Last Tango In Halifax - General Discussion

[maraleia]

If you want to read the recaps from AfterEllen or any other news about the show visit this link http://www.afterellen.com/tag/last_tango_in_halifax/

 

As @Quilt Fairy mentioned below this link is very spoilery.

[Quilt Fairy]

Just an FYI, the above link will contain spoilers if you are watching the U.S. airing of the show on PBS.

[izabella]

Wow, Gillian is still taking John's calls. She shouldn't be stringing Robbie along.

 

This has disaster written all over it. 

 

Gillian is very good at beating herself up for the stupid things she does after she does them.  But she really needs to apply that line of thought before she does anything.  It's entertaining for now, but I hope she makes some better choices at some point or she will become unwatchable.

[Quilt Fairy]

They said at the end of the show last night that both seasons are already available on Dvd.

Season 2 DVDs are only available for pre-order in the U.S.

 

Sorry for the double post, I was trying to add this to my earlier one and messed up.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Quilt Fairy

[dcalley]

What did Celia say, "Raff's put a girl in the pudding?"

In the pudding club. Gee, without any context I would have thought that was a club I'd like to join, but I guess not!

 

I'm curious why Kate isn't considering adoption since she's had 4 miscarriages. 

Yes, or why she isn't considering a visit to the doctor! So...someone's going to bring up the possibility of Kate and Caroline adopting Raff's maybe-baby, right?

 

What did Celia call Raff and Gillian?  A muck luck?

That's what I heard, but I don't really know what it means, other than it's not nice.

 

Caroline said something about wanting to keep the house for the sake of the boys, but their school wouldn't change, and they're not going to be at home that much longer, I don't think. It just seems like a really bad idea to stay there. So many bad ideas and decisions on this show!

[LittleIggy]

I thought mukluks were Eskimo boots! :-)

[JudyObscure]

Those boys have bigger problems than changing house. Imagine going to a school where your mother is "the boss," and everyone knows she's sleeping with one of the teachers.

[Milz]

Not to mention their father bringing home his mistress and having audible drunken sex with her while they are in the house.

 

It doesn't seem like either side of the family cares too much about how their decisions impact on children/grandchildren

[DHDancer]

Re the "I want a baby" thing.  I had a real problem with the discussion about donors -- does Kate not realize (a) there is such things as sperm banks, and (b) what are her plans as regards parental rights issues with the potential father if she uses a friend?

 

But yeah, this might be set up as a home for the new baby girl.

 

On a different subject, I'm so glad to see Paul Copley re-enter the show -- love him.

 

And Gillian, sorry, she's a whack job  "I think I overreacted"  Really?  You think?  Sigh.

[Nadine]

Not to mention their father bringing home his mistress and having audible drunken sex with her while they are in the house.

It doesn't seem like either side of the family cares too much about how their decisions impact on children/grandchildren

Agree. All the grandchildren have copped it from both sides.

Gillian should have been told about Allen's condition since she is his daughter and especially after Celia told Caroline.

[Milz]

Gillian should have been told about Allen's condition since she is his daughter and especially after Celia told Caroline.

 

You just know that will blow up in Celia's face when Gillian finds out.

[HelenBaby]

Yeah, why is it so apparent that she has a stick up her ass? I know she's got problems and has a certain rep to uphold, but couldn't the writers make her a little kinder?

[LittleIggy]

Agree. All the grandchildren have copped it from both sides.

Gillian should have been told about Allen's condition since she is his daughter and especially after Celia told Caroline.

And told Caroline that she could tell Kate!

[Milz]

How nice. Celia's side of the family knows Allan can drop dead at any minute, but Allan's side of the family doesn't.

 

Something tells me that if things were different and Celia and Allan had married all those years ago, they would have been d-i-v-o-r-c-e-d all those years ago too.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I know this is terrible, but I think that Celia is a nasty bitch.  I've basically hated her since she was in that huge fight with her daughter last season and said all of those awful things to her.  Her suggesting that Gillian called Alan and had him come over to talk about Raff was really some ploy to get money out of him (while also bragging that she was a woman of means and wealth in the same episode) and saying "perhaps they're Christians" to explain why Raff's girlfriend's parents weren't answering Gillian's phone calls?  Awful!  Yes, Celia, this is the 21st century and sometimes people do have children out of wedlock.  She just seemed so snooty about that whole situation and I get the impression that whatever term she used to describe how Raff was just like his mother was something pretty offensive.

 

Alan was such a sweet and lovely man and I feel like Celia is having such a negative impact on him.  It was just so unlike him when he told Gillian last episode that she was a disappointment to her mother.  It has to be very difficult on Gillian to be so close to her father and go from seeing him every day to barely even speaking to him on the phone. 

