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Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

Lisin

By Lisin
in Characters of Arrow

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fantique
fantique

Ok peeps, this is a long one and full of meandering thoughts. Sorry about it, but only just a little. I have a good example of a really good actress that could not live on the audience's good will a

Ceylon5
Ceylon5

From Wikipedia (on characterisation):     Just because we're not directly told what to think about someone, it doesn't mean that we're not being given any characterisation.  In real life, we get t

KenyaJ
KenyaJ

I agree that it's bad pacing, but it's not that difficult for me to connect the dots and see how Felicity got from point A to point B. For almost two years, she's pretty much devoted her life to Olive

Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

You guys are good at keeping your glasses!!!! I have a pair but my reading is really low so I don't use them but I'm forever losing them so need to claim a new pair every so often in case I need them. 

With all the wardrobe changes EBR gets it's weird they don't make her model new glasses. I mean she changed jackets before getting kidnapped!

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Featherhat

Featherhat

On ‎19‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 5:29 AM, TrueMyth said:

That makes me curious about the genesis of her distinct style.  She's older I the Firestorm comics, right?  Who came up with her current look?  There is always so much stock put into the design of superhero costumes, when I'd argue that Felicity's blond ponytail and glasses is one of the most distinctive looks to come out of Arrow.

I know that some guest actors bring their own clothes and let the wardrobe person select and assemble from their.  Was that Emily's pink shirt?  Is her look called out at all in the 1x03 script?

I think they just started out with kinda generic (though often bright) "quirky office chic" and since she's an IT nerd they put her in glasses and ponytail. Luckily it suited EBR and the character. She made the character a lot more than she was on the script page for 1x03, so she became popular and people started thinking about it as a distinctive look on Arrow and referencing it has "her" look when characters on other shows used it, including pilot Kara. I don't know if it was EBR's shirt and I don't remember if the script references her look, although IIRC it does describe her a bit and again it's not really the character that she almost instantly became. If another actress had played it straight she probably wouldn't have had more than a few guest spots here and there. It is one of those scenes that makes me want to have been in on the casting sessions or looking at audition tapes, same with other LLs including Amy G who plays Cupid.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

I think Felicity is still pretty rare in the U.S., although it's becoming more popular according to a chart I was looking at on BabyCenter.com.  As far as I can recall, I haven't met any Felicities in RL.

https://www.babycenter.com/baby-names-felicity-1669.htm

According to this website, Oliver was #12 on the list of most popular boys' names in the U.S. last year.  Felicity was #356.

Edited by Starfish35
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tv echo

tv echo

For those of you who are keeping track, here are two more Felicity/Louise comparisons in Marvel's Inhumans reviews...

Quote

“Something Inhuman This Way Comes” is the title of the fifth episode of Marvel’s Inhumans, though the photos released to promote the episode look like something out of LOST (with a bonus Felicity Smoak lookalike).

http://www.ksitetv.com/inhumans/inhumans-episode-5-pics-something-inhuman-way-comes/162929/

Quote

Louise, who is irritatingly Felicity Smoak-ish, camps outside the prison.

http://www.tv.com/topics/general-tv-discussion/community/post/divide-and-conquer---marvels-inhumans-s01e03-review-1507422119/

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Yet another "Felicity" reference in an unexpected place (though I don't see the comparison at all in this case)...

THE FIRST TWO THOR MOVIES ARE BETTER THAN YOU THINK, GUYS
Dany Roth   November 2, 2017
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-first-two-thor-movies-are-better-than-you-think-guys

Quote

And the thing about Jane Foster is that she was Felicity Smoak before there was an Arrow to star Felicity Smoak (and also some people from a comic book, I guess). Natalie Portman is lovely and she plays Jane as smart but a little lost in this world. She's attractive! She just can't quite get it together some days. You know... like most everyone on this Earth.

Edited by tv echo
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

It's very interesting and I'm glad you are keeping a list.  Jane Foster I guess also works as Felicity in as much as she's a genius that finds the hero REALLY hot and ends up helping him be a better hero.  And of course she's not portrayed as drop deep gorgeous but the drop-dead gorgeous hero finds her really charming and falls in love with her even though I believe in the comics she's not his big love interest? I'm more than a bit fuzzy on that last bit but like how Pepper Potts was for a long time TEASED as Tony Stark love interest/foil without them going there, I think so was Jane Foster.  I know for sure in both cases I was told who they ultimately ended up with in the comics and it wasn't the hero.  

I get the impression that in many of the comics in the past, the heroes didn't have main love interests. (Lot's of playboys loners)  I'm also happily under the impression that audiences don't like that as much anymore and so for the movies, they added a lot of dimension and growth for like Tony by having him in love with Pepper (another I've seen Felicity compared to)  I'm very much in favor of the changes but maybe comic purists are not so thrilled, lol.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

5 hours ago, LJones41 said:

I've noticed that characters like Felicity, Laurel and Sara are better when they are not romantically involved with Oliver.

