have been missed by viewers.

I did think like @Katy M said that Randall could have refused to take off his ring (especially given teen Randall’s ignoring teen Beth’s don’t call me again and proclaiming he’s marrying her) but the “evidence” imo is leaning heavily toward them being divorced. 

If I am not mistaken, we will find out their fate in the finale and I will be glad 😂 

[General Days]

On 3/27/2019 at 9:14 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Even though I knew that obviously Beth was going to say yes to one of his proposals eventually, when he walked away at the miniature golf course, I was really hoping that Beth would tell him how tiresome the situation was (I mean, seriously, she said she wants to marry you, JUST NOT NOW and your response is to keep asking). She put up with Randall blithely inviting his mom on their date much better than would have too. The most disappointing thing is that after a day like that, what got her to say yes to his proposal was Rebecca with a Pearson Speech.

It wasn't really just blithely inviting Rebecca on their date. On a Sunday, when it was getting to be time to go to Rebecca's (where, no matter what we think of the habit itself, is a regular thing and would have been something Rebecca was counting on at that point), Beth announced she wanted to do something else.

She didn't say it on a Monday, or even a Saturday. She said it when they would have been getting ready to go over. I remember saying to my husband, "I hope  Rebecca hasn't already started dinner," because I thought it was terribly inconsiderate timing on Beth's part.

I also thought that seven years into being together, she shouldn't have been playing that kind of game, which smacked of the girlfriend who is jealous of the boyfriend's love for his mother. Fool. If he is good to the women in his family, that's an excellent indicator he'll be good to you too.

Beth is dishonest with Randall. A lot. She clearly didn't want to spend every Sunday with Rebecca (which itself is reasonable of Beth), but instead of saying, "I know you don't want your mom to get lonely, and your siblings are on the other side of the country, but could we limit this to once or twice a month, instead of making it a weekly thing?" No. Instead she stewed, and then expected that Randall (and Rebecca) would change his plans for her at the last minute. That's some bullshit right there. Passive-aggressive bullshit.
 

On 3/27/2019 at 10:00 AM, Blakeston said:

My biggest issue with it was that Randall has had very few anxiety attacks in the time they've been together. He had one when she was pregnant with Tess, and he had another in season one when the pressure at his job was insane, and William was dying.

But for many years, he was able to handle an extremely stressful job, and being a father. On the list of reasons why Beth wasn't in a position to pursue his dreams, I'd put Randall's anxiety quite low on the list. It was an unnecessary jab, IMO.

First of all, what he had both during Beth's pregnancy and William's illness were much bigger than anxiety attacks.  (I have anxiety, I'm not pulling this out of my ass).  Didn't he have psychosomatic (or some other kind of) blindness during the pregnancy anxiety period? 

That's was a full-on nervous breakdown. I remember Kevin had to go help Randall during his problem when William was sick, but don't recall the particulars,  but that was a really severe attack, if not a small breakdown.

I have no idea how many anxiety attacks Randall has had over the years. They showed us a couple of extreme ones.  I'm sure he's had many more, semi-regularly. We saw the critical ones.

That said, Randall's first date was fueled by two things, his attraction to Beth, and his anxiety, which in Randall, exhibited itself that night as perfectionism (the suit, the flowers, the fancy restaurant), and the TMI blurt. That whole date was choreographed by Randall's over-production of adrenaline and low serotonin levels (and his issues of being good enough).

Having to bring William home right away? Insisting William see a Randall-approved doctor? Buying and rehabbing dead William's apartment building? Those were,  in part, all fueled by his anxiety, as was his feeling threatened at his old job, and his quitting his old job. 

Randall is too much, but he's a well-meaning too-much, which could be helped with therapy and maybe a meds adjustment.

On 3/27/2019 at 12:21 PM, Blakeston said:

Beth was actually the one who came up with the idea to foster a troubled teen, and convinced Randall that it was a good idea.

Randall has obviously done a lot of different things to inconvenience Beth, and his idea to adopt a baby might have been even more disruptive. But Beth signed on for a lot of these decisions, without being forced her to. It's not like she's some shrinking violet who didn't feel like she could stand up to her husband.

Thank you for saying that.  I'd thought I was making up storylines in my head.

On 3/27/2019 at 1:18 PM, Biggie B said:

When I saw the title of this episode, "R&B," I thought it meant "rhythm and blues." At one point, current day Randall said to Beth that their rhythm was off and had been off for some time, and certainly both of them are experiencing the blues right now. It wasn't until reading this thread that I saw that "R&B" meant Randall and Beth. D'oh!!

I think it was meant to have multiple meanings -- all the ones you've noted above.
 

On 3/28/2019 at 2:42 PM, DearEvette said:

This is how I feel about the two comments.  Randall's was full of intent.  He stewed about it and did it deliberately to hurt.  Beth's was a thoughtless, impulsive comment that was probably heartfelt and true fr her but not something she would have ever said to Randall out of spite. 

The other difference is, Randall was only upset about his comment because Beth showed up and proved him wrong.  He wasn't sorry he said it, he was sorry he was wrong.  If Beth hadn't shown up, he would have still felt righteous about it.  Beth knew she had said something she shouldn't have the minute it came out her mouth.  She showed immediate remorse.  You could see all the fight leeching out of her when she said it.  She knew that they'd been having a cathartic argument ... even one that might have yielded some positive results, until that came out of her mouth.

And this is why I liked the argument.  I am not on either team.  I saw it as one of those arguments where each party came to it from their own perspective and neither one was wholly right or wrong.

I agree with your third paragraph -- the conclusion -- even though I disagree with some of your stops on the way. For example, I think he lashed because he was hurt. So is that "deliberately to hurt" maybe, but to me, it was more of a reaction than I'm reading in your take on it.

I bolded the comments above though, because they made me think of something. I think I finally kind of understand why he said the "teaching bored housewives to twirl" thing (which was mean, dismissive, and way out of line), in the episode prior.

Beth has let him down before, and we saw it in this episode (R&B). She lied that she was going to a conference, when she was going away for some "Me time." The Randall who assumed Beth wouldn't show up, is the same Randall who ran into his own damn wife at a grocery store, when she had lied that she was going away for work. He leapt to that conclusion, because this isn't the first time she punked out on him.

I could not figure out where his nastiness came from in the previous episode, but now it seems less incredible to me.

