The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Lugal]

On 10/2/2017 at 7:13 PM, Captain Carrot said:

I'm thinking that Perlmutter was the only one that wanted it made. From everything I've heard he's the one that wants everything to be as cheap as possible, and seems to be stuck in an 80's mindset on how things work. My guess is that others like Fiege have to fight to offset Perlmutter's influence, and they didn't bother to this time. Maybe they didn't care, or maybe they want it to fail so that Disney will retire Perlmutter. (And yes this is probably just wishful thinking).

It was because of Perlmutter that Feige went to Disney and now the Marvel movies are directly under Disney, while the TV shows are under Marvel.  And I agree that it was Perlmutter who wanted the Inhumans movie, but since he only has control over TV, we got the Inhumans TV series.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/2/2017 at 10:13 PM, Captain Carrot said:

I'm thinking that Perlmutter was the only one that wanted it made. From everything I've heard he's the one that wants everything to be as cheap as possible, and seems to be stuck in an 80's mindset on how things work. My guess is that others like Fiege have to fight to offset Perlmutter's influence, and they didn't bother to this time. Maybe they didn't care, or maybe they want it to fail so that Disney will retire Perlmutter. (And yes this is probably just wishful thinking).

I am aware that there are a lot of people including Fiege at Disney who hate Perlmutter. So the conspiracy part of my brain was kind of wondering if they set him up knowing he would fail in a give him enough rope to hang himself kind of way. Because even if he controls the TV division, how the hell did he manage to swing it so that Inhumans got a theatrical release (even a limited one), especially in a premium ticket format like IMAX?

[scriggle]

On 10/2/2017 at 10:13 PM, Captain Carrot said:

Maybe they didn't care, or maybe they want it to fail so that Disney will retire Perlmutter. (And yes this is probably just wishful thinking).

After the Secret Empire shitshow over in Marvel Comics, the end may be getting closer for Perlmutter.

[Kel Varnsen]

11 minutes ago, scriggle said:

After the Secret Empire shitshow over in Marvel Comics, the end may be getting closer for Perlmutter.

Does he have much control over editorial or is that just run by whoever the editor in chief is? I haven't read any new marvel comics in years but even when I was reading them sales numbers were tiny (like a number 1 comic sold maybe 100,000 issues). So I wonder if Disney really even thinks of Marvel as a publishing company or just sees it as a licensing factory. Also Perlmutter owns a shit ton of Disney stock, to the point where I believe he is one of the largest individual share holders (George Lucas probably owns more) so getting rid of him if he doesn't want to go might not be so easy.

[scriggle]

5 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Does he have much control over editorial or is that just run by whoever the editor in chief is? I haven't read any new marvel comics in years but even when I was reading them sales numbers were tiny (like a number 1 comic sold maybe 100,000 issues). So I wonder if Disney really even thinks of Marvel as a publishing company or just sees it as a licensing factory. Also Perlmutter owns a shit ton of Disney stock, to the point where I believe he is one of the largest individual share holders (George Lucas probably owns more) so getting rid of him if he doesn't want to go might not be so easy.

I don't know how much editorial control he has but he is overall in charge of the comics division. Secret Empire absolutely tanked their sales. I've read that Disney has pulled the Star Wars comics from Marvel and outsourced them and that was one series that actually sells. The writing may be on the wall. He is getting on in years so maybe he'll retire.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

[xaxat]

That's the best.

[Wynterwolf]

Filming news from Atlanta:

 

I suspect "Marissa" is Marisa Tomei.  

[Cobalt Stargazer]

And that 'Colby' is Cobie Smulders.

[Wynterwolf]

Ha!  Didn't even realize she was misspelled too.  

Also, Ace Comic Con in Arizona came out with a Captain America & Spiderman heavy line up:

Ace Universe Comic Con

[HunterHunted]

21 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

Filming news from Atlanta:

 

I suspect "Marissa" is Marisa Tomei.  

21 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

And that 'Colby' is Cobie Smulders.

 

Flim Springfield

[Jazzy24]

I have never been so confused by spoilers in my life. Every time I hear anything about the Avengers movie filming or casting I scratch my head, it’s so weird and I’m so confused. 

