Batwoman in the Media: Send the Bat Signal

[Trini]

Valentine with Batwoman:

 

[Trini]

Breakdown of Episode 2.04 at EW:

Quote

"For the Candy Lady, that [episode] was hard because that's real life," Leslie tells EW. "Kids are getting kidnapped and trafficked all the time, and it was dark. It was a world that I knew that if we were going to go there, we needed to go there because that's the point: You tell these stories, one, to shine a light on [these issues], but then to save through them."

According to showrunner Caroline Dries, the idea for the Candy Lady had been batting around the writers' room since season 1. "The idea of the Candy Lady came straight out of the warped mind of [episode writer] Ebony Gilbert," Dries says. "The idea came up, 'Well, let's use Candy Lady in season 1 as just a villain of the week that Kate Kane has to [defeat],' and we kept pushing it off, pushing it off, and then it just didn't feel personal enough. Then once Ryan came on the show, we realized, 'Yes, now we have a story that we can tell where our central character is personally affected by this villain.' And it kind of helped unfold a little bit of this backstory that we wanted to tell with Ryan."

 

[Trini]

 

[Trini]

Batwoman changing it's timeslot to 9pm in May: https://tvline.com/2021/02/24/cw-premiere-dates-2021-legends-of-tomorrow-dynasty-full-schedule/

Edited February 24, 2021 by Trini

[Trini]

Writer Ebony Gilbert in CW's Black History month spotlight:

 

[Primal Slayer]

I think this really says all we need to know about Ruby possibly returning. She was edited out of the Superman & Lois: Legacy special. Im guessing Kate will be ignored outside of Batwoman.

[Trini]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I think this really says all we need to know about Ruby possibly returning. She was edited out of the Superman & Lois: Legacy special. Im guessing Kate will be ignored outside of Batwoman.

 

I had heard about that, but wanted to rewatch the special to see for myself. Seems really unnecessary; especially for a 5-second shot. Even if Ruby's not coming back, Batwoman was there for the crossover, so why erase that? Now I'm just wondering if this is pure pettiness or a contract/money issue.

[Perfect Xero]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

I had heard about that, but wanted to rewatch the special to see for myself. Seems really unnecessary; especially for a 5-second shot. Even if Ruby's not coming back, Batwoman was there for the crossover, so why erase that? Now I'm just wondering if this is pure pettiness or a contract/money issue.

I believe the rule is that if they reuse old footage of an actor they have to pay them for it. So I guess there's a cost saving issue there, but probably more that they didn't want to cut Rose a check than it being make or break for their budget.

[Trini]

New poster:

https://twitter.com/JaviciaLeslie/status/1366477060470829056

[quarks]

On 2/28/2021 at 4:47 PM, Trini said:

I had heard about that, but wanted to rewatch the special to see for myself. Seems really unnecessary; especially for a 5-second shot. Even if Ruby's not coming back, Batwoman was there for the crossover, so why erase that? Now I'm just wondering if this is pure pettiness or a contract/money issue.

I'm guessing a combination of both, honestly.

They would have had to pay Ruby Rose something for that appearance, so, yes, contract/money issue - especially given that this was essentially a promo/filler thing, and not something that they can expect to see earnings from in the future. Especially especially since WB sold this and their other shows to the CW as rock bottom, low budget shows - only to find that this year, production costs have jumped anywhere from $50,000 to $200,000 per episode (depending upon who you talk to) to cover Covid costs, so, yeah, I can definitely see Berlanti ordering them to cut costs whenever possible. 

It's also remotely possible that they reached out to Ruby Rose and her management for permission, and for whatever reason, management never got back to them or the permission was denied. I find that unlikely, but it has happened with other talent in the past, so maybe.

All this said, it also costs money to digitally edit someone out of a shot, and it really shouldn't have been that hard to get permission - Arrow was able to get permission from Susanna Thompson who was reportedly not happy about her exit, either - so this does have a distinct petty feel to it, doesn't it? 

[Trini]

Saturn Award nomination for Batwoman:

Quote

Best Superhero Adaptation Television Series

Batwoman (The CW)

The Boys (Amazon)

The Flash (The CW)

Stargirl (The CW)

Supergirl (The CW)

The Umbrella Academy (Netflix)

Watchmen (HBO)

https://deadline.com/2021/03/saturn-awards-nominations-2021-nominees-list-1234706492/

[Trini]

CW's International Women's Day promo; with clips of the Batwoman ladies:

 

[possibilities]

I would think that if she was in the promo, it would start rumors about her returning, and they don't want to have to deal with quashing that, or disappointing people, or just basically having that distraction. Media explosions over a departed actor are not really beneficial to the brand.

