S04.E12: Providence

[Athena]

Quote

Brianna confronts a violent figure from her past in an attempt to cope with her trauma. Roger befriends a fellow captive and endeavors to escape the Mohawk Village, while Fergus and Marsali plan a dangerous mission.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I know that people have complained about Brianna since her first appearance, but I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, despite her flat line readings and inconsistent American accent. But this week she really started to annoy me with her lack of enunciation. In the first scene, I had to keep rewinding because I could not understand what in the hell she was mush mouth mumbling. Pro tip for actors: rushing your lines doesn't make your character seem more passionate/upset/whatever. And if you're going to insist on doing, at least have the skill to enunciate properly!

Jamie's letter to Brianna annoyed me. "Dear daughter, don't seek revenge. It will not make you feel better. But I'm going to kill this dude for you!"

Oh, Brianna, you don't need to see Bonnet in order to get closure and move on. Honestly, the last thing you should do with someone like that is give him the opportunity to wound you further. Why would she go to the jail, tell him her name, and tell him that she's pregnant? That's just giving him ammunition. Come on, girl, don't you know that's just asking for fate to somehow set him free so he can come after you and try to take your baby?

One thing that I definitely like about the Mohawk is that speaking when another is speaking is an offense. Even back then, some people knew that interrupting was rude as fuck!

Way too much Roger in this episode for my taste.

[nara]

Brianna to Lord John: “You are impossible not to like.” Perhaps the most true statement ever spoken in the series.  I think he’s the most likable person so far in the series, with the possible exception of dear old Mrs. Fitz. Lord John has been a constant support for the Fraser’s. I just hope he doesn’t have a bad end because of it. And I hope Brianna and Willie meet soon.

i think it’s incredibly stupid that they left the prison keys on the floor for Stephen Bonnet to use to escape. Yes, they were in a rush, but they apparently never learn that he’s good at saving himself. Given how soon the jail blew up after our guys left, there was not time for Stephen to escape, but I am sure he did, and will cause more havoc.

I do like that Briana went to visit Stephen to ty to forgive him. that’s very mature. I was iffy on whether he should know that he possibly has a child, but it did appear that he felt some responsibility, so I guess that’s good.

I liked Roger’s story and how he berated himself for stupidity, but continued to do “stupid” things. The priest’s story was interesting. I agreed with Roger that he should just say the Lord’s Prayer and call it a day. (It’s ironic that the Mohawk were converted to Christianity so thoroughly that they were adamant enough about the baptism to kill him because of it.) I admire faith but his stubbornness was more ego-driven in my opinion. I didn’t suspect the end of the healer until right before it happened, so that shocked me.  I suspect Roger’s actions will make him more respected, but I could be wrong, because of the loss of a healer.

[Ms Lark]

I hate to say it but this was the most incredibly stupid episode of Outlander yet. Just about everyone was stupid AF. At least Roger admitted it. I'm so glad there's only one episode left. Gawd, it's all been senseless violence, rape, and rampant stupidity. Then again, there are a lot of things out there that I won't get into that don't make a damn bit of sense and our characters just play right into it. I did like Fergus and Marsali.

p.s. Padre, anyone can perform a baptism in an emergency. Anyone, ya stupid fuck.

[Hook75]

This show is doing the same mistake Arrow did. Instead of keeping the show focus on the lead characters, it is now a show about a bunch of characters I do not GAF about. 

WHERE is Jamie? WTF is he MIA for 3!!!! epes? 

WAY too much Roger and Brianna, and I fucking hate that Lord John is now a prop to Brianna.

[Otherkate]

I'm only halfway through this episode and bored out of my mind. 

Why is there so much Roger? Why? Why are we being introduced to this priest with so little left in the season? WHY?? I don't care about any of this. Hoping for a much better second half, but currently Roger and this priest are seriously droning on and on to each other and I'm going to start folding clothes.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

6 hours ago, nara said:

Brianna to Lord John: “You are impossible not to like.” Perhaps the most true statement ever spoken in the series.

It was funny, because my Mom had been saying pretty much the same thing before Bree said that.