On 3/28/2019 at 7:31 PM, Neurochick said:

Also, maybe it's a generational thing, but many years ago, it was in 1990, I was asked on a date, it was August, I wore a summer dress and the guy wore short shorts.  I was like WTF and thought it was disrespectful.  I thought, "oh, since I'm a black woman, he didn't feel that he had to try."  See, that's what I don't get about Beth.  So many black women I know, and me too, often complain that the men don't try, that they think, "oh, it's just a black woman, why bother?"  And here Randall is, trying and Beth's like, "meh."  Interesting. 

However, I can see Beth's feelings too.  Randall wants things to go HIS way.  He wanted to propose to her HIS way, that's why Beth took him to HER favorite restaurant and had HER favorite meal.  It wasn't that she didn't want to marry Randall, but she wanted things to be equal, and I totally can get behind that.  

I understood the conversation Beth had with Randall, but they should not have had it at 4am when they were both tired.  

And when Beth wanted to spend the day alone, did she really?  Randall told her to go, but SHE was the one who gave in.  Was that Randall's fault?  

Randall didn't "let" Beth do something; SHE allowed it.  She never told him, STOP RANDALL, I NEED SOMETHING.... So she can't fault him for something she never verbalized.  

I think I have a problem with Beth because I have so many friends, women who are with men who cheat on them with other women, who are with men who don't want to pay child support, with men who don't give a shit.  And I feel, WTF is wrong with Beth.  I see her point, but I have a problem with her too.

First of all, I completely agree on the 4am observation and the "Was that Randall's fault" thing too.

Beyond that, I find it interesting what you said about you and black women you know feeling that men sometimes don't try, because, I'm a white woman, and my reaction to Beth just wearing a sweatshirt on that first date, was that it wasn't realistic that she went out in that, once she saw he was in a suit.

Now, I'm judging from the outside, but based on my own observation and opinions about the black women I know, they try a lot (I mean that in a complimentary way). The black girls I went to high school with (predominantly white school in a white suburb, and 95% of our black students were voluntarily bussed in from a nearby city) on average, dressed much better than the white girls. One of the city girls was our "best dressed" in our yearbook, and she deserved it, hands down.

Similarly, the black women I've worked with seem to put more time into their appearance than many of their white peers (on average), down to hair, hosiery, and accessories. The church I go to is mostly white, but the women of color who do attend are generally speaking still wearing Sunday-best, where the white women (myself included) aren't always doing the same.

So it was partially for that reason that I had a hard time believing that when Randall showed up in a suit, Beth didn't run back into her dorm on a pretext and put on a blouse or even a sweater. Also though, just having once been an 18 year old girl, if a boy showed up to my dorm in a suit, and I was wearing a sweatshirt and dungaree skirt, I would have had the "Where are we going?" conversation with him, before we went anywhere, and would have said, "Well, I can't wear this, when you're dressed like that. Give me five minutes to change."

I loved that Beth wouldn't take the restaurant's racist bullshit, but I didn't like that she was so mean to Randall on a first date. I can't figure out why there was a second.  That said, I'm glad there was, because they're one of my favorite TV couples, even though this fight. 

On 3/29/2019 at 3:22 PM, albinerhawk said:

I have to say, that I mostly Team Beth, but...I think one argument really was unfair to Randall. As they are having nachos, Beth confesses to Randall that she fears disconnecting with Tess when her maternity leave is over. Randall thoughtfully considers her comment and says they can try and work with that. Then she kind of blows up that it would mean Beth having to make the sacrifice. Now that seemed unreasonable to me. Beth didn't say she was concerned about Tess not having a parent at home and going to daycare, she was concerned about her personal relationship with Tess. Even if Randall were to quit his day job and be a SAHP, Beth would still be working and not spending that time with Tess. I felt Randall was being generous in saying that if Beth was concerned then they could do with less income, but he never told her to.

I thought she was way out of line on that one, for exactly what you say. Her expressed worry was about missing Tess. Now, I get that she was worried about her career too, and was probably worried about not only the toll working might take on her relationship with Tess, but the toll motherhood might take on her professional life, and those are both reasonable things. But she didn't tell her husband both things. She just said the thing about losing the closeness with the baby.

Also, as far as her nacho analogy goes, I rolled my eyes. The frigging bowl of nachos is right there on the table, between you, Beth. Is Randall supposed to watch which kind of nacho you take, and match you chip for chip? Grab a big nacho while there are some. For crying out loud. 

On 3/29/2019 at 5:40 PM, Lunula said:

Gotta say, I'm kind of weirded out that anyone thinks they should separate or divorce over what they are currently going through. That's just marriage. Good and bad. Thick and thin. All that stuff. I've been married for going on 22 years and we had long stretches where we were pissed at each other, didn't see eye to eye and had issues - but that didn't mean we had to separate to stay together. Perhaps it's my old school thinking, but I can't see throwing away a marriage that has been mostly successful and happy because something ugly comes up.

Married almost 25 years and I completely agree. I love this man. We are one. That doesn't mean we don't hurt and/or anger each other.

In the end, I'm team Randall+Beth, and if they do break up (I don't think they will divorce), I will be so disappointed in both of them.

Did anyone watch the aftershow that @ElectricBoogaloo  posted earlier in the thread? It was really good. I liked what SKW said about Beth just not being able to bend this time, and how that's been such a part of their rhythm, so Randall feels like their rhythm is off, because she can't bend this time.

Edited March 30, 2019 by General Days

[Sake614]

Didn’t Rebecca say st the hospital that she and Miguel had already looked at a retirement community in LA? It wasn’t a spur of the moment decision when the baby was born. They’d already discussed it. Certainly the weather is better in LA than in NJ/PA(earthquakes/wildfires/flash flooding notwithstanding 😏).

as for why there was ever a second date for Beth and Randall after she told him not to call her again, they showed her in her dorm room that nightl. She pulled out his check, saw ‘first date with Beth clarke’ and smiled. So clearly she wasn’t as turned off by him as she initially appeared. He WAS a lot and it was a LOT for two 18 year olds to go to such a fancy restaurant. Black, white, green or purple, they were the only kids there. I certainly wouldn’t have been comfortable in such a place when I was 18. My dates generally were at the local diner where I usually ran into a bunch of friends who were also there. 

[bybrandy]

On 3/28/2019 at 9:07 AM, MsChicklet said:

Beth spoke of Rebecca as "Randall's mother" to her assistant as opposed to "the girls' grandmother," which would seem more likely if she and Randall had been divorced for more than 10 years.

I thought they were probably still together because the person she was talking to at the studio presumably knew who Randall was and with the girls being grown Randall wouldn't be an every day person in Beth's life if they were divorced so workers at the studio would be less likely to know Randall.  

