Finding Your Roots With Henry Louis Gates Jr. - General Discussion

[blueray]

I just recently caught up and liked the last few episodes. I do agree that both Black and Jewish celebrities are featured a lot but I tend to enjoy those episodes the most. I feel for both groups have interesting stories as we do not know much about our histories as they were lot of the times wiped out and how the ancestors had to work really hard to get where they are now.  The last part being the same for all immigrant groups.

As a Jewish person, I hear the stories and relate (sadly) as I know I lost family in the holocaust, even though I do not know who they are as no one wants to talk about it. I feel connecting to these stories and seeing what they can actually find is a amazing. I imagine it is the same for African Americans, but I obviously can't speak for them. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by blueray

[deirdra]

Aspects of finding the hardest to trace ancestors apply to lots of people who hit a dead end using the commonly available records.  It gives ideas of where else to look for clues to trace.

One thing I wish they'd cover is people with really common names (like John Smith) who moved or emigrated alone and we don't know where they went.  We can find 100s of John Smiths born in about the same year showing up in subsequent censuses around the globe but don't know which one (if any) is "ours".

Edited May 9, 2021 by deirdra

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, deirdra said:

One thing I wish they'd cover is people with really common names (like John Smith) who moved or emigrated alone and we don't know where they went.  We can find 100s of John Smiths born in about the same year showing up in subsequent censuses around the globe but don't know which one (if any) is "ours".

Yes. They barely touched on the issue of finding relatives with common last names with Lewis Black's surname. Now that you mention it, @deirdra, I wish they'd elaborated a bit on how they got from "Black" to "Bleche," but, in his case, I think it was just that they found that named relative who was the parent of the ancestor surnamed "Black," and I guess that's usually how it works.
My ancestors with a less common family name adopted that name in the 1850s, as did others, none of whom shared the pre-adoptive name, which is an entirely different conundrum. 

[Mannahatta]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

There was someone on the show (mentioned upthread) who did meet present day “family” heretofore unknown owing to a brief romance between a recently deceased parent and a foreign exchange student. The previously unknown family seemed happy to meet a rich and famous family member.
However, a very similar discovery by my daughter’s friend’s family via Ancestry gene data, instead just caused a lot of anguish.

Yes! That was Andy Samberg. I never was into his comedy but that episode was one of my all time favorites. He seemed like a really nice guy whose main interest was to find out the background of his mother, who had been adopted. Plus his mother appreciated learning that she was the romantic result of an affair between two highly educated star crossed lovers. I think I definitely have a preference for the episodes that find recent surprises. And by recent I mean within four generations. By then you're up to 16 great-great grandparents so it can get a bit unwieldly.

Speaking of surprises, one of my friends, who already has seven siblings, recently discovered through ancestry.com that he also has a much older half-brother. My first thought was that the brother was from the father. But no, turned out to be from his mother. Apparently her first born was "born out of wedlock" in the late 1940s and was adopted by a loving family. My friend spoke to his half-brother on the phone and found that they both had very similar interests. So, no anguish there. But it just goes to show that you really need to be prepared for the unexpected when you send your DNA out into the universe.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Mannahatta
Needed to clarify what I meant by "recent". I guess I don't care if someone was descended from Charlemagne. Lol

[Cherpumple]

I liked the Roy Woods and Lewis Black episode, but it left me with questions. First, they said that Roy's father was 63 when jr/III was born, so I'm curious how old his mother was. As far as I remember, he didn't mention his mother at all during the episode, so I wonder if his parents were married or not.

I was also confused about Lewis Black's family. He said that he had talked to his grandfather about their history, especially about what it was like to live in Palestine in the early 1900s (he hated it). He also said that he didn't have a clue about what happened to his great-grandparents after they split up in Palestine. But then it was revealed that both great-grandparents eventually moved close to their sons (Lewis's grandfather) in the US, and lived there until their deaths. So, why didn't Lewis know that if he had spoken to his grandfather about the family history? The whole great-grandparent thing was muddled to me, and I agree with other posters that the reunion/remarriage may not have been happy.