So far the only one who seems to disagree is Murtagh.

[bird9911]

I couldn't understand what he said & I watched it 4 times!

[morgan]

“That’s it lads, take me back to the idiot hut.”

[Cdh20]

Rik gets the acting award of this week! 

Briana got a gemstone for future time travel ( now her & Roger each have one)! Clearly she shouldn’t have told Bonnet about the baby though because he surely escaped that jail before the explosion & will be back to torture the Fraser’s next season.

Marsali driving the get-a-way wagon was the best!

I was totally shocked when the woman jumped into the fire. And who will raise her baby?

John & Murtagh battling to be Jamie’s bestie, lol.

Problems of the week: I missed Jamie ( & Claire & Ian), & the mumbling, Omg I will have to watch again as it seemed everyone was mumbling.

[BitterApple]

Arghhhh!!!! This was the dumbest episode in four seasons of this series.

We've got two epis left, why the hell are the show runners wasting time on ancillary characters who a) have no relevance to the main plots and b) die and will never be seen again? COME ON.

Yeah, what happened to Ferigault was sad, but if I had to choose between slowly burning to death and pouring water over a kid's head and living happily ever after, guess which route I'm going? 

And where the hell was Roger limping off to? He's injured, has no horse, no food, no weapons, no money and no familiarity with his surroundings, but he's going to what? Shlep to the Greyhound Terminal and book a ticket south? It probably would've taken the Mohawk all of an hour to re-capture him, if that.

Which brings me to Brianna. Yes, girlfriend. Smart move revealing your pregnancy to a cagey, clever man who already escaped death once. Since everything on this show always goes according to plan, that won't come back to bite her in the ass, amirite?

SO. MUCH. STUPIDITY.

Edited January 21, 2019 by BitterApple

[Noneofyourbusiness]

17 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:

Briana got a gemstone for future time travel ( now her & Roger each have one)!

Roger actually has two, one for each of them.

18 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

And where the hell was Roger limping off to? He's injured, has no horse, no food, no weapons, no money and no familiarity with his surroundings, but he's going to what? Shlep to the Greyhound Terminal and book a ticket south? It probably would've taken the Mohawk all of an hour to re-capture him, if that.

Probably back to the stones.

[Cdh20]

15 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Roger actually has two, one for each of them.

Probably back to the stones.

Good, they have one for the baby too!

[Iguessnot]

Once again we are treated with an Olivia Benson script with Brianna needing to speak to Bonnet for closure and forgiveness. Even Bonnet looked at her wondering what time period her ramblings were from. I don't remember what decade Brianna was living, but I think is was a good 30 or 40 more years before the rape closure lingo was integrated into our everyday dialogue.

I've always liked Roger. He said some things that can be considered sexist, though not out of the ordinary for the time and place. Brianna called him a hypocrite, they argued and later reconciled albeit for a short time. I find the relationship interesting although Brianna is a brat.

The actress must think that in order to convey seriousness, she must look constipated and/or in pain. It is hard to decipher some of her scenes because unless she's smiling, we get the pained expression throughout her performance.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

I don't remember what decade Brianna was living, but I think is was a good 30 or 40 more years before the rape closure lingo was integrated into our everyday dialogue.

It was 1970 when she and Roger left.

[Cdh20]

42 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

It was 1970 when she and Roger left.

Actually it was 1971. They mentioned it several times.

[IrishPirate]

The priest's insistence that he couldn't baptize because of his own sin? That heresy was dealt with centuries earlier. The sacraments are about God's action and do not depend on the goodness of the one who performs the ritual.

Beyond that, MsLark is right: anyone can baptize, though given the times and the Mohawk social rules, the priest wasn't just anybody.

[Otherkate]

The whole priest storyline was just stupid people making stupid decisions and I don't know why it was needed at all. The priest was ridiculous and the woman was stupid for abandoning her own child. And, besides that, I'm not sure why I should have cared about any of them.

I was pretty into the other storyline. Brianna isn't my favorite character, but I don't mind her. Plus, I love anything that involves Fergus and Marsali. 

