Friends - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

Just goes to show, sometimes actors having power can be used for good.

And that so-called "creatives" can get lazy and fall back on the same tired tropes again and again without that actor input involved.

So, thank you, Matthew Perry, for protecting your character and, by extension, the only decent, healthy relationship on the show.

[AgathaC]

I think what strikes me as most odd is the timing. Creative types do some very stupid things and sometimes cooler, wiser heads prevail. From the story, the script was written, actress cast and they had already done rehearsing before MP said anything. I would have thought he (or any actor, really) would have objected quicker than that. But who knows. Like I said, I’m taking this story with a grain of salt.

I agree it would have destroyed the dynamics. With R/R’s breakup, it was structured so that you could come out of it not hating either one. I thought Ross was stupid to sleep with the copy girl, but also felt like they were, indeed, on a break.

As I think about it, there was always something theatrical about R/R. It was big. It was loud. It was entertaining (in a way). It was very much a grand tv romance.

C/M, on the other hand, always felt real. There was just this core of honesty and stability that made them less exciting in a dramatic tv way, but more relatable and even aspirational. During the initial run, I was interested in what would happen with R/R. But I was far more invested in C/M. R/R was entertaining (I still get a kick out of the letter). C/M was the relationship I wanted. Chandler cheating would not only have been out of character, it would have felt like too much of a betrayal.

The show survived R/R. No way could it survive what that article described.

[Guest]

I wonder if the basic core of the story is true but it didn't get quite as far in the process as the actress is remembering. Or maybe Matthew had misgivings about it but still hesitated to "throw his weight around" so it did get to the point of rehearsals...maybe actually acting the scene out is what made him feel so ick about it that he finally had to say something.

[sistermagpie]

14 hours ago, Laura Holt said:

I thought they came close to doing this in that episode where they retconned the first time Chandler and Monica got together in England.  Making it that Monica had gone looking for Joey was just so wrong to me and didn't make one tiny bit of sense.

So much this. It's one decision that always disappoints me any time the rerun is on. The original way it happened was so perfect and more importantly sweet in the way the rest of the relationship was.

Re: writers wanting to break people up, I always remember something I read about Six Feet Under how whenever they were brainstorming what would happen in a season somebody would suggest David and Keith breaking up because it was just easy conflict--and it was always rejected, thank goodness. It's weird b/c on one hand it is easy conflct, but otoh it's like they don't think about what a betrayal it would really be and how it would change everything. With R&R it made sense because they threw in the "break" thing and, more importantly, their relationship problems were always adolescent and there from the very beginning. But you don't take a couple based in respect and genuine friendship and think cheating can be wacky.

[Katy M]

12 hours ago, LexieLily said:

no way would the six have survived Chandler cheating on Monica with the friend group in tact. It would have irrevocably ruined the show's dynamic.

Yeah, real world, Chandler would have basically been kicked out of the group with Joey being the only one who would still talk to him.  He really would be Kip, like Rachel said she would be after the Ross/Emily wedding fiasco.

[LexieLily]

5 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I wonder if the basic core of the story is true but it didn't get quite as far in the process as the actress is remembering. Or maybe Matthew had misgivings about it but still hesitated to "throw his weight around" so it did get to the point of rehearsals...maybe actually acting the scene out is what made him feel so ick about it that he finally had to say something.

I feel awful that it's where my cynical mind went but my immediate first thought after reading the article is that it's just a lesser-known actress' way of getting herself in the news on the back of Matthew Perry's death. The article said the scene was in the original script and apparently rehearsed but never shot in front of people, and the other five Friends and/or the writers surely won't take time from their grieving to corroborate or deny her claims.

Edited November 7, 2023 by LexieLily

[AgathaC]

9 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I feel awful that it's where my cynical mind went but my immediate first thought after reading the article is that it's just a lesser-known actress' way of getting herself in the news on the back of Matthew Perry's death. The article said the scene was in the original script and apparently rehearsed but never shot in front of people, and the other five Friends and/or the writers surely won't take time from their grieving to corroborate or deny her claims.

Can I sit at the cynical table with you? Because that’s where my mind first went, too. Of course, I’m always happy to admit when I turn out to be wrong, but this did have that attention-seeking whiff around it.

[Bort]

Yeah me too, I think this story is complete bullshit.

[bluegirl147]

23 hours ago, AgathaC said:

Can I sit at the cynical table with you?

