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S05.E07: Ace Chemicals

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Gordon races to uncover the criminal element threatening to end talks of Gotham's reunification with the mainland. A very much alive Jeremiah returns and organizes a twisted recreation of the murder of Bruce's parents with the help of Jervis Tetch aka Mad Hatter.

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Original air date: 2/21/19

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. . . and Jeremiah is dead. Brain dead. Really, really dead. He ain't coming back anytime soon. I mean, if someone falls into a vat of toxic chemicals, it's basically curtains for them, right?

Sarcasm aside, I'm really going to miss this show. Great balance of insanity and poignancy. Yeah, Jeremiah tries to mindfuck Bruce through half of the episode . . . but then we got the hug with Alfred. Looks like Lee and Jim might be back together. Or maybe Jim's destined to have two kids because birth control is not readily available in Gotham City. I mean immediately within reach. And I almost feel bad for Barbara as everyone busted her chops over the bun in the oven. Of course Ed would know immediately. She was glowing!

And Oswald and Ed are back together! What's a few murder attempts between them? I also like the idea of Barbara being willing to put up with the asshole that killed her bestie just to get out of Gotham. And Ed has a plan! Of course it's a submarine. Of course it needs to be built.

How many episodes are left? Three? Six?

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Not my favorite episode this season.   In all honesty I am over Bruce angst.   

Jim does love his women mean and crazy doesn't he.   I loved the scenes between Lee and Barbara.  Barbara, Nygma and, Penguin were great too.  

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I loved everything about this episode. 

Of course Ed, Pengy, and Barbara are going to build a submarine to escape Gotham. And of course Ed immediately figured out she’s pregnant. I’d have been disappointed if he hadn’t. 

Jim kept the Joker Gas from getting into the air but now it’s in the water. Win some lose some. 

Jeremiah went into the vat! 

I love it when the show does pre-Batman bits. “There’s no brain activity. He’s no longer a threat.” You’re adorable Bruce. 

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Even by this shows standards, Jeremiahs whole scheme to get Bruce to be obsessed with him, including actually acting in his own old timie Zorro movie, just to complete the melodrama, is pretty impressively over the top. AND he finally gets his official origin story, getting dumped into a vat of chemicals. "Dont worry Selina, he wont be a threat anymore. He certainly wont come back even worse than before, and we most certainly wont be fighting each other for the next several decades! No way!"

It really was sweet though when he Bruce hugged Alfred, and when Selina actually got involved and helped save Lee and Jim, the way she didnt help the Wayne's. Its a nice bit of symmetry. Oh Selina, you softie!

Of course if Babs, Penguin, and Ed were gonna escape Gotham, it would be through a submarine. I was thinking it would have to be submarine, or a giant zeppelin with a penguin printed on it. And I love that Ed can tell right away that Babs is pregnant. Its obvious, she is just glowing!

Jim sure can pick um, huh? And Lee is probably the most normal person he has ever hooked up with! I am actually excited that Lee and Jim might be getting back together, and the scene between Babs and Lee was great as well. Oh, that kids borthdays are gonna be super weird. 

Also cool seeing The Mad Hatter again, he is one of my favorite reoccurring crazies. And Jim and Lee messing with him was a nice reminder of what a good team they can make.

Edited by tennisgurl
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Tetch sighting!  I see he is as crazy as always.  I think the only past villains we haven't seen yet are Freeze and Firefly, but I'm sure they'll be back eventually.

I do love that we're just at the point where Lee says "You've tried to kill me twice" to Babs, but she says it less like she was in mortal danger back then, but more like Babs kept taking the best chair in the house.  Because, really, who hasn't tried to kill someone at this point in the game?  Just a normal thing in the land of Gotham!  And, of course, this all leading to Lee being Babs' doctor.  Classic Gotham!

Jeremiah is finally dea.... HA HA HA!  Of course, he isn't.  If Bruce and Selina were smart, they'd just stab stab him and call it a night, instead of leaving him "braindead."  Really, with Hugo Strange out and about, if you want to get rid of someone for good, you should just burn the body.  And even then, dump the ashes in the bottom of the river, because Strange could still probably do something with those!

With respect to Jim and his bouncing back and forth between girlfriends, the true romantic bond on this show will always be between Oswald and Nygma.  They just can't quit each other!

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I don't really want to talk about this episode specifically, because it was a waste of time. I mean, we've got five episodes to go and no coherent story...or any real story at all.

