S03.E08: Gilman Springs Road

[MisterBluxom]

21 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I could see the cult dumping everyone in some mass grave on a compound. 

Yes. I could see that too.

But given their history, I would guess that someone would inevitably ask, `Why dig a grave? Wouldn`t that take us a long time?  Why not just leave them for the forest animals? After all, they need to eat don`t they?

[3girlsforus]

On 1/18/2019 at 10:02 AM, TexasGal said:

My memory trick from law school - Slander is Spoken.  I do find it amazing that the "church" hasn't come after the show.  A&E's lawyers were really digging to find some of the responses this week, there was one that was from the 80's or 90's.

Excellent. Thanks for the memory trick. I can imagine the A&E lawyers scrutinize everything to make sure they are protected. Being a lawyer you probably know better than I, but to prove slander wouldn’t CO$ have to show what Leah and associates are saying isn’t true? CO$ has their stock response “X person is lying because they were kicked out of the church’ but Leah has a long line of people confirming what is being said. Seems like it would be a tough case for CO$ and could risk exposing solid evidence of things they don’t want out. 

[Giselle]

On 1/22/2019 at 9:39 AM, libgirl2 said:

I could see the cult dumping everyone in some mass grave on a compound. 

16 hours ago, MisterBluxom said:

Yes. I could see that too.

But given their history, I would guess that someone would inevitably ask, `Why dig a grave? Wouldn`t that take us a long time?  Why not just leave them for the forest animals? After all, they need to eat don`t they?

 

They would probably buy a creamatorium.

No body no evidence.

[summitsw]

When I first saw who was going to be on this I thought it was just going to be another recap episode, but the info about Gold Base and the frustration these guys feel at having to tell their stories over and over with no one doing anything was heartbreaking.

To sit with the FBI and think they were finally going to do something, for the FBI to have done an investigation in 2009 and yet nothing has changed in 2019, I don’t even know how these guys keep going. When Clare said they do it in the hope that they can save their friends and family even if they then hate them, and then watching them all break down, I gotta say, I was teary too.

The sacrifices made by these people are huge, and I hope the justice finally served on Miscavage and his goons is many times greater. 

[MisterBluxom]

19 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

Excellent. Thanks for the memory trick. I can imagine the A&E lawyers scrutinize everything to make sure they are protected. Being a lawyer you probably know better than I, but to prove slander wouldn’t CO$ have to show what Leah and associates are saying isn’t true? CO$ has their stock response “X person is lying because they were kicked out of the church’ but Leah has a long line of people confirming what is being said. Seems like it would be a tough case for CO$ and could risk exposing solid evidence of things they don’t want out. 

Is it possible The Scam (my name for this cult - aka TS) knows that any publicity just shines more light on their activities and results in more publicity and more harm and brings them closer to their destruction?

Would that explain why they seem to have stopped taking legal action? Could it be they just don't want their name in the news? Under any and all circumstances?

By the way, is it possible that one cannot be prosecuted for "slander" if all one does is ask questioins?

Did that bring a smile to your face?  Don't you think that might have been my intention?

Edited January 24, 2019 by MisterBluxom

[summitsw]

Quote

Excellent. Thanks for the memory trick. I can imagine the A&E lawyers scrutinize everything to make sure they are protected. Being a lawyer you probably know better than I, but to prove slander wouldn’t CO$ have to show what Leah and associates are saying isn’t true? CO$ has their stock response “X person is lying because they were kicked out of the church’ but Leah has a long line of people confirming what is being said. Seems like it would be a tough case for CO$ and could risk exposing solid evidence of things they don’t want out. 

This above all else is what makes me believe pretty much everything that anyone who’s been on the show has said. If it was untrue, the CoS would surely take great delight in dragging these people into court, but they take no action other than sending ridiculous letters, setting up stupid websites, and dragging out the same tired lines about all detractors. One can only assume it’s because they know if they sue, then they will also be deposed in order to prove that their detractors are lying, and they do not want that. 

I do have to say though, when Leah said ‘we have someone new who escaped’ I had this feeling of hope and then that blond chick came on and I groaned. I didn’t believe her in her episode, and after the genuine misery of the other contributors, she seemed too sort of gleeful about her knowledge. She’s seems so fake, I don’t believe her at all and I wish their ‘new person’ was more credible. 

[Mardo2044]

2 hours ago, summitsw said:

I do have to say though, when Leah said ‘we have someone new who escaped’ I had this feeling of hope and then that blond chick came on and I groaned. I didn’t believe her in her episode, and after the genuine misery of the other contributors, she seemed too sort of gleeful about her knowledge. She’s seems so fake, I don’t believe her at all and I wish their ‘new person’ was more credible. 

I felt the same way, we heard what she had to say.  I probably hashed that enough on the thread when her episode appeared, but I did not find her as credible as other ex-Co$.

