Sara Lance: The Canary Rises In White

[Monty]

I'll throw this out: I think either Sara or Roy is going to die this season. Team Arrow has too many people on it, and they're too powerful.

[Kromm]

I'll throw this out: I think either Sara or Roy is going to die this season. Team Arrow has too many people on it, and they're too powerful.

People have been talking about Sarah dying since Day 1.  And most aren't happy for the idea, because then it builds towards the totally lame conclusion of Laurel somehow magically learning martial arts and taking over for her.

Roy is headed down a worse road possibly, but there are other possibilities besides death. Although death could be in there too if they compress a fall from grace with him and have his death be a heroic "he was a hero after all" thing.

I know the point was about Team Arrow but Quentin Lance has always seemed to have the biggest target to me, and his dying might get Sarah out of Team Arrow as a side effect without having to kill her.  Moira Queen seemed in the inevitable death pool at one point too, but I'm less sure now.  Thea is a distant possibility, but again, there are other ways they could totally fuck with her that don't have to include dying.

[quarks]

Yeah. Over on TWOP we talked about this a lot, since apart from the interviews last summer suggesting that Sara is mostly here to start Laurel's journey as Black Canary, this show certainly hasn't hesitated to drop anvils suggesting that she will die this season - right up to Quentin telling her this past episode that he can't lose a daughter, and Sara's ongoing "I'm not that easy to kill," and Sin saying she can't lose Sara and so on. Gulp.

I'm hoping not though.  I'm more interested in Sara's backstory than I am in Oliver's at this point, to be honest, mostly because it seems clear that the League of Assassins is at least not operating out of that particular island, and I think Sara has some interesting storylines ahead of her. And no, I am not just saying this because she looks hot in the Canary suit especially when she twirls the stick around or gets on the motorcycle. 

(ok, I kinda am, but let's pretend I'm not that shallow, ok?)

[Morrigan2575]

I've seen several comments that both Moira and Quentin made the exact same comment in the same episode.  So, shouldn't it be a death anvil for Thea or Sara?  Or perhaps a Death Anvil for either Quentin/Moira?

The thing I always ask myself, if you took the producers comments and the comics out of the picture what is the story being told?  What path are Laurel and Sara on "in the show"?  

I know people will argue that you can't toss out the source material but the show doesn't really follow the "source" everything they do has a twist to it. I think people focus too much on the comics and come up with all these theories as to how the show will force existing characters to fit that mold.  Like all the theories that Felicity is going to end up in a wheelchair b/c she fills the Oracle role...therefor she has to end up paralyzed.  Or my personal favorite, there was no question that Shado would end up EVOL and rape Oliver...because that's what happened in the comics....dun dun dun.

As for Roy...given how easily they side-lined him in the show, in some weird attempt to get to the "breakup' in 18, I could see them killing Roy in 23...it certainly would add more angst/pain to Oliver.  

I'll throw this out: I think either Sara or Roy is going to die this season. Team Arrow has too many people on it, and they're too powerful.

 

Damn you're putting her on the death list...you freaking called Tommy last season...not happy :(

Edited April 8, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[quarks]

Morrigan2575, speaking for me, I have no idea what path Laurel is on in this show. I am at times not entirely sure if anyone knows what path Laurel is on in this show.  Sara's on a redemption path, though, and alas, television shows have a history of tragically killing people on redemption paths.

I agree Moira's little speech was another Huge Anvil of Doom, but the difference is, that's the only Anvil of Doom I've heard for Thea or Moira. With Sara there seems to be one almost every episode - to the point where I'm kinda hoping at this point it's a fake out. 

Because it hasn't been anviled as much, Roy's death would be more surprising, and would work thematically with this season, but I thought at some point there was an interview that Roy definitely makes it to the next season? Am I misremembering this? (Quite probably.) 

Should we start a thread of Most Likely To Die At the End of This Season?

[Morrigan2575]

Because it hasn't been anviled as much, Roy's death would be more surprising, and would work thematically with this season, but I thought at some point there was an interview that Roy definitely makes it to the next season? Am I misremembering this? (Quite probably.)

They talked about Roy eventually using the code name Arsenal, when pimping out Birds of Prey and the "inside joke" of Roy hating being called Speedy.

Although, this brings up a good point, if the producer saying Roy will eventually be called Arsenal is a clear sign that he's out of the Deadpool (heh) shouldn't the producers talking about their plans for a S3 episode centered around Black Canary, Huntress and Felicity mean that Sara's making it to S3?  

Edited April 8, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[quarks]

Morrigan2575, unfortunately that assumes that Sara, not Laurel, is still the Black Canary in season three. That's the outcome I'm hoping for, granted, but I don't know if that's a safe assumption.

[pootlus]

I'd be up for a 'Death Pool' thread (provided it was for the unspoiled!).  I just happen to think they've dropped too many anvils for it to be Sara - yet, at least.

