Sara Lance: The Canary Rises In White

[loki567]

I don't think it was a case that they were surprised by Sara's popularity. I think Greg Berlanti and/or Andrew Kreisberg recognized that Katie Cassidy wasn't giving them want they wanted in the role and they basically decided to do a recast while keeping Cassidy on. But they gave Sara a LOT of compelling story material: sympathetic backstory, ties to Oliver's journey, LoA past, her own sidekick. They even rewrote her scummy relationship with Oliver to be more sympathetic. I think if they had stayed on, Sara would be a regular. 

 

So what happened? Berlanti and Kreisberg went over to The Flash, Guggenheim took control, and he seems fixated on getting to write out his beloved comic characters on live television. So bye, bye, Canary. Hello, Buckles. I'm harping on it, but I feel like when Guggenheim took over sole show-running duties is when Arrow fell off the cliff. 

[Sakura12]

Apparently Caity's trying to be the real Black Canary by joining a Filipino martial arts school to learn how stick fight and from what I read how to use every day items as weapons. I guess she really enjoyed that part of playing the BC and wants to learn even more.

 

Does Marvel still have a super hero spot to fill? She needs to be back on screen kicking ass.   

Edited February 13, 2015 by Sakura12

[calliope1975]

She'd be great in the next Raid movie. And in the inevitable American remake of The Raid. 

[statsgirl]

Andrew Kreisburg said in an interview recently that he was 1/3 of the responsibility for the planning of Arrow.  I think any decision to kill off Sara would have come from all three EPs because it's that big a thing.

 

 

But yeah, I think that the EPs had no idea how much people would love Sara, or they misjudged how much people would love Sara INSTEAD of Laurel. That they would always compare the two, and that Laurel would come up wanting in every category. So I do kind of feel like there's an undercurrent of resentment at the character. (I get that feeling about OG Team Arrow too. That MG sort of resents how much people love the trio, and don't love his precious costumes.)

I think that's what happened.  In addition to being a great Canary physically, CL brought a vulnerability to Sara which made you sympathize with her and what she went through, and was in great contrast to KC who (unknowingly) played Laurel like a bitch.

 

Sara was supposed to be a place-holder till Laurel became the true Black Canary, like Billy Wintergreen was the first Deathstroke.  (Billy who?)  It must frustrate MG greatly that people won't hurt Sara and give up on her like he wants.  It's almost twisted how dead they made her, shot, dumpstered, fridged and buried, and yet people still call for her back so he's left to write Felicity saying that Laurel has a light that Sara didn't.

 

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to get rid of Felicity too because she's in the way of Laurel being the leading lady but CW, if they have any sense, won't let him.

[Sakura12]

The EP's love letter to Sara fans was to throw us in the garbage, stuff us in a refrigerator, bury us in an old grave then bring us back to watch an untrained, unskilled Laurel just get handed everything Sara worked so hard to achieve. 

 

Please stop. I don't need any more "love" letters, Guggenhiem. 

Edited February 13, 2015 by Sakura12

[Danny Franks]

Apparently Caity's trying to be the real Black Canary by joining a Filipino martial arts school to learn how stick fight and from what I read how to use every day items as weapons. I guess she really enjoyed that part of playing the BC and wants to learn even more.

 

Does Marvel still have a super hero spot to fill? She needs to be back on screen kicking ass.   

 

Marvel need to get her onboard as soon as they can. Whatever the role, she'll be great in it. And she'd have made a much better Jessica Jones than Krysten Ritter, that's for sure. She'd be a great Yelena Belova, she'd be a great Black Cat, a great Dagger (of Cloak and Dagger).

 

Hell, she'd make a great Jenny Sparks if an Authority show or movie ever happened, and even a great Tulip in Preacher (yeah, I know they're both technically DC, but they're a world away from The CW's DC).

 

But I really hope she told Guggenheim and cronies just where to stick their 'love letter'.

[GirlWednesday]

Does anyone know Caity Lotz is up to these days?

[loki567]

Looks like she's filming a movie called 400 Days with, believe it or not, Brandon Routh and Tom Cavanagh.

Edited February 14, 2015 by loki567

[Morrigan2575]

Looks like she's filming a movie called 400 Days with, believe it or not, Brandon Routh and Tom Cavanagh.

they filmed that over the summer.

