S01.E15: The Rock

[TaurusRose]

On 2/15/2019 at 5:46 PM, readster said:

Even if Regina is starting to admit, she didn't want kids because of her uncle molesting and her own mother's problems she still doesn't want to face or her dad just giving up and walking. 

 

When did she admit that?

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

On 2/15/2019 at 2:46 PM, readster said:

Even if Regina is starting to admit, she didn't want kids because of her uncle molesting and her own mother's problems she still doesn't want to face or her dad just giving up and walking. 

 

When did she admit that?

I don’t think she has. I also don’t think the show intended for her not wanting kids to be related to being molested. She was 12 when her uncle molested her but I think she said she was younger than that when she knew she didn’t want kids. 

[izabella]

8 hours ago, debraran said:

They aren't supposed to be a couple in public anyway and it just seemed mean after Katherine helped her too. She didn't call her, she called Eddie. I hope she doesn't help again.

OMG, that call was all about reminding Eddie where his attention really should be - on Delilah. 

Katherine went way above and beyond for Delilah by helping her figure out her financial situation, the $18M debt, and how to quickly unload those buildings so that Delilah wouldn't end up homeless with her kids on the street.  WAY above and beyond.  So when Delilah finds out Katherine was in a car crash, went to the hospital, and was in pain, I would expect her to call Katherine to talk to her.  She should feel grateful for Katherine's help, and for the very phone she can pay for now that she's not in $18M debt, the very car she is still driving and the car seat she just installed.  Delilah should feel worried for Katherine's emotional and physical health after a big car accident, but Delilah could not be bothered to call her. 

4 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I really wonder...does Delilah have NPD or is Nash just that absolutely clueless?  I mean, she is pretty much a textbook case yet STILL she is portrayed in a way that I think the show wants us to sympathize with her.  Which, by the way, doesn't work.  It only makes me despise her more AND feel like the show is trying to gaslight me.

I really hope that Nash is trying to portray NPD!  Delilah is one of the most insufferable characters I've seen in a long time, so if we are supposed to be as charmed by her helpless damsel in distress persona as Gary and the rest, Nash has failed miserably. 

I really, really hope there is a day when Maggie will say something about Delilah's NPD in front of the friends, in a matter of fact way, like, "Looks like Delilah's NPD is really dialed up today. Let's have a drink before we go over there...." and the friends are speechless...and then Maggie says, "What?  You mean you don't know she has NPD?  It's so obvious!"

Edited February 17, 2019 by izabella

[debraran]

26 minutes ago, Dani said:

I don’t think she has. I also don’t think the show intended for her not wanting kids to be related to being molested. She was 12 when her uncle molested her but I think she said she was younger than that when she knew she didn’t want kids. 

I hope not, let one show have a woman just not want a baby. Rome seemed so excited though when he thought she was and of course bought a baby hat in 24 hours. That made me think they aren't really on the same page. I hope it's handled well no matter how it goes.  Sometimes shows have the couple adopt an older child at some point.

It's funny that some wonder if Delilah is supposed to be NPD or not. I didn't think that a first but now see that some on other sites think that also and a nurse at work said to me when I said how apathetic she was, "Narcissistic people only care about their own." She said Jon was replaced by Eddie, Eddie could be replaced by Andrew and it goes on and on. Time will tell how they do this arc with writing.

I think the suicide "education" is lacking big time with this show. Rome is handling his but it's shaky but that can be realistic. After the disaster with Maggie, he's finding his way. I don't see any recent reaching out by his friends after he disclosed his depression but guys might handle that differently. (or I missed it) Jon's been gone quite a few months and no mention of counseling or any type of therapy for the kids. There has been no mention of how finances beyond the house being saved are being handled or trusts for the kids or how they tidied up Jon's business. Danny gets a money clip.

I hope the writing improves, it has a lot of promise. I lost most of my coworkers watching because of the "soap opera" feeling and filler shows. They would say to me things like "You know Maggie's going to get treatment, I'll catch up with it later in the season".  True, but if a show does it well, you can enjoy the journey. ; )

Edited February 17, 2019 by debraran

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, iwasish said:

Jon’s been dead 7 months, did she and Eddie know she was pregnant prior to his death? If that baby isn’t born in the next 2 months, there are going to be questions.* 

*I only started watching in the last 3 episodes so I’m reading earlier posts to catch-up. The issue of the due date may have been answered. 

Delilah and Eddie haven't had sex since Jon died, so if she got pregnant after he died it introduces a third party.

The night of the funeral (I think in the pilot) he went to see her, and I guess express he still wanted to be together. Delilah was all, "what the fuck is wrong with you, we obviously can't be together now. It's over."

I think Delilah told Eddie she and Jon hadn't been having sex so he (Eddie) was definitely the father. But we don't actually know if that's true. I tend to think it is, because I don't think she would have considered abortion if she thought there was a chance it was Jon's (and if you missed that episode, she did almost terminate). 

