The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Spartan Girl]

Ugh, again with the stupid Zemo dancing. The hot mess that was Civil War was on TV again this weekend, and it reminded me why I can’t stand the fucker and hate how FATWS went out of its way to try to make him charming. I didn’t but his “apology” to T’Challa about his dad and his anger at the Avengers for overlooking collateral damage was Douchebag Ross levels of hypocrisy, considering how many innocent people were killed by him.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[tv echo]

This article includes a list of all MCU movies' Oscar noms and wins...

‘WandaVision’ Snub? Why You Can’t Expect Marvel Shows To Win Emmys
Paul Tassi    Sep 20, 2021
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2021/09/20/wandavision-snub-why-you-cant-expect-marvel-shows-to-win-emmys/ 

Quote

You really only have to look at the Academy Awards ignoring pretty much the entire MCU for almost anything other than technical prizes for its entire lifespan. Here is every Oscar the MCU has ever even been nominated for. It lost all of these:

• Sound Editing – Iron Man, Black Panther
• Sound Mixing - Black Panther
• Visual Effects – Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Avengers, Iron Man 3, Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, Doctor Strange, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2, Infinity War, Endgame
• Makeup and Hairstyling – Guardians of the Galaxy
• Best Picture – Black Panther

*  *  *
And here is every Oscar an MCU movie has ever won:

• Best Costume Design – Black Panther
• Best Original Score – Black Panther
• Best Production Design – Black Panther

*  *  *
Only rarely do we see high profile sci-fi, superhero or fantasy blockbusters cross into the mainstream with awards. The early days of Game of Thrones cleared a bunch of Emmys. Return of the King took Best Picture. We all remember Heath Ledger’s post-humous Supporting Actor win for Dark Knight. But these occasions are usually few and far between. And the MCU in particular has long been viewed by the Hollywood elite as not good enough to make the cut in favor of more traditional award-“worthy” productions. But sure, in many instances this seems almost criminal. RDJ never getting a nomination for Tony Stark. Endgame not getting a shot at Best Picture, the list goes on.

The point is, don’t expect any of this to change now that Marvel is moving to television in a big way. The Emmys are no less snobby than the Oscars when it comes to this sort of thing, and you’re just not going to see these projects winning many, if any, awards, even if they deserve to. In this case, I think WandaVision was up against some steep competition where it was nominated, even if sure, I would have loved to see at least Hahn win. But Hawkeye? Loki? She-Hulk? Ms. Marvel? Moon Knight? Keep your awards expectations in check.

Marvel Studios Has the Two Highest Grossing Movies of 2021
ANTHONY LUND — September 19, 2021
https://movieweb.com/marvel-studios-2021-highest-grossing-movies/ 

Quote

In the last decade, Marvel Studios have gone from being a cinematic experiment to producing the most bankable and profitable movies in history to a point that you could almost call them... "inevitable." It seems that even a global pandemic cannot change that as with Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings third weekend haul, Marvel now domestically have the two top movies of the year so far, and with Eternals and Spider-Man: No Way Home expected to both aid the revival of the cinema experience in a big way you would not bet against them having all four of their 2021 releases in the top ten.
*  *  *
With the arrival of Black Widow in July this year, Marvel's winning streak picked up where it left off in 2019 with the movie very quickly becoming the biggest movie of a very strange and subdued year for theatrical releases. With Shang-Chi now on target to be the first movie to take over $200 million at the domestic box office this year, despite some fans insisting they wouldn't go see it, their domination of the top two spots is going to remain in place for a little while at least. Although with big movies like Daniel Craig's last Bond outing No Time To Die, Venom 2 and Ghostbusters: Afterlife all arriving in the next couple of months, and more people starting to venture out to cinemas, whether they can keep both top spots by the end of the year is going to be a hard task even for the might of Marvel. You can view the box office data at The Numbers.

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by tv echo

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 9/20/2021 at 9:00 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Ugh, again with the stupid Zemo dancing. The hot mess that was Civil War was on TV again this weekend, and it reminded me why I can’t stand the fucker and hate how FATWS went out of its way to try to make him charming.

