S03.E08: Gilman Springs Road

[Sew Sumi]

Quote

Scientology's International Base houses the church's most dedicated members; four former high-ranking residents of the compound reveal their shocking stories behind the locked gates.

Airs January 15, 2019

[b2H]

I am getting the impression, first, that this is the final episode of this particular season.  But I am also beginning to question how it is, even with the 2009 FBI investigation, how this continues to persist, witnesses and all.

Edited January 16, 2019 by b2H

[DC Gal in VA]

39 minutes ago, b2H said:

I am getting the impression, first, that this is the final episode of this particular season.  But I am also beginning to question how it is, even with the 2009 FBI investigation, how this continues to persist, witnesses and all.

I also wonder the same thing b2H. I love this show although every time I watch it I always come away wondering how much evidence/witness statements does law enforcement need to nail somebody for all of the abuse that goes on in this organization? Furthermore, it is apparent to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together that this less a religion and more of a money grubbing, financial shakedown organization, like a Ponzi scheme in steroids. What kind of "religion" requires its members to literally have to buy membership into their church? And if the IRS can take down Al Capone as well as many more criminals, why can't they go after Scientology? I hope that Leah et al can eventually succeed in getting their tax exempt status yanked.

[3girlsforus]

A few thoughts from last night:

1) I didn’t think I could feel worse for Rinder but the thought that he had to see Miscaviage in his bathrobe every morning just made me want to puke LOL

2) I think the FBI is in a tough spot here. First, the first hand accounts of physical abuse against those on the show last night are quite likely past the statute of limitations. I understand that. But they pulled out the woman at the end whose name escapes me and she was quite recent. But the problem I see is that everything she said was about witnessing abuse of those who are still there. From what I could tell she wasn’t hit herself. Sure that’s current but to prosecute they need the actual victim to say it happened. It won’t happen. If the FBI shows up those people will say it’s crap and unless they are visibly injured the authorities won’t be able to do anything. It sucks. I’m sure they are upset about it too. It’s like trying to get an abused woman to leave her husband. The authorities can only step in if they actually see physical damage and even then if the woman won’t lodge a complaint they can’t do much. The laws for that are changing some but it’s still not perfect and varies between states. As far as proving these people are being held, it isn’t illegal to have a stupid amount of security so again someone behind the wall would have to say they are being held against their will. I don’t know about the woman they had on at the end. Maybe if she could prove she was held and unable to leave they have a case for her but I’m sure Scientology would say ‘well of course she could leave - she isn’t here anymore’. Psychological and emotional captivity is very difficult from a legal perspective.

3) If they want to get Miscaviage for his physical abuses they are going to have to get someone who has just blown from Gold who himself was attacked and that person goes straight to authorities. 

4) I continue to laugh that everything someone on the show says something they throw up the response from Scientology claiming it’s a lie. To me that’s the biggest evidence that it isn’t a lie. Scientology is a very litigious group. They have a LOT of lawyers. If these people were really going on TV and making up stories, Scientology would sue their butts off for slander (or is it libel - I always get those mixed up). But they can’t because it’s not slander/libel if its true.

5) Rinder talked about being trotted out to say he was fine and they trotted out the wives to say their ex-husbands were nuts. Makes me even more scared for Shelley. The fact that they haven’t trotted her out doesn’t bode well for her condition. 

6) I still think the answer is financial. They need to get enough evidence of financial shenanigans to get a search warrant. Then these other documents etc could help with other cases against Miscaviage himself for physical abuse etc. The wheels of justice turn VERY VERY slowly. I’m hoping there is a lot going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. 

[libgirl2]

Not sure if anyone saw this, but the cult is blaming Leah and Mike for a stabbing in Australia. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/01/16/blood-your-hands-scientology-blames-high-profile-critics-after-deadly-sydney-attack/?utm_term=.7a0243eb7257

[Pondlass1]

It's so frustrating but I don't think law enforcement will be able to do anything about anything.  The law always needs proof to take action and if the brainwashed parishioners keep blabbering that it's all ok, then this is never going to happen.  Unless someone can sneak in a cell phone and film the abuse and post on YouTube or somehow rig up security cameras nothing will happen no matter how many horrendous stories are told to the FBI.  It's all hearsay without proof.

I think it will be the IRS that finally takes this cult down.  If the CO$ loses its tax exemption status that will end it all.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Pondlass1

[DC Gal in VA]

13 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Not sure if anyone saw this, but the cult is blaming Leah and Mike for a stabbing in Australia. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/01/16/blood-your-hands-scientology-blames-high-profile-critics-after-deadly-sydney-attack/?utm_term=.7a0243eb7257

Oh Dear Lord libgirl2 I did see that ridiculous story. I am sure that my mouth was hanging open the entire time that I was reading it. You mention libel/slander in your previous post and how they love to accuse Leah and A&E of being liars, as well as every guest/survivor they've had on the show. Well, didn't the Co$ reps who stated this crap also engage in lies and couldn't they be sued for it? I have no idea save to say that perhaps there's a method to their madness since they made the original allegations to an Australian news outlet which may have very different laws than here in the States. I see that your link is to the Washington Post --my hometown newspaper--but I wonder if they are just reporting what was originally reported in Australia?

Great detailed post on why these creeps haven't been successfully prosecuted. I want to respond to that later but I needs mah coffee first, lol! 

[libgirl2]

15 minutes ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Oh Dear Lord libgirl2 I did see that ridiculous story. I am sure that my mouth was hanging open the entire time that I was reading it. You mention libel/slander in your previous post and how they love to accuse Leah and A&E of being liars, as well as every guest/survivor they've had on the show. Well, didn't the Co$ reps who stated this crap also engage in lies and couldn't they be sued for it? I have no idea save to say that perhaps there's a method to their madness since they made the original allegations to an Australian news outlet which may have very different laws than here in the States. I see that your link is to the Washington Post --my hometown newspaper--but I wonder if they are just reporting what was originally reported in Australia?

Great detailed post on why these creeps haven't been successfully prosecuted. I want to respond to that later but I needs mah coffee first, lol! 

I saw the story at several news sites as well. Here is an Australian news article. 

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/scientologys-bizarre-reason-for-fatal-stabbing/news-story/9671b791e1eeb9bde56b68b181d8b30c

[b2H]

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

6) I still think the answer is financial. They need to get enough evidence of financial shenanigans to get a search warrant. Then these other documents etc could help with other cases against Miscaviage himself for physical abuse etc. The wheels of justice turn VERY VERY slowly. I’m hoping there is a lot going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. 