If this show lasts long enough, I expect the baby to get sick and need some kind of transplant or blood donation that reveals who the daddy is.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, debraran said:

I hope not, let one show have a woman just not want a baby. Rome seemed so excited though when he thought she was and of course bought a baby hat in 24 hours. That made me think they aren't really on the same page. I hope it's handled well no matter how it goes.  Sometimes shows have the couple adopt an older child at some point.

I went I checked the script to make sure I was remembering correctly. It was during that same episode when Regina was talking to her mother. 

Quote

Uh, I've told you since I was 10 that I do not want to have kids, and that answer has not changed. Not when I turned 30, not when Rome and I got married, and certainly not in the middle of opening a restaurant. 

I really hope that they stick with this because I really liked how they presented Regina’s viewpoint.

[Bethanne]

On 2/15/2019 at 7:10 PM, Dani said:

I have to give a lot of credit to James Roday for being so good that he momentarily made me ignore all of my problems with Gary. I was completely touched by his reaction to Linda’s death that I forgot what an asshole he was to her in the previous episode.

Now I feel really bad for Linda. She had to go through chemo for months dealing with Gary berating her for trying to be positive during the experience. Then on the day she dies cancer free Gary walks back into chemo being Mr. Optimism. I’m surprised she didn’t throw something at him. Now I do wish Maggie had been the one to find out Linda died because she at least seemed to actually  like her. 

I can’t even pretend to know what the vibe is like in a chemo room, but  I kind of feel like if I was one of the other two patients in there getting treatment with Maggie and he comes in acting like fun Disney dad, I would want to slap him into the middle of next week.

[iwasish]

4 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I ask this question as well and I honestly don't know.  I will say this, though...if it turns out that Nash does know what he's doing and Delilah does, indeed, have NPD (which would actually be a very interesting story--it is something that so many people have to deal with but is rarely dealt with in movies or TV), I will have to take back a lot of my criticism of him.

I don't know if it was ever a case of Delilah thinking she didn't know how to do something (install a car seat), but rather she felt as though she shouldn't have to do it.  I'll be honest, I knew that I shouldn't have to install a car seat because I am really, really bad at things like that and I didn't want to do it wrong and endanger my baby.  I get it.  But I also found someone appropriate to help me with it (as I said earlier, our local Fire Department installs these for free).  

I just don't get this thing with Delilah of denying Eddie is the father (if he really is...) but then expecting him to drop everyone for her.

But Delilah has two kids already, she’s never had to install or reinstall a car seat between vehicles? I can see with the first newborn, but after two she had to have done it a few times. I don’t have any kids but did transport nieces and nephews which required moving a car seat from their folks cars to mine. Some were trickier than others but after a time or two it was easy. 

I agree though, her thinking she can have Eddie at her beck and call to perform daddy duty things but keep it a secret that he is the dad, is the height of arrogance. They have to come clean at some point, if for no other reason than the baby itself deserves to know the truth. I speak from personal knowledge as lying about a family members paternity happened in my family and even though most of us suspected the truth, it was never outwardly discussed, and when the truth did come out... well it was devastating and the family relationships have never been the same. There were “good intentions” with the lying but then we know what hell is paved with. 

[Gothish520]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

I went I checked the script to make sure I was remembering correctly. It was during that same episode when Regina was talking to her mother. 

I really hope that they stick with this because I really liked how they presented Regina’s viewpoint.

I completely agree. And I thought I realized fairly early (at about 17) that I didnt want kids - ten is super early, lol.

[maggiemae]

Is it just me - or do kids go on "dates" that young and worry about appetizers or desserts? Glad Gary told Delilah she outed the kid. She needs lots of wake up calls.

[possibilities]

Delilah is the only person in the group who didn't express concern and offer to help after Katherine's accident. All this after Katherine helped her with saving her house.

[nexxie]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

Delilah is the only person in the group who didn't express concern and offer to help after Katherine's accident. All this after Katherine helped her with saving her house.

When Delilah called Eddie, she asked him to tell Katherine she was thinking of her (or some such words) - to me it seemed Delilah was calling Eddie because she had heard about the accident.

[alexvillage]

20 hours ago, debraran said:

Of course she made no effort to understand the suicide at all with all the clues that were given her. I just don't understand the apathy except for a NPD type of disorder. No one is that incurious.

Assuming that NPD stands for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I think this is quite an overreach and frankly stigmatizing. NPD is a mental illness and it is not the same as being a narcissist asshole, entitled and self centered. NPD aligns more with bipolar. People who do have NDP do have moments of depression, they do recognize their egocentrism but have a hard time dealing with it. There are also more complex so-called signs that obviously varies form person topers but that have nothing to do with people might seen as "obvious traits".  We haven't seen Delilah being depressed. I think we need to be careful throwing armchair diagnosis around because we don't personally know the people in the boards and their lives. I lived with someone with NPD for years, and got to know others that were not the same, obviously, but with similar traits, and Delilah does't even come close to it.

[readster]

12 hours ago, Dani said:

I don’t think she has. I also don’t think the show intended for her not wanting kids to be related to being molested. She was 12 when her uncle molested her but I think she said she was younger than that when she knew she didn’t want kids. 

