Season 8 Discussion

[sATL]

16 hours ago, sugarplum said:

I hate defending this, but Tori is from rural Tennessee. Southerns cook different. We throw the beans in a sauce pan with a hunk of fat back or streak of lean and cook them down. I had been married for several years before I ever had a sautéed green bean...and I hated them. Haha

i may have misunderstood Tori regarding the dinner (I was definitely multitasking while watching and don’t really care to watch it again), but I thought Tori said it was Erin’s recipe, not that Erin made it. 

Agree. Hence the most recent season of Top Chef, season 16, when ended the night this Bates episode aired. Came down to a chef from AL vs. a  chef from KY, who stayed very true to their southern cooking style/dishes  ( link to finale menu).

Edited March 17, 2019 by sATL

[LolaGeek]

On 3/15/2019 at 6:00 PM, Bessiesue said:

Add that to the fact they used spray paint, instead of using black contact paper.  Tori did say she was cooking which is why she did not see/help in the room.  Agree with the fact that Bobby is so over Tori, and shoots darts towards her.

I'm not a contact paper expert, but I couldn't figure out a) why they were painting it instead of just starting with a colored paper, and b) why they made a square template and cut out individual squares, instead of just drawing a grid and slicing it in straight lines. The latter would have wasted a lot less time and materials...

[flyingdi]

What is the age difference between Tori, Lawson, and Carlin?  Those three seem particularly close.  Maybe more so than other family members.

Alyssa and Josie also seem close.

[iluvobx]

On 3/15/2019 at 1:24 PM, Tikichick said:

I thought Lawson was there because he is crashing there since they live in Nashville and he is in Nashville trying to get his music career off the ground.  I thought that was also the primary reason the nursery was being set up with another bed in it -- including yet another spare mattress on the floor underneath that bed from what I could see.  

Lawson did say he was crashing there.  At one time, Lawson had an apartment in Nashville or in the area.  As for the bed, that is a trundle bed.  The mattress was not on the floor, you pull it out and up and you can turn a single into a double or just pull it out and it is another single.  A lot of people that have limited space have trundle beds.

[LongDenimFrumper]

It was mentioned up thread but I have to ask again, what in the world does Tori do all day?? She clearly doesn't decorate. Their apartment looked haphazardly thrown together. Sort of like she took style ideas from all her sisters and incorporated random leftover pieces from them. I understand being young and tight on cash and working with what  you have but these girls are supposed to be professional homemakers and incredible thrift treasure finders. Erin mentioned that cooking isn't Tori's thing... so she doesn't typically cook either. They must eat out a lot or she waits until Bobby comes home to cook something for them to eat. She doesn't seem to have any hobbies.... she doesn't teach piano/music lessions, craft, babysit, etc. She definitely isn't working. She just seems like a miserable person. And LAZY. Really really lazy. I don't get that impression from the rest of the sisters but I definitely do from Tori. She must just slug around the house all day long and put some heavy eyeliner/eye shadow on before Bobby comes home to entertain her and have "sweet fellowship".... BARF. 

[BetyBee]

Everything I read here about Tori, makes her sound just awful.  I don't watch the show much, but I feel that Kelly is much the same way.  I've seen her badgering guys about when they will marry her daughters - so annoying.  And she too, never shuts her yap when a camera is around.  I know she thinks she's all that and I disagree!  But I remember a time when Kelly was about to give birth to somebody and she and Gil were so sweet together, when she was in labor, kind of dancing (!) and hugging and so low key.  Do you suppose the cameras have ruined this family too?  

[Tikichick]

4 hours ago, iluvobx said:

Lawson did say he was crashing there.  At one time, Lawson had an apartment in Nashville or in the area.  As for the bed, that is a trundle bed.  The mattress was not on the floor, you pull it out and up and you can turn a single into a double or just pull it out and it is another single.  A lot of people that have limited space have trundle beds.

I'm familiar with trundle beds, actually grew up with one in the house.  It appeared to me that bottom mattress was simply on the floor, no frame, nothing underneath, simply on the floor.

[IndianPaintbrush]

On 3/18/2019 at 12:04 PM, BetyBee said:

Everything I read here about Tori, makes her sound just awful.  I don't watch the show much, but I feel that Kelly is much the same way.  I've seen her badgering guys about when they will marry her daughters - so annoying.  And she too, never shuts her yap when a camera is around.  I know she thinks she's all that and I disagree!  But I remember a time when Kelly was about to give birth to somebody and she and Gil were so sweet together, when she was in labor, kind of dancing (!) and hugging and so low key.  Do you suppose the cameras have ruined this family too?  

I wouldn't say the cameras have ruined the family, but they've definitely changed them. The girls especially are hyper-aware of how they look; there is so much emphasis on fashion, makeup and hairstyling. That's normal for teenage girls, but sometimes I wonder if they ever get criticism from the fundie community.

[RebeccatheWriter]

1 hour ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

I wouldn't say the cameras have ruined the family, but they've definitely changed them. The girls especially are hyper-aware of how they look; there is so much emphasis on fashion, makeup and hairstyling. That's normal for teenage girls, but sometimes I wonder if they ever get criticism from the fundie community.

Beyond the outward appearance stuff, some of them are so aware of the cameras that they pose and try to be in the background or foreground (Carlin) for everything. 

They have also changed in that they are more aware of socially acceptable things. Their origin stories have been edited quite a bit from when we first saw the family. They also skirt around the IBLP issues and the ATI program in Big Sandy. Some of that is editing, but there is a part that is Gil and Kelly Jo being revisionists. Even Gil's former career has been changed many times, as he originally said he quit. Then it was he was laid off. Then it was that he was about to be laid off so he quit. And I think it's back to them saying he was laid off. 

The dance thing is one of the latest. Early on they were anti dancing. Not as militaristic as say the Duggars, but still against it. A few years ago Trace wanted to try out for Dixie Stampede. He had to dance to do so and was left to his own devices with Kelly Jo simply saying they didn't dance. Josie's dress was tight in the arms and the consultant mentioned dancing. Kelly Jo couldn't have corrected her fast enough. Now Carlin wants to dance at her wedding and suddenly it's A-okay and the family is excited for Gil and Carlin to take lessons together. 

