S01.E13: Twelve Seconds

[possibilities]

I like that theory, nexxie, but then I wonder why Ashley wouldn't know who she is. If she's one of the beneficiaries of the inheritance, surely he'd leave contact information, at minimum.

Or maybe Ashley does know, but was testing to find out what Delilah knows.

[alexvillage]

I re-watched the episode and some things are still a bit too much for me to suspend disbelief. 

If Jon took another life insurance policy and put the guys as beneficiaries, there is no way Ashley would be able to get the money. At minimum, she would need their signatures giving her authorization so, no. The writers seem to have put themselves in a mess of a plot and and resorting to fantasy to solve it. I might have missed something but when did Jon bought that policy? Life insurance companies will not pay if the use of death is suicide (for the first twi years). If he was in such trouble for such a long time, it is unlikely that nobody else would know.

I still feel it is really sad that he felt so desperate and lonely to commit suicide but I find it hard to feel sorry for a super capitalist who made a bad investment hoping to make even more money and lost it all. So many pain in the world, in this country, and we are supposed to feel sorry for a rich guy with bad instincts? Not me. And the whole "I was trying to find that other Jon" does not convince me. Bad writing is bad, and when it is that bad it can't be fixed.

Theo is the best thing in this show. What an awesome kid, and the actor is so natural, he has chemistry with everyone! 

Nitpick: I can't stand when writers do this, and they do it a lot: character waits for another for an "important meeting". The other arrives, the exchange takes 90 seconds, that's it. This is a filler, with the "you are late" and all. Phone calls maybe? It is like in another show where an agent, or police officer, in the middle of a crime scene, calls another agent or officer and says: "turn on the TV". Gosh, they are right in the middle of the scene, they have all the information and they are telling other officers to watch it on TV? Seriously? 

[debraran]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I like that theory, nexxie, but then I wonder why Ashley wouldn't know who she is. If she's one of the beneficiaries of the inheritance, surely he'd leave contact information, at minimum.

Or maybe Ashley does know, but was testing to find out what Delilah knows.

There is a scene in the first or second show, shows Ashley frustrated googling the name Barbara Morgan in Jon's computer. I don't think she knows who she is. It kept coming up "no info" or something like that.

Edited February 4, 2019 by debraran

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, alexvillage said:

Life insurance companies will not pay if the use of death is suicide (for the first twi years).

I don't exactly remember what they showed, but I remember comments from an early episode thread where people had noticed a date and it was something like two years plus a couple months after he bought the policy.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, alexvillage said:

If Jon took another life insurance policy and put the guys as beneficiaries, there is no way Ashley would be able to get the money. At minimum, she would need their signatures giving her authorization so, no. The writers seem to have put themselves in a mess of a plot and and resorting to fantasy to solve it. I might have missed something but when did Jon bought that policy? Life insurance companies will not pay if the use of death is suicide (for the first twi years). If he was in such trouble for such a long time, it is unlikely that nobody else would know.

 

3 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I don't exactly remember what they showed, but I remember comments from an early episode thread where people had noticed a date and it was something like two years plus a couple months after he bought the policy.

It was exactly two years and two days. DJ Nash emphasized the time frame in one of his early interviews. 

[possibilities]

If he planned it for 2 years, it wasn't about the real estate deal falling through.

[Bethanne]

On 1/31/2019 at 10:48 PM, debraran said:

I think the driving lessons were WAY too long and made the commercial breaks seem even longer. 

Probably because they were one big commercial. Lexus, anyone? 🙄

[TaurusRose]

On 2/1/2019 at 1:25 AM, Dani said:

Was it really necessary to have Constance Zimmer’s character in the pilot just for this one episode?

 

Okay. I’ll bite. Who the f##k is Constance Zimmerman and why does it matter that she was only in one episode?

Edited February 4, 2019 by taurusrose

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Okay. I’ll bite. Who the f##k is Constance Zimmerman and why does it matter that she was only in one episode?

She was briefly in the pilot and everyone thought she was going to be Barbara Morgan but she ended up playing Jeri. She showed up in multiple promos so it was a lot of buildup that led to very little. 

[LuvMyShows]

33 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Okay. I’ll bite. Who the f##k is Constance Zimmerman and why does it matter that she was only in one episode?

 

27 minutes ago, Dani said:

She was briefly in the pilot and everyone thought she was going to be Barbara Morgan but she ended up playing Jeri. She showed up in multiple promos so it was a lot of buildup that led to very little. 

I could be wrong, but what I think what taurusrose was getting at, is why was it a big deal that Constance Zimmerman was going to be on the show at all?  I have never heard of her, and don't recognize her picture that has been shown, but I get the sense that because she was in so many promos, that probably she was supposed to be a big attraction.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

 

I could be wrong, but what I think what taurusrose was getting at, is why was it a big deal that Constance Zimmerman was going to be on the show at all?  I have never heard of her, and don't recognize her picture that has been shown, but I get the sense that because she was in so many promos, that probably she was supposed to be a big attraction.

It wasn’t a big deal that Constance Zimmer is on the show. It is just that she has been in a lot of shows so many people recognized in the pilot. She’s too well known for such a minor part so her showing up seemed significant. There was a lot of speculation about who she was playing here and in articles on the show. The show played into that with the promos and interviews so for it to go nowhere was annoying.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Guest

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Once again, Theo continues to be the absolute best thing about this show. I love that kid.

I was really hoping that Berge would mention his twin brother Serge in Beverly Hills.