We are going to need a bigger table because I agree.  I have read every Friends book there is.  And the writers and actors all gave a lot of behind the scenes stuff and nothing about this ever came up.  And Matthew Perry was the only person who thought it was a bad idea?  Courteney didn't have a problem with it?

[AgathaC]

5 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

We are going to need a bigger table because I agree.  I have read every Friends book there is.  And the writers and actors all gave a lot of behind the scenes stuff and nothing about this ever came up.  And Matthew Perry was the only person who thought it was a bad idea?  Courteney didn't have a problem with it?

Exactly my thoughts. In books, interviews and commentary tracks, the creative types have been pretty chatty regarding storylines — including ones that got shot down. Just seems odd something that big wouldn’t have the slightest mention.

[bluegirl147]

13 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

Exactly my thoughts. In books, interviews and commentary tracks, the creative types have been pretty chatty regarding storylines — including ones that got shot down. Just seems odd something that big wouldn’t have the slightest mention.

Yep someone talked about a proposed storyline about Chandler going to a male strip club because they had a good tuna melt and that was shot down. But this Vegas cheating story never became public?

[LexieLily]

3 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Yep someone talked about a proposed storyline about Chandler going to a male strip club because they had a good tuna melt and that was shot down. But this Vegas cheating story never became public?

Didn't the deleted scenes of the Chandler/Monica bomb subplot that got scrapped because of 9/11 become public knowledge, even?

[scarynikki12]

Random question: was Ugly Naked Guy/Ross' apartment a one or two bedroom? 

[supposebly]

4 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Random question: was Ugly Naked Guy/Ross' apartment a one or two bedroom? 

I don't know but I sure hope it had at least 2 bedrooms. At some point, Rachel and Emma lived with him.

[scarynikki12]

Just now, supposebly said:

At some point, Rachel and Emma lived with him.

I was thinking about the show today and it popped into my head. I would have sworn it was a one bedroom but then I realized I couldn't remember any confirmation either way. I can't see Rachel being comfortable sleeping in the living room and them somehow sharing the bedroom when they weren't together is just weird.

Plus Emma (and Ben if Ross was ever reminded of his existence) would need a place to sleep when it was Ross' time with her. I maintain Ross and Rachel broke up (again and permanently) ten minutes after the show ended and would have shared custody of Emma. I imagine Mark introduced her to someone at...Michael Kors' fashion house, Ross lost his shit all over again*, and Rachel finally realized they were better off far away from any hint of romance.

*I really wish Ross had grown with regard to his jealousy. A great way to demonstrate he had grown beyond his "on a break!" crazy was by having Rachel remind him who Mark was and him not only not being remotely phased by his return but being genuinely happy to see her reconnect with an old friend. Instead he reverted to his season 3 behavior and referenced the break during his reunion with Rachel. He hadn't learned a damn thing.

[General Days]

I think the Matthew nixed a Chandler cheats on Monica storyline is probably mostly true.

I don't know if Lisa Cash got all the details right, or whether she even knew all the details, but it reads true to me. Everyone else involved (David Crane, Marta Kauffman, the rest of the main cast) is still alive and could debunk Cash. Were she lying, she'd risk looking like an enormous ass, trying to capitalize on the death of a beloved actor.

Also, I remember one of the reasons Marta never wanted to do a new episode of friends (i.e. a scripted sort of reunion episode or TV movie, rather than the retrospective we got) is that she said something like -- they'd left the characters in a good place, and if they came back, then they couldn't all still be together, there would need to have been divorces, etc.

I remember at the time thinking, "Well, that's not a necessity," but I think that is (and, I'm not a reactionary culture warrior at all) sort of the Hollywood think.

Why the heck could they not all still be married? I got married in my 20s. I'm in my 50s, and I have no problem picking out other close friends (who were good friends with my husband and I, when we married) who are still married. More of us are than are not.

According to Cash, the supposedly nixed cheating incident was in S05.E23, "The One in Vegas Part I." When Crane and Kauffman originally hooked up Monica and Chandler in the S4 finale/S5 premiere, they originally thought it would just be a fling. It was only as they saw the huge audience response to it, that they rethought their original plan.

Now, a lot happened in season five to indicate Kauffman and Crane corrected course quickly, but I can see how they might have gone from FLING to RELATIONSHIP THAT ENDS POORLY to END GAME. They didn't have to necessarily evolve directly from FLING to END GAME.

Also, season 5 was not one of Matthew Perry's healthiest seasons. In fact, it's among those he doesn't really remember. So while I would like to think that he would have immediately said, "Nope, this is a bad idea, and people will hate Chandler forever," it might have taken him a while to muddle through the alcohol, or the opiods, or whatever demon was pestering him at that point, before he realized he needed to stop it, then got up the nerve to do so.

