The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Morrigan2575]

7 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

I loved Agent Carter, and AoS was okay, but I'm ready to burn the entire TV arm down if it means we get to start fresh with the Inhuman royal family in the MCU.

Same. But after MCU screwed up both Eternals and Inhumans (IMO) I'm not sure it's worth it.

[swanpride]

Inhumans? There is no show with this name...and I am pretty sure that nobody would complain if Marvel takes that attitude. 

Otherwise, my preference would be to leave Agent Carter and AoS in Canon (and finally create a proper conclusion to the former), to do a soft reboot for the Netflix shows (if for no other reason than I am really loving the notion of Ward and Danny messing around in Asia), and quietly discard the rest (and I say that as someone who really enjoyed Cloak and Dagger). 

Btw, it's not just people watching AoS because of the MCU, there are a lot of people who ended up discovering the MCU due to AoS. 

[Bruinsfan]

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

Inhumans? There is no show with this name...and I am pretty sure that nobody would complain if Marvel takes that attitude.

Yeah, I'm more than fine with the MCU never speaking of the Inhumans again. Even Al Ewing's writing wasn't able to make me care about the characters, and he got me to root for Outlaw!

[Kel Varnsen]

12 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

I loved Agent Carter, and AoS was okay, but I'm ready to burn the entire TV arm down if it means we get to start fresh with the Inhuman royal family in the MCU.

I think I am ok with forgetting that just about anything in the old TV side ever happened. Because while I am not sure that the bad stuff outweighed the good stuff, the bad stuff plus the meh stuff totally outweighed the good. 

I guess there is some good casting you could maybe reuse, like Daredevil, Kingpin, Karen Page or Punisher, but even those I would say just bring in Judy Dench in Bond movies style with zero reference to their previous stories. Other than that just about everything else I saw is either forgettable (The Defenders) or was decent but the story has been told and it is time to move on to something else (like Jessica Jones or th good parts of AoS).

[Morrigan2575]

19 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Daredevil, Kingpin, Karen Page or Punisher

Yeah, for me those are the ones to save and bring into the MCU.

[tv echo]

Q: "Are you ever going to join the Marvel Cinematic Universe?"
Keanu Reeves: "Isn't it bigger than a universe? It's almost like a multiverse. It's a Marvel-verse. (Laughs) You know, it would be an honor. There's some really amazing directors and visionaries and, you know, they're doing something no one's ever really done, especially in that sense, in terms of the scale, the ambition, the production. So it would be cool to be a part of that."

Keanu Reeves Reacts to Rumors On Joining the Marvel Universe | Explain This | Esquire
Esquire   Nov 22, 2021

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by tv echo

[Raja]

2 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Yeah, I'm more than fine with the MCU never speaking of the Inhumans again. Even Al Ewing's writing wasn't able to make me care about the characters, and he got me to root for Outlaw!

The problem is that Ms. Marvel being a Muslim woman is the number 1 prospect and has a Disney+ series on the way. Reconning her in anyway be it making her a conventional mutant with no Kree involvement can anger fans as much as the Inhuman royals did. If folks had problems with the AoS In(Nu) humans Daisy and Yo-yo I never heard of it. Just the early series complaints about Skye.

[Dandesun]

As much as I wish that Kamala were a mutant, she's canonically not. She got stuck in the Terrigen cocoon and came out empowered with embiggen and such. I think I rather WOULD resent them changing that now but I also don't know exactly how they'll explain what an Inhuman is to those who aren't comic readers and didn't watch Agents of Shield. 

Maybe they'll just refer to her as 'enhanced' the way Wanda and Pietro were. If they ever decide to explain the Inhumans they can do that but there remains the question of what her powers are even going to be at this point, too.

[calliope1975]

The Inhumans site can be relegated President Loki's alt verse. It's not too late to give me Gemma Arterton as Medusa.

[SeanC]

6 hours ago, Raja said:

Reconning her in anyway be it making her a conventional mutant with no Kree involvement can anger fans as much as the Inhuman royals did.

Comics readers are such a tiny percentage of the audience, what they think isn't really that important (and I say that as one of them).  

Spoiler

They've already seemingly changed Kamala's powerset.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

15 hours ago, Raja said:

The problem is that Ms. Marvel being a Muslim woman is the number 1 prospect and has a Disney+ series on the way. Reconning her in anyway be it making her a conventional mutant with no Kree involvement can anger fans as much as the Inhuman royals did. If folks had problems with the AoS In(Nu) humans Daisy and Yo-yo I never heard of it. Just the early series complaints about Skye.

