Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[wonderwall]

What about Amber Heard? I haven't seen anything she's been in but she has a soft face that can pull of vulnerability, and she has the ability to look badass. IDK :p 

 

Other than that, all i can think of is Cassidy Freeman, I just love her. 

[ban1o]

I had no idea who Black Canary was before I saw the show but after watching the very first episode, I did wonder if the show would've been better if they had cast Eliza Dushku as Laurel Lance. She is older than Cassidy but she is the same age as Stephen Amell and would've totally sold a tough as nails lawyer with little patience for non sense. Her voice has the gravitas for her to be a strong empowered female. KC comes as whiney when she tries to portray strong woman. Eliza Dushku is also capable enough to bring some nuance to her character. Now that I think about it, she would have looked great with Colin Donnel who played Tommy.

Ah the missed opportunities.

AS a huge BTVS fan I approve lol. But yeah I think she would have been good in the role. I also think the Cassidy Freeman would have been good too but I don't think they would have considered casting someone who was a major character in Smallville. 

Edited September 29, 2014 by ban1o

[wonderwall]

I'm curious... How will you all approach Laurel this season? 

• With an open mind, meaning you're open to changing your mind about her
• You'll fast forward her scenes
• Laurel is forever ruined and you won't change your mind about her
• You're giving Laurel a clean slate
• You've always liked Laurel and hope she continues on her path

Or something else? :)

[NumberCruncher]

Open mind.  I've never hated her, just mostly been indifferent to the character.  I'm hoping her scenes this season will make me like her better since enjoying all of the show is better than just certain aspects of it.

[TanyaKay]

I will watch the season premier live so chance of Fast forwarding that but if I do catch later episodes on DVR, chances are that I will either fast forward her scenes of go get a glass of wine when she is on.

[ban1o]

Going in with an open mind in concerns to Laurel. I thought she got a lot better towards the end of the 2nd season so I'm interested in where she goes this season. :) 

 

LOL no matter how much I hate a character I don`t fast forward through their scenes. I`m the type of person who has to catch every single second in tv shows or movies because I`m paranoid I`ll miss something important. I even have to make sure everybody watching with me  catches ever single second too. Like if someone talks during a scene I`ll tell them to shut up and rewind it lol. 

Edited September 29, 2014 by ban1o

[Angel12d]

I'm curious... How will you all approach Laurel this season? 

• With an open mind, meaning you're open to changing your mind about her
• You'll fast forward her scenes
• Laurel is forever ruined and you won't change your mind about her
• You're giving Laurel a clean slate
• You've always liked Laurel and hope she continues on her path

Or something else? :)

 

I have a lot of reservations about how they'll handle her character but I'm definitely open to changing my mind. I don't hate her but I hate the way she's been written and I don't agree with some of KC's acting choices so all that combined has made me more frustrated/annoyed by her character than anything.

 

I'd never fast forward scenes either. Sometimes my brain switches off for me though, particularly if I'm bored and that has happened with Laurel. I just want them to write her better. Give her a purpose but don't shoe-horn her into scenes just for the sake of it. Make me want to root for her.

 

I do think this is a make or break season for her though. If they can't fix her by the end of s3 then I think she's a bit of a lost cause.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Angel12d

[JJ928]

If they can make me care about her, then I'll be open-minded about her storyline. So far, they've failed to do this even though she's a character I know I should care about. Here's to hoping they can do something decent with her, without sacrificing Sara.

[catrox14]

I'm over Laurel. Time for her to move on.

[wonderwall]

Is it bad that I'm hoping Laurel will fail to impress in season 3? I just want to be done with her and move on because I don't want to waste anymore precious screentime and energy on her :/ I'd much rather them focus on something that's a lot more interesting like Digg, Quentin, Nysara in LoA, Felicity, Lyla, etc. 

 

IDK. I'm going to try to keep an open mind about her but I also want her to just go away. I have very conflicting emotions for Laurel, neither of them are particularly good. 

[Angel12d]

Even if she does fail to impress in s3, she'll still be there because her name is Dinah Laurel Lance. It's sad that the only worth she has to the story is the relevance of her name but that's just the way it is. So I do hope she improves because I know she's not going anywhere and I actually want to enjoy all parts of the show.