[Mermaid Under]

Quote

First, they said that Roy's father was 63 when jr/III was born, so I'm curious how old his mother was.

Pretty young, I think.  As of 2020, she was still living, and looks to be in her 70s.  

[LizDC]

 

[Suzn]

2 hours ago, LizDC said:

 

I can hardly wait!  I need those shows now!

[OtterMommy]

I just recently finished David Chang's memoir, so hopefully I'm over my strong feelings of distaste in him by January.  But, on the other hand, KATHRYN HAHN!

[Mermaid Under]

I'm looking forward to the new season, even though I only recognized about 50%  or less of the folks in the preview.  Anita Hill - I know she is an accomplished academic and a lawyer, but so are a lot of other black women.  Would she really have gotten Gates (or his producer's) attention if she hadn't testified against Clarence Thomas?  And if they do mention that part of her history (and how could they not)  I'm looking forward to seeing how they stretch to tie that into genealogy.

[Mermaid Under]

Rewatched yet another rerun - George R. R. Martin and Andy Samberg.   Had to look up both of their names to make sure I got them right, not really familiar with either (no cable TV, no Game of Thrones).  I remember when the researchers discovered that LL Cool J's grandparents had adopted his mother, and though she suspected, her parents never told her.  They were careful about telling him off camera.   I can't believe how differently he approached a similar situation with George R. R. Martin.  

[deirdra]

I love it when they turn the page to see a photo of their cousin and it turns out to be Henry Louis Gates Jr. or Kevin Bacon.

[Dehumidifier]

18 hours ago, deirdra said:

I love it when they turn the page to see a photo of their cousin and it turns out to be Henry Louis Gates Jr. or Kevin Bacon.

I recently did the Ancestry DNA test. Every soften I get a notification of a cousin. Some of them are second cousins I actually know. Second cousin means we share great grandparents. The amount of DNA we share is only 3%. 

[meep.meep]

On 11/27/2021 at 4:12 PM, deirdra said:

I love it when they turn the page to see a photo of their cousin and it turns out to be Henry Louis Gates Jr. or Kevin Bacon.

The guy who got John Lewis looked like he won the lottery.

Bernie Sanders and Larry David getting each other was really funny.

[Constant Viewer]

6 hours ago, meep.meep said:

The guy who got John Lewis looked like he won the lottery.

Who wouldn't feel that way? Lucky guy.

[shapeshifter]

New episodes tonight: 

• Rebecca Hall and Lee Daniels
• David Chang and Raul Esparza.

Edited January 5, 2022 by shapeshifter

[buttersister]

That put David Chang back on his heels. When he recovers, I hope he finds comfort in telling his kids about their family.

[blueray]

I knew there was a new episode tonight but was surprised when there were two :). I wonder why they chose to air them both instead of waiting to next week to air the David Chang & Raul Esparza episodes.

[Mermaid Under]

Quote

I wonder why they chose to air them both instead of waiting to next week to air the David Chang & Raul Esparza episodes.

This.  Especially since they produce so few episodes (even before COVID) and rerun them so many times.  Why waste two new episodes on one night?

I watched the first episode and recorded the second, so I haven't watched David Chang yet.  Someone upthread mentioned he was quite an a$$, but I don't remember if any of it was sexual harassment.  It made me think about Garrison Keillor - they've never aired his episode.

[OtterMommy]

54 minutes ago, Mermaid Under said:

I watched the first episode and recorded the second, so I haven't watched David Chang yet.  Someone upthread mentioned he was quite an a$$, but I don't remember if any of it was sexual harassment.  It made me think about Garrison Keillor - they've never aired his episode.

I have yet to watch it, but I believe I was the one who commented on David Chang.  Fortunately, his general assishness is not of the sexual harrassment variety (as far as chefs go, he's not perfect, but he's better than most men in his field in that department).  I read his memoir and there was something hard, almost cruel, about him at times, about which he seemed almost clueless.  He does battle with mental illness and he is aware of that, but some of the behavior he documented in that book went beyond that.  Still, it was not anything that would lead to them canceling his episode.