Would it really anger fans though? Ms. Marvel has only been around as a character for about 8 years. By comparison Hulk, Wanda, Quicksilver, Ultron and Hawkeye have all been around since the 60's and have all had their origins changed for the movies, and I don't remember to much anger from fans about those changes.

[Raja]

21 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Would it really anger fans though? Ms. Marvel has only been around as a character for about 8 years. By comparison Hulk, Wanda, Quicksilver, Ultron and Hawkeye have all been around since the 60's and have all had their origins changed for the movies, and I don't remember to much anger from fans about those changes.

And in those cases over the years the comics writers have rebooted characters, Ms Marvel doesn't share that advantage.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Raja

[FnkyChkn34]

On 11/22/2021 at 8:22 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

Same. But after MCU screwed up both Eternals and Inhumans (IMO) I'm not sure it's worth it.

I don't have any clue who the Inhumans are, but I really like Eternals.  I'm not a comic book reader and had absolutely no background, so I just watched the movie for what it was.

[Captain Carrot]

8 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Would it really anger fans though? Ms. Marvel has only been around as a character for about 8 years. By comparison Hulk, Wanda, Quicksilver, Ultron and Hawkeye have all been around since the 60's and have all had their origins changed for the movies, and I don't remember to much anger from fans about those changes.

I could be wrong, but I don't think people will care how she gets her powers as long as they don't do anything like whitewashing her character.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

I could be wrong, but I don't think people will care how she gets her powers as long as they don't do anything like whitewashing her character.

That’s what I’m thinking. I’ve seen comic fans speculating that how she gets her powers is the most likely thing for them to change and no one seems to be upset over it. 

[swanpride]

Let's put it that way: I would love a reference to the terrigen accident causing people develop powers, and I will be very sad when they come up with an alternative reason for Kamala's power BUT it is not a deal breaker for me. As long as they don't make her a mutant. I still think that the X-men are better off in their own branch of reality. 

[Raja]

3 hours ago, swanpride said:

Let's put it that way: I would love a reference to the terrigen accident causing people develop powers, and I will be very sad when they come up with an alternative reason for Kamala's power BUT it is not a deal breaker for me. As long as they don't make her a mutant. I still think that the X-men are better off in their own branch of reality. 

If I am remembering the Inhumans correctly they did not cocoon Inhumans on the moon like the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. did on earth.  And on the tease trailer it did look like some sort of energy wave washed over Ms Marvel

[tv echo]

MCU: New Data Reveals Just How Important Marvel Is to Disney+
By Aeron Mer Eclarinal   November 24, 2021
https://thedirect.com/article/mcu-marvel-disney-plus-audience-data 

Quote

Now, new data has arrived that shows a deeper look at how the MCU shows affect Disney+'s subscriber count.
*  *  *
Whip Media, via Variety , shared new data on how Hawkeye attracts meaningful viewership on Disney+ and its effect on the streaming service's subscribers.

The research group first conducted a survey of US TV Time app users aged 13+ on November 19 and 20, 2021. The result showed that 66% of the respondents will "definitely" watch the Jeremy Renner and Hailee Steinfeld-led series, while 10% said that they won't see it.
*  *  *
The MCU series' upward trajectory on the House of Mouse's streaming platform is apparent since the survey also showed that most of the respondents ended up finishing the series under Marvel's banner. WandaVision tops the list with 72.4%, with Loki and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier in second (66.7%) and third (64.7%) places respectively.

*  *  *
Perhaps most notably, the study also unveiled that the MCU's small screen slate is at least a "major reason" why 63.5% of respondents subscribe to Disney+.

Despite the data above, a good chunk (39.5%) of Whip Media's respondents also acknowledged the fact that they subscribe to Disney+ not just for Marvel Studios' content, but for other Disney-related projects as well.

*  *  *
New data suggests that Disney+ subscribers are dedicated to finishing the MCU series due to the franchise's interconnected nature. This is as such due to the fact that hardcore fans are aware of the connecting storylines that will eventually branch out not just to other shows, but also to the movie side of things.

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by tv echo

[swanpride]

Well, and the shows have so far been fun, right? 

[Bruinsfan]

For the most part.