I enjoyed Civil War when it came out, and there's still some pretty good stuff there, but subsequent rewatches make it seem like a harbinger of things to come for Steve. The Russos made sure that the blame fell on everyone else* - Tony, Natasha, Wanda, Ross, Zemo - but Endgame!Steve is only different than Civil War!Steve in that he tossed his principles into the trash for Peggy instead of Bucky. Even in Endgame, he stays pretty blameless, since to date he's the only one who has been allowed to fuck up the timeline for the sake of his own happiness. That they've continued on with Phase Four while utterly failing to address the issue is particularly glaring, since haven't we established by now that you're supposed to leave things be?

*insert obligatory "But it was his movie!" here*

[tv echo]

The Walt Disney Company Celebrates Disney+ Day on November 12 to Thank Subscribers with New Content, Fan Experiences, and More
SEPTERMBER 21, 2021
https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/the-walt-disney-company-celebrates-disney-day-on-november-12-to-thank-subscribers-with-new-content-fan-experiences-and-more/ 

Quote

On Friday, November 12, The Walt Disney Company will host Disney+ Day, a global celebration that will come to life across all dimensions of the Company. Subscribers to Disney+ will be treated to new content releases across the service’s iconic brands, Disney, Pixar, Marvel, Star Wars, National Geographic, and Star in international markets, along with a special presentation on Disney+ for fans with sneak peeks into what’s to come. Additionally, the service will continue to engage new audiences around the world, as Disney+ expands into new Asia-Pacific markets on November 12.
*  *  *
Subscribers to the service will be entertained with an inaugural Disney+ Day fan celebration on Disney+, which will include breaking news, first looks, new trailers, exclusive clips, and appearances from Disney+ creators and stars.

Disney CEO Defends Studio Amid Scarlett Johansson’s ‘Black Widow’ Lawsuit: “Our Talent Is Our Most Important Asset”
By Anthony D'Alessandro    September 21, 2021
https://deadline.com/2021/09/disney-ceo-defends-studio-post-black-widow-scarlett-johansson-lawsuit-our-talent-is-our-most-important-asset-1234841531/ 

Quote

Coincidentally, this morning at Goldman Sachs’ 30th annual Communacopia Conference, Disney CEO Bob Chapek was asked a question about the compensation of Hollywood talent in the wake of long-standing distribution models being upended and the advantages the studio has in terms of being a place that talent wants to work in a direct-to-consumer marketplace.
*  *  *
Answered Chapek, “Disney has had a long history of having very symbiotic and cooperative deals with the talent and we will continue to.”

He added, without naming names, “Certainly the world is changing, and the talent deals going forward will have to reflect the fact that the world is changing.

“We’re in a moment of time where films were envisioned under one understanding about what the world would be, because frankly it hadn’t changed much,” he said.

“Remember, those films were made three or four years ago; those deals were cut three or four years ago. Then they get launched in the middle of a global pandemic where that pandemic itself is accelerating a second dynamic, which is this changing consumer behavior. So we’re sort of putting a square peg in a round hole right now where we’ve got a deal conceived under a certain set of conditions, that actually results in a movie that is being released in a completely different set of conditions.”

He added: “So there’s a bit of rest going on right now. Ultimately, we’ll think about that as we do our future talent deals and plan for that and make sure that’s incorporated. But right now we have this sort of middle position, where we’re trying to do right by the talent, I think the talent is trying to do right by us, and we’re just figuring out our way to bridge the gap. Ultimately we believe our talent is our most important asset, and we’ll continue to believe that, and as we always have, we’ll compensate them fairly per the terms of the contract that they agreed to us with.”

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by tv echo

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I enjoyed Civil War when it came out, and there's still some pretty good stuff there, but subsequent rewatches make it seem like a harbinger of things to come for Steve. The Russos made sure that the blame fell on everyone else* - Tony, Natasha, Wanda, Ross, Zemo - but Endgame!Steve is only different than Civil War!Steve in that he tossed his principles into the trash for Peggy instead of Bucky. Even in Endgame, he stays pretty blameless, since to date he's the only one who has been allowed to fuck up the timeline for the sake of his own happiness. That they've continued on with Phase Four while utterly failing to address the issue is particularly glaring, since haven't we established by now that you're supposed to leave things be?

