S07.E05: Holly's Story

[Hannah94]

28 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

Penny.  The most universally disliked 600 pound person on the history of the show.  (Seriously!)  Someone needs to hit her "upside the head" with a loaf of french bread.

While I agree she was highly unlikable, I would say the receiver of that "award" is a tie between James and Schenee.

[Hannah94]

2 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

OOOOOOOOOOO!!  I haven't seen either!  Now you are going to make me check out their shows!

Watch them ASAP! It's a fantastic trashy mess. You will not be disappointed, I promise. Every second is filled with drama. James K. (since there are more than one James on this show).

[Kyanight]

1 minute ago, Hannah94 said:

Watch them ASAP! It's a fantastic trashy mess. You will not be disappointed, I promise. Every second is filled with drama. James K. (since there are more than one James on this show).

Will do.  Then you will have to check out their threads, because I probably won't be able to help myself from commenting... (if they are more obnoxious than Penny!)

[calpurnia99]

In regard to laying around all day having someone else wait on you, they have to like it. It reminds me of when I was a kid. I loved being sick because I got to lay on the couch all day and watch TV and my mother was nice to me. Of course I didn't feel good, like these people don't feel well, but it was so great being home and laying around and having drinks brought to me!

[Hannah94]

7 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

Will do.  Then you will have to check out their threads, because I probably won't be able to help myself from commenting... (if they are more obnoxious than Penny!)

I follow both of their threads. And trust this - they will make Penny look like an angel. I think I am going to have to rewatch both of them tonight now!

[Colleenna]

38 minutes ago, Hannah94 said:

While I agree she was highly unlikable, I would say the receiver of that "award" is a tie between James and Schenee.

Schenee. With James K. a distant second.

[calpurnia99]

48 minutes ago, Colleenna said:

Schenee. With James K. a distant second.

That Lisa was a pc of work as well. Hit Me Daddy!  

[Mothra]

Queen dead-horse beater here.  On the question of whether/what food addiction is, many scientists believe in it, but notice:  they talk about being addicted to *certain foods*, specifically foods high in fat, salt and sugar.  Our poundticipants all seem addicted to massive quantities of fast food, not to massive quantities of avocado toast (whatever in hell *that* is.  I've heard of it).  Excerpts from a questionnaire used by Yale researchers to diagnose food addiction (bolding mine):

Do you:

End up eating more than planned when you start eating certain foods

Keep eating certain foods even if you're no longer hungry

Eat to the point of feeling ill

Worry about not eating certain types of foods or worry about cutting down on certain types of foods

When certain foods aren't available, go out of your way to obtain them

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/eating-disorders/binge-eating-disorder/mental-health-food-addiction#2

So I don't think it's helpful to label these people as having addiction to food.  They are not craving food in general.  They are addicted to *certain foods*, and those are the foods we most often see them wolfing down on the show.  Yes, I hear you:  "But drug addicts aren't all addicted to the same kinds of drugs," and you're right.  But it seems that food addicts are indeed addicted to the same kinds of foods, kinds of foods that are pretty immediately identifiable.  Studies mentioned at the same website point out that brain studies of so-called food addicts show the same kinds of neural responses, the same stimulation of dopamine and other "pleasure" chemicals as are elicited by heroin and cocaine in drug addicts.

I think the prospect of giving up fast food (and eggs, bacon and biscuits with sausage gravy) sends most poundticipants into that first phase of cheating once they've been given Dr. Now's diet.  And if the addiction is specifically to sugar, salt and fat, there's no way to incorporate massive amounts of those substances into a weight-loss program.  Even if you carefully measured out 1200 calories' worth of SS&F and limited yourself to that every day, if you are an addict, you won't be able to sustain because the nature of addiction is that there is never enough of the desired substance.  Plus, you wouldn't be getting a whole lot of food in terms of volume because of the caloric density.

What we need is an injectable substance that mimics the action SS&F have on the brain.  But then they'd probably overdose on that.

3 hours ago, Henri205 said:

Can we add to the Bingo Card?  “Me and (insert name here) went to (insert place here). Drives me nuts. Isn’t grammar taught?  

And you can flip it to using "I" when it should be "me"--"that taco looked really good to Roy and I."

I'd also add to the bingo card something about being afraid of not waking up after surgery.

[Kyanight]

31 minutes ago, Mothra said:

 

And you can flip it to using "I" when it should be "me"--"those 93 tacos looked really good to Roy and I."

I'd also add to the bingo card something about being afraid of not waking up after surgery.

 

I think EVERY single one of these people have coined that phrase, thinking they are spouting some unique emotion-drawing original thought.   Maybe a TLC sound man or camera man is holding up a cue card with that phrase written on it.  Just once I wish one of them would honestly say, "I am afraid of waking up after surgery and not being able to eat a tub of chocolate ice cream in the first hour after surgery."

And seriously - how is that any different from EVERY morning when you weigh more than three average weight grown men?  I would worry about whether or not I would wake up EVERY morning.    Better to die trying to better yourself, than never making the attempt at all.  Not just in this way, but any way.  (Obviously common sense and how dire the situation is comes into play here.)

[babyhouseman]

3 hours ago, Hannah94 said:

While I agree she was highly unlikable, I would say the receiver of that "award" is a tie between James and Schenee.

