Finding Your Roots With Henry Louis Gates Jr. - General Discussion

[OtterMommy]

Of all the previous guests, Scarlet Johannsen was the last one I would think would be related to Andy Cohen.

This was a 50/50 show for me.  I was completely disinterested in Andy Cohen and his industrious peddler ancestors.  However, I found Nina Totenberg's story to be fascinating and heartbreaking.  

[Miss Anne Thrope]

On 1/25/2021 at 5:15 PM, iMonrey said:

 

It often feels like the purpose of this show is to root out (no pun intended) branches of the family tree that were either enslaved or owned slaves. If you are white and you go on this show then yes, you should expect them to find some slave owners on your family tree somewhere because that's kind of the point of the show. "How does that make you feel" seems sort of confrontational but the celebs who participate should expect it going in.

 

17 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I agree with you although I don't know if I think it's the main point of the show.  I just think that if you look hard enough you can find some pretty awful stuff about a lot of otherwise great people, ...

 

Having also watched Who Do You Think You Are, I think Finding Your Roots tries to take a -- deeper? more realistic?  even-handed? -- look at peoples' ancestors.  I very much enjoy both shows but feel like WDYTYA kept things super-positive in some cases.

The Rob Lowe episode (of WDYTYA) epitomized this for me; he just couldn't wait to find out an ancestor was "a patriot"  - the exact words he repeated ad nauseum -- in the American Revolution.  It turned out the ancestor started out as a Hessian and for most of the war fought for the British. (IIRC, after serving as a POW, the ancestor switched sides; but it's been a while, and I might be fuzzy on that.) Anyway, Lowe got to have as a final takeaway that his ancestor was indeed a patriot, and I think he then qualified for the Sons of the American Revolution, which made him very happy.

I think Dr. Gates tries to keep the tone of his show, and possibly the guests' expectations,  a little more down to earth, looking at the big picture of historical events and how the ancestors in question may have fit into that big picture.  So I think the "how does that make you feel" question feels normal; but that's just my take.

My family's dirty little secret is not slavery but something quite unsavory. My eighth great grandfather was the only person in US history to be hanged for

Spoiler

incest.

*Made a spoiler because, while I've had plenty of time to adjust to/accept it, the subject is pretty offensive.

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Of all the previous guests, Scarlet Johannsen was the last one I would think would be related to Andy Cohen.

This was a 50/50 show for me.  I was completely disinterested in Andy Cohen and his industrious peddler ancestors.  However, I found Nina Totenberg's story to be fascinating and heartbreaking.  

I was surprised that Andy didn't already know that Scarlet was half Jewish.  I thought he of anyone would know stuff like that about a major star.  I knew that before she even appeared on this show.

I enjoyed Andy's family history very much because I'm always fascinated hearing about Jewish ancestors that were not originally in the NYC area, where I'm from, and where my Jewish ancestors lived.  It's something rarely covered by anyone.  I have personally known of very few Jews that were not from the Northeast originally, or whose families originally lived there after coming to the US.

[ShelleySue]

I know that I'm late to the slavery discussion, but my husband's 4th great-grandfather was a Loyalist.  He was born in Massachusetts in 1746 and moved then moved to Nova Scotia during the Revolutionary War where he became an MP.  I've done research on him and I can't find any record of him owning slaves, but he was pro-slavery and tried to pass pro-slavery legislation.  He also defended slave owners in court because in Canada (British territory) the burden was on the slave owners to prove that people were enslaved not free. So slavery isn't just something that was going on in the South in the US/colonies.

 

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

 

I enjoyed Andy's family history very much because I'm always fascinated hearing about Jewish ancestors that were not originally in the NYC area, where I'm from, and where my Jewish ancestors lived.  It's something rarely covered by anyone.  I have personally known of very few Jews that were not from the Northeast originally, or whose families originally lived there after coming to the US.

I specifically liked his story because my family settled in Chicago and not from the northeast (although my maternal grandmother is from Toronto before heading to Chicago where her younger siblings were born).  I wondered if Andy's parents met because both of their families were in a similar business or if that was just a coincidence.

It's funny that when they have two people on instead of three I wonder how they have a show with three people because there barely seems to be enough time for two.

[OtterMommy]

I enjoyed this episode, although I didn't find either Lynch's or Gaffigan's family story especially noteworthy.  I've never been a big fan of Jane Lynch, but I think that is more because of the roles she has played.  She was delightful as herself here.