I think back to "Penguin, Our Hero" that teased an episode of Bruce and Selina teaming up and kicking ass (which didn't happen) and I think about how I would have written this series. A series of Bruce and Selina kicking ass and taking names, all while they slowly drift apart...I'm sold.

Anyway, my origin would have involved this:

It still starts with Thomas and Martha getting shot, but they're shot by a gender-flipped Joker...let's name her Trinity, which is the name a Joker/Lolita type character I'm working on for my own stories.

Anyway, Trinity kills Thomas and Martha in a robbery that went bad. She would have killed Bruce too but Selina's right there to save him, so Trinity gets away. Bruce and Selina help Jim find and eventually arrest Trinity, and Bruce meets her in jail. He instantly falls in love with her, but he fights it off, as best as he can. He never does shake it off, so when Trinity comes back and strikes again, Bruce steadfastly refuses to kill her, simply because he loves her. Meanwhile, Bruce and Selina also develop feelings for each other, but slowly drift apart because Selina sees the logic in killing the Joker and Bruce refuses to...all because love makes him blind to it.

I had other things I would have incorporated into the story- I'm a big Soul Calibur fan, so the thought of Bruce getting intertwined in the "Battle of the Two Swords" because of Ra's al-Ghul would have been a fun theme to explore too, and Hugo Strange being the one responsible for the Ninja Turtles (and Donatello later helping him with his research)...lots of weird stuff in my head.

Weird stuff I may or may not write down one day...we'll see.

I don't know how interesting this is to anyone, but it's what I thought about watching this episode, since this episode was all about redoing The Pilot, and I'm not at a loss for how I would have done this show differently. I'm in this until the end, but it still doesn't change this series has a lot of missed opportunities.

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Jim & Lee. Oh snooze. Bleh. Where's my Ed and Lee reunion? I've always loved this batshit crazy show and easily forgave its flaws but good god I'm bored with this last season. I'm only really interested in Penguin and Riddler anymore so here's hoping they stay partnered up till the end.

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2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

when Selina actually got involved and helped save Lee and Jim, the way she didnt help the Wayne's.

Am I the only one bothered by this narrative? How exactly was Selina supposed to have helped the Wayne's? She was a child who stumbled into a murder scene unknowningly. Why is the show framing the Waynes' death as something Selina should feel guilty for?

Also do the actors hate each other or something? That last scene was begging to end with a kiss and it was just cut away.

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20 minutes ago, ursula said:

Am I the only one bothered by this narrative? How exactly was Selina supposed to have helped the Wayne's?

I dont think the show blames her for not doing anything (Bruce said the same thing about her just being a kid and she couldn't have done anything) I think that Selina blames herself for not doing anything. It doesent come up a whole lot, but she has definitely angsted about it before, even back in season one when Bruce and Selina had just met, and just a few episodes ago she said it was a reason why she was a bad, selfish person, even though Bruce disagreed. I think it was a moment she needed to show herself she wasnt a bad, irredeemable person. 

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Just a normal thing in the land of Gotham!  And, of course, this all leading to Lee being Babs' doctor.  Classic Gotham!

I mean, if you stopped talking to everyone in Gotham has has tried to kill you, your holiday card list would be about two people long! Thats just how people roll in Gotham! "I mean, my dentist did use laughing gas to get me to commit crimes in his name while he danced around wearing a tooth costume and stabbing people with toothbrushes during my last appointment, but...he is still the best dentist in town! I cant stop seeing him over a little something like that!"

Edited by tennisgurl
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Everyone in this town must just view Oswald as a lovable little scamp, because everyone is always pointing guns in his face and holding knives to his throat before being all, “Aw, I can’t kill you!”

But as with the scene with Ed highlighted, there are a couple plot holes that are bothering me. I don’t know why Ed went back to blaming Oswald for the chip in his head when it seems clear he knew nothing about it, but...what did happen there? He told Strange to “fix” Ed and Lee, Strange had his own agenda with Walker/Bane, so...Oswald just walked away after saying “fix them” and then never bothered to check back? Did Strange tell him, “They’re alive, and just walked out” and that was enough for Oswald?   It would make way more sense if Strange told Oswald “Tried to revive them, but couldn’t. Sorry” while he pocketed the money from Walker. Oswald thinks his friend is dead, which is why he names his dog after him and never bothers looking for him. But that doesn’t seem to be what happened since Oswald didn’t seem surprised to see Ed alive when he showed up at City Hall. I suppose Oswald could be in cahoots with Walker, but that doesn’t make sense as he has not benefited from her actions at all. This is just a weird, glaring plot hole that bothers me every time they bring it up.