 

That said, if they don't redeem her character I really don't know what they're going to do. She's polarizing enough as it is. They've already had two seasons and plenty of chances to bring her back and they've failed so I don't really have much faith right now. 

[wonderwall]

I don't know. I think that if she fails to impress, I think the EPs will go a different route with Laurel. 

[catrox14]

I don't know. I think that if she fails to impress, I think the EPs will go a different route with Laurel. 

I think they'll just start killing off characters to keep her around.

[ban1o]

I'e never really hated Laurel and sometimes don't get the passionate hate against her lol. I've just been indifferent to her character, think she ha s poor characterization and don't think the writers really know what they are doing sometimes with her character lol. Like TOmmy dying could have been the motivation she needed to start her journey to Black Canary but they did nothing with that. 

Edited September 30, 2014 by ban1o

[Angel12d]

I'e never really hated Laurel and sometimes don't get the passionate hate against her lol. I've just been indifferent to her character, think she ha s poor characterization and don't think the writers really know what they are doing sometimes with her character lol. Like TOmmy dying could have been the motivation she needed to start her journey to Black Canary but they did nothing with that. 

 

It's true I've seen a lot of passionate hate but I've actually seen more frustration than anything because people want her to be better. A lot of what I've seen is people wanting to like Laurel, wanting to root for her but not being able to because she's just badly written. That's most of my problem with Laurel. When I put aside the O/L relationship which I HATE with a passion, I don't hate Laurel at all but I don't understand her choices and the way they've written her angers me. It's like they purposefully write their female lead badly sometimes and I just don't get it! Then they force her into storylines just so she has some purpose and that angers me more. So I agree. I really don't think the writers know what they're doing. 

Edited September 30, 2014 by Angel12d

[ban1o]

It's true I've seen a lot of passionate hate but I've actually seen more frustration than anything because people want her to be better. A lot of what I've seen is people wanting to like Laurel, wanting to root for her but not being able to because she's just badly written. That's most of my problem with Laurel. When I put aside the O/L relationship which I HATE with a passion, I don't hate Laurel at all but I don't understand her choices and the way they've written her angers me. It's like they purposefully write their female lead badly sometimes and I just don't get it! Then they force her into storylines just so she has some purpose and that angers me more. So I agree. I really don't think the writers know what they're doing. 

 I'm a pretty chill person the only tv character that I've really hated like A LOT is Joffrey from Game of Thrones (and I think we're supposed to hate him?), and I don't think Laurel is anywhere that bad lol. I didn't even hate Lori from TWD as much as most people did. 

 

I do think she's badly written and it's weird cause it's not just the writers not knowing how to write female characters. I think Felicity, Sara, Moira, and even Thea are better written then she is so I don`t really know how they messed up with her. I don`t want to dislike her though since she is a main character so I`m all up for her to get a good storyline and for her character to improve in season 3! 

 

I definitely agree about  the O/L romance though. The way they've written that relationship is ridiculous. These writers seem capable so I don't know how they went so wrong there. It's not just the chemistry between SA and KC but everything about that is just so wrong. ALthough I'm not reaaly a  O/F shipper if the alternative is O/L then I would much rather want O/F

Edited September 30, 2014 by ban1o

[calliope1975]

I'm done with the character so I guess that means my mind is pretty closed. I was mostly indifferent in S1 and that turned to dislike by the end of S2. The writers had their chance to make me care about Laurel and failed miserably. Anything's possible, I suppose, and I have changed my mind about characters I wasn't fond of at first. But it would take a lot of skill from both the writers and the actor, and I don't know if I believe either are capable of such. 

[Sakura12]

I'm pretty much done with Laurel, if the actress or the writers can't make me care about the character after 40+ episodes then it's a lost cause. I'll have no problem fast forwarding her scenes when she's not with any of the main characters. I did that with Lana on Smallville and the show was much better.

 

Also if any other characters die just so Laurel can have a purpose on this show, I'll definitely be done with her. 