Also, taking a shot every time Gates says, "Can you believe that?" would be a dangerous drinking game.

[One Imaginary Girl]

Something I found odd was that the counties Jane's and Jim's ancestors came from weren't explicitly stated, though I could see Mayo on a form. Irish-Americans usually mention the county when discussing genealogy, and it helps place the town since there's only 32 counties.

[Razzberry]

1 hour ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

Something I found odd was that the counties Jane's and Jim's ancestors came from weren't explicitly stated, though I could see Mayo on a form. Irish-Americans usually mention the county when discussing genealogy, and it helps place the town since there's only 32 counties.

 I think he named the townland, but there's thousands of townlands in each county and they're not really towns anyway but a collection of cabins, so it was annoying.  I can't remember the name but I thought it began with a D?  Lynch's ancestral home actually looked pretty good compared to mine. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_townlands_of_County_Mayo

Edited February 3, 2021 by Razzberry

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Razzberry said:

 I think he named the townland, but there's thousands of townlands in each county and they're not really towns anyway but a collection of cabins, so it was annoying.  I can't remember the name but I thought it began with a D?  Lynch's ancestral home actually looked pretty good compared to mine. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_townlands_of_County_Mayo

I thought it looked a lot like my husband's ancestral home, which in his case is the house is father grew up in with many siblings.  It's been extensively renovated so it looks pretty good.  This is it when we visited it in 2005.  It's in Donegal, BTW.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Yeah No

[iMonrey]

Quote

Also, taking a shot every time Gates says, "Can you believe that?" would be a dangerous drinking game.

Or "How does that make you feel?"

I found the Irish stories pretty interesting myself. But it's sad and disheartening to know the kind of prejudice they experienced in the 1800s is still going on today. You look back at these adverts and newspapers that say "No Irish" and you just kind of chuckle and go "really? What were they thinking?" And yet anti-immigration sentiment is just as strong today as it ever was. It's so weird. I don't know where these people think they came from. Did they think they just sprang up from American earth?

[Lovecat]

I was impressed that both Dr. Gates and Jim Gaffigan nailed the pronunciation of "Schuylkill."  That's a hard one for non-Pennsylvanians 🙂

[Razzberry]

I can spend days "driving" around Ireland on Google Earth, that's how I found my ancestor's old townlands.  I even found the graveyard but couldn't get close enough to read names.  It's wonderful how many Irish have restored the old houses when possible, or at least not torn them down.

When Gates talked about how many Irish women were deprived of a dowry and therefore doomed to spinsterhood,  I think he was only partly right.  In many areas they were so poor that any meaningful dowry was out of the question anyway.  According to my grandmother the girls were not exactly thrilled with the prospect of becoming a poor farmer's wife and living in a tiny cabin with 8 people and a pig in the winter.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Razzberry

[Driad]

Glad Prof. Gates mentioned "no, your ancestor's name was not changed by immigration officials." He is correct, but that story keeps going around.

I would have liked to hear how poor families managed to pay for the first family member to emigrate.

[blueray]

15 minutes ago, Driad said:

Glad Prof. Gates mentioned "no, your ancestor's name was not changed by immigration officials." He is correct, but that story keeps going around.

I would have liked to hear how poor families managed to pay for the first family member to emigrate.

I was glad when he mentioned Jews  do it too. My family story has always been that they changed our name at Alice Island. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by blueray

[deirdra]

2 hours ago, Driad said:

I would have liked to hear how poor families managed to pay for the first family member to emigrate.

Many came as indentured servants via agencies or churches that would place them to work as a housemaid or labourer for a family that paid their passage and a certain amount after they had completed 5 years of servitude.  

Edited February 3, 2021 by deirdra

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, blueray said:

I was glad when he mentioned Jews  do it too. My family story has always been that they changed our name at Alice Island. 

Did you mean Ellis Island?

My Jewish side's family name has 3 different spellings because they all spelled it differently.  Even siblings within the same family that came over at the same time.  One of them was my maiden name.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Yeah No

[Miss Anne Thrope]

6 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I can spend days "driving" around Ireland on Google Earth, that's how I found my ancestor's old townlands.  I even found the graveyard but couldn't get close enough to read names.