None of these are super serious, but they do show that the family is more aware of how they are portrayed and public opinion. 

Same thing with the younger girls spilling the beans that Nathan had a girlfriend (Ashley) before that was shown on the show.  It's clear that they are coached on what they can and can't say. There are many times they correct each other like that. And there are other times you can tell Kelly Jo or someone is off to the side because they look from the interviewer (producer) to another person before they speak on something that might be troublesome. 

[Kathy]

This new episode was boring.  Why do they have to be all over each other to prove their love to us?  When Kelly and Gil were in the car driving the little boys to rock climbing they were so touchy feely like just let Gil drive already.

I don't see Trace being a cop.  He didn't seem that into it.

I like that Josie decorated her new place herself (with her friend)instead of calling in the family decorator Erin.

[65mickey]

55 minutes ago, Kathy said:

This new episode was boring.  Why do they have to be all over each other to prove their love to us?  When Kelly and Gil were in the car driving the little boys to rock climbing they were so touchy feely like just let Gil drive already.

I don't see Trace being a cop.  He didn't seem that into it.

I like that Josie decorated her new place herself (with her friend)instead of calling in the family decorator Erin.

Very boring. I don't see how this show can survive much longer.  Aren't you supposed to have both hands on the wheel when driving not holding hands with the person sitting next to you?  Its pretty sickening for these 2 to have to be wrapped around each other. We get it you are  in love!

[RebeccatheWriter]

1 hour ago, Kathy said:

This new episode was boring.  Why do they have to be all over each other to prove their love to us?  When Kelly and Gil were in the car driving the little boys to rock climbing they were so touchy feely like just let Gil drive already.

I don't see Trace being a cop.  He didn't seem that into it.

I like that Josie decorated her new place herself (with her friend)instead of calling in the family decorator Erin.

What doesn't Kelly Jo get the vapors over on this show? She screams and has a "come aparts" in cars, on the swing, watching her children on playground equipment, climbing rock walls, on boats, etc. Does this woman have a normal mode in her life? Sometimes I wonder why Carlin and Erin seem to love all the attention and then I see Kelly Jo and remember she raised them. I wouldn't invite that woman anywhere for the sake of my eardrums. 

That said, I'm pleased that they did take Addy to the doctor and acknowledged her hearing issues. Her speech impediment had already revealed it without them saying it, but I'm glad to know they have taken steps to help her. 

Poor Trace. He is still searching for what he wants to be when he grows up. Maybe he should try to do something his brothers haven't done. He likes horses and trick riding, what about looking at working with animals. I'm not saying a vet, but maybe a stable and do riding lessons. 

Yes, I was glad to see that little bit of independence from Josie. She's being a bit more Alyssa like with her not wanting everyone to come visit and doing more of her own thing. I hope that continues. I could see shades of that with her planning the wedding and not relying upon her mother or Erin for every single thing (Tori). I also appreciate that she welcomed Whitney just to stop by (probably planted but whatever) and didn't immediately rope her into helping. 

Edited March 22, 2019 by RebeccatheWriter

[Tikichick]

3 hours ago, Kathy said:

This new episode was boring.  Why do they have to be all over each other to prove their love to us?  When Kelly and Gil were in the car driving the little boys to rock climbing they were so touchy feely like just let Gil drive already.

I don't see Trace being a cop.  He didn't seem that into it.

I like that Josie decorated her new place herself (with her friend)instead of calling in the family decorator Erin.

The same reason their devotion to their faith requires extreme public demonstrations of piety.

[floridamom]

I think Addallee Bates is another victim of a botched homebirth. Kelly and Gil already said on their show that Addallee's hearing loss was due to the cord being wrapped around her neck. They had to call 911 to help her out. IF that baby had been delivered in a proper medical setting WITH properly trained obstetrical personnel, the staff would have handled it right away and that lovely little girl would have had no effects from a 'non event'. I'm so tired of these types of families pushing their luck...Kendra Caldwell's mother, having her 8th child with previous complications, Jill Dillard, Jessa Seewald, Joy Forsyth and Kelly Bates. No wonder her daughters and daughters in law delivered in another setting other than home. Gil and Kelly should feel properly guilty for what the results are in Addallee's birth.

[IndianPaintbrush]

Erin, Carlin and Whitney have a new online business venture: Bates Sisters' Boutique.

[BitterApple]

11 minutes ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

Erin, Carlin and Whitney have a new online business venture: Bates Sisters' Boutique.

Interesting. I think they could do well. All three girls are pretty, stylish and photogenic. If they work hard at it, I can see them moving a lot of merchandise. 

Regarding last night's episode, Josie's apartment is really cute. Boho with macrame plant holders is very on-trend. Like everyone else, I thought it was nice to see her tackle projects with a friend and not falling back on family. 

Addallee is such a beautiful girl. It makes me sad to read her issues could've been prevented. 

I agree Trace seems to be struggling to find purpose. I think it's great he's trying new things, but I don't see him sticking with law enforcement either. That's a tough job and you need to have a certain constitution for it. 

[cereality]

Boring episode.

Trace – lots of people struggle to figure out what they want to do, but interesting that he’s 22 and AFTER “college” is when he’s trying to figure it out.  Don’t most people figure it out before or during college? Guess that “religious studies” or whatever degree from Crown didn’t help him much.  I doubt Gil and Kelly see or want to see how much they have shortchanged him and all the kids with their ridiculous religious homeschooling led by Michaela or Erin or whoever was “teacher” for Trace.  For most people if you struggle to decide what to do but you have 1-2 interests, you can pursue them and see which works out/gets you a job.  For Trace and all fundies really, they can only pursue what they have seen older fundies pursue because they KNOW they have the same minimal education as those guys so if someone would hire them at x, then I can probably get hired too; if no one they know has ever pursued engineering or finance or whatever, well it’s because those heathens running the world won’t hire us so I shouldn’t even waste my time.