Edited September 30, 2014 by Sakura12

[Chaser]

I feel like Laurel is one of those characters I could only like in hindsight. I'm too concerned about the losing the things I enjoy on the show (Team Arrow, Oliver, Felicity, Sara, Olicity) to Laurel. I tend to watch Laurel scenes with too much apprehension because of that concern. it's like I need a guarantee from the writers this won't happen.

 

I hope they find a way to make Laurel relevant and constant this season. And that I will be open minded enough to accept this new Laurel. I don't think I'm ever going to like Laurel, but I want to get to the point where I don't dread her. 

 

Killing other characters to make her relevant though is a deal breaker.

Edited September 30, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[KenyaJ]

I hope they find a way to make Laurel relevant and constant this season. And that I will be open minded enough to accept this new Laurel. I don't think I'm ever going to like Laurel, but I want to get to the point where I don't dread her.

 

This. I'm not sure I'm capable of liking her at this point, but I would settle for her being interesting and actually having a point, so her scenes don't feel like filler. So many of her scenes last season felt like they existed for little reason other that giving KC something to do to justify her salary. As long as her scenes are relevant to the narrative this season, I won't mind. But I'll state up front that I don't consider her wanting or training to become BC relevant to Oliver's story. So if that's her primary story this season, I will be fast forwarding.

[Chaser]

@KenyaJ - I think you touched on one of the main problems with Laurel as Black Canary. Black Canary's origins shouldn't be influenced by Oliver's. They should be two independent story lines. The problem though is that Arrow is Oliver's story, not Laurel's. How do you make Laurel's story relevant to Oliver's without demeaning Black Canary's? I'm not sure you can. 

Edited September 30, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[Sakura12]

That's why Sara being League of Assassin trained, left and decided to save women from being taken of advantage of by men was perfect. Her training and her deciding to be a crime fighter had nothing to do with Oliver. She had her own mission and could easily pop up now and again to help Team Arrow without taking away from Oliver's story. Just like the Black Canary from the comics and they even gave them the getting back together a couple of times and finally deciding to end it storyline. 

 

Laurel as the BC will have none of that, her story will be strictly tied to Oliver, her wanting to help people will be because of Oliver, her deciding she needs to train will be because of Oliver and she'll only get the title because Sara a much better BC will be killed or something. Then we also have the BC years behind in training to Oliver.  

 

With everyone screaming Laurel's BC because of comics none of that is anything like the comics. That makes the BC a hero because she wanted to be like her sister and her ex boyfriend which diminishes the legacy of the character.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Sakura12

[KirkB]

I'll be watching her out of the corner of my eye (while focusing on the more important and interesting characters around her) on the off chance she does something I might want to pay attention to.

[wonderwall]

I'd sort of be pissed if they dumb everyone else down in order to make Laurel look smart. I really really hope they don't do this! Alas I don't trust the writers at all. Basically there are so many things that can go wrong with regards to Laurel that the writers have already set her up to fail. 

 

But dammit I will try really hard to keep an open mind!

[ban1o]

Haha maybe I'm just really anal or have some sort of problem. I am the type of person who even if I've already watched an episode of a tv show or a movie and someone talks really loudly through a scene I'll rewind it. Can't imaging partially ignoring or skipping over scenes with certain characters. 

Edited September 30, 2014 by ban1o

[wonderwall]

Haha maybe I'm just really anal or have some sort of problem. I am the type of person who even if I've already watched an episode of a tv show or a movie and someone talks really loudly through a scene I'll rewind it. Can't imaging partially ignoring or skipping over scenes with certain characters. 

Lmao I'm more of the type who groans when some non-entity is on my screen or when the plot isn't moving fast enough. This is why I sooo hate bottle episodes, why I skipped half of smallville... I'm a terrible tv watcher. Even when Laurel comes on screen, I sometimes use that time to go get a snack. :p

[scarynikki12]

As long as Laurel is under contract I'll be watching with an open mind.  I want her to be relevant to the show and I want to like her since I've liked Cassidy in everything else.  If the producers can pull that off there won't be any upset from my side, though pulling this off does not include throwing away other characters to give her this relevancy. 