On 3/28/2019 at 1:02 PM, kili said:

She's right about the chips. He just doesn't notice.

The prop department totally worked hard for this chip metaphor.  Because the whole time he was eating the nachos I was like, man that is a perfect nacho.  Like they were absurdly perfect despite that bowl not even a little bit being appropriate for nachos.   And then Beth was all like, "you take all the perfect nachos."  

Truth.  

But I know a lot of women who have had the epiphany that it is fine to take the biggest slice of cake or the juiciest slice of roast.  As women we so often are giving all our love away and it is natural to make sure all the people we love get the best on the table and we are left with the dregs.   And multiple women I know have said, "I decided I was going to take the big piece" expecting for there to be some kind of rebellion or disappointment or whatever..  but in every single case nobody in the family noticed.  Mom had been sacrificing all this time for everybody to have the best bits of the meal and nobody noticed.  

So I really, really, truly saw Randall taking all the good nachos (make nachos on a platter so there aren't multiple layers of chips!!!!) but we don't know that Randall would have objected if Beth had gone in for the good chips!   Right now Beth is demanding her big cheesy nacho and I really hope it works out for her.

[alexvillage]

On 3/27/2019 at 1:26 PM, Mrs.Monkey said:

Are you even allowed to pay by check at a restaurant? And how is writing a check going to prove he has the funds to cover dinner? I can write a check for a million dollars but it doesn't mean I have that money in my account.  It made no sense.

It would be discrimination (even beyond the clear discrimination because the kids were black) to not accept a check, unless the restaurant explicitly says they will only take credit cards or cash. Not to mention that it is extremely elitist to assume that everyone must own a credit card to begin with. The point of the scene was to point out the internalized racism that, in Beth's view, had taken over Randall.

I am not sure of the timeline anymore but maybe at the time they were in college the scam to get students to take on credit cards had not started yet.

[PRgal]

55 minutes ago, alexvillage said:

It would be discrimination (even beyond the clear discrimination because the kids were black) to not accept a check, unless the restaurant explicitly says they will only take credit cards or cash. Not to mention that it is extremely elitist to assume that everyone must own a credit card to begin with. The point of the scene was to point out the internalized racism that, in Beth's view, had taken over Randall.

I am not sure of the timeline anymore but maybe at the time they were in college the scam to get students to take on credit cards had not started yet.

Some restaurants DO require credit cards at the point of reservation (which I assume means they can...er...charge you a no show fee.  Wait, are they even allowed to do that?).  I've only had to do it once for an online reservation (via OpenTable).  My mom got me a credit card just before I left for school (the same year Randall started Carnegie Mellon).  

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, alexvillage said:

I am not sure of the timeline anymore but maybe at the time they were in college the scam to get students to take on credit cards had not started yet.

Randall's freshman year...we should be in '98. We had credit card reps set up in the cafeteria lobby from time to time when I was in college ('93-'97). I didn't have an actual credit card until late in my junior year (and did not get it through any of those reps), but we could use our student ID like a credit card on campus, and my parents paid the bill (within reason) so I learned not to overspend because I had to answer to them (way scarier than any bank! 😉). I only did it once (and now I have an excellent credit rating because I learned early when the consequences were mild; I had friends who were not so lucky).

[alexvillage]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

Some restaurants DO require credit cards at the point of reservation (which I assume means they can...er...charge you a no show fee.  Wait, are they even allowed to do that?).  I've only had to do it once for an online reservation (via OpenTable).  My mom got me a credit card just before I left for school (the same year Randall started Carnegie Mellon).  

Yes, they are allowed to do whatever they want if they already have a established clientele, or if they just want to discriminate, and are so arrogant they will give themselves a super duper restaurant status to justify whatever fees they want to charge.

The so-called exclusive restaurants might have a selected clientele and ask for the card in advance because they don't trust people who are not proven rich.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, alexvillage said:

Yes, they are allowed to do whatever they want if they already have a established clientele, or if they just want to discriminate, and are so arrogant they will give themselves a super duper restaurant status to justify whatever fees they want to charge.

The so-called exclusive restaurants might have a selected clientele and ask for the card in advance because they don't trust people who are not proven rich.

Just to add, they obviously have to tell you that there is a cancellation fee ahead of time.

And, not sure how having a credit card proves you're rich.  Pretty much everybody has a credit nowadays.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Yes, they are allowed to do whatever they want if they already have a established clientele, or if they just want to discriminate, and are so arrogant they will give themselves a super duper restaurant status to justify whatever fees they want to charge.

The so-called exclusive restaurants might have a selected clientele and ask for the card in advance because they don't trust people who are not proven rich.

Not sure how a "list" would work for a third party reservation service like OpenTable though.  I've never worked in a restaurant, so I obviously don't know how OpenTable's backend works.  The only thing I can think of is the number of reservations the client has made (either on OpenTable or with the restaurant itself - like they might want all first-timers to enter their credit card number).  I've never been asked at check-in.  

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

And, not sure how having a credit card proves you're rich.  Pretty much everybody has a credit nowadays.

Sorry if the post was confusing. I didn't mean that having a credit card means you are rich. I have a bunch andI can guarantee you, I will never get close to dream of being a little closer to rich. I meant that some restaurants might demand fees and a card on file type of thing if they are considered "high end" or with selective clientele. 

[General Days]

22 hours ago, Sake614 said:

as for why there was ever a second date for Beth and Randall after she told him not to call her again, they showed her in her dorm room that nightl. She pulled out his check, saw ‘first date with Beth clarke’ and smiled. So clearly she wasn’t as turned off by him as she initially appeared. He WAS a lot and it was a LOT for two 18 year olds to go to such a fancy restaurant. Black, white, green or purple, they were the only kids there. I certainly wouldn’t have been comfortable in such a place when I was 18. My dates generally were at the local diner where I usually ran into a bunch of friends who were also there. 

No, I don't know why he wanted to got out with her again.  In my head, I've convinced myself that afterwards he was impressed that she wasn't going to take the racist bullshit from the restaurant, but (I only watched once, so I could be forgetting stuff), she was so unpleasant to him, I can't figure out why he bothered to try again. 

I get why he liked her prior to the date. He liked her from afar (but that's a young man's physical attraction to a pretty young woman), but the date wasn't only a disaster because Randall was too much, but also because Beth not only got mad at the restaurant's racist treatment of them, but also at Randall, and treated him like crap.

She was freaked out, sure (and I do get that because the suit, the flowers, the fancy restaurant were all way too much), but in that instance, Randall made the mistake of what? Other than his TMI blurts, he made the mistake of trying too hard to treat her like a lady (dress for her, buy flowers she might like, take her to a nice place), whereas she was just mean. 
 