That being said, I'm interested to see if watching him on this show changes my feelings about him.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

I watched the first episode and recorded the second, so I haven't watched David Chang yet.  Someone upthread mentioned he was quite an a$$, but I don't remember if any of it was sexual harassment.  It made me think about Garrison Keillor - they've never aired his episode.

I missed the first and watched the second (with David Chang and Raul Esparza). 
They skipped the DNA bit. Was it included in the first episode with Rebecca Hall and Lee Daniels?

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

I have yet to watch it, but I believe I was the one who commented on David Chang.  Fortunately, his general assishness is not of the sexual harrassment variety (as far as chefs go, he's not perfect, but he's better than most men in his field in that department).  I read his memoir and there was something hard, almost cruel, about him at times, about which he seemed almost clueless.  He does battle with mental illness and he is aware of that, but some of the behavior he documented in that book went beyond that.  Still, it was not anything that would lead to them canceling his episode.

That being said, I'm interested to see if watching him on this show changes my feelings about him.

I never heard of David Chang before, so all I know is from this episode and a quick Google because he was on it. He apologized for making fun of his grandmother when he was a kid. He and his brothers did it together.
It reminded me of how my mother used to sneer at people (like her mother-in-law) whose dress and way of life were "just off the boat." I know that's a title of a show, but it's also a phrase my mother used. She also belittled "farmers."
I've seen others who are insecure belittle anyone who might not be quite as hip as they are in an effort to elevate themselves -- at least in their own minds.

I thought Raul Esparza had some bad press about his behavior, but I don't recall specifically. I've just always appreciated his acting, and during this segment he was just as engaging, IMO. I thought it was interesting that he had a great-something-grand relative who was also involved in the arts whom he had never heard of.

[carrps]

Loved the Rebecca Hall/Lee Daniel episode. What a twisty history Hall has had! That's wonderful that they could tie up all those loose ends. It was also kind of funny that both of them had claims of Native American ancestry in the family, but the DNA proved it wrong.

 

[tljgator]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

They skipped the DNA bit. Was it included in the first episode with Rebecca Hall and Lee Daniels?

Yep, shapshifter -- they did both the "are you related to anyone else who's been on the show" and they very interesting thing I quite like, where they actually have to use the DNA to find relatives because something is missing for some reason in the paper trail.

Lee Daniels' "cousin" was:

Spoiler

Mia Farrow

 

1 hour ago, carrps said:

Loved the Rebecca Hall/Lee Daniel episode.

Me, too -- I always enjoy it when we get something that feels "different" or "new" to the show and Rebecca Hall's story, in particular, felt like this. Also like that they pointed out the strange family dynamic (whatever it might have been...as usual, I found myself worried that there may have been unaddressed rape / incest) happening with some folks that Lee Daniels actually knew IRL.

[carrps]

3 minutes ago, tljgator said:

Yep, shapshifter -- they did both the "are you related to anyone else who's been on the show" and they very interesting thing I quite like, where they actually have to use the DNA to find relatives because something is missing for some reason in the paper trail.

Lee Daniels' "cousin" was:

  Hide contents

Mia Farrow

 

Me, too -- I always enjoy it when we get something that feels "different" or "new" to the show and Rebecca Hall's story, in particular, felt like this. Also like that they pointed out the strange family dynamic (whatever it might have been...as usual, I found myself worried that there may have been unaddressed rape / incest) happening with some folks that Lee Daniels actually knew IRL.

Yeah. I was thinking Rebecca Hall could be in the DAR! So could I, but it's not a group I'm that interested in belonging to.