Carter's shriek of delight when Katherine told him that Hunter was coming over to her house for dinner that night was everything.

My mom would definitely buy the car that Maggie said her mom would design (the one that would brake every time she yelled, "Look out!"). I'm well past 16 and my mom STILL does that when I drive, usually when she sees at traffic light turn yellow from four blocks away.

I understand Delilah's anger at Ashley. Even without without all the info she withheld about the buildings and the subway vote, she fucked up majorly when she found an envelope addressed to her boss's wife after he committed suicide and then decided to open it, read it, and then NOT GIVE IT TO HER. Regardless of how Ashley feels about Delilah, that was not her decision to make. If everything she was doing was to honor Jon's legacy and wishes, then she should have given his goodbye letter to his widow immediately. She saw how Delilah, Sophie, and Danny were struggling with his suicide and she STILL held on to that letter for weeks (months? I can't tell what the damn timeline on this show is). It's not like his letter revealed anything incriminating, so she kept it to herself for no good reason. And I say all that as someone who doesn't even like Delilah.

I almost never eat dinner before 8pm. Mr. EB and I jokingly refer to it as being very sophisticated and European (like Elaine cutting her candy bar with a fork and knife on Seinfeld).

[debraran]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Once again, Theo continues to be the absolute best thing about this show. I love that kid.

I was really hoping that Berge would mention his twin brother Serge in Beverly Hills.

Carter's shriek of delight when Katherine told him that Hunter was coming over to her house for dinner that night was everything.

My mom would definitely buy the car that Maggie said her mom would design (the one that would brake every time she yelled, "Look out!"). I'm well past 16 and my mom STILL does that when I drive, usually when she sees at traffic light turn yellow from four blocks away.

I understand Delilah's anger at Ashley. Even without without all the info she withheld about the buildings and the subway vote, she fucked up majorly when she found an envelope addressed to her boss's wife after he committed suicide and then decided to open it, read it, and then NOT GIVE IT TO HER. Regardless of how Ashley feels about Delilah, that was not her decision to make. If everything she was doing was to honor Jon's legacy and wishes, then she should have given his goodbye letter to his widow immediately. She saw how Delilah, Sophie, and Danny were struggling with his suicide and she STILL held on to that letter for weeks (months? I can't tell what the damn timeline on this show is). It's not like his letter revealed anything incriminating, so she kept it to herself for no good reason. And I say all that as someone who doesn't even like Delilah.

I almost never eat dinner before 8pm. Mr. EB and I jokingly refer to it as being very sophisticated and European (like Elaine cutting her candy bar with a fork and knife on Seinfeld).

The actress who plays Ashley said " Because she took the letter, Ochoa says fans now constantly ask her what's inside it. She can't give anything away, but she does say that it remains vital to the story. "The envelope is a character in this story, and we will reveal what’s inside it little by little," she says. But don't expect too many answers. This is A Million Little Things, after all. Each reveal comes with a million new questions. "Eventually it will all come out," Ochoa promises. "But when we find out what’s in the envelope, it’s always going to be a partial bit of information."

Always? It can't go on 3 seasons! lol Didn't they really look at the inside of the envelope?  Was there hidden bottom? : )

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I hope they tie it up well. They made Jon so methodical but he trusted one person, no lawyer or other professional, a coworker who obviously loved him and had no other friends it seems. He forgot he had children who would be devastated, they weren't having an affair and needed their dad or at least needed to know he loved them. I'm sure we will see the Barbara video, maybe Barbara will share, before the season ends, but something just feels wrong. It's not that suicide isn't full of questions but if you show someone who seemed to know he might die in 2 years, knows things wont come to a head before then, made others beneficiaries, was able to keep it together, work, play, help his friend with cancer, etc, and then jumps off his balcony, it needs a good script to make it work.

Edited February 4, 2019 by debraran

[alexvillage]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

If he planned it for 2 years, it wasn't about the real estate deal falling through.

My point exactly. And that's why I said the writers got themselves into a mess of a plot and are now trying to change the story, making Jon this troubled man searching for himself. There is no information on this, which makes me think that someone among the writers realized that oops, we need this to drag for a couple of years, making the whole stress over the bad deal pointless to the abrupt suicide, which wasn't abrupt at all?

I liked his show for a while, the idea of the show, but it looks like this guy Nash is way over his head.

 

1 hour ago, debraran said:

The actress who plays Ashley said " Because she took the letter, Ochoa says fans now constantly ask her what's inside it. She can't give anything away, but she does say that it remains vital to the story. "The envelope is a character in this story, and we will reveal what’s inside it little by little," she says.

I find it hard to believe that any actor already knows what is going to happen with this plot but OK. 

[Bethanne]

I find it hard to believe that after being married 16+ years Delilah would have so little knowledge of her husband’s life prior to meeting her. Did they never talk in those 16 years? It’s not like the kids are toddlers—they were together for close to 2 decades. 

 

I’m wondering if Jon had terminal cancer. It might explain why he gets so triggered at Gary for not appreciating his remission. 

 

I think the actress who plays Regina is absolutely stunning and she lights up the screen during the few surface minutes they give her. 

 

Give carter his own show. 

[readster]

1 hour ago, Bethanne said:

I find it hard to believe that after being married 16+ years Delilah would have so little knowledge of her husband’s life prior to meeting her. Did they never talk in those 16 years? It’s not like the kids are toddlers—they were together for close to 2 decades. 

