S07.E05: Holly's Story

[WonTon]

If you drank every time she mentioned “my cravings” you’d have been effing poop-faced by the end of this episode. And there is no way she keeping the weight off. I bet she’s blown through the bypass already.

[Twopper]

5 hours ago, calpurnia99 said:

The way she said she was starving after eating that ginormous plate for breakfast! Honey you are not starving. You have 600 pounds of food on you. 

A lot of the people on this show are shown consuming hundreds if not thousands of calories a day in liquid form--sweet tea or colas--but I never noticed her drinking a lot so I wonder if part of the problem is she is dehydrated and she conflates feelings of thirst with hunger.   Sometimes if I think I am hungry but drink a glass of water instead, the hunger thoughts go away (I really need to do this more often).  The other issue is that she is almost certainly malnourished in the sense of not getting proper nutrition.  I recall one show with a super obese man who was unable to leave the house, and he ended up with rickets because he didn't go out into the  sunshine(he couldn't get out the door) and he didn't consume vitamin D in dairy products or pill form (which he could have). 

She really has zero initiative.   Some people that size allow themselves to be bedridden which she didn't, and she was able to walk  around the house without too much trouble except she probably got winded easily, but she could move her legs and she wasn't troubled by those horrid lymphodemas.  There was a ramp at the house which she could have walked up and down for several minutes a day.  She could have done that several times a day and built up her stamina. When the dr told her she needed to do better with her stamina so it didn't take 4 days for the trip, she and her "fiance/feeder/enabler/butt wiper" should have started practicing.  Drive somewhere for an hour one Saturday, get out and stretch your legs for a few minutes, then return home.  Next week drive for 90 minutes and repeat.  Do that until you can stay in the car 7-8 hours.  I don't think Dr N would be upset if they divided the trip into two days.

I still do not understand not putting her into therapy asap.   I know he tends to wait until after the surgery, but this is not a first time WLS patient.  Anyone who gains back that much weight after WLS has problems that need work.  Maybe not in Ellijay, but she should have been in therapy in Houston within the first few days.  

I hate to speculate on her childhood, but something must have gone on that was really dark when she was very little.  I didn't hear anything about sibs, so I guess she is an only.  Her parents fought, but the question is What did they fight about and Why?    Anyone remember Billy, the half-ton teenager whose mom overfed and indulged him supposedly to make up for her feelings of loss for the baby that died before Billy was born?

I am sure she rehearsed the scene with her mom before filming.  Her mother probably didn't want to be filmed at all.  Speaking of rehearsed, there were a number of times when she was explaining her behaviour that it sounded like she was reading from a script. 

[Kyanight]

28 minutes ago, Mothra said:

It's semantics, I know, but I'm not comfortable accepting that she's "addicted" to food.  I think she's addicted to being a baby in every way she can manage,

There is something I've wondered about when watching a lot of these people's 600 pound stories.  Will-power is certainly a factor, as is appetite.  Obviously the TYPE of food eaten (usually fast and convenient and sugary) is a given.   But how big of a role does the need to be "babied" and taken CARE of, play into this?  Well - perhaps not initially, because as the person gets larger and larger, I don't think they deliberately intend on having someone wait on them hand and foot.  But AFTER they become immobile and bedridden - although yes, they are in pain and miserable because of the weight - do they secretly fear becoming thinner and mobile because then they will have to "grow up" and take on NUMEROUS responsibilities?   When you loll around in bed all day, you have zero responsibilities other than bending your elbow and placing fork/spoon/food into your mouth.  Perhaps clicking the channel changer.  Maybe turning the lap top on and off.  You don't have to get up and go to work and earn money to pay the mortgage/rent, buy food, utilities, cell phone (I noticed most of them have one!) car expenses or any of the other myriad of expenses that come from living in our modern world.  No bed time (How I would love THAT, being a night owl!) and no set time you have to get up.  An enabler (and they ALL have one or more!) to wait on them hand and foot.  "Bring me the _________!"  "I'm hungry! Get me some food!"  <~~~  How many times have we heard THAT said when watching this show?  When you are immobile you don't have to do the dishes, vacuum the carpet, scrub floors/toilet/counter/bathtub, do laundry, ANY other household tasks, or even run errands.  Someone will do literally EVERYTHING for you, while you watch TV, play on your computer and eat junk food and drink gallons of soda.   I am wondering if these people actually have a mental illness, just like hoarders do - who cannot even throw garbage away sometimes and live with bugs and mice.  Counseling can help - but I think it will always be an issue and something that must always be dealt with.  (My mum was a hoarder.)   I am wondering if this is true and many of these people are actually mentally ill and not just dealing with lingering self-esteem issues/trauma from childhood - wouldn't this explain why so few of them actually succeed in becoming mobile and independent in this series?  CAN they succeed? 

If any of you remember Penny, it was watching her story where I first started thinking along these lines.  She wanted the surgery and had the surgery.  And then wouldn't do a darn thing as far as diet and exercise.   FOUR YEARS after the show her husband started a Gofundme so that he could stay home and take care of her all day (hope it's ok with the mods that I said this - it's on Google!) and it only made $200 and upset viewers who had seen the show.  My POINT in even bringing up that part is this:  FOUR years after the show aired she is still bedridden with no responsibilities and all of her needs taken care of FOR her.   She admitted to quitting her weight loss program and moving back home to Maryland. “It’s been a much more positive experience here without someone telling me I’m not doing a good job. I don’t feel the need to be on a scale because it doesn’t matter".  

 

I don't believe that anyone who DOESN'T have a form of mental illness would choose to be obese and bedridden after knowing how the experience has been in their past and having obtained weight loss surgery, (despite will power issues) just as I don't believe someone who doesn't have mental illness would choose to live in a house so full of junk and trash that they have to maneuver through pathways to get through the house and usually end up sleeping on the floor or a large chair somewhere - or a trailer in the yard.  (And don't care about bug and rodent infestations and sometimes dead animal carcasses in and around their hoards.)   Just my thoughts.  I wonder how many of Dr. Now's patients have true success?  I tried googling that question in many different ways and couldn't come up with any statistics.  Certainly many lose a considerable amount of weight in the first year or two - but what about 5 years down the road?  Ten?  How many ended up "blowing their staples" like Holly did?