 

 

[DropTheSoap]

From what I've seen, Kate is far more invested in the relationship than Caroline.

I can see everyone piling on Gillian except Alan; that seemed out of character given their relationship as portrayed and how he said during the prior season he's learned to not judge Gillian.

Then again, Alan does seem to follow Celia's lead in many things.

[maraleia]

Gillian is upset after Celia inadvertently lets slip a huge personal secret she has kept since she was fifteen. Alan and Gillian's already relationship hits the rocks as he distances himself from her even motre. Kate is made to feel awkward around Lawrence, who finds his mother's new relationship hard to accept.

[Ketzel]

Oh dear, this is getting grimmer and more  complex every episode, and I am getting confused. I may have missed something last season, but why did Robbie do a 180 with regard to Gillian in the first place? How did he go from believing she murdered his beloved brother to sort of asking her to marry him? Why on earth would Gillian decide to confide anything at all to John? Is the house Alan is now planning to sell to Kimberly (another daughter?) the farmhouse, or does he own another house? Has Ellie abandoned the baby? I can't decide if Celia is slightly stupid or deliberately malicious -- who talks about the deeply personal details of her daughter-in-law's life, and conflicts with her father, to the daughter-in-law's boyfriend, whom she barely knows?

Edited July 14, 2014 by Ketzel

[Luckylyn]

I can't decide if Celia is slightly stupid or deliberately malicious -- who talks about the deeply personal details of her daughter-in-law's life, and conflicts with her father, to the daughter-in-law's boyfriend, whom she barely knows?

Seriously, anyone with half a brain would know not to mention such delicate personal information.  I thought what Celia did was thoughtless, and she seems to have a nasty streak that makes her so unlikeable to me.  She's the sort to cheerily stab you in the back and be mystified the wound hurts you.

 

I get that Gillian is a major fuck up who makes horrible decisions, and so I can get Alan reaching a point of being fed up.  Still, in this situation he should have been on Gillian's side because telling Robbie about the abortion was just wrong.  Alan was so protective of Caroline when Celia was being unfair to her and so I don't understand his lack of care for his daughter when she's on the receiving end of Celia's thoughtless cruelty.  Celia looks down on Gillian and doesn't seem to have even basic empathy for her.  Caroline shows more care for Gillian than Alan and Celia at this point. I feel like Alan should be more torn.

[Quilt Fairy]

Is the house Alan is now planning to sell to Kimberly (another daughter?) the farmhouse, or does he own another house?

Well, this question I can answer. He also owns a small cottage somewhere that he rents out to a young couple. At one point last season Celia asked whether they could live there once they got married but Alan was reluctant to give his tenants notice. Asking them if they want to buy the house is one of the few suggestions Celia has made that I agree with.

 

The 'bungalow' (really not what I would consider a bungalow, hence the quotes) they visited had a spectacular view but I thought it was very ugly.

 

This was a pretty grim episode.  While Celia shouldn't have told Robbie about Gillian's abortion, Gillian is just flying off the handle at everything Celia does. Celia apologized (very sincerely, I thought) and she can't do more than that.

 

I was waiting for someone to suggest that Kate adopt baby Flossie, 2 problems solved in one fell swoop. Really concerned about who dies in the next episode.

[izabella]

Alan was so protective of Caroline when Celia was being unfair to her and so I don't understand his lack of care for his daughter when she's on the receiving end of Celia's thoughtless cruelty.

 

I guess Alan sees Gillian as a murderer.  Can't wait to see when Celia chooses to blurt that out to Raff.

[LittleIggy]

I'm getting sick of Celia opening her big mouth and blabbing personal stuff. I'm confused about Alan's story that Gillian killed her husband. Gillian told John that she didn't call the ambo, which we heard last season. And last season, Alan seemed to be very close to Gillian. If he knew she was a killer and it was gnawing at him, why was he close to her, even living there?

I feel sorry for Laurence being subjected to his parents' nastiness. Yeah, I hope Kate gets to adopt Flossie since her mother doesn't give a rat's ass about her.

[Milz]

Agree with all the comments. However, I hope Flossie isn't adopted by Kate and Caroline-----no need to mess up that life anymore than it's already messed up, since Ellie seems to have done a runner.

 

I loved it with Gillian was looking at Flossie and the Flossie was looking at Gillian. That baby has a very expressive face.