 

That's where you really can't suspend belief. Not knowing about his old apartment or anything. Sure, OK that was over 20 years ago, how would she know he kept it around. However, everything else, just come on! No, idea about how their fiances worked, where he went, NO FAMILY spoke of? That's too much, especially for a show set in 2018-2019. It reminds me on Cheers when Carla found out her husband, Eddie. Had married another person, had twins that were just a year younger than their two twins in the course of the 3 years they were married before they killed off his character. Where was he getting the money? They were having us believe when he was apparently "working" he would be with them and trying to believe that with Boston being such a BIG place, they never ran into each other. Then to find out at the funeral that he had been keeping all of this secret just rang that everyone was stupid. 

[TaurusRose]

2 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I find it hard to believe that any actor already knows what is going to happen with this plot but OK. 

I find it hard to believe that I’m still making any attempt to watch this mess of a show. 👀 

[doodlebug]

45 minutes ago, readster said:

That's where you really can't suspend belief. Not knowing about his old apartment or anything. Sure, OK that was over 20 years ago, how would she know he kept it around. However, everything else, just come on! No, idea about how their fiances worked, where he went, NO FAMILY spoke of? That's too much, especially for a show set in 2018-2019. It reminds me on Cheers when Carla found out her husband, Eddie. Had married another person, had twins that were just a year younger than their two twins in the course of the 3 years they were married before they killed off his character. Where was he getting the money? They were having us believe when he was apparently "working" he would be with them and trying to believe that with Boston being such a BIG place, they never ran into each other. Then to find out at the funeral that he had been keeping all of this secret just rang that everyone was stupid. 

If nothing else, Delilah was living in the same city.  Surely, at some point, they drove past the building and he told her he used to live there?  Did she never ask him about his college days?  I have several friends in this world who could tell you the name of the dorm I lived in in college even though they didn't know me then and I could do the same.  As far as John owning the building, he was a real estate guy, I can see Delilah not knowing his holdings, but surely, when they went to the building, she should've realized where they were and why it was important to Jon.

That's probably my main problem with the show.  They've pinned so much of the drama on a character who is an emotionless blank for the most part.  Delilah seems to drift through life in a daze, passively expecting her husband, her kids, her husband's friends, her husband's assistant to just handle stuff for her.  She has got to be one of the least proactive lead characters on a TV show ever.  If she's not crying, she's sitting there with a blank look on her face, waiting for someone to tell her what is happening and handle it for her.  The fact that the actress is just not up to the task only makes it worse.  If Delilah doesn't care enough to be invested in her own life and the lives of her children, why should I?

[debraran]

1 hour ago, readster said:

That's where you really can't suspend belief. Not knowing about his old apartment or anything. Sure, OK that was over 20 years ago, how would she know he kept it around. However, everything else, just come on! No, idea about how their fiances worked, where he went, NO FAMILY spoke of? That's too much, especially for a show set in 2018-2019. It reminds me on Cheers when Carla found out her husband, Eddie. Had married another person, had twins that were just a year younger than their two twins in the course of the 3 years they were married before they killed off his character. Where was he getting the money? They were having us believe when he was apparently "working" he would be with them and trying to believe that with Boston being such a BIG place, they never ran into each other. Then to find out at the funeral that he had been keeping all of this secret just rang that everyone was stupid. 

True.  Before google and internet but not now.  You signed things he gave you all the time? She acts more like a mistress than wife. I know she was focused on saving her huge home from foreclosure but that album was coming with me, not discarded on the sofa if I was her( no one I know so who cares) she doesn’t seem surprised he had a place with memorabilia or anything. Maybe her disinterest was always there  and she didn’t care as long as she had home and enough money to stay there and go to lunches etc 

I loved looking at my husbsnds old pictures and memorabilia.  It all was a part of making him what he became .

Edited February 4, 2019 by debraran

[HazelEyes4325]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I hope they tie it up well. They made Jon so methodical but he trusted one person, no lawyer or other professional, a coworker who obviously loved him and had no other friends it seems. He forgot he had children who would be devastated, they weren't having an affair and needed their dad or at least needed to know he loved them. I'm sure we will see the Barbara video, maybe Barbara will share, before the season ends, but something just feels wrong. It's not that suicide isn't full of questions but if you show someone who seemed to know he might die in 2 years, knows things wont come to a head before then, made others beneficiaries, was able to keep it together, work, play, help his friend with cancer, etc, and then jumps off his balcony, it needs a good script to make it work.

7

This is a major frustration for me with this show.  They are trying to tell a story where a person puts together an elaborate and (supposedly) mapped out plan together, but the person coming up with the story clearly has not put enough thought into it.

3 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I find it hard to believe that any actor already knows what is going to happen with this plot but OK. 

 

I don't think the actors know exactly what is going to happen, but they are usually given talking points for these interviews, so you can assume that anything any of these actors says is really coming from D.J. Nash.

3 hours ago, Bethanne said:

I find it hard to believe that after being married 16+ years Delilah would have so little knowledge of her husband’s life prior to meeting her. Did they never talk in those 16 years? It’s not like the kids are toddlers—they were together for close to 2 decades. 

 

The only way this would work is if Delilah is a far worse person than even *I* think she is.  She would have to be so massively self-involved to not know what is going on for 16+ years.  I would be delighted if this were actually the case for two reasons: First, it would show that Nash has at least *some* understanding of human behavior and put at least *some* thought into all this.  Secondly, I would no longer feel like the show is trying to gaslight me on this character.