[statsgirl]

I was talking to someone about the scene in s1 where Laurel and Felicity first meet, and the other person talked about Laurel's "Caroline Bingley smile", and I thought, that's it.  She's the person who takes prior claim to Oliver/Mr. Darcy, doesn't think anyone else is as good as she is, and treats Felicity like a servant.

 

I didn't come to the show from the section of the comics that had GA/BC married to each other (I had read earlier comics though) so I have no investment in either Laurel being with Oliver or in being BC.  And I would gladly have sacrificed her for Oliver's growth than Tommy or Moira.

 

I have two main problems with Laurel:  how KC plays her; and how the writers push her into the show when she doesn't need to be there and takes time away from characters I do like.  I don't think anything can make KC's acting in line with Laurel Lance unless the producers finally let her become  less-than-perfect and acknowledge that she acts entitled, and become Blackmail Canary.

 

I almost stopped watching last season because Felicity and Diggle got lost and I was prepared to give up on the show altogether this season but they pulled it together in the last bunch of episodes. Thinking back, if only they had dropped the Laurel storylines except for finding out about Blood and taking it to Oliver, without the "I know you like I know my morning cereal" stuff, then I would have liked s2b much more.

 

So really, what it's going to take to get me to accept Laurel is writing more in line with KC's abilities, and keeping her role small, like helping out occasionally but not being a full fledged member of Team Arrow.  I have much more interest in Thea/Merlyn, or Diggle's family, or Sara and Nyssa, or Roy's growth or even Quentin dealing with a desk job than I have in seeing Laurel fighting with the Team.  

[pootlus]

I don't really have any fantasy casting ideas re: Laurel, although statsgirl's post now has me wishing for Anna Chancellor to appear on the show in some shape or form (Quentin's mysterious new girlfriend?).

 

I don't fast-forward shows (I did that with the very first episode of The Vampire Diaries which is why I only ever watched - well, saw bits of - the first episode) but in Laurel's bits I do find myself tuning out and checking Twitter or this forum, for instance.

 

I think if she's to become acceptable they need to reboot the character - as statsgirl also said, more in line with KC's abilities.  Stop trying to push her as this amazing 'good-doer' when that's not how she comes across.  Get the writing consistent for the character, and bring it more into line with the sort of thing the actress portraying her seems to be able to play.

[bethy]

I'm going to try to keep an open mind about her. I guess my main fear is that the Team Arrow dynamic will be lessened by her presence - whether due to how she interacts with each person on the team or the time spent on her to the detriment of other people on the team.  I don't hate Laurel, but she bugs me.  And I do tend to fast-forward over her scenes.  I'm going to try not to for the first few episodes and see how it goes.

[BkWurm1]

LOL no matter how much I hate a character I don`t fast forward through their scenes. I`m the type of person who has to catch every single second in tv shows or movies because I`m paranoid I`ll miss something important

 

.

Yeah, that's me too.  There is no chance I'll ever fast forward her scenes which opens up a lot of frustration risk

I even have to make sure everybody watching with me  catches ever single second too. Like if someone talks during a scene I`ll tell them to shut up and rewind it lol.

 

I've gone extreme in an opposite way.  I just dumped the other viewers and watch my top tier shows alone, lol. 

I want to say that I'm going into season 3 with an open mind but of course a completely open mind is impossible after two years of ...lets call it mischaracterization.  I cant forget the past nor do I want to - but Laurel hasn't done anything completely unforgivable yet, just deeply annoying and troubling and yes, I am constantly waiting for Laurel's existence to cause a shoe to squash Sara or some other character that might be getting in her way, so that certainly adds a strain. 

I honestly think there is a way to write Laurel in season three that would allow me to connect and empathize with Laurel so by that standard, I'm going into season three with an open mind, but I don't know how much slack I am willing or able to cut the show in their latest attempt to reboot Laurel.

Honestly, I think the show runners best bet would be to stick Laurel safely in the background long enough that she can't do anything to irritate viewers.  Let me become indifferent to her first before you attempt to make me like her.

[Sakura12]

The reason I can FF the Laurel only or Laurel/unimportant character scenes is because ignoring them doesn't take anything away from the narrative because they were useless most of the time. You could erase most of Laurel's scenes last season and the show would not have missed a beat and may have actually been more enjoyable. If I did miss something most likely it will be repeated by them or another character later on and I can figure out the rest. 