I think they might go for the Tasha Yar route and have her die suddenly and unexpectedly.

Edited April 8, 2014 by pootlus

[CabotCove]

I'll throw this out: I think either Sara or Roy is going to die this season. Team Arrow has too many people on it, and they're too powerful.

 

I hardly call 5 people too many. Even if they kill one of them, they will just be replaced by someone else next season, so what would be the point. Also the team likely hasnt even stopped growing, there is still Thea who could become speedy, and  if Sara were to die she would just be replaced as BC by Laurel, eek. If Barry Allen wasnt getting his show, he would be part of Arrow/Team Arrow and they even said they are open to bring him back if The Flash is cancelled ( which seems unlikely fortunately) So I don't really think that getting rid of Sara or Roy will make the team have any less members. 

Im certain Roy  isn't going anywhere = Arsenal. I don't know about Sara's fate, but hopefully she will be alive. 

Edited April 13, 2014 by Conell

[statsgirl]

It wouldn't be too many people if the writers  could write for multiple characters.  Unfortunately they can't.

Roy got Mirakuru-ed just before Sara came back and it would have been the perfect time to explore the effect on Roy and the people around him.  But instead he just about disappeared for 4 episodes, and then he's back in the middle of a story with Thea.  Isabel was prominent in the first part of the season and then disappeared, only to re-surface as Slade's associate.  (Even if Summer Glau weren't available, they should still have been referencing her working at QC.)  Thea who? until Slade kidnapped her. And Diggle and Felicity, part of the original Team Arrow which for many people was the best part of the show,  have barely been there between Blast Radius and Deathstroke other than Suicide Squad for Diggle and ostensibly Time of Death for Felicity (which was more about the Lance sisters than Felicity herself).

Sara is a strong character with ties to multiple characters and she's played by an actress who is great in the Black Canary persona.  But unfortunately when Sara's in the present storyline as well as the flashbacks, she tends to take over the show.  More balanced writing might be able to fix it but it hasn't so far..

[Zalyn]

It wouldn't be too many people if the writers  could write for multiple characters.  Unfortunately they can't.

It's just that the Salmon Ladder is the Mary Sue of the show and so hogs the spotlight.  ;)

[quarks]

I, for one, feel that the Salmon Ladder has been underutilized this season.  I mean, really: do we know whose side the Salmon Ladder is really on? Sure, it seems to be willing to train Oliver and Sara, and to be working directly for the CW's main goal - increased ratings. But what if its real motive is to distract Team Arrow from the real tasks at hand?  I think it's time for all of us to ask: is the Salmon Ladder working for Slade? The League of Assassins? 

I think we need to see more of the Salmon Ladder to answer this question. With either Oliver or Sara on it, of course. 

[Zalyn]

Sarmon Lander OTP!

[CabotCove]

Roy got Mirakuru-ed just before Sara came back and it would have been the perfect time to explore the effect on Roy and the people around him.

Wouldnt that have been too soon since Mirakuru does take time to affect an individual. Roy seems to be spiralling out of control the longer he is on Mirakuru, he is not as much in control as he was earlier. So to me it seems like they needed time for this story to play out, so while not focus on other stories in the meantime. Same with isabel storyline, she needed time to gain Oliver's trust, so it had to take a few episodes to get there . I do agree though the show has way too many stories & characters and  they need to cut some lose next season. 

And Diggle and Felicity, part of the original Team Arrow which for many people was the best part of the show,  have barely been there between Blast Radius and Deathstroke other than Suicide Squad for Diggle and ostensibly Time of Death for Felicity (which was more about the Lance sisters than Felicity herself). Sara is a strong character with ties to multiple characters and she's played by an actress who is great in the Black Canary persona.  But unfortunately when Sara's in the present storyline as well as the flashbacks, she tends to take over the show.  More balanced writing might be able to fix it but it hasn't so far..

But they were shown a lot  in the first 10 episodes of the season, if the trio doesnt take a backseat then where is the time to focus on lesser shown characters like Thea for e.g going to come from. Even though I dislike laurel, the break from the trio also gave them time to do something with her.  The upcoming episodes and towards the finale sounds like they will be Roy heavy.  im all for cutting back Sara's screentime and centric episodes in the long run, but if she is not going to be here next season. Then this season is all the time they have to tell and tie up her storyline, so I really dont think its much of a loss for other characters since they will have all the time in the world to be focused on. If she is staying then I wouldnt mind seeing season 3 focusing more on another character's backstory, and they are potential storyline with Felicity's backstory or if Thea is going to become Speedy. 