I think someone said this on one of the recent episodes, but a good forensic accountant could make very short work of this.

[BonnieD]

Quote

I’m hoping there is a lot going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. 

I truly believe there is. The FBI may have infiltrated with agents, the same way they have plants in gangs, mobs, and subversive groups like Neo Nazis. Someone could be in there, slowly building an airtight case. AT least that's what my imagination wishes.

[kicotan]

The main problems with prosecuting CO$ that I can see is:

1). everyone appearing on Leah’s show are adults-if children were being allegedly abused a la FLDS, it would be a different story.

2). these adults coming forward now either signed affidavits declaring no abuses were witnessed and everything's Hunky-dory and/or have been filmed, like Mike Rinder, saying everything is groovy.  Goes to credibility.

3). folks like Claire Headley who claim she witnessed a thousand incidents of abuse and was “upper management” at the time are going to be questioned/possibly prosecuted if the organization is found guilty of said abuse because how could a person witness/not report/be complicit 1,000 times?  Goes to co-conspiracy.

4). CO$ Legal wrangling tactics are what have gained them the religious status they enjoy today~they are, in DnDspeak, the theoretical rolling of a 78 on Stealth.

and, finally, my conspiracy theory that trumps all of the previous stuff:

5).  Imagine back in the day if you had polaroids of J. Edgar Hoover in drag.  It is quite possible with the enormous amount of $ and effort the CO$ has spent/currently spends on PI that they’ve uncovered some similar secret/continue to uncover dirt on certain folk that has kept them/keeps them immune.

[iMonrey]

I think the strongest argument this episode made is that all of these people telling the exact same story can't be liars. There are just too many credible reports and no motive to tell these lies. 

It seemed like there was an increase in disclaimer cards in this episode, almost as if A&E is getting more nervous about this. Leah herself mentioned the cards in this episode. But they are just so bizarre. Didn't one of them actually say something to the effect of "you should hear some of the stories we have on so-and-so." What the hell kind of a "church" is this?

[libgirl2]

14 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I think the strongest argument this episode made is that all of these people telling the exact same story can't be liars. There are just too many credible reports and no motive to tell these lies. 

It seemed like there was an increase in disclaimer cards in this episode, almost as if A&E is getting more nervous about this. Leah herself mentioned the cards in this episode. But they are just so bizarre. Didn't one of them actually say something to the effect of "you should hear some of the stories we have on so-and-so." What the hell kind of a "church" is this?

I was thinking the same, all these people can't be lying. The problem is, as stated by kicotan, that people denied any wrong doing or abuse at the time.

Those statements were really bizarre. This cult is bizarre. 

[DC Gal in VA]

1 hour ago, kicotan said:

The main problems with prosecuting CO$ that I can see is:

1). everyone appearing on Leah’s show are adults-if children were being allegedly abused a la FLDS, it would be a different story.

2). these adults coming forward now either signed affidavits declaring no abuses were witnessed and everything's Hunky-dory and/or have been filmed, like Mike Rinder, saying everything is groovy.  Goes to credibility.

3). folks like Claire Headley who claim she witnessed a thousand incidents of abuse and was “upper management” at the time are going to be questioned/possibly prosecuted if the organization is found guilty of said abuse because how could a person witness/not report/be complicit 1,000 times?  Goes to co-conspiracy.

4). CO$ Legal wrangling tactics are what have gained them the religious status they enjoy today~they are, in DnDspeak, the theoretical rolling of a 78 on Stealth.

and, finally, my conspiracy theory that trumps all of the previous stuff:

5).  Imagine back in the day if you had polaroids of J. Edgar Hoover in drag.  It is quite possible with the enormous amount of $ and effort the CO$ has spent/currently spends on PI that they’ve uncovered some similar secret/continue to uncover dirt on certain folk that has kept them/keeps them immune.

Very good, but depressing, observations kicotan. Interesting that you mentioned the FLDS since this topic reminded me of that convicted misogynist/tyrant/pedophile Warren Jeffs. It is my understanding that all of the abuse took place over decades before law enforcement was finally put him in prison for life. As egregious as all of the allegations were, it still took years of investigation, prosecution and multiple child sex abuse victims having to come forward and testify against that monster in open court.

As you and others here have said, unless someone or several someones have the courage to come forward with statements to law enforcement very soon after leaving/escaping from this "religion" preferably with visible injuries or some kind of photographic and/or video evidence, I fear that the abuse will continue unpunished. As for the financial shenanigans, I will quietly light a candle of hope for an IRS investigation.

BTW, I found this Wikipedia link about Warren Jeffs:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs

Also anyone who clicks on it and pans down that page will see that, unknown to me, he had a special place in his heart for Black folks. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. 😏

[geekgirl921]

I would hope that after this show and books like Lawrence Wright's that less and less people are actually joining the "church" but the problem is they still have so much money to be able to fight charges. 

[juliet73]

4 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

It’s like trying to get an abused woman to leave her husband. The authorities can only step in if they actually see physical damage and even then if the woman won’t lodge a complaint they can’t do much.

This!  *How many times have we heard women being threatened by a husband/boyfriend that she will be killed and/or her children will be hurt/killed if she goes to the police. When the cops show up at the front door, she lies and says it was a misunderstanding, he didn't hit her; she fell down the stairs, etc and they never press charges.  Wash. Rinse. Repeat.  The show mentioned the first thing that everyone has to do when they get to Gold Base is take the course on how to lie to the authorities.  So similar to domestic violence calls, law enforcement shows up because someone is concerned about a member's safety (like Shelly).  Member lies and says "I'm not being harmed.  I want to be here.  It's paradise."  Obviously, they know not to go off script because they've already experienced or have seen what happens when members don't obey the rules.

1 hour ago, kicotan said:

The main problems with prosecuting CO$ that I can see is:

1). everyone appearing on Leah’s show are adults-if children were being allegedly abused a la FLDS, it would be a different story.

They had a couple episodes last season about the sexual and physical abuse of kids inside the Co$.  I believe there was an audio recording of a child getting beat and nothing was ever done about it.  Again, the children are trained and threatened (like the adults) to lie and say everything is great.  

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I think the strongest argument this episode made is that all of these people telling the exact same story can't be liars. There are just too many credible reports and no motive to tell these lies

Agree!  And they've been telling these stories long before Leah and the show became involved.  I don't know if A&E is paying them for appearing, but I doubt they were getting paid years ago so they didn't have anything to gain back then or today for that matter.   What I find interesting is when you hear these stories of abuse from ex members, they all have similar stories about getting beat up, humiliated, etc by DM.  However, when you listen to the ex wives of these members - the ones that were talking to Anderson Cooper and denying any wrongdoing by DM, they all had the EXACT same response of "I've slept with so and so for over 20/30 years and I knew every inch of him and I never saw ..." Those same rehearsed answers are very telling, IMO.  