[tv echo]

The new Marvel intro (used for Hawkeye) now includes Shang-Chi and Yelena Belova (who first appeared in the Marvel intro for Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings)...

Hawkeye | Marvel Logo Intro | Season 1
Th3 Randoms    Nov 24, 2021

Screenshot Pics:

(pics source)

Edited November 28, 2021 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Marvel Celebrates Chris Evans' Captain America With New Shield Timeline
By Richard Nebens    November 27, 2021
https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-chris-evans-captain-america-shield-timeline 

Quote

The official Marvel UK Instagram account shared a nine-image thread showing where the Captain America shield has been throughout its time in the MCU.
*  *  *

*  *  *

*  *  *

*  *  *

*  *  *

*  *  *

*  *  *

*  *  *

*  *  *

Edited November 28, 2021 by tv echo

[Kel Varnsen]

Annoying that they still don't explain if the shield in Falcon and the Winter Soldier is the same one that Cap used against Thanos, but fixed, or a brand new one that Steve picked up in the past.

[tv echo]

FYI...

Fan Expo New Orleans, January 7-9, 2022
https://fanexpohq.com/fanexponeworleans/ 

Edited December 3, 2021 by tv echo

[Guest]

The headline is slightly misleading since he only confirmed that they wouldn’t recast the role and not that he is actually going to be in the MCU anytime soon but it’s still interesting for the Netflix canon debate.

 

[MikeT]

7 hours ago, Dani said:

The headline is slightly misleading since he only confirmed that they wouldn’t recast the role and not that he is actually going to be in the MCU anytime soon but it’s still interesting for the Netflix canon debate.

 

Kevin Feige just confirmed, Charlie Cox will be in the MCU movies if they reboot the daredevil character. 

Source: https://www.thestreambible.com/news/charlie-cox-returning-as-daredevil/

[Ailianna]

If they reboot the character. Not when.

[Jediknight]

30 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

If they reboot the character. Not when.

I don't think he's dropping that news if Cox isn't already in the MCU.  He's gotta be showing up in No Way Home or Hawkeye.

[tv echo]

Kevin Feige On Bringing Netflix Marvel Characters To The MCU
BY GRANT HERMANNS    DECEMBER 6, 2021
https://screenrant.com/marvel-netflix-shows-characters-mcu-future-kevin-feige/ 

Quote

While speaking exclusively with Screen Rant to discuss Spider-Man: No Way Home, Feige opened up about the possibility of bringing Netflix's Marvel characters to the main MCU. Though Feige wouldn't confirm any proper plans, he did tease that audiences could see these heroes on screen again in the near future and explained his process for bringing new and returning characters into the franchise. See what Feige said below:

"I always say that whenever a character comes back into the Marvel sandbox, it becomes another tool in the storytelling ability of the MCU. As I said before, the good news is, all will be revealed when people actually finally watch."

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by tv echo

[AimingforYoko]

Coy, thy name is Feige.

[Dandesun]

I hope it happens. I fucking loved Charlie Cox' Daredevil/Matt Murdock and I hope Foggy comes too because... it's just what I want. And frankly, I'd love to see him interact with Jen being actual literal kick ass lawyers.

[Guest]

Destin Daniel Cretton Inks Overall Deal With Marvel Studios & Hulu’s Onyx Collective; Set For Disney+ MCU Series & ‘Shang-Chi’ Sequel

[tv echo]

Edited December 6, 2021 by tv echo

[Danny Franks]

On 12/6/2021 at 8:27 PM, Dandesun said:

I hope it happens. I fucking loved Charlie Cox' Daredevil/Matt Murdock and I hope Foggy comes too because... it's just what I want. And frankly, I'd love to see him interact with Jen being actual literal kick ass lawyers.

Charlie Cox and Tatiana Maslany bantering about legal matters? Yes please.

The MCU really is in limbo for me at the moment, because none of the current or imminent releases really interest me all that much. I'm even very ambivalent about Spider-Man because the marketing of this third movie seems driven almost completely by nostalgia for previous versions that just don't hold up that well.

But if Daredevil does appear, that would be the only cameo/guest appearance that excites me at all.

[tv echo]

From last night (on NBC)...