[Actionmage]

Looks like she's filming a movie called 400 Days with, believe it or not, Brandon Routh and Tom Cavanagh.

 

Husband and I will spend real money to see that! Cool to hear!

[tv echo]

Black Canary (Caity Lotz, Arrow, 2013)

Every time I see Caity Lotz in that outfit, she owns me. I can't explain, but I fell in love with Caity Lotz as Sarah Lance, the first Black Canary on Arrow, as did a lot of fans. I hate that she's dead. I know there is a lot of Laurel hate, and has been since the second season, and that's mostly because the producers didn't know what to do with her. They knew they wanted her to eventually become Black Canary, but they weren't ready for her to be that just yet, so they gave us this convoluted substitute who turned out to be just so perfect that now that Laurel is wearing the Canary's tights, people resent her for it. I'm not one of them, but I also have to acknowledge that there is now a huge hole in my life that Laurel just hasn't filled. Sarah never should have been anything beyond the girl that Oliver lost on the boat. That was all she was originally meant to be, and then they pulled a bait and switch on us, and I both hate and love them for it. I am so glad that we got Sarah as Canary, but I'm also pissed that she was so good and so lovable and so just... wow that no matter what Katie Cassidy does with the role, it will always appear as though she is trying to fill her big sister's shoes, shoes that will always be just a size too big.

(Source)

Edited February 15, 2015 by tv echo

[Tangerine]

Marvel need to get her onboard as soon as they can. Whatever the role, she'll be great in it. And she'd have made a much better Jessica Jones than Krysten Ritter, that's for sure. She'd be a great Yelena Belova, she'd be a great Black Cat, a great Dagger (of Cloak and Dagger).

 

Caity would be an AMAZING Black Cat. She's one of my favourite Spidey characters.

[KirkB]

You know what, you're right. Her Canary outfit wasn't too far removed from one of Black Cat's. 

[Sakura12]

Sara's the little sister so that makes it even harder to buy Laurel has her replacement.

[BkWurm1]

You know what, you're right. Her Canary outfit wasn't too far removed from one of Black Cat's. 

It's my understanding that Black Cat was Marvel's answer to Black Canary.  A Cat vs a Canary?  By name alone, who would you expect to win? 

[KirkB]

I like your cat vs canary analogy but Marvel's answer to Black Canary was actually Mockingbird. A martial artist hanging out with an archer (Hawkeye in her case). She never really achieved the kind of popularity Dinah did though.

[BkWurm1]

I like your cat vs canary analogy but Marvel's answer to Black Canary was actually Mockingbird. A martial artist hanging out with an archer (Hawkeye in her case). She never really achieved the kind of popularity Dinah did though.

I really should Google my understanding before I write it down, lol.  Black Cat is more Marvel's version of Catwoman. 

[tv echo]

Sara's the little sister so that makes it even harder to buy Laurel has her replacement.

I noticed that a few news articles/reviews mistakenly referred to Sara as the big sister to Laurel.  Just highlights the incongruity of an older sister trying to emulate the younger sister.

[Sakura12]

I noticed that a few news articles/reviews mistakenly referred to Sara as the big sister to Laurel.  Just highlights the incongruity of an older sister trying to emulate the younger sister.

 

Or how much more mature Sara acted (ignoring her stupid plot hook up with Oliver). Sara felt older because of what she went through. Caity played Sara as world weary and tortured, while Cassidy played Laurel like an entitled brat so she acted like the younger sister. So I can see why people are confused. 

[Danny Franks]

Or how much more mature Sara acted (ignoring her stupid plot hook up with Oliver). Sara felt older because of what she went through. Caity played Sara as world weary and tortured, while Cassidy played Laurel like an entitled brat so she acted like the younger sister. So I can see why people are confused. 

 

And yet funnily enough, in the flashbacks Caity Lotz was able to make Sara seem very much the younger sister, giving her an element of playfulness and naivety. Laurel was... pretty much the same. As she always has been.

 

I'll never be able to get my head around why the people in charge of this show were so eager to throw such a talented actress and an interesting character aside, for no reason other than to provide angst for their chosen one. That's the sort of thing people should get fired for.