 

*Note:  I don't mean any disrespect to anyone in a domestic violence situation by comparing it with the Co$.  

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

This!  *How many times have we heard women being threatened by a husband/boyfriend that she will be killed and/or her children will be hurt/killed if she goes to the police. When the cops show up at the front door, she lies and says it was a misunderstanding, he didn't hit her; she fell down the stairs, etc and they never press charges.  Wash. Rinse. Repeat.  The show mentioned the first thing that everyone has to do when they get to Gold Base is take the course on how to lie to the authorities.  So similar to domestic violence calls, law enforcement shows up because someone is concerned about a member's safety (like Shelly).  Member lies and says "I'm not being harmed.  I want to be here.  It's paradise."  Obviously, they know not to go off script because they've already experienced or have seen what happens when members don't obey the rules.

They had a couple episodes last season about the sexual and physical abuse of kids inside the Co$.  I believe there was an audio recording of a child getting beat and nothing was ever done about it.  Again, the children are trained and threatened (like the adults) to lie and say everything is great.  

Agree!  And they've been telling these stories long before Leah and the show became involved.  I don't know if A&E is paying them for appearing, but I doubt they were getting paid years ago so they didn't have anything to gain back then or today for that matter.   What I find interesting is when you hear these stories of abuse from ex members, they all have similar stories about getting beat up, humiliated, etc by DM.  However, when you listen to the ex wives of these members - the ones that were talking to Anderson Cooper and denying any wrongdoing by DM, they all had the EXACT same response of "I've slept with so and so for over 20/30 years and I knew every inch of him and I never saw ..." Those same rehearsed answers are very telling, IMO.  

 

*Note:  I don't mean any disrespect to anyone in a domestic violence situation by comparing it with the Co$.  

I thought the same exact thing. It seemed an odd thing to say too. I would never say something like that.... maybe, "we were married for x amount of years and he would know he could trust me with anything and he never said a word"

Edited January 16, 2019 by libgirl2

[DC Gal in VA]

1 hour ago, juliet73 said:

This!  *How many times have we heard women being threatened by a husband/boyfriend that she will be killed and/or her children will be hurt/killed if she goes to the police. When the cops show up at the front door, she lies and says it was a misunderstanding, he didn't hit her; she fell down the stairs, etc and they never press charges.  Wash. Rinse. Repeat.  The show mentioned the first thing that everyone has to do when they get to Gold Base is take the course on how to lie to the authorities.  So similar to domestic violence calls, law enforcement shows up because someone is concerned about a member's safety (like Shelly).  Member lies and says "I'm not being harmed.  I want to be here.  It's paradise."  Obviously, they know not to go off script because they've already experienced or have seen what happens when members don't obey the rules.

I really do feel sorry for any person in that circumstance and understand the fear and intimidation they must feel. However, IMHO, that's not exactly the same situation for Shelly.

First of all, are there small, dependent children in the picture? I don't think so (please correct me if I am wrong). If not, then she doesn't have that reason to stay motivated by fear of what will happen to them.

Which leads me to my second point and that is when the cops--I think someone said LAPD did actually show up--and asked if she wanted to leave, she could have said "Yes, absolutely, they have been holding me against my will, so get me the Hell outta here!" What exactly could Miscavige and his Borg drones have done; have a running gun battle with the police right there on the spot? I don't think so. Now, I have read here and elsewhere that some feel that some members of the LAPD have been bought off by Co$, but certainly that can't include the entire department.

Lastly, she will then have quite a deck of cards to play and file both civil and criminal charges against the organization, as well as provide corroboration for all of those who accused Miscavige and others of physical abuse AND be able to tell the FBI and, most importantly, the IRS, where all the financial "bodies" are buried. Co$ would really be stuck on stupid if they try to harass her. But, since Co$ loves to stalk and terrorize people when they leave and may not be able to help themselves, I don't think she'll have any problem having a judge sign a restraining order against them or their paid minions like private investigators.

I am not saying that this will be in any way easy for her. It will be damned hard and she should definitely expect to be be declared a suppressive, a liar, crazy, etc. as well as have people she thought were her friends and even any relatives she has in the "church" turn their backs on her. But everyone who has left has experienced great heartache and loss and it will take time to deal with the extensive brainwashing she has experienced. However, Leah, Mike Rinder, and many others have done it and are now living free and much better lives.

One can only dream.

Edited to add: I wanted to say that my heart goes out to this woman. I would like to believe that she joined/stayed so long because she really wanted to do positive things for people and the planet and believed her husband felt the same way but, at some point, something or a whole bunch of somethings went sideways and we have the situation we have today with her not being seen publicly since 2007.

I can only think of three reasons for that:

1. She isn't being held hostage and really is living in paradise. Um, nope, I don't believe that for a second btw.

2. She isn't "technically" being held hostage since she's been brainwashed to believe she caused it and deserves it.

 3. She really is being held against her will.

Actually, there's a fourth reason but I just don't want to go there.

Edited January 16, 2019 by DC Gal in VA
Additional comments.

[Omeletsmom]

59 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

This!  *How many times have we heard women being threatened by a husband/boyfriend that she will be killed and/or her children will be hurt/killed if she goes to the police. When the cops show up at the front door, she lies and says it was a misunderstanding, he didn't hit her; she fell down the stairs, etc and they never press charges.  Wash. Rinse. Repeat.  The show mentioned the first thing that everyone has to do when they get to Gold Base is take the course on how to lie to the authorities.  So similar to domestic violence calls, law enforcement shows up because someone is concerned about a member's safety (like Shelly).  Member lies and says "I'm not being harmed.  I want to be here.  It's paradise."  Obviously, they know not to go off script because they've already experienced or have seen what happens when members don't obey the rules.

They had a couple episodes last season about the sexual and physical abuse of kids inside the Co$.  I believe there was an audio recording of a child getting beat and nothing was ever done about it.  Again, the children are trained and threatened (like the adults) to lie and say everything is great.  

Agree!  And they've been telling these stories long before Leah and the show became involved.  I don't know if A&E is paying them for appearing, but I doubt they were getting paid years ago so they didn't have anything to gain back then or today for that matter.   What I find interesting is when you hear these stories of abuse from ex members, they all have similar stories about getting beat up, humiliated, etc by DM.  However, when you listen to the ex wives of these members - the ones that were talking to Anderson Cooper and denying any wrongdoing by DM, they all had the EXACT same response of "I've slept with so and so for over 20/30 years and I knew every inch of him and I never saw ..." Those same rehearsed answers are very telling, IMO.  

