Rose Tyler: Bad Wolf

[Lisin]

Sigh. I miss Rose.

[April Bloodgate]

Am I the only one who doesn't like her? Easily my least favorite companion from the reboot.

[Lisin]

She isn't my favourite, and I do understand the dislike. Martha is my least favourite, but I would put Rose under The Ponds, Donna and Clara, I suppose what I meant by missing her is that I miss The Doctor and Rose when they were Ten and Rose together. Or I miss her for The Doctor... did that make sense?

[EricJ]

I like Rose fine, but what I don't like is the Cult of Rose, or perhaps, the Cult of Rose + Ten.

[Chip]

When Doctor Who came back in 2005, I thought Rose was great. I think her and Nine were fun together. But the Rose+Ten stuff did get pretty sappy towards the end for me. I never started to hate her, and I would totally watch a spin-off of her and Clone Ten in the alternate universe if it ever popped up.

Spoiler for 50th Anniversary:

I liked her appearance in the 50th as the weapon, but I did sort of want to see the real Rose back for a bit and see how her and Eleven got on.

 

[Valerie]

I liked her in Series 1 -- but then they assassinated her character after Series 2 and turned her into a selfish, whining brat.

[BizBuzz]

Rose and Nine were great together, didn't so much enjoy Rose and Ten too much. Having a teenage daughter, I can see through her (and her friends) eyes the shipping attraction of Ten and Rose. Me, that is what I didn't like about Ten and Rose.

[HauntedBathroom]

One of the many good things about the 50th anniversary was that it reminded me that I never had a problem with Billie Piper. She was just obeying orders when she portrayed Rose turning into the ultimate girlfriend from hell.

[StillNotGinger]

I was so glad they brought her back as Bad Wolf, not Rose. I also was reminded that I really like Billie Piper as an actress. It was just Rose that bugged.

I loved Rose with Nine, but after that the shipping got so ridiculous. I didn't have a problem with her & Ten being attracted to one another. It was adorable at times. It just got tedious. I also hate how their "romance" tainted Martha's time on the show.

[alias1]

Well, I guess I am the only one.  I loved Rose with Nine.  I loved Rose with Ten.  I loved Rose in the alternate universe (I cried).  I loved Martha with Ten.  I loved Donna with Ten.  I loved the progression and continuity of Russel T. Davis.   

 

I loved Bad Wolf in the 50th Anniversary Special.

[mledawn]

I'm there with you, SierraMist!

[jah1986]

So I just finished Doomsday and the end of Rose's time with 10. I really enjoyed Rose with Nine and I enjoyed her with Ten but I didn't see this great love she started professing. It was just over the top for me. I didn't cry, in fact I really wanted to smack Rose when Pete jumped in and saved her I cheered. It's like she completely overlooked the fact that the alternative was not a future with Ten but rather a future in deep dark pit with Daleks and Cybermen. 

 

I enjoyed their closeness and affection for each other but I just didn't see this great love story. I was happy that Jackie and Pete got together though.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I enjoyed their closeness and affection for each other but I just didn't see this great love story.

When they were labelling the companions in a special prior to the 50th anniversary, they said Rose was conceived to be "lover" in terms of her relationship, but I didn't see that either. I think the writers were afraid of offending the "no hanky panky in the TARDIS" crowd by suggesting too close of a relationship. Rose did once suggest getting a flat together when they thought the TARDIS was lost, but it bounced right off the Doctor and there was really no followup to the idea of being more than friends having adventures together.

[taanja]

 

 

 

I like Rose fine, but what I don't like is the Cult of Rose, or perhaps, the Cult of Rose + Ten.

 

I love Rose! I miss her. She was/is one of the best companions ever. And this is from someone who started watching Doctor Who back in the 70's.

 

I loved her best with Nine. Christopher Eccleston and Billie Piper had some of the best chemistry I have seen between two actors. So I guess I am saying I am a member of the Cult Of Rose. And damn proud of it!

 

[Danny Franks]

When they were labelling the companions in a special prior to the 50th anniversary, they said Rose was conceived to be "lover" in terms of her relationship, but I didn't see that either. I think the writers were afraid of offending the "no hanky panky in the TARDIS" crowd by suggesting too close of a relationship. Rose did once suggest getting a flat together when they thought the TARDIS was lost, but it bounced right off the Doctor and there was really no followup to the idea of being more than friends having adventures together.

 

I'd say it was definitely a chaste love story.

 

The idea of them being a couple was pretty much a constant, through their behaviour together, their unspoken declarations of love, the fact that other characters considered them together. Even Mickey, Rose's de facto boyfriend, just went with the idea that Rose and the Doctor were in love.