That whole Lee Daniel story with Rufus Hunter was confusing as heck! My sister kept replaying that bit and pausing on the tree links. I'm pretty sure there was no explicit incest. Sounds like he was just "having relations" with a mother and daughter, but neither were related to him. Unless I'm still confused. 🤪

[12catcrazy]

I watched both episodes last night.  I had never heard of Rebecca Hall and didn't realize that she was the director of "Passing".   Now beat me for saying this, but from the photos they showed us, I would've guessed that Rebecca's mother was bi-racial.       Such a weird concept that people had to "hide" their race but when you have insanity such as slavery and things such as the "one drop" law, people will do what they can do to make a better life for themselves. 

David Chang - I had never heard of him either until I had seen that Anthony Bourdain documentary called "Roadrunner".      Someone upthread mentioned that they read his memoir and didn't care much for him.   In "Roadrunner" he comes across as somebody who is a bit batshit and on the edge.  Guess when you have an overbearing parent who is pushing you to do something you don't want to do (be a Golf Pro) and you have the wherewithal to go up against that, you can be forgiven for being somewhat intense.  

Raul Esparza - I just adore him, so I enjoyed finding out more about his family.  And I've never read a bad thing about him - just the opposite actually.   Hopefully, whatever it was, it was youthful egomania or a blip and no Chris Noth type of douchness.           

[tljgator]

8 minutes ago, carrps said:

That whole Lee Daniel story with Rufus Hunter was confusing as heck! My sister kept replaying that bit and pausing on the tree links. I'm pretty sure there was no explicit incest. Sounds like he was just "having relations" with a mother and daughter, but neither were related to him. Unless I'm still confused. 🤪

I'm glad y'all replayed it to check, lol -- I only watched once and was like: "who in the what now?" I was a little worried he may have been in a relationship with the mother and raped the daughter (since they were all in the same household), but it was really hard to tell...and then Lee said his aunt, whom he remembered, never talked about any of it, so who knows?

One of y'all who hasn't watched yet, pay close attention and let us know, lol.

For what it's worth, one of my friends who is a writer in Hollywood said there was never much hidden / secret about Rebecca Hall's lineage for most folks (who seemed to presume it to be so, as she did).

I mostly know David Chang from that streaming Netflix show from early in the pandemic (at least it was early to me, I suppose I could've been late to the show) where he visits different kinds of food and compares it to what he knows, etc. Again, for what it's worth, a lot of folks in the forums seemed to find it redeeming of his personality, and as I new viewer who didn't know much, I wasn't any more put off by him than most "celebrity chef" types.

[Dehumidifier]

1 hour ago, carrps said:

Yeah. I was thinking Rebecca Hall could be in the DAR! So could I, but it's not a group I'm that interested in belonging to.

That whole Lee Daniel story with Rufus Hunter was confusing as heck! My sister kept replaying that bit and pausing on the tree links. I'm pretty sure there was no explicit incest. Sounds like he was just "having relations" with a mother and daughter, but neither were related to him. Unless I'm still confused. 🤪

That's what I got too. I had to back up to interpret it, They didn't explain it well.

1 hour ago, 12catcrazy said:

I watched both episodes last night.  I had never heard of Rebecca Hall and didn't realize that she was the director of "Passing".   Now beat me for saying this, but from the photos they showed us, I would've guessed that Rebecca's mother was bi-racial.       Such a weird concept that people had to "hide" their race but when you have insanity such as slavery and things such as the "one drop" law, people will do what they can do to make a better life for themselves. 

Agree.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, tljgator said:

Yep, shapshifter -- they did both the "are you related to anyone else who's been on the show" and they very interesting thing I quite like, where they actually have to use the DNA to find relatives because something is missing for some reason in the paper trail.

Then I’m guessing they didn’t do the DNA for Raul Esparza and David Chang to protect any distant relatives in Cuba or North Korea from perhaps politically or just economically motivated extortion or kidnapping or worse. 😫😨😱☠️ 

Anyway. I’m about to watch the Rebecca Hall and Lee Daniels episode now.

And I watched   
—–what was perhaps the most moving episode of the series. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by shapeshifter

[deirdra]

How many times have we seen someone who is related to Mia Farrow?