And on a related note, everyone is just going to pretend Lee wasn’t hooking up with Ed? (With her kinda giving the side-eye to Jim for donking Barbara, I couldn't believe no one was like, "Take a seat, Lee. Not that long ago you were hooking up with THE RIDDLER"). And in between make out sessions they were robbing banks? Did Lee just lose all that “darkness” she loved so much and now she’s back to “good” Lee with no trace of the Queen of the Narrows? I mean, I kinda hated that whole storyline so I’m not unhappy that they are sweeping it away ‘cause it was dumb (like Lee lamenting the Narrows going to hell after all the “work” she did there to improve it, when the “improvements” largely consisted of her making speeches, robbing banks, and publicly punishing her enemies for the entertainment of the masses) but it’s weird that they just aren’t acknowledging what happened.  That should be a seriously weird chapter of Lee’s life she should be reconciling. 

Jim and Lee? Meh. I’m not invested either way. But it feels like we are still spending too much time with Jim Gordon. There are five episodes left. It really feels like we should be focusing more on the future Batman now. Good start tonight with setting up the on-going Batman/Joker dynamic, but it still feels like we should be seeing more of Bruce. And what is going to lead him to dressing like a bat and working as a vigilante. What is going to make him say, “You know what? The police do NOT have this. I have to do more than just pop over to the GCPD HQ and offer my help to Jim Gordon. I have to take matters into my own hands”?

I really hope they shift more focus to Bruce. And let Oswald and Ed work together in peace for a while. They are entertaining together and they were clearly having fun this episode (especially Oswald -  being a total dick to Alfred, and his sourpuss expression of disappointment when his minion swam into a mine).

Edited by Kostgard
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Lee slapping Jim in the face and then kissing him was such a cliche.  The only thing that would have been worse, is if they had expressed their feelings toward each other while being tied up.

Surely Ed can come up with a counter agent which will detoxify the river.

When Selina and Oswald were talking and observing the boats getting blown up by the mines along with one of the survivors swimming into a mine, their whole interaction was kind of humorous. 

Edited by icemiser69
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Yeah the show has kinda just dropped the whole Lee/Ed thing hasn’t it?

i am actually hoping the show at least acknowledges the reason Barbara is so intent on keeping her baby is that she had such awful parents she wants to be better fir her baby which actually explains why she didn’t kill Oswald.

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While I wish we hadn't the later scene at the hospital, I really thought this was a great conclusion to the Joker origin story we've had.

Jeremiah and Bruce had the strongest scenes of the episode and the use of Selina, Alfred, Ecco, Jervis, Jim and Leslie was pretty well done too. Saying that, this needs to be the last appearance of Jeremiah until the series finale.

Barbara teaming up with Oswald and Edward to get out of Gotham will inevitably fail but it should be a lot of fun to watch nonetheless. I did like Barbara's scenes with Selina, Leslie and Jim as well this week.

We do need to get back to the Bane plot but I guess that'll be put on hold for some more rogue members next week though, 9/10

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Since when is Lee all normal doctor again with a 'normal' relationship with Jim? She was leading the Narrows just last season! "All I did to make the Narrows better was for nothing.' - what did Lee do to make them better? She stole money and gave it to them and gave some speeches but that's about it right?

Bringing back his parents and killing them again is probably the cruelest thing the Joker has ever done to Bruce even in the comics - and that's saying something!

Jeremiah skedaddled pretty past when Bruce lunged at him!

Okay at this point I'm saying that Jeremiah is completely in love with Bruce in the most twisted, crazed way ever 'I just want to be connected to you!'

I got chills when I first saw 'Ace Chemicals'

'Jim Gordon and the woman he told me to kill!' - now that was funny!

I can't believe they destroyed Wayne Manor!

Mad Hatter is looking very comic Mad Hatter now

The whole 'if Bruce hadn't been afraid and asked to leave the theatre maybe his parents wouldn't have been killed' guilt thing doesn't really work in this show because we know Bruce's parents were killed by a hitman who would have killed them no matter what.

