The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Is anyone else bothered by the scoop on Ant Man and Wasp: Quantumania that Scott is starting the movie having turned into a douchebag obsessed with fame and neglecting his family? Seriously, I’m getting real sick of the MCU writers messing up characters…

I’m not. Mainly because it feels pretty in character to me and I hope that it is more layered than that. Scott has always been written has someone who loves his daughter but who makes decisions (for good reasons) that are detrimental to his relationship with her. Cassie was a kid who overlooked his flaws and now she’s a teen who is less likely to do so. Combine that with the strain of Scott missing 5 years and I would be surprised if there wasn’t drama there. Paul Rudd’s natural charm gives him the ability to play a douchebag that is still likeable. 

[Hiyo]

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It's just a matter of too much story for a movie. First set up that the multiverse is in peril, smushing them together, working on the solution, domain shenanigans, fixing the multiverse and restoring the status quo. Just too much unless you leave out major sections.

Well, for one thing they have 2 Avengers movies to deal with that, and it also doesn't have to be a literal adaptation of the comic storyline (nothing we've seen so far has been an exact adaptation).

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Judging by introducing Kang on Loki and the Multiverse of Madness needing a watch of WandaVision through the post credits they just might be putting major sections onto Disney+ like a comic series would have stories in multiple titles

Yeah, that and there is time between both Avengers movies to slot in a series furthering the story as well.

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I don't really care because it's not lik he's going to stay that way.

I like seeing an avenger actively engaging in the fame aspect of it. I know technically Tony did but he was also already putting himself in the limelight. It was bound to happen. They've also been teasing Scott being a bit of chatty Kathy post blip anyway.

Of course, as a fan of the character, I want to see him hold on to the family he almost lost tight. But, I'm willing to see it play out and I'm also not going to jump to too many conclusions with little to go off of so far.

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I’m not. Mainly because it feels pretty in character to me and I hope that it is more layered than that. Scott has always been written has someone who loves his daughter but who makes decisions (for good reasons) that are detrimental to his relationship with her. Cassie was a kid who overlooked his flaws and now she’s a teen who is less likely to do so. Combine that with the strain of Scott missing 5 years and I would be surprised if there wasn’t drama there. Paul Rudd’s natural charm gives him the ability to play a douchebag that is still likeable. 

Agree with both of your posts.

[tv echo]

What's in each upcoming Phase...

MCU PHASE 5
Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania - Feb. 17, 2023
Secret Invasion (Disney+) - Spring 2023
Guardians of the Galaxy: Vol. 3 - May 5, 2023
Echo - Summer 2023
Loki: Season 2 - Summer 2023
The Marvels - Jul. 28, 2023
Blade - Nov. 3, 2023
Ironheart - Fal 2023
Agatha: Coven of Chaos - Winter 2023/2024
Daredevil: Born Again - Spring 2024
Captain America: New World Order - May 3, 2024
Thunderbolts - Jul. 26, 2024

MCU PHASE 6
Fantastic Four - Nov. 8, 2024
Avengers: The Kang Dynasty - May 2, 2025
Avengers: Secret Wars - Nov. 7, 2025

(Phases 4-6: The Multiverse Saga)

(pic source)

MARVEL Intro & PHASE 5 Announcment | Comic Con 2022 Panel (Kevin Feige)
Films That Rock   Jul 24, 2022

MARVEL PHASE 6 Announcement: New Avengers Movies | Comic Con 2022 Panel (Kevin Feige)
Films That Rock   Jul 24, 2022

Marvel Studios' Stars on Phases 5 and 6 of the MCU from Hall H
Marvel Entertainment    Jul 24, 2022

Edited July 25, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Best of Marvel @ SDCC 2022 | Day 2
Marvel Entertainment    Jul 22, 2022

Best of Marvel @ SDCC 2022 | Day 3
Marvel Entertainment    Jul 23, 2022

Best of Marvel @ SDCC 2022 | Day 4
Marvel Entertainment    Jul 24, 2022

Behind The Scenes of Marvel Studios Visual Development @ SDCC 2022
Marvel Entertainment    Jul 22, 2022

Exclusive Marvel Funko Figures at SDCC 2022
Marvel Entertainment    Jul 24, 2022

Edited July 25, 2022 by tv echo

[Spartan Girl]

9 hours ago, Dani said:

I’m not. Mainly because it feels pretty in character to me and I hope that it is more layered than that. Scott has always been written has someone who loves his daughter but who makes decisions (for good reasons) that are detrimental to his relationship with her. Cassie was a kid who overlooked his flaws and now she’s a teen who is less likely to do so. Combine that with the strain of Scott missing 5 years and I would be surprised if there wasn’t drama there. Paul Rudd’s natural charm gives him the ability to play a douchebag that is still likeable. 