I don't obsess over Jamie and Claire, but their absence didn't do this episode any favors. Would have liked to see them and Ian.

[taanja]

12 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

Rik gets the acting award of this week! 

Briana got a gemstone for future time travel ( now her & Roger each have one)! Clearly she shouldn’t have told Bonnet about the baby though because he surely escaped that jail before the explosion & will be back to torture the Fraser’s next season.

Marsali driving the get-a-way wagon was the best!

I was totally shocked when the woman jumped into the fire. And who will raise her baby?

John & Murtagh battling to be Jamie’s bestie, lol.

Problems of the week: I missed Jamie ( & Claire & Ian), & the mumbling, Omg I will have to watch again as it seemed everyone was mumbling.

I thought rejected Indian dude was going to throw that baby into the fire along with it's mother and father. Seriously when he went and picked the baby up -- I braced myself.

Not gonna lie---I didn't miss Clare or Jaime. 

I was interested to see what was happening to Roger-- yup! he's totally regretting traveling through time and space to chase his love. Haha! The past sucks eh Rodge?

I like Brianna and Lord John-- can they be a couple and let Roger go back to the future?

But I know this show is making a big deal of Bree accepting and loving her child even though it "might" be the product of her rape--- but they are gonna cop out -- I can tell. They are going to eventually make it Roger's baby so all that speculation and angst was just for drama. Oh will Brianna be able to love it? Will Roger accept it if it's not his..

If they really believed what they preach-- they would positively absolutely without a doubt make it Bonnet's child. < and then let's see what everyone really feels!!! 

And I'm gonna say it-- I like Steven Bonnet. (The actor playing him is clearly having a fun time being a villain) That scene in the jail between Bree and Bonnet was intriguing -- and OF COURSE he escaped! To live and cause havoc another day! Good times!

Oh and I'm glad the old coot Murtagh made it out of jail. And it's back to Fraser's Ridge they all go!

[BitterApple]

The mercy kill seemed like a rip-off of Last Of The Mohicans, when Daniel Day Lewis' character shot the British officer being burned at the stake. 

I'm also confused why the healer walked into the fire. The priest wasn't willing to compromise his principals for her, so why was she willing to commit suicide for him? 

taanja, I like Brianna better with Lord John as well. He's a stand-up guy, easy on the eyes, respectable and wouldn't make any sexual demands, which would be ideal for someone who suffered an assault. Of course we all know she'll choose Roger, but a girl can dream. 

Regarding Bonnet, he's a great villain. I'm assuming he'll die at some point just like BJR did, but I don't want Ed Speleers leaving my TV screen any time soon.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

6 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

Actually it was 1971. They mentioned it several times.

I was remembering the Scottish festival, when it was still 1970. That last part was unnecessary. And 1971 was actually only mentioned aloud once, by Jamie to Murtagh. I've been looking at the scripts - that is, the online transcripts of the captions from the already-aired episodes - for information.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Athena]

Please do not talk about the book talk thread, their opinions, or your knowledge of spoilers. Thanks.

[Cdh20]

1 hour ago, Athena said:

Please do not talk about the book talk thread, their opinions, or your knowledge of spoilers. Thanks.

Sorry I think that was me, although I don't think I gave anything away. 

[Dancelove]

Although I think of Platoon whenever the Barber Adagio for Strings piece is used to end in tragedy, it worked pretty well for this, and it's nothing if not emotional.  The couple were incredible actors- and I forgot all about the rest of the story. 

 Roger also hit it out of the park in the acting department. This was the centrepiece of the season. From his dream of waking up in 1971 to a hot shower, to this merciful way to end the priest's life,  this was stone cold drama that moved me.. Frankly, the rest seems like soapy camp by comparison. 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Dancelove

[ganesh]

On 1/20/2019 at 12:53 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Oh, Brianna, you don't need to see Bonnet in order to get closure and move on. Honestly, the last thing you should do with someone like that is give him the opportunity to wound you further. Why would she go to the jail, tell him her name, and tell him that she's pregnant? That's just giving him ammunition. Come on, girl, don't you know that's just asking for fate to somehow set him free so he can come after you and try to take your baby?

