The Stand - General Discussion

[Mr. Sparkle]

I read the book again about a year ago. It still holds up in that Stephen King way, he's a great story-teller. The build-up is the best part of the novel, and that is completely lacking here. 

I never cared much for the mini-series (haven't seen it this century,) but I'm remembering it better in comparison to this lump of crap. 

3 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

On the positive side, Tom Cullen's plot this episode was great. And the actor made really good choices

I think Tom Cullen, Flagg, and Harold (except last episode) are the best parts of this. 

[Keywestclubkid]

57 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

This miniseries is so bad that it is making me question whether my fond memories of the book and the original miniseries were unwarranted. 

Like maybe I sandpapered oveer the rough bits of plot holes/twists because I was younger/more naive or whatever. 

No this is still my favorite book by king .. this is just a shitty shitty adaption

[Schweedie]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

This miniseries is so bad that it is making me question whether my fond memories of the book and the original miniseries were unwarranted. 

Like maybe I sandpapered oveer the rough bits of plot holes/twists because I was younger/more naive or whatever. 

I re-read it not long ago at all - either before this series began or after the first episode, and like Superclam says above, it absolutely holds up in that Stephen King way. Some things are dated, sure, but the whole buildup where we get to know everyone and follow them through the initial chaos of Captain Trips is so good. There was one chapter that really got to me this time that I didn't remember - short snippets about random people who died during the "second wave" of the epidemic, in accidents or getting sick in regular ways when there was no help to get, and people like Rita. That chapter really brought home how society just completely broke down.

The original miniseries... I rewatched that recently, too, and while it's sort of campy in many ways, it still works better a lot of the time.

I can't believe this is where they went with Trashcan. What the actual heck. I did like the moment where Lloyd, Julie and -- someone else, I can't remember who, realised that Flagg was about to get very angry at Bobby Terry and just sort of drew back a few steps all at the same time. I think that was pretty much the only thing I liked.

[patty1h]

Did I zone out and miss the part where actor Clifton Collins, Jr. was introduced earlier, before his 5 minute scene of meeting and being murdered by Flagg?   Did they really just bring in a fairly decent actor and then have him taken out that quick?  There are no adjectives strong enough to express how I cringed at Trash Can Man.  Why did he play TCM like he was auditioning for the next Planet of the Apes movie?  I saw the original miniseries and had such hopes for this, but it is so tragically substandard.

Edited January 22, 2021 by patty1h

[calliope1975]

39 minutes ago, patty1h said:

Did I zone out and miss the part where actor Clifton Collins, Jr. was introduced earlier, before his 5 minute scene of meeting and being murdered by Flagg? 

I was wondering the same thing then figured we'd get his backstory and arc 15 minutes before the final episode ends since TPTB love their non-linear storytelling. 

[Chaos Theory]

the only thing.  about the series that I still think is better is Lloyd.  I like the way they wrote him in this.  A guy who thought Captain Tripp’s was going to be his great adventure and where he was finally going to get the girl only to have everything end up same old same old for him.  But he was so full of rage that he didn’t realize  he actually did have people in Boulder CO who wanted to be his friend.  
 

The rest of the show was missed opportunities.  I don’t care about casting choices.   I hated that the show missed out on the one of my favorite scenes of the 80s? Movie where Tom Cullens finally says M-O-O-N spells moon unless I am forgetting that happened when the main group told him to go to Vegas and it was a mystical moment for me that helped solidify the good bs evil thing King was doing.  That is just kinda lacking here.

 

Say what you want about the casting choices from the original movie but even back then I recognized most of the actors.   I don’t recognize any in this and that might be a disconnect for me as well.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[ShellsandCheese]

14 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

This miniseries is so bad that it is making me question whether my fond memories of the book and the original miniseries were unwarranted. 

Like maybe I sandpapered oveer the rough bits of plot holes/twists because I was younger/more naive or whatever. 