Perhaps I’ll wait til the movie before passing judgement. It’s hard not to be reactionary given the questionable directions the MCU has taken with certain characters lately.

[cambridgeguy]

The MCU loves its immature douchebags who learn to be better: see Tony, Thor, Strange, Loki, etc..  Scott himself was a big manchild at the start of his first film, but he wasn't a prick like the others.  It would also touch on what "should" be true but generally isn't portrayed unless you're Peter Parker - all of these costumed heroes, most of whom don't have secret identities, should be massive celebrities who are recognized and mobbed on sight.  Yet from what we've seen they don't seem to get any more attention that a B-list actor most of the time, have money troubles, etc.  I can easily see Scott letting the fame go to his head, especially because two of the most prominent heroes (Tony and Steve) are dead, and two of the flashiest ones (Thor and Carol) are almost never around.  Someone has to fill the void.

[Raja]

24 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

The MCU loves its immature douchebags who learn to be better: see Tony, Thor, Strange, Loki, etc..  Scott himself was a big manchild at the start of his first film, but he wasn't a prick like the others.  It would also touch on what "should" be true but generally isn't portrayed unless you're Peter Parker - all of these costumed heroes, most of whom don't have secret identities, should be massive celebrities who are recognized and mobbed on sight.  Yet from what we've seen they don't seem to get any more attention that a B-list actor most of the time, have money troubles, etc.  I can easily see Scott letting the fame go to his head, especially because two of the most prominent heroes (Tony and Steve) are dead, and two of the flashiest ones (Thor and Carol) are almost never around.  Someone has to fill the void.

Granted that half of the world was trying to fit back in but the Sam Wilson money problems from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier never rang true.

[Guest]

On 7/25/2022 at 6:00 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Perhaps I’ll wait til the movie before passing judgement. It’s hard not to be reactionary given the questionable directions the MCU has taken with certain characters lately.

At a minimum I’ll wait to see the full trailer released. A really bad recording has leaked and it’s no where near as bad as the written description indicates. I haven’t seen one that has video of the part with Scott and Cassie but a good audio is there and it’s Cassie wanting to be involved and playful jokes at Scott’s expense from the Van Dynes. Pretty consistent with the characters in the previous movies.  

[swanpride]

I will miss child Cassie....

[Raja]

17 minutes ago, swanpride said:

I will miss child Cassie....

Of all the blipped versus those who survived the snap so far I think she is the only character where that 5 year segment made a difference.

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I can easily see Scott letting the fame go to his head, especially because two of the most prominent heroes (Tony and Steve) are dead, and two of the flashiest ones (Thor and Carol) are almost never around.

Especially after the Diner scene in Endgame...which I HATED but, it was there.

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, Raja said:

Granted that half of the world was trying to fit back in but the Sam Wilson money problems from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier never rang true.

Yea with the amount of money of money that Tony was spending just to maintain Avengers operations, paying decent salaries for a handful of active Avengers at any given time would have been peanuts. Especially after what he probably paid to clean up Johannesburg after Age of Ultron.

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Yea with the amount of money of money that Tony was spending just to maintain Avengers operations, paying decent salaries for a handful of active Avengers at any given time would have been peanuts. Especially after what he probably paid to clean up Johannesburg after Age of Ultron.

I'd think Toby or Pepper would have also done Suvivors Benefits for the families of the blipped Avengers...more Pepper than Tony 

[tv echo]

Kevin Feige on MCU Future, Harry Styles & the Young Avengers | MTV News
MTV News    Jul 24, 2022

Kevin Feige Talks X-Men, New Avengers films And Phase 6!!! 2022 San Diego Comic-Con
Phase Zero    Jul 23, 2022

[BetterButter]

‘Avengers: The Kang Dynasty’ to Be Directed by ‘Shang-Chi’ Filmmaker Destin Daniel Cretton

[tv echo]

Kevin Feige on Why He Announced Phase 6 at San Diego Comic-Con 2022 (Exclusive)
By Stacy Lambe‍ 9:58 AM PDT, July 25, 2022
https://www.etonline.com/kevin-feige-on-why-he-announced-phase-6-at-san-diego-comic-con-2022-exclusive-187955 

Quote

“Well, you know, we’re in a slightly different rhythm now. Phases 1, 2 and 3 were less projects over more years. Now, we’re doing more projects, with all the amazing series we were able to do on Disney+, over less years,” Feige said, noting that not every Phase was ending with an Avengers movie. (Black Panther: Wakanda Forever will end Phase 4, while Thunderbolts will end Phase 5.)