It seems like there's so much contrived acts going on to push the plot through. I was hoping John would discuss this with her more. She said herself she doesn't know whose it is for sure though.

I did like Roger telling off the priest but if I were him, I would have just done the baptism myself. 

I wouldn't have gone back either. You can take your sanctimony to the grave padre. 

[OutTheBlue]

This episode was awful. I don't know what else to say.

On 1/21/2019 at 12:55 PM, taanja said:

I thought rejected Indian dude was going to throw that baby into the fire along with it's mother and father. Seriously when he went and picked the baby up -- I braced myself.

Not gonna lie---I didn't miss Clare or Jaime. 

 

I thought the same thing about the baby, ugh.  

I did miss them though, I'm getting tired of the Roger/Mohawk saga.

[ganesh]

I find the whole regulator plot more interesting, and I thought staying at Riverrun would have been interesting too. Learning about southern society at that time seemed like it would generate a lot of story lines. The whole dinner party was good. 

This plot of searching for Roger and everything is just flat since the entire premise was contrived - people not communicating effectively. We're not even learning much of Mohawk society, which seems like a missed opportunity. 

[BitterApple]

5 hours ago, OutTheBlue said:

I'm getting tired of the Roger/Mohawk saga.

I am as well. It serves no purpose other than to have Roger spin his wheels while we wait for the inevitable rescue. 

Like you said, this episode was pretty bad. It's disappointing because after the rough start I felt like Season 4 had finally gained momentum. The finale better be a slam dunk.

[Camera One]

Talk about disturbing visuals.  I did not need to see a few more people burning to death.  I guess they got bored of prisons in Scotland the last few seasons, so let's explore colonial and Mohawk prisons.  

I don't see how Jaime's letter would compel Brianna to go forgive Bonnet.  That made the entire subplot unconvincing and annoying to watch.  And of course the sadistic psycho will escape to cause more drama.

The Murtaugh rescue attempt was more interesting, but got the short shrift.  

I thought the actor who played Roger did a great job in a tediously endless story of his capture.  I think it's believable that someone from the 1700s would have the mindset that the priest had.  I'm not sure how historically accurate this was, though, that they would torture a priest who withheld baptism.  As someone else said above, Roger could have done it.  I thought they were going to bring up that he was raised by a Reverend.  I'm finding it rather annoying that they are not using Roger's historical knowledge to make the storyline more personalized.  He could have been anything else.  Ditto for Brianna's knowledge as an engineer.  It's strange because they constantly allow Claire to save the day or use her encyclopedic knowledge of all herbs and medical conditions.  

Why does this show have to be so depressing.  At least I still find it rather engaging, since it's hard to resist watching another episode.  I'll be sad when I get caught up.

[Cdh20]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

Talk about disturbing visuals.  I did not need to see a few more people burning to death.  I guess they got bored of prisons in Scotland the last few seasons, so let's explore colonial and Mohawk prisons.  

I don't see how Jaime's letter would compel Brianna to go forgive Bonnet.  That made the entire subplot unconvincing and annoying to watch.  And of course the sadistic psycho will escape to cause more drama.

The Murtaugh rescue attempt was more interesting, but got the short shrift.  

I thought the actor who played Roger did a great job in a tediously endless story of his capture.  I think it's believable that someone from the 1700s would have the mindset that the priest had.  I'm not sure how historically accurate this was, though, that they would torture a priest who withheld baptism.  As someone else said above, Roger could have done it.  I thought they were going to bring up that he was raised by a Reverend.  I'm finding it rather annoying that they are not using Roger's historical knowledge to make the storyline more personalized.  He could have been anything else.  Ditto for Brianna's knowledge as an engineer.  It's strange because they constantly allow Claire to save the day or use her encyclopedic knowledge of all herbs and medical conditions.  

Why does this show have to be so depressing.  At least I still find it rather engaging, since it's hard to resist watching another episode.  I'll be sad when I get caught up.

I thought most of the gruesome deaths happened to characters we barely knew this season ( compared to past seasons where it was beloved sidekicks & villains ). Bree & Roger did endure horrible assaults, but Jamie & Claire are completely unscathed this season. 
 