And compared to other fundies like the Duggars, Trace is LUCKY because the guys around him have a number of occupations, all of which can make them a living.  He knows a tree guy; a cop; a plumber; an electrician (in training); a fundie pilot; HVAC repair.  So he KNOWS those are options and if he wants to pursue them, there are guys who can tell him how.  If Zach hadn’t taken up a job at the city commissioner’s office out of high school and learned about sheriff training and pursued it, it wouldn’t be an option for any of his brothers either because I 100% believe none of them would ever have figured out that you can go into the sheriff’s office with a HS education, do reserve training and volunteer, and then move to full time and make it a profession with full benefits/insurance/pension etc.  In contrast, the Duggar guys know of NO options beyond sweeping up at dad’s rental properties so they have no idea what to do with themselves – or how to pursue anything but that.

Unsurprisingly they all seem to be riding the Chad horse – seems like every guy in that fam now expects Chad to hire them so they can make $$$$.  Hope Chad has some amazing business generation skills bc the work he brings in is going to have to feed his own family as well as Trace and Jackson’s eventual families and likely a few of the younger bros too like Warden or Isaiah.

I think right now it looks like Zach is being a better father to the younger guys than Gil – we’ve seen him be honest and realistic in directly telling them they need to plan for the future financially.  Gil and Kelly seem to just take the – find a girl, get married, make babies, the Lord will provide – approach.  It was interesting when Z said – go FT as a cop, you work one week on and one week off, in your off weeks, work with Chad and make $$$ -- get your financial stability as a cop and extra $ in construction BEFORE you get a girlfriend and get married.  Trace asked if that’s how he and Whit planned it and Zach was very honest in saying – NO – I wish I had done it that way and talked about financial pressures that he has now with a wife and family that would’ve been easier if he was on more solid financial footing at wedding time. Way to go Gil.  I don’t think you really gave Zach that fatherly advice or helped him make any plan.  So the other boys (the ones who are willing to listen – so not Law and Nathan) are lucky to at least have Zach honestly telling them to make $$$ because they will need it later on.

And agree with the others, Trace isn’t cut out to be a cop.  He’s only 22 – an age when guys are fearless – and he mentioned a TON of times how dangerous the job is, how he doesn’t like approaching cars at traffic stops because anything can happen etc.  I mean he’s not wrong and I don’t judge him, but with those fears day one – I don’t know if you can pull off a career as a cop.  We never saw Zach say that kind of stuff even when he was starting out.  I think he needs to pursue a trade school like his brothers in law.

[65mickey]

5 minutes ago, cereality said:

Boring episode.

Trace – lots of people struggle to figure out what they want to do, but interesting that he’s 22 and AFTER “college” is when he’s trying to figure it out.  Don’t most people figure it out before or during college? Guess that “religious studies” or whatever degree from Crown didn’t help him much.  I doubt Gil and Kelly see or want to see how much they have shortchanged him and all the kids with their ridiculous religious homeschooling led by Michaela or Erin or whoever was “teacher” for Trace.  For most people if you struggle to decide what to do but you have 1-2 interests, you can pursue them and see which works out/gets you a job.  For Trace and all fundies really, they can only pursue what they have seen older fundies pursue because they KNOW they have the same minimal education as those guys so if someone would hire them at x, then I can probably get hired too; if no one they know has ever pursued engineering or finance or whatever, well it’s because those heathens running the world won’t hire us so I shouldn’t even waste my time.

And compared to other fundies like the Duggars, Trace is LUCKY because the guys around him have a number of occupations, all of which can make them a living.  He knows a tree guy; a cop; a plumber; an electrician (in training); a fundie pilot; HVAC repair.  So he KNOWS those are options and if he wants to pursue them, there are guys who can tell him how.  If Zach hadn’t taken up a job at the city commissioner’s office out of high school and learned about sheriff training and pursued it, it wouldn’t be an option for any of his brothers either because I 100% believe none of them would ever have figured out that you can go into the sheriff’s office with a HS education, do reserve training and volunteer, and then move to full time and make it a profession with full benefits/insurance/pension etc.  In contrast, the Duggar guys know of NO options beyond sweeping up at dad’s rental properties so they have no idea what to do with themselves – or how to pursue anything but that.

Unsurprisingly they all seem to be riding the Chad horse – seems like every guy in that fam now expects Chad to hire them so they can make $$$$.  Hope Chad has some amazing business generation skills bc the work he brings in is going to have to feed his own family as well as Trace and Jackson’s eventual families and likely a few of the younger bros too like Warden or Isaiah.

I think right now it looks like Zach is being a better father to the younger guys than Gil – we’ve seen him be honest and realistic in directly telling them they need to plan for the future financially.  Gil and Kelly seem to just take the – find a girl, get married, make babies, the Lord will provide – approach.  It was interesting when Z said – go FT as a cop, you work one week on and one week off, in your off weeks, work with Chad and make $$$ -- get your financial stability as a cop and extra $ in construction BEFORE you get a girlfriend and get married.  Trace asked if that’s how he and Whit planned it and Zach was very honest in saying – NO – I wish I had done it that way and talked about financial pressures that he has now with a wife and family that would’ve been easier if he was on more solid financial footing at wedding time. Way to go Gil.  I don’t think you really gave Zach that fatherly advice or helped him make any plan.  So the other boys (the ones who are willing to listen – so not Law and Nathan) are lucky to at least have Zach honestly telling them to make $$$ because they will need it later on.

And agree with the others, Trace isn’t cut out to be a cop.  He’s only 22 – an age when guys are fearless – and he mentioned a TON of times how dangerous the job is, how he doesn’t like approaching cars at traffic stops because anything can happen etc.  I mean he’s not wrong and I don’t judge him, but with those fears day one – I don’t know if you can pull off a career as a cop.  We never saw Zach say that kind of stuff even when he was starting out.  I think he needs to pursue a trade school like his brothers in law.