*insert obligatory "But it was his movie!" here*

*sigh* Yup.

I did like that at least Civil War Zemo had called out Steve’s “green flecks” in his eye, whereas FTAWS Zemo is buying into the current narrative of Steve being a perfect saint that can do no wrong despite the collateral damage of with the timeline that everyone else has to deal with.

I wish Civil War had been an actual Captain America movie establishing the Steve, Sharon, Bucky and Sam and possibly Nat team instead of cramming all the Avengers in. 

[shantown]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I wish Civil War had been an actual Captain America movie establishing the Steve, Sharon, Bucky and Sam and possibly Nat team instead of cramming all the Avengers in. 

As a casual MCU fan, I thought the the Steve/Sharon/Bucky/Sam team at the start of Civil War was a great chance to have a smaller team doing exciting espionage type stuff together. I would have liked to see the movie focus on that more, rather than being an Avengers movie without being called such.

ETA: I clicked away long enough to realize a similar smaller team of Steve/Sam/Nat/Wanda(/Bucky? honestly don't remember if he was there) was one of my favorite parts of the Endgame movie too. So maybe I really just wanted a crimefighters on the run movie!

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I enjoyed Civil War when it came out, and there's still some pretty good stuff there, but subsequent rewatches make it seem like a harbinger of things to come for Steve. The Russos made sure that the blame fell on everyone else* - Tony, Natasha, Wanda, Ross, Zemo - but Endgame!Steve is only different than Civil War!Steve in that he tossed his principles into the trash for Peggy instead of Bucky. Even in Endgame, he stays pretty blameless, since to date he's the only one who has been allowed to fuck up the timeline for the sake of his own happiness. That they've continued on with Phase Four while utterly failing to address the issue is particularly glaring, since haven't we established by now that you're supposed to leave things be?

*insert obligatory "But it was his movie!" here*

After rewatching a bunch of marvel movies with my kids since Wandavision came out I think I now cut Civil War a lot more slack. Because to me it is kind of impressive that that took a pretty dumb concept (Civil War), and made a pretty exciting, well paced watchable movie. Especially when you consider that they also had to set up the plotlines for 4 future movies on top of telling their own story. By comparison Age of Ultron took a great concept (Ultron) and ended up making a kind of dumb movie.

[Morrigan2575]

I think my only complaint either Civil was continues to be the use of Shaky Cam during the Widow/Market fight sequence and the first 20-30 minutes where they jumped from place to place. 

Other than that I continue to love Steve, Bucky, T'Challa, Zemo, the introduction is of Holland's Spider-Man, etc.

I don't think I really hated anything about it abd loved the final fight scene between Capt/Iron Man/Winter Soldier. The choreography gets me every time.

[akg]

I loved Peggy and Steve in the First Avenger so, in theory, I liked the idea of them getting together in the end. In practice, especially the way it was ultimately done, I hated it. The Mary Sue posted a pretty good analysis on why it was a bad idea that's getting worse as we get more fallout (or no fallout) last week: So Far, Marvel’s “Phase 4” Is Only Making Captain America’s Avengers: Endgame Ending Worse

Also, I'm not a huge comic reader but I'm just familiar enough to get very attached to the idea of Natasha/Bucky so I will always be annoyed they chose to do such stupid things instead.

Edited September 23, 2021 by akg

[Spartan Girl]

There’s been some discourse about Bucky and Wanda lately, in which Bucky stans claim what Wanda did to Westview was worse than Bucky’s brainwashed Winter Soldier body count because she didn’t have the excuse of being brainwashed. While it’s true she was technically more in control, she was able to reverse the hex when she became aware of the damage she caused. Bucky couldn’t reverse what he did. And it certainly doesn’t matter to him that he was being controlled by HYDRA, he still killed those people and he knows nothing can ever make up for that.