 

Beautiful pictures!  Have you checked whether anything from the graveyard has been uploaded to Find A Grave?

https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery-browse/Ireland/County-Mayo?id=state_1219

Just a thought.

[Arcadiasw]

21 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

 

Also, taking a shot every time Gates says, "Can you believe that?" would be a dangerous drinking game.

We should do that! 🤣🤣

[Dehumidifier]

The Irish faced discrimination but they did have one big advantage over other immigrants -- most of them spoke English.  Some, from the far west of Ireland, might have only known Gaelic.

[Dehumidifier]

8 hours ago, Driad said:

Glad Prof. Gates mentioned "no, your ancestor's name was not changed by immigration officials." He is correct, but that story keeps going around.

I would have liked to hear how poor families managed to pay for the first family member to emigrate.

Very few people were rejected and sent back to where they came from, another popular story. The shipping companies would have to return people at their expense so they tried to insure that only the healthy got on board in the first place. 

"Just 2 percent of immigrants at Ellis Island were denied entry to the United States.".

Also: "Most Immigrants Arriving at Ellis Island in 1907 Were Processed in a Few Hours

No passports or visas were needed to enter the United States through Ellis Island at this time. In fact, no papers were required at all."

..www.history.com 

 

[Quof]

13 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I can spend days "driving" around Ireland on Google Earth, that's how I found my ancestor's old townlands. 

Well, that is how Dev Patel found his mom in "Lion".

[blueray]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Did you mean Ellis Island?

My Jewish side's family name has 3 different spellings because they all spelled it differently.  Even siblings within the same family that came over at the same time.  One of them was my maiden name.

yes I do lol

[Lovecat]

16 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Did you mean Ellis Island?

My Jewish side's family name has 3 different spellings because they all spelled it differently.  Even siblings within the same family that came over at the same time.  One of them was my maiden name.

My great grandfather's last name was Schneider when he emigrated from Russia/Latvia to England in the mid-1800's, but when he came to the US in 1891 or so he dubbed himself Goldstein and that was that--we've never been able to find any record of him changing his name legally here in the US.  When his wife, mother-in-law, and 4 small children followed him over to the US a few months later, however, they are all on the passenger manifest with the surname "Meyer"...which was his FIRST name!  A couple of the kids' names are garbled, too ("Ethel" for Yetta and "Jenny" for Annie).  I can only speculate that the few years they spent in England weren't enough for his wife to get a good grasp on the language, and there were some mix-ups when she had to register them for the journey.  I just imagine her stubbornly repeating her husband's name each time the officer asked for the family name.  Interestingly, GGFather's half brother also came to the US, but under his birth surname (Meyer, if you can believe it; their mum had 2 husbands, with surnames Schneider and Meyer...after she had already had one son named Meyer), and legally changed it to Goldstein after he arrived.  We can only speculate that though they were half-brothers, they wanted to have the same surname to build their families around in the US.   

[Razzberry]

21 hours ago, Miss Anne Thrope said:

Beautiful pictures!  Have you checked whether anything from the graveyard has been uploaded to Find A Grave?

https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery-browse/Ireland/County-Mayo?id=state_1219

Thank you, that's such a great resource!  I think I found the cemetery, which they list as "an ancient burial ground" and recognized the names of some of their neighbors but have yet to find where most of them are buried. The entire clan lived within a 20 mile radius of Ballaghaderreen so they can't be too lost.

My grandma was 18 when she emigrated by herself, but a female relative had come before and they had no problem getting work in the numerous textile mills in Fall River.  I even found their flat still standing, which would have been new to them, with a real floor, so my nightmare of a 'Gangs of New York' existence was greatly relieved.  lol

I remember reading somewhere that the cost of voyages was less than we'd think due to competition from all shipping lines when immigration was in full swing.  IIRC it was like $50 - $100.  The funny thing thing is she ended up marrying a boy from the townland next to hers growing up who arrived a few years later (my grandfather).

[iMonrey]

Quote

Glad Prof. Gates mentioned "no, your ancestor's name was not changed by immigration officials." He is correct, but that story keeps going around.

I did find it interesting he claimed "nobody's" name was ever changed by Ellis Island officials. I had always been told our surname was "anglicized" in this way but it turns out my grandfather is the one who changed the spelling. 