[Tangerine]

I've been a lot more attentive in noticing when it's actually stunt doubles doing fight sequences in the last few years. Look at this magic from CL in this GIF set, look at what you gave up, show.

[Sakura12]

This is my favorite gif set showing that Caity is actually capable doing the stunts from the show.

 

Edited February 18, 2015 by Sakura12

[KirkB]

Wow, when you see it side by side like that it makes Caity look even better (which I didn't think was possible) and them worse for getting rid of her.

[Danny Franks]

Wow, when you see it side by side like that it makes Caity look even better (which I didn't think was possible) and them worse for getting rid of her.

 

It makes no sense to me on any level. For storyline purposes, killing Sara was irredeemably stupid and needless, sure. But for economic and practical purposes, getting rid of her and having Laurel steal her skin means that they're paying Katie Cassidy more than they were paying Caity Lotz, but they also have to pay Cassidy's stunt double for a hell of a lot more work than Caity Lotz's would have had to do.

 

You've got a woman there who is absolutely tailor-made to be a vigilante hero, and you throw her away. So, so abjectly idiotic.

[tennisgurl]

It just makes no sense. It was like the writers knew they wanted to keep in cannon to the comics, but...why bother if that's not whats working? Yeah, Sara wasn't a traditional Black Canary, without the name or the back story, but she worked much better for this show. She was our Black Canary. 

 

And then she got killed stupidly, for reasons that had nothing to do with her story. Oy.

[Sakura12]

You could see the little hooks they left in place to support Sara being a bad guy. But I don't know that they were dependent upon Laurel as LI, because there were hooks really...215 and earlier. I think that they didn't know for sure how popular Sara would be. 215 filmed in early/mid January.

 

I didn't find Sara at all shady. She was stoic and had her walls up, just like Oliver did when he first came back. Which makes sense with what she's been through. She was honest about herself, more then Oliver was. She told team arrow she was an assassin. Nothing she said or did screamed possible villain route. As a Sara fan I saw someone trying to run from her past. If Sara was shady or evil she would not have befriended Sin. With Ivo, Sara did what she had to, to survive. She didn't help Ivo because she wanted to, she helped him so he wouldn't do that to her. Then she suffered from Stockholm syndrome. Ivo took care of her and taught her things. Oliver had friends on the island with Yao Fei, Shado and Slade. Sara had no one.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

I would have to agree, Sara in SC was never shady or a potential villain.  The indication from AJK and MG was that they thought about making Sara Ravager but ended up with Canary.  Any thoughts of having Sara become a villain was abandoned early on, once she was made Canary and that was in May/June.  Nothing in the narrative or the writers interviews indicates that there was potential for Sara/Canary to go evil or turn into Ravager.  I think people misunderstood AJK/MGs comments.

 

I do remember people (mostly Laurel fans as I recall) suggesting that Sara was evil in the Island flashbacks and we'd find out that she'd betray Team Island and eventually Team Arrow in SC because she was secretly working with Slade.  However, I never saw anything in the show that even remotely suggested that.

[Sakura12]

I suppose that's what caused the disconnect then. From the EP's interviews i got that once they made Sara, Canary, the Ravager story was abandoned completely. Sara was never meant to the bad guy. She was just like Oliver, trying to survive. She turned faster than Oliver did because their situations were different and she was a woman on a ship full of dangerous men. When Sara met up with Oliver again, she already let go of her old life, while Oliver was still trying to hold on to his. That didn't seem shady to me that seemed like someone that learned to adapt quickly to her new surroundings. I also believe that's why the League took her on, Sara learns quickly and does what she has to, to survive. 

Edited April 14, 2015 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah. I thought the storyline with Sara/Oliver in 304-305 was about Oliver trying to bring Sara home in a way. I viewed Sara as S1 Oliver, she was still "alone on the island" so to speak.

[Sakura12]

Exactly. Sara even said she died on the island. I think Oliver was trying to for Sara for Diggle and Felicity did for him. 

 

The only thing I saw was Oliver held on to his humanity longer than Sara did. I don't think that made her bad, just someone that didn't have much of a choice to be anything else. 

[Morrigan2575]

Exactly. Sara even said she died on the island. I think Oliver was trying to for Sara for Diggle and Felicity did for him.