If Trace is only 22, he has time to figure out what he wants to do with his life. He didn't go to a real college and he does not have a 4 year degree. He doesn't seem to be that into the police work like Zack. My daughter has a degrees in Italian and German. What she does now had nothing to do with her degrees. But you can't take away what a university education gives you. It's a shame that Gil and Kelly did not think that their children deserved what they received in the way of an education. I remember Trace telling his mom that he was not interested in the tree work like Gil. He seems to like working with Chad so maybe that's where he will end up. The girls in this family just have to look pretty and land a guy who will support them. The boys other than Zack are struggling with how to find a career. This is all on Kelly and Gil and what they have modeled for their children. 

[cereality]

A normal person these days doesn’t have to have it figured out at 22, but a fundie who is looking to take a wife (who will be similarly uneducated and bring home no money) in 1-2 years and have the first of his many children 9 months after?? Yeah that kind of guy should be further along in his career goals than dancing for a Dixie Stampede audition one month and working for a brother in law next month. 

Unlike Law and Nathan, I think Trace is looking to marry soon.  He has mentioned a gf/wife; his family is basically doing an infomercial for him and how great of a husband and family man he’ll be.  I think he’s like Zach was – he wants to marry asap; as opposed to Law or Nathan who are ok being celibate for a while longer if it means they can travel and do what they want for a while.

It’s not even the college education that’s the problem here, it’s the fact that Gil and Kelly have shortchanged their kids on K-12 – and all the networks that are built there. I know more than one person who ended up in engineering, often because they excelled in one class like shop or chemistry, physics or calculus and some teacher took notice and told them they could make a living at engineering.  Each of these people had no parents or brothers or brothers in law in engineering – they didn’t know how to pursue such a thing and often weren’t even thinking about/couldn’t afford college.  Yet one teacher was able to convince them to try – whether by starting in community college for pre reqs; or getting scholarships at a local u; or by getting a job and taking 1-2 courses per semester at night until they made enough money to drop the job entirely and finish school.  Actually I know a few people who went into nursing that way too. 

Point is – the Bates have made their kids’ universe so small that there is no one except brothers and brothers in law to show them the way; and I don’t blame the bros and bros in law, I think they’re trying and they mean well but they only know the few fields they are in.  So Trace will ultimately end up in whichever of his brother/brother in laws’ professions that he finds least bad – which I think for him will be construction. 

How sad to set up your kids’ lives so that if one of them dreams of being a dr. or a vet or whatever AND is willing to figure out loans/scholarships/jobs to put him/herself thru financially, it’ll STILL never happens because in all likelihood he/she doesn’t even have the basic chemistry and calculus you’d need to consider these roads, let alone the more complicated things like organic chem and differential equations.

[Squirrely]

STFU with your misogynistic bullshit, Nathan! Grandmas can do whatever they want, including rock climbing. I'll give her props for trying something out of her comfort zone, personally, even if the whole outing was staged for the show. 

Hearing aids are EXPENSIVE. Has Gil managed to grift for those fancy digital aids? Not that I would begrudge a little girl being able to hear, of course, because no way could Gil afford them without some kind of huge discount or donation. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by Squirrely

[floridamom]

I'm thinking because the appointment was filmed and a subject of the episode, UP paid for the hearing aids. Smart thinking Gil; have the show feature it and pay for it. I also agree that I don't begrudge that sweet girl better hearing. I'm glad for Addie. She also has better speech due to them. I'm glad.

Another question..they have showed Carlin 'schooling' the other kids. After she marries, only Katie will be left and she's supposed to be so busy with cosmetology school. Who will 'tutor' the other kids? Will Kelly have to actually do something again; EVERY DAY and take over?

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, floridamom said:

I'm thinking because the appointment was filmed and a subject of the episode, UP paid for the hearing aids. Smart thinking Gil; have the show feature it and pay for it. I also agree that I don't begrudge that sweet girl better hearing. I'm glad for Addie. She also has better speech due to them. 

Another question..they have showed Carlin 'schooling' the other kids. After she marries, only Katie will be left and she's supposed to be so busy with cosmetology school. Who will 'tutor' the other kids? Will Kelly have to actually do something again; EVERY DAY and take over?

I imagine she'll take the Michelle Duggar approach: plonk them down in front of a computer and have them take the same tests over and over until they pass.

Regarding Addie, I noticed the camera lingered on the signage for the doctor's office, so definitely some sort of discount involved, and maybe UP paid the difference. I wonder if Addie does speech therapy? I can't recall if it was mentioned or not.

[Absolom]

Ratings for this week:  210 K viewers and a .05 rating.  It was the 146th cable show of the day.

[sATL]

20 hours ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

Erin, Carlin and Whitney have a new online business venture: Bates Sisters' Boutique.

Michealla the seamstress was left out of this business venture ?

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, cereality said:

Boring episode.

Trace – lots of people struggle to figure out what they want to do, but interesting that he’s 22 and AFTER “college” is when he’s trying to figure it out.  Don’t most people figure it out before or during college? Guess that “religious studies” or whatever degree from Crown didn’t help him much.  I doubt Gil and Kelly see or want to see how much they have shortchanged him and all the kids with their ridiculous religious homeschooling led by Michaela or Erin or whoever was “teacher” for Trace.  For most people if you struggle to decide what to do but you have 1-2 interests, you can pursue them and see which works out/gets you a job.  For Trace and all fundies really, they can only pursue what they have seen older fundies pursue because they KNOW they have the same minimal education as those guys so if someone would hire them at x, then I can probably get hired too; if no one they know has ever pursued engineering or finance or whatever, well it’s because those heathens running the world won’t hire us so I shouldn’t even waste my time.

And compared to other fundies like the Duggars, Trace is LUCKY because the guys around him have a number of occupations, all of which can make them a living.  He knows a tree guy; a cop; a plumber; an electrician (in training); a fundie pilot; HVAC repair.  So he KNOWS those are options and if he wants to pursue them, there are guys who can tell him how.  If Zach hadn’t taken up a job at the city commissioner’s office out of high school and learned about sheriff training and pursued it, it wouldn’t be an option for any of his brothers either because I 100% believe none of them would ever have figured out that you can go into the sheriff’s office with a HS education, do reserve training and volunteer, and then move to full time and make it a profession with full benefits/insurance/pension etc.  In contrast, the Duggar guys know of NO options beyond sweeping up at dad’s rental properties so they have no idea what to do with themselves – or how to pursue anything but that.