But I think Marvel will be releasing a teaser trailer for Avengers Infinity War this month and also Black Panther should be getting that official trailer out soon to. On one hand I’m excited for the Infinity War trailer but on the other I’m not ready to see my favs getting beat up and dying so a part of me wants to tell Marvel that they can keep their movie. 

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm so desperately behind in watching the marvel movies. I recently tried to watch age of ultron but i turned it off about 10ish minutes in. It was starting out really slow and even then things didn't seem up to snuff. Nat having to sing a lullaby to the hulk to calm him down seemed so unecessary? Pointless? I just found it odd. I made it up to the point where wanda mindzapped tony into seeing that vision. 

i want to get up to date, but i'm just not feeling it. :(

Edited October 8, 2017 by HoodlumSheep

[Wynterwolf]

Honestly, I'd watch everything else and just read a summary of Age of Ultron, you'll get enough background without having to endure that.  

According to Mark Ruffalo's facebook, a shit ton of Avengers assembled for a photoshoot today.  

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Wynterwolf

[Wynterwolf]

More from the photoshoot (which is apparently why they're all in GA right now... also, love "Mackman"):

[anna0852]

Love this! And really can't wait to see the full photo shoot.

[xaxat]

17 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

More from the photoshoot (which is apparently why they're all in GA right now... also, love "Mackman"):

So Laurence Fishburne switched from DC to Marvel?

[Wynterwolf]

3 minutes ago, xaxat said:

So Laurence Fishburne switched from DC to Marvel?

He's in Ant Man and the Wasp.

 

Quote

Fishburne will be taking on the roll of Dr. Bill Foster. While it’s not yet clear exactly how Foster will play into Ant-Man and The Wasp, he’s yet another significant figure from the world of Marvel comics. Foster acquires the same kind of growing powers that Ant-Man uses, which he deploys under the name Black Goliath.

Link

[Kel Varnsen]

Interesting about Goliath, i wonder if we will ever see Clint Barton using the Pym Tech like he did in the comics.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

 

Could you move the seat up a little?"
"No."

[Wynterwolf]

"Main heroes" in Infinity War (finally something listed with "Bucky"!):

 

Edited October 15, 2017 by Wynterwolf

[Dee]

No Hawkeye or Ant-Man. Interesting.

[Wynterwolf]

3 minutes ago, Dee said:

No Hawkeye or Ant-Man. Interesting.

Spoiler

Since Hawkeye appears to come back as Ronin in A4, maybe he 'dies' early in IW?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

5 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

"Main heroes" in Infinity War (finally something listed with "Bucky"!):

About that chart and viewer perspective:

While I can understand the importance of Bucky Barnes in the MCU, he hasn't really had a story of his own yet. Of the three movies he's been in, it's been about how what happens to him affects Steve, and that's fine as Captain America is one of the franchise's top tier characters. If they give Barnes some agency of his own, unconnected to his long friendship with Cap, great. I would actually be interested in how he deals with being out of cryo again, having to face the memories of his time as the Winter Soldier and how he copes with it. One of the things I've been disappointed with about the movies is their failure to explore the various traumas any of the characters have been through, particularly Wanda. What I'm not interested in is another installment of "Oh no, Bucky fell down a well! How does that make Steve feel?"

Other things:

I'm bummed that Hawkeye might die, both in general and specifically. As much as I think Whedon bungled by having him turn out to be married with kids, A( I like him and B) he's such a third tier character in terms of being given things to do that it'd be like killing Coulson all over again. Natasha and possibly Wanda would care, but aside from him being an Avenger I'm not sure the others would be that invested.

[Wynterwolf]

2 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

What I'm not interested in is another installment of "Oh no, Bucky fell down a well! How does that make Steve feel?"

Definitely!   And going forward, I could see them linking Bucky with T'Challa for subsequent Black Panther movies, with or without Steve.   Plus, now it's Bucky's turn to start returning the favor and saving Steve for a change.  

Re:  Other things:

Spoiler

I'm actually looking forward to having some more individualized focus on Clint.  Natasha would be hugely affected, very similar to how Steve is with Bucky, so it would work for me pretty well as a plot line from that standpoint.  And since they did saddle him with a wife and kids, I think it would definitely work better than anything happening to any of them to trigger his transition for A4.  Sort of a Phoenix rising from the ashes.