Yes, that's exactly how I saw their relationship in early S2. Even towards the end after they got together romantically I thought a lot of it was tied up in Oliver trying to save Sara's humanity and.trying to hold onto the girl he knew pre-island.

The only thing I saw was Oliver held on to his humanity longer than Sara did. I don't think that made her bad, just someone that didn't have much of a choice to be anything else.

I think that had a lot to do with their situation. In S1 and early S2 plus the summer, Oliver had good people with him on the Island. Yes, bad things happened but he still had saviors/protectors (Slade, Yao Fei, Shado). Sara was all alone on a boat with a mad scientist who tortured people and a boat full of bad men (who either did or tried to rape her) and those were her "friends". If the prisoners ever escaped she would have had them to deal with too.

I never had a problem with Sara losing her humanity faster than Oliver because she really was tossed into the lion's den.

[Morrigan2575]

Done for the Arrow. The storyline I saw was Sara tried to live the life of Sara Lance but she was no longer that person, she was an assassin which is why she went back essentially rejecting the freedom that she fought so hard to win.

 

Except Sara didn't go back to her life as an assassin willingly.  She didn't skip back going Yay I'm an Assassin.  She sacrificed her life/soul in order to help Oliver/Arrow stop Slade and protect the city.  That's not the end of a story, that's the middle of a very tragic hero's story.  She made a deal with Nyssa, support of the LoA in saving Starling and in exchange Sara would go back to the Nyssa/LoA.   

 

So no, IMO her story on Arrow wasn't over nor had it run it's course.  Sara was sacrificed on the Alter of Laurel becoming Black Canary and it was a boneheaded move, because Sara being a member of the LoA would have been a better tie in to the S3 storyline than anything they've come up with this year (IMO).

[Sakura12]

The fact that the EP's said they wanted to show what happened to Sara after the Amazo, means they had more story to tell and just killed her off for Laurel. They did not think that through at all and this whole season was a mess because of it. 

 

I agree, Sara being the connection to the LOA would've been a ton more interesting then the convoluted way they introduced them. Plus I'd rather have seen Sara and Nyssa working together, since they were supposed to be in love, instead we had Sara die so Nyssa could hang around the straight sister. 

[Morrigan2575]

Yes, MG has stated repeatedly that they wanted to tell the story of what happened to Sara after the Amazo.  He said it very early summer 2014 (June/July?) and just reiterated it recently in terms of the Spin-Off.  

[Chaser]

Assuming she is the Sara we know, I could see them taking an Oliver-type route with Sara for the spin off. Flashbacks to how she went from fun-loving, college party to harden assassin and tragic heroine. I would be really interested in that evolution.

[FurryFury]

Even if the spin-off fails, I expect they'll still resurrect Sara just for it, so then she can appear on Flarrow from time to time, or even if not, at least I'll know she's alive. I wasn't watching (thankfully) and I totally expected it, but her death at the hands of Malcolm via Thea was such an undignified, stupid and disrespectful way to go. She deserved so much more.

Edited April 24, 2015 by FurryFury

[nksarmi]

The fact that the EP's said they wanted to show what happened to Sara after the Amazo, means they had more story to tell and just killed her off for Laurel. They did not think that through at all and this whole season was a mess because of it. 

 

I agree, Sara being the connection to the LOA would've been a ton more interesting then the convoluted way they introduced them. Plus I'd rather have seen Sara and Nyssa working together, since they were supposed to be in love, instead we had Sara die so Nyssa could hang around the straight sister. 

Since they really could have come up with any reason to have Laurel put on Sara's costume - I think it would have been neat to have Sara and Nyssa train her at some point.  Since I assume Sara's costume in SC was not her usual LoA gear - we could have easily seen her dressed in LoA gear with Laurel wearing the BC suit fighting side by side.  I would have loved that.

[Sakura12]

In the tie-in comics they have Sara in her Canary costume with a hood. I am interested in if Sara had an LOA costume or if she always wore her black leather with a mask. 

[kismet]

I feel like the writers just did not know how to write her story & defaulted to just killing her because it seemed they needed something for plot. I know they had all these amazing ideas, but yet they chose the easiest route. I'm eager to see if there was some be elaborate scheme to bring her back on her own accord, irregardless of the Spin-Off. But I might just be holding onto hope that there was some bigger plans afoot this season than the jumbled plot driven mess they delivered this season.