“And it felt like we needed to let people know -- people used to have that guide point of when an Avengers would come to cap the Phase -- it felt like announcing today that the Multiverse Saga and two Avengers films would cap that was something that we needed to share,” he continued. 

John Krasinski Talks Reuniting with Steve Carell, Office Fan Theories and Joining the MCU
The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon   Jul 27, 2022

Fallon: Comic-Con, they just announced all these new movies, and they announced that there’s gonna be a new Fantastic Four movie.
Krasinski: Yes.
Fallon: You’re not allowed to say anything.
Krasinski: Nope.
Fallon: I’m not allowed to really ask you.
Krasinski: That’s right.
Fallon: But… you think? You think?
Krasinski: You think?
Fallon: Do you think? Could one think?
Krasinski: Seriously, what have you heard? I need to know.
Fallon: They don’t tell you anything?
Krasinski: They don’t tell you anything.
Fallon: Not until right before you’re about to shoot.
Krasinski: That’s right.

Fallon: And there’s also a rumor that your wife, Emily Blunt, would play Sue Storm.
Krasinski: Oh!
Fallon: You think? Do you think?!
Krasinski: Jimmy, I’m gonna tell you on your show, it’s… (fakes death)
Fallon: Oh my god! Someone killed him right now, can we get him a medic? That’s acting right there!
Krasinski: No, it’s actually a Marvel dart. That’s a Marvel dart, there’s a guy walking around.

(Transcript Source)

Edited July 27, 2022 by tv echo

[SeanC]

This article has been generating a lot of discussion of late, as the most detailed salvo in a number of recent reports about how Marvel Studios has acquired a reputation as a terrible client in the VFX industry:
 

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To get work, the houses bid on a project; they are all trying to come in right under one another’s bids. With Marvel, the bids will typically come in quite a bit under, and Marvel is happy with that relationship, because it saves it money. But what ends up happening is that all Marvel projects tend to be understaffed. Where I would usually have a team of ten VFX artists on a non-Marvel movie, on one Marvel movie, I got two including myself. So every person is doing more work than they need to.

The other thing with Marvel is it’s famous for asking for lots of changes throughout the process. So you’re already overworked, but then Marvel’s asking for regular changes way in excess of what any other client does. And some of those changes are really major. Maybe a month or two before a movie comes out, Marvel will have us change the entire third act. It has really tight turnaround times. So yeah, it’s just not a great situation all around. One visual-effects house could not finish the number of shots and reshoots Marvel was asking for in time, so Marvel had to give my studio the work. Ever since, that house has effectively been blacklisted from getting Marvel work.

Part of the problem comes from the MCU itself — just the sheer number of movies it has. It sets dates, and it’s very inflexible on those dates; yet it’s quite willing to do reshoots and big changes very close to the dates without shifting them up or down. This is not a new dynamic.

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The main problem is most of Marvel’s directors aren’t familiar with working with visual effects. A lot of them have just done little indies at the Sundance Film Festival and have never worked with VFX. They don’t know how to visualize something that’s not there yet, that’s not on set with them. So Marvel often starts asking for what we call “final renders.” As we’re working through a movie, we’ll send work-in-progress images that are not pretty but show where we’re at. Marvel often asks for them to be delivered at a much higher quality very early on, and that takes a lot of time. Marvel does that because its directors don’t know how to look at the rough images early on and make judgment calls. But that is the way the industry has to work. You can’t show something super pretty when the basics are still being fleshed out.

The other issue is, when we’re in postproduction, we don’t have a director of photography involved. So we’re coming up with the shots a lot of the time. It causes a lot of incongruity. A good example of what happens in these scenarios is the battle scene at the end of Black Panther. The physics are completely off. Suddenly, the characters are jumping around, doing all these crazy moves like action figures in space. Suddenly, the camera is doing these motions that haven’t happened in the rest of the movie. It all looks a bit cartoony. It has broken the visual language of the film.