[Chicago Redshirt]

FWIW, Ruby Rose says she would be willing to come back as Kate Kane if it made sense:

https://www.cbr.com/batwoman-ruby-rose-would-return-serve-story/

[Trini]

Batwoman virtual panel at WonderCon, March 27.

https://tvline.com/2021/03/11/wondercon-2021-manifest-batwoman-panels-warner-bros/

[Trini]

CW Spotlight on Batwoman writer, Ebony Gilbert:

 

[Trini]

Preview of episode 2.08 at EW: 'Batwoman boss, stars tease Ryan's 'freaking epic' trip to Coryana'

Quote

"There's a lot at stake on Coryana," showrunner Caroline Dries tells EW. "For Ryan, who's sick, she can't go and realizes, 'I need to put my trust in two Crows [Jacob and Sophie].' As you [saw] at the beginning of the season, she does not trust the Crows, nor should see. So, it's really, really hard for the Bat team to look at the top of episode 8 and think this trip is going to go off without a hitch. Of course, it totally doesn't, and it will be full of surprises, a lot of drama, some tears, and a big twist at the end."

 

[scarynikki12]

Our newly recast Kate Kane!

(When I say newly recast I don't mean it happened five minutes ago just that it's new to us)

[Primal Slayer]

18 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Our newly recast Kate Kane!

(When I say newly recast I don't mean it happened five minutes ago just that it's new to us)

This kind of annoys me? We went the entire hiatus with the showrunner going "we thought about recasting Kate but decided her story was done and we arent going to recast Rubys role" just to bring in a brand new character to take her place....but NOW you are cool with recasting Kate? When it's no longer her show (lets be real....the likihood of Kate taking up the mantle of Batwoman again is slim to none). I'm so over this showrunner.

[legaleagle53]

37 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Our newly recast Kate Kane!

(When I say newly recast I don't mean it happened five minutes ago just that it's new to us)

Interesting that they're going with the actress who played Superman's future grandmother in Krypton.  Talk about a meta crossover if the planned one with Superman & Lois had ever come to fruition!

[scarynikki12]

That doesn’t bother me because I’m used to show runners, writers, and others involved lying. Logically they were always going to recast Kate since they were adamant about not killing her off. Of course they could have been lying about that too but they acknowledged everyone’s worry about doing the “killing a lesbian” trope so it was unlikely they’d be so directly cruel making a recast the better option.

I don’t know how long Wallis has been cast but the reason to say nothing until now is so that Javicia and Ryan could have a chance to shine without seeming like a placeholder. 

3 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Interesting that they're going with the actress who played Superman's future grandmother in Krypton.  Talk about a meta crossover if the planned one with Superman & Lois had ever come to fruition!

Lots of people have expressed hope to see Cameron show up on S&L in one way or another since they intended to include him in Crisis before scheduling conflicts arose, and he’s more than ready to do it if they ask, so maybe this is a sign the CW will find a way to play with all the Krypton cast. 

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, scarynikki12 said:

That doesn’t bother me because I’m used to show runners, writers, and others involved lying. Logically they were always going to recast Kate since they were adamant about not killing her off. Of course they could have been lying about that too but they acknowledged everyone’s worry about doing the “killing a lesbian” trope so it was unlikely they’d be so directly cruel making a recast the better option.

I don’t know how long Wallis has been cast but the reason to say nothing until now is so that Javicia and Ryan could have a chance to shine without seeming like a placeholder. 

I just dont see this having any type of happy ending. For one its going to bring out the haters in DROVES towards Javicia and just start all kinds of fan-wars. I have no problem being wrong but....I dont see them being able to give Kate any type of send off that would feel genuine or not ruin the character. She'll most likely hang up the cowl, tell Ryan "it's yours, you've done great, you deserve it, you've done more good than I ever could" and it'll likely be an eye roll worthy moment (for me). Should've just written her off-screen. 

[scarynikki12]

Julia saying that body parts of Kate’s were found makes me think she’s missing at least one limb so I’m hoping for an Oracle situation. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, scarynikki12 said:

Julia saying that body parts of Kate’s were found makes me think she’s missing at least one limb so I’m hoping for an Oracle situation. 

Now that would be a valid storyline for her not suiting again.

[BeautifulFlower]

36 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

That doesn’t bother me because I’m used to show runners, writers, and others involved lying. Logically they were always going to recast Kate since they were adamant about not killing her off. Of course they could have been lying about that too but they acknowledged everyone’s worry about doing the “killing a lesbian” trope so it was unlikely they’d be so directly cruel making a recast the better option.