Steven Assanti was horrible. I think he's a psychopath.

[Hannah94]

5 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

Steven Assanti was horrible. I think he's a psychopath.

Oh my, I forgot about him! Yes! Can we do a poll here to see which pounder is the most disliked? It will be close between Steven, James K, and Schenee.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Hannah94

[Kyanight]

3 hours ago, calpurnia99 said:

In regard to laying around all day having someone else wait on you, they have to like it. It reminds me of when I was a kid. I loved being sick because I got to lay on the couch all day and watch TV and my mother was nice to me. Of course I didn't feel good, like these people don't feel well, but it was so great being home and laying around and having drinks brought to me!

I wouldn't mind that part, but having a relative wipe my butt just ONE time would humiliate me enough to get up and run a lap around the neighborhood I think.  lol

[Granny58]

5 hours ago, toodles said:

Penny was the Bestest Mom Ever right from her peepad bed. 

LOL

[Granny58]

2 hours ago, Mothra said:

And if the addiction is specifically to sugar, salt and fat,

I am currently reading the book entitled "Salt, Sugar, Fat."   It is about how those 3 ingredients are manipulated in processed foods and can become quite addictive.  They are absolutely necessary in order for the foods to taste good and have shelf stability, so there's no getting around that, but they try to find the sweet spot to keep you coming back for more.  Since this is a part of all mainstream processed foods (again, it is necessary) the way to break the habit seems to be cooking from scratch and fresh foods.   Frankly, I don't recall seeing any of the stories features people who crave cakes and pies.  They all seem to crave fats and ESPECIALLY salt.  

43 minutes ago, Hannah94 said:

Oh my, I forgot about him! Yes! Can we do a poll here to see which pounder is the most disliked? It will be close between Steven, James K, and Schenee.

I think Steve Assante was the worst.  

[CoachWristletJen]

On 1/31/2019 at 7:31 PM, Mothra said:

I think Holly said at one point that she was addicted to food, and I take your point that what's going on with her and food is comparable to a drug addiction.  But is it really food she's addicted to, or is it the feeling of the food in her mouth as she's eating it?  I guess that's true of drug addiction, too--it's not the drugs themselves but the feelings they induce.  I think of "food addiction," though, as a not necessarily bad thing.  There are people who love to eat, who love flavor and texture and "mouth feel," who travel the world looking for new tastes--I would call that a food addiction, not the frantic wolfing down of bland, salty, greasy *stuff* without texture or real interest that Holly did.    She wants to shove stuff in her mouth.  As many have said, she's infantile, a big baby demanding her pap.  Babies don't want texture or flavor; they want sweet, buttery, smooth--breast milk is like vanilla hot chocolate made with heavy cream--and they have to learn to accept food that must be actually tasted, chewed, savored.  Holly hasn't gotten to that developmental level with regard to what she eats.

It's semantics, I know, but I'm not comfortable accepting that she's "addicted" to food.  I think she's addicted to being a baby in every way she can manage, and maybe Dr. Baby Voice is exactly the therapist for her!

This makes so much sense. If she's hooked on the oral stuff, maybe a pacifier would help? Seems weird but if it would save her from a death by chocolate, maybe it would be the lesser of two evils.

At least she didn't reach the point where she had to be diapered and powdered like a baby although that would have been in her future had she not lost weight. Wonder how she would have responded?

Dr. Now was right about her pretending not to understand stuff so that people would give up on her. He had her number that's for sure.

[Mothra]

4 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I am currently reading the book entitled "Salt, Sugar, Fat."   It is about how those 3 ingredients are manipulated in processed foods and can become quite addictive.  They are absolutely necessary in order for the foods to taste good and have shelf stability, so there's no getting around that, but they try to find the sweet spot to keep you coming back for more.  Since this is a part of all mainstream processed foods (again, it is necessary) the way to break the habit seems to be cooking from scratch and fresh foods.   Frankly, I don't recall seeing any of the stories features people who crave cakes and pies.  They all seem to crave fats and ESPECIALLY salt.  

That's a great book!  I read it a couple of years ago and was shocked/not really shocked by the venality of the processed-foods industry.  And you're right--we don't see a lot of people craving just sweets (we do see them eat some); it's always that magic triad.  Which is the basis of fast food.

I read another paper online about the history of the idea of food addiction (apparently the scientific controversy is whether it's "food" addiction or "eating" addiction, for a lot of the reasons I've mentioned earlier) and the first time the term was used scientifically was before the advent of the ubiquity of fast food joints--now I've lost the page, but it was late '50's-early '60's--and the foods people claimed to be addicted to were things like wheat and corn, by which I'm guessing they mean baked goods.  I think it's significant that the massive and meteoric rise in the rate of obesity aligns perfectly with the massive and meteoric rise in the rate of acceptance of fast foods.  Before FS&S were immediately available, you did have to cook from scratch (mostly--even cake mixes are basically the same ingredients you'd use, with added preservatives), and there certainly were fat people around, but they were eating cakes and pies and cookies and candy and ice cream, not foods that you could pass off as a "meal."  And therein lies a big difference.

[CoachWristletJen]

23 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I think Steve Assante was the worst.  

Never cared much for Sean.

[Kyanight]

12 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

54 minutes ago, Hannah94 said:

Oh my, I forgot about him! Yes! Can we do a poll here to see which pounder is the most disliked? It will be close between Steven, James K, and Schenee.