That the show is pertaining that she had this "crappy" life and the reason she didn't want to have children.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, alexvillage said:

Assuming that NPD stands for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I think this is quite an overreach and frankly stigmatizing. NPD is a mental illness and it is not the same as being a narcissist asshole, entitled and self centered. NPD aligns more with bipolar. People who do have NDP do have moments of depression, they do recognize their egocentrism but have a hard time dealing with it. There are also more complex so-called signs that obviously varies form person topers but that have nothing to do with people might seen as "obvious traits".  We haven't seen Delilah being depressed. I think we need to be careful throwing armchair diagnosis around because we don't personally know the people in the boards and their lives. I lived with someone with NPD for years, and got to know others that were not the same, obviously, but with similar traits, and Delilah does't even come close to it.

You are correct, there is a trend even with the news and actual doctor's to armchair diagnose people from afar. I think it is fair to say Delilah is just narcissistic and likes to be taken care of.

I know on a show they can only show so much but that is why throwaway lines are good. I've seen no remorse except when she thought she might have caused it by their affair. I know she wanted to leave Jon but I didn't think she hated him, she was married a long time, had 2 kids. She seemed to be leaving them also when she was planning her escape with Eddie. (that was vague) I've never seen any real interest in the writing for her, to find out more about why Jon jumped, to look in his office, to look into legal/financial affairs with her lawyer, to get the kids counseling, to explore why her husband had an apartment full of things. She saved the house and seemed to get on with he life. A lot of missing parts for a 7 months span of time. I've seen and unfortunately had to hear about life after suicide. For many questions remain, for some it's just painful knowing. But everyone was curious, everyone wanted to explore why. I just don't see it here.

Edited February 17, 2019 by debraran

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, Bethanne said:

I can’t even pretend to know what the vibe is like in a chemo room, but  I kind of feel like if I was one of the other two patients in there getting treatment with Maggie and he comes in acting like fun Disney dad, I would want to slap him into the middle of next week.

Me neither (re vibe), and I can agree that his perkiness could have been annoying - but he did actually have a relationship with Linda, as they'd gone through chemo together as well. So he wasn't just some stranger being annoying. Not sure that forgives anything, but it is slightly different layer.

11 hours ago, iwasish said:

But Delilah has two kids already, she’s never had to install or reinstall a car seat between vehicles? I can see with the first newborn, but after two she had to have done it a few times. I don’t have any kids but did transport nieces and nephews which required moving a car seat from their folks cars to mine. Some were trickier than others but after a time or two it was easy.

Given how rich they thought they were, I would just assume they had car seats in both cars. And if there was any transferring between friends, she's certainly been depicted as a person who would typically let someone else do the job.

With all the focus on Delilah calling Eddy I didn't really pay much attention to her motives, because Eddy said her name out loud - if he hadn't done that, the entire conversation on his end would have seemed pretty benign, as I recall.

[iwasish]

7 hours ago, nexxie said:

When Delilah called Eddie, she asked him to tell Katherine she was thinking of her (or some such words) - to me it seemed Delilah was calling Eddie because she had heard about the accident.

Katherine is feeling physically shitty, she spent the morning discussing the end of her marriage and is having a sort of cathartic talk with Eddie and he’s going to deliver a message from the woman he was cheating with? I don’t think that would have gone over too well with Katherine.  Delilah should have texted, not called... or waited till he got in touch with her. I don’t think there’s much random, casual communication, between the ladies anymore, whatever Katherine did to help Delilah, IMO,  she did as an obligation to Jon. 

[HazelEyes4325]

4 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Assuming that NPD stands for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I think this is quite an overreach and frankly stigmatizing. NPD is a mental illness and it is not the same as being a narcissist asshole, entitled and self centered. NPD aligns more with bipolar. People who do have NDP do have moments of depression, they do recognize their egocentrism but have a hard time dealing with it. There are also more complex so-called signs that obviously varies form person topers but that have nothing to do with people might seen as "obvious traits".  We haven't seen Delilah being depressed. I think we need to be careful throwing armchair diagnosis around because we don't personally know the people in the boards and their lives. I lived with someone with NPD for years, and got to know others that were not the same, obviously, but with similar traits, and Delilah does't even come close to it.

You are right and, as I think I brought up NPD, I sincerely apologize.  I also have someone (now, thankfully, peripherally) in my life who has been diagnosed with NPD and her behavior was very similar to Delilah's, which is where I made that connection.

So, I take back NPD--but I am sticking with her being a raging narcissist.  And I still maintain that, if Nash wanted a really compelling storyline, that actually would not be a bad road to travel.

[nexxie]

1 hour ago, iwasish said:

Katherine is feeling physically shitty, she spent the morning discussing the end of her marriage and is having a sort of cathartic talk with Eddie and he’s going to deliver a message from the woman he was cheating with? I don’t think that would have gone over too well with Katherine.  Delilah should have texted, not called... or waited till he got in touch with her. I don’t think there’s much random, casual communication, between the ladies anymore, whatever Katherine did to help Delilah, IMO,  she did as an obligation to Jon. 

I was responding to the claim that...

“Delilah is the only person in the group who didn't express concern and offer to help after Katherine's accident. All this after Katherine helped her with saving her house.”