My hubby is always expecting some of these people to invent things ( future things they need). 
 

Season 4 is my least favourite season, but it is still engaging! Do you get to watch season 5 as well? 

[gingerella]

Well, I'm not gonna lie...This was probably THE WORST episode in all four seasons. Honestly? I fast forwarded through it here and there because it was that tedious and boring as fuck.

The highlight wasn't even about the actual episode, it was in the season opening when we see the dead slave and I realized that this season is nothing but a gigantic shit burger, with a side of hot, steaming rubbish. Who the fuck directed this shite, and who green lit this crap fest?! This is just horrible. Just when you think the season can't get worse, guess what? There's more rot festering under that there barrel folks so let's knock it over and have a close up look, shall we?

Poor, stupid idiot Roger. Stupid, idiot, moron French priest. Bless the damn baby and be done with it, and then go live in happiness with your beautiful wife.

The dialogue between Brianna and Lord John couldn't get any more stilted, unemotional, and just blank. Like they're reading off cue cards. And how is it that obviously preggers Brianna is swanning about River Run showing her pregnancy, whilst still being only engaged to Lord John? Riddle me that Aunt Jocasta? How is that less sinful and reputation damning than just being unwed and pregnant OR being pregnant and saying you were married and your husband was abducted by the Mohawk? I mean, it's the truth so why don't these characters state the obvious?!? Can you tell how goddamn mad I am about this crap? Yeah, I'm pissed off that I wasted an hour on this garbage. How has this show fallen so badly, that's what I want to know? How do people think this is good story telling? And more importantly, HOW on earth did a crew that made The Wedding and A.Malcom also make this dreck?!?

Earlier in the episode, when Roger got the pain meds from Frenchie, I thought, okay he's got an inside friend now, and somehow Roger will end up doing something that the Mohawk dude will appreciate deeply - something with modern knowledge that only Roger has - and that will endear him to Mohawk dude and he'll help free Roger. At the end of the epi I figure Roger will likely offer to baptize the child and he'll 'save the day' and they'll all like him and treat him better.

Fergus & Marsali are Ye Olde Bonnie and Clyde, and I'm here for it! It's a bit slapstick, a bit Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, and a bit Bonanza, but it's fun, they're not getting killed - at least not yet - and they're getting shit done, son! Marsali is like a way younger,, much better looking version of Miss Kitty, she of the Cartwright clan. THAT'S how you do it, thankyouverymuch! And with one hand no less. But may I say, Murtagh needs a wig disguise or to shave his noggin because he's way too conspicuous. And Marsali driving the get away wagon was all kinds of crazy! But how to do they know the way to Fraser's Ridge? How will they get into the cabin? Is there a key? Is there a care taker to let them in? Is there a AAA to make them a triptic for their journey? These are questions I want answered.

No Claire, Jamie, Ian, or Rollo. I missed them. Oh, and because it needs to be said again, Roger is an idiot, and this season sucks.

Edited October 22, 2021 by gingerella

[SassAndSnacks]

12 hours ago, gingerella said:

Well, I'm not gonna lie...This was probably THE WORST episode in all four seasons. Honestly? I fast forwarded through it here and there because it was that tedious and boring as fuck. ...

No Claire, Jamie, Ian, or Rollo. I missed them. Oh, and because it needs to be said again, Roger is an idiot, and this season sucks.

AGREEEEEEEEE!!!  I profusely love your entire comment.  The whole shebang.  I'm here for Jamie and Claire and if you don't give me Jamie and Claire, then why am I here?  Additionally, if you aren't going to give me Jamie and Claire, then freaking give me Ian.  This episode had a whole lot of nothing in it for me.  I hated it.  

12 hours ago, gingerella said:

The dialogue between Brianna and Lord John couldn't get any more stilted, unemotional, and just blank. Like they're reading off cue cards.

Honestly, I struggle with every single Bri scene.  I can't take it.  I think it is one of the main struggles of the season, where they are departing large portions of the story from Jamie and Claire and focusing on other characters.  I think that would be fine if the actors had the same chops and chemistry, but these folks do not.  (Now Marsali and Fergus...different opinion there.)  Some of these people look like they are trying SO hard, and it is painful to watch.  