[raiderred1]

My former {step} MIL used Fen Phen back in the day and paid the price of it with a very bad heart and lungs for so many years after the fact.  She died a few years ago and the pain she was in for the 4 years I knew her was horrible.  She did get a huge settlement from the pharma company but her first husband and kids blew through it in record time.  My FIL was very good to her for those short years she was alive late in both of their lives.  Both are gone but I am glad they found each other in their golden years.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Holly did have a sibling, there was a blurred out face in the childhood pictures.   

Long term success is less than 5% with WLS patients.    Some will lose, and never meet their goal.   Some lose a lot, and regain a great majority of their weight within five years.  

[Colleenna]

2 hours ago, RTS said:

Some people are just addicted to food (much like some people are just addicted to drugs or alcohol).  Holly struck me this way - her mom said that even as a baby she was always crying to be fed.  One of my coworker's son's was like this... they became so desperate that they literally chained the fridge shut because he would drink all the milk if that's all there was.

I'm surprised that the doctor doesn't immediately start people on a food diary.  Write down EVERYTHING YOU EAT.  The few times we've seen people do that on their own, they've tended to have success - I remember seeing one subject using My Fitness Pal.  Certainly when I'm tracking, I lose weight.. it lets you know when you've hit your limit for the day.

But addicts --- whether it's food, alcohol or another drug, or gambling --- lie. They lie to the people they love, and more importantly, they lie to themselves. Why wouldn't they lie to a food journal? 

[Hannah94]

2 minutes ago, Colleenna said:

But addicts --- whether it's food, alcohol or another drug, or gambling --- lie. They lie to the people they love, and more importantly, they lie to themselves. Why wouldn't they lie to a food journal? 

True. I cannot believe that she knew a camera crew was filming her eat those two enormous breakfasts and then had the nerve to say right to Dr. Now's face (again, in front of a camera crew filming her) that she ate toast with sugar free jam for breakfast. The bulb isn't vey bright in this one.

[joh]

20 hours ago, NeitherSparky said:

Haven’t read the live chat thread yet and I’m sure this was addresses a hundred times, but I just needed to get this out of my system:

Keep your goddamn tongue in your mouth when you eat!! Holy damn!! Are you a xenomorph? Are you trying to push your little mouth out so you can snatch your food off your fork so you can gobble it down faster? I’ve seen other show patients stick their tongues out when they eat but I swear this lady does it the most! Its sickening! :(

I’m sorry if that was mean, but it was soooo gross to watch.

hahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

21 hours ago, NeitherSparky said:

Haven’t read the live chat thread yet and I’m sure this was addresses a hundred times, but I just needed to get this out of my system:

Keep your goddamn tongue in your mouth when you eat!! Holy damn!! Are you a xenomorph? Are you trying to push your little mouth out so you can snatch your food off your fork so you can gobble it down faster? I’ve seen other show patients stick their tongues out when they eat but I swear this lady does it the most! Its sickening! :(

I’m sorry if that was mean, but it was soooo gross to watch.

20 hours ago, NeitherSparky said:

Haven’t read the live chat thread yet and I’m sure this was addresses a hundred times, but I just needed to get this out of my system:

Keep your goddamn tongue in your mouth when you eat!! Holy damn!! Are you a xenomorph? Are you trying to push your little mouth out so you can snatch your food off your fork so you can gobble it down faster? I’ve seen other show patients stick their tongues out when they eat but I swear this lady does it the most! Its sickening! :(

I’m sorry if that was mean, but it was soooo gross to watch.

[ZeldaZee]

I only just got the episode on Prime...I'm halfway through (Holly and Ray just moved down to Houston and got, surprise, Chinese). I may be coming off the Justin high of last week, but...I dunno, I'd like to like Holly, I don't think she's hopeless or evil or anything, but I just cannot warm to her at all. I know it sounds crazy but she had this little simpering smile at the first Dr. Now meeting that came across so self-satisfied (Meryl Streep has the same thing and I cannot stand that woman– hey, like I said, I know it sounds crazy).

Also, you guys just moved into an apartment with a BEAUTIFUL kitchen full of new appliances, you have a car and thus access to a grocery store, you have phones/computers to look up recipes (or at least order takeout), and you're "not really set up to cook"? Just how set up do you need to be?! I just moved and while 90% of my stuff is in a storage unit and will be for most of the year, I kept my wok, rice cooker/veg steamer and cast-iron frying pan in the few boxes I moved in to my new place.

These are just my thoughts based on what I've seen so far (I don't have TV so I never see these episodes live). Maybe I'll change my mind in the next 40 minutes. Again, Holly doesn't seem like a bad person and having being bullied for my weight as a child (I was 160lb at ~11) I do feel empathy for that...but while I don't actively dislike Holly, for some reason I have a really hard time fully rooting for her. There's just something about her that rubs me the wrong way and I can't place why.

[Kyanight]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

 Long term success is less than 5% with WLS patients.    Some will lose, and never meet their goal.   Some lose a lot, and regain a great majority of their weight within five years.  

That's right - I remember hearing Dr. Now say that more than once!  Thank you!   If even 5% of the people's lives are saved, it makes it worth it.

[ZeldaZee]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Holly did have a sibling, there was a blurred out face in the childhood pictures. 

I always wonder about the Blurred Relations in shows like this, "Intervention" etc. In so many of these shows the most tenuous family connection will have a talking-head commentary, and while I understand why someone wouldn't want to appear on a reality show (I'm a 90s-2000s reality show refugee, I remember Ozzy and Sharon Osbourne's eldest, Aimee, declined to ever be on The Osbournes) it lends a bit of, "so what don't we know?" to the whole affair. It's always made me wonder what their take on the family history is and whether they aren't distancing themselves from the "contestant/subject" for a reason.