I don’t know how long Wallis has been cast but the reason to say nothing until now is so that Javicia and Ryan could have a chance to shine without seeming like a placeholder. 

 

What bothers me is the show is supposed to be about Ryan as Batwoman now. However, we have not gotten that at all. This whole first half storyline has been about Kate. "Is Kate dead?"  "Where is Kate?" "How to get to Coryana to get Kate?" Alice wants to kill Kate. "How do we heal Ryan's injury?" We got to Coryana to get the desert which is where Kate is being held. I mean seriously everything has been about Kate.

When does Ryan story begin? I ask this because the seconds sounds like it will be about Kate as well. So how can they just tell us "Kate story is done" when it's not? Again, when does Ryan's story begins?

[possibilities]

We did have a bunch of stories about Ryan, though. We saw her childhood, and how she was kidnapped, and we heard about her being framed, and we saw her being badass without the team when she was still living in her van. 

[BeautifulFlower]

14 minutes ago, possibilities said:

We did have a bunch of stories about Ryan, though. We saw her childhood, and how she was kidnapped, and we heard about her being framed, and we saw her being badass without the team when she was still living in her van. 

It's not enough. The overall story has been Kate, Kate, Kate. It's great they gave us background information on Ryan, but that is all it is. 

[Cranberry]

Camrus started following Wallis Day on Twitter back in late May. Think the whole cast has known since then?

Caroline Dries did an interview with TV Line where she talks about the twist and what's next: Batwoman Boss Breaks Down Those Kate Kane and Ryan Wilder Twists, Teases a 'Sadistic' New Big Bad

[Primal Slayer]

6 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

It's not enough. The overall story has been Kate, Kate, Kate. It's great they gave us background information on Ryan, but that is all it is. 

Kate was the mystery and something the characters had to deal with but Ryan was still shown to be just as important and have her own story. She was in no way shafted, we've been getting to know her just like we did Kate in s1.

On 3/10/2021 at 1:47 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

FWIW, Ruby Rose says she would be willing to come back as Kate Kane if it made sense:

https://www.cbr.com/batwoman-ruby-rose-would-return-serve-story/

That's funny that she'd think that they'd want her back after everything. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

That's funny that she'd think that they'd want her back after everything. 

She might not actually think that they'd want her back, and she might not have wanted to go back herself. She could have just been giving a positive spin answer, suspecting that neither she nor TPTB would want to try to reconcile, and even knowing (as I presume she must have) that a recasting was in the works or even a done deal. 

[Delphi]

I just... can't believe that they went months saying they weren't going to recast... then did that.   Because if that was the case,  I would have really seen better ways to write this show.   Like have Julia take up the mantle while she looks for Kate then go back to focusing on Kate's story like you had planned when you created the damn show.   You could pretty much have the exact plot of this season with the exclusion of Ryan.   And honestly while I love the actress the character didn't need to exist. 

Or hell,  include Ryan as a new vigilante inspired by Batwoman... there were a million things they could've done but they've just showed that their not very creative. 

[Cranberry]

‘Batwoman’ Showrunner on Recasting Kate Kane and What It Means for Ryan Wilder

Quote

After Rose exited the show, Dries toyed with the idea of recasting her right away but ultimately changed her mind and decided to introduce a new character — Ryan — instead because she thought “it would have been a clunky transition between Season 1 and Season 2 if we had just full-blown recast Kate with no organic story behind it,” she says. But, in the back of her mind, she always planned to bring her back in a new way since she was not killing off the character.

Like I said earlier, Camrus started following Wallis Day on Twitter in late May (around the 26th, I think). If the casting decision hadn't already been made at that point, that's quite a coincidence! He didn't start following anyone else who'd expressed interest in the job.

Edit: Batwoman boss breaks down that Kate Kane shocker and recasting

Quote

I believe [Day] auditioned for Ryan Wilder.  So when I met her via Zoom audition —those super awkward Zoom auditions — she was super cool and had great swagger and poise, and I just really liked her. At the same time, I believe there was sort of like this internet campaign — I don't know how widespread it was, but it got my attention — that Wallis should be Kate Kane, and she does sort of look a lot like Kate Kane, so it drew me to her. And ultimately when we were going through the audition process again, her name rose to the surface, and she just killed her audition, so we went with her. But it helped that I had known her previously just from those past auditions.

 

[Proteus]

I'm shocked the show not only recast Kate, but did it with the #1 actress in fan casting. This is going to get messy. 