 

I think Steve Assante was the worst.  

Oh no - now I have to watch ANOTHER show?  These people are exhausting and depressing!  I just got done with Shcenee's story!   Saw some recent pics - She was dressed very nicely but as large as an SUV.

 

5 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

At least she didn't reach the point where she had to be diapered and powdered like a baby although that would have been in her future had she not lost weight. Wonder how she would have responded?

They don't put this on the show (for OBVIOUS reasons)... but a LOT of these people simply cannot sit on toilets.   Many of the toilets are positioned between showers and cabinets, next to bathtubs, etc. and there is not enough room on each side for the fat to hang over and the person simply physically CANNOT balance themselves on the end of the toilet and still be positioned well enough for the poop to end up in the toilet.  Some of them are able to use a type of port-a-potty, but most potties cannot hold that large of weight.  So what many of them do (if they don't do poop pads) is sit on the side of the bathtub while hanging their butt over into the tub and let loose with their bowels.   Or they do it in the shower and push it down the drain.  But if they do it in the tub - can you freaking IMAGINE being the person who must muck out the tub?  HOW can you do that to your loved ones?  Sorry.  That was definitely TMI.

[CatherineM]

This is a small subset of people over 600 lbs., those willing to also humiliate themselves on tv. I was once over 600 lbs. I understand nutrition. I know how to read a label and normally use proper grammar. What I am is a compulsive overeater. I was never bed bound, but was headed there. I took care of my own hygiene, but I’m an addict. After years of therapy, working with Overeaters Anonymous, and hard work, I’m in recovery. You have to grow up first and stop blaming everyone else for your problems. I don’t see her doing any of that. 

[fonfereksglen]

On 1/31/2019 at 5:38 PM, Mothra said:

And this is far from the first time we've seen this--I think the majority of the families, while professing support, do not change their own eating habit, not even in front of the poundticipant.  And most of the families have pounds to lose, as well, some of them approaching the poundticipant's weight.   I think this unwillingness to face what we see as a difficult but certainly not insurmountable problem--not eating what they want, when they want--is at the heart of how some of these folks get so damned fat.  They really and truly do not understand or believe that what they eat determines what they weigh.  They pay lip service, sure, but most of them see no real reason to follow Dr. Now's strict diet to the letter--lots of talk about "finding the balance" and "everyone needs a reward".  They will I am sure recite to you what they should be eating, but they don't, in their heart of hearts, accept it as truth that if they keep eating as they have been they will not only not lose weight but will maybe die.

A lot of the overweight people I know, including me, understand about metabolism and caloric intake and limiting carbs.  We know to read labels, that sugar hides under many names, that "total carbs" is an important number.  None of the poundticipants seems to know about any of this, and I don't get it.  How could you be massively overweight for most of your life and not spend some time and effort trying to understand how food works in your body--even if you don't plan to do anything about it?

Olivia's family loved her nearly to death.  The pizza party in her basement apartment is frozen in my mind.  And when she moved to Houston, she did dispair over the bad food her extended family ate around her while she lost over 400 lbs.  Her family helped her in other ways than changing their eating habit, and Olivia coped.

Just one example where the patient coped, rather than quit.

[princelina]

4 hours ago, calpurnia99 said:

In regard to laying around all day having someone else wait on you, they have to like it. It reminds me of when I was a kid. I loved being sick because I got to lay on the couch all day and watch TV and my mother was nice to me. Of course I didn't feel good, like these people don't feel well, but it was so great being home and laying around and having drinks brought to me!

I like it as a treat - I can't imagine making a life out of it though!

[Hellga]

Dr. Now gave a reason why most people don't start therapy until after the surgery:  they don't realize there is an emotional component to their eating until physical drive to eat is removed.  If people are resistant to the very idea, psychotherapy probably isn't going to help them much... but with those who are more self-aware, I don't see why he wouldn't try it early..  I am still not buying that Holly really "got it" and isn't just playing along to get her surgery, but at least it got her some progress, and every hundred pounds matters when you are 600+ pounds.

The way Lola was saying... the way you deserve to be treated - what Holly deserves is a motivating kick upside her big fat lazy butt!  But at least Lola was able to put personal accountability in there somehow.  I guess that is a valid strategy - stroke a patient's ego enough so they at least have a chance to hear what they need to hear instead of shutting out all advice entirely...  Though Holly seems to have taken away only "you need to stand up for yourself".   But on the other hand, she did seem to lose more after starting therapy, so maybe something did sink in.  

And in her interpretation "Ray has to give me more affection".  What about HER giving him some affection?  In two hours of screen time I do not recall her giving anything to anyone, not even honest words or a friendly ear!   I wonder if Ray doesn't love her all that much but just would feel bad if he just abandoned her.  Two people feeding off one another's neuroticism more than any genuine affection between them...

[Minivanessa]

2 minutes ago, Hellga said:

And in her interpretation "Ray has to give me more affection".  What about HER giving him some affection?  In two hours of screen time I do not recall her giving anything to anyone, not even honest words or a friendly ear!   I wonder if Ray doesn't love her all that much but just would feel bad if he just abandoned her.  Two people feeding off one another's neuroticism more than any genuine affection between them...