 

Honestly, I know the writers are trying move away from Original TA but they are just not good at writing scenes that include more than 3 (at most 4) actors. I feel like this is another reason they got rid of SL, there was just too many people in the foundry (esp if when they moved LL in as BC). If they want to write big team-up group dynamics, they need to change their writing/directing style. They just can't keep killing people or sending them off the show because they don't know how to write scenes that have that many players in it. Otherwise, they will just keep writing themselves into these corners & plot debacles to the demise of the characters and possibly the show.

[Lady Calypso]

They had reasons for her not to get killed off, and still have her story finished, so to speak. They sent her off to the League of Assassins for crying out loud. They didn't have to bring her back. They could have left her offscreen until the League came back into the story. There are so many more stories to tell with Sara, and they didn't have to kill her off to have Laurel become the Black Canary. They just needed to give Laurel a non-Sara death reason to become the BC. Let's say she's the one beaten and almost put to death in the season premiere. Have it motivate her somehow to fight crime. Or even if Quentin is kidnapped and beaten to almost death. It doesn't kill Sara, and even she could have made a quick phone call and saying she can't come down there to get revenge, but if she could help find the men who did this and make them pay. Laurel asks Oliver for help, but realizes that she wants to honour her sister's request directly and then goes to start getting trained. She's inspired by Sara's fight, so she takes it up herself to protect the city while her sister's away. 

 

Also, it eliminates most of the stupid Lance storyline and we don't have him gunning hard for The Arrow. A much better path is taken and he could still be angry without being super angry. Sara was absolutely killed off for plot reasons, and not because there was no more story to be told with her. She had more story in her than most of the other characters. They just bitched out and took the easy route of killing off a popular character for comics. They could have had Laurel's motivations as her wanting to help save Sara and bring her back home, but needing the training in order to do so. Man, that would have slowly started to redeem her character for me and it would have actually put a solid sisterly bond that had been wish washed for, again, plot purposes. 

 

The creators know they screwed up. They know killing Sara brought serious backlash to the show. But they should have predicted this would happen and, you know, not done it. Because irregardless of what they had as a vision, there were better ways to get it done than to kill off a popular character who wasn't taking away from Oliver, had a purpose to be on Team Arrow and could have been used better for this season. 

[Oscirus]

Except Sara didn't go back to her life as an assassin willingly.  She didn't skip back going Yay I'm an Assassin.  She sacrificed her life/soul in order to help Oliver/Arrow stop Slade and protect the city.  That's not the end of a story, that's the middle of a very tragic hero's story.  She made a deal with Nyssa, support of the LoA in saving Starling and in exchange Sara would go back to the Nyssa/LoA.

 

She wasn't dragged back kicking and screaming either. She willingly contacted them and offered her services. Do you really think that Nyssa would've turned Sara down if she asked her for help? That scene where she almost killed Roy made her realize what she actually was.  When the opportunity arose, she took it.  Her rejoining the league was basically her embracing  the dark side that she tried to keep subdued.

 

To address the second theory about her being the bridge to LOA. That wouldn't have worked. Someone had to be killed to get Raj to notice. It had to be an important member of the LOA and this person would have to know Thea well enough to allow her to kill them. Otherwise the duel to the death wouldn't have  made sense. Sara was the only person that fit the necessary criteria needed to drive the plot forward.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Oscirus

[Lokiberry]

She wasn't dragged back kicking and screaming either. She willingly contacted them and offered her services. Do you really think that Nyssa would've turned Sara down if she asked her for help? That scene where she almost killed Roy made her realize what she actually was.  When the opportunity arose, she took it.  Her rejoining the league was basically her embracing  the dark side that she tried to keep subdued.

 

To address the second theory about her being the bridge to LOA. That wouldn't have worked. Someone had to be killed to get Raj to notice. It had to be an important member of the LOA and this person would have to know Thea well enough to allow her to kill them. Otherwise the duel to the death wouldn't have  made sense. Sara was the only person that fit the necessary criteria needed to drive the plot forward.