[quarks]

15 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

She might not actually think that they'd want her back, and she might not have wanted to go back herself. She could have just been giving a positive spin answer, suspecting that neither she nor TPTB would want to try to reconcile, and even knowing (as I presume she must have) that a recasting was in the works or even a done deal. 

I doubt that they told her a recasting was in the works, but she's been around long enough to know that was at least a possibility, especially a genre show where no one really dies. 

In any case, privately she could be saying all kinds of things, but publicly, her best bet is probably to do exactly what she's doing here - keeping everything positive. 

[possibilities]

So are they going to kill off Ryan instead?

[Trini]

I figured that they'd probably find someone to play Kate just to wrap up her story and exit the character since they didn't want to kill her (for just a couple episodes), but now it seems like Kate will be around for the next half of the season; which I feel is a bit of a disservice to Ryan. I'm sure Ryan is staying put as the lead, but even more focus is going to go to former lead, Kate, who now will have an onscreen prescence -- but we're still getting used to Ryan as the lead and as Batwoman.

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, quarks said:

I doubt that they told her a recasting was in the works, but she's been around long enough to know that was at least a possibility, especially a genre show where no one really dies. 

It could go either way for me on whether TPTB would have explicitly told her, depending on how things happened behind the scenes and what her contract says. I imagine there would be a certain prudence to letting her know in advance so that if it leaks and she's asked about it, she doesn't say anything against the party line. 

I would more imagine that Ruby remained friends/friendly with some of the actors, writers, behind-the-scene people on the show, all of whom must have known about the recasting well before this week's episode was shot. 

Also, there presumably was some sort of casting notice that her agent could have spotted. 

Knowing that there were alternate means of finding out gives TPTB some incentive to front the news. 

But it could also be that TPTB were either spiteful or took active steps to conceal the recasting from her and the public in general. 

ETA: the link in the post below quotes Ruby as saying she knew beforehand. So of course that too could be spin, and even if true, "beforehand" could be relatively recently and it could have been from any number of sources. Heck, maybe even Wallis called her for tips on how to play Kate at some point.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[Cranberry]

Ruby Rose on Batwoman's Kate Kane Recast: 'I Am Stoked' for Wallis Day

Quote

Rose on Monday afternoon responded to a fan’s Instagrammed tribute to the OG Kate Kane by attaching a comment, saying, “I’m sorry I didn’t congratulate Wallis Day yesterday. I knew about the casting beforehand and didn’t know when [the episode] aired so I forgot to. But I’m stoked for her! I’m seeing all the things I’m tagged in, with people sad or wondering how I felt… I feel great, I have nothing but good vibes.”

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

So are they going to kill off Ryan instead?

I think killing or sidelining Ryan would be a Very Bad Idea.

It would be racially insensitive to cast a Black Batwoman and to raise issues about race and class, and then imply )or outright show) that she was not good enough to get the job done, and then bring back White billionaire Kate Kane to the forefront.

I would imagine that there are Kate Kane fans, Ryan haters or people who are liberal enough to watch a lefty show about a lesbian heroine but conservative enough to not like politics about race and class put at the forefront of the show. All of them would love to see nuKate take over the series again.  

I would also imagine that those numbers are dwarfed by people who are fans of both Kate and Ryan, people who are just or primarily Ryan fans, people who care about social and racial justice, etc., who might stop watching or otherwise protest such a move.

[Perfect Xero]

Quote

After Rose exited the show, Dries toyed with the idea of recasting her right away but ultimately changed her mind and decided to introduce a new character — Ryan — instead because she thought “it would have been a clunky transition between Season 1 and Season 2 if we had just full-blown recast Kate with no organic story behind it,” she says

I continue to not understand the thought process here. This is a tv universe where they regular have different actors play versions of the same character and the same actors playing different characters with barely any remark upon it.

Is plastic surgery any better way to explain the different face and voice than having Brainy or Cisco show up via video chat and call it residual energy from the multiverse collapse or something?

[Starry]

On 3/23/2021 at 7:56 AM, Trini said:

I figured that they'd probably find someone to play Kate just to wrap up her story and exit the character since they didn't want to kill her (for just a couple episodes), but now it seems like Kate will be around for the next half of the season; which I feel is a bit of a disservice to Ryan. I'm sure Ryan is staying put as the lead, but even more focus is going to go to former lead, Kate, who now will have an onscreen prescence -- but we're still getting used to Ryan as the lead and as Batwoman.

That's what I thought too but then I saw they had cast a fan favorite. I expect Kate to stick around for a while now.

[possibilities]

They were always playing both sides here. They promised not to kill Kate, and they also said they weren't going to re-cast her. It's not possible for both to be true, unless they were planning to keep her off screen forever and just have everybody talking about her, like the imaginary "girlfriend in Canada" or the "we will always look for her and never know for sure what happened." 