Anyhow, that's just my point of view. I don't need Kauffman and Crane to have been right about Chandler and Monica all along. I'm just glad they were right when it counted.

Edited November 11, 2023 by General Days

[princelina]

On 11/9/2023 at 7:06 PM, scarynikki12 said:

Random question: was Ugly Naked Guy/Ross' apartment a one or two bedroom? 

It was a two bedroom - in the episode where Rachel has moved in and Mona arrives with a Valentine's dinner, Rachel picks up her Chinese food and tells them to enjoy their evening, as she will be eating and watching TV in her room.  Of course I guess I've always assumed that meant that Ross and Mona could have a romantic night and repair to his room, even though that didn't happen! 😃

1 hour ago, General Days said:

Why the heck could they not all still be married? I got married in my 20s. I'm in my 50s, and I have no problem picking out other close friends (who were good friends with my husband and I, when we married) who are still married. More of us are than are not.

They could totally still be married, and if you need a divorce make it Phoebe and Mike - no one cares about him anyway 😄

[Llywela]

7 hours ago, princelina said:

They could totally still be married, and if you need a divorce make it Phoebe and Mike - no one cares about him anyway 😄

Heck, just split Ross and Rachel up again, and there's your 'essential' reunion show divorce right there. Job done!

[Wiendish Fitch]

2 hours ago, Llywela said:

Heck, just split Ross and Rachel up again, and there's your 'essential' reunion show divorce right there. Job done!

Same! I never hated Phoebe and Mike as much as everyone else did, but Ross and Rachel can piss right the hell off. 

[Bort]

They’d almost have to break up Phoebe and Mike because good luck prying Paul Rudd away from Marvel.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

They could totally still be married, and if you need a divorce make it Phoebe and Mike - no one cares about him anyway 😄

I loved Mike. He and Phoebe were the anti Ross and Rachel. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

16 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I loved Mike. He and Phoebe were the anti Ross and Rachel. 

The Take certainly agrees with you.

 

And am I the only one who will always be relieved that they didn't pair Phoebe with Joey? That would have been too horrible and cliched to me.

Plus, JMO, Phoebe (and pretty much every woman) is too good for Joey.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Wiendish Fitch

[Avabelle]

People didn’t like Phoebe and Mike?

[sistermagpie]

14 hours ago, General Days said:

I remember at the time thinking, "Well, that's not a necessity," but I think that is (and, I'm not a reactionary culture warrior at all) sort of the Hollywood think.

 

TBF, I didn't get the impression they meant nobody could remain married, just that in order to have a show they'd need to have conflict, and so their lives would need to be back in dissaray with reasons for them to go back to a dynamic more like the ones they had before they were married.

Which I still disagree needs divorces, but I assumed that's what they meant. That the ending of the show was meant to be stable and they'd have to shake things up for drama.

59 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I loved Mike. He and Phoebe were the anti Ross and Rachel. 

Mike and Phoebe always made a lot of sense to me. She's with a guy who's stable and easygoing who supports and loves all her weirdness. She doesn't need some guy who's competitive with her on that score or has the same vibe as her. Also, he quit a job as a lawyer to play the piano, so he shares her fudamental values too.

3 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

People didn’t like Phoebe and Mike?

Surprised me too!

[Laura Holt]

7 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

People didn’t like Phoebe and Mike?

I liked Mike but by the end of the series I wasn't too crazy about Phoebe.  I can't off the top of my head come up with specific instances but I have this memory of feeling that Phoebe was not so much flaky as bitchy.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Laura Holt said:

I liked Mike but by the end of the series I wasn't too crazy about Phoebe.  I can't off the top of my head come up with specific instances but I have this memory of feeling that Phoebe was not so much flaky as bitchy.

Phoebe was flaky up until The One That Could Have Been with the alternate universe where Rachel married Barry and geeky Chandler still got with a heavier Monica. If you recall, Phoebe was a straight-up workaholic bitch there who ended up having a heart attack.

Trouble is, once that episode was over, AU Phoebe's behavior seemed to transfer to "real" Phoebe, if not as outright cruel. If I recall, TPTB thought the attitude was funny. Glad someone did. I liked early Phoebe. Later? Meh.