[Kel Varnsen]

I saw that article. It seems weird to single Marvel studios though since I feel like VFX firms low bidding has been a problem since before Marvel studios was a thing. I am also not sure what the solution is. I am not a VFX guy, but I did used to work in an industry where all of our work came from bidding on projects. And sometimes depending on the industry you have to low bid on projects just to keep the lights on.

[SeanC]

22 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

It seems weird to single Marvel studios though since I feel like VFX firms low bidding has been a problem since before Marvel studios was a thing. 

Based on the article, evidently they are particularly dedicated to driving costs down, which results in fewer people being assigned to work on these projects even as they are more demanding than normal.

The choices suggested in the article are that Marvel needs to either (a) commit much earlier in the process to what it wants or (b) be willing to delay movies more extensively when they want to make tons of last-minute changes.

[Kel Varnsen]

23 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Based on the article, evidently they are particularly dedicated to driving costs down, which results in fewer people being assigned to work on these projects even as they are more demanding than normal.

The choices suggested in the article are that Marvel needs to either (a) commit much earlier in the process to what it wants or (b) be willing to delay movies more extensively when they want to make tons of last-minute changes.

But why would Marvel care? They put out a request for VFX companies to bid on a certain project and then accept the cheapest bid that they believe can get the job done? Is it up to them to make sure the company that is bidding low isn't doing the work for cheap by overworking their employees. Maybe the company that bids low is just super efficient. It's not like the VFX people are their employees, they are just paying for the finished product.

I read an article about this system years ago, and for most of these companies they low bid on every job just to get work with the hopes of one day making it big and becoming the next ILM or Weta and then being at the point where they don't have to low-ball.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Kel Varnsen

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But why would Marvel care?

Someone on another board pointed out that the amount of projects Marvel can have in production at the same time bears heavily on it. The new phase, for instance, is very busy, and that's not counting the stuff that's already completed. There were jokes about how bad the CGI in She Hulk was to begin with, and while it's been cleaned up, the quality of the work doesn't always match the quantity of it that's going on.

[SeanC]

23 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But why would Marvel care? They put out a request for VFX companies to bid on a certain project and then accept the cheapest bid that they believe can get the job done? Is it up to them to make sure the company that is bidding low isn't doing the work for cheap by overworking their employees. Maybe the company that bids low is just super efficient. It's not like the VFX people are their employees, they are just paying for the finished product.

I mean, Marvel should care because they should want to be a good company to work with. Now, corporations in reality don't care about that, generally, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't protest their behaviour.

Though it is also affecting the quality of Marvel's own product, as noted in the article.

Just now, Cobalt Stargazer said:

There were jokes about how bad the CGI in She Hulk was to begin with, and while it's been cleaned up, the quality of the work doesn't always match the quantity of it that's going on.

That one, I will say, is slightly different because She-Hulk is a TV show and even an expensive TV show is not going to have movie quality effects. Making a TV show with CGI main characters is a huge gamble, especially when said main character is supposed to be relatively human in appearance.

[tennisgurl]

There has been so much information its all a bit overwhelming. I cant even decide on how to feel about any of the information we have gotten, except that Jameela Jamil as a super villain is amazing casting. 

They sure are going fast with their sagas now, but I suppose they can do that easier now than they did with the Infinity Saga. So much of that was made up on the fly, now they can plan as much as they want, they know what they want and they know that they are going to be allowed to keep making movies for as long as they want. 

Still waiting on the inevitable Young Avengers movie or show. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Luckylyn]

On 7/25/2022 at 10:03 AM, Raja said:

Granted that half of the world was trying to fit back in but the Sam Wilson money problems from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier never rang true.

It really bothered me that it was established that the Avengers weren’t provided for financially, and Sam was basically on his own after the blip.  There should be some sort of salary like people in the military, firefighters, and police get.   Getting a basic income wouldn’t make them less heroic to me.  There should be benefits and a pension.  I get that’s not flashy, but it’s a basic courtesy to help superheroes saving the world be able to pay their bills.    Basically the Avengers are willing to sacrifice everything and the people they help aren’t willing to do the basic minimum to provide for them.

If they are going to stick with the Avengers don’t earn an income thing, I could see Scott feeling the need to leverage his fame to make money.  