 

A lot of it was from Rose's side, with the Doctor being more closed off and remote, which is why I'm confused about why Martha gets castigated for her crush, but Rose seemingly never does. Yes, Rose was jealous when the Doctor spent time with another woman, yes Rose considered the idea of them being a 'normal couple', and Billie Piper definitely played her as being sexually attracted to the Doctor, particularly to Ten. But Martha was more upfront about it, and tried to press the issue once or twice, so she gets hated? Blech.

 

I guess I was never that invested in previous Doctor/Companion relationships to see much wrong in a bit of romance in the TARDIS. He's an alien who is clearly attracted to women (and men, some might argue), but humans look like Timelords, so why not? Yes, there's all the angsty, 'you wither and die, I stay the same' stuff, but that doesn't prohibit a bit of fun, surely? The complications would arise when there is genuine love, like there was with him and Rose.

 

As it was, I just felt they had a very strong, deep and fun relationship, whatever it was based on. Them interacting was usually the highlight of any episode. Billie Piper smiling that big, wide smile of hers was always enough reward for a nice bit of interplay. I didn't need, or want, to see anything more than that. Perhaps I'm just lucky in that I never really read too much stuff online about the show (except, sadly, some of the childish hate directed at Martha and Freema, for daring to be on the show when Rose wasn't), so wasn't really aware of the rampant 'shipping that accompanied the pairing.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

He's an alien who is clearly attracted to women (and men, some might argue), but humans look like Timelords, so why not? Yes, there's all the angsty, 'you wither and die, I stay the same' stuff, but that doesn't prohibit a bit of fun, surely?

Maybe he considers it cheating on his one true love, the TARDIS. She is sentient, and they've been together a long, long, time.

[Sakura12]

I'm a fan of Rose and the Rose/Doctor relationship. I thought they had a fun relationship and yes they forgot other people existed most of the time but that just how some people are in relationships. I loved when they smiled at each other, you can tell that Billie Piper and David Tennant loved working with each other. 

[TwistedandBored]

I'm a fan of Rose and the Rose/Doctor relationship. I thought they had a fun relationship and yes they forgot other people existed most of the time but that just how some people are in relationships. I loved when they smiled at each other, you can tell that Billie Piper and David Tennant loved working with each other. 

Me too. I really loved Rose Tyler as character and her relationship with The Doctor. 

[elle]

Rewatching "The Stolen Earth/The Journey's End", noticing that Rose's reaction to the possiblity of 10 regenerating was similar to how she felt about 9 becoming 10. - "is it still you?"   I know I'm not the first to wonder about how the story would have gone if 10 had become 11.  Could she have accepted him as she once had come to accept 10?

 

Just what was Rose hoping to do when she ripped through space and time to find 10?  Happy reunion, then what?  She would join him again in the Tardis?  If she was willing to go with him, forgetting about Handy10, why wouldn't 10 take her with him again instead of leaving her in the alternate universe with her family?

Edited September 17, 2015 by elle

[Ringthane]

I don't think 10.5 (HandTen) existed at that point.   He wasn't created until the Doctor regenerated, at which point Rose was already here and had found 10.  But knowing her, and how much she pouted during the video call where no one could see or hear her, she probably did want to get back with him and sail off into the sunset.

[Commando Cody]

I just re-watched the New Earth episode.  I never gave it thought before, but I think I may have liked to keep Rose as Cassandra. That might have been more entertaining. 

[snarktini]

Watched "School Reunion" today and it is Rose at her worst. She's so bitchy and petulant towards Sarah Jane and Mickey. 

 

Knowing how the whole Rose + 10 story ends, their relationship bugs me in reruns. At the time, it was not clear to me what the writers' intent was. I mostly read it as a one-way crush on Rose's part -- not unrequited exactly, clearly they loved being around each other, but I read it more as flirty BFFs. So I was confused later when they wrote Rose as deeply in love, and even reciprocated when 10.5 goes to be with her. The scene on the beach confounded me at the time. It was not how I understood that relationship. Maybe my wishful thinking filtered out all the signs. I really didn't think they'd ever let a Doctor fall in love with his companion. And I particularly couldn't comprehend 10 falling for Rose. I mean, seriously?

 

As much as 12 hasn't worked for me, it's been refreshing having an older Doctor for the lack of romance. Ten and Eleven were so young and charming it made it quite likely companions would be attracted. Not that I blame them, I had crushes on both. :)

Edited January 1, 2016 by snarktini

[Daisy]

So I am rewatching Doctor Who - and so I started with Rose and it really cracked me up. that you can sort of see some of the issues I really had with Rose rear its head in the last few episodes. When Lynda (with a Y!) tells the Doctor that she doesn't want to leave and maybe they can travel together and the Doctor goes, "oh sure!" and they take hands and a few scenes later, Rose is glaring at Lynda for existing in the Doctor's space. It's the same attitude that she has  with Sarah Jane in Series 2. 