Edited February 1, 2019 by ZeldaZee

[RTS]

2 hours ago, Colleenna said:

But addicts --- whether it's food, alcohol or another drug, or gambling --- lie. They lie to the people they love, and more importantly, they lie to themselves. Why wouldn't they lie to a food journal? 

True... But I think there's an element of self delusion in an addict's lies.... In the moment when they're satisfying their addiction people are like f this I'm eating. It's only later when the guilt and accountability set in that they lie.  Have you ever lied so hard that you believed it?  I have... it's surreal and very convincing.

Haha I sound like a psychopath but in elementary school I was disputing ownership of a sparkly pencil.  I really did own the pencil but it was my word against hers and that wasn't enough.  I spun a tearful lie about having borrowed it from my big sister that was so convincing I actually believed it while telling it.  The teacher secretly gave it back to me after school after confiscating it.  /End lame story 

Regardless it would be hilarious to compare the diary with the calories that dr. Now could deduce from their weight delta.

Edited February 1, 2019 by RTS

[Pretty5Vacant]

Dr. Now explaining that Holy "blew her staples out" had me rollin

[ZeldaZee]

1 hour ago, RTS said:

Regardless it would be hilarious to compare the diary with the calories that dr. Now could decide from their weight delta.

I've been wondering– and I say this as someone who's watched this show since Melissa– has anyone calculated just who ate the most of any of the subjects? Or even just tallied what they ate?

I watch a lot of BBC programing and "Supersize vs Superskinny" and "Secret Eaters" (basically anything with Anna Richardson, lol) did a great job just showing in sheer volume how much people eat, and how many calories it totaled. THAT got me to thinking how much I personally consume, and I cut down my portions enough to lose 50lb (still have 30 to go, but I'll get there). I'd love to see a calorie tally on just how much these takeouts/gravy/etc ARE. Figuring out what a true single portion size IS, with the help of a food scale, is the single most important thing that's helped me to lose weight.

Edited February 1, 2019 by ZeldaZee

[Colleenna]

33 minutes ago, RTS said:

True... But I think there's an element of self delusion in an addict's lies.... In the moment when they're satisfying their addiction people are like f this I'm eating. It's only later when the guilt and accountability set in that they lie.  Have you ever lied so hard that you believed it?  I have... it's surreal and very convincing.

Haha I sound like a psychopath but in elementary school I was disputing ownership of a sparkly pencil.  I really did own the pencil but it was my word against hers and that wasn't enough.  I spun a tearful lie about having borrowed it from my big sister that was so convincing I actually believed it while telling it.  The teacher secretly gave it back to me after school after confiscating it.  /End lame story 

Regardless it would be hilarious to compare the diary with the calories that dr. Now could deduce from their weight delta.

And they record their food AFTER THE FACT, which is when they feel guilty so they lie. Or they "forget" the mashed potatoes and gravy that they had with their grilled chicken and green salad. And oh, dang, forgot about the half bottle of thousand Island dressing they poured on said salad. 

[Hannah94]

Watching Holly's story again tonight because I was distracted a few times the first time. Noticed a couple more wtf moments: She said her first WLS failed, instead of saying she failed after getting the surgery. And holy crap, her bites are humongous and her mouth is actually pretty small compared to average (or perhaps it appears very small because the rest of her is so freakishly large). How does she eat a gigantic burger in three bites? Each bite was 1/3 of the sandwich and that was no small sandwich. How does she not choke on those huge bites? She ate that soft pretzel in one bite, just drilled it into her mouth like a damn wood chipper, without a break.

[Twopper]

1 hour ago, ZeldaZee said:

I only just got the episode on Prime...I'm halfway through (Holly and Ray just moved down to Houston and got, surprise, Chinese). I may be coming off the Justin high of last week, but...I dunno, I'd like to like Holly, I don't think she's hopeless or evil or anything, but I just cannot warm to her at all. I know it sounds crazy but she had this little simpering smile at the first Dr. Now meeting that came across so self-satisfied (Meryl Streep has the same thing and I cannot stand that woman– hey, like I said, I know it sounds crazy).

Also, you guys just moved into an apartment with a BEAUTIFUL kitchen full of new appliances, you have a car and thus access to a grocery store, you have phones/computers to look up recipes (or at least order takeout), and you're "not really set up to cook"? Just how set up do you need to be?! I just moved and while 90% of my stuff is in a storage unit and will be for most of the year, I kept my wok, rice cooker/veg steamer and cast-iron frying pan in the few boxes I moved in to my new place.

These are just my thoughts based on what I've seen so far (I don't have TV so I never see these episodes live). Maybe I'll change my mind in the next 40 minutes. Again, Holly doesn't seem like a bad person and having being bullied for my weight as a child (I was 160lb at ~11) I do feel empathy for that...but while I don't actively dislike Holly, for some reason I have a really hard time fully rooting for her. There's just something about her that rubs me the wrong way and I can't place why.

Yes, it was like a smirk.  Like she was convinced Dr Now would believe her.   I think she is a deeply troubled individual, and I think the family dynamics do not bode well for her success.  Ray creeps me out, and I wasn't impressed with her parents.  I like the dog well enough.      

It is too bad her mom didn't send her off with a few kitchen basics.  They mentioned they were out of money (I hope I don't go to forum jail for mentioning $$ but they mentioned it and also mentioned he had to get a job) so they had to do a week of take out.   I figure $15 per meal x 3 meals a day x7 days and that's $315 that could have been spent at the grocery.  Get a few fully cooked items like a rotisserie chicken, etc and you will be much healthier.   As I said earlier in the thread, the woman lacks initiative and seems unable to figure how to do what she needs to do.