This is just a crappy adaptation. The book definitely holds up, and the original miniseries does too, mostly. (Granted references and FX is totally dated). For what it's worth, I still think the opening of the original miniseries is one of the best ever openings for any TV show, miniseries or movie. Especially the credits...............The Stand Opening + Credits  

[Scout Finch]

I still wish either of the miniseries had used The Alarm's song "The Stand." That was their first single, back in 1984, and was inspired by the book. Two of the characters are even mentioned in it: Trashcan Man and Walking Dude (one of Flagg's names). I remember a time in the early '80s where almost every article about The Alarm, Big Country, or U2, would also mention the other two! The singer has survived lymph cancer and then about 10 years later, in 2005, had leukemia but has been in remission for a while. I haven't kept up with them but apparently, he's still very active making albums and performing, solo and with The Alarm. It would have been really nice for them to have had some resurgence if the song had been used in either miniseries. Bah.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Scout Finch

[Etta Place]

I'm not even fazed by Trash Can Man. I am livid over the complete waste of Nick and the lack of having his death mean anything at all. It looked like he just happened to be there.

[AstaCharles]

17 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

This is just a crappy adaptation. The book definitely holds up, and the original miniseries does too, mostly. (Granted references and FX is totally dated). For what it's worth, I still think the opening of the original miniseries is one of the best ever openings for any TV show, miniseries or movie. Especially the credits...............The Stand Opening + Credits  

The score is great. That was one of my favorite things sbout the 90's version

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On 1/22/2021 at 10:14 AM, patty1h said:

Did I zone out and miss the part where actor Clifton Collins, Jr. was introduced earlier, before his 5 minute scene of meeting and being murdered by Flagg? 

No, because the minute he appeared onscreen my husband commented on it (he didn't remember the actor's name but recognized him from Capote). 

[littlepaw]

20 hours ago, Scout Finch said:

I still wish either of the miniseries had used The Alarm's song "The Stand." That was their first single, back in 1984, and was inspired by the book. Two of the characters are even mentioned in it: Trashcan Man and Walking Dude (one of Flagg's names). I remember a time in the early '80s where almost every article about The Alarm, Big Country, or U2, would also mention the other two! The singer has survived lymph cancer and then about 10 years later, in 2005, had leukemia but has been in remission for a while. I haven't kept up with them but apparently, he's still very active making albums and performing, solo and with The Alarm. It would have been really nice for them to have had some resurgence if the song had been used in either miniseries. Bah.

Same here! I worked for a alternative-rock station in the 80s and that song was huge. It's just a great song overall. I can't believe neither miniseries used the song; perhaps it will pop up over the end credits of the last episode. I won't hold my breath, though. 

[txhorns79]

On 1/22/2021 at 11:18 PM, ShellsandCheese said:

For what it's worth, I still think the opening of the original miniseries is one of the best ever openings for any TV show, miniseries or movie. Especially the credits...............The Stand Opening + Credits  

I don't know.  It may have needed more cowbell. 

[IndyMischa]

Things I liked:

*ASkars naked. I'm easy to please. 

*The rose petals and red carpet in the desert were cool shots.

*The plot moved along. 

I did not like that this is almost over, and I still dgaf about most of these people. Even Stu, the one I really do care about, is at least partially benefiting from my affection for the actor and the book character. 

Trashcan Man and the awful right hand affectation, continue to disgust me.

[Chaos Theory]

It’s interesting what the series keeps and what it doesn’t.  Now it’s been awhile since I watched the old miniseries and I never read the book but I do there was a lot about the old miniseries I really liked.  And a lot of what made it so great was removed.  Now I don’t mind the flashback format.  If that was the only problem I would have rolled with it.  As a matter of fact there were times I actually kinda enjoyed it.  It gave me a chance to get to know done characters and how this particular incarnation wanted to change them.  Is still say this version of Harold was really well done and probably the only thing better then the original series.  I like the fact that he was written as a stone cold sociopath almost all the way through until he was sitting there dying looking back and realizing he did t have to be that way but not quite willing to apologize completely.  
 