She did express concern, though Katherine probably wouldn’t appreciate the sentiment, especially coming by way of Eddie. From a writing standpoint, that call provided an opportunity for Katherine to hear that Eddie wanted to make things right.

[alexvillage]

13 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

So, I take back NPD--but I am sticking with her being a raging narcissist.  And I still maintain that, if Nash wanted a really compelling storyline, that actually would not be a bad road to travel.

Thanks for listening and thinking about it, as did debraran.

I can see Delilah as a narcissist but I think it is mostly bad writing and some sexism - Women needing a man to install car seats (which we know she can do it), or needing a man to talk to a son, because gender norms (I want to believe she called Gary because he has shown to be able to connect with Danny but I don't think the request was put into that context in this one episode). The writers are having a hard time showing the women in this show as fully human - meaning capable and vulnerable, as every human being. They have not stricken the balance on that. 

[HazelEyes4325]

Just now, alexvillage said:

I can see Delilah as a narcissist but I think it is mostly bad writing and some sexism - Women needing a man to install car seats (which we know she can do it), or needing a man to talk to a son, because gender norms (I want to believe she called Gary because he has shown to be able to connect with Danny but I don't think the request was put into that context in this one episode). The writers are having a hard time showing the women in this show as fully human - meaning capable and vulnerable, as every human being. They have not stricken the balance on that. 

 

This is a very valid criticism.  Honestly, the only well-written female character in this show is Katherine.  Well, and Sophie--but we only see her on an as-needed basis, so I'm not counting her at the moment.  Maggie is painted as someone who needs someone to save her, Regina is just completely sidelined, and Delilah...well, you know.

I would say that the show needs more female writers, but @Dani has done a great job of tracking which writers are writing which episodes and it looks like that the weakest episodes they've had were written by women...so I will say that the show needs BETTER female writers.

[TaurusRose]

50 minutes ago, nexxie said:

I was responding to the claim that...

“Delilah is the only person in the group who didn't express concern and offer to help after Katherine's accident. All this after Katherine helped her with saving her house.”

She did express concern, though Katherine probably wouldn’t appreciate the sentiment, especially coming by way of Eddie. From a writing standpoint, that call provided an opportunity for Katherine to hear that Eddie wanted to make things right.

Sorry.  I'm calling bullshit.  Delilah didn't express concern for Katherine.  If she was genuinely concerned about Katherine she would have called or texted her directly.  She would not have used Eddie as a go-between.  She called the person she intended to and only mentioned Katherine to appear less petty.  Delilah's a raging bitch pretending she is something other than the self-involved, manipulative, needy and worthless waste of space she really is. 

[iwasish]

2 hours ago, nexxie said:

I was responding to the claim that...

“Delilah is the only person in the group who didn't express concern and offer to help after Katherine's accident. All this after Katherine helped her with saving her house.”

She did express concern, though Katherine probably wouldn’t appreciate the sentiment, especially coming by way of Eddie. From a writing standpoint, that call provided an opportunity for Katherine to hear that Eddie wanted to make things right.

My post wasn’t an attempt to correct you.. I’m sorry if it came across that way. Delilah did express concern and we agree that Katherine probably didn’t appreciate it being delivered via Eddie. 

I think Eddie does feel regret that he hurt Katherine, (not so sure Delilah does),  sadly the baby paternity reveal is going to undo any type of healing or goodwill that Eddie has fashioned with Katherine.

[izabella]

24 minutes ago, iwasish said:

I think Eddie does feel regret that he hurt Katherine, (not so sure Delilah does),  sadly the baby paternity reveal is going to undo any type of healing or goodwill that Eddie has fashioned with Katherine.

He feels regret for hurting her, but he hasn't learned anything.  Instead, he's setting Katherine up to be hurt again by deceiving her about the baby.  Theo is getting a half-brother!  There is no way this stays hidden, and the longer he chooses to lie to Katherine about it, the more hurt she will be.  Katherine deserves a lot more respect than to be lied to some more by her lying, cheating, soon-to-be-ex-husband.

Edited February 17, 2019 by izabella

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Me neither (re vibe), and I can agree that his perkiness could have been annoying - but he did actually have a relationship with Linda, as they'd gone through chemo together as well. So he wasn't just some stranger being annoying. Not sure that forgives anything, but it is slightly different layer.

I think that makes is worse. He was a complete asshole to her when she was trying to be positive. For him to walk in after being cured and being positive while she is still receiving treatment was obnoxious. 

11 minutes ago, izabella said:

He feels regret for hurting her, but he hasn't learned anything.  Instead, he's setting Katherine up to be hurt again by deceiving her about the baby.  Theo is getting a half-brother!  There is no way this stays hidden, and the longer he chooses to lie to Katherine about it, the more hurt she will be.  Katherine deserves a lot more respect than to be lied to some more by her lying, cheating, soon-to-be-ex-husband.

Yep, Eddie feels bad but not enough to do the right thing even though it would make him look worse. He regrets hurting her but I don’t think he regrets cheating on her.

The fact that one of Delilah’s children is actually Theo half-sibling was very relevant to the guardian discussion. It is unfair that Katherine did not have that information when making the choice. 