[Bruinsfan]

Was Scott ever officially an Avenger anyway? He helped Captain America out when he went rogue against the team's overseers in Civil War, then popped up in Endgame to give them the key to undoing the Snap. But it was all informal, I don't think he ever would have had security clearance or a team ID or anything.

[Raja]

11 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Was Scott ever officially an Avenger anyway? He helped Captain America out when he went rogue against the team's overseers in Civil War, then popped up in Endgame to give them the key to undoing the Snap. But it was all informal, I don't think he ever would have had security clearance or a team ID or anything.

With Director Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. as a sponsoring agency gone under Clint's rules with Wanda he went into battle with the Avengers in the heist mission, therefore Scott is an Avenger. Even with Tony solving the controlling time travel in one night how long he was there for the mission planning and preparation can be argued.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Was Scott ever officially an Avenger anyway? He helped Captain America out when he went rogue against the team's overseers in Civil War, then popped up in Endgame to give them the key to undoing the Snap.

"If you step out that door, you are an Avenger." Clint Barton, Age of Ultron

I don't think there would be a formal induction ceremony or anything. SHIELD was the organization, with Fury and Hill as representatives, but the Avengers themselves were separate. Particularly in cases like Natasha's, since she was a Hydra/Red Room operative before she and Barton crossed paths. Yeah, they did the thing in Infinity War where Tony "granted" Peter Avengerhood (Avengership?) but I always thought it was more a matter of, "If you fight with us, you're one of us."

[Raja]

34 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

"If you step out that door, you are an Avenger." Clint Barton, Age of Ultron

I don't think there would be a formal induction ceremony or anything. SHIELD was the organization, with Fury and Hill as representatives, but the Avengers themselves were separate. Particularly in cases like Natasha's, since she was a Hydra/Red Room operative before she and Barton crossed paths. Yeah, they did the thing in Infinity War where Tony "granted" Peter Avengerhood (Avengership?) but I always thought it was more a matter of, "If you fight with us, you're one of us."

About as close to a formal induction that  we got was the end of Age of Ultron when War Machine and Falcon, who had fought with Ironman and Captain America but not the entire team where replacing folks and they teased an "Avengers..." comics catch phrase. And Tony Stark telling a still under aged Peter Parker that he was about to introduce him to the world as the newest Avenger when Parker declined.

[cambridgeguy]

18 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

If they are going to stick with the Avengers don’t earn an income thing, I could see Scott feeling the need to leverage his fame to make money.  

Heroes and money is always an odd mix - this is why the DC heroes have an advantage with secret identities and regular jobs (plus Batman).  I can see many of the MCU heroes preferring to retain the independence to do what they want when they want, which is a lot harder if you're getting cash from someone who isn't one of your own like Tony.  They're certainly selective about when they act - aside from Spidey most of them aren't running around fighting crime or anything like that.  If Pepper isn't going to support them then they need to find a new benefactor.  Hank's tech could solve many, many problems and earn him a tidy profit, but he might be reluctant to spread it around.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 7/25/2022 at 1:59 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

I'd think Toby or Pepper would have also done Suvivors Benefits for the families of the blipped Avengers...more Pepper than Tony 

After No Way Home my assumption is that Pepper has completely checked out of the super hero world. Since it probably would have taken her maybe a 5 minute phone call to get Peter into MIT with a full ride scholarship. And it would have maybe taken maybe 20 to set Peter and Happy up in a secure safehouse so Peter didn't have to hide out in Happy's apartment. But she probably turned Stark industries into a lifestyle brand. Which would unfortunate since if she started her own version of Goop her first name starts with a P. 

[festivus]

Poop Potts. 

She'll make a killing there what with the 4 billion people that returned to the planet all at once.

[Perfect Xero]

Maybe Pepper got replaced with a Skrull

[Cobalt Stargazer]

10 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Hank's tech could solve many, many problems and earn him a tidy profit, but he might be reluctant to spread it around.

If What If? is anything to go by, I would be careful with that.

[Raja]

Just considering what was going on with Pym and his corporation in Ant-Man I would suspect Damage Control to be all in his way.

[arc]

On 7/27/2022 at 5:13 PM, Luckylyn said:

It really bothered me that it was established that the Avengers weren’t provided for financially, and Sam was basically on his own after the blip.  There should be some sort of salary like people in the military, firefighters, and police get.  

Esp for Sam, who literally started the show doing a rescue mission for the US military, so either he should be part of the armed forces somehow or at least a contractor. But apparently he just did that job for free. (Who pays for the fuel for the jetpack then?????)