I also saw someone who's 100% a taker, never a giver. She's 38 years old going on nine - I was going to write "nine years," but sometimes her immaturity was almost infantile, more like "nine months."

Her voiceover was just all full of how she must be taken care of, can't be alone in the house "in case something happens to me," everybody else's job is to be sure she gets her many meals, etc. Dr. Now had her number, and one of the things he told her was that she had to stop acting like a child. I laughed out loud when Dr. Lola uttered the phrase "personal responsibility" to Holly. The only thing Holly's responsible for is to get everyone in her orbit to dance attendance on her.

Hell, even the way she talked about her first husband just grated. He was in the military and went off to serve in the Mideast (Iraq? Afghanistan?), and came home with PTSD. Her description of that was so childish and self-centered. I didn't get the idea that she had any capacity for, or interest in, helping him to cope with his problems. It was just, poor Holly.

So in the last few minutes of this episode we saw this swirling vortex of immature selfishness lose quite a bit of weight post-surgery and make a for-the-camera visit to some place (gym? I don't remember). I'm not sold that she's turned a corner, unless her enablers have really changed their attitudes and behavior, permanently.  

[mmecorday]

If I ate that much at night, I wouldn't be able to sleep, and I'm not morbidly obese. And I'm thinking the midnight suppers are not an occasional thing -- Holly's fiance brings home fast food every night after he gets off work. It looked like she consumed two roast beef sandwiches and an order of loaded curly fries. I would be burping all night! But she doesn't work so she doesn't have to worry about getting enough rest.

I noticed on the rewatch tonight what you all were saying about Holly extending her tongue before taking a bite. Nasty! It's bad enough when people chew with their mouths open.

[Twopper]

2 hours ago, Mothra said:

I read another paper online about the history of the idea of food addiction (apparently the scientific controversy is whether it's "food" addiction or "eating" addiction, for a lot of the reasons I've mentioned earlier) and the first time the term was used scientifically was before the advent of the ubiquity of fast food joints--now I've lost the page, but it was late '50's-early '60's--and the foods people claimed to be addicted to were things like wheat and corn, by which I'm guessing they mean baked goods.  I think it's significant that the massive and meteoric rise in the rate of obesity aligns perfectly with the massive and meteoric rise in the rate of acceptance of fast foods.  Before FS&S were immediately available, you did have to cook from scratch (mostly--even cake mixes are basically the same ingredients you'd use, with added preservatives), and there certainly were fat people around, but they were eating cakes and pies and cookies and candy and ice cream, not foods that you could pass off as a "meal."  And therein lies a big difference.

Very interesting.  I consider myself a glutton when it comes to brownies, ice cream, thin mints, cake, cobblers, pies and red hots.    Another instance in which I am behind the times. 

I  cannot quite wrap my head around how people get to weight 600+ lbs ( or for that matter over 400 unless they are really tall).  I fluctuate between normal weight and about 50 pounds overweight depending upon my predisone intake and activity level.   But once I hit the 50 pound overweight  my body revolts, and I lose my appetite.  Also I feel very uncomfortable despite being able to do normal stuff.  I feel like my body would explode if I were 100 lbs overweight.    When I was growing up in the dark ages, we had about 75 kids in our class; there was one slightly plump boy and one fat girl; all of the rest of us were thin.  Today the boy would be considered normal and the girl would be considered plump.  I find the changes over the last 50 years so shocking.

Unless we are traveling, I would guess we might do fast food once a month.  I will confess that we did more before the nest was empty, but I did do a lot of from scratch cooking.   Much less now as I tend to buy a rotisserie chicken and bagged salad, then go home and add tomatoes to the salad and cook a  few ears of corn and call it dinner.   The family says I don't fix dinner I assemble it.    I also use the crockpot a lot for red beans or fiesta chicken or a Mississippi roast.  Apologies if I have made any one feel hungry. 

[Colleenna]

1 hour ago, Twopper said:

Very interesting.  I consider myself a glutton when it comes to brownies, ice cream, thin mints, cake, cobblers, pies and red hots.    Another instance in which I am behind the times. 

I  cannot quite wrap my head around how people get to weight 600+ lbs ( or for that matter over 400 unless they are really tall).  I fluctuate between normal weight and about 50 pounds overweight depending upon my predisone intake and activity level.   But once I hit the 50 pound overweight  my body revolts, and I lose my appetite.  Also I feel very uncomfortable despite being able to do normal stuff.  I feel like my body would explode if I were 100 lbs overweight.    When I was growing up in the dark ages, we had about 75 kids in our class; there was one slightly plump boy and one fat girl; all of the rest of us were thin.  Today the boy would be considered normal and the girl would be considered plump.  I find the changes over the last 50 years so shocking.

Unless we are traveling, I would guess we might do fast food once a month.  I will confess that we did more before the nest was empty, but I did do a lot of from scratch cooking.   Much less now as I tend to buy a rotisserie chicken and bagged salad, then go home and add tomatoes to the salad and cook a  few ears of corn and call it dinner.   The family says I don't fix dinner I assemble it.    I also use the crockpot a lot for red beans or fiesta chicken or a Mississippi roast.  Apologies if I have made any one feel hungry. 