[Aryanna]

On 2/1/2019 at 7:55 PM, ParadoxLost said:

what is going on with Delilah's hair and make up.

Her hair has been bad since episode 1.

I foresee me dropping out of this show and then reading about it on the internet when the mysteries are answered but by that time I won't care.

[topanga]

On 2/2/2019 at 10:52 AM, fountain said:

For me the jury is still out on if Jon was suffering from mental health issues or if his suicide was an exit strategy when his deals went astray so he didn’t have to face the fall. While excessive gambling with your life is a symptom of some mental illnesses, I am less inclined to be sympathetic when it seems the activity is unethical. Backroom deals and manipulating votes for the stop is what it seemed like to me but I will wait to see what more unfolds.

Great points. The why of Jon’s suicide and how it affected his friends/family are what originally drew me into the show. That, and James Roday. But the show has become a convulated nighttime soap opera, and I’m just not invested in any of the characters anymore. 

I’m trying to hang on, but the discussions in this thread interest me more than anything that happens in the episodes. So we’ll see...

[Guest]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

 

That's probably my main problem with the show.  They've pinned so much of the drama on a character who is an emotionless blank for the most part.  Delilah seems to drift through life in a daze, passively expecting her husband, her kids, her husband's friends, her husband's assistant to just handle stuff for her.  She has got to be one of the least proactive lead characters on a TV show ever.  If she's not crying, she's sitting there with a blank look on her face, waiting for someone to tell her what is happening and handle it for her.  The fact that the actress is just not up to the task only makes it worse.  If Delilah doesn't care enough to be invested in her own life and the lives of her children, why should I?

Delilah’s passivity combined with what we know about the timeline is one of my big problems. Most of the drama revolves around a woman who by all accounts was in a very happily married for over a decade. Then two years ago her husband becomes distant and begins working really long hours and yet still manages to be at the weekly pizza night, coach their daughters softball team, and perform in daddy daughter recitals. 

Then around that same time a close friend of that couple suddenly is diagnosed with cancer and the husband is determined to pull the friend through. He goes to every chemo appointment until a year ago when the friend goes into remission. 

At some point in that two years her emotionally distant husband puts a paper in front of her to sign. She signs without even skimming it. It never occurs to her that this might be a clue to what is wrong. She also doesn’t check their financial records or hire a private investigator to find out what her husband is keeping from her. Instead she feels sorry for herself until she begins an affair with her husband’s married best friend. Then she begins to plan to leave her husband at the same time her husband plans to kill himself. 

Assuming the affair lasted no longer than six months that would mean there was at most six months between Gary going into remission and the start of the affair. Six months from when Jon had a perfectly valid reason to be distant and overworked until she decided to hop into bed with Eddie. And yet, somehow I’m supposed to care about Delilah. How is Delilah not the villain?

[nexxie]

21 hours ago, possibilities said:

I like that theory, nexxie, but then I wonder why Ashley wouldn't know who she is. If she's one of the beneficiaries of the inheritance, surely he'd leave contact information, at minimum.

Or maybe Ashley does know, but was testing to find out what Delilah knows.

If Jon felt guilty about something that happened regarding Barabara, he might not share anything about her with Ashley, his employee.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

Delilah’s passivity combined with what we know about the timeline is one of my big problems. Most of the drama revolves around a woman who by all accounts was in a very happily married for over a decade. Then two years ago her husband becomes distant and begins working really long hours and yet still manages to be at the weekly pizza night, coach their daughters softball team, and perform in daddy daughter recitals. 

Then around that same time a close friend of that couple suddenly is diagnosed with cancer and the husband is determined to pull the friend through. He goes to every chemo appointment until a year ago when the friend goes into remission. 

At some point in that two years her emotionally distant husband puts a paper in front of her to sign. She signs without even skimming it. It never occurs to her that this might be a clue to what is wrong. She also doesn’t check their financial records or hire a private investigator to find out what her husband is keeping from her. Instead she feels sorry for herself until she begins an affair with her husband’s married best friend. Then she begins to plan to leave her husband at the same time her husband plans to kill himself. 

Assuming the affair lasted no longer than six months that would mean there was at most six months between Gary going into remission and the start of the affair. Six months from when Jon had a perfectly valid reason to be distant and overworked until she decided to hop into bed with Eddie. And yet, somehow I’m supposed to care about Delilah. How is Delilah not the villain?

LOVE this!  I so agree.  He did more than most distant dad/husbands.

1 hour ago, nexxie said:

If Jon felt guilty about something that happened regarding Barabara, he might not share anything about her with Ashley, his employee.

I think Jon didn’t share that secret with Ashley. I think it ate away at him and she was as clueless when googling her. I wonder is she tried to use her insurance also?  I hope not. 

[Clanstarling]

On 1/31/2019 at 7:00 PM, ams1001 said:

Why do people on TV always have dinner at 8?

I get too hungry for dinner at 8 - that's why this lady is a tramp. My European family never ate that late either, but then, we weren't exactly high rent people.

On 1/31/2019 at 8:20 PM, TheLastKidPicked said:

And why did two breakfast plates automatically mean she had a sleepover?  Isn't is possible (and actually more likely) that one of her friends knew she was having a rough time, and feeling lonely because Theo was with Eddie, and came over for breakfast?

To me, it's more likely it automatically means a sleepover. I don't think I've ever had a friend come over for breakfast - we generally go out for that.

