Endeavour - General Discussion

[sempervivum]

SunnyBeBe- I guess you really have to have seen not only the previous Endeavour seasons, but also the original Morse. This is a verrrry slowly unfolding character study, except in reverse; I'm sure there are other examples, but I would point to Better Call Saul as a similar format.

I was expecting there to be some kind of connection between Ann's love of horse stories and the 'slaughterer'-like, she got off the bus and somehow tried to free the grey horse, with the owner killing her for some reason.

I absolutely LOVED the way the story went from 'serial murderer on the loose' to 2 entirely different (sad) stories involving a car accident and a mild mannered pervert. Wish Morse and Friday Thursday had been able to make more of a public 'thing' of Stanley actually being completely innocent.

Edited June 17, 2019 by sempervivum
corrected name

[freddi]

44 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

. Wish Morse and Friday had been able to make more of a public 'thing' of Stanley actually being completely innocent.

So, Stanley died as the result of bad heroin?  Just a sad end to a terribly sad life.  You’d think his aunt and uncle could have told him more about his mother— the questions to Thursday sounded like Stanley had little information about her.

And, the photographer/kidnapper just told a girl her parents were dead, then kept her in a house nearby?  And he planned to keep the original girl as well as Rosie?  

And he called the police into his home for missing snuff boxes?!  

[tljgator]

Did I have to go track down Bright's traffic video (with an actual pelican!)? Yes, yes, I did.

Vaguely depressing start for the group -- watching Morse & Thursday defer to the men that they would normally disparage (and had, in prior seasons) was a sad turn.  *sigh*

[Brattinella]

For those who haven't seen the prior seasons, please at least try to see the most recent before this.  EVERYTHING was different, Morse was brilliant, Bright was a good boss, very down to earth, Fred and Morse had a GREAT relationship, and those two new ones (Box is loathsome!) were not there at all.

Hoping that the two newbies are hauled away due to ongoing crimes!  Box should NOT BE boss!

[tootsie]

So happy to have this show back and feeling quite protective of the regulars. Wanted to smack those two patronizing, bullying, rather stupid new detectives silly on several occasions. Loved having Max there early on and Strange, too, who seems to be the most committed to justice for Fancy. Great that Frazill had a scene of her own, as well. Bright is a true favorite. In my mind's eye, I handled his demeaning tv scene with the pelican by replacing the creature with a tiger. (still one of my all time favorite episodes despite its stretch to my imagination) Agree that the scene of Morse walking through the field toward the horse was splendid, in color and composition. In anticipation, too...Morse didn't know what was waiting for him but the audience certainly did.

From the lines of his face to the tone of his voice, this young Endeavour is slowly fading into the Morse we know (and love - at least, I do) from the earlier series. The older Morse always walked a narrow line that pushed right up against an immature and annoying self-pity. Great, great acting and writing to see hints of this happening before my eyes in the younger Morse.

I think if you lived through the very late 60's into the 70's - as I did -  this is the Masterpiece Mystery for you. Everything is so spot on in the production. On a shallow note, that young Morse looked very good in uniform. Very good.

[freddi]

1 hour ago, tljgator said:

Did I have to go track down Bright's traffic video (with an actual pelican!)? Yes, yes, I did.

Vaguely depressing start for the group -- watching Morse & Thursday defer to the men that they would normally disparage (and had, in prior seasons) was a sad turn.  *sigh*

Oh, thank you!  What were the editors thinking?!!!  The pelican makes no sense unless we have seen the full PSA!  

Not vaguely depressing at all -- it was full-out humiliating!  Were these the same thug cops who threatened Trewlove last season?  The fact that they have no redeeming qualities is reassuring -- they have no place to go but out!  

Edited June 17, 2019 by freddi

[freddi]

Another cut scene:  Apparently there was a scene where Endeavour goes to the home of Max (medical examiner) and they sit in a pretty backyard on wrought-iron lawn furniture and eat seedcake and drink.  I stepped away for 60 seconds (and missed Win), but don't think I could have missed this.   

[Desperado]

More and more I have a love-hate relationship with this series. The acting is always superb, the stories are good but the characters and their relationship to each other are fantastic.

The pain comes from the sad events that continually happen to the characters I love, Thursday and Morse, and in knowing that things will never get better for Morse. 

And Box is so damn disgusting. That comment to Joan at the station 🤮🤮🤮. Kudos to Simon Harrison on being such a believable douche.

Yet, I cannot avoid watching. Damn you Good British TV.

[2727]

Was I supposed to feel sympathy for the  wife who drove a mortally injured child to her house and put a cold compress on her forehead instead of getting her actual medical help? Her abetting husband was a selfish ass as well.

PBS cut the scene at Max's house? I suppose it didn't really further the plot but it was a lovely small interaction. Here it is:

Morse knocks on the door of a sweet brick cottage set amidst flowers and ivy. Max comes to the door holding a cake knife.