'Why not kill the man you see as your second father figure?' - uh I'm pretty sure that's Alfred, not Jim

'You need me' You mean nothing to me' - I was starting to get a Lego Batman vibe here

Wow Riddler just came in randomly at the end

It's season 5 and I STILL don't care about Jim's love life. And Lee you don't have any place to judge Jim on bonking Barbara when you were hooking up with Riddler five seconds ago!

Penguin's face when Ed said Barbara is glowing will keep me laughing for days! Robin Lord Taylor is just the best

I guess this new, scarred version of Jeremiah will be the actual Joker? 

We're seven episodes in and Bruce is nowhere closer to being Batman than he was at the start of the season - that's not good. I remember when they said this season would be focused on that - what a fool I was!

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5 minutes ago, superloislane said:

'Why not kill the man you see as your second father figure?' - uh I'm pretty sure that's Alfred, not Jim

I liked that because it underscores how Jeremiah doesn't actually know Bruce as well as he thinks he does. 

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On 2/21/2019 at 10:17 PM, tennisgurl said:

Jim sure can pick um, huh? And Lee is probably the most normal person he has ever hooked up with! I am actually excited that Lee and Jim might be getting back together, and the scene between Babs and Lee was great as well. Oh, that kids borthdays are gonna be super weird

Nah, Valerie Vale (aka the one Mad Hatter actually shot) has to be the most normal one, since she never turned into a serial killer or a crime lord and seemingly had the good sense to get the hell out of Gotham or at least out of the orbit of Jim and the League of Evil Exes.

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7 hours ago, superloislane said:

'Why not kill the man you see as your second father figure?' - uh I'm pretty sure that's Alfred, not Jim 

Jim is at least legitimately important to Bruce, the funniest part of the episode was Jeremiah calling Lee Bruce's "dear, dear, dear, friend".

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12 hours ago, superloislane said:

It's season 5 and I STILL don't care about Jim's love life. And Lee you don't have any place to judge Jim on bonking Barbara when you were hooking up with Riddler five seconds ago!

If the Riddler only lasted five seconds, no wonder Lee went back to Jim.

For some reason, Lee has lost her hotness from when she was in the Narrows.  Something seems off about her, I don't what it is.

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There must be an extra nuclear reactor laying around that Nygma can use for the sub...and an extra Wayne Technologies SONAR array....and...... 

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I really enjoyed the episode, especially the Bruce/Jeremiah plot.  But the one thing that bugs me is the continuous plot armor around Penguin.  No fewer than three characters who want Penguin dead (Selina, Nygma, and Barb) had Penguin at their mercy in this episode and let him live.  We all get that Penguin can't die, so why keep putting him in spots where the people who want him dead have the opportunity but don't pull the trigger?  It just makes them look stupid.

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13 hours ago, paigow said:

There must be an extra nuclear reactor laying around that Nygma can use for the sub...and an extra Wayne Technologies SONAR array....and...... 

Yeah, I was wondering where Ed was going to get the parts to build the sonar Oswald mentioned. 

10 hours ago, Dobian said:

I really enjoyed the episode, especially the Bruce/Jeremiah plot.  But the one thing that bugs me is the continuous plot armor around Penguin.  No fewer than three characters who want Penguin dead (Selina, Nygma, and Barb) had Penguin at their mercy in this episode and let him live.  We all get that Penguin can't die, so why keep putting him in spots where the people who want him dead have the opportunity but don't pull the trigger?  It just makes them look stupid.

Agree, which is why I’m waiting for people to just ruffle his hair and chuckle every time they try to “kill” him.

I thought they had dropped Barbara wanting to kill him, so I was disappointed when it came back and when Selina jumped on board. Guys, she killed his mother. And then she put him in a kill or be killed situation, so he killed her. By Gotham logic, he’s totally justified. Walk away. Give these characters something else to do.

Same with Ed this episode. Having him point a gun at Oswald and blame him for the chip in his head made no sense because he told Ed a couple episodes ago he had nothing to do with that, and Ed seemed to believe him. So why go back to that well? You could still have a scene where Oswald has to talk Ed into working with him just by having Ed be all, “Considering our history, I’m not interested in working with you” or “Thanks for trying to hand me off the to cops right after you said you’d protect me, dick. Now piss off.” Unless they are trying to telegraph that Oswald actually did have something to do with the chipping, there’s no point.

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On 2/23/2019 at 9:10 AM, icemiser69 said:

If the Riddler only lasted five seconds, no wonder Lee went back to Jim.