[Colleenna]

This thought just occurred to me. Holly's mother said that even as an infant, Holly cried constantly for food. What if pre-verbal Holly wasn't crying for food, but rather to be picked up, held, cuddled and mama interpreted it as hungry and fed her? Holly wanted love and affection, but got food instead. That would very firmly plant the notion that food = love in her brain. Her relationship with Ray seems to reinforce that: she wants his affection, he feeds her. 

I'm not a psychiatrist, and they won't let me play one on TV, but something about that just clicked in my peabrain. 

[ZeldaZee]

1 hour ago, Colleenna said:

And they record their food AFTER THE FACT, which is when they feel guilty so they lie. Or they "forget" the mashed potatoes and gravy that they had with their grilled chicken and green salad. And oh, dang, forgot about the half bottle of thousand Island dressing they poured on said salad. 

The biggest (no pun intended) thing that ever helped me has been 1) a food scale and 2) a food diary. I'm not always honest with my diary but I've been 80% honest over the last few years and even that dropped me from 220lb to 175. My goal for February is to log literally everything I eat and drink. Even if I can't weigh it I can guessimate and if it's something I don't know, I'll log the highest calorie count available so I don't go over my daily limit.

The only "contestant" I remember seeing using a food scale/tracking app was Amber in S3. It's such a small investment, my scale cost $30 seven years ago and it probably saved my life. No wonder she's been so successful.

[newyawk]

This one kind of annoyed me when I was watching her reasons for starting to overeat. Her parents were fighting all the time and she was in fear? And? Parents fight. Kids will usually find ways around it --  go over to friends' houses, get involved in outside activities, etc. I get that everyone has a different coping mechanism, but that seems pretty mild and not really like what was driving her to eat, especially since her parents are still married and at least on this show, did not seem particularly hostile.  Holly was getting bullied because of her weight and after her parents told her to try to ignore it, she didn't go to a teacher? She doesn't seem like someone who is very resourceful.

Her mother didn't determine that her weight was out of control until she was over 200 lbs at ten years old? She sounds like a lazy, inattentive parent. And Holly immediately struck me as a weak person. So yes, that was a perfect combination for failure.

It annoyed me when Holly was telling Dr. Now about her first surgery and how she wasn't aware that her staples were coming out and suddenly she was able to eat more. The staples came out BECAUSE she was eating more than she should have been and stretching the procedure results. So she wasn't taking any responsibility for that.

I'm glad Dr. Now was so blunt with Holly ("You're no longer a child, so stop acting like one") because she really needed that.

Holly stuffing her face with cashew chicken, making the excuse that they didn't have household goods to cook was ridiculous. Here;'s the thing..you just had one failed weigh in. You know why you're forced to move to Houston, and knowing what your mission is, you couldn't put a box of kitchen supplies, at least one pan, one pot, a spatula, forks and knives etc. together and make it the first accessible box you take out of the car when you get to Houston? You have a car, go to the supermarket. You have a  refrigerator/freezer and a microwave, you could have gotten frozen vegetables. I mean, really, any excuse to justify more fast food. There really was no excuse for her not eating better,

I was kind of surprised when they found a major hernia during surgery, because if it was that bad, Holly must have been having a tremendous amount of pain frequently and I'm wondering why she never would have gone to a doctor about it before, I would think it could have been detected. It probably explains why she had so much discomfort making the first two trips to Dallas.

It was good to see that she was having some success with the weight loss finally, and that her mother was coming around to being supportive finally. I  hope Holly sticks with the counseling, it seems to be working for her, at least for the cameras. However, I still feel she's got a lot of growing up left to do, and hopefully  she doesn't ruin this surgery also. 

[TVWatcher12]

20 hours ago, calpurnia99 said:

The sugar free jam FUCKING KILLED ME!! Like she's trying! After we saw her eat 6 scrambled eggs, a side of bacon, 4 biscuits and 4 sausage patties and then go to KFC and order a bucket of chicken, onion rings and I can't remember something else! But SUGAR FREE JAM!!!!

Yes - like the equivalent of a Whopper and large fries but with a DIET Coke. I actually got angry watching this 38-year-old BABY sitting around doing nothing but eat all day with a “staff” of people keeping her that way. I feel bad for her parents that this is their child. No job, no motivation to do or become anything. Sad really.

[AVM]

A huge breakfast,now lets go get lunch ? and eat it in the car  before lunchtime ! I am glad she lost weight but she has been their before..

[Colleenna]

26 minutes ago, AVM said:

A huge breakfast,now lets go get lunch ? and eat it in the car  before lunchtime ! I am glad she lost weight but she has been their before..

No, no, that wasn't lunch. That was her second breakfast. 

[Pepper Mostly]

8 hours ago, Colleenna said:

This thought just occurred to me. Holly's mother said that even as an infant, Holly cried constantly for food. What if pre-verbal Holly wasn't crying for food, but rather to be picked up, held, cuddled and mama interpreted it as hungry and fed her? Holly wanted love and affection, but got food instead. That would very firmly plant the notion that food = love in her brain. Her relationship with Ray seems to reinforce that: she wants his affection, he feeds her. 

 

I thought the exact same thing.

[Colleenna]

3 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

I thought the exact same thing.

Oh, good. I was ready to file that under "I'll take 'Stupid Thoughts in the Middle of the Night' for $400, Alex..."

[Pepper Mostly]

Nope, not stupid. Pool little baby Holly was probably fretful and cried a lot. Momma just stuffed a bottle in her face to try and shut her up.

The thing I can never understand is how a young child can get so fat? How does a kid of six or seven get to be over 100 pounds? Where do they get the food? Doesn't anyone notice when all the bread is gone, or the peanut butter, all the leftovers from Sunday dinner, all the chips, snacks, cookies, ice cream? Is a kid that young left unsupervised so much that they can tear through all the family provisions without being observed? If my 6 year old was trawling through the house like a shark, constantly searching for food, I'd take her to the doctor. All these people just blandly say "by the time I was 14 I weighed over 200 pounds". HOW? Their parents were enabling them even then!