On 2/1/2019 at 12:01 AM, Dani said:

Why is Eddie even on the tour if he I just going to show up at home every episode? Is the tour bus just circling Boston? If it’s this easy for him to come home why did he miss Christmas with Theo?

It's like the bus is the MTA, only he always returns.

 

14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I understand Delilah's anger at Ashley. Even without without all the info she withheld about the buildings and the subway vote, she fucked up majorly when she found an envelope addressed to her boss's wife after he committed suicide and then decided to open it, read it, and then NOT GIVE IT TO HER. Regardless of how Ashley feels about Delilah, that was not her decision to make. If everything she was doing was to honor Jon's legacy and wishes, then she should have given his goodbye letter to his widow immediately. She saw how Delilah, Sophie, and Danny were struggling with his suicide and she STILL held on to that letter for weeks (months? I can't tell what the damn timeline on this show is). It's not like his letter revealed anything incriminating, so she kept it to herself for no good reason. And I say all that as someone who doesn't even like Delilah.

This so much. I don't care how "helpful" she thought she was being - denying the widow the last thing her husband wrote her (and her husband wanted her to have) was awful, whatever spin she puts on it. I'd throw her out of my house too.

[readster]

9 hours ago, doodlebug said:

 

That's probably my main problem with the show.  They've pinned so much of the drama on a character who is an emotionless blank for the most part.  Delilah seems to drift through life in a daze, passively expecting her husband, her kids, her husband's friends, her husband's assistant to just handle stuff for her.  She has got to be one of the least proactive lead characters on a TV show ever.  If she's not crying, she's sitting there with a blank look on her face, waiting for someone to tell her what is happening and handle it for her.  The fact that the actress is just not up to the task only makes it worse.  If Delilah doesn't care enough to be invested in her own life and the lives of her children, why should I?

Right and why she is a hated character. She apparently had everyone just hand her everything and outside knowing how to use the bathroom. she really didn't do A DAMN THING! She signed papers without looking, never looked into if her finances were ok after Jon died. Barely knew anything that was going on with her kids. Now, we are lead to believe she had NO IDEA on Jon's life before they even met? That's too much.

[debraran]

Nice interview with Zimmer, how Nash got her (a friend) for the sole purpose of throwing some people off. I don't think many here thought she was Barbara, but still. I agree with most of what she said except Deliah's guilt. Don't really think there is any.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/01/222863/constance-zimmer-a-million-little-things-barbara-morgan-spoilers

One quote from her: "It’s really fun to get to be at a point in this business where somebody thinks that just your appearance on a show, doing one line will spark enough conversations of, 'Why did this person only do one line on this show? There’s got to be more to it.'"

This was addressed by some in earlier posts. I didn't know who she was so it didn't effect me, but it did work for others.

Edited February 5, 2019 by debraran

[pinkglove]

I still don't get demonizing Delilah so much, or seeing Katherine as a saint (despite the fact that Katherine is my fav character).

For all her faults, the former doesn't strike me as a person who would throw herself into an affair with someone so close to Jon as Eddie was without trying to fix her marriage first. It just seems like Jon was busy with many other things, mainly the mess in his head, he'd never heard her. And if I had to choose between being married to someone who cheated with one of my best friends when we were in a bad place (and unable to resolve it) and someone who never opened up to me, lied or covered up multiple things, and essentially made me live his pain without letting me know it was there (because IMO that's the only way having two faces can go), bring on the affair. Not to say that Jon is evil, obviously he had issues that were beyond his control, just that no one is evil here. Especially considering that the way I see it, Jon was never truly with Delilah. He admitted himself that only a part of him was there; it's a human thing to do to look for something more, even if you aren't able to do it graciously. I agree that she's boring though. 

I find it a little harder to understand Eddie here, but it's mostly because we barely saw or heard what happened between him and Katherine; those bits and pieces aren't enough. I hated the way he and Gary (I don't remember how others fit into this) spoke about Katherine at the beginning, as if she was evil - but that is one of the things about Eddie/Katherine that I can explain (to myself). To me, it's all Eddie's (not very mature) way to deal with what happened to his marriage and what he was doing to further destroy it; he channelled all of the anger onto Katherine, while most of it could actually be at himself. Ugly, but also human and not nearly bad enough to make someone evil. 

I was very annoyed with Regina telling Rome he needs to get back on his meds for her. I don't care if she's his wife, mother, noisy friend or whoever else, it's his body and mind, he will suffer most of the direct consequences of either taking or not taking them. Obviously, she will be affected too, but only by some of them and she can always walk away. I don't remember the details but I think it's not the first time she did something like that and I'm starting to wonder if Gary and Regina aren't playing a game of who is worse at minding their own business. (Not saying she shouldn't have an opinion on Rome taking his pills or not but the way she phrased it was just awful. If I were vulnerable, like he probably is atm, and heard something like that, it wouldn't be pretty.

I feel like it's all going nowhere. I'm bored with Jon. And with almost everyone else. I like Katherine, Theo and Maggie's pink wig but I'm not yet sure if it's enough to get me through the final episodes. 

[Court]

I'm disappointed that Constance Zimmer doesn't have a bigger role because I think she is a fantastic actress and will watch her in anything. 

Bring on Drea de Mateo

[Winston Wolfe]

On 2/1/2019 at 2:44 PM, Mrs peel said:

Heck, her statement that she didn't know any of the people in the photo album because "that was before I met him" makes no sense.  Did he NEVER talk about his college years? 