5 seconds Riddler, 5 seconds Nygma etc.....

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On 2/21/2019 at 10:25 PM, Kostgard said:

Did Lee just lose all that “darkness” she loved so much and now she’s back to “good” Lee with no trace of the Queen of the Narrows? I mean, I kinda hated that whole storyline so I’m not unhappy that they are sweeping it away ‘cause it was dumb (like Lee lamenting the Narrows going to hell after all the “work” she did there to improve it, when the “improvements” largely consisted of her making speeches, robbing banks, and publicly punishing her enemies for the entertainment of the masses) but it’s weird that they just aren’t acknowledging what happened.  That should be a seriously weird chapter of Lee’s life she should be reconciling. 

On 2/22/2019 at 5:20 PM, superloislane said:

Since when is Lee all normal doctor again with a 'normal' relationship with Jim? She was leading the Narrows just last season! "

That struck me most about this episode.  Lee was written and acted like the last season and a half never happened (ever since Mario was killed).  She felt so out of place in the Narrows.  I hated the storyline too but the lack of transition is jarring.

This episode was middling, mostly a showcase for Crazy Jeremiah.  There was plenty of green liquid left at Ace Chemicals to fill a couple hundred more rockets, so why wasn't that being done?  

Most of the characters are just spinning their wheels.  I too am sick of everyone confronting Penguin and not killing him.  I get the show is about Jim but I'm not sure where else he can go in terms of character development.  I'm not sure he has had any for years.  As said above, what's more disappointing is the lack of any real movement or development for Bruce either.  

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On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 2:16 AM, Lantern7 said:

. . . and Jeremiah is dead. Brain dead. Really, really dead. He ain't coming back anytime soon. I mean, if someone falls into a vat of toxic chemicals, it's basically curtains for them, right?

Sarcasm aside, I'm really going to miss this show. Great balance of insanity and poignancy. Yeah, Jeremiah tries to mindfuck Bruce through half of the episode . . . but then we got the hug with Alfred. Looks like Lee and Jim might be back together. Or maybe Jim's destined to have two kids because birth control is not readily available in Gotham City. I mean immediately within reach. And I almost feel bad for Barbara as everyone busted her chops over the bun in the oven. Of course Ed would know immediately. She was glowing!

And Oswald and Ed are back together! What's a few murder attempts between them? I also like the idea of Barbara being willing to put up with the asshole that killed her bestie just to get out of Gotham. And Ed has a plan! Of course it's a submarine. Of course it needs to be built.

How many episodes are left? Three? Six?

It's reasonable enough, she loved Tabby but her baby has to come first. 

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 3:17 AM, tennisgurl said:

Even by this shows standards, Jeremiahs whole scheme to get Bruce to be obsessed with him, including actually acting in his own old timie Zorro movie, just to complete the melodrama, is pretty impressively over the top. AND he finally gets his official origin story, getting dumped into a vat of chemicals. "Dont worry Selina, he wont be a threat anymore. He certainly wont come back even worse than before, and we most certainly wont be fighting each other for the next several decades! No way!"

It really was sweet though when he Bruce hugged Alfred, and when Selina actually got involved and helped save Lee and Jim, the way she didnt help the Wayne's. Its a nice bit of symmetry. Oh Selina, you softie!

Of course if Babs, Penguin, and Ed were gonna escape Gotham, it would be through a submarine. I was thinking it would have to be submarine, or a giant zeppelin with a penguin printed on it. And I love that Ed can tell right away that Babs is pregnant. Its obvious, she is just glowing!

Jim sure can pick um, huh? And Lee is probably the most normal person he has ever hooked up with! I am actually excited that Lee and Jim might be getting back together, and the scene between Babs and Lee was great as well. Oh, that kids borthdays are gonna be super weird. 

Also cool seeing The Mad Hatter again, he is one of my favorite reoccurring crazies. And Jim and Lee messing with him was a nice reminder of what a good team they can make.

I never bought that Selina didn't care, that was just an act for Bruce's sake. 

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On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 4:42 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Tetch sighting!  I see he is as crazy as always.  I think the only past villains we haven't seen yet are Freeze and Firefly, but I'm sure they'll be back eventually.

I do love that we're just at the point where Lee says "You've tried to kill me twice" to Babs, but she says it less like she was in mortal danger back then, but more like Babs kept taking the best chair in the house.  Because, really, who hasn't tried to kill someone at this point in the game?  Just a normal thing in the land of Gotham!  And, of course, this all leading to Lee being Babs' doctor.  Classic Gotham!