That said, I'm quite sure there were some instances where difficult to pronounce foreign names were misspelled on passenger lists, deliberately or not.

[meep.meep]

It sounds like that's what happened to Jim Gaffigan's family.  The name was actually Gavagan but it wasn't written very clearly on the shipping manifest.  It's not a big stretch from Gavagan to Gaffigan.

I have an Indian guy working for me whose wife's last name is his first name.  They had trouble with the paperwork and it was never worth it to try to straighten it out.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I did find it interesting he claimed "nobody's" name was ever changed by Ellis Island officials. I had always been told our surname was "anglicized" in this way but it turns out my grandfather is the one who changed the spelling. 

My grandfather "anglicized" his Germanic Jewish last name voluntarily.  No one else in his family spelled it that way despite the fact that he and most of his siblings were born in Jack the Ripper's era in London's East End.  My grandfather, however, being one of the youngest, fancied himself to be quite the consummate English gentleman, so he may have encouraged them to spell it that way at Ellis Island if he didn't already spell it that way in England.  Interestingly there are other people in the US who spell it the same way he did.  Some of those people might even be related to us but I've never found any connection.

[shapeshifter]

On 1/28/2021 at 12:13 PM, ShelleySue said:

I wondered if Andy's parents met because both of their families were in a similar business or if that was just a coincidence.

Like Andy Cohen's ancestors, my father's father was also from "The Pale of Settlement" where he drove carts of sugar beets to sell, and then later, in Brooklyn, eventually had a small dry goods store. But what really struck me was how, when I looked at Andy's light-colored-eye ancestors, I felt like I was looking at my father's and his parents' and his siblings' eyes. My brown-eyed mother used to say about my father's family that there was something similar about "the set of their eyes," which I have too --but Andy Cohen does not, which he might have been seeing when he commented on their light eye color unlike his own.

 

On 2/3/2021 at 7:31 PM, Yeah No said:

My Jewish side's family name has 3 different spellings because they all spelled it differently.  Even siblings within the same family that came over at the same time.  One of them was my maiden name.

I've seen other spellings of my maiden name outside the immediate family, which I assumed was because the Russian alphabet has different letters. But now I can think of many different reasons, none of which may be true.

 

I enjoyed Nina talking about how her grandma was a bit of a snob about here German Jewish roots because my mother was that way too, even though only her mother's family was from Germany. Similarly too, my mother would never talk about those who did not make it out. She would only said that they were a "small" family and then get a dark look on her face.

[mertensia]

On 2/4/2021 at 9:36 PM, Yeah No said:

My grandfather "anglicized" his Germanic Jewish last name voluntarily.  No one else in his family spelled it that way despite the fact that he and most of his siblings were born in Jack the Ripper's era in London's East End.  My grandfather, however, being one of the youngest, fancied himself to be quite the consummate English gentleman, so he may have encouraged them to spell it that way at Ellis Island if he didn't already spell it that way in England.  Interestingly there are other people in the US who spell it the same way he did.  Some of those people might even be related to us but I've never found any connection.

My either great or great great grandfather - I can never remember which - decided our 12 letter surname was too long. So he chopped off the final letter. Like, why? Why only one.  He did that here in the US; I'm guessing it wasn't hard to do in the 1870s or 1880s.

[SophiaD]

Quote

Many came as indentured servants via agencies or churches that would place them to work as a housemaid or laborer for a family that paid their passage and a certain amount after they had completed 5 years of servitude.  

According to family folklore, my grandfather did that.  He came over from pre-Revolutionary Russia as a young adolescent to get an education, and worked on a farm for a few years before going to college.  I have no idea how he paid for it, but he got his education! 

Sadly, I don't think he ever saw his family again. 

Tonight's episode was fascinating, but did Tony Shalhoub really not know what was going on in the Ottoman Empire, especially in Armenia, at that time?

Christopher Meloni's unabashed glee over finding out the identify of his unexpected cousin was just delightful.

[Annber03]

Ah, hey, here's the forum! Good to find it.

Watched this one tonight 'cause of Shalhoub, and good lord, his family history was utterly heartbreaking. No wonder he didn't know a lot of these stories, I can definitely see where it'd be incredibly hard for his parents and relatives to open up about those kinds of intense tragedies like that. Some people just prefer to internalize all that pain. It was kind of eerie when Gates was talking about how at least half of the people one knew in 1914 were dead by 1918-given current events with the pandemic, thinking about it in those terms really drove home how dramatic that loss was. 