2021 People's Choice Awards: See the full list of winners
By Lauren Huff and Oliver Gettell    December 07, 2021
https://ew.com/awards/peoples-choice-awards-2021-winners-list/ 

Quote

The Marvel Cinematic Universe also had a good night, claiming awards for Scarlett Johansson and Black Widow, Simu Liu and Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, and Tom Hiddleston and Loki.
*  *  *
The Movie of 2021
WINNER: Black Widow
Coming 2 America
F9: The Fast Saga
Dune
No Time to Die
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
The Tomorrow War
Venom: Let Their Be Carnage
*  *  *
The Action Movie of 2021
Black Widow
F9: The Fast Saga
Godzilla vs. Kong
No Time to Die
WINNER: Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
The Suicide Squad
The Tomorrow War
Venom: Let There Be Carnage
*  *  *
The Female Movie Star of 2021
Awkwafina (Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings)
Charlize Theron (F9: The Fast Saga)
Florence Pugh (Black Widow)
Jennifer Hudson (Respect)
Leslie Jones (Coming 2 America)
Margot Robbie (The Suicide Squad)
Salma Hayek (Hitman's Wife's Bodyguard)
WINNER: Scarlett Johansson (Black Widow)
*  *  *
The Action Movie Star of 2021
Charlize Theron (F9: The Fast Saga)
Chris Pratt (The Tomorrow War)
Daniel Craig (No Time to Die)
Florence Pugh (Black Widow)
John Cena (F9: The Fast Saga)
Scarlett Johansson (Black Widow)
WINNER: Simu Liu (Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings)
Vin Diesel (F9: The Fast Saga)
*  *  *
The Show of 2021
Cobra Kai
Grey's Anatomy
Law & Order: Special Victims Unit
WINNER: Loki
Saturday Night Live 
The Bachelor
This Is Us
WandaVision
*  *  *
The Male TV Star of 2021
Anthony Mackie (The Falcon and the Winter Soldier)
Chase Stokes (Outer Banks)
Dwayne Johnson (Young Rock)
Jason Sudeikis (Ted Lasso)
Kenan Thompson (Saturday Night Live)
Norman Reedus (The Walking Dead)
Sterling K. Brown (This Is Us)
WINNER: Tom Hiddleston (Loki)

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Feige talked about several MCU movies in this interview...

Kevin Feige on Spider-Man: No Way Home & Bringing the Multiverse to the MCU
December 7, 2021    Collider Interviews

Quote

With director Jon Watts' Spider-Man: No Way Home getting ready to break pandemic box office records when it opens in theaters December 17th, I recently got to speak with Kevin Feige about the upcoming Sony/Marvel sequel. During the brief but informative interview, he talked about how and why the multiverse has to be used carefully, if Spider-Man: No Way Home and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness will dramatically reshape the MCU, why making any movie is a challenge, how making Captain America: Civil War reshaped their ambition for future movies, when they decided to bring Venom into the MCU, and more. In addition, I tried to get an update on a Secret Wars movie without success.

 

[MikeT]

On 12/7/2021 at 3:28 AM, tv echo said:

This is FUN 😄

[tv echo]

MCU: New Data Reveals How WandaVision, Eternals & More Projects Ranked In 2021 Popularity
By Russ Milheim    December 8, 2021
https://thedirect.com/article/mcu-wandavision-eternals-popularity 

Quote

Google Trends released lists of the top trending topics of 2021, which included both movies and television series. Google compiled these lists based on search terms that had the highest spike this year as compared to 2020.

Marvel Studios led the pack when it came to the movies, as Black Widow ranked as the number-one top-trending movie this year, followed closely behind by Eternals as the second-most-popular movie and Shang-Chi as the sixth-most-popular film. 

According to Google, the Top 10 list of highest-trending movies in 2021 in the United States is as follows:

1. Black Widow
2. Eternals
3. Halloween Kills
4. Mortal Kombat
5. Dune
6. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
7. Godzilla vs. Kong
8. The Suicide Squad
9. Space Jam
10. In the Heights

On the television side, two MCU series earned their spot on the Top 10 highest-trending show list in the United States: WandaVision (3rd-most-popular) and Loki (9th-most-popular):

1. Squid Game
2. Bridgerton
3. WandaVision
4. Ginny and Georgia
5. Cobra Kai
6. Firefly Lane
7. Manifest
8. Mare of Easttown
9. Loki
10. Midnight Mass

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by tv echo

[tv echo]

TH recently clarified his deal with Marvel and Sony...