[HazelEyes4325]

2 minutes ago, Dani said:

Yep, Eddie feels bad but not enough to do the right thing even though it would make him look worse. He regrets hurting her but I don’t think he regrets cheating on her.

The fact that one of Delilah’s children is actually Theo half-sibling was very relevant to the guardian discussion. It is unfair that Katherine did not have that information when making the choice. 

 

I have an interesting thought on this that I will take the spec thread.

[nexxie]

7 hours ago, iwasish said:

My post wasn’t an attempt to correct you.. I’m sorry if it came across that way. Delilah did express concern and we agree that Katherine probably didn’t appreciate it being delivered via Eddie. 

I think Eddie does feel regret that he hurt Katherine, (not so sure Delilah does),  sadly the baby paternity reveal is going to undo any type of healing or goodwill that Eddie has fashioned with Katherine.

It seems the writers are trying to muddy the waters so we don’t know exactly how they all feel about each other. Does Katherine still want Eddie? Is he having second thoughts about her? Does Delilah want Eddie? Andrew? Neither?

 

9 hours ago, taurusrose said:

Sorry.  I'm calling bullshit.  Delilah didn't express concern for Katherine.  If she was genuinely concerned about Katherine she would have called or texted her directly.  She would not have used Eddie as a go-between.  She called the person she intended to and only mentioned Katherine to appear less petty.  Delilah's a raging bitch pretending she is something other than the self-involved, manipulative, needy and worthless waste of space she really is. 

imo Delilah isn’t so clear - looks like the writers are being ambiguous so far and letting people project what they want onto her. That way it takes longer for the story to unfold.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, nexxie said:

imo Delilah isn’t so clear - looks like the writers are being ambiguous so far and letting people project what they want onto her. That way it takes longer for the story to unfold.

How I interpreted that scene was that Delilah was calling to see how Katherine was...but she also wanted to subtly acknowledge that Eddie "stood her up" at the store, despite knowing that it was for a good reason. Plus, Delilah probably didn't want to Katherine directly since she was the one hurt, and she knew she would be one of the last people Katherine would want to directly hear from. So, Delilah probably did think of Katherine's best interests, but she didn't call to ask how Katherine was doing; she called to give her her best wishes. But she also called about the baby stuff that Eddie offered to help with. Maybe she meant it consciously or maybe it was a subconscious thing (or maybe me just projecting) but I think her calling Eddie WAS to bring up the subject of the baby stuff, how he didn't show up (no matter how good of a reason he genuinely had, which I don't think Delilah was blaming him for) and how she was essentially forgiving him for not showing up. It was a subtle, yet very narcissistic move to take back the power in the Delilah/Eddie relationship. 

It's more of the fact that Delilah called Eddie, said "I heard about Katherine" and "Tell her I'm thinking of her" without offering any type of help. Even though Katherine wouldn't have accepted it, a simple "I know I wouldn't be wanted, but if you two need anything..." I mean, thinking about Katherine's well being is nice and all but even Katherine showed a little more compassion in the pilot, when she was more of a one note character portrayed as the worst wife ever by Gary and Eddie. She showed up at the funeral AND the service afterward! But all Delilah can muster up is a "Tell her I'm thinking about her." 

For me, although this isn't Delilah's worst moment, it's definitely not as small as it's initially perceived. It's still a moderately annoying narcissistic moment of hers. The bigger issue is that I'm still unsure whether we're supposed to see Delilah as the bad person. This particular moment could have been just for plot reasons, to fill in a scene where Katherine overhears Eddie's weird conversation about him only staying out of necessity (and I don't think that's the entire truth; I do believe Eddie cares about Katherine and stayed to help her not just out of guilt).

[possibilities]

Has Delilah figured out who will be the guardian for HER kids, should SHE suddenly die?

[Dusty]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

Has Delilah figured out who will be the guardian for HER kids, should SHE suddenly die?

That would require thinking ahead and I don't think she knows how to do that. To be fair, I don't actually know anybody that has a formal guardianship set up for their kids in case they die but I also don't know a ton of people with kids either so I'm not sure if that's exactly the norm.

[crgirl412]

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

Has Delilah figured out who will be the guardian for HER kids, should SHE suddenly die?

Excellent point.  Will she pick Gary, too?  He could wind up with three kids if all three parents die.  In a sicker show it might be a murder-murder-suicide plot.   Gary would then be the "fun uncle" to three kids, dad to one dog and boyfriend to a dying girlfriend.  He'll be even more all over the place.   

[HazelEyes4325]

3 hours ago, Dusty said:

That would require thinking ahead and I don't think she knows how to do that. To be fair, I don't actually know anybody that has a formal guardianship set up for their kids in case they die but I also don't know a ton of people with kids either so I'm not sure if that's exactly the norm.

Yeah, that's pretty common.  My husband and I still haven't officially decided on anyone yet (our kids are 8 and 10!).  I think we're both in the "we can hold out for 10 more years!" camp!