 

*Note:  I don't mean any disrespect to anyone in a domestic violence situation by comparing it with the Co$.  

They specifically said they were NOT getting paid.  They have nothing to gain from this.  I'm sure they are telling the truth.

[ramble]

These stories are often so bizarre that they seem made up, but I believe them. The exact wording of the ex-wives saying “every inch of his body” stuck me too. It sounds so rehearsed. I imagine Davey had to beat up someone once that interview was aired and that fact was noted.

The thought of such a little man with such a fragile yet giant ego needing to take a grown man’s work and make fun of him in front of his peers and then beat him is mind boggling. Davey boy must be unhappy and angry most of the time. He’s always looked a bit manic to me as well. He and his tiny buddy Tom seem like they are always running on too much electricity and could blow a fuse at any moment. 

I think the former executives did a good job not losing it talking about the abuse they took. Remembering what all they put up with and accepted as normal must be difficult. Hearing Mike speak so matter of factly about the beatings and his time in the hole is heartbreaking. The idea that these people, who dedicated their lives, and their whole selves to this money grubbing sham of a religion, were thrown in an overcrowded, un-air conditioned trailer and fed poorly while being made to do nasty chores, rat on each other, and confess constantly is disgusting. The idea that some of them put up with because they thought they deserved it and were enduring it to help save the world is so sad. 

[libgirl2]

38 minutes ago, ramble said:

These stories are often so bizarre that they seem made up, but I believe them. The exact wording of the ex-wives saying “every inch of his body” stuck me too. It sounds so rehearsed. I imagine Davey had to beat up someone once that interview was aired and that fact was noted.

The thought of such a little man with such a fragile yet giant ego needing to take a grown man’s work and make fun of him in front of his peers and then beat him is mind boggling. Davey boy must be unhappy and angry most of the time. He’s always looked a bit manic to me as well. He and his tiny buddy Tom seem like they are always running on too much electricity and could blow a fuse at any moment. 

I think the former executives did a good job not losing it talking about the abuse they took. Remembering what all they put up with and accepted as normal must be difficult. Hearing Mike speak so matter of factly about the beatings and his time in the hole is heartbreaking. The idea that these people, who dedicated their lives, and their whole selves to this money grubbing sham of a religion, were thrown in an overcrowded, un-air conditioned trailer and fed poorly while being made to do nasty chores, rat on each other, and confess constantly is disgusting. The idea that some of them put up with because they thought they deserved it and were enduring it to help save the world is so sad. 

I feel bad for Mike and the others.... they have their dignity stripped away. I know they chose this cult, but I feel that they went in with the best intentions and really felt that they were doing good. 

[b2H]

3 hours ago, ramble said:

The exact wording of the ex-wives saying “every inch of his body” stuck me too. It sounds so rehearsed. 

That struck me as a very trained talking point when, after the first two used the phrase, a third one also did.

Brainwashing at its finest.

[Arynm]

The line about David Miscavige coming over the table"like in the Elf Movie" had me laughing so hard I had to pause the show. Picturing his little body running along the table was a picture I really needed!

[ramble]

1 hour ago, Arynm said:

The line about David Miscavige coming over the table"like in the Elf Movie" had me laughing so hard I had to pause the show. Picturing his little body running along the table was a picture I really needed!

That was great! If I were computer savvy at all I’d mash that together into a gif that we’d all enjoy. 

[Ohiopirate02]

One little line from this episode stood out to me--when someone mentioned that everyone in Gold had to surrender their passports.  This might be the issue that can finally take the cult down.  The FBI and local law enforcement can't do much about American citizens in the Sea Org especially when they tell law enforcement that the abuse has never happened, but for citizens of other countries it is another story.  While I am not a lawyer, I cannot imagine this is legal.  All it would take would be one foreign citizen to blow from Gold and contact the FBI.  If any of the former executives still in the hole after a decade or more is a citizen of another country, then they have either left the base to keep up on their paperwork or they are in the country illegally.  

[CrystalBlue]

On 1/16/2019 at 11:28 AM, libgirl2 said:

I thought the same exact thing. It seemed an odd thing to say too. I would never say something like that.... maybe, "we were married for x amount of years and he would know he could trust me with anything and he never said a word"

I thought the exact thing too!  Well rehearsed and brainwashed!

[CrystalBlue]

16 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

One little line from this episode stood out to me--when someone mentioned that everyone in Gold had to surrender their passports.  This might be the issue that can finally take the cult down.  The FBI and local law enforcement can't do much about American citizens in the Sea Org especially when they tell law enforcement that the abuse has never happened, but for citizens of other countries it is another story.  While I am not a lawyer, I cannot imagine this is legal.  All it would take would be one foreign citizen to blow from Gold and contact the FBI.  If any of the former executives still in the hole after a decade or more is a citizen of another country, then they have either left the base to keep up on their paperwork or they are in the country illegally.  

But, they were not forced to surrender their passports.  They gave them voluntarily to the Passport Monitor to be put into the Super Special Safe for safekeeping.  There's probably their signature on one of the contracts they voluntarily signed that says so.  ;)

[TexasGal]

On 1/16/2019 at 7:54 AM, 3girlsforus said:

4) I continue to laugh that everything someone on the show says something they throw up the response from Scientology claiming it’s a lie. To me that’s the biggest evidence that it isn’t a lie. Scientology is a very litigious group. They have a LOT of lawyers. If these people were really going on TV and making up stories, Scientology would sue their butts off for slander (or is it libel - I always get those mixed up). But they can’t because it’s not slander/libel if its true.

 

My memory trick from law school - Slander is Spoken.  I do find it amazing that the "church" hasn't come after the show.  A&E's lawyers were really digging to find some of the responses this week, there was one that was from the 80's or 90's.

[green]

On 1/16/2019 at 4:37 PM, libgirl2 said:

I feel bad for Mike and the others.... they have their dignity stripped away. I know they chose this cult, but I feel that they went in with the best intentions and really felt that they were doing good. 

Well Mike didn't "choose" the cult.  He was brought in as a kid when his parents joined and was brainwashed early.  It is worse for the second generation on because they never knew there was any other way to live.

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, green said:

Well Mike didn't "choose" the cult.  He was brought in as a kid when his parents joined and was brainwashed early.  It is worse for the second generation on because they never knew there was any other way to live.