[DC Gal in VA]

On 1/22/2019 at 12:39 PM, libgirl2 said:

I could see the cult dumping everyone in some mass grave on a compound. 

Oh wow libgirl2 I just posted a similar thought on the "Buying a Town" topic for this series. I absolutely believe it is possible that people have been murdered in this cult or at least allowed to die from neglect or severe injuries untreated/unreported from a beating, and disposed of, especially when the victims are elderly, infirmed and/or destitute, you know, the "invisible" people that just don't matter to the powers that be.

Edited January 24, 2019 by DC Gal in VA
Additional comments.

[italianguy626]

7 hours ago, summitsw said:

One can only assume it’s because they know if they sue, then they will also be deposed in order to prove that their detractors are lying, and they do not want that. 

The discovery phase of the trial would be glorious. The cult has always tried to avoid trials getting to the discovery phase because its then that the excrement hits the oscillating device.

[DC Gal in VA]

As far as going after The "Church" of Scamatology, I hate to even hope for this but I cannot believe that in such a heavily male-dominated cult, and like any other cults--David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, the FLDS, Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple among many others--there must have been some instances of sexual harassment/assault and maybe even sexual abuse of children. I have yet to see any of these cults where this has not happened. When men have absolute control over females, especially young girls, bad things tend to happen. I don't know if anyone remembers but in a previous show it was mentioned how L. Ron Hubbard wanted to take the place of the natural fathers of young women and girls so he could be seen as their "Daddy." I recall an overwhelming sense of nausea upon hearing that.

Like I said, I really don't want this to be true but in today's climate with the #me too movement, it may be a lot more difficult for law enforcement, especially the Feds, to keep their collective heads up their asses and blow off any females that escape and come forward with claims of sexual abuse/assault.

Just a thought.

[LilWharveyGal]

20 minutes ago, DC Gal in VA said:

there must have been some instances of sexual harassment/assault and maybe even sexual abuse of children...Like I said, I really don't want this to be true but in today's climate with the #me too movement, it may be a lot more difficult for law enforcement, especially the Feds, to keep their collective heads up their asses and blow off any females that escape and come forward with claims of sexual abuse/assault.

If you remember last season's episode about Mirriam and Saina, their sexual abuse was discussed.  Though I believe it was perpetrated by parishioners and not higher-ups.  Is that what you were getting at?  

I couldn't remember what happened with their cases so I looked them up on the Underground Bunker.  The LAPD strikes again.

[funky-rat]

26 minutes ago, DC Gal in VA said:

As far as going after The "Church" of Scamatology, I hate to even hope for this but I cannot believe that in such a heavily male-dominated cult, and like any other cults--David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, the FLDS, Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple among many others--there must have been some instances of sexual harassment/assault and maybe even sexual abuse of children. I have yet to see any of these cults where this has not happened. When men have absolute control over females, especially young girls, bad things tend to happen. I don't know if anyone remembers but in a previous show it was mentioned how L. Ron Hubbard wanted to take the place of the natural fathers of young women and girls so he could be seen as their "Daddy." I recall an overwhelming sense of nausea upon hearing that.

Like I said, I really don't want this to be true but in today's climate with the #me too movement, it may be a lot more difficult for law enforcement, especially the Feds, to keep their collective heads up their asses and blow off any females that escape and come forward with claims of sexual abuse/assault.

Just a thought.

True - that's what finally brought down the FLDS.  It didn't come out immediately, but Jones did some bad stuff with both female and male underage members of the Peoples Temple, often times when he was on his bus, travelling the country.  And I would believe Koresh was in to some scummy stuff with underage people.  Sadly, if people who experienced something like that were still in Scamatology, the truth is unlikely to come out.  : (

Edited January 24, 2019 by funky-rat

[DC Gal in VA]

4 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

True - that's what finally brought down the FLDS.  It didn't come out immediately, but Jones did some bad stuff with both female and male underage members of the Peoples Temple, often times when he was on his bus, travelling the country.  And I would believe Koresh was in to some scummy stuff with underage people.  Sadly, if people who experienced something like that were still in Scamatology, the truth is unlikely to come out.  : (

So true funky-rat. What I'm hoping for us that several women who manage to escape who have been raped and/or in any way sexually exploited or abused report what happened to them shortly after they leave, hopefully regarding acts occurring within the statute of limitations for those offenses.

As a matter of fact, I would encourage them to skip law enforcement initially and head straight into waiting arms of attorney Gloria Allred. Hey, I've got issues with her but that woman is like a dog in a bone with these types of cases and sure as Hell never saw a camera she didn't like. The stink she would raise publicly would be epic!

[summitsw]

3 hours ago, italianguy626 said:

The discovery phase of the trial would be glorious. The cult has always tried to avoid trials getting to the discovery phase because its then that the excrement hits the oscillating device.

I live for this day. Surely somehow, at some point, Miscavage and/or one of his top goons will be deposed and the light will shine on the filth they are. 