[izabella]

So Ellie ran away...to her mother's house.  And her mother is supposedly well-off in a high paying job, as is her husband.  (And damn, Celia has crap to say about everyone!  "Ellie's mom has a high-paying job where she pushes paper off her desk onto someone else's..." )

 

So why can't Ellie's parents hire a nanny to care for the baby while Elllie and Raff are in school, and then they can learn to take care of the baby in the evenings and weekends.  Why is this all on Gillian and Raff when they have no financial resources but Ellie's parents do?

 

And Ellie really had no idea she was pregnant?  Not buying it.  She would have noticed she didn't have her period.  Maybe she was too busy playing video games to notice she didn't get her period for months?

[SonofaBiscuit]

With each episode, I hate Celia more and more.  I have to wonder if this is what the show is going for or?  She's the absolute worst!  After Celia had told Robbie about Gillian's abortion, it was like Alan and Celia were only sorry about it because they hadn't known that Robbie was the father.  I'm terrified for Gillian now that Celia knows that she finished off her husband after his suicide attempt.  Oops, maybe Celia will blab that one to Robbie too and he can arrest Gillian since he's a cop.

 

I also didn't like Celia telling Caroline that Gillian has been a nuisance to Alan her entire life.  She's made plenty of mistakes, sure, but who hasn't?  She seemed to have a great relationship with her father before Celia came along and now she's a big disappointment to Alan??  You are the absolute worst, Celia!

Edited July 14, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[izabella]

She seemed to have a great relationship with her father before Celia came along and now she's a big disappointment to Alan??  You are the absolute worst, Celia!

 

I agree that Celia is a piece of work, but Alan is an adult and is making his own choices.  He seems only too ready to kick Gillian under the bus.  I guess Gillian was a good enough daughter when she was taking care of him and he had no one else, but now that he has Celia, he doesn't need Gillian and certainly doesn't seem to want her in his life.

[Milz]

I agree that Celia is a piece of work, but Alan is an adult and is making his own choices.  He seems only too ready to kick Gillian under the bus.  I guess Gillian was a good enough daughter when she was taking care of him and he had no one else, but now that he has Celia, he doesn't need Gillian and certainly doesn't seem to want her in his life.

 

 

Well said. Celia and Alan deserve each other.....

[DHDancer]

Celia is very much of her era and seems to enjoy creating drama to add interest to her otherwise dull life.  But in this instance she really did appear to be contrite with the Robbie bit -- I suspect she over-estimated the relationship between Gillian and Robbie. I think it's interesting that we now know more about Robbie -- there's a history there with Gillian that precedes Eddie and further complicates the story.

 

From Alan's "in your face" moment with Gillian, I got the impression she has a very very long history of making bad judgment calls, especially about men, and probably about life in general, and Alan had always been there for her: now he's tired of it and won't take any smack talk about Celia (you have to remember here that he married Gillian's mother as a runner-up so there has to be some pain there too).  AND let's face it, that opinion was completely reinforced with Gillian unloading everything to prime enabler/biggest gossip on earth John:  what the heck was she thinking??? 

 

I thought Carolyn's call to Gillian was nicely handled and had me breathing a sigh of relief!  Cut to Gillian and John,ugh!

Edited July 14, 2014 by DHDancer

[Brattinella]

I think it matters not that Celia did not know that Robbie was the father.  She should not have told that secret to ANYBODY!  I now officially hate both Celia and Caroline equally.  What a dismal, depressing woman Celia is.  This show is changing from a sweet show to something dark.  Man.

[izabella]

AND let's face it, that opinion was completely reinforced with Gillian unloading everything to prime enabler/biggest gossip on earth John:  what the heck was she thinking???

 

Gillian doesn't think.  She's a desperate woman making desperate decisions.

 

Her dad seems to have abandoned her, Robbie left her, so I think she's hoping that John would be her savior by pouring money into the farm.  Some part of her might even believe John cares for her when no one else seems to at this point. 

[DHDancer]

Her dad seems to have abandoned her, Robbie left her, so I think she's hoping that John would be her savior by pouring money into the farm.  Some part of her might even believe John cares for her when no one else seems to at this point. 

 

I know she can't see John "360" like we have but still, his life is a mess (no job, no wife, really no home) and somehow he's going to come up with 400 grand or something to invest in her little farm?  Oh Gillian, Gillian.

 

Mind you Caroline continues to enable him by not throwing him out of the house.

 

I really wish I could convince myself that all the drama is manufactured for the show, but unfortunately I've met too many people whose lives are similar soap operas!

[JudyObscure]

AND let's face it, that opinion was completely reinforced with Gillian unloading everything to prime enabler/biggest gossip on earth John: what the heck was she thinking???

Not only will John tell everyone, he'll write it in a novel. Speaking of which, when did, "She has the body of a sixteen year-old boy," become a compliment?