[88Keys]

12 hours ago, ZeldaZee said:

I only just got the episode on Prime...I'm halfway through (Holly and Ray just moved down to Houston and got, surprise, Chinese). I may be coming off the Justin high of last week, but...I dunno, I'd like to like Holly, I don't think she's hopeless or evil or anything, but I just cannot warm to her at all. I know it sounds crazy but she had this little simpering smile at the first Dr. Now meeting that came across so self-satisfied (Meryl Streep has the same thing and I cannot stand that woman– hey, like I said, I know it sounds crazy).

Also, you guys just moved into an apartment with a BEAUTIFUL kitchen full of new appliances, you have a car and thus access to a grocery store, you have phones/computers to look up recipes (or at least order takeout), and you're "not really set up to cook"? Just how set up do you need to be?! I just moved and while 90% of my stuff is in a storage unit and will be for most of the year, I kept my wok, rice cooker/veg steamer and cast-iron frying pan in the few boxes I moved in to my new place.

 

 

She had a really weird affect when she spoke and when she looked at people.  I can't tell if she is kind of slow or if she's just really manipulative.  I'm thinking the latter.  She's used to getting her way with her family and maybe even with other doctors.  Dr. Now wasn't having it, though.

 

10 hours ago, Hannah94 said:

Watching Holly's story again tonight because I was distracted a few times the first time. Noticed a couple more wtf moments: She said her first WLS failed, instead of saying she failed after getting the surgery. 

 

Yep.  She also said things like "I'm taking steps to start working towards meeting my goals," or something like that, instead of saying "I'm following Dr. Now's diet and exercise instructions."  A lot of them use that double-speak because they know they aren't really doing what the doctor says.

 

10 hours ago, Twopper said:

 

It is too bad her mom didn't send her off with a few kitchen basics.  They mentioned they were out of money (I hope I don't go to forum jail for mentioning $$ but they mentioned it and also mentioned he had to get a job) so they had to do a week of take out.   I figure $15 per meal x 3 meals a day x7 days and that's $315 that could have been spent at the grocery.  Get a few fully cooked items like a rotisserie chicken, etc and you will be much healthier.   As I said earlier in the thread, the woman lacks initiative and seems unable to figure how to do what she needs to do.

There is no reason they couldn't have brought pots and pans with them.  Or gone to Goodwill and picked up a few very cheap ones.  I notice they had money for Chinese food.

 

42 minutes ago, Colleenna said:

No, no, that wasn't lunch. That was her second breakfast. 

Holly follows the Hobbit eating plan.  Breakfast, Second Breakfast, Elevensies, Lunch, afternoon tea.... :)

[Mothra]

13 hours ago, Kyanight said:

There is something I've wondered about when watching a lot of these people's 600 pound stories.  Will-power is certainly a factor, as is appetite.  Obviously the TYPE of food eaten (usually fast and convenient and sugary) is a given.   But how big of a role does the need to be "babied" and taken CARE of, play into this?  Well - perhaps not initially, because as the person gets larger and larger, I don't think they deliberately intend on having someone wait on them hand and foot.  But AFTER they become immobile and bedridden - although yes, they are in pain and miserable because of the weight - do they secretly fear becoming thinner and mobile because then they will have to "grow up" and take on NUMEROUS responsibilities?   When you loll around in bed all day, you have zero responsibilities other than bending your elbow and placing fork/spoon/food into your mouth.  Perhaps clicking the channel changer.  Maybe turning the lap top on and off.  You don't have to get up and go to work and earn money to pay the mortgage/rent, buy food, utilities, cell phone (I noticed most of them have one!) car expenses or any of the other myriad of expenses that come from living in our modern world.  No bed time (How I would love THAT, being a night owl!) and no set time you have to get up.  An enabler (and they ALL have one or more!) to wait on them hand and foot.  "Bring me the _________!"  "I'm hungry! Get me some food!"  <~~~  How many times have we heard THAT said when watching this show?  When you are immobile you don't have to do the dishes, vacuum the carpet, scrub floors/toilet/counter/bathtub, do laundry, ANY other household tasks, or even run errands.  Someone will do literally EVERYTHING for you, while you watch TV, play on your computer and eat junk food and drink gallons of soda.   I am wondering if these people actually have a mental illness, just like hoarders do - who cannot even throw garbage away sometimes and live with bugs and mice.  Counseling can help - but I think it will always be an issue and something that must always be dealt with.  (My mum was a hoarder.)   I am wondering if this is true and many of these people are actually mentally ill and not just dealing with lingering self-esteem issues/trauma from childhood - wouldn't this explain why so few of them actually succeed in becoming mobile and independent in this series?  CAN they succeed? 

If any of you remember Penny, it was watching her story where I first started thinking along these lines.  She wanted the surgery and had the surgery.  And then wouldn't do a darn thing as far as diet and exercise.   FOUR YEARS after the show her husband started a Gofundme so that he could stay home and take care of her all day (hope it's ok with the mods that I said this - it's on Google!) and it only made $200 and upset viewers who had seen the show.  My POINT in even bringing up that part is this:  FOUR years after the show aired she is still bedridden with no responsibilities and all of her needs taken care of FOR her.   She admitted to quitting her weight loss program and moving back home to Maryland. “It’s been a much more positive experience here without someone telling me I’m not doing a good job. I don’t feel the need to be on a scale because it doesn’t matter".  

 

I don't believe that anyone who DOESN'T have a form of mental illness would choose to be obese and bedridden after knowing how the experience has been in their past and having obtained weight loss surgery, (despite will power issues) just as I don't believe someone who doesn't have mental illness would choose to live in a house so full of junk and trash that they have to maneuver through pathways to get through the house and usually end up sleeping on the floor or a large chair somewhere - or a trailer in the yard.  (And don't care about bug and rodent infestations and sometimes dead animal carcasses in and around their hoards.)   Just my thoughts.  I wonder how many of Dr. Now's patients have true success?  I tried googling that question in many different ways and couldn't come up with any statistics.  Certainly many lose a considerable amount of weight in the first year or two - but what about 5 years down the road?  Ten?  How many ended up "blowing their staples" like Holly did?