Everything else is kinda waisted in what could have been a great story.

[Mr. Sparkle]

This was probably the best episode yet, fwiw. Did they get rid of that flashback thing? Maybe that helped. Still pretty "meh." 

[ShellsandCheese]

2 hours ago, Superclam said:

This was probably the best episode yet, fwiw. Did they get rid of that flashback thing? Maybe that helped. Still pretty "meh." 

Yeah. Better episode but it left me so incredibly frustrated because it highlighted how they totally underused and squandered the talents of so many talented folks. We are seven hours in and the character development has been so bad and lazy. 

Not sure how I feel about the changes in regards to Nadine and Flagg. And because it can’t be said enough, Amber Heard is awful as Nadine. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[Mr. Sparkle]

34 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Yeah. Better episode but it left me so incredibly frustrated because it highlighted how they totally underused and squandered the talents of so many talented folks. We are seven hours in and the character development has been so bad and lazy. 

Agreed. The final two episodes may be good, but it's not enough to save it. The whole build-up to the ending didn't work here. 

[Keywestclubkid]

3 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Yeah. Better episode but it left me so incredibly frustrated because it highlighted how they totally underused and squandered the talents of so many talented folks. We are seven hours in and the character development has been so bad and lazy. 

Not sure how I feel about the changes in regards to Nadine and Flagg. And because it can’t be said enough, Amber Heard is awful as Nadine. 

Why the fuck they are making Nadine completely ok with this is pissing me off .. ugh 

[BonnieD]

Better this week and yes, I think part of it is the straight linear narrative. Plus much time devoted to the core characters with no distractions. I feel like the entire production was like a 5-year-old, or maybe a magician "Look here. No, look here. Wait, Look over here instead! Are you not entertained?" so frantic rather than sense of menace slowly building to a climax

[ShellsandCheese]

On 1/28/2021 at 10:16 PM, Keywestclubkid said:

Why the fuck they are making Nadine completely ok with this is pissing me off .. ugh 

Right? I can't help but think they realized Amber Heard would not pull off the character arc as it is in the books, or even the original miniseries — so they made some on-the-fly changes. That's me being positive, lol. But more than likely the changes were planned - they better not try to turn her into a last-minute hero though.......

[Etta Place]

This was maybe the most frustrating episode for me because for the first time you could actually see the wasted potential. Seeing Greg Kinnear here made me wonder why he was just set decoration in past episodes. Sigh.

Question: in the book/previous miniseries, Flagg directly causes Harold's crash, right? Or at least Nadine doesn't cause it. I'm not a fan of putting that on her here.

[Keywestclubkid]

4 hours ago, Etta Place said:

This was maybe the most frustrating episode for me because for the first time you could actually see the wasted potential. Seeing Greg Kinnear here made me wonder why he was just set decoration in past episodes. Sigh.

Question: in the book/previous miniseries, Flagg directly causes Harold's crash, right? Or at least Nadine doesn't cause it. I'm not a fan of putting that on her here.

She doesn’t cause it but she knows that something was gonna happen and he was never going to make it all the way... 

[Luckylyn]

The writing and acting for Nadine is just terrible. I don’t understand what they are doing with her at all.  

The episodes are better now that they are linear but they wasted a ton if time focused on style over substance.   So much character development was glossed over in the first episodes so it’s more difficult to be invested now.   Nick’s death had no impact because I never had the chance to get attached to this version of Nick.  I only care because of the book and the original miniseries.  If I came to this series with no prior knowledge  to fill in the gaps,  I don’t think I would have any investment at all.  I am hanging on because of my preexisting love of the material not because they are telling this story well. 

I am really curious to hear the perspective of someone totally new to the story and whose only knowledge comes from the current series.  Am I overly critical because I can make comparisons to prior material?   Is this miniseries good for someone new?