Jeremiah is finally dea.... HA HA HA!  Of course, he isn't.  If Bruce and Selina were smart, they'd just stab stab him and call it a night, instead of leaving him "braindead."  Really, with Hugo Strange out and about, if you want to get rid of someone for good, you should just burn the body.  And even then, dump the ashes in the bottom of the river, because Strange could still probably do something with those!

With respect to Jim and his bouncing back and forth between girlfriends, the true romantic bond on this show will always be between Oswald and Nygma.  They just can't quit each other!

What about Bruce/Selina?

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On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 4:46 AM, Danielg342 said:

I don't really want to talk about this episode specifically, because it was a waste of time. I mean, we've got five episodes to go and no coherent story...or any real story at all.

I think back to "Penguin, Our Hero" that teased an episode of Bruce and Selina teaming up and kicking ass (which didn't happen) and I think about how I would have written this series. A series of Bruce and Selina kicking ass and taking names, all while they slowly drift apart...I'm sold.

Anyway, my origin would have involved this:

It still starts with Thomas and Martha getting shot, but they're shot by a gender-flipped Joker...let's name her Trinity, which is the name a Joker/Lolita type character I'm working on for my own stories.

Anyway, Trinity kills Thomas and Martha in a robbery that went bad. She would have killed Bruce too but Selina's right there to save him, so Trinity gets away. Bruce and Selina help Jim find and eventually arrest Trinity, and Bruce meets her in jail. He instantly falls in love with her, but he fights it off, as best as he can. He never does shake it off, so when Trinity comes back and strikes again, Bruce steadfastly refuses to kill her, simply because he loves her. Meanwhile, Bruce and Selina also develop feelings for each other, but slowly drift apart because Selina sees the logic in killing the Joker and Bruce refuses to...all because love makes him blind to it.

I had other things I would have incorporated into the story- I'm a big Soul Calibur fan, so the thought of Bruce getting intertwined in the "Battle of the Two Swords" because of Ra's al-Ghul would have been a fun theme to explore too, and Hugo Strange being the one responsible for the Ninja Turtles (and Donatello later helping him with his research)...lots of weird stuff in my head.

Weird stuff I may or may not write down one day...we'll see.

I don't know how interesting this is to anyone, but it's what I thought about watching this episode, since this episode was all about redoing The Pilot, and I'm not at a loss for how I would have done this show differently. I'm in this until the end, but it still doesn't change this series has a lot of missed opportunities.

So have we ditched the whole Red Hood angle?

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 5:58 AM, ursula said:

Am I the only one bothered by this narrative? How exactly was Selina supposed to have helped the Wayne's? She was a child who stumbled into a murder scene unknowningly. Why is the show framing the Waynes' death as something Selina should feel guilty for?

Also do the actors hate each other or something? That last scene was begging to end with a kiss and it was just cut away.

You know what they say about shows giving us what we need rather than want?

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On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 6:25 AM, Kostgard said:

Everyone in this town must just view Oswald as a lovable little scamp, because everyone is always pointing guns in his face and holding knives to his throat before being all, “Aw, I can’t kill you!”

But as with the scene with Ed highlighted, there are a couple plot holes that are bothering me. I don’t know why Ed went back to blaming Oswald for the chip in his head when it seems clear he knew nothing about it, but...what did happen there? He told Strange to “fix” Ed and Lee, Strange had his own agenda with Walker/Bane, so...Oswald just walked away after saying “fix them” and then never bothered to check back? Did Strange tell him, “They’re alive, and just walked out” and that was enough for Oswald?   It would make way more sense if Strange told Oswald “Tried to revive them, but couldn’t. Sorry” while he pocketed the money from Walker. Oswald thinks his friend is dead, which is why he names his dog after him and never bothers looking for him. But that doesn’t seem to be what happened since Oswald didn’t seem surprised to see Ed alive when he showed up at City Hall. I suppose Oswald could be in cahoots with Walker, but that doesn’t make sense as he has not benefited from her actions at all. This is just a weird, glaring plot hole that bothers me every time they bring it up.