I don't generally quote an entire post to respond to it, but your thoughts are developed organically, and I just don't see how to cut it.  I think you're right.  I think the people we see on 600lb do have a mental illness that expresses itself through an inability (unwillingness) to stop eating because of the desirable results that eating presents them.  I think these folks are different (in many ways) from normal too-fat, even obese, people.  I mentioned earlier that I don't understand why none of the poundticipants appears to have thought much or tried to find out anything about food and weight--the fat people I know all know certain basics about nutrition, starting with learning to read labels and look up calorie content.  Even people who aren't actively trying to lose weight but who have been overweight for any length of time could probably teach a basic nutrition seminar.  And in my experience, the longer you've been overweight, the more you've learned.  None of these folks seems to know anything at all about food.  They are all stunned at the expectation that they will lose 50 lbs in two months--those of us who are diet "pros" know that at massive weights, fifty pounds will come off fast--if you follow the diet.  If they all followed the diet, they'd probably lose 150 lbs in two months!  But this is all news to them.

This is not to say that diet is the only solution, or that WLS doesn't have a role to play.  After the first hundred or so pounds, losing weight does become slower and requires really rigid adherence to the eating plan, as well as determination to stick with it through the inevitable plateaux and even gains that will occur as the body adjusts its metabolism to the reduced food intake.  This is where you begin to experience the truly difficult part of weight loss--keeping it off.  And I bet every single pounder here knows and understands all this.

The poundticipants also seem never to have watched a weight-loss TV show, which is remarkable considering what they've signed up for.  While most of the poundticipants are not well educated, there have been some, like the recent, successful young man, who are, and they seem to learn much more quickly than the others what they need to do, to accept the truth of what Dr. Now is telling them.  I don't think men have the same consuming interest women have in learning about weight loss, so it doesn't surprise me that the men are unaware of all this.

When people have certain, especially self-destructive, mental illnesses, one of the adaptations that allow them to continue to stay alive is that there is some kind of justification or payoff, usually unconscious, that may interfere with recovery.  I think this is obviously the case with Holly, and I agree that the future doesn't look good for her.  I think the first enormous clue was when she said she and her fiance had to move in with her parents so she wouldn't be alone for a single moment.  I understand that toileting was a big concern, but there are workarounds for that that do not require having someone on hand 24/7 in case you need to be wiped.

Holly has some (secret) resentments about her childhood.  She has told us it was rough, and from the fact that she was already obese as a young child I think we have to believe that *something* was going on.  IMO, her overwhelming need to be babied is her punishment for her parents who did not baby her when she was a baby.  Now she must *always* be taken care of and protected (24/7).  She is being forced to relive, until she dies, her unmet infant need to be nurtured; she has found a way, by making herself as helpless as she possibly can, to assure that someone--anyone, at this point--will take care of her.  Unless and until she comes clean in therapy--maybe she even needs help trying to remember what happened?--and that lack of care is addressed, she's going to continue to eat herself to death.

[Tabbygirl521]

OK, I haven’t watched yet but am about halfway through the Live Chat. The super religious parents don’t approve of unmarrieds living together? Do they think Precious Cargo and her valet are doing the nasty? 

[Kyanight]

16 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

OK, I haven’t watched yet but am about halfway through the Live Chat. The super religious parents don’t approve of unmarrieds living together? Do they think Precious Cargo and her valet are doing the nasty? 

Ok.  Fine.  Thank you SOOO much.  I have been sitting here with my fingers over my keyboard TRYING NOT to type.... then typing... then backspacing..... but... I can't... resist the dark side of the force!  So I will just spit it out (with my fingers).  I have a very difficult time believing contact could be made between the boyfriends uh.... appendage... and the daughter's ... uh....  - how g-rated do we have to be in this forum???  You get the gist.  I don't think it's very possible.  Maybe he could rub it between her thighs... but I got the impression they weren't actually intimate.

[cpcathy]

I finished watching this episode last night, or, rather, I got through as much as I could before deleting it altogether. I was super perplexed that Holly's mother did not pack her some pots and pans. You know sixty year old moms always have a ton of stuff--she did not strike me as having Marie Kondo'ed her house! "We're not set up to cook" was a HUGE excuse. Shrug shoulders, whoops! Can't cook, need to order Chinese! Even the suggestions above of Goodwill or other thrift stores are great ones, those stores are everywhere, they must have passed a couple! Holly knew she didn't want to cook healthy food so she did not.

[Pepper Mostly]

"We're not set up to cook" just made me scream with laughter. If that tub of lard has ever attempted to cook anything more complicated than a grilled cheese sandwich I will eat my hat. Ray doesn't cook either. He can make a sandwich or scramble an egg, but that's his limit. Holly's mortified that, at 38, she does not function as a adult. She has no intention of ever doing so, either. But she wants to present herself in the best possible light. (see Jam, Sugar Free).

Edited February 1, 2019 by Pepper Mostly

[cpcathy]

Another thing that drove me bonkers (there were so many!) was Holly complaining that Ray did not give her affection, that he needed to go over and give her a hug. Bish, please! He is taking care of you (however well that is), wiping your ass, you can go over and give him a hug and say THANK YOU!