On topic of that, dismissing the photo album that way made absolutely no sense - it may have held some type of clue as to why Jon did what he did.

[jhlipton]

27 minutes ago, debraran said:

Nice interview with Zimmer, how Nash got her (a friend) for the sole purpose of throwing some people off.

Bravo for Zimmer, but this is just stupid, and shows that Nash values a "surprise" over actual character and plot.

26 minutes ago, pinkglove said:

I was very annoyed with Regina telling Rome he needs to get back on his meds for her. I don't care if she's his wife, mother, noisy friend or whoever else, it's his body and mind, he will suffer most of the direct consequences of either taking or not taking them. Obviously, she will be affected too, but only by some of them and she can always walk away.

No, just no.  Depression affects everyone around and the closer they are the more they're affected.  Moreover, it's her duty as Rome's wife to remind him that "depression is a liar".  It will lie that you're doing better and don't need those nasty pills; then it will lie that there's nothing you can do that's worth the effort.  If you know any people with depression, ask them just how needed their family and friends are.

[pinkglove]

11 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

No, just no.  Depression affects everyone around and the closer they are the more they're affected.  Moreover, it's her duty as Rome's wife to remind him that "depression is a liar".  It will lie that you're doing better and don't need those nasty pills; then it will lie that there's nothing you can do that's worth the effort.  If you know any people with depression, ask them just how needed their family and friends are.

I wasn't trying to say anything else. Just that I really, really don't agree with the way she tried to force it on him. It's one thing to be firm but for me, she crossed the line here. But it may just be me. 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Bravo for Zimmer, but this is just stupid, and shows that Nash values a "surprise" over actual character and plot.

It actually irritates me more to have confirmation that it was a deliberate fake out. If she had just appeared in the pilot and than showed up in this episode it wouldn’t have bothered me. I recognized her and I was pretty certain she wasn’t Barbara (it seemed too obvious) but I did think she would be important. But only because she was heavily featured in promos since Christmas.  Each week we keep being promised answers and we get very little. Things that were supposed to matter like the suicide note and the life insurance are built up and than fizzle out.

This fake out is one more example of a show runner who is more concerned with surprising his audience than making sure he is telling a cohesive story. He is taking the time to plan out a fake out 12 episodes in advance but we need twitter to confirm that Hunter has a son. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Guest

[doodlebug]

47 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:

On topic of that, dismissing the photo album that way made absolutely no sense - it may have held some type of clue as to why Jon did what he did.

There's also the fact that Delilah has 2 children who are devastated by their father's death and undoubtedly grasping for whatever bits and pieces they can get.  Take the album home if for no other reason than the kids probably would love to see some photos from their father's younger days.  And, maybe if she spent more than 10 seconds looking at it, Delilah could perhaps recognize someone or something from Jon's past that could comfort them and/or give them insight into him.

[HazelEyes4325]

38 minutes ago, Dani said:

This fake out is one more example of a show runner who is more concerned with surprising his audience than making sure he is telling a cohesive story. He is taking the time to plan out a fake out 12 episodes in advance but we need twitter to confirm that Hunter has a son. 

2

It makes this entire show feel like one big gimmick.

[marieYOTZ]

If i was Delilah, i would not have even mentioned that letter to the kids. “Your father wanted us all to know how much he loved me...”

[OpalNightstream]

I’m no Bronson Pinchot expert but he must have some limited acting range considering all I ever remember him is as “eccentric kooky foreigner” in perfect strangers, first wives club, and now this. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, OpalNightstream said:

I’m no Bronson Pinchot expert but he must have some limited acting range considering all I ever remember him is as “eccentric kooky foreigner” in perfect strangers, first wives club, and now this. 

I just started watching The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and he plays a completely different character. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Guest

[debraran]

10 hours ago, marieYOTZ said:

If i was Delilah, i would not have even mentioned that letter to the kids. “Your father wanted us all to know how much he loved me...”

I agree, no mention of the kids at all or if I missed it, it wasn't obvious.  "You and the 2 children were the highlight of my life" something like that would have been nice.  I don't blame Jon's character, it wasn't "real", the writing was awful. Why did you give Jon 2 kids, because it was status quo? That was the worst letter, no matter how many changes they made to it. Can we write the next one? ; )

Didn't ashley have the key to the apartment? What key did he leave her? I thought apartment and mailbox. Did she take that with her? After the subway bid was over,  nothing would have kept me from going back to that apartment just to help me understand his death. That said, we know she was moving on, is having (we presume) Eddie's baby and Jon was going to be someone she contacted over financial checks and kids graduations.   But do it for them, do it so they have a little closure and things from their dad. When Delilah said how "strong" her daughter was, I thought, no she's in shock, her dad threw himself off his balcony and was on the news and left her nothing but questions. If she knew about her mother and Eddie I'm sure she would need consoling even more but no mention of the kids getting any help. I think a show dealing with depression and anxiety, should not have a suicide without highlighting the issues left with survivors and help that is available. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by debraran

[alexvillage]

11 hours ago, pinkglove said:

I was very annoyed with Regina telling Rome he needs to get back on his meds for her. I don't care if she's his wife, mother, noisy friend or whoever else, it's his body and mind, he will suffer most of the direct consequences of either taking or not taking them. Obviously, she will be affected too, but only by some of them and she can always walk away. I don't remember the details but I think it's not the first time she did something like that and I'm starting to wonder if Gary and Regina aren't playing a game of who is worse at minding their own business. (Not saying she shouldn't have an opinion on Rome taking his pills or not but the way she phrased it was just awful. If I were vulnerable, like he probably is atm, and heard something like that, it wouldn't be pretty.