I think Sara sure is.  I have trouble judging on Laurel since she was only with him in the distant past or that one hook up before Tommy died.  Otherwise, she's been in a non-romantic relationship with Oliver most of her time on the show so who we saw is who IMO we always got with Oliver romantically or not.   

Felicity, I do not feel was diminished when she was with Oliver before, so I don't think she will be now that she's with him again.  She never drops her ambitions when she's with Oliver and he's always been so sweetly supportive and proud of what she does outside of how she works with him. 

Being in that closer romantic relationship though does IMO give her more reasons/opportunities to argue with him which I think does bother some people about her character but it's a slight change going from friend/partner to Significant Other/Partner that rings true to me.  But while the extra closeness might create a few extra spats, they communicate beautifully now.  And their love for one another is so palpable that even when they do argue, I feel the caring and concern even among the frustration. 

When Oliver was romantically paired with Sara, she seemed to be positioned as more extreme in her position on killing, a change to her character that didn't IMO actually have to do with dating Oliver but did coincide with it so I can agree I liked her better before and then since where she's really come into her own on LoT rather than just getting used to stress the differences between her and Oliver's character.     

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way2interested

way2interested

So now into the slow hiatus mode until Arrow returns, my friend and I for fun were trying to figure out the 24 times Felicity thought that she was going to die in a situation (from that "if I had a dime for every time" crack in the crossover, since her password had a lot of thought put into it, why not pretend that specific thought had detail to it as well), and we came up with kind of a preliminary list so far.

First set being moments where she legitimately thought she was going to die from either lines/presumed dead situation/shows a significant impact in the scene after escaping death

  • 115 (first mission so probably) 
  • 123 (being in a basement during an earthquake along with the "leaving" line made us figure that she was prepared for things to go really wrong)
  • 201 (argument between the land mine--since it came out of the blue for them--and the attack at QC---since at the end of the scene they ended up having to run away rather than even fight back)
  • 207 ("not for me" totally implied that she didn't think she was getting out of that situation nor did she want Oliver to go that far)
  • 223 (Sticking Slade with the cure may have been part of the plan, but I wouldn't think that they were 110% positive that the plan would work out)
  • 301 (a pretty much life/death situation)
  • 305 (Felicity had a line to Donna about figuring out a plan so they won't end up dying)
  • 308 (the bombs that they had to all stop at once was a quick life/death situation)
  • 322 (she and Diggle had final words to each other)
  • Twice in 409 (being shot and almost dying in that gas chamber)
  • 417 (arguable multiple times in that episode, but Felicity specifically had a line about trying not to die)
  • 423 (deflecting that missile away from the city and cheering with Curtis after they managed to do it)
  • 510 (Oliver had a line trying to convince BS not to kill Felicity and even then they were only saved from death by Curtis)
  • 512 (totally being prepared to die with that explosion)
  • 520 (multiple times in general, like 417, but also specifically telling Oliver to let her go so he and Diggle could get out)
  • 523 (those bombs going off)
  • 604 (multiple life/death situations in that episode alone)
  • 608 (Her line reference to Iris)

So yeah about 19 or so we could immediately come up with, and then some extra that we didn't know if we would count or not because they weren't as blatant as the previous list but still pretty significant:

  • Pretty much any other time she was in danger/captured (117, 121, 203, 311, 317, 319, 403, 522, etc.)
  • The time she got shot (214)
  • Times she/ the team were attacked (219, 222/223, 421,423, WestAllen's wedding and Flash 405, etc.)
  • And probably a bunch more

We only thought of stuff we could come up with off the top of our heads, but I thought it was kind of interesting/funny at how much Felicity likely didn't count if she was actually being semi-serious with that number. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Bringing over from Social Media thread:

Quote

Bad things that Felicity has done that no one seems to care about (in the Arrowverse)

Badmouthed Moira at her wake

Dated Ray despite being in love with someone else, breaks up with him after Ray has fallen for her, and seizes his private jet so she can have sex with her ex

Outed Barry as the Flash to Malcolm Merlyn

Tried to convince Ray to abandon the thousands of dying people in Starling City so he can rescue her boyfriend

Ruined Ray’s company and legacy by spending company money towards purchasing cocaine and financing her boyfriend's mayoral campaign

Lied to Oliver about helping the team when they were both retired

Treated Oliver with hostility for accepting dinner with her mother and offering to help her

In an aborted timeline, she irrationally breaks up with Oliver right before he does battle with an immortal assassin, indirectly contributing to the destruction of Central City

(Break-up Reason: Oliver doesn't tell Felicity about an 8-year old child Oliver's just learned he's the father. She insinuates he doesn't trust her.)