12 hours ago, gingerella said:

And how is it that obviously preggers Brianna is swanning about River Run showing her pregnancy, whilst still being only engaged to Lord John? Riddle me that Aunt Jocasta? How is that less sinful and reputation damning than just being unwed and pregnant OR being pregnant and saying you were married and your husband was abducted by the Mohawk? I mean, it's the truth so why don't these characters state the obvious?!?

  Yes, this storyline is just flat-out stupid and embarrassing.  It induces me to sobbing "WHY! WHY! WHY!" (insert Nancy Kerrigan voice)

Rewatching this season further confirms for me why I never rewatch this season.

[gingerella]

3 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Yes, this storyline is just flat-out stupid and embarrassing.  It induces me to sobbing "WHY! WHY! WHY!" (insert Nancy Kerrigan voice)

Rewatching this season further confirms for me why I never rewatch this season.

Your Nancy Kerrigan reference cracked me right up, thank you!

Apologies for dragging you through the mud with us on this season, but appreciative you are here commiserating nonetheless!

BTW, my viewing notes for this weren't even a half page.

And not for nothing, but the cosmos are in agreement because this ad was at the bottom of this page, no doubt inferring that copious amounts of alcohol must be consumed to watch this turd show.

Edited October 22, 2021 by gingerella

[Cdh20]

Season 5 is so much better! 

[Beeyago]

I barely remember this season at all. I flew thru it and haven’t rewatched any of it.  Was this the first season Ron Moore was gone as showrunner?  I think they lost their good writers and directors too this season. 

[Camera One]

I haven't followed the behind-the-scenes of the show at all, so I've never heard of Ron Moore, but I looked him up, and it sounds like he was still the showrunner in Season 3-4.  Maybe Matt Roberts took over officially for Season 5?

Anyway, it looks like by both Season 3 and Season 4, he was becoming less directly involved:

Quote

I’m still the showrunner, but a lot of the day-to-day showrunning is done by [executive producers] Matt Roberts and Toni Graphia … I’ve delegated more authority to them. Matt is on the ground a lot in the U.K., and Toni is in charge of the writers’ room. And they both report to me and I still sort of oversee the whole production. But I’m not on the front lines like I was.

And this year, he's leaving Sony Pictures for 20th Television, and it looks like (from an article earlier this year about Season 6) he will still be somewhat involved.  This is what Ron Moore said this year when asked:

Quote

It’s the same as it has been the last couple seasons in that I no longer day-to-day showrun it; the showrunner is Matt Roberts, who was with us from the very beginning of the project. I see the scripts and look at the cuts and give feedback to Matt and then he goes off and takes the notes — or doesn’t. My involvement will continue on both those avenues going forward.

I don't think season 4 has been worse than previous seasons per se... it has just been different.  Every season so far has been quite different as it has moved gradually away from the premise in Scotland.  Some of the problems I think have been constants, like the over-reliance on gore, violence, rape, contrivances and frustrating separations.  Maybe these recurring issue become more and more of a problem as a series wears on, because they feel more and more repetitious and tired.  The problem could be show-based or book-based or both.  Still, I don't think the show has jumped the shark quite yet.  It may be frustrating to watch, but I'm still on the edge of my seat waiting for the next episode.  

Edited October 24, 2021 by Camera One

[Noneofyourbusiness]

13 hours ago, Beeyago said:

I barely remember this season at all. I flew thru it and haven’t rewatched any of it.  Was this the first season Ron Moore was gone as showrunner?  I think they lost their good writers and directors too this season. 

 

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

I haven't followed the behind-the-scenes of the show at all, so I've never heard of Ron Moore, but I looked him up, and it sounds like he was still the showrunner in Season 3-4.  Maybe someone else took over for Season 5?

Ron Moore is still showrunner as we speak. Season 4 had largely the same writers as the previous season.