18 hours ago, bybrandy said:

But I know a lot of women who have had the epiphany that it is fine to take the biggest slice of cake or the juiciest slice of roast.  As women we so often are giving all our love away and it is natural to make sure all the people we love get the best on the table and we are left with the dregs.   And multiple women I know have said, "I decided I was going to take the big piece" expecting for there to be some kind of rebellion or disappointment or whatever..  but in every single case nobody in the family noticed.  Mom had been sacrificing all this time for everybody to have the best bits of the meal and nobody noticed.  

So I really, really, truly saw Randall taking all the good nachos (make nachos on a platter so there aren't multiple layers of chips!!!!) but we don't know that Randall would have objected if Beth had gone in for the good chips!   Right now Beth is demanding her big cheesy nacho and I really hope it works out for her.

I don't think Randall would have objected if Beth had gone in for good chips. I love your story about your friends' epiphany on this kind of thing, probably because I'm a wife and mother. I also know too many women who have some measure of unhappiness in their marriage, because they're tired of the status quo, which they've put up with for years, instead of saying a few good, hard NOs.

My husband is a great dad, but when our kids were little, he put up with way more stuff from them than I did.  He would take it for longer than I would take it, and then he would get much angrier (not in an abusive way, just REALLY ANGRY instead of mad), once he couldn't take it anymore. I was much quicker to tell them to cut the crap, or get cranky with them, but I didn't have all that frustration build up in me, because I wouldn't take the crap in the first place. Imo, Beth is to Randall like my husband was to our kids.

To be clear, I do think Randall and his too-much-ness is responsible for a lot of the trouble between them. His running for office in another state was so impractical and bound to strain them all (the whole family) even if Beth was and wanted to remain a stay-at-home mother, without taking the dance instructor job.

I also don't necessarily think Beth should be the one to bend this time. It's clear she's done so too often, and I think for her personal health happiness, she needs to take a stand for herself. I just don't think Randall has been worse during the argument than Beth.  

And I really want them to fix this and have a happy marriage. 

[JKL845]

I guess I'm just mad about this manufactured fight. The writers are better than this. We are supposed to believe that this successful, wealthy, hard working couple doesn't have babysitters. For social events, date night etc. Not that these children even need a babysitter at their ages. Also why would they need someone who specializes in adoption or gay issues. They just need someone a couple of hours a week to help with homework and dinner. If Tess and Deja need help, then find a counselor who specializes in their problems. R & B are too smart for this to be a big issue between them. 

[pennben]

5 hours ago, General Days said:

She was freaked out, sure (and I do get that because the suit, the flowers, the fancy restaurant were all way too much), but in that instance, Randall made the mistake of what? Other than his TMI blurts, he made the mistake of trying too hard to treat her like a lady (dress for her, buy flowers she might like, take her to a nice place), whereas she was just mean. 
 

It’s not so much that Randall did anything wrong, per se, but that he didn’t do anything right for Beth, as an indiviual. He did everything right from what he’s learned; that doesn’t earn him a second date. And, he utterly failed on what she found important...not bowing to obvious racism  

That gets into (tm) “Nice Guy” territory...I followed playbook, she didn’t respond, that’s on her, not me. 

Sort of like proposing repeatedly when other party says “I’m not ready yet”.   sure, some might find that romantic, others can find that smothering and disrespectful.  

Edited April 1, 2019 by pennben

[bros402]

On 3/30/2019 at 7:14 PM, General Days said:

First of all, what he had both during Beth's pregnancy and William's illness were much bigger than anxiety attacks.  (I have anxiety, I'm not pulling this out of my ass).  Didn't he have psychosomatic (or some other kind of) blindness during the pregnancy anxiety period? 

That's was a full-on nervous breakdown. I remember Kevin had to go help Randall during his problem when William was sick, but don't recall the particulars,  but that was a really severe attack, if not a small breakdown.

I have no idea how many anxiety attacks Randall has had over the years. They showed us a couple of extreme ones.  I'm sure he's had many more, semi-regularly. We saw the critical ones.

That said, Randall's first date was fueled by two things, his attraction to Beth, and his anxiety, which in Randall, exhibited itself that night as perfectionism (the suit, the flowers, the fancy restaurant), and the TMI blurt. That whole date was choreographed by Randall's over-production of adrenaline and low serotonin levels (and his issues of being good enough).

Having to bring William home right away? Insisting William see a Randall-approved doctor? Buying and rehabbing dead William's apartment building? Those were,  in part, all fueled by his anxiety, as was his feeling threatened at his old job, and his quitting his old job. 

tbh Randall insisting William see a doctor he approves of was a good idea - Randall is near enough to MSKCC where going to the #2 cancer center in the country wouldn't be much of a burden.

Yeah, Randall's events were full blown decompensatory events/nervous breakdowns. I imagine that saying he has a full on breakdown every 5-10 years would be accurate, maybe a bit of an underestimate. Since we saw one when Randall was a teen - well, that was just a panic attack, I have to imagine he had something around the time of Jack's death - if not then, then he definitely had to have one in college

[debraran]

2 hours ago, bros402 said:

tbh Randall insisting William see a doctor he approves of was a good idea - Randall is near enough to MSKCC where going to the #2 cancer center in the country wouldn't be much of a burden.

Yeah, Randall's events were full blown decompensatory events/nervous breakdowns. I imagine that saying he has a full on breakdown every 5-10 years would be accurate, maybe a bit of an underestimate. Since we saw one when Randall was a teen - well, that was just a panic attack, I have to imagine he had something around the time of Jack's death - if not then, then he definitely had to have one in college

Beth mentioned two, you know Randall had incidents at home, maybe more than we were shown. The one with Kevin was either the first or second Beth was talking about but it seemed like she was the steady one, he did have to leave a job after the one we saw if I remember correctly? Besides being a big part of their marriage, the recovery and the dread in your stomach, "Is this another?" when he acted in a certain way, why was their no mention of Randall getting help?  He must have seen doctor's, was he told to keep in touch, take medication, take something when he got anxious, do anything to help him with behavior he exhibits at times?  I just think it's a void in the show because Randall had money and maybe help is needed more when you are poor which isn't true. Even a passing line about seeing his therapist when deciding something crazy like running for office in another district. Sometimes a spouse is too close.