The duel to the non-death was pointlessly stupid. The whole "Take Over for Ra's Because the Arrow is Interchangeable with Batman" was and is pointless stupid. Their casting of a random Australian footballer as Ra's Al Ghul is both pointlessly stupid and offensive. The entire season has been a huge pile of steaming cow doody. I fail to see why Sara had to die for it.

[KirkB]

Malcolm's plan, which started this whole mess, was needlessly convoluted. If he wanted to bring the League down on Starling and Oliver, why didn't he kill Nyssa? If he was trying to piss off Ra's, which works better? Killing his daughter or killing his daughter's girlfriend? Killing Sara pisses off Oliver and company and Nyssa, but Ra's--initially at least--didn't seem to care about Sara. Sara, specifically, didn't need to die to make this story line happen. The only reason to go after Sara was to get the double bill of the League being after them and getting her out of the way so Laurel could put on her mask.

[dtissagirl]

I'm pretty sure they decided to kill Sara first, and came up with the convoluted whodunit plan later, not the other way around. In all the interviews from right after 301, the EPs talked about how killing Sara gave them many story opportunities for the other characters.

[HighwayFlower]

Sara was killed to make room for Laurel to be Black Canary. It was stupid, and did not help the mess of Laurels character one bit. But they could have got to this horrible storyline a million others ways.

[statsgirl]

 the EPs talked about how killing Sara gave them many story opportunities for the other characters.

And this one was the one they picked?  Where is a facepalm gif when I need it?

 

If Sara had been kidnapped instead, Laurel could still have put on the BC mask to look for her, or to be a distraction so people wouldn't know she's missing, Ra's could still have been angry and set his sites on Oliver, and they could have tied in Amanda Waller of H.I.V.E. or whoever kidnapped her to set up next season. 

 

It would also have avoided the problem of who CL will play and how to bring Sara back alive for the spin-off.

[kismet]

I mean Vertigo Sara from ep13 (see video below) explained it perfectly herself. There really was no need for her to die. LL could have become BC for a million other reasons. SL dying does not change LL's character or every other misstep the writers did regarding LL. As for MM's big plot, it could have been any LoA member, Thea was drugged - so she wouldn't have known the difference. Honestly, there was no reason that SL needed to die other than it probably seemed like a cool idea in the writers' room at the time. But they were so enthralled with their idea, that they failed to see that in the long run it was a crippling way to deliver good characterizations & narratives. I wonder how soon it took them to realize that they made a mistake in killing SL for purely plot purposes.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnOlWhU8-1I

[KirkB]

I'd be curious to know what the EP's expected by way of audience reaction after they killed Sara. Presumably they weren't expecting people to be happy, well except for maybe anyone who hated her. Their must have been an expectation of negativity, maybe even a backlash. But I wonder, was it more vocal than they expected, that is did people react a lot more than they thought, or was it part of their plan? Because as I recall they were cracking jokes at first then started pulling back and everything went quiet. I get the feeling something more happened than they anticipated.

[calliope1975]

I'd be curious to know what the EP's expected by way of audience reaction after they killed Sara. Presumably they weren't expecting people to be happy, well except for maybe anyone who hated her. Their must have been an expectation of negativity, maybe even a backlash. But I wonder, was it more vocal than they expected, that is did people react a lot more than they thought, or was it part of their plan? Because as I recall they were cracking jokes at first then started pulling back and everything went quiet. I get the feeling something more happened than they anticipated.

 

Pure speculation, but I think they got a lot more backlash then they expected. I think they miscalculated how brutal the murder would actually come across with the unnecessary dumpster hit, and they also got a lot of heat from LGBT supporters, which I don't think they expected at all. Coupled with Thea and Merlyn's really cool story turned out to really be about Merlyn manipulating and drugging a young girl which is gross.

 

I also noticed that the backlash never truly died down. Every time Laurel took a step towards BC, Sara was repeatedly brought up again and again. I don't actually think Sara was ever part of the spin-off. I think the Atom crashed and burned, and they were desperate for positive buzz.

 

Again, that's all spec, but I can't see this being their plan all along.

Edited April 26, 2015 by calliope1975

[Sakura12]

I think what makes it worse for me is that Sara's whole deal was "No woman should ever suffer at the hands of men" then this season both her and Thea suffered at the hands of men. If those men don't pay for that, this show is really dead to me. 

Edited April 26, 2015 by Sakura12