It's kind of funny that it never even occurred to Rose that yes. the man is 900 years old, traveling through time and space and he might have had other companions.. He even says it more than once "he chose another stupid ape." But i figured it must have been in her mind - the other stupid apes were always male.

I also didn't really like how she treated Mickey at the end of Parting of the Ways when she flat out tells him there was nothing worth staying on Earth. that was such a cheap shot. and I just really hate how they leaned into the love story. I think it would/could have been stronger had it been more of a "Daughter"/"Father" love (or even just family in general, not romantic). Especially with all of the Pete stuff. 

But to give Rose a lot of credit - I did love her strength, and her adaptability in all the situations that she was in, and how caring she was to all she met. It didn't matter who or what you were, Rose always cared and that was wonderful I thought. 

Now - on to the Martha year. 

[Affogato]

I think maybe people are missing some of the character arc of the Doctors in the New Who. The ninth doctor was traumatized and alone, Rose's family was appealing to him, and Rose was appealing. But she was with Mickey. But together they were people outside himself he could care about, and he wanted family and connection. Then Ten, throughout his long run, looking for connection and family, too. Losing Rose as he does made him draw back, which made Martha leave, and he found a family with Donna's family. I don't think it is unreasonable he would love Rose, she was the first light he had seen, for some time, in a long darkness. They loved each other for who they were. Get to Eleven and he is more or less with his companions like a romance novel ...but, even with Thirteen there is the need for family and connection with others, and the loss of gallifrey still looms over the Doctor. 

Yeah, I see that he did fall in love with Rose and because that didn't work he held himself back from others. He was in no position to be a father figure at that point, he was totally emotionally adrift.

[Daisy]

On 10/11/2023 at 9:46 AM, Affogato said:

I think maybe people are missing some of the character arc of the Doctors in the New Who.

I don't think I am really.

 

On 10/11/2023 at 9:46 AM, Affogato said:

He was in no position to be a father figure at that point, he was totally emotionally adrift.

not by the time Rose got sent to Pete's World. that's all i mean. RTD wrote it as a love story. as evidenced by the last time we see Rose and how that ended  I just mean to me personally it would have been a lot stronger - if instead of leaning into romantic love it was a hard lean into familial love.  Rose's big emotional achilles heel was Pete. we see it in Father's Day, again in Age of Steel 2 parter, and in Army of Ghosts/Doomsday. She is hurt whenever Pete2 basically says she's nothing to him. that's why the end in Doomsday was so poignant. 

I just personally feel that if the love that Rose & Doctor had was more familial  than romantic - nothing changes in how much it hurts that the Doctor lost someone he truly cared about and her family. - and it doesn't really hurt Martha's development so much either (from a shipper's perspective - because you could actually have both. but again I'll talk about my feels on Martha vs Doctor on Martha's thread) because it's not year 3 lusting over the Doctor. 

 

All the bitterness and sadness that the Doctor had  can easily be stemmed from that he doesn't want to get close to another companion/being  because he just lost a daughter figure [who had taught him how to open up and love and trust again after losing everything that meant anything to him and maybe even potentially reminding him of Susan and his children] - which resonates a lot stronger overall to me personally then hamfisting in a potential girlfriend/pining for a lost love arc that ended up happening. 

but ultimately that's just my feelings because truly  I never was a big believer in the romantic angle from the Doctor's PoV at all - even taking in all his trauma.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Daisy
just wanted to neat things up. shouldn't post so close to bedtime lol

[Llywela]

I'm with @Daisy on this. It's not that we don't understand the emotional arc that was bolted onto the Doctor for external narrative reasons when the show was brought back, it's that this was a narrative choice we don't personally support. RTD wrote the Doctor-Rose relationship as a romance - specifically because he saw potential parallels with the Buffy-Angel relationship in BtVS and wanted to tap into a similar audience - but because it was the first Doctor-companion relationship of the revived show, framing it as a romance set an unfortunate precedent that the show has been struggling with ever since. And it also creates an unecessary divide between the new and classic versions of the show.

For me, the Doctor works best when he is written as a mentor, a catalyst for the companion's adventures, rather than as a romantic hero. And the relationships he builds with his companions are always stronger, for me, when he is drawn as a mentor/father figure rather than as a romantic partner in a relationship that can never, ever be equal in any way. Trying to force him into that role throws everything off-kilter.

But, mileage obviously varies on this point.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Llywela

[JustHereForFood]

Rose is a fascinating character for me, because I loved her in season 1 and then started to dislike her in season 2. I don't know if it is just because of the romance subplot, but it has to be at least in some part because of that. I didn't like how she became more jealous of the Doctor and how much their travelling together started to revolve around this "epic romance" and the melodrama it created. I get how a person can get a crush on the Doctor, especially someone so young as she was, but it shouldn't be everything. I prefer how Martha handled it.