[blueray]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Then I’m guessing they didn’t do the DNA for Raul Esparza and David Chang to protect any distant relatives in Cuba or North Korea from perhaps politically or just economically motivated extortion or kidnapping or worse. 😫😨😱☠️ 

 

I didn't even think about that. That make sense, especially in N. Korea. They could though any relatives in prison camps since a family member left.

[Mermaid Under]

Quote

Then I’m guessing they didn’t do the DNA for Raul Esparza and David Chang to protect any distant relatives in Cuba or North Korea

I'm assuming that they didn't do their DNA because it didn't add anything to the story they wanted to tell.   How would identifying their DNA put someone at risk?

 

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, Mermaid Under said:

I'm assuming that they didn't do their DNA because it didn't add anything to the story they wanted to tell.   How would identifying their DNA put someone at risk?

 

Yes, my guess is that they do the DNA testing and, if nothing interesting comes up, it isn't included.  As far as I know, Louise Erdrich from the first season (I think it was just a special then) is the only person who refused the DNA testing.

[carrps]

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

Yes, my guess is that they do the DNA testing and, if nothing interesting comes up, it isn't included.  As far as I know, Louise Erdrich from the first season (I think it was just a special then) is the only person who refused the DNA testing.

Apparently, she had been raised to think she had NA ancestry, and she was very involved with the tribe, and they considered her one of the them, but the DNA showed she had no actual NA ancestry. It's a touchy subject in the native community. As far as I understand it, if the tribe considers you a member, you're a member. And that's completely different from "being on the rolls."

And Chang and Esparza were probably 100% Korean, and 100% European (with an emphasis on Spain) respectively.

 

[Suzn]

12 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

I'm assuming that they didn't do their DNA because it didn't add anything to the story they wanted to tell.   How would identifying their DNA put someone at risk?

 

They did do DNA testing.  The results are shown under the end credits.  Esparza had Spain, Portugal, France and something I don't remember.  Chang's were Korea, Japan and some Korean/Japanese admixture and another thing I don't remember.  I don't think the DNA added anything notable when they had so many stories to tell for each of them.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Suzn

[sempervivum]

Did I miss any exploration of WHY Lee Daniel's grandfather (I think it was) didn't know (?) the info about his father (Lee's great grandfather) who worked for the Treasury Dept., traveled abroad for the government, dealt with ambassadors, etc.? The great grandfather did die young, but you'd still expect his wife to have been proud enough to keep his story alive for his kids!

Never heard of Rebecca Hall, but she was certainly beautiful; she reminded me of a toned-down Angelina Jolie. 

[carrps]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

They did do DNA testing.  The results are shown under the end credits.  Esparza had Spain, Portugal, France and something I don't remember. 

Oh, that's right. Esparza also had Basque ancestry, which is not surprising considering where that town that his family was in for four hundred years.

 

[Suzn]

12 minutes ago, carrps said:

Oh, that's right. Esparza also had Basque ancestry, which is not surprising considering where that town that his family was in for four hundred years.

 

The most interesting one is what I forgot!

[Dehumidifier]

22 hours ago, deirdra said:

How many times have we seen someone who is related to Mia Farrow?

1,000,000.

[buckboard]

The Rebecca Hall and Lee Daniels episodes were fascinating.  The Hall episode was the perfect use of the DNA test.

The show obviously chooses the most interesting excerpts to air, but I wish they would make available more of what they filmed or at least have links to relatives not mentioned on the show.  And I wish they would look into both sides of a family.  With Rebecca Hall, for example, the mystery was on her mother's side, so they didn't even discuss her father's family. 

 There isn't enough time to go into much detail with two or more guests, so why not air only one person per show?  Do they think it would be too boring with only one guest?  "Who Do You Think You Are?" features only one guest  (and even then they kind of cram in the information.)

[deirdra]

I'm thankful they stopped doing 3 in each episode - those were way too brief. 

Rebecca's father is probably descended from one of the usual Brit ancestors - William the Conqueror or Robert the Bruce

[kassygreene]

22 hours ago, deirdra said:

I'm thankful they stopped doing 3 in each episode - those were way too brief. 