Sophie's letter where she talked so openly about wanting to die...damn 😞. Much admiration for the effort and risk she took to bring her siblings here-doing all that at 17, that's pretty badass. 

On a much lighter note, pretty cool to see who he's related to :D. And I liked listening to him talk, too-I'm so used to seeing him being so funny and goofy and whatnot, so it was interesting to see how quiet and soft spoken he was here.

[blueray]

Tony story was very interesting and depressing. But yeah the fact that his aunt got her (& her siblings) out at the age of 17 was crazy. Then factor in that he knew her but nothing about this. I guess it's the kind of story where it's not retold due to the trauma associated with it. 

As for the other guy. It was good too, just not as interesting as Tony's. And my husband and I made the mistake of talking during his second scene. And completely missed who was sold to Canada. We thought they were still in Italy lol. Then of course it came clear that they were talking about two different people. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by blueray

[shapeshifter]

Both Chistopher Meloni's and Tony Shaloub's histories were so rich (in spite of the orphans!) that I wish there had been a separate episode for each. I kept getting a little confused. I may rewatch in the future. 

About families not talking about hardships: 
I think it's often because of a sense of shame. Being orphaned was a stigma.
In contrast, my father's mother talked a lot about losing everything when they left Russia, as if she wanted to explain why they were not wealthy in this country. 
There's also Survivor's Guilt, which can be a great silencer.

 

 

4 hours ago, blueray said:

my husband and I made the mistake of talking during his second scene. And completely missed who was sold to Canada. We thought they were still in Italy lol. Then of course it came clear that they were talking about two different people.

You can rewatch here, and easily scroll to the part you missed: https://www.pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/the-shirts-on-their-backs

 

 

13 hours ago, mertensia said:

My either great or great great grandfather - I can never remember which - decided our 12 letter surname was too long. So he chopped off the final letter. Like, why? Why only one.  He did that here in the US; I'm guessing it wasn't hard to do in the 1870s or 1880s.

It might have been something as simple as it didn't all fit on the line. 😉

 

 

[Dehumidifier]

My first landlady had done some genealogical research. She knew someone in her line was a "child of the hospital" in Italy, like Meloni's ancestor. In her mind, I don't know how she got the "information," that meant she was descended from a count. She had stationary made with "Countess G...etc." printed across the top. Yes, she was a nut.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Dehumidifier

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Dehumidifier said:

My first landlady had done some genealogical research. She knew someone in her line was a "child of the hospital" in Italy, like Meloni's ancestor. In her mind, I don't know how she got the "information," that meant she was descended from a count. She had stationary made with "Countess G...etc." printed across the top. Yes, she was a nut.

Actually, I went there in my mind for Meloni until they emphasized that it was a town of about 400 people “in the middle of nowhere.” 
And when Meloni spoke about how being given up at birth could have meant many things in a bigger city like Milan, I assumed he too thought of the illegitimate heir possibilities —his ancestor been born in a large city. 
Was your landlady from a big city?

I wondered if they were sure it was common practice to send such orphans out on their own at age 12, or if maybe instead the nurse who cared for him died or married a man who didn’t want her to have anything to do with an orphan. 

[HelenBaby]

2 hours ago, Dehumidifier said:

My first landlady had done some genealogical research. She knew someone in her line was a "child of the hospital" in Italy, like Meloni's ancestor. In her mind, I don't know how she got the "information," that meant she was descended from a count. She had stationary made with "Countess G...etc." printed across the top. Yes, she was a nut.

There’s an old movie based on a book by Raphael Sabbatini (I think that’s his name) called Anthony Adverse and that’s basically the story. He’s put in a foundling wheel but he’s secretly the son of a noble person who impregnated the wife of another rich guy. 😂 That’s all I thought of after that was revealed although I didn’t actually think Meloni’s ancestor was a count or anything. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by HelenBaby

[Dehumidifier]

37 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Was your landlady from a big city?

 

Her parents were the immigrants. I don't recall her ever saying what specific area they came from. Her maiden name is most common in Tuscany, per this website: https://www.italianames.com/italian-last-names-maps.