[DC Gal in VA]

2 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

If you remember last season's episode about Mirriam and Saina, their sexual abuse was discussed.  Though I believe it was perpetrated by parishioners and not higher-ups.  Is that what you were getting at?  

I couldn't remember what happened with their cases so I looked them up on the Underground Bunker.  The LAPD strikes again.

Aww damn LilWharveyGal no I don't remember watching that show but I did read most of the link you posted. Shit, so L.A. Pay Day AND the prosecutors seemed like they were working harder at giving the appearance of working instead of doing any real investigating. Sadly, the various statutes of limitations seem to have expired. Once again, as I said previously, women who have recently escaped who were assaulted or abused need to come forward ASAP after leaving  and contact attorney Gloria Allred  who will happily rain Hell upon heads of Co$ and their minions, the LAPD.

[Giselle]

On 1/21/2019 at 1:39 AM, MisterBluxom said:

It seems the only things that ever get clear are all your savings, all your bank accounts, all your retirement savings plans, all your childrens' college funds, etc. etc. etc.

You nailed it!

The true meaning of "going clear"... your net worth disappearing down to zero once you join the cult.

[MisterBluxom]

On 2019-01-21 at 7:52 PM, kicotan said:

I’ve lived in Las Vegas for a few years and the freedoms enjoyed as a resident of the State of Nevada are unique, compared to other states.

One doesn’t have to register handguns/open carry is permitted unless banned by a specific business/government institution, one can smoke tobacco in certain restaurants plus most casinos, possess, grow and consume cannabis in one’s own home, walk down the street drinking alcohol, gamble, order a free limo ride to the brothel~24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  All legal benefits for members(residents).

I liken it to when the IRS sees fit to grant your organization “religion” status, as opposed to just being a random individual living in a dry county in Arkansas.  All of a sudden you have all sorts of legal freedoms/protections that random individuals don’t get to enjoy like not having to pay taxes, getting away with discriminatory or abusive practices and calling it dogma, fleecing the everlovin’ shit out of parishioners, etc.  For example, if the only hospital in your town is owned by the Catholic Church, guess what?  You will have to travel out of town to a secular hospital to get your tubes tied/gender conformation surgery/vasectomy/elective hysterectomy cause they don’t believe in that so screw you because Recognized by the IRS Religious Freedom.  Why aren’t they prosecuted/persecuted like the Colorado Cake-Baker?

I would LOVE to see the undoing of the CO$‘s government approved status as a religion, however, I’d also like to see a separation of church and state whereby NO religion gets special privileges that ordinary citizens don’t get.

Sounds like a real paradise right here on earth. I have visted LV a few times and never been disappointed. It was always fun, fun, fun. I would love to live there.

[zoomama]

i have not watched this episode yet but wanted to say that i live near that gilman springs facility. for many years, as i drove that little two lane road past it, i would get a scary feeling over me. i knew, in vague, what it was but did not have any inkling it was a modern-day  house of horrors. even now, i avoid driving over that way. that all being said, i also had a feeling that if i had ever seen anyone running on the street (i.e. escaping) near there, i would stop and see if they needed help because the feeling of evil is truly real there. i cannot explain it but it is truly not a nice place, contrary to how beautiful they have made it appear on the outside. oh and it has barbed wire fences around it and the cameras - they are no joke! it is creepy!

[psychoticstate]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 4:37 PM, libgirl2 said:

I feel bad for Mike and the others.... they have their dignity stripped away. I know they chose this cult, but I feel that they went in with the best intentions and really felt that they were doing good. 

I feel exactly the same.  None of these folks were or are bad people.  They believed they were doing good for themselves and everyone else and the CO$ abused them in every way possible.  

I believe all these folks.  They are telling the same stories, without it being a verbatim rehashing, and they  have no reason to lie.  You have to love Leah for saying they don't get paid although maybe they're given brownies and shit.  I'll bet she's a blast to hang out with.

I remember when that interview with the ex-wives initially aired and I believed at the time the ladies were brainwashed Stepford Wives.  Totally rehearsed.  Nothing spontaneous or original there. 

I truly hope we'll see the takedown and dismantling of the CO$ soon.  That cult absolutely destroys people.  They fuck with their minds, cut them off from family and friends, bankrupt them, make them co-dependent and then if someone dares to leave, stalks and harasses them to the point of insanity.  I hate the CO$ with the fire of a thousand suns and fantasize of the day when Davey will be in cuffs and behind bars.

[2727]

From what I've seen at the Underground Bunker and Rinder's blog, Scientology exes are all extremely supportive of each other, no matter what they were like in the cult. They tend to cling to each other, if anything.

That so many can readily forgive and even befriend Rinder and other OSA operatives is pretty clear evidence to me. They're the only ones who truly understand the warped psychology that was at work on all of them.

Edited February 9, 2019 by 2727