Unsurprisingly they all seem to be riding the Chad horse – seems like every guy in that fam now expects Chad to hire them so they can make $$$$.  Hope Chad has some amazing business generation skills bc the work he brings in is going to have to feed his own family as well as Trace and Jackson’s eventual families and likely a few of the younger bros too like Warden or Isaiah.

I think right now it looks like Zach is being a better father to the younger guys than Gil – we’ve seen him be honest and realistic in directly telling them they need to plan for the future financially.  Gil and Kelly seem to just take the – find a girl, get married, make babies, the Lord will provide – approach.  It was interesting when Z said – go FT as a cop, you work one week on and one week off, in your off weeks, work with Chad and make $$$ -- get your financial stability as a cop and extra $ in construction BEFORE you get a girlfriend and get married.  Trace asked if that’s how he and Whit planned it and Zach was very honest in saying – NO – I wish I had done it that way and talked about financial pressures that he has now with a wife and family that would’ve been easier if he was on more solid financial footing at wedding time. Way to go Gil.  I don’t think you really gave Zach that fatherly advice or helped him make any plan.  So the other boys (the ones who are willing to listen – so not Law and Nathan) are lucky to at least have Zach honestly telling them to make $$$ because they will need it later on.

And agree with the others, Trace isn’t cut out to be a cop.  He’s only 22 – an age when guys are fearless – and he mentioned a TON of times how dangerous the job is, how he doesn’t like approaching cars at traffic stops because anything can happen etc.  I mean he’s not wrong and I don’t judge him, but with those fears day one – I don’t know if you can pull off a career as a cop.  We never saw Zach say that kind of stuff even when he was starting out.  I think he needs to pursue a trade school like his brothers in law.

13 hours ago, cereality said:

A normal person these days doesn’t have to have it figured out at 22, but a fundie who is looking to take a wife (who will be similarly uneducated and bring home no money) in 1-2 years and have the first of his many children 9 months after?? Yeah that kind of guy should be further along in his career goals than dancing for a Dixie Stampede audition one month and working for a brother in law next month. 

Unlike Law and Nathan, I think Trace is looking to marry soon.  He has mentioned a gf/wife; his family is basically doing an infomercial for him and how great of a husband and family man he’ll be.  I think he’s like Zach was – he wants to marry asap; as opposed to Law or Nathan who are ok being celibate for a while longer if it means they can travel and do what they want for a while.

It’s not even the college education that’s the problem here, it’s the fact that Gil and Kelly have shortchanged their kids on K-12 – and all the networks that are built there. I know more than one person who ended up in engineering, often because they excelled in one class like shop or chemistry, physics or calculus and some teacher took notice and told them they could make a living at engineering.  Each of these people had no parents or brothers or brothers in law in engineering – they didn’t know how to pursue such a thing and often weren’t even thinking about/couldn’t afford college.  Yet one teacher was able to convince them to try – whether by starting in community college for pre reqs; or getting scholarships at a local u; or by getting a job and taking 1-2 courses per semester at night until they made enough money to drop the job entirely and finish school.  Actually I know a few people who went into nursing that way too. 

Point is – the Bates have made their kids’ universe so small that there is no one except brothers and brothers in law to show them the way; and I don’t blame the bros and bros in law, I think they’re trying and they mean well but they only know the few fields they are in.  So Trace will ultimately end up in whichever of his brother/brother in laws’ professions that he finds least bad – which I think for him will be construction. 

How sad to set up your kids’ lives so that if one of them dreams of being a dr. or a vet or whatever AND is willing to figure out loans/scholarships/jobs to put him/herself thru financially, it’ll STILL never happens because in all likelihood he/she doesn’t even have the basic chemistry and calculus you’d need to consider these roads, let alone the more complicated things like organic chem and differential equations.

Well said! 

[IndianPaintbrush]

2 hours ago, sATL said:

Michealla the seamstress was left out of this business venture ?

Weird, I know. Assuming they will sell her merch even if she's not an owner.

[sATL]

7 hours ago, floridamom said:

I'm thinking because the appointment was filmed and a subject of the episode, UP paid for the hearing aids. Smart thinking Gil; have the show feature it and pay for it. I also agree that I don't begrudge that sweet girl better hearing. I'm glad for Addie. She also has better speech due to them. I'm glad.

Another question..they have showed Carlin 'schooling' the other kids. After she marries, only Katie will be left and she's supposed to be so busy with cosmetology school. Who will 'tutor' the other kids? Will Kelly have to actually do something again; EVERY DAY and take over?

as shown on a recent episode of the duggars - a son-in-law for teaching ... I'm sure ole Chad can put together a pretty good hands-on construction math assignment .. figure out measurements, tools, permits, materials, etc

[sATL]

19 hours ago, cereality said:

A normal person these days doesn’t have to have it figured out at 22, but a fundie who is looking to take a wife (who will be similarly uneducated and bring home no money) in 1-2 years and have the first of his many children 9 months after?? Yeah that kind of guy should be further along in his career goals than dancing for a Dixie Stampede audition one month and working for a brother in law next month. 

Unlike Law and Nathan, I think Trace is looking to marry soon.  He has mentioned a gf/wife; his family is basically doing an infomercial for him and how great of a husband and family man he’ll be.  I think he’s like Zach was – he wants to marry asap; as opposed to Law or Nathan who are ok being celibate for a while longer if it means they can travel and do what they want for a while.

It’s not even the college education that’s the problem here, it’s the fact that Gil and Kelly have shortchanged their kids on K-12 – and all the networks that are built there. I know more than one person who ended up in engineering, often because they excelled in one class like shop or chemistry, physics or calculus and some teacher took notice and told them they could make a living at engineering.  Each of these people had no parents or brothers or brothers in law in engineering – they didn’t know how to pursue such a thing and often weren’t even thinking about/couldn’t afford college.  Yet one teacher was able to convince them to try – whether by starting in community college for pre reqs; or getting scholarships at a local u; or by getting a job and taking 1-2 courses per semester at night until they made enough money to drop the job entirely and finish school.  Actually I know a few people who went into nursing that way too. 