The hubs and I went out for the first time in 6 months last weekend. Is Panera considered fast food? Anyhow, we each had their 10-vegetable soup (45 calories in the cup size) and I had half a Mediterranean Vegetable sandwich (220 calories). Hubs had a whole MV sandwich. That was our "fast food" excursion for the first half of the year. I'm still working at getting this last 30# off --- and I'm winning. 

;-)

[zillabreeze]

4 hours ago, Granny58 said:

am currently reading the book entitled "Salt, Sugar, Fat."   It is about how those 3 ingredients are manipulated in processed foods and can become quite addictive.

There is so much truth there!  I've fought my weight forever.  When I keep a truthful food/mood log it confirms.  I can have fast food burger, o rings, and a shake.  Easily 1500 Cal's.  2 hours later, I'm STARVING.  

If I have a lean protein, veg, and a whole grain starch, 400 Cal's, I'm full for the night.

There is definitely an addictive chemistry for these folks.  The more they rely on the fast food diet, the more it becomes the norm.  One good healthy meal won't fix it.  Just a couple of weeks of good food might actually help.

As often discussed here, if the frig was only stocked with good stuff, and the enablers would shut it down, they might have a fighting chance .

Nobody ever got fat on fish & broccoli.

Edited February 2, 2019 by zillabreeze

[newyawk]

"I don't know/I'm unsure/I don't know/I'm unsure/I don't know/I'm unsure/I don't know/I'm unsure/I don't know.."

 

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

[Kyanight]

25 minutes ago, zillabreeze said:

There is so much truth there!  I've fought my weight forever.  When I keep a truthful food/mood log it confirms.  I can have fast food burger, o rings, and a shake.  Easily 1500 Cal's.  2 hours later, I'm STARVING.  

If I have a lean protein, veg, and a whole grain starch, 400 Cal's, I'm full for the night.

There is definitely an addictive chemistry for these folks.  The more they rely on the fast food diet, the more it becomes the norm.  One good healthy meal won't fix it.  Just a couple of weeks of good food might actually help.

As often discussed here, if the frig was only stocked with good stuff, and the enablers would shut it down, they might have a fighting chance .

Nobody ever got fat on fish & broccoli.

When going on the South Beach diet you have 2 weeks where you clear out ALL sugar completely, as well as a lot of fruits, white starches, potatoes, etc.  Ditto when you eat Paleo.  I have done both.    I am not bringing this up to tout any weight loss diet but just to make the point that if you can cut ALL of that out of your diet for 2 weeks - the cravings leave.  The first week is the toughest, but then you learn to really enjoy fresh and wholesome foods.  Damn that sounded corny.  Sorry, but I keep thinking if there was some way to totally cut out all of that crap from their diets they MIGHT lose the cravings.  Even when they are in the hospital on this show they are eating jello (like every episode almost) - and even sugar free - it's still got artificial sweeteners.   Either that or their stupid enablers are sneaking crap in for them to snark.  Watching Schenee I kept thinking if they could ban all visitors, she wouldn't have had her pizza.  But I guess that's pretty cruel to deny visitors, even if it might save your life in the long run.

[zillabreeze]

2 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

When going on the South Beach diet you have 2 weeks where you clear out ALL sugar completely, as well as a lot of fruits, white starches, potatoes, etc.  Ditto when you eat Paleo. 

There is an episode of "Adam Ruins Everything" where he talks about how the sugar industry caused the whole "fat is the devil" lowfat revolution. "Fat-free" became the holy Grail but loaded with sugar.  

Back to someone up thread. .. how are you ginormous and not know the basics of calories & carbs?

You're laying on your pee pad, WISHING you could lose weight and ...

Damn!  Google has NOTHING on weight loss, nutrition...

[Kenzie]

5 hours ago, Kyanight said:

Oh no - now I have to watch ANOTHER show?  These people are exhausting and depressing!  I just got done with Shcenee's story!   Saw some recent pics - She was dressed very nicely but as large as an SUV.

 

They don't put this on the show (for OBVIOUS reasons)... but a LOT of these people simply cannot sit on toilets.   Many of the toilets are positioned between showers and cabinets, next to bathtubs, etc. and there is not enough room on each side for the fat to hang over and the person simply physically CANNOT balance themselves on the end of the toilet and still be positioned well enough for the poop to end up in the toilet.  Some of them are able to use a type of port-a-potty, but most potties cannot hold that large of weight.  So what many of them do (if they don't do poop pads) is sit on the side of the bathtub while hanging their butt over into the tub and let loose with their bowels.   Or they do it in the shower and push it down the drain.  But if they do it in the tub - can you freaking IMAGINE being the person who must muck out the tub?  HOW can you do that to your loved ones?  Sorry.  That was definitely TMI.

Watching Steven Assante on a dark and stormy night with the lights out would qualify as a horror movie.

[CoachWristletJen]

9 hours ago, mmecorday said:

If I ate that much at night, I wouldn't be able to sleep, and I'm not morbidly obese. And I'm thinking the midnight suppers are not an occasional thing -- Holly's fiance brings home fast food every night after he gets off work. It looked like she consumed two roast beef sandwiches and an order of loaded curly fries. I would be burping all night! But she doesn't work so she doesn't have to worry about getting enough rest.

I noticed on the rewatch tonight what you all were saying about Holly extending her tongue before taking a bite. Nasty! It's bad enough when people chew with their mouths open.