Edited April 1, 2019 by debraran

[PRgal]

15 hours ago, JKL845 said:

I guess I'm just mad about this manufactured fight. The writers are better than this. We are supposed to believe that this successful, wealthy, hard working couple doesn't have babysitters. For social events, date night etc. Not that these children even need a babysitter at their ages. Also why would they need someone who specializes in adoption or gay issues. They just need someone a couple of hours a week to help with homework and dinner. If Tess and Deja need help, then find a counselor who specializes in their problems. R & B are too smart for this to be a big issue between them. 

I don't think Randall and Beth as as "wealthy" as they were when they both had jobs.  Randall's salary was probably over $250K when he was working in finance and Beth's, though significantly less, was still above average.  Though they are well above average even now, there's A LOT of "keeping up with the Joneses" and they definitely are less financially well-off NOW than they were a few years ago.  If they DO get help, it has to be the "right kind" of help.  

Annie isn't old enough to stay home herself.  As for Tess and Deja helping out, they probably have after school activities and can't be there all the time.  

[Katy M]

28 minutes ago, PRgal said:

If they DO get help, it has to be the "right kind" of help.  

Annie isn't old enough to stay home herself.  As for Tess and Deja helping out, they probably have after school activities and can't be there all the time.  

But, Annie doesn't need anything special.  The "right kind of help is for Deja, the new adoptee or foster kid, and Tessa, the not quite out kid. 

I do agree that they have gone through a lot of their savings in the last 2 years, so they aren't on the same financial level as they were at the beginning of the series.  Multiple cross country trips, health care for William (who wouldn't be on Randall's insurance), a political campaign, Deja trashed Randall's car.  All that adds up for a family that is no longer earning much, if any, money.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Katy M

[Crs97]

If he dropped over $100k on a car, I hope he was making more than $250,000 per year.  I assume that someone who can predict money to be made off weather patterns knows how to invest wisely and has a lot more passive income than we think until, of course, they decide they need a nanny rather than a high school kid with a car and license.

[JKL845]

If it's between Beth giving up her dream job or Tess and Deja taking turns being there for Annie, they should have the sister's helping out. I'm sure Deja wasn't involved in after school activities when she was with her bio mom. R & B could even have dinner planned before they leave, it's not that hard. People with a LOT less money do it every day. There a many different ways for them to make it work but for them to not even explore it with how smart they are, doesn't make sense. I help other working parents out all the time and know plenty of people who do too. Sell the expensive car for something more reasonable. That should get them through until Annie is old enough. What were they doing during the summers and school breaks before this? Did Beth only work when the kids were in school? Doesn't seem like it. They worked it out before, why not now?

Edited April 1, 2019 by JKL845

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

But, Annie doesn't need anything special.  The "right kind of help is for Deja, the new adoptee or foster kid, and Tessa, the not quite out kid.

Granted, I’m straight and don’t know many adolescents who are coming out, but I don’t understand why Tessa’s realization that she likes girls means she needs special help.

[Katy M]

23 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Granted, I’m straight and don’t know many adolescents who are coming out, but I don’t understand why Tessa’s realization that she likes girls means she needs special help.

I'm just going with what Randall said.  She may very well need someone to talk to, but I don't think it needs to be the babysitter.

[Katy M]

39 minutes ago, JKL845 said:

If it's between Beth giving up her dream job or Tess and Deja taking turns being there for Annie, they should have the sister's helping out. I'm sure Deja wasn't involved in after school activities when she was with her bio mom. R & B could even have dinner planned before they leave, it's not that hard. People with a LOT less money do it every day. There a many different ways for them to make it work but for them to not even explore it with how smart they are, doesn't make sense. I help other working parents out all the time and know plenty of people who do too. Sell the expensive car for something more reasonable. That should get them through until Annie is old enough. What were they doing during the summers and school breaks before this? Did Beth only work when the kids were in school? Doesn't seem like it. They worked it out before, why not now?

Deja was on the drill team when she was with her bio mom.  But, if it's only, I've forgotten now if it was 2 or 3 nights, but I doubt Deja and Tess would have all their after school activities on the same day.  Limiting them to one each would not be an undue hardship.  I know a couple that did that because it was getting to be too much keeping up with 2 kids' extracurricular activities, so they were each told to pick one and that's what they could do.  Plus, I'm still unclear on the hours.  If Beth is home right after school and has a 6:00 class on the evenings she teaches, I don't see the big deal at all.  Activities are usually over with by then, unless you're doing a team thing with away games, in which case you may not get home until midnight, in which case I would imagine Beth would be done by then.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

But, Annie doesn't need anything special.  The "right kind of help is for Deja, the new adoptee or foster kid, and Tessa, the not quite out kid. 

I do agree that they have gone through a lot of their savings in the last 2 years, so they aren't on the same financial level as they were at the beginning of the series.  Multiple cross country trips, health care for William (who wouldn't be on Randall's insurance), a political campaign, Deja trashed Randall's car.  All that adds up for a family that is no longer earning much, if any, money.

The "right kind of help" doesn't mean someone specialized in this case.  It means a caregiver that isn't just some random sitter.  Because often in these neighbourhoods, it's often either family members or nannies/housekeepers - unless, of course, it's not something permanent (like someone needing a sitter for date night).  And they no longer have the budget for the latter.  

[Katy M]

21 minutes ago, PRgal said:

The "right kind of help" doesn't mean someone specialized in this case.  It means a caregiver that isn't just some random sitter.  Because often in these neighbourhoods, it's often either family members or nannies/housekeepers - unless, of course, it's not something permanent (like someone needing a sitter for date night).  And they no longer have the budget for the latter.  

But, it does mean someone specialized. Randall said they need a grad student who specialized in just coming out pre-teens and newly adopted children, or something to that effect.  That was the craziness he was pricing.

[NutMeg]

Randall made the profile of the would be sitter very complicated so that there would be no better choice than Beth.

He's been guilt tripping Beth since the start. And because of some chemistry in how she was brought up, she reacts exactly the way he expects her to to all his guilt tripping exercises.

Edited April 2, 2019 by NutMeg
added an s, bolded

[izabella]

5 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Granted, I’m straight and don’t know many adolescents who are coming out, but I don’t understand why Tessa’s realization that she likes girls means she needs special help.

I took Randall's meaning to be someone who isn't homophobic, which might not have been a qualification they would have specifically considered before Tess's realization, and not that Randall thought she needed anyone's help.