And on a related note, everyone is just going to pretend Lee wasn’t hooking up with Ed? (With her kinda giving the side-eye to Jim for donking Barbara, I couldn't believe no one was like, "Take a seat, Lee. Not that long ago you were hooking up with THE RIDDLER"). And in between make out sessions they were robbing banks? Did Lee just lose all that “darkness” she loved so much and now she’s back to “good” Lee with no trace of the Queen of the Narrows? I mean, I kinda hated that whole storyline so I’m not unhappy that they are sweeping it away ‘cause it was dumb (like Lee lamenting the Narrows going to hell after all the “work” she did there to improve it, when the “improvements” largely consisted of her making speeches, robbing banks, and publicly punishing her enemies for the entertainment of the masses) but it’s weird that they just aren’t acknowledging what happened.  That should be a seriously weird chapter of Lee’s life she should be reconciling. 

Jim and Lee? Meh. I’m not invested either way. But it feels like we are still spending too much time with Jim Gordon. There are five episodes left. It really feels like we should be focusing more on the future Batman now. Good start tonight with setting up the on-going Batman/Joker dynamic, but it still feels like we should be seeing more of Bruce. And what is going to lead him to dressing like a bat and working as a vigilante. What is going to make him say, “You know what? The police do NOT have this. I have to do more than just pop over to the GCPD HQ and offer my help to Jim Gordon. I have to take matters into my own hands”?

I really hope they shift more focus to Bruce. And let Oswald and Ed work together in peace for a while. They are entertaining together and they were clearly having fun this episode (especially Oswald -  being a total dick to Alfred, and his sourpuss expression of disappointment when his minion swam into a mine).

To be fair Ossie is the king of talking his way out of tough spots?

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On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 1:00 PM, icemiser69 said:

Lee slapping Jim in the face and then kissing him was such a cliche.  The only thing that would have been worse, is if they had expressed their feelings toward each other while being tied up.

Surely Ed can come up with a counter agent which will detoxify the river.

When Selina and Oswald were talking and observing the boats getting blown up by the mines along with one of the survivors swimming into a mine, their whole interaction was kind of humorous. 

Could have been worse, could have been Jim slapping her and then she kisses him? But not in the MeToo era I guess?

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 1:20 AM, superloislane said:

Since when is Lee all normal doctor again with a 'normal' relationship with Jim? She was leading the Narrows just last season! "All I did to make the Narrows better was for nothing.' - what did Lee do to make them better? She stole money and gave it to them and gave some speeches but that's about it right?

Bringing back his parents and killing them again is probably the cruelest thing the Joker has ever done to Bruce even in the comics - and that's saying something!

Jeremiah skedaddled pretty past when Bruce lunged at him!

Okay at this point I'm saying that Jeremiah is completely in love with Bruce in the most twisted, crazed way ever 'I just want to be connected to you!'

I got chills when I first saw 'Ace Chemicals'

'Jim Gordon and the woman he told me to kill!' - now that was funny!

I can't believe they destroyed Wayne Manor!

Mad Hatter is looking very comic Mad Hatter now

The whole 'if Bruce hadn't been afraid and asked to leave the theatre maybe his parents wouldn't have been killed' guilt thing doesn't really work in this show because we know Bruce's parents were killed by a hitman who would have killed them no matter what.

'Why not kill the man you see as your second father figure?' - uh I'm pretty sure that's Alfred, not Jim

'You need me' You mean nothing to me' - I was starting to get a Lego Batman vibe here

Wow Riddler just came in randomly at the end

It's season 5 and I STILL don't care about Jim's love life. And Lee you don't have any place to judge Jim on bonking Barbara when you were hooking up with Riddler five seconds ago!

Penguin's face when Ed said Barbara is glowing will keep me laughing for days! Robin Lord Taylor is just the best

I guess this new, scarred version of Jeremiah will be the actual Joker? 

We're seven episodes in and Bruce is nowhere closer to being Batman than he was at the start of the season - that's not good. I remember when they said this season would be focused on that - what a fool I was!

Yeah, I thought that too but you're looking for logic in the actions of the insane?

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On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 3:10 PM, paigow said:

There must be an extra nuclear reactor laying around that Nygma can use for the sub...and an extra Wayne Technologies SONAR array....and...... 

Was I the only one reminded of The Young Ones?

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On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:07 AM, Kostgard said:

Yeah, I was wondering where Ed was going to get the parts to build the sonar Oswald mentioned. 

Agree, which is why I’m waiting for people to just ruffle his hair and chuckle every time they try to “kill” him.