[Vera]

Re Other things:

Spoiler

 

I have seen speculation elsewhere that it may not be Hawkeye dying, but his family. Hence the transition to Ronan.

 

[scriggle]

Why would Marvel who keeps such a tight lid on things to the point that actors only get the page of script that they're shooting let a spoiler like that be released?

Spoiler

All I can say is they better not kill Steve.

[Wynterwolf]

Re:  Other things:

Spoiler

LOL yeah, I saw that too... they're going to torture us with the whole 'Who's gonna DIEEEEEE!!' for the next two f***ing years!  UGH.  But re: Hawkeye - having it be his family or his wife is, I think, the expected answer... but also so, so cliche.  That's why I was thinking of some other possibility.  And that casting call could be for someone else entirely, or it could be a flashback... it could be so many things!  Argh!! 

Just now, scriggle said:

Why would Marvel who keeps such a tight lid on things to the point that actors only get the page of script that they're shooting let a spoiler like that be released?

  Reveal hidden contents

All I can say is they better not kill Steve.

Because they want to torture us.  ;-)

[scriggle]

Two additional links relating to the "other things" @Vera posted:

Spoiler

MCU Exchange & Project Casting

The first says it's casting for Avengers 4 and the other says it's for IW.

So are they adding this to IW which was supposed top have been wrapped when we already know everyone's been on set for A4 filming? Or is it really something that happens in A4?

I don't know a lot about IW in the comics but from what I understand Thanos wins, everybody dies, and then Gamorra/Nebula(?) somehow kills Thanos and uses the infinity stones to reset the universe bringing everybody back to life. Am I mostly correct?

I honestly hope they don't kill anyone permanently.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 hours ago, scriggle said:

Why would Marvel who keeps such a tight lid on things to the point that actors only get the page of script that they're shooting let a spoiler like that be released?

  Reveal hidden contents

All I can say is they better not kill Steve.

I belong to a Facebook group about the MCU, and rumor has it that Ruffalo has been a bit of a problem child when it comes to accidentally saying things/giving away details about the upcoming movie, to the point that someone joked that he better not get fired because he leaked the trailer to the internet.

[scriggle]

4 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I belong to a Facebook group about the MCU, and rumor has it that Ruffalo has been a bit of a problem child when it comes to accidentally saying things/giving away details about the upcoming movie, to the point that someone joked that he better not get fired because he leaked the trailer to the internet.

Ruffalo was livestreaming before the Thor3 premiere and forgot to shut off his phone, thus livestreaming the audio of the first 10 minutes of the movie. He also posted an instagram story of the photoshoot of the entire MCU cast that was done a week or so ago. Brie Larson had to tell him he wasn't supposed to do that. I haven't heard/seen anything about him leaking stuff about IW.

 

[SimoneS]

9 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

"Main heroes" in Infinity War (finally something listed with "Bucky"!):

 

OMG, I love that Danai Gurira's character is named as one of the main heroes. Hopefully, it means that she has more than one line of dialogue and is involved in the fight scenes. I have never heard of Shuri. I am a little disappointed that Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie isn't there, but still it is nice to see three black women there.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 hour ago, scriggle said:

Two additional links relating to the "other things" @Vera posted:

  Reveal hidden contents

MCU Exchange & Project Casting

The first says it's casting for Avengers 4 and the other says it's for IW.

So are they adding this to IW which was supposed top have been wrapped when we already know everyone's been on set for A4 filming? Or is it really something that happens in A4?

I don't know a lot about IW in the comics but from what I understand Thanos wins, everybody dies, and then Gamorra/Nebula(?) somehow kills Thanos and uses the infinity stones to reset the universe bringing everybody back to life. Am I mostly correct?

I honestly hope they don't kill anyone permanently.

I don't know the comics either, but over almost a decade and however many movies the only three people they've killed permanently are Coulson, Quicksilver and Yondu, and I think Quicksilver stands the most chance  of being brought back because of Wanda.   Even if Clint buys it during IW and stays dead, he'll only be the fourth actual casualty.  I hardly think they're going to pull a Rogue One here.[/.spoiler]

[Wynterwolf]

2 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I have never heard of Shuri.