That being said, it is NOT surprising that Eddie and Katherine had (because Katherine is a lawyer, and strangely in the AMLT world, an adult) and that they had originally picked Jon and Delilah (because Jon was a god among men).  I'm still don't think Gary was the best choice, and I still want to meet Katherine's wild child sister, though.

[pinkglove]

On 2/16/2019 at 5:49 AM, HazelEyes4325 said:

I wrote in the character thread about how I think Katherine deals with a lot of low self-esteem and, with that in mind, I can see how this would really bother her.  She is someone (I think) who feels like she has to prove herself and has to be enough for everyone and the fact that she perceives that these women know what happened is a huge slap in her face.  

(Unless Eddie was bed hopping, though, I don't think they know anything more than she and Eddie are separated--as in, I doubt they know that Eddie cheated on her).

Good point!

As for Delilah calling Eddie:

She didn't have to call to see how Katherine was. She was in the restaurant with four people who pretty much told her everything five minutes earlier. She also could have told Gary to pass any good wishes and call him later to ask if Katherine was alright. (Unless my mind messed it all up and Gary and Maggie weren't in the restaurant when Delilah came? Not much of a difference either way.) Obviously, in those situations you also call to tell people that you are thinking about them. Which is all fine and nice unless you know that the person who had an accident doesn't want to think about you more than they already have to; and Delilah was aware that was the case here. And that Eddie most likely wouldn't pass the message. 

So, IMO, the reason why she called was for Eddie to know that she's thinking about Katherine and that she acknowledges staying with Katherine was more important than their plans together. Or, in other words, to look good in Eddie's eyes and to attach herself to the situation that she wasn't a part of and (for Katherine's sake) shouldn't be a part of.  Of course she has no issue with letting her friends deal with their problems (or with her problems, for that matter) without her participation. But the one time when staying completely out of it would be best for everyone, she can't do it. 

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, crgirl412 said:

He'll be even more all over the place.

Yeah, but he can go to the head of any line just by bleating about all his troubles and responsibilities.

[nexxie]

On 2/17/2019 at 11:37 AM, alexvillage said:

Thanks for listening and thinking about it, as did debraran.

I can see Delilah as a narcissist but I think it is mostly bad writing and some sexism - Women needing a man to install car seats (which we know she can do it), or needing a man to talk to a son, because gender norms (I want to believe she called Gary because he has shown to be able to connect with Danny but I don't think the request was put into that context in this one episode). The writers are having a hard time showing the women in this show as fully human - meaning capable and vulnerable, as every human being. They have not stricken the balance on that. 

True - I hope the writers step up their game when Delilah is finally confronted with Barbara. At that point, she needs to move out of her grief/shock/guilt muddle and viewers should get a clearer view of Delilah.

Edited February 18, 2019 by nexxie

[Guest]

1 hour ago, nexxie said:

True - I hope the writers step up their game when Delilah is finally confronted with Barbara. At that point, she needs to move out of her grief/shock/guilt muddle and viewers should get a clearer view of Delilah.

I agree. More than anything else I would like to have a clear indication of who Delilah is before the season ends. That will probably be the deciding factor if I watch next season. 

[iwasish]

3 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Yeah, that's pretty common.  My husband and I still haven't officially decided on anyone yet (our kids are 8 and 10!).  I think we're both in the "we can hold out for 10 more years!" camp!

That being said, it is NOT surprising that Eddie and Katherine had (because Katherine is a lawyer, and strangely in the AMLT world, an adult) and that they had originally picked Jon and Delilah (because Jon was a god among men).  I'm still don't think Gary was the best choice, and I still want to meet Katherine's wild child sister, though.

Gary as guardian.... he left Colin in his apartment all day long, while he ran around town with Maggie, doing errands and favors for friends and then heading off for the 3rd (?) time for Plymouth Rock. Did he ever go back home and feed or WALK the dog? Or is Colin your typical TV show dog that never needs walking? 

[Kktjones]

On 2/15/2019 at 10:34 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Am I the only one who thought it was horrible for Gary to lie to Maggie about Lisa (I think that was the name of the patient with the puzzle)?

Yeah, I can't figure out why he just didn't say "she wasn't there" (which still would have been a lie of omission, but he could later explain why he wanted to delay the truth). Why would they think she would still be there several hours after they had left anyway? As someone who's had chemo, you're only there for 3-4 hours at a time. Not all day from morning to night.

I'm just trying to figure out if I even like anyone on the show right now. I guess I like Regina and Rome the best (although their family members are all insufferable). Beyond that I'm coming up empty. I like individual characters in individual scenes here and there, but am mostly indifferent about them all...

[pinkglove]

On 2/17/2019 at 6:37 PM, alexvillage said:

Thanks for listening and thinking about it, as did debraran.

I can see Delilah as a narcissist but I think it is mostly bad writing and some sexism - Women needing a man to install car seats (which we know she can do it), or needing a man to talk to a son, because gender norms (I want to believe she called Gary because he has shown to be able to connect with Danny but I don't think the request was put into that context in this one episode). The writers are having a hard time showing the women in this show as fully human - meaning capable and vulnerable, as every human being. They have not stricken the balance on that. 