(And controversial opinion time: It's why, even when Monica went off the deep end and acted like a crazed loon during Phoebe's wedding, I wasn't too upset for Phoebe. I considered it karma for all the times Phoebe seemed to delight in causing a rift between Monica and Chandler. See the London/Joey reveal as one example.)

[Guest]

I'm on the record as not being a Phoebe fan at all, but all these clips of outtakes and interviews that have been recently appearing on my various feeds have reminded me that Lisa Kudrow seems absolutely delightful.

[WendyCR72]

8 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

I'm on the record as not being a Phoebe fan at all, but all these clips of outtakes and interviews that have been recently appearing on my various feeds have reminded me that Lisa Kudrow seems absolutely delightful.

Oh, Lisa is awesome! It's her alter ego I have issues with.

[WendyCR72]

Apparently, this is from late October, but Hollywood Reporter has an article where Jean Claude Van Damme talks about his appearing on the show.

[Laura Holt]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

See the London/Joey reveal as one example

This is the one!  Yes, I couldn't put my finger on the episode where I felt Phoebe crossed over into mean girl territory but this was the one.  I am guessing we were supposed to see this as flaky Phoebe being unaware of boundaries and what is better left unsaid but that's not how she came across to me.

[Irlandesa]

9 hours ago, kariyaki said:

They’d almost have to break up Phoebe and Mike because good luck prying Paul Rudd away from Marvel.

Paul Rudd does whatever Paul Rudd wants to do.  He's been on streaming shows, music videos, TV shows...etc.

But I don't see the cast joining on for something they disagree with like splitting up couples. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

Paul Rudd does whatever Paul Rudd wants to do.  He's been on streaming shows, music videos, TV shows...etc.

Heh. It's funny to read this now when I was just having a slice in a pizza parlor I go to a lot and I looked up and realize there was a picture of customer Paul Rudd on the wall with the owner. He can show up anywhere!

[AgathaC]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Apparently, this is from late October, but Hollywood Reporter has an article where Jean Claude Van Damme talks about his appearing on the show.

From what I’ve read, he was not very highly thought of by the creative team. I read in a couple of different places that he was a little too … enthusiastic when kissing Jennifer Aniston. She said something to director Michael Lembeck, who talked to Van Damme. Thought the problem was solved. Then, when it came time to kiss Courteney Cox — exact same thing. Lembeck had to talk to him again, a little more “firmly.”

That was also the episode where Andre Agassi verbally berated Brooke Shields for the scene where she licks Matt LeBlanc’s fingers. Either Kevin Bright or Michael Lembeck had to intervene and Jennifer, Courteney and Lisa took her off backstage to look after her and calm her down.

Eventful episode.

Edited November 12, 2023 by AgathaC

[WendyCR72]

While some may find it harder to watch the show since Matthew Perry's death, apparently it has had the opposite affect for the show streaming wise.

The series has topped the TV streaming charts in the states in the two weeks following Matthew Perry's death.

In related news, streams of the Rembrandts' "I'll Be There For You", the show's theme, have tripled per Billboard.

[Spartan Girl]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:07 PM, Wiendish Fitch said:

The Take certainly agrees with you.

 

And am I the only one who will always be relieved that they didn't pair Phoebe with Joey? That would have been too horrible and cliched to me.

Plus, JMO, Phoebe (and pretty much every woman) is too good for Joey.

First off, I’m beginning to loathe the term “settled” and it’s basically summed up why in the video. And second, Mike was a catch, maybe even too good for Phoebe. But yeah, a way better couple than Ross and Rachel—not high a bar, but it’s true.

[MadyGirl1987]

Give me Phoebe and Mike over Ross and Rachel every day. I hated them together, they both brought out the worst of pettiness and jealousy in each other, and the only reason I'm glad they got back together in the finale is that they can make each other miserable instead of inflicting their drama on other people. It's amazing to me the show fumbled their big romance when they were able to write good relationships like Monica and Chandler and Phoebe and Mike where they were able to keep people invested without making the characters unlikable by causing drawn out drama and forced tension. I know Ross and Rachel were end game from the earliest days, but the writers/showrunners should have seen that the characters had evolved beyond that romance and that they should let them stay apart. By being open to seeing how the story developed, they were able to write the best relationship of the series with Monica and Chandler, so they are able to pivot(heh) with a storyline if it's better served by going in a different direction. Why not do that with Ross and Rachel?

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 hour ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

By being open to seeing how the story developed, they were able to write the best relationship of the series with Monica and Chandler, so they are able to pivot(heh) with a storyline if it's better served by going in a different direction. Why not do that with Ross and Rachel?