Tom Holland on ‘Spider-Man: No Way Home’ and Planning the Future He Wants
BY BRIAN DAVIDS     DECEMBER 10, 2021 
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/tom-holland-spider-man-no-way-home-1235060750/ 

Quote

As part of the reported deal for this film, you’re also expected to appear in an upcoming Marvel Studios movie that’s independent of Sony. Without specifying, do you already know which MCU film you’re going to pop up in as Spider-Man?
Yeah, that’s not accurate at all. The new deal that was struck up was this understanding between the two studios that should Marvel want me to appear in one of their movies, then it would be an open conversation. I don’t think it’s as black and white as, “I have a three-picture deal with Marvel and a three-picture deal with Sony.” It’s just this open conversation and open dialogue between Mr. [Bob] Iger [Walt Disney Co. executive chairman] and Mr. [Tom] Rothman [chairman of Sony Pictures Motion Picture Group].

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Includes comments from MCU composers Laura Karpman (What If) and Pinar Toprak (Captain Marvel)...

#MeToo Missed Us: Female Composers Speak Out
BY REBECCA KEEGAN    DECEMBER 10, 2021
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/music-news/female-composers-metoo-missed-us-1235058603/ 

Quote

“I’ve been told, ‘Your music is not masculine enough,’ ” says Laura Karpman, who has composed the music for HBO’s Lovecraft Country, the Disney+ series What If? and Fox Searchlight’s Step. “What are you supposed to say to that? ‘Oh my God, did I use a flute?’ When you get old enough and have enough of a career, you can challenge them or choose to work elsewhere. But the younger people just have to smile.” Ultimately, Karpman was fired from that show — and then ended up using the “not masculine enough” music in a first-person shooter video game.
*  *  *
Over the years, women have tried to push the doors open, with some success. In 2016, Karpman, who co-founded the Alliance for Women Composers, became the first female governor of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences’ music branch, which represents both composers and songwriters. Turkish-born composer Pinar Toprak became the first woman to score a Marvel film with Captain Marvel in 2019, and Icelandic composer Hildur Gudnadóttir became just the third woman to win the Oscar for original score, for 2019’s Joker.
*  *  *
As in many freelance-based careers, securing work in composing is based on relationships. For female composers, building those relationships can require maneuvering through some complicated spaces. “You’re in studios, often in the home,” Karpman says. “It’s very hard to separate the personal from the professional. Lines get crossed. It’s a navigation even if you’re not dealing with harassment.” Absent a union or a traditional employer, “we have no workplace rules and no organized way to create codes of conduct,” she says. “It’s a flawed ecosystem.”
*  *  *
Personality type plays a complicated role in composing, where defending your creative choices and presenting them with a sense of showmanship is a key part of the job. “They have to come across very confident,” says Collins. “With some, this creates an attitude of entitlement that ‘I got this job, I can make this happen, I can get away with it.’ ” Where there’s an expectation of a certain grandiosity from male composers, female composers can be penalized for displaying the same passion, some say. Karpman heard from her agent that she was being “too emotional” when explaining her musical choices to one TV show’s producers. “You’re just trying to defend a cue like a guy does,” she says.
*  *  *
Karpman, who has spent decades advocating just to get women in the door as composers, says she is now looking more at the culture they face when they get there. “For me, that’s the next horizon of advocacy,” Karpman says. “It’s got to open the floodgates, not be a trickle through a rusty old pipe.”

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by tv echo

[tv echo]

FYI...

Kevin Feige and Amy Pascal on the Future of ‘Spider-Man’ and the M.C.U.
By Brooks Barnes   December 17, 2021
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/movies/kevin-feige-amy-pascal-spider-man-no-way-home.html 

Quote

Let’s start with an easy one. Kevin, please lay out your future Marvel Cinematic Universe road map for Spider-Man. I want details.
FEIGE What?

What’s the next M.C.U. crossover movie? “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness,” coming in May? Maybe that “Fantastic Four” reboot? Don’t say “I don’t know” because I know you know.
FEIGE He’s going to show up sometime. The when and the where, of course, is the fun part — and the part that we don’t talk about.

What about the next stand-alone Spider-Man movie? Amy, you said last month that you and Kevin — Sony and Disney — are going to collaborate on three more, which seemed to catch the studios by surprise.
PASCAL We’re producers, so we always believe everything will work out. I love working with Kevin. We have a great partnership, along with Tom Rothman, who runs Sony and has been instrumental, a great leader with great ideas. I hope it lasts forever.