[princelina]

17 hours ago, Mothra said:

I think Holly said at one point that she was addicted to food, and I take your point that what's going on with her and food is comparable to a drug addiction.  But is it really food she's addicted to, or is it the feeling of the food in her mouth as she's eating it?  I guess that's true of drug addiction, too--it's not the drugs themselves but the feelings they induce.  I think of "food addiction," though, as a not necessarily bad thing.  There are people who love to eat, who love flavor and texture and "mouth feel," who travel the world looking for new tastes--I would call that a food addiction, not the frantic wolfing down of bland, salty, greasy *stuff* without texture or real interest that Holly did.    She wants to shove stuff in her mouth.  As many have said, she's infantile, a big baby demanding her pap.  Babies don't want texture or flavor; they want sweet, buttery, smooth--breast milk is like vanilla hot chocolate made with heavy cream--and they have to learn to accept food that must be actually tasted, chewed, savored.  Holly hasn't gotten to that developmental level with regard to what she eats.

It's semantics, I know, but I'm not comfortable accepting that she's "addicted" to food.  I think she's addicted to being a baby in every way she can manage, and maybe Dr. Baby Voice is exactly the therapist for her!

 

15 hours ago, Kyanight said:

I don't believe that anyone who DOESN'T have a form of mental illness would choose to be obese and bedridden after knowing how the experience has been in their past and having obtained weight loss surgery, (despite will power issues) just as I don't believe someone who doesn't have mental illness would choose to live in a house so full of junk and trash that they have to maneuver through pathways to get through the house and usually end up sleeping on the floor or a large chair somewhere - or a trailer in the yard.  (And don't care about bug and rodent infestations and sometimes dead animal carcasses in and around their hoards.)   Just my thoughts.  I wonder how many of Dr. Now's patients have true success?  I tried googling that question in many different ways and couldn't come up with any statistics.  Certainly many lose a considerable amount of weight in the first year or two - but what about 5 years down the road?  Ten?  How many ended up "blowing their staples" like Holly did?

I would call the bolded above "foodies" and their food activities a hobby or interest.  To me the biggest thing that makes someone an "addict" is their deliberate insistence on doing something that is ruining their life.  And while there is a physical component (some addictions more than others) the bigger component is mental, and when they are being completely disgusting, ruining their life, the lives of their loved ones AND prefer that to dealing with their issues - to me that is definitely mental illness, whether diagnosed or not.  And that is why they all seem so selfish.

[pdlinda]

On 1/31/2019 at 4:41 AM, Kellyee said:

You knew there were going to be problems when she didn't tell Dr. Now how she eats two huge breakfasts and two huge dinners and 5,000 snacks in between. Most of the people on this show try to lie by generalization (I eat a lot, but don't give specifics), but she just LIED. 

And what was up with all the close-up shots of her eating? I haven't noticed that in previous episodes. They kept zooming in, like to emphasize how she can't stop eating. It was overkill.

I believe there's a psychological condition called, Compulsive Eating Disorder.  It's really not about the food.  It's about "free-floating" anxiety and other moods that Holly has encountered and experienced throughout her life.  It's the "immediate gratification" of eating that quells her tense and stressful moments (that apparently go on all day long and have for many, many years)

I guess the obvious conclusion would be that if Holly spent all the time she spends "eating" in intensive "therapy" (talk therapy and other therapies like maybe art therapy), she might have a chance to learn to cope with her moods more healthfully.  HOWEVER, it's plain and obvious, that what I'm stating takes a mature and thoughtful approach to life.  The obsession with eating is very childlike because the first thing an infant does is "eat" (breast milk or formula) and to advance to more mature ways of coping with life's ups and downs requires a lot of commitment to change.  It's that HARD WORK that Holly will have to develop an affinity for or suffer the consequences.  There is no Quick-Fix for Holly to transform her health profile and appearance.  It's HARD WORK!!

[PrincessPurrsALot]

When it comes to second breakfast, Aragorn speaks for us all:

[Granny58]

16 hours ago, Twopper said:

Her parents fought, but the question is What did they fight about and Why?   

dad is skinny.  Holly was an over-eater from birth.  I wonder if the fights were about how much mom fed her and dad was trying to shut that down.  So Holly would be the center of the conflict AND also develop an issue with food.  

[Tabbygirl521]

1 hour ago, Kyanight said:

Ok.  Fine.  Thank you SOOO much.  I have been sitting here with my fingers over my keyboard TRYING NOT to type.... then typing... then backspacing..... but... I can't... resist the dark side of the force!  So I will just spit it out (with my fingers).  I have a very difficult time believing contact could be made between the boyfriends uh.... appendage... and the daughter's ... uh....  - how g-rated do we have to be in this forum???  You get the gist.  I don't think it's very possible.  Maybe he could rub it between her thighs... but I got the impression they weren't actually intimate.

I’m watching now and it looks like she sleeps with the dog. 

[Granny58]

11 hours ago, Colleenna said:

This thought just occurred to me. Holly's mother said that even as an infant, Holly cried constantly for food. What if pre-verbal Holly wasn't crying for food, but rather to be picked up, held, cuddled and mama interpreted it as hungry and fed her? Holly wanted love and affection, but got food instead. That would very firmly plant the notion that food = love in her brain. Her relationship with Ray seems to reinforce that: she wants his affection, he feeds her. 

I'm not a psychiatrist, and they won't let me play one on TV, but something about that just clicked in my peabrain. 

I like this.  very insightful.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I don't understand why people like Holly spend so much on transporting things in U-Hauls.    For the same money and effort, you could just pack clothes, and vital paperwork, and then go outfit the apartment with a couch, TV, TV stand, and get a bed and sofa delivered.    They sell entire, decent sets of cookware at Big Lots, or Walmart, and also sell sofas, and beds.    I'm sure with one delivery for living room, bed, and other big stuff, and a quick trip to Walmart, I could outfit a kitchen for a couple of hundred.     The other stuff won't be the cost of hauling the trailer, and rental, plus the risk of hurting yourself loading and unloading it.     

I know this works, because the man who moved in next door loaded his clothes, computer stuff, and a few necessary things up, sold everything else, and then move in next door.    With help from my favorite furniture store, and sales lady, he had everything in a week, and had a really neat blow up bed and all of his kitchen stuff on day one.    