I was taken aback that you hadn't heard of Ron Moore before. He's also the showrunner of For All Mankind and was the showrunner of Battlestar Galactica (which, like Outlander, featured the famous musical compositions of Bear McCreary), as well as working on Star Trek: The Next Generation, the movie Star Trek: First Contact and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (along with Ira Behr, who also works on Outlander).

.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Beeyago]

Ok I thought Ron left, but his name is still in the opening credits so I was just confused. I remember Sam & Caitriona pushing to be named producers in season five because so many of the writers, directors and producers had left and they were worried about continuity and quality. I was thinking Ron was one of them. 

[gingerella]

14 hours ago, Camera One said:

I don't think season 4 has been worse than previous seasons per se... it has just been different.  Every season so far has been quite different as it has moved gradually away from the premise in Scotland.  Some of the problems I think have been constants, like the over-reliance on gore, violence, rape, contrivances and frustrating separations.  Maybe these recurring issue become more and more of a problem as a series wears on, because they feel more and more repetitious and tired.  The problem could be show-based or book-based or both.  Still, I don't think the show has jumped the shark quite yet.  It may be frustrating to watch, but I'm still on the edge of my seat waiting for the next episode. 

Well, as much as I loathed the Pirates of the Caribbean last season, I loathe S04 more overall. I think part is that we're not embracing Scotland anymore, even though I've heard this is still shot there, which is odd because they've gone to great pains to Americanize the scenery to what I know of the Eastern Seaboard of the US. That said, I do think there is way too much reliance on gore, violence, rape and contrivances and it's become a parody because it happens so often. It's a rinse and repeat situation, which is sad because S01 & 02 were so very good. But I'm still watching so...

As for who runs this show, many folks don't know/don't care, we just watch for entertainment. Not everyone who watches delves into the minutae of the background stuff and since this is a No Book Talk area, most of us don't bother to investigate such things because we are trying very hard to not be spoilered. When we ask a question in a post, it's usually a rant and not asking for behind the scenes info, if you know what I mean.

[Camera One]

11 minutes ago, gingerella said:

Well, as much as I loathed the Pirates of the Caribbean last season, I loathe S04 more overall. I think part is that we're not embracing Scotland anymore, even though I've heard this is still shot there, which is odd because they've gone to great pains to Americanize the scenery to what I know of the Eastern Seaboard of the US.

I think this has affected a bit how I see this season, since some of the American scenery is so fake.  Filming in Scotland showing Scotland, I felt more immersed in the "world".

Quote

As for who runs this show, many folks don't know/don't care, we just watch for entertainment. Not everyone who watches delves into the minutae of the background stuff and since this is a No Book Talk area, most of us don't bother to investigate such things because we are trying very hard to not be spoilered. When we ask a question in a post, it's usually a rant and not asking for behind the scenes info, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, agreed.  This was the first time I've looked into the behind-the scenes of this particular show, and I'm not convinced it sheds light on much.  I prefer to judge based on the story itself, which has gotten "wash, rinse, repeat", as you said.  Unfortunately, that is the case with so many shows by the fourth season.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Camera One

[Noneofyourbusiness]

There's nothing wrong with Beeyago asking whether this was the first season where Ron Moore had left.

Many of us feel better or worse about a show knowing who's running it based on our experience with their other work.

[gingerella]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:59 PM, Camera One said:

I don't see how Jaime's letter would compel Brianna to go forgive Bonnet.  That made the entire subplot unconvincing and annoying to watch.  And of course the sadistic psycho will escape to cause more drama.

The Murtaugh rescue attempt was more interesting, but got the short shrift.  

@Camera One, I totally forgot to mention your comment about this. Yes! It dovetails back into the contrivances 'rinse and repeat' nonsense. Of course Brianna simply had to go and forgive Bonnet. To be honest, why on earth would she want to tell this psychopath that she's having his baby. She doesn't even know 100% if it's his or Roger's so why go there? What if he escaped again, wouldn't he come for her and the baby? There's no DNA tests to prove who's the baby daddy. It's just a dumb thing to do. And of course he was going to be able to get the keys and let himself out. And...now come for her and the baby. Jesus H. Christ on cracker, this is so repetitive. I think that's the issue, the repetition of the same tropes over and over and over. Let's pick another option that has better writing, shall we?