I think the issue with Delilah (at least for me) is not that she isn't capable of taking care of herself or that she's too vulnerable. There are times when she comes out as someone who chooses to play vulnerable, which makes her seem narcissistic. She keeps using Gary's control issues to her advantage, until it no longer suits her, and she suddenly sees right through him and stands up to him. Also, the way she used Andrew (it's the third time I'm posting about him and I still don't know if that's his name) wasn't about her being vulnerable, she was more than capable. More than capable to manipulate someone new to handle her responsibilities.

Similarly, it seems to me that she doesn't need Eddie to install the car seat, she needs to keep Eddie close and involved, without him being too close or too involved. 

[iwasish]

1 hour ago, pinkglove said:

I think the issue with Delilah (at least for me) is not that she isn't capable of taking care of herself or that she's too vulnerable. There are times when she comes out as someone who chooses to play vulnerable, which makes her seem narcissistic. She keeps using Gary's control issues to her advantage, until it no longer suits her, and she suddenly sees right through him and stands up to him. Also, the way she used Andrew (it's the third time I'm posting about him and I still don't know if that's his name) wasn't about her being vulnerable, she was more than capable. More than capable to manipulate someone new to handle her responsibilities.

Similarly, it seems to me that she doesn't need Eddie to install the car seat, she needs to keep Eddie close and involved, without him being too close or too involved. 

Have Delilah and Eddie even slept together since Jon died? It’s been 7 months. Gary’s comment on how long It’s been since Eddie had sex was interesting. I wonder if he’ll put two and two together. 

Maggies mother is coming into town. Doesn’t seem as if  she and Maggie are close, it will be interesting to see how that plays out. 

[Winston Wolfe]

On 2/17/2019 at 5:49 PM, nexxie said:

It seems the writers are trying to muddy the waters so we don’t know exactly how they all feel about each other. Does Katherine still want Eddie? Is he having second thoughts about her? Does Delilah want Eddie? Andrew? Neither?

The way DG is playing it, seems to me Eddie wants to get back with Katherine, but the baby is keeping him tied to Delilah.

[HazelEyes4325]

3 hours ago, iwasish said:

Have Delilah and Eddie even slept together since Jon died? It’s been 7 months. Gary’s comment on how long It’s been since Eddie had sex was interesting. I wonder if he’ll put two and two together. 

Maggies mother is coming into town. Doesn’t seem as if  she and Maggie are close, it will be interesting to see how that plays out. 

No, the affair was over the night of the funeral and I'm guessing that nothing happened between the death and the funeral (those are dark, but very busy--and very public--days).

2 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

The way DG is playing it, seems to me Eddie wants to get back with Katherine, but the baby is keeping him tied to Delilah.

That's how I'm seeing it too.  This is why I hope he comes clean about it to Katherine instead of Delilah using it as another thing to make sure he doesn't reunite with his wife.

 

6 hours ago, iwasish said:

Gary as guardian.... he left Colin in his apartment all day long, while he ran around town with Maggie, doing errands and favors for friends and then heading off for the 3rd (?) time for Plymouth Rock. Did he ever go back home and feed or WALK the dog? Or is Colin your typical TV show dog that never needs walking? 

Well, Gary might very well have a dog walking service.  Many of my dog owning friends who have full-time jobs outside the home use them (the rest use doggie daycare).  

Of course, Gary never goes to work, so...

[iwasish]

3 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

No, the affair was over the night of the funeral and I'm guessing that nothing happened between the death and the funeral (those are dark, but very busy--and very public--days).

That's how I'm seeing it too.  This is why I hope he comes clean about it to Katherine instead of Delilah using it as another thing to make sure he doesn't reunite with his wife.

Thanks for the info on  the end of the affair.

Even if Eddie comes clean about the baby to Katherine, it may be too big an issue for her to reconcile with him. What happens if Delilah wants to maintain the lie that it is Jon’s? Is Eddie just going to pretend too? That’s a huge secret to keep with so many people in the circle. What if Katherine spills the beans to someone, or Eddie gets drunk and confides in someone? 

[OpalNightstream]

As much as I hate to admit this, I would like to see Eddie and Katherine reconcile. However the baby will undoubtedly complicate he situation so I don’t know a way around that. 

I feel like Eddie needs a little more shaming about the affair. I think he (and Delilah) are getting off (No pun intended) too easy. 

[HazelEyes4325]

1 minute ago, OpalNightstream said:

As much as I hate to admit this, I would like to see Eddie and Katherine reconcile. However the baby will undoubtedly complicate he situation so I don’t know a way around that. 

I feel like Eddie needs a little more shaming about the affair. I think he (and Delilah) are getting off (No pun intended) too easy. 

I agree with this...although I would rather that, if Eddie and Katherine reconcile, it happens down the road and Eddie gets time on his own to grow up.

While I think both Eddie and Delilah were forgiven far too easily, Eddie at least acknowledges that he made a mistake.  Delilah has not even accepted responsibility--after all, she claims it was Jon's fault.  I would really like to see her hit with a big dose of reality.

[iwasish]

31 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I agree with this...although I would rather that, if Eddie and Katherine reconcile, it happens down the road and Eddie gets time on his own to grow up.