Edited April 16, 2014 by Conell

[Carrie Ann]

Right, I think the way this show works, it's never going to be like a procedural or a sitcom, where every episode has 2-3 scenes with each series regular. Depending on the season-long arc and the episode-specific mission, certain characters will feature heavily with Oliver, and others will barely appear if at all. I'm OK with that, but I do think that so far, Original Team Arrow is the most appealing combination. I think that's sort of the general consensus (not just with super-fans or shippers, but with critics, etc.), so when we're missing that for even a couple of episodes, the show lacks a certain spark. The writers might do well to keep that dynamic central to the show, with the other characters sharing time around it. So, more Sara might equal less Roy/Thea, but it wouldn't mean less Diggle/Felicity.

But here we are. I think to some, it seems like she's taken over the show, but I just think Sara is critical to the Slade story and Diggle and Felicity aren't. So we have Sara in the flashbacks because of Slade, and we have Sara in the current story because of Slade. They're building to a big showdown here, and she, Oliver, and Slade are intertwined. Also, in terms of Oliver's growth, it's interesting to see the conflict between the person he was on the island and the person he is/is trying to become now--and then to see how he compares to/interacts with Sara in those situations. You can see how Sara was more pragmatic and pessimistic than he was to begin with, and even though she seems to have come away from the LoA with a lot of humanity intact, she still does lean toward the simple (lethal) solution rather than deal in gray areas.

[quarks]

Same with isabel storyline, she needed time to gain Oliver's trust, so it had to take a few episodes to get there .

 

Conell, I could not agree with this statement more, but answering over in the more general thread since it's an Isabel, not Sara thing.

[Lisin]

Guys, I'm not going to move anything at the moment but lets try to keep on topic here. If you want to discuss the characters together move it over to the general topic please. Thanks! 

[CabotCove]

So, more Sara might equal less Roy/Thea, but it wouldn't mean less Diggle/Felicity.

 

 

I dont care about quantity, I like quality better. I wouldnt mind if Sara has a reduced role and screentime next season as long as she will have quality storylines. 

[marketdoctor]

I think Sara has the same problem Felicity did:  she was originally there to fill a role (in Sara's case, be the Black Canary until Laurel is ready), but between the actress and the writing, that doesn't fit well.  The writers are almost stuck--they've got an actress perfect for the role in Sara, but the more they stall the "Laurel becomes Canary" story, the worse it gets. 

 

I'd like to see them go another way, and let the anvils fall on Laura, *saving Sara*, who decides to become a lawyer to honor her sister.  That'd be true to the broad outlines of the comic, give Sara some quality stories, and let them keep using an actress who's a natural for the part.

 

Ordinarily I'd say it's too late for that to happen, but it's a comic book universe, ret-conning can happen for all kinds of reasons.

[quarks]

That's a pretty cool story: juggling law school and bartending while fighting crime at night?  I like it.  Provides all kinds of storytelling opportunities.

[bravelittletoaster]

So I'm unspoiled and maybe there are obvious answers out there, but they seemed to be writing Sara out at the end of the last episode with her leaving town?  I hope that's not permanent if that's the case.  My interest in this show has become pretty hitched to her and her abs.

[quarks]

bravelittletoaster, there are

several indications that Sara will be back at least for the season finale (specifically there's a picture of Lotz reading the script) although unfortunately there has not been a single indication that she will showing her midriff at any point during that episode,

which, speaking just for me, I find to be a shocking lapse on the part of the publicity department.  I mean, they do know why we are tuning in, right?

Edited April 27, 2014 by quarks

[bravelittletoaster]

I hope so.  I need to see her do the salmon ladder one more time, too.  For science.

[quarks]

My thoughts will be as scientific as yours, I'm sure. 

[TwistedandBored]

Now I understand why Sara broke up with Oliver. So, Laurel can give Oliver that pep-talk without it being weird. I think Sara was more needed in the last episode than Laurel. Glad to hear she is coming back with Nyssa. 

Edited May 4, 2014 by TwistedandBored

[KirkB]

I just realized why we haven't seen the salmon ladder for a while. Sara must have taken with her when she left.

[Alibelle]

Well, SOMEONE needed to save the salmon ladder from Isabel.

[quarks]

If true, that's arguably the most important and heroic thing Sara has yet done on the show. She may never be able to top it.

[Zalyn]

So she's leapt the salmon?

[Sakura12]

I just realized why we haven't seen the salmon ladder for a while. Sara must have taken with her when she left.

Sara probably noticed that Sally was feeling neglected since Oliver never notices anything unless it directly involves him.

[pootlus]

Perhaps IKEA will start selling flat-pack Salmon Ladders.

[bravelittletoaster]

All I know is I should just be spoiled for this show because I spent the entirety of this week's episode worrying that they were going to kill off my precious eye candy. I squeed like a little fan girl though when Sara was officially dubbed the canary, and I found that Laurel's pride and support of her made me like Laurel more. Heh.

I'm so glad everyone knows who everyone is now. Secret identities are always my least favorite part of superhero shows.