I definitely can't sleep when I eat a lot of fat, sugar and carbs. And my definition of "a lot" isn't a drop in the bucket compared to these folks! I can only guess they get used to it somehow. Also, they are probably well fatigued from being underneath the grinding weight of the heavy machinery that is their bodies.

7 hours ago, Colleenna said:

The hubs and I went out for the first time in 6 months last weekend. Is Panera considered fast food? Anyhow, we each had their 10-vegetable soup (45 calories in the cup size) and I had half a Mediterranean Vegetable sandwich (220 calories). Hubs had a whole MV sandwich. That was our "fast food" excursion for the first half of the year. I'm still working at getting this last 30# off --- and I'm winning. 

;-)

I really like Panera and they have some very good options there, IMHO. Of course I have to stay away from their pastries and bread. That side bread is delicious. Especially warmed up in the microwave with some Land O'Lakes "fake" butter....  *sigh*

[Mothra]

9 hours ago, Twopper said:

Very interesting.  I consider myself a glutton when it comes to brownies, ice cream, thin mints, cake, cobblers, pies and red hots.    Another instance in which I am behind the times. 

I  cannot quite wrap my head around how people get to weight 600+ lbs ( or for that matter over 400 unless they are really tall).  I fluctuate between normal weight and about 50 pounds overweight depending upon my predisone intake and activity level.   But once I hit the 50 pound overweight  my body revolts, and I lose my appetite.  Also I feel very uncomfortable despite being able to do normal stuff.  I feel like my body would explode if I were 100 lbs overweight.    When I was growing up in the dark ages, we had about 75 kids in our class; there was one slightly plump boy and one fat girl; all of the rest of us were thin.  Today the boy would be considered normal and the girl would be considered plump.  I find the changes over the last 50 years so shocking.

Unless we are traveling, I would guess we might do fast food once a month.  I will confess that we did more before the nest was empty, but I did do a lot of from scratch cooking.   Much less now as I tend to buy a rotisserie chicken and bagged salad, then go home and add tomatoes to the salad and cook a  few ears of corn and call it dinner.   The family says I don't fix dinner I assemble it.    I also use the crockpot a lot for red beans or fiesta chicken or a Mississippi roast.  Apologies if I have made any one feel hungry. 

I think we're of an age because my story is a lot like yours.  We never buy fast food any more--in fact, the ads on tv kind of make me sick to my stomach--but when our kids were small, too often the drive-thru was too easy to pass up.  So that was my contribution to the obesity epidemic.

When I was in school, one girl in my class must've weighed 100 lbs. in the first grade, and she was the only notably overweight person I knew right up through high school.  She was a "menopause baby," unexpected and born after her siblings were in their 20s.  Her family owned a neighborhood store, and I once heard my mother say that when this girl's mother made a cake, she had to make a separate one for this little girl "or else she cried."  More likely, I think, is that her parents worked in their store full time and she was there on her own without supervision, with access to candy and other treats to keep her quiet and happy while they worked.  I saw her years later at my father's funeral, and she was still grossly obese--literally, a square body with a head on it.

I truly think that fast food must bear the blame for the number of really, really fat people who exist now.  I don't know what the solution is; my son't generation thinks nothing of dropping money on eating out--although they spurn fast food joints--so that home cooking must be on the decline except for hobbyists.  In so many families, both adults work full-time (when I was in grade school, only one mother worked outside the home--and we all knew it), so it's not realistic to expect things to revert to how they were when we were growing up.  I guess the "box dinner kits" are a step in the right direction, but they are too expensive for almost anyone to live on.  Practices like cooking on weekends for the entire week would be tough, too, and I don't think I could have done it.  Maybe a new class of service workers, dinner makers, will arise out of this obesity crisis--someone who will come to your house in the afternoon and fix dinner so that you just have to heat it up; or maybe it will be like the people who pack lunches and sell them on Indian trains.  I long for the day when it's hard to find a McDonald's.

[ethalfrida]

Rewatched and saw the sticking out the tongue thing... yes, it is annoying and it does look somewhat like Prather Willie.

I knew a young man who weighed 350 pounds in 6th grade. He was also very tall and could have played high school Varsity football. As I was his baby sitter we never challenged him or any of the other kids on how much they ate. Simply served the meals and snacks and when in reasonable portions and was done with it. Seconds were allowed but not on desserts. But usually they had a respect for the portions they were given because meals consisted of protein, vegetables and carbs.

Anyway, his mom never said he could not eat as much as he wanted. Five pounds of sugar would disappear before the next grocery shopping was done. She didn't deny him because he had been without oxygen a bit during birth and the doctor said he would be a slow learner. He never ever had to do anything at all. Except, after high school, he became a long shoreman and has been for last 20 years or say. He graducated because his high school instructors were afraid of him and passed him because he was such a large kid. When he was an adult he came by and thanked our family for teaching him so many things and said it had been the best time of his life to have been here.

Is he still a large person? No.... he developed other interests like dating and restoring classic cars...

From what Holly has said she was never told no, didn't have to do anything but eat. Unless a kid has something like Prather Willie where they will become uncontrollable saying no, yhou have had enough and no to junk food will only help them set boundaries.

[Granny58]

13 hours ago, zillabreeze said:

Nobody ever got fat on fish & broccoli.

that's what I told my mom (we discuss this show)....you never see anybody bringing them apples.