Point is – the Bates have made their kids’ universe so small that there is no one except brothers and brothers in law to show them the way; and I don’t blame the bros and bros in law, I think they’re trying and they mean well but they only know the few fields they are in.  So Trace will ultimately end up in whichever of his brother/brother in laws’ professions that he finds least bad – which I think for him will be construction. 

How sad to set up your kids’ lives so that if one of them dreams of being a dr. or a vet or whatever AND is willing to figure out loans/scholarships/jobs to put him/herself thru financially, it’ll STILL never happens because in all likelihood he/she doesn’t even have the basic chemistry and calculus you’d need to consider these roads, let alone the more complicated things like organic chem and differential equations.

It also k-12 where one who is looking into trade , interest and talent begins to show. For example the tween/teen who takes interests in food/restaurant might look into going to a culinary program. Most the cosmetologist I know, were fooling with hair/makeup in high school . Katie seems to be doing the pgm as a "last choice" as opposed to a passion. 

What gets me about the parents they had a decent education. Granted everyone has/had grips about the school system (public or pvt) they went to, however everyone used the experience as stepping stone to the next. What worse Gil/Kelly met in a traditional college - chemistry class I believe. Why deny your children the opportunity - when you lived to tell the story, just b/c you changed religious practices.

I can't wait until the grand-Bates and grand-Duggers (esp. Jinger & Jill b/c of their husbands education) are school age to see what their parents decided. I think Josh's offspring are part of the family homeschool, though. Since Zach/Whitney have the oldest grandchild , I guess we will know soon.

Zach might be also getting his "eyes opened" on formal education by being at work and reading the employee handbook. I'm sure there is some kind of tuition reimbursement (if taken at an accredited  location) and to promote up , most peace officers do have more than high school/GED.

Edited March 23, 2019 by sATL

[RebeccatheWriter]

14 hours ago, sATL said:

It also k-12 where one who is looking into trade , interest and talent begins to show. For example the tween/teen who takes interests in food/restaurant might look into going to a culinary program. Most the cosmetologist I know, were fooling with hair/makeup in high school . Katie seems to be doing the pgm as a "last choice" as opposed to a passion. 

What gets me about the parents they had a decent education. Granted everyone has/had grips about the school system (public or pvt) they went to, however everyone used the experience as stepping stone to the next. What worse Gil/Kelly met in a traditional college - chemistry class I believe. Why deny your children the opportunity - when you lived to tell the story, just b/c you changed religious practices.

I can't wait until the grand-Bates and grand-Duggers (esp. Jinger & Jill b/c of their husbands education) are school age to see what their parents decided. I think Josh's offspring are part of the family homeschool, though. Since Zach/Whitney have the oldest grandchild , I guess we will know soon.

Zach might be also getting his "eyes opened" on formal education by being at work and reading the employee handbook. I'm sure there is some kind of tuition reimbursement (if taken at an accredited  location) and to promote up , most peace officers do have more than high school/GED.

Kelly Jo worked as a work study student in the chem lab while Gil had a chem class at Anderson. While I wouldn't go there, Carson Newman where they eventually went to school, is not a bad school at all. It is a private, Christian College, but it is fully accredited regionally and nationally, including all its programs. 

I'm not anti home school education, which is usually a tip off I'm about to slam it. I'm not. I don't like the way the Bates and Duggars do it. From my own school experience, I have had good teachers and horrible teachers. I'm in a grad school class right now with a horrible professor. I am muddling through though because I know this summer I have two awesome ones. Pretending that Kelly Jo does the teaching, these kids never hear a different perspective and never hold an opposing thought in their heads. Other homeschool families join co-ops and enjoy communicating with each other one day a week or more. They share the responsibilities of teaching by having parents switch off and teach their expertise or passion. The Bates have Mom, workbooks, and whatever daughter is over 18 and single. We've seen that the girls who are charged with education of the younger ones are typically bossing them around and insisting they do it without truly understanding how to work with children. Carlin spraying water on the boys who wouldn't get up in the morning springs to mind. The Duggars have "hired tutors," but typically these are other young women brought up in the same lifestyle who haven't gotten married yet. I have yet to see evidence that any of these families bring in people who are actually skilled. 

Kelly Jo may have minored in special education, but that's hardly enough to individualize curriculum for 19 students. Her daughters, who have been taking on over that until marriage and around their own classes, are not even that well trained. As the grandchildren grow, we're going to see the effects of a trickle down education. Some of these people aren't that smart; nor do they have the basic skills that most successful adults have acquired. Now they are going to attempt to teach their own children? That's not going to go well. People talk about generational poverty, but we're about to embark on generational ignorance. So far Whitney and Erin have both said they plan to homeschool. It is assumed Alyssa will simply because of how she was raised and her father in law's views on the subject. I don't see any of the Bates new parents bucking the system on that yet. Tori's probably best prepared with her education from Crown, but we'll see on that. 

Other than music, Gil and Kelly have not really allowed or encouraged their children to learn anything of significance while K-12 age. Some of the boys are now working with Chad, but that is hardly a formal program to explore the career. Not to mention there are some insurance and legal issues with minors on a construction site I highly doubt they consider or worry about really. Vocational programs in schools and apprenticeship programs are very careful about such things. Josie is the one that studied cosmetology first, but in interviews admitted that it was Carlin who spent more time doing other people's hair and makeup. Tori even said for her wedding she preferred Carlin to do her hair because she had "more experience." Katie's less into it than Josie so I can just imagine that she simply picked from the available choices at Crown and went with one that seemed like it might work. Josie and Katie both seem less into children than their sisters so education was out. They neither one seem as passionate about music as some of the siblings, so that was out. Ministry and the other trade programs (automotive repair, welding and HVAC) are not a choice for women typically in these families. That left the biblical business program or cosmetology. 

[BitterApple]

The funny thing is, I wonder if the marrieds even truly want to homeschool or whether they're just too scared to go against Kelly and Gil. Zach and Whit surprise me most of all, because they've worked in the real world and should be well aware of how substandard education makes it difficult to compete. 