And why is he not pursuing some name/image/likeness (NIL) endorsement deals if money is tight?

I've appreciated that the MCU has mostly ditched secret identities, which have just gotten less plausible these days, but they haven't thought through all the ramifications.

[cambridgeguy]

18 minutes ago, arc said:

And why is he not pursuing some name/image/likeness (NIL) endorsement deals if money is tight?

Can you imagine the in-universe headlines if he did that?  Greedy prick brings shame to the Captain America name by cutting endorsement deal, etc.  Or if it was when he was still the Falcon, talking heads would still blow a gasket about a hero doing something like that. 

And no, this isn't supposed to be an invitation to counter with how Steve's the most selfish person in the galaxy - the public doesn't know about that.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

6 hours ago, arc said:

Esp for Sam, who literally started the show doing a rescue mission for the US military, so either he should be part of the armed forces somehow or at least a contractor. But apparently he just did that job for free. (Who pays for the fuel for the jetpack then?????)

I was under the impression that since Sam was still in touch with Rhodey, he was a contractor of sorts. Rhodes might be retired by now, depending on how long it took him to recover from what happened in Civil War, but he was wearing a dress uniform in the scene where Sam donates the shield to that museum, before it was handed off to John Walker. Of course, that just raises the question of, if Sam and Rhodey were still cool with each other and hanging out on even a part-time basis, why wasn't Sam being provided for as part of the team? Tony would not have left Rhodes swinging in the event of his death, since even though I'm sure there's a military pension involved, Stark helped design the apparatus he was using in the PT scene near the end of the movie. It's all so convoluted.

[tv echo]

The Russo Brothers Break Down Scenes from Their Movies | Vanity Fair
Vanity Fair   Jul 28, 2022

Quote

00:00 Intro
00:21 Avengers: Endgame
03:49 Avengers: Infinity War
07:36 Captain America: Civil War
12:10 Arrested Development
16:11 Community
18:56 The Gray Man

Includes the following tidbits:
-- The Russos responded to criticism about the desaturated color palette in Captain America: Civil War by saying that this movie was "brutalist in tone" and "meant to be devoid of color," because all these characters were "slipping into this morally gray area."
-- Jon Favreau originally opposed killing Tony Stark/Iron Man in Avengers: Endgame.

Wyatt Russell on Lodge 49 and working with Thunderbolts director
Emma-Jane Betts    Updated: Jul 25, 2022
https://www.thedigitalfix.com/lodge-49/wyatt-russell-interview 

Quote

Speaking about your past in the MCU, I read a few weeks ago that you still hadn’t received the call from Marvel for Thunderbolts. Has that changed yet?
No, I’m still waiting. I know they’re doing it. I know that they’re planning it. I gotta imagine that there’s something in there for me. But yeah, until you get that true actual prompt, like, ‘Okay, this is your start date. And this is when you’re coming, and this is when you rent your house, and this is when logistically you need to start setting up to do these things.’ That’s when I shift my mindset to going to do that, you know? Other than that, before you get that call, things can change on a dime; you never know.

Edited July 29, 2022 by tv echo

[Guest]

10 hours ago, arc said:

Esp for Sam, who literally started the show doing a rescue mission for the US military, so either he should be part of the armed forces somehow or at least a contractor. But apparently he just did that job for free. (Who pays for the fuel for the jetpack then?????)

They addressed this is the show. When asked about income he did say that he had military contracts. He pointed out that it was proof of earnings but the loan officer was focused on the 5 years without an income. I think it was a mistake for the writers to say they weren’t paid as Avengers but the show wasn’t making the point that Sam couldn’t get a loan because he had no income but that the barriers were higher because of his race. 

On 7/27/2022 at 5:13 PM, Luckylyn said:

It really bothered me that it was established that the Avengers weren’t provided for financially, and Sam was basically on his own after the blip.  There should be some sort of salary like people in the military, firefighters, and police get.

That doesn’t bother me that much. I think the show was trying to say that the Avengers were provided by for Tony and others but didn’t receive a technical paycheck. Sort of how some Olympic level athletes have sponsorships to pay all their expenses but aren’t employees. Sam was also deflecting in that scene and trying to focus it on needing goodwill from the bank so it’s muddled. 

The other reason why it doesn’t bother me much is because Sam was on the run before the blip. Any money he did get as an Avenger would have been long gone or inaccessible to him. 