 

[Ripley68]

I'm glad I came here before I watched the episodes.  I've been watching heavy spoilers, and wasn't thinking too highly to begin with.  I too was very excited about a reboot, though I thought the casting of Trash, Tom, Mother Abigail and NIck were spot on in the original.  The actor who played Tom was perfect in looks and attitude.  I was really hoping that they would do a MUCH better job in casting Nadine, Flagg, Harold and Frannie.  All great actors, just not the people for those roles.  Totally agree with all the points made above about those actors.

My favorite part of the book and the OS was the spread of the disease, I lost interest once everyone was in there respective locations.  Looks like I'll pass on this one.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Laughable. I actually laughed twice during this, and I don't think they were trying to be funny. 

[UnoAgain]

So.. Will it just be frannie Joe and the baby now?  This episode wiped out a lot of ppl... 

[captain1]

Gah!  I can’t believe Stephen King actually had anything to do with this dreck.  I’ll have to rewatch the 1994 miniseries as a palate cleanser.

[IndyMischa]

2 hours ago, Superclam said:

Laughable. I actually laughed twice during this, and I don't think they were trying to be funny. 

I cackled when Flagg danced on his balcony. Dancing is apparently ASkars' kryptonite. Who knew? 

[Mr. Sparkle]

7 minutes ago, IndyMischa said:

I cackled when Flagg danced on his balcony. Dancing is apparently ASkars' kryptonite. Who knew? 

Yes! That was LOL #1 for me. So out of character! 

[UnoAgain]

58 minutes ago, Superclam said:

Yes! That was LOL #1 for me. So out of character! 

It was so random I jumped.. I was shocked.. Then I started laughing... I don't totally get what's happening... Or how this ends.. Bit I sat thru 8 episodes already so ima watch next week

[Cotypubby]

6 hours ago, Superclam said:

Laughable. I actually laughed twice during this, and I don't think they were trying to be funny. 

I don’t think they were going for funny here but I laughed hard at “Cancel the nursery.”  
 

Well, that was...an episode. I think there is just no way to have a literal hand of God stabbing people with lightning bolts without it looking stupid. 

[patty1h]

I muttered "this is garbage" several times during this episode.

[ShellsandCheese]

Talented cast? Yes, for the most part, with a few exceptions. Good source material? Absolutely. Successful previous miniseries that you could use a blueprint? Yep. So I am really struggling to understand how this turned out so bad. It's like they went the seasons 6-8 Games of Throne route and sacrificed storytelling, character development, and plot for "set pieces", except they forgot the model doesn't work for this type of story.

I really don't care what happens to anyone, because I'm not invested in any of these characters. The audience was supposed to be saddened by Glen's death, it's supposed to be an emotional gut punch; but I didn't even blink because I feel like GK has gotten maybe 45 minutes of screen time total. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[patty1h]

The only thing that made me have any reaction/feeling towards this episode was the horrifying specter of Nadine's smashed face. The rest of it was pretty crap. Glen's death, Nadine's labor, Stu in a ravine with a wolf, Lloyd's decapitation, Larry's drowning... you think those scenes would affect a viewer but I was pissed at how bad this whole thing had been bungled.

[Mr. Sparkle]

On 1/28/2021 at 8:05 PM, Superclam said:

The final two episodes may be good,

Well, I got that one wrong. 

[Luckylyn]

Wow this was aggressively terrible. I had high expectations of the Hand of God sequence.   I expected improved special effects after all these years would improve on the 90s miniseries.  But this was so cheesy.

Glen speechifying was the best part but they ruined it by changing it.  In the book, Glen gets to confront Flagg directly which is much more powerful.  The fake trial was an interesting change but Flagg should have been in the room and not watching through a camera.

I did not care about Nadine.  The writing and acting for the character lessened her impact for me.  They didn’t bother building the relationship between Nadine and Larry until too late and so I never felt a connection between them.