Alyssa doesn't surprise me. She's not the sharpest tool and I'm sure she figures her daughters will be married at 19 like she was, so they don't need much beyond the basics. 

I think Erin will go batshit crazy. Assuming she'll be pregnant before the year's out, I can't see her trying to maintain her coiffure, do her recipes,  her Pinterest decorating and homeschool three active kids in that tiny house. She'll start aging as rapidly as Chad. 

Tori's so lazy, she'll probably half-ass it and complain the whole time.

[tabloidlover]

Tori will want to drop her kids off at the main house ala the Duggars 

[Sew Sumi]

Tori lives 4 hours away from Chez Bates. 

[tabloidlover]

Well then, I guess that won’t work then.   She’ll figure something out, lol

[sATL]

5 hours ago, tabloidlover said:

Well then, I guess that won’t work then.   She’ll figure something out, lol

skype, web-ex, etc

[RebeccatheWriter]

On 3/23/2019 at 12:14 PM, sATL said:

Michealla the seamstress was left out of this business venture ?

I find that interesting too. 

None of these young women have business education or experience, except maybe Whitney who sells real estate part-time. They are using the same web designer that the family always uses and Taryn to do photography (how will people know what they are buying through the blur?).  I'm wondering if they are planning to do a drop shipping business where they sell the items, order them from someone else, and then have them shipped to the customer rather than having actual inventory. That's a bit easier to manage, but still not as simple as they would need it. Not to mention that market is really full these days. Unless you have a super special niche, it's nearly impossible to make a dent. Clothing is an especially crowded market place - even modest modern. 

I'd say it would be helpful for them to hire people who know how to do this, but this family doesn't do that. They simply bring on someone they know from church who might have seen whatever skill they need. 

I don't see this going well, but whatever. It's just another vanity project for them like Erin's or Lawson's recording/music careers.

[RebeccatheWriter]

14 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Tori lives 4 hours away from Chez Bates. 

They do for now, but apparently, Bobby's not at the job he had in Hendersonville any longer (no longer on the website anyway). He's more likely to find work in the larger area of Nashville, but if Kelly Jo sees an option to get them back in Rocky Top...How long until they retreat and find him a job in Knoxville or even working for Gil? It would also mean that Tori could "work" for Kelly Jo and take over the education of the younger kids with Kade on her hip. After all, she has that education degree. It's not like she has to actually teach. The kids do workbooks and the teens watch videos and answer questions online. From what they have shown, the Bates and Duggars treat teaching as simply keeping people on task. 

21 hours ago, BitterApple said:

The funny thing is, I wonder if the marrieds even truly want to homeschool or whether they're just too scared to go against Kelly and Gil. Zach and Whit surprise me most of all, because they've worked in the real world and should be well aware of how substandard education makes it difficult to compete. 

Alyssa doesn't surprise me. She's not the sharpest tool and I'm sure she figures her daughters will be married at 19 like she was, so they don't need much beyond the basics. 

I think Erin will go batshit crazy. Assuming she'll be pregnant before the year's out, I can't see her trying to maintain her coiffure, do her recipes,  her Pinterest decorating and homeschool three active kids in that tiny house. She'll start aging as rapidly as Chad. 

Tori's so lazy, she'll probably half-ass it and complain the whole time.

1

Erin and Chad are back to making noise about building a house and looking for land. I've got $20 that says it will be a storyline this year. Another pregnancy could be the catalyst on that, as they'll be desperate to get that done before she gives birth. Make it a storyline on the show and they'll get financial help getting it done. 

I would hope that Zach would not want to homeschool, but there is still that people pleaser in Whitney. She may see homeschooling as an area to get approval from Kelly Jo as being a good enough wife for her oldest boy. She might have an easier time of it if some of the other older boys were married and there were other daughters-in-law. Right now she kind of sticks out there as being a mother of two Bates, but not having been raised as a Bates or even in IBLP. 

[Absolom]

2 hours ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

They do for now, but apparently, Bobby's not at the job he had in Hendersonville any longer (no longer on the website anyway).

That didn't last very long.  I wonder what happened.  I agree the job prospects are much better in Nashville.

[BitterApple]

Apparently, Chad created an Instagram page for his new construction business. Kelly has it up on the Bateseses' family page, showing a picture of Chad with Trace and Warden on a job site.

I'm sure potential clients will be thrilled to know unlicensed teenagers are doing the labor. Smart move, Chad.....

[sATL]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

That didn't last very long.  I wonder what happened.  I agree the job prospects are much better in Nashville.

A minister got RIFed ( reduction in  force ) ?? With at most a year on the job? Church went  under? 😁

17 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Apparently, Chad created an Instagram page for his new construction business. Kelly has it up on the Bateseses' family page, showing a picture of Chad with Trace and Warden on a job site.

I'm sure potential clients will be thrilled to know unlicensed teenagers are doing the labor. Smart move, Chad.....

And possibly  under or uninsured.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

They do for now, but apparently, Bobby's not at the job he had in Hendersonville any longer (no longer on the website anyway). He's more likely to find work in the larger area of Nashville, but if Kelly Jo sees an option to get them back in Rocky Top...How long until they retreat and find him a job in Knoxville or even working for Gil? It would also mean that Tori could "work" for Kelly Jo and take over the education of the younger kids with Kade on her hip. After all, she has that education degree. It's not like she has to actually teach. The kids do workbooks and the teens watch videos and answer questions online. From what they have shown, the Bates and Duggars treat teaching as simply keeping people on task. 

Erin and Chad are back to making noise about building a house and looking for land. I've got $20 that says it will be a storyline this year. Another pregnancy could be the catalyst on that, as they'll be desperate to get that done before she gives birth. Make it a storyline on the show and they'll get financial help getting it done. 

I would hope that Zach would not want to homeschool, but there is still that people pleaser in Whitney. She may see homeschooling as an area to get approval from Kelly Jo as being a good enough wife for her oldest boy. She might have an easier time of it if some of the other older boys were married and there were other daughters-in-law. Right now she kind of sticks out there as being a mother of two Bates, but not having been raised as a Bates or even in IBLP. 