They should have just recast her in the first place if this is what they were going to do anyway. Now they've made a convoluted mess and for no reason. I like Ryan, but the way this has been handled is fubar.

 

[Trini]

LOL -- some reassurance from the social media team?

 

[rogvortex58]

Wow. Just when I thought these writers couldn’t be any more disrespectful to Kate. They bring her back after the OC has taken everything away from her. And according to them that’s the way it’s going to stay. Because creating their own random character and giving her Kate’s mantle as Batwoman was more important than simply respecting Kate and recasting her right from the start.

It’s just downright disgraceful.

[Trini]

WonderCon panel this weekend;  March 27, 2pm Pacific:

 

[Proteus]

14 hours ago, rogvortex58 said:

Wow. Just when I thought these writers couldn’t be any more disrespectful to Kate. They bring her back after the OC has taken everything away from her. And according to them that’s the way it’s going to stay. Because creating their own random character and giving her Kate’s mantle as Batwoman was more important than simply respecting Kate and recasting her right from the start.

It’s just downright disgraceful.

I have a feeling Wallis Day/Kate Kane isn't going anywhere. Whether they like it or not this season hasn't been working. I don't know what I think will happen to Ryan, but this KK recasting news is the most well received news this show has gotten in a year. I'll be surprised if they have her just hand over the mantle to Ryan & leave.

[rogvortex58]

8 hours ago, Proteus said:

I have a feeling Wallis Day/Kate Kane isn't going anywhere. Whether they like it or not this season hasn't been working. I don't know what I think will happen to Ryan, but this KK recasting news is the most well received news this show has gotten in a year. I'll be surprised if they have her just hand over the mantle to Ryan & leave.

As much as I would love to see Kate reclaim her rightful place as Batwoman. The sad truth is, these writers clearly care more about political pandering than respecting the source material. The imposter who stole the suit will get to keep it, because they already chose her over Kate. And because she’s part of a minority group she’ll get special treatment just so they can say the show is woke.

If I didn’t hate the OC before I certainly hate her now. Why did she have to come along and ruin everything? Why was she more important to the producers than the character whose story gave them the opportunity to start this show in the first place?

Definitely the worst showrunners of any series in the Errorverse. If they’re not going to do the right thing and make Kate Batwoman again, then I have no reason to watch.

Edited March 26, 2021 by rogvortex58

[BeautifulFlower]

On 3/26/2021 at 6:11 AM, rogvortex58 said:

As much as I would love to see Kate reclaim her rightful place as Batwoman. The sad truth is, these writers clearly care more about political pandering than respecting the source material. The imposter who stole the suit will get to keep it, because they already chose her over Kate. And because she’s part of a minority group she’ll get special treatment just so they can say the show is woke.

If I didn’t hate the OC before I certainly hate her now. Why did she have to come along and ruin everything? Why was she more important to the producers than the character whose story gave them the opportunity to start this show in the first place?

Definitely the worst showrunners of any series in the Errorverse. If they’re not going to do the right thing and make Kate Batwoman again, then I have no reason to watch.

Your whole post is something I would see on Reddit. I don't know what to make of what you said. Let me ask you this. Would you feel the same way if they had Julia take up the mantle and KEPT the mantle?

You're angry about the disrespecting of the source material? Does that mean you hate Cisco, Caitlin, Joe, Wells, and any other character who's not a part of The Flash comics? Do you hate Felicity? What about Mia? Arrow is the show that followed the comic book source material the least.

Look, comic book shows don't always follow the source material. Batwoman is no exception. So if you don't like it, then you can just not watch?

[Trini]

Batwoman Cast and Producer Q&A | WonderCon@Home 2021 :

Quote

... Series stars Javicia Leslie, Rachel Skarsten, Meagan Tandy, Nicole Kang, Camrus Johnson, and executive producer/showrunner Caroline Dries, for a revealing chat with TVLine.com’s staff editor, Keisha Hatchett, as well as a fun round of Batwoman-themed trivia and behind-the-scenes looks at the show’s costumes and the Batmobile! ...

 

 

[quarks]

Speaking of the Batmobile, ok, it probably sounds frivolous and shallow to say that part of the reason I want Ryan to stay as the Batwoman is because she actually uses the Batmobile, but...

....I want Ryan to stay as Batwoman because, yay, Batmobile! Kate never even considered the inherent coolness factor there!

(Also, I like to think that Bruce Wayne added some major fuel efficiency to the Batmobile and/or that it's now an electric vehicle so it's even the green choice.)