[izabella]

Speaking of which, when did, "She has the body of a sixteen year-old boy," become a compliment?

 

When compared to aging, overripe fruit?

[Quilt Fairy]

I'm terrified for Gillian now that Celia knows that she finished off her husband after his suicide attempt.

They're doing a variation of Roshomon wrt the events of Eddie's suicide, i.e., little bits and pieces from different people who are sometimes withholding information and some times actively lying. What I'm getting is not that Gillian finished off Eddie after his botched suicide attempt (and for some reason I have no problem with that), it's that Alan is afraid that there was no suicide attempt and Gillian out and out murdered Eddie. And it's not just Celia that knows now. John knows a certain amount, although we don't know what version of events Gillian told John, and we know how well he can keep his tongue.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Oh, OK.  That whole sequence where Gillian was talking about Eddie's death was confusing and I deleted it off the DVR so I can't go and watch it again.  I thought that Alan had said that Gillian had found Eddie after his suicide attempt, but he wasn't dead so Gillian hit him with a block of wood to put him out of his misery.  Then I thought that Alan told Celia that he had his doubts whether it was really a suicide attempt at all.  I think that all Gillian told John was that she didn't call the ambulance right away and Eddie died.  That was consistent with the story last season as well...nothing about hitting him on the head with a block of wood the last time I heard the story!   

[peeayebee]

What I'm getting is not that Gillian finished off Eddie after his botched suicide attempt (and for some reason I have no problem with that), it's that Alan is afraid that there was no suicide attempt and Gillian out and out murdered Eddie.

 

Holy moly, when he said that, I was shocked. How will their relationship recover from this? How will the SHOW recover from this?

 

That being said, although there's lots of darkness and misery, I appreciate how real these people seem. One scene or part I was particularly struck by was when Raff was in his room crying and covering his head with his pillow. He's just a boy who's become a father. His panic, anxiety, and confusion about his situation is something I don't think I've seen on TV or in film, not quite like this.

 

I agree with others about Celia. She's my least favorite character. I love everyone's assessment of her here.

 

After Celia had told Robbie about Gillian's abortion, it was like Alan and Celia were only sorry about it because they hadn't known that Robbie was the father.

 

Yes! And Gillian was trying to get them to understand why what Celia said was just plain wrong in any circumstance, but Alan and Celia didn't get it.

 

From Alan's "in your face" moment with Gillian, I got the impression she has a very very long history of making bad judgment calls, especially about men, and probably about life in general, and Alan had always been there for her: now he's tired of it and won't take any smack talk about Celia (you have to remember here that he married Gillian's mother as a runner-up so there has to be some pain there too).

 

That was such a powerful scene. Both actors were incredible in that moment.

 

AND let's face it, that opinion was completely reinforced with Gillian unloading everything to prime enabler/biggest gossip on earth John:  what the heck was she thinking???

 

Every time Gillian spends time with John or talks to him on the phone, I just cringe. I understand though. It's like he's her only ally right now. She is so isolated and beat down. However, John is my second least favorite character. I want Caroline to throw him out. I want Gillian to tell him she's not interested. Everything about him is ridiculous. Ugh.

[Ina123]

I think it matters not that Celia did not know that Robbie was the father.  She should not have told that secret to ANYBODY!  I now officially hate both Celia and Caroline equally.  What a dismal, depressing woman Celia is.  This show is changing from a sweet show to something dark.  Man.

Exactly. That's the point that Gillian was trying to make with her and she never "got" it. It should never have been repeated no matter who she was talking to. There are a few personal things in life that just don't need to be repeated for any reason. Is she daft?

 

And for that matter, marriage or not, I think Alan should not have told it either, especially so early in their relationship.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Ina123

[Milz]

Exactly. That's the point that Gillian was trying to make with her and she never "got" it. It should never have been repeated no matter who she was talking to. There are a few personal things in life that just don't need to be repeated for any reason. Is she daft?

 

 

I'd like to think she's going wacky. But I think she's just that thoughtless. Caroline confirmed it in her phone call to Gillian that Celia's always been like that. I hope Alan will learn that you only tell Celia things you want other people to know.

 

Even her conversation with Kate about the baby being called "The Baby", or "Emily Jane" by Alan, or "Flossie" by Gillian, was too gossipy for her to be saying to Kate and John (well, John was there but they were ignoring him).

[whatsatool]

I think Alan has had grim duty being father to his daughter, except for her sheep skills which are awesome.   Why doesn't she look for a farmer?   I love Celia for her snark. ANd love that house.  Buy it!