Whitney probably would go along with homeschooling for all those reasons but whatever happened that caused her to ended up with Owens that may also factor in. She feels so bad and blames herself for whatever happen. She might think that homeschool will keep her kids on the right track. She might think that public school or even a Christian school might influence her kids down the wrong path or make bad decisions like she did or she thinks she did. 

[floridamom]

andromeda331: I don't understand part of your post....who or what is Owens that Whitney ended up with? (Don't know how to put your text here.) Thanks.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, floridamom said:

andromeda331: I don't understand part of your post....who or what is Owens that Whitney ended up with? (Don't know how to put your text here.) Thanks.

 Owens was the family Whitney lived with for awhile when she was a teenager. John and Lydia Owens they have 11 kids. I don't know how long or if she was ever formally adopted, foster or what. But she was living with them when she met Zach, courted and married him. They paid for her wedding and many of the Owens kids were in her wedding. Then suddenly they were gone and her parents were back in the picture and there for Bradley's birth. The Owens haven't been seen with her since nor any sign she's seen them since. No idea what happened, why she was with the Owens, or why she suddenly split with them and went back with her parents. The vow renewal was the first time Whitney said anything about it which wasn't much. Mostly crying and blaming herself. There is some wonder if Kelly had anything to do with since Gothard is very against adoption pro bio parents. 

[RebeccatheWriter]

18 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Apparently, Chad created an Instagram page for his new construction business. Kelly has it up on the Bateseses' family page, showing a picture of Chad with Trace and Warden on a job site.

I'm sure potential clients will be thrilled to know unlicensed teenagers are doing the labor. Smart move, Chad.....

I have cousins who do that kind of work and starting their own businesses. None of them are formally trained or licensed. They just "know" how to do things from having watched others. Call me crazy, but I prefer to hire licensed and bonded trades people to do my plumbing, electrical, and carpentry. It's a contentious point in my family, as I call in professionals and the rest of the extended family will call the cousins. But I sure as heck don't want a 15/16 year old doing the work. 

Let's say Chad hires actual electricians and plumbers. He's still got an insurance issue with minors on site. If there was a mistake, damage, or an accident that damaged or destroyed the home while he was working on it, the insurance company could refuse to pay if they got word a 15/16 year old was working on the project. Given that this family is so cheap (thrifty), I'm doubting Chad would have the common sense to acquire extra protection that would cover it. It's great if I'm wrong. But it seems like a good way to get to get in trouble and lose your business. Gil skirted this in his tree business. 

Based on federal regulations, minors cannot do tasks (not a full list) :

Driving a motor vehicle • Operating power-driven woodworking machines (including drills and nail guns) • Operating forklifts, cranes, hoists or elevators • Operating power-driven metal forming, punching, and shearing machines • Operating power-driven circular saws, band saws, and guillotine shears • Wrecking, demolition, and shipbreaking operations • Roofing operations • Excavation operations

[iluvobx]

23 hours ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

They do for now, but apparently, Bobby's not at the job he had in Hendersonville any longer (no longer on the website anyway). He's more likely to find work in the larger area of Nashville, but if Kelly Jo sees an option to get them back in Rocky Top...How long until they retreat and find him a job in Knoxville or even working for Gil? It would also mean that Tori could "work" for Kelly Jo and take over the education of the younger kids with Kade on her hip. After all, she has that education degree. It's not like she has to actually teach. The kids do workbooks and the teens watch videos and answer questions online. From what they have shown, the Bates and Duggars treat teaching as simply keeping people on task. 

Erin and Chad are back to making noise about building a house and looking for land. I've got $20 that says it will be a storyline this year. Another pregnancy could be the catalyst on that, as they'll be desperate to get that done before she gives birth. Make it a storyline on the show and they'll get financial help getting it done. 

I would hope that Zach would not want to homeschool, but there is still that people pleaser in Whitney. She may see homeschooling as an area to get approval from Kelly Jo as being a good enough wife for her oldest boy. She might have an easier time of it if some of the other older boys were married and there were other daughters-in-law. Right now she kind of sticks out there as being a mother of two Bates, but not having been raised as a Bates or even in IBLP. 

 

Hendersonville is right outside of Nashville.  Since I lived in that area, it has grown and it more of a suburb to Nashville than when Johnny Cash lived there.

[RebeccatheWriter]

3 hours ago, iluvobx said:

Hendersonville is right outside of Nashville.  Since I lived in that area, it has grown and it more of a suburb to Nashville than when Johnny Cash lived there.

I grew up in TN. I just meant that logically it makes sense for him to stay in Hendersonville and search for a job in the wider Nashville area rather than pick up and move back to the Anderson County/Knoxville area. One can always move after finding a job. I just meant that staying there kept his options open with Nashville and the surrounding area. There are lots of churches and nonprofits in that area that would be good places to find work for him. 

[tabloidlover]

Do we have any idea why he no longer works there?  It doesn’t seem that he was there very long.

[Sew Sumi]

Michael and Brandon are moving (back in her case) to TN so she can attend nursing school in the fall. I'm pretty sure Brandon can do his job remotely, since it's graphics-related.

[BitterApple]

It's great Michael's continuing her education, but the cynical part of me thinks there's major problems behind the scenes and they're hoping the move to TN will provide a distraction. Michael will be so busy caring for everybody else's kids there won't be time to think about the lack of her own. 

[andromeda331]

Michael's probably happy about it. But I'm horrified because now she'll be raising the rest of her mother's kids. Darn it Brandon! Why didn't you say no? I'm also curious why Bobby left his job too. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by andromeda331

[gunderda]

On 3/25/2019 at 10:23 AM, RebeccatheWriter said:

I don't see this going well, but whatever. It's just another vanity project for them like Erin's or Lawson's recording/music careers.

I think if they can keep it going and treat it as a real business (unless the Teen moms who roll out their shops and then lose interest in a few months) I think it could be a long term thing for them.  They have enough fans that it should take off at first - they just need to keep with it