The money thing bothers me much more in No Way Home. 

[Bruinsfan]

I'm thinking Pepper may have been forced to cut all ties with Peter/Spider-Man after Jameson's big reveal at the end of Far From Home. Happy was all mixed up in that mess equipping a private individual with orbital weapons technology that might have placed him on the Top 20 list of military powers in the world.

Plus, there might be a bit of unconscious resentment that guilt/grief over Peter was probably the top motivating factor that got Tony involved in the mission that killed him.

[Spartan Girl]

30 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

I'm thinking Pepper may have been forced to cut all ties with Peter/Spider-Man after Jameson's big reveal at the end of Far From Home. Happy was all mixed up in that mess equipping a private individual with orbital weapons technology that might have placed him on the Top 20 list of military powers in the world.

Plus, there might be a bit of unconscious resentment that guilt/grief over Peter was probably the top motivating factor that got Tony involved in the mission that killed him.

I refuse to believe that she would just leave Happy high and dry just to save herself, even though she's got Morgan to think about too. And I don't think she'd blame Peter even subconsciously.

It's just crappy writing. Either that or a she's a Skrull.

[arc]

9 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Can you imagine the in-universe headlines if he did that?  Greedy prick brings shame to the Captain America name by cutting endorsement deal, etc. 

One of Steve's first appearances in public was to sell war bonds or something! Admittedly that was an ad for his employer at the time rather than a contract gig, and also it was war, and also (advertising wise) a much more innocent time. And then post-thawing, the public got used to Steve doing super mundane stuff like those educational videos seen in Homecoming. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, arc said:

One of Steve's first appearances in public was to sell war bonds or something! Admittedly that was an ad for his employer at the time rather than a contract gig, and also it was war, and also (advertising wise) a much more innocent time. And then post-thawing, the public got used to Steve doing super mundane stuff like those educational videos seen in Homecoming. 

Sam would be under much greater scrutiny than Steve ever would for doing the exact same thing. 

[Raja]

The world needs heroes. The Avengers need your help.

[tv echo]

(source)

With Next Phases Set, Marvel Homes in on Directors
BY BORYS KIT   JULY 27, 2022
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/with-next-phases-set-marvel-hones-in-on-directors-1235187070/ 

Quote

The company [Marvel Studios], which is in prep to begin shooting Blade in Atlanta in October and will release Black Panther: Wakanda Forever in November, is now setting up the generals to implement the plans across its giant chessboard. Destin Daniel Cretton, who helmed Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings for the studio, has been enlisted to helm Avengers: The Kang Dynasty, one of two Avengers movies that will help close out Phase 6 in 2025. 

Marvel also confirmed that Bassam Tariq is directing Blade, scheduled for a Nov. 3, 2023, release; Julius Onah is set for Captain America: New World Order, which will star Anthony Mackie as Captain America and open May 3, 2024; and Jake Schreier (Paper Towns) is directing villain team-up Thunderbolts, which will close out Phase 5 with a July 26, 2024, release. The studio is actively hunting for a filmmaker for Fantastic Four, which in April lost Spider-Man helmer Jon Watts and kicks off Phase 6 on Nov. 8, 2024. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Jennifer Aniston And 12 Other Celebs Who Shaded The MCU's "Artistic Value," And 13 More Who Fought Back
by Kristen Harris   July 30, 2022
https://www.buzzfeed.com/kristenharris1/marvel-criticized-cinema 

13 actors and directors who criticized Marvel movies:
1. Jennifer Aniston said that "big Marvel movies" are "diminishing" the quality of movies.
2. Martin Scorsese tried to watch Marvel movies, but he can't see them because "that’s not cinema."
3. However, while accepting his Prix Lumière, Francis Ford Coppola said, "Martin was kind when he said it’s not cinema. He didn’t say it’s despicable, which I just say it is."
4. Ethan Hawke — who played Arthur Harrow in Marvel's Moon Knight — supported both directors' criticisms of the MCU and appreciates "the elder statesmen of the [film] community reminding people not to set the bar too low."
5. Jodie Foster also shares the sentiment that "going to the movies has become like a theme park" because of franchises like Marvel.
6. Emily Blunt — who was previously forced to turn down the role of Black Widow due to contractual obligations — called the superhero genre "exhausted."
7. When it comes to starring in a Marvel movie, Jason Statham believes that "any guy can do it" — and he has "no ambition" of being that guy. He also thinks the franchise is too reliant on green screens, stunt doubles, and big budgets.
8. Sally Field, who played Aunt May, thought it was "really hard to find a three-dimensional character in [The Amazing Spider-Man]."
9. Simon Pegg said that comic book movies are "a kind of dumbing down" because they're "taking our focus away from real-world issues" and that the result of "consuming very childish things — comic books, superheroes" is an "infantilized" audience."
10. Rose McGowan said that superhero movies are "killing film," and she doesn't "give a f**k if there's a female superhero."
11. Sean Penn disparaged MCU movies as "just razzle-dazzle, Cirque de Soleil movies."
12. Expressing his distaste for Marvel roles, True Detective actor, Stephen Dorff, said he felt "embarrassed" for Scarlett Johansson because she starred in Black Widow.
13. And finally, I, Daniel Blake director, Ken Loach, views Marvel movies as a "market exercise" that have "nothing to do with the art of cinema."