[bros402]

21 hours ago, debraran said:

Beth mentioned two, you know Randall had incidents at home, maybe more than we were shown. The one with Kevin was either the first or second Beth was talking about but it seemed like she was the steady one, he did have to leave a job after the one we saw if I remember correctly? Besides being a big part of their marriage, the recovery and the dread in your stomach, "Is this another?" when he acted in a certain way, why was their no mention of Randall getting help?  He must have seen doctor's, was he told to keep in touch, take medication, take something when he got anxious, do anything to help him with behavior he exhibits at times?  I just think it's a void in the show because Randall had money and maybe help is needed more when you are poor which isn't true. Even a passing line about seeing his therapist when deciding something crazy like running for office in another district. Sometimes a spouse is too close.

Randall decided to leave the job because they sent him something he was allergic to after William died.

I believe Randall sees doctors -after his breakdown, when he and Beth were seeing the doctor, it seemed like they were familiar with each other. He does seem like he would not want to see a therapist, though

[jmonique]

On 3/31/2019 at 6:34 PM, JKL845 said:

I guess I'm just mad about this manufactured fight. The writers are better than this. We are supposed to believe that this successful, wealthy, hard working couple doesn't have babysitters. For social events, date night etc. Not that these children even need a babysitter at their ages. Also why would they need someone who specializes in adoption or gay issues. They just need someone a couple of hours a week to help with homework and dinner. If Tess and Deja need help, then find a counselor who specializes in their problems. R & B are too smart for this to be a big issue between them. 

I can't find the post, but another poster asked if I find Beth blameless in all of this. I don't, but deep down, this is my biggest problem in all of this: Randall and Beth's fight seems MASSIVELY contrived.

What man with three children who depend on him quits an incredibly high-paying job out of nowhere? Yes, his birth father had passed, and sure, they sent something he was allergic to. Doesn't matter: Suck it up because you're about to have three college bills to pay for, along with all of the other day-to-day necessities. 

What man buys a run-down building while unemployed, thinks he can fix it, then promptly forgets about it?

What man up and runs for city councilman in not just a city that he doesn't live in, but a STATE he doesn't live in, and keeps running even after his wife joins him on the unemployment line?

While it reads like I blame Randall, I mainly blame the writers for taking some HUGE swings at contrived storylines in order to set up some big fights between Randall and Beth, in what feels like bids for headlines and Emmys.

But in regards to do I blame Beth? I see a woman who went too far to try to support her man and make a living at a "real" job, who tried for a real long time to walk the path her domineering mother set her on, while they were both in grief. I saw her at least trying to rectify some of that, while still working a job at a nearby studio, and trying to open up a dialog with her husband. I saw her serve up some truths that may not have been pretty, but at least she was being honest after he forced her into having this fight on HIS schedule, of course. And I saw him reject that, and shut it all down.

So yeah, when it comes to the storyline, I'm still feelin' Beth's side, but overall, I'm wondering how much longer I'll actually care about this show when there is NO sunlight or happiness, just relapse, a premie fighting for his life, and potential divorce.

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, jmonique said:

What man with three children who depend on him quits an incredibly high-paying job out of nowhere? Yes, his birth father had passed, and sure, they sent something he was allergic to. Doesn't matter: Suck it up because you're about to have three college bills to pay for, along with all of the other day-to-day necessities. 

I don't feel like he quit out of nowhere.  Even before William died, we saw the amount of stress he was under.  and, I think the allergic thing was just the last straw about them not caring.  I really have no issue with him quitting that job. They clearly had savings to live on for at least a couple of years. But, go find a new job, Randall. And, he only had 2 kids at that point, not that that makes that much difference.

16 minutes ago, jmonique said:

What man up and runs for city councilman in not just a city that he doesn't live in, but a STATE he doesn't live in, and keeps running even after his wife joins him on the unemployment line?

He actually didn't start until she was unemployed, which makes this one all the worse.  

[TwoGrayTabbies]

14 minutes ago, jmonique said:

I can't find the post, but another poster asked if I find Beth blameless in all of this. I don't, but deep down, this is my biggest problem in all of this: Randall and Beth's fight seems MASSIVELY contrived.

What man with three children who depend on him quits an incredibly high-paying job out of nowhere? Yes, his birth father had passed, and sure, they sent something he was allergic to. Doesn't matter: Suck it up because you're about to have three college bills to pay for, along with all of the other day-to-day necessities. 

What man buys a run-down building while unemployed, thinks he can fix it, then promptly forgets about it?

What man up and runs for city councilman in not just a city that he doesn't live in, but a STATE he doesn't live in, and keeps running even after his wife joins him on the unemployment line?

While it reads like I blame Randall, I mainly blame the writers for taking some HUGE swings at contrived storylines in order to set up some big fights between Randall and Beth, in what feels like bids for headlines and Emmys.

But in regards to do I blame Beth? I see a woman who went too far to try to support her man and make a living at a "real" job, who tried for a real long time to walk the path her domineering mother set her on, while they were both in grief. I saw her at least trying to rectify some of that, while still working a job at a nearby studio, and trying to open up a dialog with her husband. I saw her serve up some truths that may not have been pretty, but at least she was being honest after he forced her into having this fight on HIS schedule, of course. And I saw him reject that, and shut it all down.

So yeah, when it comes to the storyline, I'm still feelin' Beth's side, but overall, I'm wondering how much longer I'll actually care about this show when there is NO sunlight or happiness, just relapse, a premie fighting for his life, and potential divorce.

Agree 110%. Instead of writing a plausible, relatable conflict that grew organically from realistic circumstances, the writers just concocted a bunch of extremely improbable events. Moreover:  Not only did Randall take actions he would not do IRL, the writers haven’t followed through with the expected consequences:

IRL, he and Beth would have had a discussion about the financial fallout of quitting his job.  There would have at least been some necessary adjustments.  But we’re just supposed to assume that there’s no mortgage on the house (which is around $1 million?  At least $500,000?  I’m a Detroiter—I honestly don’t know Alpine real estate values.  But if I were writing a show set in Alpine I would have researched it.)  And we must assume he’s such a phenomenal investor that they have enough passive income to continue their lifestyle.

IRL, Randall would still be dealing with the apartment building.  New repair needs would have arisen, tenants would have fallen behind in rent, there would be code compliance issues, property tax, etc.  But we’re supposed to assume he got it all nicely tied up with a neat bow.

BIGGEST of all:  Deja would still be working through her substantial grief and trauma issues.  A kid doesn’t go through neglect, foster care, abuse, parental relinquishment, and adoption with no worse effect than a one-time impulse to smash a windshield.

If it weren’t for a compulsive need to always find out how a story ends, I would have quit this show when the political story began.  I should feel foolish that the writers lured me in with the “Her” mystery.  Hopefully it will actually be answered tonight and I can kick this habit.