Max, glancing at the knife: "Oh, it's nothing sinister. I was just getting a seed cake out of the oven. Come in."

Out in the garden.

Max: "Well this is a first. A splash more? [Pours iced tea.] How'd you know where I live, by the way?"

Morse: "You're in the book. [Looks around.]' Nice."

Max: "I'm fighting a war of attrition with the green flies over the tea roses. Not very successfully it must be said, but yes. As a spot, I'm rather fond. Well. Something has to be lovely, doesn't it?"

Max looks at Morse while saying the last line, in acknowledgment of the horror and filth they deal with at work, and trying to reclaim some beauty.

[Pyralis]

It's the third part of the scene where Max tells Morse about the child's injuries - where Morse starts to put together the actual events- and it end with the HEAVY FORESHADOWING of futureMorse

Morse   And what do you think happened to her.

Max  I think if I spent my days in contemplation of such questions, I would drink rather more than I do.

edit - no the three part scene was completely cut.  I hate that PBS does that as it makes understanding certain events more difficult.  If they had left those cut scenes in - including the Strange ones - certain actions by the characters are more comprehensible. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Pyralis
responding to freddi's post.

[freddi]

2 hours ago, Pyralis said:

It's the third part of the scene where Max tells Morse about the child's injuries - where Morse starts to put together the actual events- and it end with the HEAVY FORESHADOWING of futureMorse

Oh, you mean the whole outdoor, with seedcake and drinks, was in the PBS airing?  I don't know how I missed that!  

ETA: Thanks for the clarification above, that this scene indeed was cut by PBS.  

Edited June 17, 2019 by freddi

[SusanSunflower]

I trust the writers to go further than bad cops (corrupt vs. careerist/amoral) 2.0., but yes I had a moment of dismay, not really wanting to spend time with people morally corrupted like Box, (placing his success ahead of "justice" or "pursuit of truth),  generally I prefer even mafia type Kray brothers bad guys.

I did wonder about the little girl's injuries being hit slow-speed by a car, rather than being incapacitated by a blow to the head and some other injuury. Again -- pause -- but consistent with the being led by presumptions.  Delighted no parents were darkly suspected.

Morse and Thursday are in a difficult position, not least for being known "prigs" but also easy to assume ambition to return from lowly newbies to former status and so much of discovery being a matter of "trusted" he says-v.-he says.  Glad Joan has a purpose, hope she doesn't fall for oh-so-macho, oh so handsome Box (please god)... until next week. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by SusanSunflower

[humbleopinion]

Waited for the theme song as the episode ended....(crickets)... harrumph....

Morse's Theme by Barrington Pheloung.

The beeps you can hear, notably at the start, actually spell out the word MORSE in morse code

-credit info to A. Kewley

Edited June 17, 2019 by humbleopinion

[Tardislass]

Glad the series is back but miss the old police station and a clean shaven Morse. The pornstache needs to die!

One thing the writers need to end is the now quite boring Morse/Joan dance. I thought we were past it until that kid had to bring up the mommy/daddy business so we can see them uncomfortable. I used to want them together but now just end it as no one cares. Reminds me of Laura/ Lewis where by the time they got together, I didn’t care. 

[humbleopinion]

I am a sap....

I stubbornly hope that Morse and Joan will have a predictable day of the week sandwiches future together...

[Tardislass]

22 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

I am a sap....

I stubbornly hope that Morse and Joan will have a predictable day of the week sandwiches future together...

I like Shaun Evans idea. A night of passion , then realizing they’re not right for each other. Then both can move on a Morse can pine again for that girl he meet in college to continue canon. 

[sugarbaker design]

6 hours ago, jrlr said:

I must be one of the few who think that Joan is a pain in the ass

Trust me, you are not alone.  I still haven't forgiven the little bitch for putting her parents through hell.  Her highness suddenly moved out and refused to contact her parents.  She's awful.  I'm still hoping for a 'Who killed Joan' episode.

[Tardislass]

38 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Trust me, you are not alone.  I still haven't forgiven the little bitch for putting her parents through hell.  Her highness suddenly moved out and refused to contact her parents.  She's awful.  I'm still hoping for a 'Who killed Joan' episode.

Joan is slowly getting on my nerves. Leave poor Morse alone! That is why I wish they'd get it on-then realize they would never work and she could leave town for London or some other groovy place. But I'm afraid Russell loves the will they/won't they cliche.

I do wish they could do a one-off movie of Lewis. I liked that show the best and always wondered what happened to Hathaway and how he was as a boss-did Robbie rub off on him. Mainly I just miss Rebecca Front and the gang. Sigh. 