While I think both Eddie and Delilah were forgiven far too easily, Eddie at least acknowledges that he made a mistake.  Delilah has not even accepted responsibility--after all, she claims it was Jon's fault.  I would really like to see her hit with a big dose of reality.

If the truth comes out, I don’t see both of them remaining within the circle of friends. Either Eddie or Delilah, alone, may if they wish too and if they can sell themselves as the least guilty. It also depends on what the big secret to Jon’s  past is (if it’s anything, or just a million little things). 

I think since Jon seems to have been the glue, it’s more likely Delilah would move on, probably with a new admirer waiting in the wings. 

[HazelEyes4325]

2 minutes ago, iwasish said:

If the truth comes out, I don’t see both of them remaining within the circle of friends. Either Eddie or Delilah, alone, may if they wish too and if they can sell themselves as the least guilty. It also depends on what the big secret to Jon’s  past is (if it’s anything, or just a million little things). 

I think since Jon seems to have been the glue, it’s more likely Delilah would move on, probably with a new admirer waiting in the wings. 

Taking this to the spec thread...

[alexvillage]

12 hours ago, pinkglove said:

I think the issue with Delilah (at least for me) is not that she isn't capable of taking care of herself or that she's too vulnerable. There are times when she comes out as someone who chooses to play vulnerable, which makes her seem narcissistic. She keeps using Gary's control issues to her advantage, until it no longer suits her, and she suddenly sees right through him and stands up to him. Also, the way she used Andrew (it's the third time I'm posting about him and I still don't know if that's his name) wasn't about her being vulnerable, she was more than capable. More than capable to manipulate someone new to handle her responsibilities.

Similarly, it seems to me that she doesn't need Eddie to install the car seat, she needs to keep Eddie close and involved, without him being too close or too involved. 

I agree with this and I wonder why they can't get the character right. To me, it is bad writing from men who have a very limited vision of what a woman is, or who have this idea of what a woman should be. Then they remember that they'd better write some "woke" stuff, but fall back into their own biases. I don't know the actress so I don't know if she is playing it well but I tend t think that there isn't a good actor who can change bad writing.

[Lady Calypso]

9 hours ago, OpalNightstream said:

As much as I hate to admit this, I would like to see Eddie and Katherine reconcile. However the baby will undoubtedly complicate he situation so I don’t know a way around that. 

I feel like Eddie needs a little more shaming about the affair. I think he (and Delilah) are getting off (No pun intended) too easy. 

I think Eddie hasn't gotten off easy....at least as much as Delilah has. Delilah's gotten basically no blowback. She got ignored by Regina for less than a full episode and Regina never got to cuss her out. With Eddie, at least they're showing that Katherine's still pissed and hurt by his betrayal, which is way more than Delilah's getting. She gets to still joke around with Gary and call her friends whenever she needs them! But yeah, Eddie is still getting off easier than he should. They also skipped ahead a bunch of months, so that doesn't help (I think they confirmed this past episode that it's been six or seven months since Jon died? Unsure about this part, but it's been at least five months now). 

Realistically, there'd be no chance of reconciliation with Eddie and Katherine. The only way they could reconcile....way down the road (like, at least a couple of years) is if Delilah talks to Katherine and takes the full blame for the lie, but even then, Eddie did participate and I also don't see Delilah being selfless enough to try to help mend Eddie/Katherine's marriage, even when there's no real chance if she gets involved, and even if Eddie said that he wanted Katherine back and didn't want Delilah anymore. So it would also require a lot of begging, pleading and changed behaviour from Eddie.

So yeah, there's no way this would ever really work in real life. But with this being a television show, they can do whatever the hell they want. Plus, I REALLY loathe Delilah/Eddie so any chance of them never ever getting together works with me, at this point. My biggest fear is that they bring Eddie/Delilah together and they become a couple. That would actually get me to quit this show for good.

[pinkglove]

2 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I agree with this and I wonder why they can't get the character right. To me, it is bad writing from men who have a very limited vision of what a woman is, or who have this idea of what a woman should be. Then they remember that they'd better write some "woke" stuff, but fall back into their own biases. I don't know the actress so I don't know if she is playing it well but I tend t think that there isn't a good actor who can change bad writing.

It may be bad writing but not necessarily. If they did intend for Delilah to be narcissistic, they did a decent job. I know people almost exactly like her, both men and women. (It's even kind of believable that people are drawn to her, meaning men and just about anyone else who's always ready to rush to her rescue... that happens, too, with this personality type, according to my experience.)

I guess it might seem like a bad choice in the sense that narcissistic characters tend to provoke strong reactions and it's hard to find the good beneath the bad and annoying. People tend to see their manipulative traits as the mother of all evil (which I kind of disagree with, because in non-extreme cases, and this one isn't, it takes two for the manipulation to work). But I'm not sure; there are plenty of such types in everyday life so I don't mind. What's disturbing is that none of the characters sees through it; that's what bothers me about the writing. They are all adults, even if they don't (always) act like it, it's not that hard to notice and yet whatever happens, 90% of the time they see Delilah as the victim and play along.