Rebecca's father is probably descended from one of the usual Brit ancestors - William the Conqueror or Robert the Bruce

I think the only time they did just one was LL Cool J, and his family story - his father shooting his mother, his mother being adopted, and his mother being a great-niece of the Hall Of Fame boxer John Henry Lewis.

[sempervivum]

Anita Hill and Brittany Packnett Cunningham (? never heard of her): Considering how very few records there are for identifiable Black people pre-Civil War, it's weird that the show keeps finding famous/semi-famous modern day people who have them as ancestors. 

[Mermaid Under]

I can never tell which episodes are going to resonate with me.  The whole process is so repetitive, each episode is boilerplate , and HLG pretty much says and does the same things every time.  So my interest kind of depends on the guests.  Anita Hill was gracious and intelligent and it was interesting to hear her early history,  as well as her perspective of the public history of which we are all aware.   But kind of a blah episode for me.  

[Driad]

Which episodes, or parts of episodes, particularly stick in your memory?

In some episode, the 1870 census listed the guest's formerly enslaved ancestor as an illiterate tenant farmer. But by 1880, he could read and write, and he owned land!  I don't remember who the guest was; maybe this has happened more than once.

Sometimes I have heard of the guests, sometimes I haven't. The discoveries and stories are what interest me.

[Mermaid Under]

Quote

Which episodes, or parts of episodes, particularly stick in your memory?

For me, so far, it has been Andy Samberg and his mother's search for her birth parents.  I had no idea who he was (I stopped watching or paying attention to SNL decades ago) and yet found him and the whole story engaging.

[12catcrazy]

Saw online today that Rebecca Hall's mother, Maria Ewing,  just passed away.  She was only 71.

[Suzn]

3 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

I can never tell which episodes are going to resonate with me.  The whole process is so repetitive, each episode is boilerplate , and HLG pretty much says and does the same things every time.  So my interest kind of depends on the guests.  Anita Hill was gracious and intelligent and it was interesting to hear her early history,  as well as her perspective of the public history of which we are all aware.   But kind of a blah episode for me.  

I so much wish he would try to find a few different things to say.  It becomes tedious with the very same questions every time.  I don't know why, but I found this episode rather uninteresting. Anita Hill is an interesting person, so I don't know why this was so dull.  I've never heard of Brittany Packnett Cunningham - usually that doesn't matter and the history and ancestor stories are interesting anyway - not this one.

[Cherpumple]

This one didn't really grab me either. It was fine, but seemed to cover a lot of the same historical ground we've seen before. I'm glad that Brittany was so thrilled to learn about her paternal line, but the story of her grandparents made me nervous. At best, the relationship was a one night stand or brief affair between a married man and a young woman visiting her brothers. But it could have been a much more sinister encounter. We'll never know. And hearing that he later divorced his wife and was stabbed to death by a girlfriend sounds even more shady. However, I did like the picture of the grandfather with the pipe in his mouth.

[Yeah No]

On 1/6/2022 at 12:30 PM, Suzn said:

They did do DNA testing.  The results are shown under the end credits.  Esparza had Spain, Portugal, France and something I don't remember.  Chang's were Korea, Japan and some Korean/Japanese admixture and another thing I don't remember.  I don't think the DNA added anything notable when they had so many stories to tell for each of them.

I saw that.  I'm just glad they're finally show the results at the end of the episode now even if they don't talk about them.  I'm sure Gates must have responded to viewer requests to include that.  They didn't match them to anyone that's been on the show, probably because neither of them is related to Kevin Bacon or Mia Farrow, LOL.

[HelenBaby]

I didn’t find the Anita Hill/Britney Packnett Cunningham episode very compelling however both Cunningham & Rebecca Hall from the previous week both had ancestors from my neck of the woods (North Alabama & South Central Tennessee.) When they said who Hall’s parents were, I knew I’d heard of her father before. Turns out her mother was Peter Hall’s second of four wives, the first being Leslie Caron.