Trashcan Man was never allowed to be a fully fleshed out character but was basically just a tool to get the bomb.  That was potential squandered which should be this miniseries subtitle.  “The Stand 2020:  So Much Potential Squandered” 

Vegas never worked for me.  It should have been by this authoritarian place where Flagg was working them hard to get militarized to prepare an attack on Boulder.   In the book you could be crucified for drug use because Flagg didn’t want his people distracted from his goals.   Vegas wasn’t a party place.  It ran on work and fear.   They could have merged both ideas with Flagg working his people hard but then providing them with brief party breaks where they can indulge with strict deadly consequences if you don’t get to work when your pleasure time is up.  
 

[Keywestclubkid]

LOL at the court reporter typing away at the trial .. thats all I am taking away from this horrible horrible episode 

[hendersonrocks]

Quote

I am really curious to hear the perspective of someone totally new to the story and whose only knowledge comes from the current series.  Am I overly critical because I can make comparisons to prior material?   Is this miniseries good for someone new?

Hello! This is me. I would not have watched on my own but my partner - who has read the book and seen the other miniseries - wanted to. I think it's been fairly terrible* but at this point I just want to see how the story ends.

*For example:

• Amber Heard's and everything about Nadine's motivations/history w/ Flagg
• The character that I gather is called Trashcan Man but I honestly don't know because everything about him has been confusing and inexplicable
• That I had to ask a few episodes in, Flagg is supposed to be the devil, right?
• The Mary Sue-ness of Stu and Mother Abigail and whatever Greg Kinnear's character was named
• Basically, I feel like very little of the story has been explained to someone new to it - it seems like this version was put together largely for people who already know what's supposed to be happening here

Things that I've thought were okay:

• The portrayal of Harold - I felt like I got him and why he was the way he was
• All of the stuff about how Captain Trip(p) spread and changed life, and brought survivors together into one of two camps
• The scenery?!

[rina9294]

The Stand is my favorite Stephen book ever, I have no issues with changes from mini-series and I was excited for this one because the casting looked good. I can now say I hated what they have done with the story. No motivation for anyone, random ball of lightning to destroy Las Vegas and no real character story. I'm going to go back and watch the 1990s version because casting horrors aside it was a better version than this.

[Schweedie]

21 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

Vegas never worked for me.  It should have been by this authoritarian place where Flagg was working them hard to get militarized to prepare an attack on Boulder.   In the book you could be crucified for drug use because Flagg didn’t want his people distracted from his goals.   Vegas wasn’t a party place.  It ran on work and fear.   They could have merged both ideas with Flagg working his people hard but then providing them with brief party breaks where they can indulge with strict deadly consequences if you don’t get to work when your pleasure time is up.  
 

So much this. I'm not sure why, but for some reason it might be the thing I've hated the most (along with the writing for both Nick and Nadine). They completely missed the point of Flagg's Vegas.

[patty1h]

Quote

Did I zone out and miss the part where actor Clifton Collins, Jr. was introduced earlier, before his 5 minute scene of meeting and being murdered by Flagg?   Did they really just bring in a fairly decent actor and then have him taken out that quick?  

This was my question back during episode 6, where I wondered about the character of Bobby Terry, played by Clifton Collins, Jr.  This guy is a pretty recognized actor (Westworld, etc.) and when he showed up I was intrigued... then his character was killed off pretty quickly in the episode.  After that, I figured that his character's backstory would be explored in another episode.  We are down to the last episode next week and it appears no such thing will be happening - he had less than 10 minutes of screen time in the whole series.  What a waste.

[4Sibes Redux]

1 hour ago, patty1h said:

Clifton Collins, Jr.  This guy is a pretty recognized actor

He would have been an excellent Lloyd. 