Sexistly assumed Lance did something wrong "because you're a man" when Donna is upset.

Broke up with Oliver for an irrational reason while he’s in an emotionally vulnerable state having just sent away his only son

(Break-up Reason: Oliver didn't tell Felicity about his son because the mother requested no one would know in exchange for visitation rights. She insinuates he doesn't trust her, and also puts him at fault for not including her in the decision of William's future.)

Packs up Oliver’s things without telling him and seizes his sister's loft, leaving him homeless

Behaves immaturely and unprofessionally in the field after breaking up with Oliver

Refused to testify against Damien Darhk because she recently broke up with Oliver

Denounced Oliver's training methods of inexperienced recruits, thereby undermining his authority over them

Lied to her boyfriend, Billy Malone, about working with the Green Arrow despite ending an engagement for dishonesty

Redirected a nuke to Havenrock, killing tens of thousands of people

Ordered a hit on Black Siren in direct defiance of Oliver’s standing command

Let Black Siren free when Felicity believes that she is a dangerous villain

Betrayed Team Arrow to aid Helix in breaking a notorious cyber criminal from an A.R.G.U.S. black site

Blatantly lied saying to Oliver that she "always backs his play even when she doesn’t agree with it". She uses this lie to redirect blame from her betrayal to Team Arrow towards Oliver.

Used Oliver for sex, post break-up, knowing that he's still in love with her

Slaps Curtis for thinking about vomiting

Without telling her business partner, she defrauds her investors by using the money meant for the company start-up to post bond for her boyfriend

Made a scene at Barry and Iris’ rehearsal dinner

Interrupted Barry and Iris’ wedding so she could propose to and wed her boyfriend at the same time

Surveilled her business partner Curtis, and fellow teammates Rene and Dinah

Okay, I have thoughts about a lot of these, but the one I bolded is a particular source of irritation for me.  Barry's unreliable narrator aside, Felicity in no way contributed to the destruction of Central City by the argument with Oliver.  I think people think she did because Barry said so, and truthfully I've never been sure whether or not the writers want us to believe this.  But if you look at how things played out, it just doesn't work.  The first attack against Savage failed because 1) Kendra couldn't access her powers (something not affected by the Olicity fight), and 2) because their weapon failed (again, something that would have happened whether the Olicity fight happened or not).  The only reason it didn't fail the second time is that Oliver, with Barry's intel, had Kendra work with Cisco rather than with Carter, and that led to her having the breakthrough that helped them get what they needed to make the weapon work.  The whole success or failure of that mission had to do with Kendra remembering what she needed to, and Oliver's choice to have her work with Carter the first time around was made long before he and Felicity had their fight.  In other words, the outcome was already set before Felicity confronted Oliver.  She had nothing to do with how it turned out, either directly or indirectly.  

The argument seems to be that because of the fight, Oliver was not in the right headspace to confront Savage, and made poor decisions leading to their defeat, and the destruction of Central City.  But nothing Oliver could have done, fight or no fight, would have won against Savage.  Their defeat in the first timeline had absolutely nothing to do with choices Oliver made after the fight with Felicity.   So this argument of blaming her for this is completely illogical.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Quote

But if you look at how things played out, it just doesn't work.  The first attack against Savage failed because 1) Kendra couldn't access her powers (something not affected by the Olicity fight), and 2) because their weapon failed (again, something that would have happened whether the Olicity fight happened or not).  The only reason it didn't fail the second time is that Oliver, with Barry's intel, had Kendra work with Cisco rather than with Carter, and that led to her having the breakthrough that helped them get what they needed to make the weapon work.

And for the weapon, I think Barry basically just said, hey Cisco, are you sure it's going to work and then Cicso realized he had needed to add some kind of compensator.  The only difference in the fight that Oliver made the second time is he let more of the team go along but their presence before would have been moot without Kendra and the glove thing that let them grab the staff.   

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

30 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Not to mention how misogynistic it is to blame the woman for being the reason why the male hero "didn't have his head in the game". If a guy can't compartmentalize his personal problems to deal with the issues at hand, that's his problem. 

Add to that list the how dare Felicity break up with Oliver over his actions when he is already sad due to something else he also did!  

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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

14 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Wow I wonder if they twist and nitpicking every character's actions like that and use it as this awful thing.Somehow I think not.

This is what I was thinking as well.  There is no shortage of stupid/selfish moves by every character who has been on the show.  Off the top of my head:

Oliver:  Hooked up with Laurel after telling his best friend to go after her, skipped his mother's funeral, left Diggle hanging when Argus was cornering deadshot, shot Barry with arrows to train him, left Thea to fend for herself after Moira was in prison, went with Sara to dinner at Laurel, etc.

Thea:  Went off with Malcolm, killed Sara, refused to sign the papers which would save the company, etc.