[KateHearts]

On 2/1/2019 at 11:39 AM, cpcathy said:

"We're not set up to cook" was a HUGE excuse. Shrug shoulders, whoops! Can't cook, need to order Chinese! Even the suggestions above of Goodwill or other thrift stores are great ones, those stores are everywhere, they must have passed a couple! Holly knew she didn't want to cook healthy food so she did not.

Exactly. We, as outsiders, need to realize that, as someone else pointed out, this is pathological behavior.  Just like the hoarders who can't toss out their dirty toilet paper, or the addicts who pump Mom for "grocery money" that will be injected into their veins an hour later.  We hear a myriad of excuses from all of these people, the most frequent that baffles me which is: "I have been really stressed (because my relationship is on the rocks, because I'm moving, because my son is acting up, etc) so I CAN'T FOLLOW THE DIET."  If there is any way to get out of it, they will make an excuse. And we are all here with big question marks over our heads thinking, "what about bringing a pan? What about buying a rotisserie chicken? What the hell is so stressful that you have to go to the drive-thru instead of tossing a bag of lettuce into a bowl? " It doesn't make sense. It will never make sense. These people are, more often than not, irrational and irresponsible when it comes to their food decisions.

So then we hear them telling Dr. Now how they eat toast and sugar free jelly, or they say (after having a weight gain)- "I've done really good! I might have slipped up once or twice..."

Edited February 2, 2019 by KateHearts

[KateHearts]

21 hours ago, Hannah94 said:

While I agree she was highly unlikable, I would say the receiver of that "award" is a tie between James and Schenee.

OH, have we already forgotten about Steven Assanti?

[CrazyInAlabama]

Agreed, Steven Assanti was hateful, but so were Schenee, James K and Lisa, and the other Lisa (the patient who died), and all of the ones who took the space of a person who would have tried to follow the program, but didn't make it for the drama that these others brought to the show.

Holly is what happens when the mom feeds them constantly, and that's their only interaction with anyone.     The pictures show she was always huge, and I'm sure the day of her eating from early, until after midnight was typical of her intake of food.     I thought it was funny when Holly came home, and Mom, Ray, and Holly were all the same shape and size.    Since Holly ate through her stomach stapling, then I have zero faith that she won't defeat this operation too.   Unless the dumping syndrome (don't Google it unless you want to be nauseous, it's when you get really sick from overeating with a gastric bypass) discourages her.  

[Granny58]

I still don't understand how, if you start out at 30,000 calories a day and don't adhere to 1200 a day but still perhaps cut out 10,000 calories, why they don't lose weight.  What am I missing?  

[Twopper]

3 hours ago, Granny58 said:

still don't understand how, if you start out at 30,000 calories a day and don't adhere to 1200 a day but still perhaps cut out 10,000 calories, why they don't lose weight.  What am I missing?  

This would only make the person gain at a slower rate.   If they weighed 2000 pounds and were sedentary , they would neither gain nor lose at 20,000 calories a day.

 I read an article in Prevention Magazine that said a sedentary individual needs 10 calories per day per pound to maintain weight.     Assuming a weight of 600 pounds, if Holly  were eating 6000 calories she would stay at the same weight.   If she ate 3000 calories a day, her weight loss would be about one pound per day which would be 30 pounds per month, and, if I recall correctly, Dr Now requires a 50 pound weight loss.  

There was a documentary a few years back (well, maybe 8-10 years ago) where they showed a very super obese Englishman who did eat about 20,000- 30,000 calories per day.  I doubt Holly is any where near that; I would guess more like an average of 6200-6500  which would allows her to put gain between 25-50 pounds per year,

I hope this isn't too confusing; the figures are reasonable estimates.

Also the sedentary person in the article was probably a person who drove to work and sat all day at a desk and did no exercise so Holly might even need only 8-9 calories per pound

I would really like to see the diet Dr Now sends his patients home with.  

[newyawk]

14 hours ago, Twopper said:

 

I would really like to see the diet Dr Now sends his patients home with.  

I found this posted on another site, someone said they got it straight from Dr. now:  

 

Also here is a page that supplies a list of foods given to Season 6's L.B. Bonner: https://www.distractify.com/entertainment/2018/08/09/Z2kAKCF/dr-now-600-lb-life-diet-plan

Edited February 3, 2019 by newyawk

[PrincessPurrsALot]

The plan above says "No sugar free jam".  What will Holly do? Her sugar free jam commitment is strong.

[Concerned]

Wasn’t there sugar on spaghetti?

[Kyanight]

4 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

The plan above says "No sugar free jam".  What will Holly do? Her sugar free jam commitment is strong.

HA HA HA HA HA!!  Love it!    I have a feeling that Dr. Now added sugar free jam to the "not allowed" food list AFTER he met Holly.  He figured if a little sugar free jam on toast could make a person gain that much in a month's time, it had better be banned!

[Twopper]

5 hours ago, Concerned said:

Wasn’t there sugar on spaghetti?

Yuck!!!!! I missed that.  

[hannah2000]

On 1/31/2019 at 1:30 PM, sara1025 said:

She doesn't quite seem quite all there mentally, though. The way she speaks and how her face looks, it sounds like she has trouble comprehending basic information. When her mom was asking her how many hamburgers she wanted, her eyes were half closed and it looked like she was thinking way too hard about that lol.