13 actors and directors who defended the artistic value of Marvel movies:
14. Elizabeth Olsen feels frustrated when other people make Marvel movies "seem like a lesser type of art."
15. Tom Holland used his experience in movies both in the MCU and apart from it to describe why he thinks of them as "real art."
16. Samuel L. Jackson reminded critics that "all movies are valid."
17. Likewise, Natalie Portman said that "there's room for all types of cinema" and "there’s not one way to make art."
18. Chris Evans believes that the "caliber of talent" the MCU attracts is "a testament to those movies."
19. Paul Rudd thinks Marvel counts as cinema, but he's "not insulted by anybody saying anything."
20. Nicolas Cage has personal connections to both sides of the argument. He starred in Marvel's Ghost Rider (2007), and he's also the nephew of MCU critic, Francis Ford Coppola. However, he doesn't "understand the conflict" or "agree with [the critics] on that perception or opinion."
21. Citing the popular film genres of the past, Guardians of the Galaxy director James Gunn said that "superheroes are simply today’s gangsters/cowboys/outer space adventurers."
22. Similarly, Kevin Feige told the Guardian, "The western had a good 40-year run and still pops up occasionally, so as long as they're done well, I think they'll be around for a long time."
23. Karen Gillan thinks it's "a little unfair to strip [Marvel filmmakers] of the title of artist" because "the filmmakers [she's] worked with on these films are real artists, and they express themselves through the movies."
24. At the Wall Street Journal's Tech Live, former Disney CEO and current chairperson Bob Iger asked, "When Francis [Ford Coppola] uses the words, 'those films are despicable,' to whom is he talking?" then listed several prominent Marvel executives, directors, and stars.
25. Robert Downey Jr. said he appreciates the criticism because "we need all of the perspectives so we can come to center and move on," but saying Marvel isn't cinema makes "no sense" to him.
26. And finally, Clerks director Kevin Smith told Forbes, "You're asking a guy who made Goodfellas what he thinks about Spider-Man, what do you think you're going to get? He's a very serious filmmaker, and he's a man who's of a certain age and stuck in his ways. You should not be surprised that's his response...But it doesn't take away from your enjoyment of the thing."

Edited August 1, 2022 by tv echo

[benteen]

It's hilarious when toxic fanboy Simon Pegg criticizes anything. Hypocritical as well when, as co-writer of the last Star Trek movie, he continued the trend of making them strictly action films instead of focusing on "real world issues" that Star Trek is known for and he claims to care about. But hey, I guess everyone needs a paycheck...

Edited August 2, 2022 by benteen

[cambridgeguy]

I wonder if that Jason Statham quote came before or after he starred in The Meg and the F&F movies.

[Bookworm 1979]

I've noticed that a lot of the celebrities who are bashing Marvel have not been in any Marvel movies.  They're probably just jealous.  The "serious actors" make it sound like they're curing cancer, and they're not.  They're playing pretend, just like the actors in Marvel movies are.  Maybe their movies are focusing on more serious subjects, but they're still playing pretend.

Also wanted to add: When I go to the movies, I want to escape the real world for a while.  If I want to watch something serious that focuses on "real world issues", I'll watch the news.

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

. Jennifer Aniston said that "big Marvel movies" are "diminishing" the quality of movies

Jennifer Aniston has also of course been the female lead in two Happy Madison movies. And her third movie with Adam Sandler comes out later this year. And I like a lot of Adam Sandler movies, but I am not sure she is really in a position to talk about movies that are diminishing the quality of anything.