Laurel: hooked up with Oliver, blackmailed for her job back, almost shot an innocent man

Diggle: Lied about killing his brother, lied about his disability, bought illegal drugs,

Some of the points they listed for Felicity are true.  The point is that one could come up with an equally long list for all the characters on the show.

tangerine95

tangerine95

(edited)
47 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

This is what I was thinking as well.  There is no shortage of stupid/selfish moves by every character who has been on the show.  Off the top of my head:

Oliver:  Hooked up with Laurel after telling his best friend to go after her, skipped his mother's funeral, left Diggle hanging when Argus was cornering deadshot, shot Barry with arrows to train him, left Thea to fend for herself after Moira was in prison, went with Sara to dinner at Laurel, etc.

Thea:  Went off with Malcolm, killed Sara, refused to sign the papers which would save the company, etc.

Laurel: hooked up with Oliver, blackmailed for her job back, almost shot an innocent man

Diggle: Lied about killing his brother, lied about his disability, bought illegal drugs,

Some of the points they listed for Felicity are true.  The point is that one could come up with an equally long list for all the characters on the show.

Yeah some are true tho blown out of proportion and with the context ignored to make it worse.Like takes her ex bf's jet to have sex with Oliver lol.Would anyone without a huge hate for Felicity interpret her actions in 3.20 like that.Or accusing her of badmouthing Moira or leaving Oliver homeless when he moved out after a break up from a place she was paying for.Not to even mention accusing her of nuking a city or wanting to let people die to save Oliver.Just a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense and didn't happen like that at all plus stuff that was presented as her making a mistake and learning from it.

But also like it's a TV show,of course characters will make mistakes,it's what moves the story along.

Edited by tangerine95
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way2interested

way2interested

It's also annoying because it makes it harder to actually acknowledge legitimate criticism for Felicity. Like, I did think she overreacted in 408 but since it was erased the point became moot and I just went to hoping that the actual breakup wasn't framed as harshly, and I was partially on the side of the show saying that Felicity didn't want to talk about their problems. However, I wouldn't jump down and say it makes her the worst or makes her a horrible person, but the hyperbole makes it difficult to talk about an actual flawed character without cringing at slightly agreeing with the hyperbole or thinking that the flaw might actually just be overblown in my mind.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

What bugs me about some of the stuff on that reddit list is that I bet some people who hate on Felicity for those things would probably have completely different opinions if Laurel had been in her position. If Laurel had, for some inexplicable reason, been able to stop the nukes/redirect that last one, they'd be praising her for sending it to the less populated city. If Laurel had walked out on Oliver, they'd say she was right because they were engaged and he shouldn't have lied to her. Etc. 

Now, the bail money was stupid. (And I also can't help but wonder if they simply went with the easiest option - "Felicity has money from investors, we need tension between Curtis and Felicity and there's already some about the company in this episode, we don't really know the status of the Queens' finances because that depends on the week/we don't keep track really," etc.)

And Felicity's "because you're a man" comment to Lance did bother me a bit, but at the same time, the show has only done the bare minimum in exploring her issues from growing up without a father/him reappearing in her life/etc., so an argument can be made that Felicity hasn't either and that factors into her judgment. 

  • Love 1
LeighAn

LeighAn

A list of things Felicity didn't do:

Sleeping with Olivers best friend 

Telling Oliver she's wishes he had died and rot in hell 

Sleeping with Oliver when she was technically still trying to work on her relationship with Tommy who was already insecure that he was just a place holder to her

Screaming at her sister for ruining her life when said sister had just come back from the dead 

black mailing the DA to give her a job

bringing her sister back from the dead, chaining her up in a basement, then when her sister gets loose getting her father to cover up her sisters murders to save her own ass then when her sister attacks and almost kills Thea and Oliver justifiably is upset making it all about herself and her own feelings of Oliver not respecting her even though she does crazy shit like raise people from the dead and chain them up in basements. Then wanting to kill her sister anyway because she feels her sister's too far gone. 

 See how that works Reddit? 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

3 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 

And Felicity's "because you're a man" comment to Lance did bother me a bit, but at the same time, the show has only done the bare minimum in exploring her issues from growing up without a father/him reappearing in her life/etc., so an argument can be made that Felicity hasn't either and that factors into her judgment. 

I always took it as Felicity automatically being on her mom’s side.  Yeah, it’s probably knee jerk left over from childhood, but what did Lance expect? She’s her mom.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

28 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I always took it as Felicity automatically being on her mom’s side.  Yeah, it’s probably knee jerk left over from childhood, but what did Lance expect? She’s her mom.

I felt more from her childhood than just being on her mother’s side because that line seemed to be more than “between you and my mom, I’m on my mom’s side.” That could have been accomplished with “I know my mom” or something like that. Though we’re probably giving it more thought than whoever wrote the line. 

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