It also sets my teeth on edge when the Bucky stans protest that him killing the Starks is forgivable because Howard was an “abuser.” Woooooow. I mean, Howard could be a womanizing jerk and definitely not Father of the Year, but he was still Steve and Peggy’s friend and didn’t deserve to die. HYDRA didn’t give a crap about his personal life; they wanted him dead because they’re freaking HYDRA.

I hate stans.

[Kel Varnsen]

10 hours ago, akg said:

Also, I'm not a huge comic reader but I'm just familiar enough to get very attached to the idea of Natasha/Bucky so I will always be annoyed they chose to do such stupid things instead.

If they ever wanted to get Natasha with someone the perfect time would have been between Winter Soldier and Civil War. It would also have been the perfect way to bridge the real MCU with the Netflix shows by having her get a lawyer (Matt Murdock) and then maybe having some sort of relationship with him. It would also been a great way to bring back the Marvel one shots.

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

It also sets my teeth on edge when the Bucky stans protest that him killing the Starks is forgivable because Howard was an “abuser.” 

I am not sure I want to go down this road but who did Howard Stark abuse? I mean he seems to be a distant dad who didn't have a lot of time for his family, but lots of parents with difficult jobs do that. And his was a pretty important job. And it is not like work/life balance was even a thing people even considered in the 70's and 80's.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am not sure I want to go down this road but who did Howard Stark abuse? I mean he seems to be a distant dad who didn't have a lot of time for his family, but lots of parents with difficult jobs do that. And his was a pretty important job. And it is not like work/life balance was even a thing people even considered in the 70's and 80's.

I have no earthly idea. Maybe they were referring to all his sleazy womanizing in Agent Carter, but I’m not sure that would qualify as abuse. My point is I get annoyed that they throw out any excuse in the book to defend Bucky. Bucky never let himself off the hook for any of the people he killed. The fact that he was brainwashed doesn’t make them any less dead. 

I do give Steve some credit for owning up to the fact that he kept it a secret to protect himself and not really Tony.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[tv echo]

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm not going to shit on Steve because of what happened in The Falcon and The Winter Soldier. Did the writers know when they penned/made Infinity War/End Game, that there would be a series? I don't think Disney's streaming service was even launched back then. It's only been out a year or so.

I don't recall Sam mentioning a sister in Winter Soldier or Civil War. I'm not going to nit pick why Steve didn't do D, E, F, when he did A, B, C.

And I still maintain he didn't use Sharon. She fucking volunteered to help Steve, Bucky, and Sam. She knew the risks, and knew "they" would go after her and was okay with it.

Do I hate how Endgame, well, ended? Yes. Steve isn't perfect; he's not a saint. I've never thought of him that way. But he is GOOD. 

It's the writers who get my ire, for their wishy washy, flip-flopping and doing what they did.

[Spartan Girl]

53 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It's the writers who get my ire, for their wishy washy, flip-flopping and doing what they did.

On that, we can agree!

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am not sure I want to go down this road but who did Howard Stark abuse? I mean he seems to be a distant dad who didn't have a lot of time for his family, but lots of parents with difficult jobs do that. And his was a pretty important job. And it is not like work/life balance was even a thing people even considered in the 70's and 80's.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it abuse, but I would argue that Howard's idolizing of Steve did damage Tony, no matter how unintentionally. It's not fair to compare the son you actually got to the guy you feel like a failure over, because Rogers' disappearance had him spending time and resources in a search that didn't pan out. So what if Howard was never weird in Steve's presence? He wouldn't have been, because it wasn't until Cap went into the ice that all of the stories about him got blown up to legendary proportions, and Howard's admiration must only have grown in those intervening years right alongside them.
 

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I do give Steve some credit for owning up to the fact that he kept it a secret to protect himself and not really Tony.

Kind of? In the letter Steve sends Tony near the end of the movie, he acknowledges that he hurt him, that he thought not telling him the truth would protect him, but he was really protecting himself. What he doesn't say is that not telling the truth also protected Bucky. The thing here is that Barnes starts the movie being accused of something he didn't do, bombing the UN, and he ends it being accused of something he did do, kill the Starks. Let's say Tony was rational at that point, controlled enough that he doesn't snap and try to kill Bucky. He wants to do the right or at least the correct thing, whatever that is. Where's the line between "I don't care. He killed my mom." and actual justice, because that's the one thing they don't really touch on until TFATWS, and even then the Bucky stans were protesting that Barnes didn't do anything wrong and it was unhealthy for him to pursue some course of amends. Yes, for the thousandth time, he was brainwashed, but would they prefer he was indifferent?