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

Agree 110%. Instead of writing a plausible, relatable conflict that grew organically from realistic circumstances, the writers just concocted a bunch of extremely improbable events. Moreover:  Not only did Randall take actions he would not do IRL, the writers haven’t followed through with the expected consequences: 

IRL, he and Beth would have had a discussion about the financial fallout of quitting his job.  There would have at least been some necessary adjustments.  But we’re just supposed to assume that there’s no mortgage on the house (which is around $1 million?  At least $500,000?  I’m a Detroiter—I honestly don’t know Alpine real estate values.  But if I were writing a show set in Alpine I would have researched it.)  And we must assume he’s such a phenomenal investor that they have enough passive income to continue their lifestyle.

I don't know if that's necessarily true. Most people would have that discussion, but not everybody.  Think of all the people who get married without ever once discussing whether or not they want kids, or what the game plan will be if one of them loses their job, or how they should budget their money, etc.  It's not at all realistic to not communicate.  And I think the writers have at least been consistent with presenting us with a Randall that is impetuous and does things big or not at all, and a Beth who says yes to almost everything.

14 minutes ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

IRL, Randall would still be dealing with the apartment building.  New repair needs would have arisen, tenants would have fallen behind in rent, there would be code compliance issues, property tax, etc.  But we’re supposed to assume he got it all nicely tied up with a neat bow.

I definitely agree with this.  Especially since we were presented with an extremely run-down building.  Which is another part of the reason I don't have an issue with their money status seemingly being so much different.  That place is a more than likely a money pit and Randall would be dead against raising rents.  I'm fanwanking that he's hired a building manager who is taking care of the repairs and such and we're just not hearing about it.

[lucindabelle]

33 minutes ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

Agree 110%. Instead of writing a plausible, relatable conflict that grew organically from realistic circumstances, the writers just concocted a bunch of extremely improbable events. Moreover:  Not only did Randall take actions he would not do IRL, the writers haven’t followed through with the expected consequences:

Such a great point. I have been critical of the whole retrofitted "Beth's a dancer manquee" thing, but failed to notice the sloppy writing it led to. Beth and Randall were NOT written this way in previous seasons.

And yes, it makes ZERO sense for Randall to behave this irresponsibly from everything we know about him. He is the LEAST likely guy to just hand wave the coming college tuition away. but the writers wanted a Big Clash.

Honestly, I'd like to pretend most of this season didn't happen, which is how I feel about the last book of The Chronicles of Narnia. Jack's brother died in Viet Nam-- we don't learn Jack was an unforgiving liar who cut off his brother and lied about it. Beth is a career woman without a buried dream in the arts that not one word or action was ever said about in two years. Randall's midlife crisis was just his car in season one, not a career change.

I mean on top of everything else, this family now has to pay their own insurance bills, when presumably before they were covered through Randall's job. With a family of five that adds up even if people don't have big issues. Premiums alone are thousands a month.

Shaking head, just no.

[Katy M]

As for Tessa and Annie's college, I'm sure that they already saved up full tuition in accounts that they don't/can't touch. I'm not worried about that in the least.  they do need to start a fund for Deja, though, and have a late start.

Randall will get health insurance with his councilman job.

[Brookside]

https://www.glamour.com/story/this-is-us-kate-gives-birth

This interview addresses some of the questions we all have.

[lucindabelle]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

As for Tessa and Annie's college, I'm sure that they already saved up full tuition in accounts that they don't/can't touch. I'm not worried about that in the least.  they do need to start a fund for Deja, though, and have a late start.

Randall will get health insurance with his councilman job.

But Randall quit without knowing he'd get that job. Stunningly irresponsible.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, lucindabelle said:

But Randall quit without knowing he'd get that job. Stunningly irresponsible.

Beth had a job at that point that they may have been able to get health insurance through. Plus, randall could continue to buy his work insurance for another 6 months.    Realistically speaking, if someone like Randall needs a job, he can get one.  

[lucindabelle]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Beth had a job at that point that they may have been able to get health insurance through. Plus, randall could continue to buy his work insurance for another 6 months.    Realistically speaking, if someone like Randall needs a job, he can get one.  

When did Beth lose her job? I thought it was before he was running. I disagree that he could just get a job. Randall was a very highly paid executive, and in NJ/NY employment is tight (I live here). He would be too expensive for a lot of companies, many of whom have been having massive layoffs. Of course Randall and Beth can have COBRA, my point is that insurance is expensive, COBRA or not. Now, I was under the impression that they were multi multi millionaires (from the way they were presented in season one), but they clearly have walked that back with their remarks about the babysitter. So it brings me back to Randall making big decisions impulsively. Which doesn't really jibe with the little boy who'd rather study than even dance at a party.

But, I'm on the record of being frustrated with both of them. It's really only on TV that people worry about dreams more than responsibilities. Maybe TV writers just don't know what it's like once they get to that level (I mean, minimum is something like $30k an episode). I doubt anybody on that staff has any idea of the kind of work Beth and Randall were supposed to have done. We heard vaguely about "projects" and having to work on Saturday. Didn't ring remotely true. In the real world, most people don't love their job all the time (even in the creative professions).

I guess, I just don't really like this show anymore. I don't love watching people argue, especially, and I also find the whole thing contrived. But even if I didn't, the show doesn't charm me enough anymore.

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

When did Beth lose her job? I thought it was before he was running.

Yes, it was.  But, I was talking about him quitting his job earlier.  Beth lsot her job the same day Randall decided to run and he just steamrolled over that and didn't even care.

15 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

I disagree that he could just get a job. Randall was a very highly paid executive, and in NJ/NY employment is tight (I live here). He would be too expensive for a lot of companies,

I never once said he could get a job making what he was making, but they could easily survive on a lot less.

16 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

Now, I was under the impression that they were multi multi millionaires (from the way they were presented in season one),

I don' tknow about multi multi millionaires, but they were definitely well off.  What people need to remember is that RAndall hired expensive specialists for William that would not have covered under any insurance.  William had been consigned to just die by Medicaid.  This would have cost a lot of money. Then, they bought an apartment building.  An apartment building, even in a bad neighborhood is not going to go for loose change.  Then, they did a lot of work on it.  Add to that Randall then, I am sure, spent beaucoup bucks on his campaign.  All of this could have easily cost well over a million dollars. And, I'm not even counting a number of cross country flights, legal representation regarding Deja, the insurance premiums that you mentioned.