[Daisy]

Just now, JustHereForFood said:

Rose is a fascinating character for me, because I loved her in season 1 and then started to dislike her in season 2.

the same - Rose in Season 1 was very much.... Dorothy from Wizard of Oz. - she 1000 percent wasn't in Kansas anymore but unlike Dorothy she loved the adventure, showed empathy and got a bit sidetracked with Peter on Father's day 

While Parting of the Ways was great i think it's what also pushed Rose into "unlikable" for me. I get that part of it was due to worry about the Doctor facing off Daleks alone, but the way she tells Jackie and Mickey that there was literally nothing for her on Earth and everything was about the Doctor really just made it like. "really?" 
 

6 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

I get how a person can get a crush on the Doctor, especially someone so young as she was, but it shouldn't be everything. I

pretty  much. like even Jackie said that Rose was making the Doctor be her whole world. the fact that when she was stuck on Pete's World and basically went "so?" when the Doctor said that both worlds would collapse [and then basically doubling down on it in Season 4], - it's really like unlike the other companions who always wondered about the Doctor (like Sarah Jane wondering how come he never came to visit her or anything). they never really made the Doctor their whole lives, where Rose did. 

I really feel like by doubling down on the romance - it hurt Rose's strength which was empathy and feeling. Where it was on massive display in season 1 - it was really in spurts in season 2. 

[JustHereForFood]

16 minutes ago, Daisy said:

While Parting of the Ways was great i think it's what also pushed Rose into "unlikable" for me. I get that part of it was due to worry about the Doctor facing off Daleks alone, but the way she tells Jackie and Mickey that there was literally nothing for her on Earth and everything was about the Doctor really just made it like. "really?" 

I didn't mind that. She couldn't imagine going back to her ordinary life after her time spent with the Doctor and I can totally understand that. OTOH I can see how Jackie and Mickey could be hurt by that, as it sounded like their ordinary lives amount to nothing - but I let that pass since she was under a lot of stress and probably wasn't able to phrase it differently.

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

I didn't mind that. She couldn't imagine going back to her ordinary life after her time spent with the Doctor and I can totally understand that. OTOH I can see how Jackie and Mickey could be hurt by that, as it sounded like their ordinary lives amount to nothing - but I let that pass since she was under a lot of stress and probably wasn't able to phrase it differently.

i get that. I do believe she does say something to Jackie about "how she didn't meant it like that." but it was doubling down on it with Mickey [and then getting all salty ticked off in Series 2 when Mickey has enough courage to travel with the Doctor. it all boils down into irksome even when i wanna write it off the first time as being stressed.

 

[admittedly i do tend to forget she is 19, and I doubt i was a tactful little miss then either so  hahaa]

[supposebly]

That is what I always find so interesting about Rose. They let her be a fairly typical mouthy 19year old who thought she knew better and looked down on her old life after having had all those adventures. And once the Doctor turned into David Tennant, I dare anyone not to at least develop a little crush on him, let alone an already impressed 19year old. Well, except Donna. 😉

My 19year old self was no better after having moved away to the big city and gone to university. I ditched my boyfriend within a year and barely visited my parents for months. And my new boyfriend was no Doctor!

[Affogato]

I guess I need to explain myself. I never saw Doctor Who as a child, and as an adult the only classic Who I watched episode by episode was the Third Doctor. I then moved away from regularly watching television, although I did watch the occasional rerun and so on. After the Fourth Doctor I did not see anything until New Who. Pertwee struck me as similar to John Steed. Steed was involved with Mrs Peel, but they were very discrete. The first doctor has a grandchild, so although he seems older now, he was a sexual creature (I always thought Susan was part human, but I may be wrong) if he had children. Ruth was involved with her companion. Capaldi was also older, but he had the longest relationship with River. What I'm saying is that I don't know that the doctors have ever been portrayed as being not sexual beings, although it is a children's show and that part of their makeup is usually not emphasized? 

Anyway, I thought that Doctor was reasonably looking for the energy and optimism that a young being like Rose could contribute, as well as the connection she offered. I mean, by Martha he had realized it probably wasn't the best idea for him and for Rose, but he was able to give Rose a hand.  Rose, for her part, probably was looking for an older man to give her direction, which happens. 

Just saying the relationship made sense to me. Personally I liked the Donna/Doctor relationship which was platonic but also more a relationship of equals, rather than mentor or father-daughter.

[Daisy]

no that's fair. I didn't see old Doctor Who either when I was watching New Who. 
Again ultimately - I just feel the story would have been stronger if they really leaned into the father/daughter (for what I said. that was what was missing in Rose's life. not another boyfriend/lover thing). just an opinion at the end of the day. could have looked like a Ninja Turtle lol. i still believe the love story should have been a father/daughter one not a lovers separated one.