 

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Do I hate how Endgame, well, ended? Yes. Steve isn't perfect; he's not a saint. I've never thought of him that way. But he is GOOD.

Again, kind of? Let's forget Sharon and Tony and Howard being a big weirdo. There's still the timeline issue, which has come into play repeatedly in the new phase. Wanda. Sylvie. The TVA. He Who Remains. Now Stephen Strange has gotten into the act, and God knows what will come of that. Why have they not addressed it, unless they're holding back for some bigger reveal later? As far as we saw, Steve went on to live his life with Peggy in some version of domestic bliss, with no regard for how it affected anyone else, even Peggy. How would it not be a nexus event for such a huge do-over? Or is this just one of those things where there should be consequences unless there shouldn't?

[swanpride]

...what Bucky did wasn't bad at all. He had zero control. It doesn't matter who he killed. (Though, for the record, Howard was at the very least emotionally neglectful towards Tony, based on what Tony said in Ironman 2). 

And what Wanda did basically has the excuse of temporary insanity. 

[Kel Varnsen]

7 minutes ago, swanpride said:

Though, for the record, Howard was at the very least emotionally neglectful towards Tony, based on what Tony said in Ironman 2). 

Although that is what Tony said 20+ years later. We never really saw what Howard was like as a parent and after his death that is a lot of time for Tony's resentment to just sort of snowball in his head  and seem like something much worse than it actually was. Especially since Howard died suddenly. We will probably never really find out since Tony's story is done, but I wonder if Howard was that much worse than your typical 70's/80's workaholic parent?

[swanpride]

...an who said that the average workaholic father wasn't emotionally neglectful? 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

35 minutes ago, swanpride said:

...what Bucky did wasn't bad at all. He had zero control. It doesn't matter who he killed.

I'll go a step farther. The entire reason Steve and Bucky went to Siberia is because they thought Zemo was going to activate the other Winter Soldiers for his own purposes. "He asked about Siberia. Where I was kept." Of course by the time they get there, the others were dead because Zemo put bullets in their heads while they were still in cryo, but let's say he really did want more of them, to use them for his own personal army or whatever. What exactly was the plan to deal with them? If Barnes being brainwashed means it doesn't matter who he killed, do you suppose Steve was planning to be as lenient with the others? I really doubt they were stone killers when they came out of the proverbial box, so they were also brainwashed and tortured. Surely Cap would have wanted to reason with them, explain in his inspiring Captain America way that he was going to help them, but he didn't want to fight. Or would he not have bothered, because only Bucky deserves to be salvaged out of a garbage dump of a situation? If it's the latter, then it's a good thing Zemo did that bit of wetwork to keep Steve from getting his hands dirty. At best, it would have meant prison, and that would have only been if they surrendered peacefully. But they were still victims.

[swanpride]

Eh...those super soldiers volunteered. They were Hydra all along and weren't brainwashed at any point. They were basically uncontrollable, because the serum amplified their murderous tendencies. You can hardly compare them with Bucky, who didn't want any of this and had zero control over his actions. 

[Bruinsfan]

Were they definitely? I can easily see them being patriotic Russian volunteers in Cap's mold who didn't realize what they were getting into until it was too late. I've yet to see anyone take that reformulated version of the serum and come out of it seeming stable, and if you add conditioning/training by a highly deceptive secret conspiracy on top of that...

Edited September 24, 2021 by Bruinsfan

[Kel Varnsen]

32 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Were they definitely? I can easily see them being patriotic Russian volunteers in Cap's mold who didn't realize what they were getting into until it was too late. I've yet to see anyone take that reformulated version of the serum and come out of it seeming stable, and if you add conditioning/training by a highly deceptive secret conspiracy on top of that...