I also thought it was interesting when her mom was saying goodbye, Holly was looking at her like a toddler looks at their mom when being dropped off at their first day of preschool. She's very child like.

OMG yes!! The way she was looking up at her mother like a big overgrown demented toddler!! She is extremely childlike. Dr Now sure stopped that behavior in its tracks in his office. 

19 hours ago, newyawk said:

I found this posted on another site, someone said they got it straight from Dr. now:  

 

Also here is a page that supplies a list of foods given to Season 6's L.B. Bonner: https://www.distractify.com/entertainment/2018/08/09/Z2kAKCF/dr-now-600-lb-life-diet-plan

I liked L.B. and his mother. I loved her accent, I could hear her talk all day long! LOL

[Trees]

On 2/1/2019 at 4:19 PM, calpurnia99 said:

In regard to laying around all day having someone else wait on you, they have to like it. It reminds me of when I was a kid. I loved being sick because I got to lay on the couch all day and watch TV and my mother was nice to me. Of course I didn't feel good, like these people don't feel well, but it was so great being home and laying around and having drinks brought to me!

Lucky you!  Anyone got sick, Mom was mad as hell and absolutely resentful of having to take care of us.  It was a struggle for me to unlearn how my mom behaved when my own kids got sick.

Back to the show: seems like the last few episodes they now include (why?) the person sitting on the toilet!  Nobody needs to see this!  I was already fast-forwarding my DVR over the shower scenes and now these folks have to degrade themselves on the toilet, too?

I thought I was going to vomit seeing this one lean over to expose her nasty backside for this man to wipe.  That's some sick dynamic those 2 have for not-relatives and not-married.  Why seek out and stay with a woman whose butt you need to wipe? 

But shame on the show producers.  Being naked in the shower is bad enough.  Don't make those people sit on the toilet.  We, the viewing public, truly do not wish to see this.

[Trees]

On 2/1/2019 at 9:39 PM, Jeeves said:

I also saw someone who's 100% a taker, never a giver. She's 38 years old going on nine - I was going to write "nine years," but sometimes her immaturity was almost infantile, more like "nine months."

Her voiceover was just all full of how she must be taken care of, can't be alone in the house "in case something happens to me," everybody else's job is to be sure she gets her many meals, etc. Dr. Now had her number, and one of the things he told her was that she had to stop acting like a child. I laughed out loud when Dr. Lola uttered the phrase "personal responsibility" to Holly. The only thing Holly's responsible for is to get everyone in her orbit to dance attendance on her.

Hell, even the way she talked about her first husband just grated. He was in the military and went off to serve in the Mideast (Iraq? Afghanistan?), and came home with PTSD. Her description of that was so childish and self-centered. I didn't get the idea that she had any capacity for, or interest in, helping him to cope with his problems. It was just, poor Holly.

So in the last few minutes of this episode we saw this swirling vortex of immature selfishness lose quite a bit of weight post-surgery and make a for-the-camera visit to some place (gym? I don't remember). I'm not sold that she's turned a corner, unless her enablers have really changed their attitudes and behavior, permanently.  

Agree.  And I literally fast-forwarded over all of this one's voiceovers.  They read the same script every show.  "My life is riding on this.  I HAVE TO succeed.  This is my last chance.  I am going to [do xyz] BECAUSE [xyz]."  Some are more whiny than others. I knew from the get-go that this one would have absolutely nothing worthwhile in a voiceover.

[ethalfrida]

13 minutes ago, Trees said:

Back to the show: seems like the last few episodes they now include (why?) the person sitting on the toilet!  Nobody needs to see this!  I was already fast-forwarding my DVR over the shower scenes and now these folks have to degrade themselves on the toilet, too?

But shame on the show producers.  Being naked in the shower is bad enough.  Don't make those people sit on the toilet.  We, the viewing public, truly do not wish to see this.

I was really trying to find the words for this. Thank you...

[Twopper]

On 2/3/2019 at 10:10 AM, newyawk said:

Also here is a page that supplies a list of foods given to Season 6's L.B. Bonner: https://www.distractify.com/entertainment/2018/08/09/Z2kAKCF/dr-now-600-lb-life-diet-plan

Thanks for this, and for Dr Now's diet plan.   I would find it difficult,  even if my entire family was eating that way.  I think the only way to do it is the way AA approaches abstinence for alcohol--one day at a time.     I don't always give up a food for Lent, but that is my approach when I do.

Mentioning AA reminded me of Overeaters Anonymous ---I wonder why ;-) 

Anyway, I would think joining an Overeaters group after the surgery might be beneficial since someone mentioned the therapy they get from the WLS therapists is very limited.

I would also suggest they take up a hobby like knitting or needlepoint to keep the hands busy so they can't stuff their faces so easily.   It is so easy to eat while watching tv or reading online.

We only eat at the table except for snacks during a football game--one bag of popcorn and a beer or coke. 

I am not a perfect eater;  we both need to lose weigh.       My cat is of normal weight, and we leave her food out 24/7.  I am not sure if that means anything except that one doesn't need to eat just because the food is there.   Also I couldn't afford to eat the way many of these people do.   Well, I guess I could afford it, but then I couldn't afford the theater tickets we buy or travel or go to fancy restaurants from time to time.