My guess is the mother fixated on Holly as an infant, because there was some reason she knew that Holly was her last baby, so she kept her an infant forever.   I've seen that happen, where other kids are disciplined, and expected to act decently, and the youngest is never expected to grow up, or mature.     I think it would be enlightening to talk to Holly's sibling about what life was like for them, and how Holly was the favorite of the mother.    

My guess is Holly was the permanent baby of the family, and the other sibling was raised totally differently.     There was a similar situation in my family, where the older siblings had to act well, and act like decent human beings, and the youngest was coddled and overfed for years.     Some just can't let the last kid grow up, and want to keep a baby forever, and I think that explains Holly's total lack of effort, and willingness to be cared for her entire life.   

Edited February 1, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[Granny58]

52 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

The obsession with eating is very childlike because the first thing an infant does is "eat" (breast milk or formula)

Thank you for saying this.  When I watched her tongue (and I couldn't look away!) it struck me as rooting behavior...looking for a nipple.  I think she got stuck in infancy.  

[cpcathy]

When she ate the Asiago chicken sandwich, her eyes were either closed or close to it, seemed like nursing now that y'all mention it!

[toodles]

2 hours ago, cpcathy said:

Holly knew she didn't want to cook healthy food so she did not.

Holly actually moving and cooking.  Whoo boy!  Good one!

[Tabbygirl521]

Holly mentioned that her parents were very religious and very strict. Depending on the religion, “strict” can include corporal punishment or being told that Satan is causing all your problems and that you need to get yourself right with God. I have no idea what her family was actually like, but I’m just saying. My spouse came from a “strict religious family” and a lot of it was not pretty. 

[Mothra]

1 hour ago, princelina said:

 

I would call the bolded above "foodies" and their food activities a hobby or interest.  To me the biggest thing that makes someone an "addict" is their deliberate insistence on doing something that is ruining their life.  And while there is a physical component (some addictions more than others) the bigger component is mental, and when they are being completely disgusting, ruining their life, the lives of their loved ones AND prefer that to dealing with their issues - to me that is definitely mental illness, whether diagnosed or not.  And that is why they all seem so selfish.

Yeah, I get that, and it certainly crossed my mind as I typed.  And we see characteristics of other kinds of addictions in the poundticipants.  I guess my problem lies in an inability to understand how one can be addicted to something basic, like food, that sustains life.  Maybe I'm too picky.  I don't think they are addicted to food--we all are; just look at the terrible withdrawal symptoms we all evince when we're starved to death!--but to overeating.  We don't say people with anorexia are addicted to food, although their illness is certainly imho an addiction, one that expresses itself through misuse of food; maybe I would be happier saying people like Holly are on the other end of the spectrum of misusing food--she is addicted to overeating, to overconsuming, while someone with anorexia would be addicted to underconsuming?  Both use food as a means to control something, whether it's themselves or other people, or circumstances in general.  I think I would be OK with addiction to food as a diagnosis if it were applied equally to people with addictions that cause them to under-eat.  This probably matters to no one but me, so feel free to carry on.  I'm going to have a Snickers.  Because nobody loves me.

[Henri205]

Can we add to the Bingo Card?  “Me and (insert name here) went to (insert place here). Drives me nuts. Isn’t grammar taught?  

[toodles]

2 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Holly's mortified that, at 38, she does not function as a adult. She has no intention of ever doing so, either. But she wants to present herself in the best possible light. (see Jam, Sugar Free).

IMHO, if you changed mortified to relived, I think you would be right on the money.  Holly is too busy to cook or make a food plan!  She has to shop online for sugar free jam all day, everyday.

Holly reminds me so much of Penny.  Penny was the Bestest Mom Ever right from her peepad bed.    They both are creative lying liars that lie.  Holly is just a Poor oLittle Girl that needs a babysitter 24/7.  Penny didn't know how to lose weight because no one told her how.  Holly didn't know she popped her staples until three years ago, even though that must have hurt like crazy. 

I think they are both waiting for the magic pill that would allow you to eat 10,000 calories a day and stay a size 8.  None of that pesky diet and exercise.  It could be at the end of Penny's Yellow Brick Road.  Since she never found it, I guess we'll never know.😢

[Kyanight]

35 minutes ago, toodles said:

Holly reminds me so much of Penny.  Penny was the Bestest Mom Ever right from her peepad bed.

Penny.  The most universally disliked 600 pound person on the history of the show.  (Seriously!)  Someone needs to hit her "upside the head" with a loaf of french bread.

[Pepper Mostly]

Holly reminds me of the mother in that weirdly dysfunctional mother daughter pair who were on a season or two ago--remember them? The mother's legs were huge and she'd sit with them splayed out at almost right angles. Mama was childlike and helpless, with doe eyes that would fill with tears as she looked supplicatingly up at people. The daughter was strangely childlike too, worrying that "my mom and I were going to be separated" and wanting to be around her mommy all the time.

47 minutes ago, toodles said:

IMHO, if you changed mortified to relived, I think you would be right on the money.  Holly is too busy to cook or make a food plan!  She has to shop online for sugar free jam all day, everyday.

Oh, she has no intention of ever embracing adulthood. But she wants to control the narrative. She wants us, the viewers, to see her as a plucky little lady who just needs some help to "stay on track". We see you, Holly.

[Concerned]

4 hours ago, Kyanight said:

Ok.  Fine.  Thank you SOOO much.  I have been sitting here with my fingers over my keyboard TRYING NOT to type.... then typing... then backspacing..... but... I can't... resist the dark side of the force!  So I will just spit it out (with my fingers).  I have a very difficult time believing contact could be made between the boyfriends uh.... appendage... and the daughter's ... uh....  - how g-rated do we have to be in this forum???  You get the gist.  I don't think it's very possible.  Maybe he could rub it between her thighs... but I got the impression they weren't actually intimate.

On the Jazz show, she was happy that her new vagina was 7 inches deep and I was wondering what type of man she planned on having sex with considering there’s some gap between the man and woman,