I thought they had dropped Barbara wanting to kill him, so I was disappointed when it came back and when Selina jumped on board. Guys, she killed his mother. And then she put him in a kill or be killed situation, so he killed her. By Gotham logic, he’s totally justified. Walk away. Give these characters something else to do.

Same with Ed this episode. Having him point a gun at Oswald and blame him for the chip in his head made no sense because he told Ed a couple episodes ago he had nothing to do with that, and Ed seemed to believe him. So why go back to that well? You could still have a scene where Oswald has to talk Ed into working with him just by having Ed be all, “Considering our history, I’m not interested in working with you” or “Thanks for trying to hand me off the to cops right after you said you’d protect me, dick. Now piss off.” Unless they are trying to telegraph that Oswald actually did have something to do with the chipping, there’s no point.

Wouldn't it be easier to repair the tunnel? Although I want it to look like the sub in the 1966 Batman movie. 

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1.  Bruce got scared over the Mark of Zorro? Which part exactly? A film about a hero in a cape and mask who strikes fear into his enemies? You have to admit Jerimiah is good in the costume, very flamboyant. 

2. If I was Jim I'd have stuck two in Tetch's head the moment I saw him! I thought he would have developed some immunity to hypnotism by now?

3. I love Barbara's lesbian fantasy of her and Selina setting up rich somewhere outside Gotham and raising Jim's baby together, very Calamity Jane. If it's a girl they could even call her Tabitha

4.  Speaking of whom yay! Knew Selina really did care for Tabby

5.  Interesting watching Barbara unable to kill because of her child, very Darla in Angel. 

6.  Nice shout out to Zsaz with the Z's on the chest, I think that's what we were all thinking. Also here's a toxic chemical factory and no Scarecrow? 

7.  Gotham is so full of crazies I'm almost sympathetic to the government for wanting it to be sealed off.  

8.  Love how Jerimiah is impressed with Alfred's sandwich, very Winston Wolf. 

9.  Oh for Jim to have held up one of the fake moustaches from the dead 'Chessmen' (what a name for a gang but TIG!) in front of his face at an angle that made it look like it was his.  

10.  Ed's escape plan is the normal Gotham madness. I wonder if they'll kidnap Lucius to work on it? 

11.  Selina to the rescue! Although they could have built if up better, they telegraphed it too much. 

12. The hospital scene seemed very unnecessary, couldn't we just have Echo retrieve him from the sewer vent?

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1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

So have we ditched the whole Red Hood angle?

I'm not exactly quite sure I understand what you mean by this question.

For me, I had to tackle the problem of why Bruce would feel the need not to kill The Joker. I figure one way to do that is by making them erstwhile lovers, or at least friends. It would explain why Bruce would hesitate killing the one person logic tells him he should- because the two have a deep bond.

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"We've had our differences" "You tried to kill me!" So, fairly minor ones, in Gotham terms...
And Barbara actually had a point about looking after little Babs.

Bruce - ever feel you're walking into a trap!?
Though that was a suitably Joker-esque plan (love the little smilies on the bomb!)
Wayne Manor gets blown up so much these days...

Can somebody explain why the government is stopping people leaving Gotham? I can accept washing their hands of them and going, "Yeah, we'll get right on that..." but they're actually killing people who try to flee? Maybe detain anyone who tries to leave, but the US government just straight up murders them? How exactly does it attempt to justify that?

"You don't know her [Barbara] like I do..." Lee. In so many ways!

Probably best not to fish in the Hudson River for a while...

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 2:16 AM, Lantern7 said:

. . . and Jeremiah is dead. Brain dead. Really, really dead. He ain't coming back anytime soon. I mean, if someone falls into a vat of toxic chemicals, it's basically curtains for them, right?

You're totally right. I'd bet any money on that!

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 6:18 AM, tennisgurl said:

I mean, if you stopped talking to everyone in Gotham who has tried to kill you, your holiday card list would be about two people long! That's just how people roll in Gotham!

There must be shops in Gotham that sell "Sorry I tried to murder you! Friends?" cards & gifts by now. Not sure what a fitting gift basket for that would be.

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 1:20 AM, superloislane said:

Okay at this point I'm saying that Jeremiah is completely in love with Bruce in the most twisted, crazed way ever 'I just want to be connected to you!'

That's pretty close to being canon at this point ("You complete me!" The Joker, The Dark Knight). And as for Fanfic...

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