I agree. We all know that the families of disabled people - any disability, physical, developmental, mental - get overwhelmed. It is true but the focus should be the person who actually lives the disability. Regina trying to get Rome to focus on her needs adds to the stigma and the depression. People who have depression need to focus on themselves, not getting worried about others. They often already feel like they are failing, if others keep telling them that, how is this helpful?

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I agree. We all know that the families of disabled people - any disability, physical, developmental, mental - get overwhelmed. It is true but the focus should be the person who actually lives the disability. Regina trying to get Rome to focus on her needs adds to the stigma and the depression. People who have depression need to focus on themselves, not getting worried about others. They often already feel like they are failing, if others keep telling them that, how is this helpful?

True, they do need to focus on themselves as long as that focus is on their overall health and well being.  I think Regina felt that Rome stopped his meds at least in part for her, because he didn't want her to have to forego a sex life just because he was depressed. I believe that Rome felt he had failed Regina because he was on the meds, not because he'd stopped them.  I think it was healthy and absolutely caring for Regina to point out to him that she was concerned, that she thought he perhaps should consult with a doctor and then maybe resume medication.  That is the best approach to the problem that Rome was having; stopping his medication cold turkey was not.  As a loving partner, Regina was just reminding him that their sex life wasn't more important than his overall health and happiness.

While it is true that people with disabilities or illnesses shouldn't be coddled or told what to do; I didn't see Regina doing that.  I also think it is important to remember that mental health issues often lead the sufferer astray; that, in his depression, it might be difficult for Rome to see the best path and, in that case, it was appropriate that she express her concern and give him her thoughts on what to do.  She didn't call the doctor, drag him to an appointment, get the meds and force them down his throat.  She just suggested he revisit the issue of medication as the best long term plan for his illness.

I've got a brother who is bipolar. You bet that when I or my sisters see things that make us suspect that he may not be doing as well as he could be that we ask about his meds, about his doctor visits, make sure he is on track.  That's the loving response to the situation, IMO.

 

8 hours ago, debraran said:

I agree, no mention of the kids at all or if I missed it, it wasn't obvious.  "You and the 2 children were the highlight of my life" something like that would have been nice.  I don't blame Jon's character, it wasn't "real", the writing was awful. Why did you give Jon 2 kids, because it was status quo? That was the worst letter, no matter how many changes they made to it. Can we write the next one? ; )

Jon not only had 2 kids, but, by all indications he was a loving, involved father, even if Delilah thought he was a bad husband.  If Jon was such a great Dad, he surely had some thoughts about his death to share with them, messages to give them to help them understand.  However, in this show, it seems the kids aren't people, they're plot devices.  Otherwise, there would've been letters and/or videos for each of the kids.

[HazelEyes4325]

9 hours ago, Dani said:

I just started watching The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and he plays a completely different character. 

Bronson Pinchot actually has a very prestigious career in the audiobook narration field.  I think with this show, they were just trying to cash in on his previous TV fame (and I still suspect Father of the Bride was also an influence).

 

6 hours ago, debraran said:

I agree, no mention of the kids at all or if I missed it, it wasn't obvious.  "You and the 2 children were the highlight of my life" something like that would have been nice.  I don't blame Jon's character, it wasn't "real", the writing was awful. Why did you give Jon 2 kids, because it was status quo? That was the worst letter, no matter how many changes they made to it. Can we write the next one? ; )

 

I still think that Ashley wrote that letter as a way of trying to absolve her own guilt about her role in...everything.  She obviously knew what was going on AND, as far as she knew, Jon believed that Jon didn't know about Delilah's affair (and she did).  Yeah, it's clunky...but if Ashley did, in fact, write that letter, it certainly isn't the clunkiest thing in this show.

However, if Ashely didn't write the letter and this is some pathetic attempt at retconning, well...

[doodlebug]

27 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Bronson Pinchot actually has a very prestigious career in the audiobook narration field.  I think with this show, they were just trying to cash in on his previous TV fame (and I still suspect Father of the Bride was also an influence).

 

I still think that Ashley wrote that letter as a way of trying to absolve her own guilt about her role in...everything.  She obviously knew what was going on AND, as far as she knew, Jon believed that Jon didn't know about Delilah's affair (and she did).  Yeah, it's clunky...but if Ashley did, in fact, write that letter, it certainly isn't the clunkiest thing in this show.

However, if Ashely didn't write the letter and this is some pathetic attempt at retconning, well...

Small point: Bronson Pinchot was weird guy with foreign accent in Beverly Hills Cop.  Martin Short did the honors in Father of the Bride.

[jhlipton]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

1) I also think it is important to remember that mental health issues often lead the sufferer astray; that, in his depression, it might be difficult for Rome to see the best path and, in that case, it was appropriate that she express her concern and give him her thoughts on what to do.

2) I've got a brother who is bipolar. You bet that when I or my sisters see things that make us suspect that he may not be doing as well as he could be that we ask about his meds, about his doctor visits, make sure he is on track.  That's the loving response to the situation, IMO.

1) Like I said, depression is a liar.  When you have it, it makes it VERY hard to do the things you need to do in order to live well.  I'm taking a mild anti-depressant and it doesn't interfere with my sex life at all.