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On 2/6/2021 at 12:26 PM, Keywestclubkid said:

LOL at the court reporter typing away at the trial .. thats all I am taking away from this horrible horrible episode 

This cracked me up ... I worked briefly (well, about a year) for a court reporter as a transcriptionist and I also laughed at that moment ... the second-funniest depiction I've seen (though perhaps not intentional in this case), after the John Oliver show that had ... OMG 8 YEARS AGO HOW DID THE TIME PASS? ... this amazingly awesome clip. 

If you don't feel like sitting through all of it, the moment I reference is at, I think (short-term memory retention issues) at 3:46. But hey, do yourself a favorite and watch all of it!
 

 

[IndyMischa]

This was by far the best (and the scariest) episode. Some of that was the focus on the one character I like and care about. Some of it was the suspense of not knowing what was going to happen. And some of it, not a small percentage, was the joy of it being over. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I'm still kind of processing it. It was certainly not what I was expecting. Considering they botched it terribly when they followed the novel, it might not be such a bad thing that they departed from it. 

ETA: Stephen King wrote the episode! 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Superclam

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, IndyMischa said:

This was by far the best (and the scariest) episode. Some of that was the focus on the one character I like and care about. Some of it was the suspense of not knowing what was going to happen. And some of it, not a small percentage, was the joy of it being over. 

I think that it definitely helped that there were not points of comparison to the book or the earlier miniseries, and that there were points that were interesting.

Things I liked about the final episode

1. More heavily leaning into the religion aspect of things

2. It seemed to handle focusing on just the two characters better than trying to cover an ensemble.

Things I didn't like:

1. More should have been made of the sacrifices of Larry, Ray and Glenn. 

2. I think the Last Temptation of Frannie wasn't executed all that well. (No pun intended). Why does her dumbass step on the well in the first place? It seems to me that in a post-apocalyptic setting, bottled water would be one of the things that would be in plentiful supply. Also, it bugs me that she actually did kiss Flagg. Yeah, she bit him at the end, but that in my book doesn't count as resisting temptation. Also, it seems like she should have been like, "Holy shit! Flagg survived the explosion! We better tell the people in the Free Zone! Or at least Stu." But nope, she keeps that, and that she saw Mother A again to herself. I also don't know if I love Daughter A, or Mother A 2.0 or whatever you want to call her.

3. There were a lot of people in Boulder that I didn't know who the heck they were. Maybe that's on me, though. 

4. The new RF reveal. In the book, RF walks up and is the under the radar sort of evil when he approaches to corrupt that tribe. He's like "I'm here to teach you civilization.." That is creepy and chilling! Here, being over the top and all like "WORSHIP ME!" was almost laughable. 

I almost wish there could be a remake of this remake where they got more space to do the character work and to show the rise of Captain Trips (which I would just have it be referred to as superflu). Like if they stole more from Lost and had whole episodes focused on Stu, Glenn, Larry, Frannie, Nadine, Lloyd, Nick etc. etc. instead of a few scenes. Or if they captured the post-apocalyptic terror as well as The Walking Dead....

Anyway, we made it! We're free!

[Keywestclubkid]

why does this episode feel like its from a completely different show? would it have been so hard to have done this with the whole thing?

[txhorns79]

While I understand Frannie missing Maine, I don't understand wanting to return there with a new baby.  Boulder has power, people and safety.  Her town in Maine is dead in every sense of the word.  Even if they safely return, the town has no power, no running water, it's littered with decomposing dead bodies and food is likely scarce.  And that doesn't even get into going through a Maine winter alone and without a reliable source of heat.  If she or Stu become ill or incapacitated, they are screwed.  It just seems so crazy to me to try to return there to start a new life.    

[patty1h]

Just watched the finale.... it didn't end with a bang or a whimper. It ended with a snore and a "why did they bother".  That was so dismal and silly.    I feel cheated.  If I paid for CBS All Access, I'd feel even worse.

Stephen King wrote this ending?  Was any of this in the book/miniseries - reincarnated Abigail, Fran falling down a well, Flagg meeting a tribe?  It's been so long, I don't recall every detail now. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by patty1h