[carrps]

On 2/4/2021 at 3:30 PM, iMonrey said:

I did find it interesting he claimed "nobody's" name was ever changed by Ellis Island officials. I had always been told our surname was "anglicized" in this way but it turns out my grandfather is the one who changed the spelling. 

That said, I'm quite sure there were some instances where difficult to pronounce foreign names were misspelled on passenger lists, deliberately or not.

When the Ellis Island (I love the Alice Island typo!) records were first digitized a few decades ago, I tried to find my maternal grandparents, because they were both (separate) immigrants. I couldn't find either with any of the possible misspellings I could think of. So, I assumed they must not have come through there. Later, when much more data was available on line, I was able to look up my gf's ship (my sister was named after it, so I knew what it was; I was named after him. Think my mom loved her dad?), and I found his date of immigration so I could look through the actual photo-images of the manifest. I found him. Of the eight letters in his entire name, they misspelled three of them. But he must have told the immigration officer what his name actually was, because it wasn't actually changed at all. My gm came in through the port of Baltimore in the 1890s. My gf came through Ellis Island (yay!) in 1903.

One of my maternal uncles did change his name only sorta-kinda voluntarily. His first "official" paperwork was when he enlisted in the Armed Forces, and they changed one letter in his name. It was too much of a hassle to change once it was in the system, so his line kept the misspelling.

Oops, ETA that I found both stories last night so terribly sad. I kept tearing up. I also was grinning like crazy when I saw Meloni's reaction to his relative. And how humbling to know your name came from your ggf having a melon head?

Edited February 10, 2021 by carrps
to add stuff

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, carrps said:

And how humbling to know your name came from your ggf having a melon head?

My first thought was that when his ggf was "wrapped in rags" that his entire swaddled body appeared to be the shape and size of a melon. 

[Driad]

Immigrants sometimes changed their names when they got jobs. If  someone badly needed a job, and the boss said, "Your name is too hard to pronounce, I'll call you [simpler name]," the worker was often willing to go along with it.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 1/28/2021 at 8:24 AM, Yeah No said:

I was surprised that Andy didn't already know that Scarlet was half Jewish.  I thought he of anyone would know stuff like that about a major star.  I knew that before she even appeared on this show.

I enjoyed Andy's family history very much because I'm always fascinated hearing about Jewish ancestors that were not originally in the NYC area, where I'm from, and where my Jewish ancestors lived.  It's something rarely covered by anyone.  I have personally known of very few Jews that were not from the Northeast originally, or whose families originally lived there after coming to the US.

I will have to watch that Andy Cohen episode. I too am surprised, as he’s such a newshound. That info about Scarjo has been around.

I’m another NY born Jew, but I know people from various Jewish Diaspora outposts who end up here in NY. Philly, Brazil, London, Fargo, Montreal, to name a few. They always stand out as curiosities.  It’s funny to listen to the Londoners speak Yiddish expressions with a cockney accent. 

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, Driad said:

Immigrants sometimes changed their names when they got jobs. If  someone badly needed a job, and the boss said, "Your name is too hard to pronounce, I'll call you [simpler name]," the worker was often willing to go along with it.

While the Ellis Island name changing myth seems to be just that, immigrants often changed their names.  Sometimes it wasn't so much because their names were hard to pronounce (although I'm sure that did happen), but because they were more employable with a more American sounding name.  Prejudice was not just directed at the Irish.

My mother's first husband came from a German family with the last name Bieber (yes, like Justin).  However, in early 19th century North Dakota that sounded too Native American and it made them a target for hostilities, so they went to a cemetery to find a new name.  They just happened to find the only Polish cemetery in the area and came out with Charnetzki as a name, which I'm sure came with its own set of problems.

[mertensia]

17 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Both Chistopher Meloni's and Tony Shaloub's histories were so rich (in spite of the orphans!) that I wish there had been a separate episode for each. I kept getting a little confused. I may rewatch in the future. 

About families not talking about hardships: 
I think it's often because of a sense of shame. Being orphaned was a stigma.
In contrast, my father's mother talked a lot about losing everything when they left Russia, as if she wanted to explain why they were not wealthy in this country. 
There's also Survivor's Guilt, which can be a great silencer.