 

Just think about it, if Laurel didn't exist, we would've had a nice happy family reunion with Sara, Quentin and Dinah. So she would not have gone to the Arrow lair to hook up with Oliver and there would've been no dinner from hell because Sara would've already been spending time with her family. I still stand behind the fact that I would've rather seen Teen Arrow investigate Brother Blood since it was their case in the first place. 

Edited October 1, 2014 by Sakura12

[wingster55]

How I'll take Laurel? Open mind, and not immediately dismissing her scenes as boring or irrelevant.

...

[ban1o]

I still stand behind the fact that I would've rather seen Teen Arrow investigate Brother Blood since it was their case in the first place. 

LOL me too! I actually liked Thea+Sn+Roy investigating. But I guess can kinda understand why they gave the story-line to Laurel. BTW I remember seeing a review that referred to them as "Team Speedy,"  as opposed to Oliver's "Team Arrow" which I thought was good name lol. 

 

 

How I'll take Laurel? Open mind, and not immediately dismissing her scenes as boring or irrelevant.

...

Yeah in general I agree with this. :) 

[tv echo]

Ditto to what statsgirl said above.

[Sakura12]

Laurel's scenes have been boring and irrelevant for 2 seasons now, it hard to see them as anything else. After that long of a time I can't see that changing.

The only way I'd be able to have an open mind on the Laurel character would be if they recast the role.

[dtissagirl]

I'm not gonna be watching live JUST SO I have the means of fast-forwarding Laurel if the writing/acting gives me reason. I guess that's a half-open mind?

[SonofaBiscuit]

If my main issue with Laurel was a fixable one, such as writing, I would be more open-minded about possibly tolerating or liking her at some point in the future.  I won't be fast-forwarding her scenes, but if Laurel becomes as unbearable to me as she was in the second half of season two, I will do what I did last season.  I went from watching live to reading episode comments before bothering to watch the episode.  If the episode sounded kind of meh, I would wait several days to go back and catch the missed episode.

[ostentatious]

I was talking to someone about the scene in s1 where Laurel and Felicity first meet, and the other person talked about Laurel's "Caroline Bingley smile", and I thought, that's it.  She's the person who takes prior claim to Oliver/Mr. Darcy, doesn't think anyone else is as good as she is, and treats Felicity like a servant.

 

The comparison between Laurel and Miss Bingley is GOLD.

Edited October 1, 2014 by thecatbastet

[Sakura12]

If they are going to go with Laurel putting "Black" in front of Sara's name, why on earth would she do that? Black is associated with darkness. Laurel's supposed "darkness" is not any different than most people. She's not the only one in the world to lose someone, she's not the only one to turn to alcohol instead of dealing with her issues. She doesn't have any real darkness in her. While Sara is a really dark character that's been through unimaginable traumas and didn't turn to drugs or alcohol, she faced her issues head on and is still fighting for them. So it would make a ton more sense for Sara to be called Black Canary over Laurel. 

[Chaser]

It makes sense that Laurel still views herself as still having a claim on Oliver. She still see him as 'Ollie'. She will not admit he has changed. She still believes she knows him better than anyone - even when there is strong evidence against.

 

Emotionally, Laurel never moved on.

[Password]

One of the best things Laurel could do in her relations to Oliver is come to the realisation that she doesn't know him now, and never really understood him 7 years ago. I would applaud the writers for finally acknowledging what is universally known.

[wingster55]

Laurel's scenes have been boring and irrelevant for 2 seasons now, it hard to see them as anything else. After that long of a time I can't see that changing.

 

Right. Like Thea's...wait...

[Sakura12]

Thea barely had much screentime. Laurel has too much and adds nothing to them.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Sakura12

[statsgirl]

It makes sense that Laurel still views herself as still having a claim on Oliver. She still see him as 'Ollie'. She will not admit he has changed. She still believes she knows him better than anyone - even when there is strong evidence against.

 

Emotionally, Laurel never moved on.