[lucindabelle]

7 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Ye need to remember is that RAndall hired expensive specialists for William that would not have covered under any insurance.  William had been consigned to just die by Medicaid.  This would have cost a lot of money. Then, they bought an apartment building.  An apartment building, even in a bad neighborhood is not going to go for loose change.  Then, they did a lot of work on it.  Add to that Randall then, I am sure, spent beaucoup bucks on his campaign.  All of this could have easily cost well over a million dollars. And, I'm not even counting a number of cross country flights, legal representation regarding Deja, the insurance premiums that you mentioned.

f Randall had listed William as a dependent, he would be covered. And again, I was under the impression MULTI millionaires. I personally know people who have more than 50 million. I thought from the way they were presented that that's what Randall had too. It was at the least strongly implied. These very wealthy people often go to doctors who don't take insurance at all, because they can. I just can't believe that William's medical expenses broke them. And as for the building, sure, it would be pricey, but again, very wealthy people often have a lot of property anyway: three or four homes. Even if they're not the kind of people who charter planes or buy boats, it's not at all uncommon for people to have a city apartment, a big house, a summer property, a ski lodge. It just seems that Randall was presented as much richer than he was: people with only a million or two don't buy a car for $100,000 cash. that's the kind of thing you do when you have 10 or 20 million. In my experience.

Not that it really matters, though, because the show doesn't persuade me that it has any connection to reality anymore. A show that can retrofit that a man lied about his brother being alive, can retrofit that a woman had a secret artistic passion (that lay COMPLETELY dormant for 20 years), can certainly retrofit income.

ETA: Randall deciding to run on a day when they'd just lost their stable insurance is what I mean by irresponsible. At that moment he had to know they would have to get COBRA. For multi multi millionaires, no biggy. For someone with one or two million, it's a biggy. Knowing Beth lost her job, he should have postponed his idea of campaigning. Old Randall would have.

But again, this is partly why I've just gone off the show. The characters don't seem to have continuity.

Edited April 3, 2019 by lucindabelle

[bros402]

13 hours ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

IRL, he and Beth would have had a discussion about the financial fallout of quitting his job.  There would have at least been some necessary adjustments.  But we’re just supposed to assume that there’s no mortgage on the house (which is around $1 million?  At least $500,000?  I’m a Detroiter—I honestly don’t know Alpine real estate values.  But if I were writing a show set in Alpine I would have researched it.)  And we must assume he’s such a phenomenal investor that they have enough passive income to continue their lifestyle.

NJ has incredibly high real estate. So their house is easily 4 bedroom 3 bathroom at minimum - let's just say a 5 bedroom 4 bath. One is listed on Zillow at 1.485 million - the house is assessed by Bergen County at 1.4325 million

 

[General Days]

13 hours ago, Katy M said:

Beth had a job at that point that they may have been able to get health insurance through. Plus, randall could continue to buy his work insurance for another 6 months.    Realistically speaking, if someone like Randall needs a job, he can get one.  

COBRA would guarantee coverage for 18 months. Randall would have to pay out of pocket, at the group rate (and of course the employer contribution ends when employment ends).

13 hours ago, Katy M said:

I don' tknow about multi multi millionaires, but they were definitely well off.  What people need to remember is that RAndall hired expensive specialists for William that would not have covered under any insurance.  William had been consigned to just die by Medicaid.  This would have cost a lot of money. 

I don't remember enough of the William's insurance discussion when those episodes aired, but would he have been old enough to have Medicare as his primary insurance?

Also though, didn't the specialists agree William was terminal? I'm not sure he had tons of doctors visits. Even if Randall was paying out of pocket, in the end, wasn't the whole point of that storyline that Randall had to accept William wasn't long for this world? I don't think he paid for months of extensive treatment. I'm not saying it was chump change for regular people,  but for a man who bought a $100K car, because he wanted it, those bills might have been do-able.

13 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

f Randall had listed William as a dependent, he would be covered. And again, I was under the impression MULTI millionaires. I personally know people who have more than 50 million. I thought from the way they were presented that that's what Randall had too. It was at the least strongly implied. These very wealthy people often go to doctors who don't take insurance at all, because they can. I just can't believe that William's medical expenses broke them.

I don't know of any legal provisions that let you add a parent to your policy, just because they live with you, even if you can claim them as a dependent on say your taxes. 

Coverage is mandated for spouses, and for children up to the age of 26. There might be some cushy policies that allow you to add a parent, but I bet they're few and far between, even for someone with a job like Randall's old one. Extending coverage to parents isn't really a thing. AFAIK, it's not a protection afforded by healthcare law in the US. It's frustrating and stupid, but that's just how it is.  

[dcubed]

I think it's interesting how many think that the characters have changed/diverted from how they were initially portrayed.  I never bought into Season 1 "Jack is the best, Rebecca is the worst, Kevin is a brat, Kate is spoiled, Randall is awesome" theories.  Season 2, I didn't buy into "Jack is stream-rolling Rebecca, Rebecca is horrible to Kate, Kevin is a bigger jerk, Kate is a bigger brat, teen Randall is still awesome and Beth and Randall are perfect."  All along I saw things in all the characters that said they were not everything one could initially think.  I think it is quite normal as you get to know people, I found out things about them I didn't expect and that some of my initial impressions were not completely accurate.  As the layers of the onion was peeled, I found that some of the layers stunk and others were sweet.  I never expected that what we were shown initially was ever thing there was to know about them, it would have been too much.  I think this was written intentionally, to show that humans are complex, they are not all good, nor all bad and they couldn't show all that immediately.  It needed to be displayed over time because that's how people are.  I personally think the Pearson's are more "good" than "bad" but their faults are not uncommon and it makes sense the family pretty much follows in lock step in their most endearing and most annoying characteristics.  JMHO. 

[ShadowFacts]

14 minutes ago, General Days said:

COBRA would guarantee coverage for 18 months. Randall would have to pay out of pocket, at the group rate (and of course the employer contribution ends when employment ends).

I recently got myself COBRA continuation coverage, and the period of eligibility is now 36 months.

15 minutes ago, General Days said:

I don't remember enough of the William's insurance discussion when those episodes aired, but would he have been old enough to have Medicare as his primary insurance?

He might not have been 65.  Randall was 36 when he found him, say William was in his mid-twenties when Randall was born, that would put him in his early 60s.  I just took it that Randall was paying for his care out of pocket.  He was presented as a money-is-no-object kind of person at that time, still working. 

[General Days]

47 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I recently got myself COBRA continuation coverage, and the period of eligibility is now 36 months.

Replying in the Minutiae thread.