You are right. Some chose, some had no choice. 

[Ohiopirate02]

4 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

But, they were not forced to surrender their passports.  They gave them voluntarily to the Passport Monitor to be put into the Super Special Safe for safekeeping.  There's probably their signature on one of the contracts they voluntarily signed that says so.  ;)

Depending on how long they have been in the country, they would need to make appearances at their home country's embassy to renew their paperwork.  They have to do this pretty regularly.  I used to work with a pharmacist who was Korean and she had to renew her paperwork at the Korean Embassy every 2 years.  She had to travel to either Washington DC or Chicago to do this in person.  This would be the one time they could make a break for it since their handlers probably would not be able to monitor them the whole time.  If they have been kept in the hole for years on end without tending to this paperwork, then they would have overstayed their visas and would be eligible for deportation.  Really Leah needs to get ICE involved instead of the FBI.  

[DC Gal in VA]

1 hour ago, TexasGal said:

My memory trick from law school - Slander is Spoken.  I do find it amazing that the "church" hasn't come after the show.  A&E's lawyers were really digging to find some of the responses this week, there was one that was from the 80's or 90's.

Thank you so much for this TexasGal; now I will remember the difference forever.

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Depending on how long they have been in the country, they would need to make appearances at their home country's embassy to renew their paperwork.  They have to do this pretty regularly.  I used to work with a pharmacist who was Korean and she had to renew her paperwork at the Korean Embassy every 2 years.  She had to travel to either Washington DC or Chicago to do this in person.  This would be the one time they could make a break for it since their handlers probably would not be able to monitor them the whole time.  If they have been kept in the hole for years on end without tending to this paperwork, then they would have overstayed their visas and would be eligible for deportation.  Really Leah needs to get ICE involved instead of the FBI.  

I doubt very seriously that with all ICE has to deal with these days, ICE would be pounding on doors.  A few at the most Scientologists are the least of their worries.  Also, how do we know there are foreigners among those held in The Hole or anywhere else?

1 minute ago, CrystalBlue said:

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by CrystalBlue

[LilWharveyGal]

6 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

Also, how do we know there are foreigners among those held in The Hole or anywhere else?

Not sure about The Hole or the other California sites, but based on what I've read over at the Underground Bunker it sounds like the cult has to ship people in from Russia to staff their Clearwater, Florida facilities.  If anyone here is following the story of the fatal stabbing at the Sydney org, it's similar to how there are many Taiwanese being sent to Australia.

[CrystalBlue]

8 minutes ago, LilWharveyGal said:

Not sure about The Hole or the other California sites, but based on what I've read over at the Underground Bunker it sounds like the cult has to ship people in from Russia to staff their Clearwater, Florida facilities.  If anyone here is following the story of the fatal stabbing at the Sydney org, it's similar to how there are many Taiwanese being sent to Australia.

If $cientology has foreign nationals hidden away or staffing facilities, they are not likely to be on the radar as to where they might be located.

[Lovecat]

On 1/16/2019 at 8:56 PM, Arynm said:

The line about David Miscavige coming over the table"like in the Elf Movie" had me laughing so hard I had to pause the show. Picturing his little body running along the table was a picture I really needed!

My brain actually conjured up that image before they even said it on the show!  “Oh, he’s an *angry* elf!”

[Rlb8031]

On 1/16/2019 at 12:13 PM, kicotan said:

3). folks like Claire Headley who claim she witnessed a thousand incidents of abuse and was “upper management” at the time are going to be questioned/possibly prosecuted if the organization is found guilty of said abuse because how could a person witness/not report/be complicit 1,000 times?  Goes to co-conspiracy.

 

I's not sure this is true. I think you could only be guilty of conspiracy if you took some action to further the conspiracy (such as coming out on camera to say you never witnessed such a thing). But simply being in upper management, doesn't get you to conspiracy unless you are claiming racketeering (or essentially, the entire enterprise is criminal, a la the mob) such that your mere involvement in the organization was in furtherance of criminal activity.  Is there an active criminal attorney here to confirm? It been years since I had to know any of this.

[Neurochick]

I don't think the FBI or law enforcement will ever do anything (I mean look at the shit The People's Temple got away with)

What I see happening is something like this:

Someone tries to escape and winds up in a public place.

Scientology security tries to get the person back, they scream, bystanders help them, security fights them and some non-Scientologist is seriously injured.  That's when an investigation will happen.

I go back to The People's Temple.  After the mass murder, in 1978, I remember listening to some radio show, a man called in with a question:  How were so many poor people, people who could barely afford rent, able to pay for passports and airfare to Guyana?  Good question.

[kicotan]

3 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I's not sure this is true. I think you could only be guilty of conspiracy if you took some action to further the conspiracy (such as coming out on camera to say you never witnessed such a thing). But simply being in upper management, doesn't get you to conspiracy unless you are claiming racketeering (or essentially, the entire enterprise is criminal, a la the mob) such that your mere involvement in the organization was in furtherance of criminal activity.  Is there an active criminal attorney here to confirm? It been years since I had to know any of this.

I’m not sure she could be prosecuted for standing by and doing nothing 1000 times...but her credibility might suffer as a witness for the prosecution if, by her own words, she witnessed it, did nothing about it and reaped the benefits of her management position at the same time.

 I’m in NO WAY defending CO$ tactics, just imagining her deposition/testimony on the witness stand and the cross examining she would endure by CO$ lawyers.

Edited January 18, 2019 by kicotan
Grammar issues

[green]

4 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

Not sure about The Hole or the other California sites, but based on what I've read over at the Underground Bunker it sounds like the cult has to ship people in from Russia to staff their Clearwater, Florida facilities.  If anyone here is following the story of the fatal stabbing at the Sydney org, it's similar to how there are many Taiwanese being sent to Australia.

Damn, Russians are "clearing" the planet now?  They have infiltrated CO$, hah.  Is Putin the real secret head of CO$ and Miss Cabbage his mere puppet?   Was L Ron Hubbard a deep sleeper all along?   Have the Russians hacked "the bridge?"  Alert Bob Mueller asap!  And can we please make a show about all this?  Hahahaha. 

Edited January 18, 2019 by green

[MisterBluxom]

The most terrifying thing about this episode to me is the following:

They explained that as Sea Org members age, they inevitably become too sick or too weak to work for the cult. At that point they are of no value to the money-grubbing cult but TS (The Scam) can't afford to let them leave for fear they will tell the truth.

They spend most of their lives in TS so they have no money, no insurance, no pensions, no education, no nothing. Do you see where this is going? There is a huge disaster waiting to happen.