Didn't she at some point tell Sara that her life stopped when the boat went down?    (She forgot about law school and CNRI and her relationship with Tommy, I guess.)

 

I agree that emotionally Laurel never seemed to move on. As soon as Oliver returned to Starling City, Laurel was right back in the midst of the hurt and anger issues, and she never really let go of them until late in the season.  She always seemed to be Ollie's first and Tommy's second, after crying all night and then determining she was going to fight for Tommy, she was sleeping with Oliver in the next episode.  (It makes me wonder if the crying was about being dumped rather than about Tommy himself.)  Then she says that she and Oliver are over forever as a relationship, and four episodes later she's expecting Oliver to sleep with her when he walks her to her door.  Fourteen episodes after that, she's telling Oliver that no one knows him like she does, even though she barely knows him since his return from the island, and several times she's told him he's worthless or she hates him.

 

It's interesting that in an early episode Thea told Oliver that people have moved on with their lives while he's been away, but it seems that Laurel never did emotionally.

[scarynikki12]

emotionally Laurel never seemed to move on

 

This should have been the jumping off point for her character when the series began.  Whatever else we think should have been done with her in relation to Oliver and becoming Black Canary, this would have driven home just how fractured Laurel herself was when the ship went down even though she was on the other side of the world and physically ok.  I think they realized this mistake (Laurel was so well adjusted that her anger with Oliver didn't last very long even though his betrayal is the kind of thing that permanently severs relationships in real life) and are trying to retcon it, but it doesn't work now like it would have then.

[Angel12d]

One of the best things Laurel could do in her relations to Oliver is come to the realisation that she doesn't know him now, and never really understood him 7 years ago. I would applaud the writers for finally acknowledging what is universally known.

 

THIS. I would love that. It would help her character a lot.

 

I just want her to kind of come to her senses about Oliver tbh. I also want her to acknowledge that she was holding onto the past and that wasn't healthy, especially after everything he did to her with the lying and the cheating and the sleeping with her sister. One of my main problems with Laurel is that she loses all self-respect when she goes back to Oliver (Sara does too tbh) and I want her to realize and acknowledge that that is not ok and that she, as a woman, deserves better. They sort of attempted that in the beginning of s2 with their whole "We can't go back" discussion (not really but it was a start) but then she tried to kiss him four episodes later. It's just infuriating. 

Edited October 1, 2014 by Angel12d

[tessaray]

 

I'm not gonna be watching live JUST SO I have the means of fast-forwarding Laurel if the writing/acting gives me reason. I guess that's a half-open mind?

 

I'm still on the fence about watching S3 at all because of Laurel. 

 

I might give the character a chance if they make it clear she won't be a vigilante. Because no matter what her name is, there is absolutely nothing in what we've seen on the show that would make me believe Laurel would be out there fighting crime on a physical level.  This is the woman who pouted in front of the television more than a few times in S2. 

[olicityfan25]

Don't care for her. I generally tune out when she's on screen. I only pay attention when there's characters around her that I like. She is completely useless. 

[writersblock51]

I've been FFing most Laurel scenes since S2 E1 ended. I don't like how the character has been written (the inconsistency takes me out of every story she's in), I don't think the actress has been a good fit (even with Quentin/Paul Blackthorne... though I liked her well enough with Tommy through much of Season 1), and I have no faith that either of those will be different this season.

 

The character and actress and writing staff have had 2 seasons to put something together that would compell me to watch her - and it hasn't worked.  If my family watches live, anytime she's on screen, that's my twitter/bathroom/snack break.  And I haven't missed much - certainly nothing that hasn't been quickly explained on Twitter or here.

 

For me, it all comes down to an inexpicable love of her name - and if Sara's middle name turns out to be "Dinah" then Laurel will have absolutely nothing left to add to this show or Oliver's journey.

 

The show wanted a Black Canary - they put together a pretty good one. I'd even say a great one in that her journey was HERS with only some connection to Oliver's - the whole construction means that whatever Laurel may try to have will be paltry in comparison.  I came into the show in 2012 with the full expectation that I'd love the character and that she'd be the Black Canary.  I've posted here, at length, about how both of those expectations have fallen short.

Edited October 2, 2014 by writersblock51