That sounds like a classic Hollywood walk back.
FEIGE Amy and I and Disney and Sony are talking about — yes, we’re actively beginning to develop where the story heads next, which I only say outright because I don’t want fans to go through any separation trauma like what happened after “Far From Home” [the previous Spider-Man movie, in 2019]. That will not be occurring this time.

Spoiler

PASCAL At the end of the movie we just made, you see Spider-Man make a momentous decision, one that you’ve never seen him make before. It’s a sacrifice. And that gives us a lot to work with for the next film.

*  *  *
Speaking of women, are we ever going to see a woman with superpowers alongside Spider-Man? Isn’t there a story line in the comics where MJ gets to take the Iron Spider armor for a spin?
PASCAL Never say never. [She offers a coy smile.]

FEIGE We have a lot of story lines, Brooks! A lot of story lines. It comes down to these great, great actors. My guess is your question is less about what MJ did in the comics and more about “Zendaya is really great. Can we see more of her?”

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Keanu Reeves Confirms Meeting With Marvel's Kevin Feige
By BRANDON DAVIS - December 20, 2021 
https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/keanu-reeves-marvel-mcu-kevin-feige-character/ 

Quote

Back in 2019, Marvel Studios boss Kevin Feige told ComicBook.com that he and Marvel Studios had met with The Matrix and John Wick star Keanu Reeves. Since then, there has been no known movement coming out of their conversations but fans began tossing out their desired characters to have played by the action star. Now, years later, ComicBook.com got a chance to talk with Reeves ahead of his The Matrix Resurrections and the actor confirmed the talks.

"We haven't yet," Reeves said about finding a Marvel character to play, all while sat beside his Matrix co-star Carrie-Anne Moss who appeared in Marvel's Jessica Jones, Daredevil, Iron Fist, and Defenders series. "We have met, and [Kevin Feige]'s a cool cat. Yeah. But no, we don't have anything, gotta find something."

One can only assume Reeves will inevitably join the Marvel family, sooner rather than later. The actor has made an incredible comeback into the Hollywood spotlight, making the John Wick franchise a household title, revisiting Bill & Ted, and now gearing up to go back to the Matrix. "We talk to him for almost every film we make," Feige told ComicBook.com back in 2019. "We talk to Keanu Reeves about. I don't know when, if, or ever he'll join the MCU, but we very much want to figure out the right way to do it."

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by tv echo

[tv echo]

From Hawekeye to Spider-Man: Far From Home, the MCU Is Blurring the Line Between Hero and Villain
BY ELIANA DOCKTERMAN  DECEMBER 22, 2021
https://time.com/6130198/mcu-after-hawkeye-spider-man/ 

Quote

It looks more and more like the future of the MCU will be full of anti-heroes and sympathetic villains. Here’s how every single MCU live-action film and TV show that premiered in 2021 strove to complicate our notions of good and evil.

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by tv echo

[swanpride]

And that is new how???? They have been blurring the lines for a while now...

[swanpride]

So, I just checked...I am down to 83. 

Small explanation: A few years ago, someone gifted me a book called "Avengers: Lexicon of Superheroes" with “over 225 heroes and villains” (which means that there are 227 in it). That book not only had all the MCU heroes (and the most important villains) in it, it also proofed to be a really good guide into who might turn up in the future of the MCU. There are now only 83 heroes left which didn't make an appearance (or are scheduled to make one) yet. And most of them belong to specific groupings, like the Great Lake Avengers, the Savage Lands, Atlantis aso. There are only a handful "solo heroes" left. 

Marvel starts to run out of C-tier heroes. (outside of the ones they got back from Fox, naturally). 

[Dandesun]

MCU only people, particularly reviewers, are waaaaay behind on that score. And anyway... if they think now is when the MCU has been blurring the lines they really haven't been paying attention.

Sympathetic villains and anti-heroes have existed for ages. Not the movies ever got this right but the reason the Dark Phoenix Saga is such an important story in the X-universe is because it very much dealt with good and evil and lines blurred between them. I mean, it was also about trauma and the ramifications of that, which are also a major part of Magneto's life and Magik's is centered on that.

But, seriously, did they miss the entirety of the Winter Soldier story? Or Natasha's origins and the choices she's made since? Or Tony's origin story? You can make arguments for everyone in the MCU not just the ones who are getting the spotlight now.

[Fool to cry]

43 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

MCU only people, particularly reviewers, are waaaaay behind on that score. And anyway... if they think now is when the MCU has been blurring the lines they really haven't been paying attention.