[KirkB]

Not quite everyone. Thea is still in the dark. But I agree with you.

[slayer2]

Just chiming on on the Sara/CL love. Honestly if they spun-off a BoP show with her at the helm I reckon I'd be more inclined to watch it than Arrow. It's great to see Oliver and SA salmon laddering it up but watching Sara/CL fight crime and Sally is even more relatable to me and I find the character more accessible. There's such a soft-spoken sweetness to Caity's portrayal even whilst she's surrounded by hard edges. I'm fascinated by the character and invested in a way I'm just not with Oliver.

[Sakura12]

Sara managed to have this soft vulnerability while also looking like she could kick your ass. I think that's what really drew me to CL's portrayal of Sara. 

[slayer2]

Yep, there's so much more there than just a cold exterior. Caity can play soft and empathetic, and hard and apathetic with equal fanfare. She's absolutely a triple if not quadruple threat.

[Sakura12]

I think that's the difference with Laurel, she's all hard edges, unapproachable and somehow still managed to look weak. Which is an accomplishment.

[slayer2]

Caity Lotz posted a pic on her instagram of what I presume is her backyard and her laptop, with the caption that she was working whilst hummingbirds battled each other. Wonder if she's working out a script or just sussing through opportunities...

[statsgirl]

 

Sara managed to have this soft vulnerability while also looking like she could kick your ass. I think that's what really drew me to CL's portrayal of Sara.

I think this is one of the reasons she works so well as the Black Canary.  Yes, she's an assassin and can kick anyone's butt, but she's also vulnerable, emotional in a good way as opposed to a glass-throwing way, and  you can really feel for her.

[Sakura12]

Sara has control of her emotions, we barely ever see her have emotional outbursts like we have with Oliver and Laurel. Even pre-Gambit Sara stayed calm while Laurel was yelling about her fantasy world being Mrs. Oliver Queen. That's is another important trait of the Black Canary her ability to stay calm in high stress situations is what makes her able to think on her feet quickly. Oliver would get too emotionally involved and Canary got him to think clearly. 

 

So there is yet another trait of the Black Canary that was given to Sara. 

[icandigit]

I'm going to miss their dynamic. She is such a pragmatic and shrewd character that was a good balance to emotional and surprisingly naive Oliver.  I didn't think the decision to want put down Roy was necessarily a wrong one.

[bravelittletoaster]

I'm just glad they didn't kill her off--pretty much all I really wanted from the finale was for Sara not to die.  I hope they'll bring her back next year.  She'd make a good foil for Oliver.  Not an adversary, per se, but they have very different philosophies so I'd like to continue to see them squaring off against each other.

[slayer2]

I'm pretty sure she's going to be back. She reminds me of Green Arrow on Smallville (ironically) he went through a dark time too on that show and there was a time when I could really only tolerate Clark on the show because he was their calling him out and being the better hero IMO. That's how I feel about Sara, I'm more often aligned with her idea of justice and what's right and wrong than Oliver's. I didn't necessarily agree with her view on Roy but I bet Roy would have agreed especially when he knew how close he came to hurting Thea.

[Sakura12]

Roy asked Sara to kill him. He must've had a moment of clarity and he knew he couldn't control himself from hurting people. 

 

That's another thing I don't get, they keep telling us Sara's nothing but a killer, but she had a chance to take the kill shot with Roy twice and she didn't take it. The first time she shot him in the leg then she had plenty of time to do it and didn't. 

Edited May 21, 2014 by Sakura12

[pootlus]

I want to see Sara back, but on the other hand if she's just going to be used for Laurel-propping I'd rather she stood on a rusty nail in Tibet and died of sceptacaemia. Caity deserves better, for a start.

Still hoping that there'll be a BoP announcement at Comic-Con.

[bravelittletoaster]

Do you really think that's a possibility? Because that would be awesome.

On an unrelated note, I was happy to see Caity return to Mad Men for a B plot a couple weeks ago, though those abs of hers I'm such a fan of were in decidedly different form... :)

Edited May 21, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[KirkB]

Can they really do BoP while Sara is with the LoA? Because while Nyssa let her go the first time, I don't know if Ra's would let her do it again.

[slayer2]

I want to see Sara back, but on the other hand if she's just going to be used for Laurel-propping I'd rather she stood on a rusty nail in Tibet and died of sceptacaemia. Caity deserves better, for a start.

Still hoping that there'll be a BoP announcement at Comic-Con.

When's comic-con?

[calliope1975]

Comic-Con is the last weekend in July.

[bluebonnet]

I kinda hope that Sara and Nyssa work to change the MO of the LoA.  Nyssa got to see what it takes to not immediately resort to murder and it might be something that would be useful to the LoA going forward.  It would make me more comfortable with Sara returning to an assassin group if the intent was to change the way that group operated.