They have never gotten any medical care and will certainly never get any in the future. Talk about elder abuse? These people will end their lives living in filth and suffering from neglect. No one will care for them. They will die in the worst possible conditions.

Have you ever seen that famous B&W documentary titled, "Memory of the Camps"? A British camera crew entered some Nazi death camps at the end of the war and showed tens of thousands of corpses that had been starved to death and died of disease and neglect. If you've never seen this film, I urge you to see it. It can be found in many places on the Net. There is a similar disaster coming to this place and if it ever becomes known - and I can't imagine how it couldn't be discovered - I would hope that would be enough for the authorities to act.

The other reason why the authorities may never have really acted is one I've not seen anyone discuss. It is bribery and corruption. What are the odds they pay off people in The FBI?

I can't imagine any FBI member taking bribes. But stranger things have happened.

 

There are also two other important factors that make it difficult for authorities to enter the compound with search warrants.

First, they pretend to be a Church. That is patently ridiculous, of course.  But they have managed to be recognized as a Church and that gives them all kinds of protections under the Amendment that deals with religous freedom. Churches are allowed to beat their members as part of their services providing the members consent.

Second, they brainwash their victims and they then live in fear that if they ever speak out, they will never be able to see their families again. This is an unbelievably powerful inducement for them to lie and tell the police, "I am here of my own free will. Everything is fine. No one gets hit here. Everyone is happy here. Everyone wants to be here. This place is like paradise on earth.

Of course it's all the biggest load of bullshit since people have stood up in court and denied the Nazi Holocaust against the Jews.

Edited January 18, 2019 by MisterBluxom

[green]

5 hours ago, MisterBluxom said:

I can't imagine any FBI member taking bribes. But stranger things have happened.

Well Whitey Bulger had one in his back pocket for years.  He was the head of the FBI office in Boston.

From Wikipedia:

Quote

John Joseph Connolly Jr. (born August 1, 1940) is a former FBI agent who was convicted of racketeering, obstruction of justice, and murder charges stemming from his relationship with James "Whitey" Bulger, Steve Flemmi, and the Winter Hill Gang.

And don't get me started on J Edgar Hoover who had secret blackmail files gathered on everyone who was anyone back in the day from the Kennedys to Martin Luther King and was totally cra-cra-crazy besides.

Edited January 19, 2019 by green

[MisterBluxom]

On 2019-01-18 at 4:55 PM, green said:

Damn, Russians are "clearing" the planet now?  They have infiltrated CO$, hah.  Is Putin the real secret head of CO$ and Miss Cabbage his mere puppet?   Was L Ron Hubbard a deep sleeper all along?   Have the Russians hacked "the bridge?"  Alert Bob Mueller asap!  And can we please make a show about all this?  Hahahaha. 

It seems the only things that ever get clear are all your savings, all your bank accounts, all your retirement savings plans, all your childrens' college funds, etc. etc. etc.

[MisterBluxom]

I know there is not a whole lot of participation in this particular thread. But that may be a good opportunity for me to show you something I'm working on and ask for your opinions.

I hope to get the following "open letter" published on one of the more active Anti-Scientology blogs. It is quite long. But you should know very quickly after beginning to read it whether you want to read more or not. In any case, I will  put it into a spoiler box so that no one here will have to look at this long "suggestion" if they don't want to.

I'd like to ask you about any changes you would make before I submit it for publishing. I know the odds of it getting published are very small. Nonetheless, I'm concerned about several other things - including any potential "blow-back" from this organization. I  hope that will be very unlikely, but I would dread having these people show up at my door and try to film me or go through my garbage to find out things about me they can then publish to try and expose me as some kind of pervert or freak - especially if they will lie about that.

Any suggestions you might make for ways I can change this document to either make it better or reduce the odds of any "blow-back" would certainly be appreciated. Here it is and I thank you for taking the time to read it:

 

In this document, I use the following abbreviations: ("The Scam" or "TS")-Scientology,  SO-Sea Org,  GB-Gold Base,  DM-"The Tiny Fuhrer", "The Tiny Monster", "The Tiny Asshole", etc. doc-document,  mgmt-management,  awa-as well as

This document is about a looming catastrophe that, IMO, will almost inevitably befall many senior citizens who are SO members and who are currently being held captive at GB. By "captive", I mean a combination of both physical and mental restraints. The physical restraints include razor wire and teams of people tasked with finding anyone who leaves the compound in order to return them. The mental restraints are the result of brainwashing and when it comes to brainwashing, TS seems to be enormously expert - possibly the greatest experts in this world.

Almost all these seniors are victims who are being held at GB regardless of whether they consent to that or not. They once clung to the hope of finding joy in the result of participating in the promise made by TS to transform this world into a Paradise here on Earth. But most of them have long since abandoned all hope of ever seeing that promised Paradise. Sadly, it is now evident that instead of any Paradise, they are now all living in a Hell on Earth. People who are familiar with TS will know they promised to create this Paradise by "clearing" a diseased portion of the human mind (which they call the "reactive mind"). But the only things they ever truly cleared were all of the savings of their members awa all their bank accounts, insurance policies, mortgages, inheritences and any other kinds of financial instruments that could be converted into cash and extorted under the guise of donations to their phony charity. TS is not a charity. That idea is patently ridiculous. Charities do not extort donations from their members by torturing them in many ways including the fear of the destruction of their families.

It now appears to me to be inevitable these people are facing a very bleak future as they continue to age. As things stand, they are likely destined to die horrible deaths due to starvation, disease or complications resulting from the complete absence of any care. This environment is deteriorating into something similar to the very worst corrupt Nursing Homes that seniors have ever experienced. I will briefly outline the reasons for this. But first, I'd like you to consider the worst conditions that people have ever experienced as they approached end of life. That would be the Nazi Death Camps of WW2. The conditions in those camps were the most squalid and filthy imaginable and as you read this, I'd like you to contemplate just how it came to pass that senior SO members would ever have to face such conditions.