Red Guardian was relatively stable as was Isaiah Bradley. Both had later versions of the serum.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

Were they definitely? I can easily see them being patriotic Russian volunteers in Cap's mold who didn't realize what they were getting into until it was too late. I've yet to see anyone take that reformulated version of the serum and come out of it seeming stable, and if you add conditioning/training by a highly deceptive secret conspiracy on top of that...

I agree. When the movies dropped all references to Hydra much of the fanbase seems to have forgotten that many unknowingly were working for Hydra leaders like Secretary Pierce 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 9/23/2021 at 1:08 PM, swanpride said:

...an who said that the average workaholic father wasn't emotionally neglectful? 

Sure but if he was a standard father of the time, is it fair to hold him up to a higher standard than that. Would Tony's peers from the snooty schools he went to over the years have had different relationship's with their rich guy dads? But how many of them spent billions designing a holodeck because they couldn't get over their shit 25 years later.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[swanpride]

3 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Were they definitely? I can easily see them being patriotic Russian volunteers in Cap's mold who didn't realize what they were getting into until it was too late.

Yes. Bucky said so, and he would be the first one sympathetic to someone sharing his plight. 

[tv echo]

FYI...

Marvel Goes To Court To Stop Termination Claims By Spider-Man, Dr. Strange & Black Widow Artists & Scribes
By Dominic Patten    September 24, 2021
https://deadline.com/2021/09/marvel-court-termination-disney-spider-man-dr-strange-1234843941/ 

Marvel Suing to Keep Rights to ‘Avengers’ Characters From Copyright Termination
BY ERIQ GARDNER    SEPTEMBER 24, 2021 
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/marvel-suing-avengers-copyright-termination-1235020110/  

Marvel Sues to Block Heirs From Reclaiming Spider-Man, Doctor Strange Copyrights
By Gene Maddaus, K.J. Yossman    Sep 24, 2021
https://variety.com/2021/film/news/spider-man-captain-america-marvel-copyrigh-termination-1235072997/ 

Edited September 25, 2021 by tv echo

[Kel Varnsen]

I kind of hate these lawsuits. I have to imagine that those creators back in the 60's knew the deal. And the deal was get a steady paycheque even if the issue you created didn't sell. Plus the deal was that your creation gets to 1000's of news stands which would be impossible if you tried to sell it yourself. It's the same way that the architect who designed my house in the 60's knew that the deal was getting payed for your designs and that being it, even though I could probably sell my house for 50 (or more) what it originally sold for.

Plus I have to think owning the rights to those character doesn't have the same value if you don't have the Marvel name behind them or the continuity (that the original creators didn't do) or the ability to cross over with other characters.

[Ailianna]

Or the financial wherewithal to actually make movies and tv shows with the characters.

[swanpride]

Let's put it this way: With the artists, there might be a case that they deserve a cut (in a: It is not fair if they don't live a comfortable life when the companies make billions of their creation), with their heirs - nope. Never did anything for it in the first place. 

Otherwise I think everything needs to become a free domain eventually. Because it is also not fair if companies are hogging something which should be owned by everyone forever. 

[starri]

Public domain has at least finally started expanding again after decades.  Mrs. Dalloway and Great Gatsby fell out of copyright this year, some of Agatha Christie's early books have, and "Steamboat Willie" will in two years.  Unless we get another extension, but there doesn't seem to be a push for that.  Rights holders seem to be more focused on new version of characters in order to hold that specific part of the rights.  Disney has put out Mickey shorts with a radically different art style in the last few years.

[Kel Varnsen]

The thing with comic characters is that they are the ultimate collaborative story. So even if someone else were to get the rights to the original character of Spider-man that Lee and Ditko created, they don't necessarily have access to the almost 60 years of character development and continuity that goes with that character (or the other characters he has interacted with). No one wants an off brand Spiderman just like there didn't seem to be much drive or demand for off brand Bond movies after Never Say Never Again came out.

1 hour ago, starri said:

and "Steamboat Willie" will in two years.  Unless we get another extension, but there doesn't seem to be a push for that.  Rights holders seem to be more focused on new version of characters in order to hold that specific part of the rights.  Disney has put out Mickey shorts with a radically different art style in the last few years.