Because, despite the opinion of many here, Ross and Rachel were a massively popular couple - and still are. The writers didn’t lean into Monica and Chandler because they felt it was the best story-wise, but because of the massive audience reaction. 

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Give me Phoebe and Mike over Ross and Rachel every day. I hated them together, they both brought out the worst of pettiness and jealousy in each other, and the only reason I'm glad they got back together in the finale is that they can make each other miserable instead of inflicting their drama on other people. It's amazing to me the show fumbled their big romance when they were able to write good relationships like Monica and Chandler and Phoebe and Mike where they were able to keep people invested without making the characters unlikable by causing drawn out drama and forced tension. I know Ross and Rachel were end game from the earliest days, but the writers/showrunners should have seen that the characters had evolved beyond that romance and that they should let them stay apart. By being open to seeing how the story developed, they were able to write the best relationship of the series with Monica and Chandler, so they are able to pivot(heh) with a storyline if it's better served by going in a different direction. Why not do that with Ross and Rachel?

Agreed. I wanted Rachel and Ross together in the sense that I wouldn't wish either one of them on anyone else.

[LexieLily]

TOW The Birth Mother was on yesterday. If Phoebe and Joey have dinners every week/month to talk about the other four (TOW The Cheesecakes, two seasons before), why doesn't she know that Joey doesn't share food? 

[Bort]

Because Phoebe never tried to eat off Joey’s plate?

[peacheslatour]

6 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Because Phoebe never tried to eat off Joey’s plate?

Joey did share food with her once. She came into Central Perk one day, she was off to work at the massage place and she asked joey for a bite of his muffin. He not only shared it with her, she took it and filled her thermos with his coffee. Maybe Pheebs got preferential treatment?

[bluegirl147]

23 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And second, Mike was a catch, maybe even too good for Phoebe.

I didn't see any chemistry between those two.  I love Paul Rudd and his character was OK but I just didn't feel like he and Phoebe clicked.  I'm on record as saying Phoebe was not one of my favorite characters.  But I did like her with Hank Azaria's character. 

15 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

The writers didn’t lean into Monica and Chandler because they felt it was the best story-wise, but because of the massive audience reaction. 

And I give the writers credit for that.  They could have ignored fan's wishes (as a lot of shows do) to write the story they originally wanted to write but they listened to fans and I'm sure also saw what fans saw which was Monica and Chandler just worked so well.  

15 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Because, despite the opinion of many here, Ross and Rachel were a massively popular couple - and still are.

When the show originally aired I wanted them together.  I did see the problematic issues in their relationship but much like people in problematic relationships I ignored them.  When I did a complete rewatch a few years back I still liked them together but understand why others don't. 

I remember reading somewhere that Ross and Rachel had so much turmoil that the writers were going to make sure Chandler and Monica were much more lighthearted. 

[chitowngirl]

13 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Because Phoebe never tried to eat off Joey’s plate?

 

13 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Joey did share food with her once. She came into Central Perk one day, she was off to work at the massage place and she asked joey for a bite of his muffin. He not only shared it with her, she took it and filled her thermos with his coffee. Maybe Pheebs got preferential treatment?

The difference is she asked Joey (well, not about the coffee!). She didn’t presume things on Joey’s plate were for everyone as his dates seemed to think.

[Bort]

52 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

The difference is she asked Joey (well, not about the coffee!).

She asked for that too. Phoebe asked for a bite of muffin and a sip of coffee, poured half the coffee in a thermos and took the whole muffin. That’s when Joey asked if she’d ever been bitten by a hungry Italian.

[Fool to cry]

Matt LeBlanc posted on his Instagram today

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

 

 

[LexieLily]

"And I guess you're keeping the 20 bucks you owe me" broke me all over again. Such a Joey/Chandler thing to say.

[AgathaC]

Courteney posted today, too:

https://people.com/courteney-cox-reflects-on-thousands-of-moments-with-on-screen-love-matthew-perry-8384542

[supposebly]

I'm crying again...

[WendyCR72]

All five of the others were obviously close to Matthew, but it was Matt and Courteney I figured who'd maybe take it just a bit harder, since Perry was their predominant scene partner on screen [due to Chandler being Joey's roommate and later married to Monica] as well as a friend off screen so - by that criteria - I was wondering if they would ever say more.

They have, and now I'm emotional again.

[WendyCR72]

Here is Courteney's direct Instagram post with what People quoted. There is a video there of the infamous London bed scene that is cute.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Czo5_9PSZJ2/?hl=en