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

To be honest, why on earth would she want to tell this psychopath that she's having his baby. She doesn't even know 100% if it's his or Roger's so why go there? What if he escaped again, wouldn't he come for her and the baby? There's no DNA tests to prove who's the baby daddy. It's just a dumb thing to do. And of course he was going to be able to get the keys and let himself out. And...now come for her and the baby. 

It was layers upon layers of unfathomable behavior.  Forgiving Bonnet was bad enough.  Okay fine, let's say we buy it helps with her healing.  As you said, she doesn't even know if the baby is Bonnet's so why on earth would she take another step and tell him about that possibility?  

[SassAndSnacks]

On 10/22/2021 at 5:23 PM, gingerella said:

Apologies for dragging you through the mud with us on this season, but appreciative you are here commiserating nonetheless!

Oh my goodness.  Am I hate watching now?  Is this hate watching?

On 10/24/2021 at 1:00 AM, Camera One said:

The problem could be show-based or book-based or both.  

I think it is both. But, the writers have improved upon poor book storylines before, so they could have/should have done that here, too.  

On 10/24/2021 at 1:00 AM, Camera One said:

It may be frustrating to watch, but I'm still on the edge of my seat waiting for the next episode.  

Ok, yes.  You're right.  I guess I'm not hate watching now, because I'm still looking forward to the next episode. 

17 hours ago, gingerella said:

To be honest, why on earth would she want to tell this psychopath that she's having his baby. She doesn't even know 100% if it's his or Roger's so why go there? What if he escaped again, wouldn't he come for her and the baby?

 

14 hours ago, Camera One said:

It was layers upon layers of unfathomable behavior.  Forgiving Bonnet was bad enough.  Okay fine, let's say we buy it helps with her healing.  As you said, she doesn't even know if the baby is Bonnet's so why on earth would she take another step and tell him about that possibility?

Yes to both of these comments.  At first, I was kind of like "I'm not going to judge the healing process of a rape victim because she needs to do what she needs to do."  Her telling Bonnet that this is his baby makes zero sense for the reasons you pointed out, and it also diminishes Roger's role in this and that he could also be the father.  

[areca]

I just rewatched this episode, and it reinforced my thought that Richard Rankin is likely the best craftsman on the series.  Did he win an Emmy for this episode?  If not, he should have.  My God.  The poor man is saddled with Sophie.

[Pallas]

On 3/19/2022 at 11:22 PM, areca said:

I just rewatched this episode, and it reinforced my thought that Richard Rankin is likely the best craftsman on the series. 

The best remaining, with the departure of Tobias Menzies. A superb actor gives credence and power to any story. His presence is one more reason that the first three seasons stand out, no matter who and what he's playing. 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

Inexplicable decision-making all around.

[mythoughtis]

Yes, leave the keys where Bonnet can get them.  You know he escaped out of a window or a back door.  He’s like a cat with nine lives.  Tell him about the baby - which he’s likely to kidnap and sell.  
 

I can’t believe the Mohawk would have wanted a Christian baptism.  Surely they had their own shaman.  Roger- offer to baptize the baby.  In keeping with people raising other peoples children, the man with the baby will raise it.  It was obvious he loved the baby because he loved the child’s mother.  In his own violent way of course. 
 

The Hole in the Wall gang can find Frasier’s Ridge because Murdaugh has been there.   I love that crew.  Although I did roll my eyes at the choreographed parade of men to the jail that nobody noticed. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I can’t believe the Mohawk would have wanted a Christian baptism.  Surely they had their own shaman.

They were converts. Truth in television.

4 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Roger- offer to baptize the baby.

...that's a very good idea. Why did no one think of that before? Although if Father Alexandre is such a rules martyr, he might object and tell everyone Roger's not qualified because he didn't want his life saved by deception.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

15 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Tell him about the baby - which he’s likely to kidnap and sell.

Sell? Do you mean ransom back to them? I can't think of any other reason he'd want to sell a baby he thought was his rather than either raise him or just leave him with his mother.