Have you ever seen the documentary film "Memory of the Camps"? If not, I would urge you to see it. It is widely and freely available on The Net. It was produced in 1945 by a British camera crew and directed by Alfred Hitchcock. Near the end of WW2 in Europe, when the Nazi death camps were overrun by The Allies, a British camera crew entered the camps and filmed the ghastly conditions they found. Up until that time, no one had ever seen people living and dying in such abhorrent conditions. The announcer told us there were not hundreds - but thousands of corpses lying all around in twisted heaps. This film shows those corpses. Thousands of people had died of starvation, disease and/or neglect. It seemed evident they had never received any care at all. They were left to die surrounded by what the announcer called "unmentionable filth". In addition, he said the accompanying stench was the worst imaginable and it wafted all through the countryside for miles in every direction. - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3455796

As Mike and Leah have explained, the following conditions currently exist at GB:
. Many, if not most SO members joined at a very young age. Many were born into TS. They have spent most all of their lives working for SO with the following results:
. As they approach the end of their lives, they have no money and almost no education. They certainly do not have any of the skills required for employment in any modern working environment or any of the knowledge so many of us take for granted - like how get a library card or a telephone.
. They have never earned any significant money and as a result, they now have no pensions, no health insurance, no access to medical care, no long term care, no funds to pay for the hospice care they desperately need. Worst of all - they have no hope!  In many cases, they also have no family to help them because one of the cruelest tactics employed by TS is "disconnection" which means people are required to shun all of their family members who are disapproved by TS. They must never talk with them or see them again. Absolutely never!
. Once these people become too old or too sick to be employed, TS Mgmt considers them to be of little or no value. Since the only people who TS does indeed value are those who continue to bring money into their coffers on a regular basis. As a result, it's highly doubtful TS would ever spend any resources to care for them in their twilight years - unless we force them to do so (and I would love to force them to do so).
. There is one concern TS does have. They would go to any lengths to prevent these people from leaving the compound for fear they may talk about the abuses inflicted upon them by TS Mgmt while they were being kept captive.

When you consider all of these dynamics in total, the net effect is that these people will eventually become unable to care for themselves. This is true for most anyone approaching end of life. They will eventually suffer from problems like dementia or senility or any number of related medical problems associated with end of life - such as incontinence or surgery on their digestive systems or bowels which then often necessitates the use of colostomy devices. The consequence of these problems often prevents them from ever interacting with others except in very limited ways. Given they have no health care, pensions, medical treatment or other forms of long term care, these people will then often fall victim to desperate feelings of depression and they will die after suffering any number of other fatal problems which stem from a total lack of care. Eventually, if they do not receive round the clock nursing, they can easily die in squalid conditions that have been described as "unmentionable filth". I'm sorry for painting such an ugly and horrifying picture. But I honestly fear this is what these seniors face as they approach end of life. One of the worst aspects of having none of the things so many of us take for granted is that they also lose all hope.  After giving their lives to TS (now a billion dollar corporation) under false pretenses, don't you think they deserve better than that?  Doesn't any human deserve better than that?

At this time, there appears to be almost nothing that can be done to save these people from terrible/gruesome deaths in filthy conditions. They will almost certainly die from terrible conditions including starvation, disease and/or complications from a total lack of care. You may well ask how I can be so arrogant to predict such a thing. But the answer is actually simple. There is a very famous expression that goes like this: "All that is required for evil to triumph in this world is for good people to stand by and do nothing".  I would quote a similar expression that goes like this: "All that is required for these people to perish in horrific conditions is for good people to stand by and do nothing. If no one actively intervenes to put an end to these conditions, and the current trends continue, it seems to me inevitable most of these people will perish in the manner I have described. How can this possibly be prevented? I would suggest it is almost inevitable we will witness a terrible tragedy involving these elderly SO members and when these events occur, it will be almost impossible to prevent them from making a huge and noisy public explosion in the front pages of this nation's news media organizations.

Please consider this suggestion: I suggest The Aftermath Foundation hire a lawyer to put TS on notice that when this disaster occurs, Mr. Tiny Fuhrer will likely face many counts of Murder by Depraved Indifference or something similar that will put him into penitentiary for the rest of his life. If he is notified of this pending catastrophe in a very loud and public way, it would seem almost impossible for him to avoid life in prison. But even if that doesn't happen, I suggest we carry on to the next strategy and then the next until he eventually finds himself in the one place he truly belongs and will be welcomed.

I'm quite certain I do not need to tell you that a great many of the elderly people detained at GB have devoted most of their lives to this scam and they did that out of the goodness of their hearts. It may have been foolish, but TS bears a large part of the blame for deceiving them into believing their support would result in a wonderful transformation of this word. Was that foolish? Yes. I believe it was. But TS employed professional tricks used by slick "con men" to deceive these people and for that reason, I believe it's abundantly clear. These con artists belong in prison. I fear that a disaster that can  only be described as "catastrophic" will almost certainly occur at GB and will destroy the lives of so many good-hearted people who gave their lives to these con artists. They may have acted foolishly but TS deserves the lion's share of the blame. We are all so very fortunate to have Leah the Lion-Hearted in our corner to help us in the fight for justice. We will need to keep on fighting and we must never ever give up.

Mike and Leah have made it very clear that Scientology is not a real religion. They have clearly shown us TS is far more likely to be described as a business or corporation or "collection agency" or one of the Biggest Scams ever perpetrated on this planet. Many people call them something even more brief. I find myself usually calling them "The Scam" because when people hear them referred to in that way, they think of the biggest and most famous scam ever existing in this. For most of us, that means Scientology and its fake status as a religion and its phony tax exempt status.

TS hides behind the insane fiction of a religion or a place that helps people to help themselves and others. But the only "help" going on is when TS helps themselves to all of the money people have saved awa all they can borrow before being forced into bankruptcy.

By spending their formative years at the SO, these people have wound up with no education, no health care, no money, no pension and no hope. It is very likely this situation will develop into one of the worst elder abuse tragedies this world has ever seen. It is truly a tragic catastrophe in the making.

Finally, I want to make it clear that Mike Rinder and Leah Remini have my permission to edit this document in any way they see fit and to include it in a notice sent to the Tiny Asshole that unless he expends some of his ill-gotten resources to help these people that have given up their entire lives working for this scam, he will be responsible for one of the most catastrophic disasters inflicted on elders this world has ever seen.

P.S. My original goal when writing this document was to suggest that these people could very well co-operate such that those who are able could provide some basic care for those who are unable. Eventually they could perhaps even provide care for other seniors who cannot afford to pay for hospice care for themselves. It may be possible the Federal Government will pay something towards the cost of care for these people and in this way, these people could be transformed such that instead of being involved in some kind of huge tragedy, perhaps they could become a positve profit center where those people who are able could provide care for people who are not able. In this way it may be possible for these people to transform their lives into some kind of positive experience that will get them out of The Scam and provide them with a way of caring for people who can no longer care for themselves.