I often wonder how that would work. The copyright for Steamboat Willie like Spiderman is currently owned by Disney, and will eventually expire. But Mickey Mouse and Spiderman are also both trademarks that Disney own, and my understanding is those never expire. So if the copyright on Steamboat Will expires, does that just mean someone could make a new version with a different looking Mickey, or their own version of the DVD without Mickey's picture on the box?

 

[BaggythePanther]

20 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Plus I have to think owning the rights to those character doesn't have the same value if you don't have the Marvel name behind them or the continuity (that the original creators didn't do) or the ability to cross over with other characters.

 

18 hours ago, Ailianna said:

Or the financial wherewithal to actually make movies and tv shows with the characters.

This is why it seems the whole thing is just a ploy to get more money. The heirs don’t actually want to take back ownership of the Marvel characters.  What would they gain? Most likely they want to get a larger cut of the revenue from these characters and threatening to take the characters back is their leverage.

[swanpride]

whatever. Disney lawyers will win in the end anyway. 

[starri]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So if the copyright on Steamboat Will expires, does that just mean someone could make a new version with a different looking Mickey, or their own version of the DVD without Mickey's picture on the box?

My understanding is that it's specifically the film and the way Mickey is depicted that will be free use.  So you could make money streaming the film and sell a T-shirt with Mickey drawn in that style and be fine, but not make your own Mickey story.  Something similar will happen with Superman in ten years.

I know the comic book industry has exploited creators, especially in the early days.  But I don't think the gestalt we think of as Spider-Man is the exclusive domain of Stan Lee and Steve Ditko (and Jack Kirby, depending on your opinion there).  I think John Romita and Todd McFarlane and JM DeMatteis and Dan Slott, etc, etc, etc, are as much a part of his story.

[Kel Varnsen]

The funny thing is that the estate of Steve Ditko is named in the lawsuit. Because I am pretty sure he didn't really care about Spiderman or making money off the character after he left Marvel. I remember reading an article about him back in the 90's when I read comics. The thing that I still remember is that the interviewer went to Ditko's house and he was using original Spiderman pages basically as scrap paper to like clean brushes or test pencils or something. And those things would have been worth thousands. For those who don't know when a comic is printed, after the pages are made the original page art is sent back to the artist to keep or sell or whatever (I think they are usually split between the pencil artist and the inker). So even though an artist might not own the copyright on that page they still own the original page. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[tv echo]

I didn't see a topic thread for Thor: The Dark World (and it didn't seem worth creating one), so I'm posting this here...

'THOR 2' DIRECTOR WANTS TO MAKE A 'SNYDER CUT' OF HIS MARVEL MOVIE
JAKE KLEINMAN    SEPTEMBER 27, 2021
https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/thor-2-director-alan-taylor-snyder-cut 

Quote

After coming off a successful run working on golden-age TV shows like The Sopranos and Game of Thrones, [Alan] Taylor signed up with Marvel to deliver what is arguably the most flawed entry in the MCU’s 25-movie run. (Thor 2 did fine at the box office and pulled in decent reviews, but it’s still at the bottom of most Marvel movie rankings.)
*  *  *
“It’s funny, whenever I go into this topic, it goes viral. The Marvel Universe is rich and passionate you can say almost nothing and it will catch fire.”

“First of all, I have huge respect for Kevin Feige. I think he’s doing something that no one else has ever done before and that nobody thought was possible until he did it. Now, everyone's trying to imitate it.”

“For me, the process was not fun. I focused all my attention on making a certain movie. And then in the editing process, decisions were made to change it a lot. He’s got an empire he’s running and things have to be changed to fit into other things. My regret was that the movie that got released was changed quite a bit in a way that I couldn't shape really. I mean, I shot all the material that we put in the movie, but we set out to make one movie, and then major plot points were reversed in post. It’s not the ideal way to work.”

“So yeah, I have a great fondness for some of the things that went away in the original cut. There was a kind of quality a wonder to the thing that was beautiful to me. I think I was brought in to bring some Game of Thronesiness to it in reaction to the first Thor, which was a little too shiny, was my feeling. And then partway through, they started to realize that they wanted to hit in a different direction. So it was kind of a stumbling process.”