Finally, I feel old as I remember playing with my parents 8 track tape player. Helen Reddy, Dionne Warwick, etc. Plus you really had to shove those tapes in the player to make it work. 

[magdalene]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Thanks for your response.  I'm not sure I'm up for that kind of interdepartmental discord, when they are investigating a murder and expertise from all should be welcomed.    I may give it one more shot. 

This show has always been as much a character study as a murder case of the week.  You are missing a lot of subtext and character development by not having watched the earlier seasons.  Morse is a brilliant detective and when the Pelican man Bright was in charge and Thursday was Morse's partner his brilliance was valued and appreciated. 

I am hoping that Morse and company will defeat the corrupt elements in the police force because it is so frustrating having to watch decent men being forced to work for scum.

[Dessert]

I’ve lost sympathy with Joan and I think the writing for her interactions with Morse is confusing. In the brief flashback, when she rejects his invitation for “coffee”, she acts as though she has been waiting forever for him to make up his mind, when the opposite is true. In the past two seasons, she turned him down once and then rubbed his nose in it by setting him up with another woman. If she doesn’t want a romantic relationship with him, that’s fine, but she always flirts with him. He was there for her in her darkest hour, when she had no one to turn to. He’s never asked anything of her. She owes him respect and consideration, or at least an honest discussion of their feelings for each other. 

[humbleopinion]

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a27573211/endeavour-season-7/

Happy dance.....

[Desperado]

37 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a27573211/endeavour-season-7/

Happy dance.....

Oh yes @Tardislass - I forgot to mention the 70s porn mustache in my post. Yuck.

The article above wonders if we’ll see it again in Season 7 which means, I assume, we’re stuck with it for the whole of S06. 🤭

[SusanSunflower]

I've been trying to find (via PBS online (the garden scene with the pathologist) -- no such luck anyone remember when in the show it occurred.  I thought after the revelation about her being hit by the car because she died slowly (although how long they "expected her to come around" wasn't mentioned) still it sounded relatively slow without any "massive" or bloody head wound.  That would have raised a little question to go with the flowers in her hair -- someone cared for her before and after she was found in the field.  

My patience is exhausted for today.... but I rewatched the second half  and ,much of the first ... no pathologist after the scene with the pylon.

Edited June 17, 2019 by SusanSunflower

[gaucho91]

8 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wasn't familiar with this series, so, I was thrilled to see it coming on last night.  I hadn't read anything bout it here either.  It looked so intriguing and such a great premise.  However, my enthusiasm quickly dimmed when I saw how they have this police officer, who seems pretty astute, quick with details and interest, shot down by the detectives.....so, why do I feel like I've seen this done a million times in tv, movies, etc?  It's just so cliche.  Those upper investigations are insecure and agitated with a lower officer who is trying to help......reminds me of Dirty Harry theme.  I didn't finish the entire episode.  I came here to see how others are responding.  

Can someone tell me if that type of thing leaves after the first episode? ( You can put in spoiler tags.  Not sure if that's necessary, since this has already aired elsewhere.)  I'd like to see the murder mystery through, but, not if it's going to be the struggle of the lowly uniform officer fighting to solve a murder, and those in charge are too threatened to allow it.  I would think the writers could get more imaginative than that. 

Amazon Prime has all the previous seasons.

[Tardislass]

7 minutes ago, Desperado said:

Oh yes @Tardislass - I forgot to mention the 70s porn mustache in my post. Yuck.

The article above wonders if we’ll see it again in Season 7 which means, I assume, we’re stuck with it for the whole of S06. 🤭

Unfortunately 1970 was a big year for pornstaches- both my uncles had them. So yeah, unless Morse’s latest lady tells him to shave in a scene PBS will delete. Would it kill them to leave the Max/Morse scenes in otherwise we never see him with other friends. 

[sugarbaker design]

I totally forgot to look for the red letter message in the closing credits.  Did anyone happen to catch it?

[freddi]

2 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

I totally forgot to look for the red letter message in the closing credits.  Did anyone happen to catch it?

Yes, see back on page one of this thread.  

PBS went through the final credits at double speed -- not fair to red-letter readers! 

[SusanSunflower]

I just realizes what was conspicuously missing from this episode  -- Oxford!! 

I remain bothered by the mother/driver's story and assumption she would be punished (to her husband and daughter's detriment.  It was an accident.  Withholding medical care, failure to report are criminal.  Many accidents (like this one) are ruled regrettable, but unavoidable accidents....with no particular negligence evident.  The stuff of other revenge/wrongful death vendettas.  Still, she expected no mercy. 

I remember seeing an head xray with a (nondisplaced) fracture but that's not deadly .... see other concussions and the need to wake to check level of consciousness for a day or whatever.  