Sympathetic villains and anti-heroes have existed for ages. Not the movies ever got this right but the reason the Dark Phoenix Saga is such an important story in the X-universe is because it very much dealt with good and evil and lines blurred between them. I mean, it was also about trauma and the ramifications of that, which are also a major part of Magneto's life and Magik's is centered on that.

But, seriously, did they miss the entirety of the Winter Soldier story? Or Natasha's origins and the choices she's made since? Or Tony's origin story? You can make arguments for everyone in the MCU not just the ones who are getting the spotlight now.

The Dark Phoenix Saga is interesting because the original ending was Jean had the Phoenix Force removed by the Shi'ar leaving her powerless. Her death was a last minute change because editor in chief Jim Shooter saw a page before printing where the Dark Phoenix  consumed an alien star causing the deaths of billions of beings and thought she should be punished. Years later they found a way to bring Jean back without having her be responsible for genocide. Writer Roger Stern got an idea from fan later writer Kurt Busiek who came up with the real Jean healing in a cocoon in the bottom of the bay where the space shuttle the X-Men were on crashes while the Phoenix took on her form and memories and that's who later became evil. Adaptations in other media have the real Jean become Dark Phoenix omit the killing a planet part but still keep the death.

[Dandesun]

1 hour ago, Fool to cry said:

The Dark Phoenix Saga is interesting because the original ending was Jean had the Phoenix Force removed by the Shi'ar leaving her powerless. Her death was a last minute change because editor in chief Jim Shooter saw a page before printing where the Dark Phoenix  consumed an alien star causing the deaths of billions of beings and thought she should be punished. Years later they found a way to bring Jean back without having her be responsible for genocide. Writer Roger Stern got an idea from fan later writer Kurt Busiek who came up with the real Jean healing in a cocoon in the bottom of the bay where the space shuttle the X-Men were on crashes while the Phoenix took on her form and memories and that's who later became evil. Adaptations in other media have the real Jean become Dark Phoenix omit the killing a planet part but still keep the death.

I could write a fucking thesis on what they -- and by they I mean ANYONE who has tried to retell this story -- miss about the original. What Claremont wanted at the start, which was to develop a way for his characters to retire and move on with their lives, would have allowed Jean and Scott to retire from X-life and that's what he tried to do with Scott and Madelyne.

And no version of Phoenix is ever going to be honest about the gaslighting and assault on Jean by Wyngarde/Mastermind with Emma's assistance. So... yeah. I mean, Charles has a long history of being a jerk and being problematic in his own right but what Mastermind did and how Jean reacted is the real story they'll never actually tell. Speaking of... Mastermind? Not a sympathetic villain. His two daughters? Also not really BUT they are at least bizarrely entertaining in the dumbest way possible. (The Cerebro podcast about them is so funny...)

ANYWAY... the point is that the X-books are a blooming field of anti-heroes and sympathetic villains. (As well as asshole villains and jerky heroes. Like anything else.) So we'll see what happens there.

And I don't mind having heroes doing questionable things. It's an ugly world out there and there is rarely a perfect answer to anything. They're trying though. They're trying.

[Spartan Girl]

The MCU has always had the theme of blurring the line between good and evil. I’d just argue they’ve gotten sloppier with it lately—at least they did in TFAWS.

[tv echo]

Iron Man Star Jon Favreau Almost Wasn't in the Spider-Man Movies
By CAMERON BONOMOLO - December 19, 2021 
https://comicbook.com/movies/news/no-way-home-jon-favreau-almost-wasnt-in-spider-man-movies-happy-hogan-die-iron-man-3/

Quote

In Iron Man 3, the Extremis-powered Jack Taggart (Ashley Hamilton) self-destructs in a fiery blast, the resulting exothermal detonation severely injuring Happy and rendering him comatose. 

"There was a little difference in the script than the final movie, which was that Happy died," Feige said. "Jon had a note — that is one of the most important notes he gave us at Marvel — which was, 'What if Happy was severely injured but did not die?'"

"He's not lying! It's true, it's true," Favreau said. "They accommodated it, and I'm so happy I've been a part of this and being able to be there with Tom Holland since the beginning. He's such a pleasure to work with, and [Spider-Man director] Jon Watts, who is incredibly talented, it's just fun to continue this relationship [with Marvel Studios]. It is a big part of my life, and these people are friends and also people I work with." 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by tv echo