Shuri is T'Challa's sister.

[anna0852]

I also feel like they are missing Nick Fury, Maria Hill and Scott Lang.

[Kel Varnsen]

11 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I also feel like they are missing Nick Fury, Maria Hill and Scott Lang.

I like Maria Hill as a character, but I don't think she has ever been a main hero or even a main character in any MCU movie. So I wouldn't expect her to be a main hero in a movie with something like 80 actual super heroes in it.

[Wynterwolf]

Just now, Kel Varnsen said:

I like Maria Hill as a character, but I don't think she has ever been a main hero or even a main character in any MCU movie. So I wouldn't expect her to be a main hero in a movie with something like 80 actual super heroes in it.

Yeah, and I think Nick falls into that category too... he's not an Avenger, he's Avenger adjacent.  And I'm guessing Scott is 'elsewhere', kind of like Thor and Banner/Hulk were elsewhere during CW. 

[Kel Varnsen]

44 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Yeah, and I think Nick falls into that category too... he's not an Avenger, he's Avenger adjacent.  And I'm guessing Scott is 'elsewhere', kind of like Thor and Banner/Hulk were elsewhere during CW. 

Scott is probably there. I assumed if the resolution on my laptop was much better I could see him.

I do like that Nebula is there. If anyone is deserving of a chance to kick Thanos's ass it is her.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

"Because I'm worthy worth it..."

[dusang]

20 hours ago, scriggle said:

I love everything about this. Also, if you look at the responses to this on Twitter ... it's gold. 

[Wynterwolf]

"snipers"

Heh. 

[anna0852]

As I sit here watching Agent Carter I keep thinking that if they can't use the Time Stone in Infinity Wars to let her meet Natasha and Maria Hill then something is seriously wrong. I would pay serious money to see those three women in at least one scene together.

[Kel Varnsen]

23 hours ago, anna0852 said:

As I sit here watching Agent Carter I keep thinking that if they can't use the Time Stone in Infinity Wars to let her meet Natasha and Maria Hill then something is seriously wrong. I would pay serious money to see those three women in at least one scene together.

I would only pay money if one of the other women says something like "what the fuck Peggy, how did you not realize your organization was completely infiltrated by HYDRA?".

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I would only pay money if one of the other women says something like "what the fuck Peggy, how did you not realize your organization was completely infiltrated by HYDRA?".

"Because half of the time they hid things from me and the other half, they treated me like a secretary."

Though it's not hard to see how it happened. Kurtwood Smith's character was already HYDRA and an SSR bureau chief even before SHIELD was founded. There must have been many more like him. Furthermore, SHIELD like the real US government recruited Axis scientists after the war. Basically, what Agent Carter starts delving into in season 2 is that there was never going to be situation where HYDRA hadn't infiltrated ALL of the major players. We know that Vita, Isodyne, and Roxxon are HYDRA companies. Roxxon also has connections to The Hand. The Hand was also connected to Rand Enterprises, Midland Circle Financial, and Wilson Fisk. Peggy never really had a chance.

[Kel Varnsen]

16 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

"Because half of the time they hid things from me and the other half, they treated me like a secretary."

Though it's not hard to see how it happened. Kurtwood Smith's character was already HYDRA and an SSR bureau chief even before SHIELD was founded. There must have been many more like him. Furthermore, SHIELD like the real US government recruited Axis scientists after the war. Basically, what Agent Carter starts delving into in season 2 is that there was never going to be situation where HYDRA hadn't infiltrated ALL of the major players. We know that Vita, Isodyne, and Roxxon are HYDRA companies. Roxxon also has connections to The Hand. The Hand was also connected to Rand Enterprises, Midland Circle Financial, and Wilson Fisk. Peggy never really had a chance.

Except if you are running a huge intelligence organization and are supposed  to be the greatest spy who ever lived, you should be able to figure out how to run counter-intelligence within your organization to monitor for comprimised agents or moles. Especially if you already know that people recruited from Germany may have Nazi ties. It is not like this is something totally unheard of. 