Sincerely, Mister Bluxom

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by MisterBluxom

[funky-rat]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 2:13 PM, Neurochick said:

I don't think the FBI or law enforcement will ever do anything (I mean look at the shit The People's Temple got away with)

I go back to The People's Temple.  After the mass murder, in 1978, I remember listening to some radio show, a man called in with a question:  How were so many poor people, people who could barely afford rent, able to pay for passports and airfare to Guyana?  Good question.

Similar case.  People's Temple had all of their parishioners sell off all of their worldly goods and give the money to Jim Jones, who then brought people down to Jonestown in waves.  And while he still had parishioners back in the US, he would send movies back showing just how "awesome" Jonestown was (complete with smiling happy members saying things like "Hurry here!  We miss you!  This is amazing!", ensuring no one would want to stay behind, or change their mind.  He also split families up, ensuring others would come to be with them.  Once they arrived, those who survived tell horror stories about just how bad it was.  Long hours of work.  Sleep deprivation.  Constant suicide drills.  Mind games.  One meal a day, and those who survived talk about how it was usually rice in milk, and that when you'd put the milk in, all of the bugs would float to the top.  Jones too recorded everything obsessively.  The final meeting at Jonestown is horrible to listen to.  There were clearly people who didn't want to die and spoke out about how unfair it was to the children, but Jones was undeterred.  I hope it doesn't take a massive tragedy like Jonestown to bring this crap to light, but I fear it just might.

[MisterBluxom]

6 hours ago, funky-rat said:

Similar case.  People's Temple had all of their parishioners sell off all of their worldly goods and give the money to Jim Jones, who then brought people down to Jonestown in waves.  And while he still had parishioners back in the US, he would send movies back showing just how "awesome" Jonestown was (complete with smiling happy members saying things like "Hurry here!  We miss you!  This is amazing!", ensuring no one would want to stay behind, or change their mind.  He also split families up, ensuring others would come to be with them.  Once they arrived, those who survived tell horror stories about just how bad it was.  Long hours of work.  Sleep deprivation.  Constant suicide drills.  Mind games.  One meal a day, and those who survived talk about how it was usually rice in milk, and that when you'd put the milk in, all of the bugs would float to the top.  Jones too recorded everything obsessively.  The final meeting at Jonestown is horrible to listen to.  There were clearly people who didn't want to die and spoke out about how unfair it was to the children, but Jones was undeterred.  I hope it doesn't take a massive tragedy like Jonestown to bring this crap to light, but I fear it just might.

The fact that this guy is running this scam in the USA would normally give hope that the USA law enforcement agencies would have a lot more on the ball than those in 3rd world countries who only seem to do things when bribed. But it has been so discouraging because it just seems almost impossible to get the USA agencies to stand up and do something. They just keep listing all these excuses why their hands are tied. It's unbelievable.

[kicotan]

1 hour ago, MisterBluxom said:

They just keep listing all these excuses why their hands are tied.

I’ve lived in Las Vegas for a few years and the freedoms enjoyed as a resident of the State of Nevada are unique, compared to other states.

One doesn’t have to register handguns/open carry is permitted unless banned by a specific business/government institution, one can smoke tobacco in certain restaurants plus most casinos, possess, grow and consume cannabis in one’s own home, walk down the street drinking alcohol, gamble, order a free limo ride to the brothel~24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  All legal benefits for members(residents).

I liken it to when the IRS sees fit to grant your organization “religion” status, as opposed to just being a random individual living in a dry county in Arkansas.  All of a sudden you have all sorts of legal freedoms/protections that random individuals don’t get to enjoy like not having to pay taxes, getting away with discriminatory or abusive practices and calling it dogma, fleecing the everlovin’ shit out of parishioners, etc.  For example, if the only hospital in your town is owned by the Catholic Church, guess what?  You will have to travel out of town to a secular hospital to get your tubes tied/gender conformation surgery/vasectomy/elective hysterectomy cause they don’t believe in that so screw you because Recognized by the IRS Religious Freedom.  Why aren’t they prosecuted/persecuted like the Colorado Cake-Baker?

I would LOVE to see the undoing of the CO$‘s government approved status as a religion, however, I’d also like to see a separation of church and state whereby NO religion gets special privileges that ordinary citizens don’t get.

Edited January 22, 2019 by kicotan
Spellcheck

[funky-rat]

14 hours ago, MisterBluxom said:

The fact that this guy is running this scam in the USA would normally give hope that the USA law enforcement agencies would have a lot more on the ball than those in 3rd world countries who only seem to do things when bribed. But it has been so discouraging because it just seems almost impossible to get the USA agencies to stand up and do something. They just keep listing all these excuses why their hands are tied. It's unbelievable.

Jones had plenty of bad stuff that took place in the US.  He took off to Jonestown (Guyana) because the heat was on here in the US.  For many years, he was abusing/beating parishioners (publicly, in front of others - some of it was recorded), taking people's money, and many other Miscaviage-esque things.  And like Scamatology, when the authorities came calling, Temple members would be trotted out to say how much they loved Jim, how well he treated him, etc, and they'd back off.  And we all know how well it went when the congressman went to Jonestown to see how things were...….

[Diane Mars]

14 hours ago, kicotan said:

... I’d also like to see a separation of church and state whereby NO religion gets special privileges that ordinary citizens don’t get.

So T.H.I.S. <3 <3 <3

[libgirl2]

On 1/18/2019 at 5:48 PM, MisterBluxom said:

The most terrifying thing about this episode to me is the following:

They explained that as Sea Org members age, they inevitably become too sick or too weak to work for the cult. At that point they are of no value to the money-grubbing cult but TS (The Scam) can't afford to let them leave for fear they will tell the truth.

They spend most of their lives in TS so they have no money, no insurance, no pensions, no education, no nothing. Do you see where this is going? There is a huge disaster waiting to happen.

They have never gotten any medical care and will certainly never get any in the future. Talk about elder abuse? These people will end their lives living in filth and suffering from neglect. No one will care for them. They will die in the worst possible conditions.

Have you ever seen that famous B&W documentary titled, "Memory of the Camps"? A British camera crew entered some Nazi death camps at the end of the war and showed tens of thousands of corpses that had been starved to death and died of disease and neglect. If you've never seen this film, I urge you to see it. It can be found in many places on the Net. There is a similar disaster coming to this place and if it ever becomes known - and I can't imagine how it couldn't be discovered - I would hope that would be enough for the authorities to act.

The other reason why the authorities may never have really acted is one I've not seen anyone discuss. It is bribery and corruption. What are the odds they pay off people in The FBI?

I can't imagine any FBI member taking bribes. But stranger things have happened.

 

 

I could see the cult dumping everyone in some mass grave on a compound.