[JudyObscure]

That's the thing -- she was very sweet to Gillian and said all the right soothing things, but I never know with Caroline just how much is natural kindness and how much is a very smart woman who knows how to manipulate people. At least with Gillian, there's never the slightest doubt about what she's really thinking.

I think Caroline is using Kate. She needs Kate's money from the sale of Kate's house to buy out John and then contribute monthly to the mortgage on Caroline's house. Now it appears she doesn't really want a baby, but is going to allow Kate to go through the whole pregnancy through a donor father thing, while all the time counting on Kate having another miscarriage. Darn cold, I'm thinking.

I love the actress, though. She narrated all forty episodes of "Lark Rise to Candleford," with her beautiful voice.

[zillabreeze]

I am really starting to hate on Celia- she has mean eyes.  If they end up writing her as a nasty old bitch, I'm okay with that.  Most older women are cast as either "Grandma aspartame sweet" or witty & plucky like Dowager Maggie.  There's a lot of hateful, old bags in the real world and Celia might just be one.

 

Celia and Caroline certainly deserve each other.  Where does Caroline get off thnking everyone should somehow rearrange their lives so that she can continue to live in her castle?  Am I mistaken or was the castle built with John's writing money from his hayday?  If so, they must have been rolling in it at one point - any references as to how they blew through all that money?

[Brattinella]

I do hope that Kate wakes up soon to the monster she is involved with!

[peeayebee]

I just read about Jacobi's fall. How horrible and painful.

 

Actually I came to this thread to post a link to an interview with Anne Reid from a few days ago. It's a BBC Radio show called Desert Island Discs where the interviewee has chosen music to bring along if stranded on a desert island. I like a lot of the music Reid chose. Anyway, she also talks about her career and so forth. Checking IMDB, I discovered that she was a voice in a Wallace & Grommit short, A Close Shave. I've always loved her voice.

 

They also talk about a movie she made in 2003 with Daniel Craig where they have sex. I've put it in my Netflix queue.

[The Collector]

I just started this topic to highly recommend Happy Valley with Sarah Lancashire.   She plays a policewoman chasing after some bad guys, a very different role for her.

[SeriousPurrs]

I thought this was going to be a second-chance love story, hearts-and-flowers romance, yes, a rom-com with senior citizens. I wanted amusing problems and wacky relatives and dogs and cats and birds singing. Wow, was I wrong; so disappointing.

[Milz]

 

 

Celia and Caroline certainly deserve each other.  Where does Caroline get off thnking everyone should somehow rearrange their lives so that she can continue to live in her castle?  Am I mistaken or was the castle built with John's writing money from his hayday?  If so, they must have been rolling in it at one point - any references as to how they blew through all that money?

 

Caroline said she wants to live in it until the boys have gone away to university. But I agree with rearranging everyone's lives.

 

I'm not sure if it was John's book money or a combination (I don't know how much money a teacher/headmistress makes).

[DHDancer]

I'm not sure if it was John's book money or a combination (I don't know how much money a teacher/headmistress makes).

 

I think the money comes from Edward (Celia's dead hubby) -- there was some mention of being comfortably well off in Season 1, I think when Alan and Celia were buying the engagement present (car).

 

I can't remember if the house was actually the family house that got passed to Caroline when Celia moved into the flat/apartment.

Edited July 16, 2014 by DHDancer

[DropTheSoap]

I thought Caroline and John bought the house with assistance from Celia.

[Fishy]

The one character that REALLY gets my craw is John.  What a pathetic, manipulative, whiny excuse of a man he is.  And the way he's manipulating Gillian (another one with a charming background history) because he needs a place to live just plain sickens me.  And saying he's a 'little in love' with her.  Aackkkk.  And Gillian?  karma is certainly coming around to bite her in the butt.

[Popples]

I just got around to watching this last night and I agree with pretty much everybody on Celia. One would think with her high and mighty attitude she would know that a little discretion goes a long way. Celia is the type of person where you can't tell them anything you wouldn't want front page on a newspaper. I also hated when she was telling Kate about the baby she kept referring to her as "it." I know the baby didn't have a name, but "it"? "She" would have been fine.

 

Oh, Gillian! I wish people would learn that if someone you don't want to speak to rings your phone, you are not obligated to answer it. John is such a weasel, I wish Gillian didn't put so much of her self-worth in a man because you have to be super desperate to not see through him. Unfortunately, he is the only one who is willing to lend an ear for her to pour her heart out.

 

It was really obvious that Ellie was going to leave the baby, the way she (and Raff) were just staring at her when she was asleep in her carrier next to Alan and Celia like they had never seen such a thing.