“That said, they know exactly what they’re doing and I’ve seen other directors go in there and nail it, like Taika Waititi and James Gunn. The difference is, those guys were writing and directing. I think that’s a healthier way to go into the Marvel Universe. So it was a learning experience.”

“I was cheering for Snyder when he was doing that and thinking, Will he pull this off? This is amazing. I think every director was kind of rooting for that. I would love to, I mean to. Can you imagine that? They give me however many millions of dollars they gave him to go back in. Yeah, I don’t think I’m going to get that phone call.”

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by tv echo

[Kel Varnsen]

Like Marvel would let any director put out a director's cut. And if they did it certainly wouldn't be the director of Thor 2.

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

what is arguably the most flawed entry in the MCU’s 25-movie run.

Arguably, yes.  I would personally put at least IM2 below it.  

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

then major plot points were reversed in post.

Not saying I would want a Director’s Cut (no), but I am curious now what those plot points were.

[Kel Varnsen]

17 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Arguably, yes.  I would personally put at least IM2 below it.  

IM2 is probably a worse movie (although I haven't seen Thor 2 in years), but Iron Man 2 was also directed by Jon Favreau. If there is any director that could convince Marvel to put out a director's cut, he is probably in the top 3.

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, Kel Varnsen said:

If there is any director that could convince Marvel to put out a director's cut, he is probably in the top 3.

True.

[Bruinsfan]

40 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Arguably, yes.  I would personally put at least IM2 below it. 

I agree. I'll sometimes re-watch The Dark World if I run across it while channel surfing. My threshold for "there's nothing worth watching on TV tonight; find something better to do with my time" is way above Iron Man 2.

[swanpride]

I prefer Ironman 2. But my least favourite is the Incredible Hulk anyway. 

I guess it would be interesting to see the directors cut of The Dark World, but more for academical reasons. If I remember correctly, after the movie failed with the (apparently usually pretty spot on) test audience, they added the Loki scenes - and those are the ONLY reason to watch the movie at all. 

[Morrigan2575]

Anyone hear the spoilers/leaks for Strange 2?  If so, you believe them or think foiler?

[tv echo]

Marvel Studios President Confirms 31 MCU Movies, Shows & Specials Are In Development
By Aeron Mer Eclarinal    September 29, 2021
https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-studios-movies-shows-specials-future-release-dates 

Quote

Marvel Studios President of physical and post-production, visual effects, and animation production Victoria Alonso sat down with 221 Radio-103.1 to talk about the future of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

During the interview, which was conducted in Spanish, Alonso confirmed that the studio has "thirty-one projects" that are currently in development:

"We have thirty-one projects underway and the stories we tell have to do with the human factor."

ETA: Regarding the recent leaked "spoilers" for Doctor Strange 2, fwiw, one star has debunked his appearance in that film.

Edited September 30, 2021 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

16 minutes ago, tv echo said:

ETA: Regarding the recent leaked "spoilers" for Doctor Strange 2, fwiw, one star has debunked his appearance in that film.

Edited 14 minutes ago by tv echo

I never even heard him connected to the movie. The ones I heard regarded another actor. 

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I never even heard him connected to the movie. The ones I heard regarded another actor. 

Which one? There have been so many. 

At this point they are going so deep into the multiverse almost any of the rumors could be true. 

[tv echo]

Edited October 1, 2021 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, Dani said:

Which one? There have been so many. 

At this point they are going so deep into the multiverse almost any of the rumors could be true. 

Stewart.

Frankly they sounded implausible to me. More extensions of all the Wandavison speculation/spoilers that went on endlessly...oh the season finale will feature Stewart and McKellen no no it will feature McAvoy and and Fastbender!

I was just surprised to see so many YouTubers saying these look/feel authentic.

Of course the fact that I doubt them probably makes them accurate 😂

[tv echo]

Venom: Let There Be Carnage comes out in theaters today and it apparently has a mid-credits or post-credits scene that affects the MCU. I've posted media reporting about this scene in the Venom thread here.

Edited October 1, 2021 by tv echo