[Perfect Xero]

13 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Except if you are running a huge intelligence organization and are supposed  to be the greatest spy who ever lived, you should be able to figure out how to run counter-intelligence within your organization to monitor for comprimised agents or moles. Especially if you already know that people recruited from Germany may have Nazi ties. It is not like this is something totally unheard of. 

The problem with MCU Hydra is that it was bigger and older than the Nazis, that was just one arm of what they did and their first 'public' effort. They were Fascists, but didn't actually care about the racial superiority that defined the Nazis. You can be looking at the former Nazis but it's just as likely that the Hydra agent who went unnoticed and rose up the ranks was the Jewish war hero from Long Island or the Black scientist from Texas.

It's also entirely probable that Hydra was playing a long game. Get people in the door and just have them do their jobs until they can bump off Howard Stark and wait for Peggy to retire, then make their move to seize control.

[Dandesun]

Nick Fury is an amazing spy and has trust issues and he didn't see it coming until the 11th hour either. Natasha is an amazing spy who came in from the cold on the other side and didn't see it. Steve didn't like any of it and was only there in the first place because of his admiration for Peggy. Peggy acknowledged the compromises they made (so does Steve when it comes to the SSR during the war) and admits that they 'mucked it up' but I'm never certain how much she knew. Did she suspect when Howard and Maria were killed? When did Peggy get out and how did she manage to cover her ass so that Hydra didn't wipe her out, too?

Hell, I think Nick gave Steve that flashdrive because Steve didn't like any of the shit going on with Project Insight (or any of the stuff beforehand hence "I'm getting a little tired of being Fury's janitor") and was the one guy you could trust to tear a new asshole into the situation. Except that wasn't good enough for Steve. He wanted it ALL gone. For anyone who thinks Steve's a boy scout just look at how suspicious and salty Steve is in Winter Soldier. He doesn't trust Fury, he doesn't trust Pierce, he doesn't trust Natasha... the only person he trusts is Sam (good choice) and you know that's because Sam reached out to him as a soldier not a spy. Hell, look at that salty motherfucker when he passes Sharon in the hall after Nick gets gunned down and she revealed herself as monitoring him. Pissed as fuck! And how long did it take for him to realize that one minute after he left Pierce's office an entire STRIKE team was sent to deal with him in an elevator?

There are three pictures in the abandoned camp: Howard, Peggy and Colonel Phillips. Phillips was very much a man who utilized misinformation and outright lies in order to get good intel and Peggy was under his command. And one of many things that poss me off about not getting more Agent Carter was finding out about that file at the end of season two that had M. Carter. Peggy's brother Michael had gone into service before her... he's the reason she joined herself. Or rather his death was.

I don't know that Steve ever saw all of Peggy. As sweet as they were I often wonder if they would have worked out in the long run. Steve is a salty, angry as fuck fighter but there is an idealism to him that might not have survived Peggy's pragmatism in the post-War era... especially into the Cold War. At the very least, I don't know that they would have survived. 

[Wynterwolf]

5 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

It's also entirely probable that Hydra was playing a long game. Get people in the door and just have them do their jobs until they can bump off Howard Stark and wait for Peggy to retire, then make their move to seize control.

That's always how I looked at it... the ones within SHIELD were acting more as sleeper agents, and anything they acted on was done through highly secret and insulated intermediaries... like the Winter Soldier.  

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, Dandesun said:

Nick Fury is an amazing spy and has trust issues and he didn't see it coming until the 11th hour either. Natasha is an amazing spy who came in from the cold on the other side and didn't see it. Steve didn't like any of it and was only there in the first place because of his admiration for Peggy. Peggy acknowledged the compromises they made (so does Steve when it comes to the SSR during the war) and admits that they 'mucked it up' but I'm never certain how much she knew. Did she suspect when Howard and Maria were killed? When did Peggy get out and how did she manage to cover her ass so that Hydra didn't wipe her out, too?

Yea Fury missed it too, maybe it is just with how much they talk up Peggy across the mcu that it kind of bugs me more. And even people with basic governent security clearances get background checks. Is that not something that SHIELD does, do they just hire anyone who shows up at the door?

[anna0852]

Yeah but if you are homegrown HYDRA infiltrator, what is going to show up on your background check?