2) That's definitely the loving response.  My brother-in-law has several mental issues, and all of his family need to push, prod and poke him to get the help he needs.  And it's still a struggle.

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Small point: Bronson Pinchot was weird guy with foreign accent in Beverly Hills Cop.  Martin Short did the honors in Father of the Bride.

I actually didn't know that Bronson Pinchot was in BHC (I don't think I've actually seen it), but I did know that Martin Short was in Father of the Bride.  I just made that connection because Pinchot's over the top performance in this episode was so reminiscent of Short's (which was then original) performance in FotB.  And both characters were wedding planners (or something like that.  I'm not exactly sure what Berge's job was supposed to be).

[possibilities]

I thought Regina was afraid he'd kill himself if he was off his meds, and that since he'd gone off them because of his lack of libido, which didn't seem to bother him as much as her, she was trying to "fall on her sword" for his sake, not to control him for her own sake. She was saying she valued his life more than her sexy fun, so please don't go off the meds just to please her. It's almost the opposite of what the usual story is, which is the non-disabled person trying to control the disabled person for their own convenience.

I think the way this story is being handled is fatally flawed, though. They are making it seem like "meds that kill his libido" or "no meds so he'll probably just go back to being depressed and suicidal" are the only options-- without even TRYING to explore possibilities.

[HazelEyes4325]

51 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

1) Like I said, depression is a liar.  When you have it, it makes it VERY hard to do the things you need to do in order to live well.  I'm taking a mild anti-depressant and it doesn't interfere with my sex life at all.

1

Sexual dysfunction is a side effect of SSRI's for *some* people.  Also, the kind of sexual dysfunction varies among different forms of SSRI.  Rome was on citalopram, which is a newer drug and the rate for sexual dysfunction with that particular drug is less than 30% and that includes all forms of dysfunction, not just impotence.

 

6 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I think the way this story is being handled is fatally flawed, though. They are making it seem like "meds that kill his libido" or "no meds so he'll probably just go back to being depressed and suicidal" are the only options-- without even TRYING to explore possibilities.

 

Exactly,  This is what the show has told us:

1 - If you take anti-depressants, you won't be able to have sex and you won't feel like yourself.

2 - Your loved ones are willing to give up sex so that you won't kill yourself.

I am honestly shocked that mental health advocacy groups haven't spoken out about it.  Maybe they all gave up on this show too early in the season, ha!

[doodlebug]

7 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Sexual dysfunction is a side effect of SSRI's for *some* people.  Also, the kind of sexual dysfunction varies among different forms of SSRI.  Rome was on citalopram, which is a newer drug and the rate for sexual dysfunction with that particular drug is less than 30% and that includes all forms of dysfunction, not just impotence.

 

Exactly,  This is what the show has told us:

1 - If you take anti-depressants, you won't be able to have sex and you won't feel like yourself.

2 - Your loved ones are willing to give up sex so that you won't kill yourself.

I am honestly shocked that mental health advocacy groups haven't spoken out about it.  Maybe they all gave up on this show too early in the season, ha!

This happens all the time on TV shows when dealing with medical issues, though.  I remember an episode of ER where a woman came to the hospital because of severe nausea and vomiting of pregnancy (hyperemesis).  I'm an OB/GYN so I tend to remember those storylines better.  Anyway, the patient refused to take anti-nausea medication because it might harm the fetus (and maternal starvation would be ok for the kid?), her husband expressed concern that the condition could be fatal for her (if so, the first reported death from hyperemesis in history) and the ER doc actually behaved as though both of them were presenting logical points and agreed with the husband that terminating the pregnancy would be life saving for her.  For whatever reason, TV show writers seem to think that viewers are incapable of seeing subtlety or nuance and cannot imagine there might be a middle ground when considering medical options.  And, yes, if Rome has sexual side effects on Celexa, there are several reasonable alternatives that make far more sense than stopping treatment completely.  Most suicidal people aren't feeling all that sexy, either.

[HazelEyes4325]

Just now, doodlebug said:

This happens all the time on TV shows when dealing with medical issues, though.  I remember an episode of ER where a woman came to the hospital because of severe nausea and vomiting of pregnancy (hyperemesis).  I'm an OB/GYN so I tend to remember those storylines better.  Anyway, the patient refused to take anti-nausea medication because it might harm the fetus (and maternal starvation would be ok for the kid?), her husband expressed concern that the condition could be fatal for her (if so, the first reported death from hyperemesis in history) and the ER doc actually behaved as though both of them were presenting logical points and agreed with the husband that terminating the pregnancy would be life saving for her.  For whatever reason, TV show writers seem to think that viewers are incapable of seeing subtlety or nuance and cannot imagine there might be a middle ground when considering medical options.  And, yes, if Rome has sexual side effects on Celexa, there are several reasonable alternatives that make far more sense than stopping treatment completely.  Most suicidal people aren't feeling all that sexy, either.

 

One of my closest friends is a doctor and there are very few medical shows she can watch because of that (basically it was Call the Midwife, which she says is surprisingly accurate and, when it was on, House because it was so far out of reality that she didn't even see it as medicine).

I do think the difference here, though, is that this particular show is championing itself as some sort of mouthpiece for mental health awareness.  They have PSA's about it, they post about it constantly on social media, and they clearly do not know a fucking thing about it.  I think if this had just been a side plot and Nash had stopped pretending he was the savior of those with depression, it would just be another eye-roller for me.  But that's not the case and that is why it is pissing me off.