 

 

You can rewatch here, and easily scroll to the part you missed: https://www.pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/the-shirts-on-their-backs

 

 

It might have been something as simple as it didn't all fit on the line. 😉

 

 

It would have been a piece of cake to shave our last name down to five letters. Like whittling (for example) Brinkerman down to Brink. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by mertensia

[Razzberry]

18 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

My mother's first husband came from a German family with the last name Bieber (yes, like Justin).  However, in early 19th century North Dakota that sounded too Native American and it made them a target for hostilities, so they went to a cemetery to find a new name.  They just happened to find the only Polish cemetery in the area and came out with Charnetzki as a name, which I'm sure came with its own set of problems.

Amerindians either have typical surnames that run the gamut (Smith & Johnson being the most common) or more descriptive names like 'He Who Tells Tall Tales', which could describe your mother's first husband. 😉

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, Razzberry said:

Amerindians either have typical surnames that run the gamut (Smith & Johnson being the most common) or more descriptive names like 'He Who Tells Tall Tales', which could describe your mother's first husband. 😉

Very true!  We actually heard this story from his mother (he died before I was born but we were still close to his family).  Knowing them, this decision was probably more of their own prejudices than anything.  By that I mean, I don't think others would have thought that the name "Bieber" sounded Native American (because it sounded like Beaver), but rather that was their own view of Native Americans.

Whatever it was, they did end up facing some hostility as the "Polish" family in the almost completely German and Norwegian town.

[Razzberry]

I'm also skeptical about this "melon head" story.  Most heads are round and not shaped like bananas so WTF?  Sometimes I wonder if Gates just makes up this stuff on the spot.

 

[shapeshifter]

It's common in the U.S. for adults to refer fondly to babies as "pun'kin" (pumpkin) --which I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a reference to something being found in a pumpkin patch, and, if so, the origin of that reference, or if it's a reference to the smooth, baldness of a pumpkin. Anyway, that might be similar to the melon reference. Any Italian speakers here? Or anyone with Italian-speaking relatives (the older the better, and especially if they were from that part of Italy)?

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

I'm also skeptical about this "melon head" story.  Most heads are round and not shaped like bananas so WTF?  Sometimes I wonder if Gates just makes up this stuff on the spot.

 Sure, I think HLG Jr. was just pointing out that Meloni's name means "melon," and might have an interesting reference. 

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I'm also skeptical about this "melon head" story.  Most heads are round and not shaped like bananas so WTF?  Sometimes I wonder if Gates just makes up this stuff on the spot.

 

Actually babies' heads do tend to be more melon like right after birth.  The head elongates going through the birth canal and then "round up" when the fontanelles close.

[Driad]

Didn't HLG Jr. say that abandoned children were sometimes given names based on their appearance?  If he did, one hopes he knows other examples.  In Italy, some of these children were given the surname Esposito, which means exposed or abandoned.

I first saw a foundling wheel on an episode of MASH (at a Christian church in Korea).

[carolkatsc]

I love this show, when the fate of Tony Shaloub's grandfather in Armenia was revealed I was very interested in what Dr. Gates would say about the Armenian Genocide. Since I am Armenian, I have never not known about about the Armenians who were slaughtered by the Turks. All four of my grandparents were from that part of the world. Three were able to escape to the US, but my maternal grandmother was homeless and wandered through the countryside for seven years before she was able to reach a refugee camp run by the Red Cross. Dr. Gates' brief comment about the genocide being simply due to the Turks reaction to political and social uprisings by the Armenians was disappointing to say the least.  Armenians all over the world have been struggling for years to have this recognized for what it truly was, an ethnic cleansing. 

[PattyG]

On 2/12/2021 at 7:16 AM, carolkatsc said:

I love this show, when the fate of Tony Shaloub's grandfather in Armenia was revealed I was very interested in what Dr. Gates would say about the Armenian Genocide. Since I am Armenian, I have never not known about about the Armenians who were slaughtered by the Turks. All four of my grandparents were from that part of the world. Three were able to escape to the US, but my maternal grandmother was homeless and wandered through the countryside for seven years before she was able to reach a refugee camp run by the Red Cross. Dr. Gates' brief comment about the genocide being simply due to the Turks reaction to political and social uprisings by the Armenians was disappointing to say the least.  Armenians all over the world have been struggling for years to have this recognized for what it truly was, an ethnic cleansing. 

I also noticed that he avoided calling it a genocide, but used the term massacre instead. I know it's not like massacre has a positive connotation but genocide has another added dimension.