The first seasons had stories with Morse's Oxford friends.  Morse, rather than Endeavor, often had unexpected "old school ties" as characters.  He didn't/doesn't really have friends then or later ... dragooning Lewis for a pint rather than "drink alone" ....  Endeavor is still declining invitations. 

[freddi]

What's funny is that Oxford was in this episode, just not the venerable older buildings.  The police station where there was a long set of concrete steps leading up to a modern building is the English faculty library at Oxford.  The opening street scenes were Oxford, and the PSA with Bright was Oxford.

Am I remembering correctly that the little girl was missing for a week before she was found?  I think Thursday said at the station (before she was found) that she had been missing that long.  Yet the pathologist said she had only been dead for 24 hours.  That is horrifying -- those people that took her in rather than got her medical care basically assured that she would die a slow death.  Who does that?  What were they going to do if she got better and could have recognized them?  It makes no sense at all.  I understand there was initial shock -- but after a few days, what were they thinking?  And their own daughter had to have seen the injured child. ?????

[sugarbaker design]

59 minutes ago, freddi said:

Yes, see back on page one of this thread.  

PBS went through the final credits at double speed -- not fair to red-letter readers! 

I tried the first page, but after a couple of posts, there were posts about the second and third episodes, so I got out of there.

[freddi]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

I tried the first page, but after a couple of posts, there were posts about the second and third episodes, so I got out of there.

Oh no!  I avoid all spoilers, and luckily missed that!  But the red letters spelled “Anna Sewell, “ I believe, the author of Black Beauty.  

Edited June 18, 2019 by freddi

[jrlr]

4 hours ago, Tardislass said:

Joan is slowly getting on my nerves. Leave poor Morse alone! That is why I wish they'd get it on-then realize they would never work and she could leave town for London or some other groovy place. But I'm afraid Russell loves the will they/won't they cliche.

I do wish they could do a one-off movie of Lewis. I liked that show the best and always wondered what happened to Hathaway and how he was as a boss-did Robbie rub off on him. Mainly I just miss Rebecca Front and the gang. Sigh. 

Finally, I feel old as I remember playing with my parents 8 track tape player. Helen Reddy, Dionne Warwick, etc. Plus you really had to shove those tapes in the player to make it work. 

Lewis is my favorite, too.  I keep wishing they'd continue on (I guess this would be reaching "saga" status) with a Hathaway series, but I think that's probably very unlikely. 

Completely OT but if anyone here is also a Dorothy Sayers fan, wouldn't Laurence Fox make a fantastic Peter Wimsey?

[tootsie]

Thank you, TLJGator, for posting the whole pelican scene. Otherwise, having the head of traffic sharing the tv screen with a pelican was like some goofy insurance commercial and completely baffled me. There were no Max in the Garden scenes in the PBS MM version I saw Sunday night. Not a one. I'd remember because Max moved up the list of favored characters when in an earlier episode he made a comment about love and fishing both being about the " the one that got away." For some reason the phrase seemed awfully smart at the time. And so did Max.

[Possum]

There are too many excellent comments here to quote them all.  I'll just give my thoughts, which mostly are duplicates of what has already been posted.

When husband and I first saw Morse in this episode, we looked at each other and said "porn star" at the same time.  That big old caterpillar on top of his lip was kinda distracting.  I thought it didn't fit the Morse character and certainly didn't fit Evans.

The new jerk cops are so horrible that their eventual downfall will be so much the sweeter.  I hope that by the end of this season, Thursday gets a chance to pull out that right hook again on both of them.  

Plot wise, this episode was one of the better ones.  I am sorry to see the main characters in misery, though.  I realize that all of the characters are upset because of everything that happened last season, but I like a touch of humor and lightness.  I guess the pornstache was supposed to be the humor.

Thanks for posting the missing scene between Morse and Max.  For years I've been completely frustrated with PBS for cutting scenes, but even loudly complaining falls on deaf ears with them.   There is no excuse for it.

Thursday has always been my favorite, but he seems to be at the lowest point in his life.  Poor Win seems about ready to have a breakdown.  The best scene of the show had to be where Morse laid it on the line to Thursday telling him that he was better than all of this.

It's good that Strange was the one trying to make things right.  He's the organizer, and now I can see why he climbed the ladder.  Well, besides the Mason angle, of course.  He might not have Morse's brain, but he has other skills that Morse never will.

I could go on and on but won't bore anyone any longer.  I'm looking forward to next week to see how everything plays out.

[humbleopinion]

Shaun directs next week's episode "Apollo."

[Dessert]

“Pornstache” (often referred to as 70s pornstache) comments have been quite the thing for a while and they are amusing, but, as someone who was a teenager in the 60s, I can’t resist some commentary.

In 1969 and the early 70s mustaches like the one sported by Morse were incredibly common - almost universal. They were not porn-specific or porn-inspired. Movie stars, musicians, students, your average Joe - all sported them. No one associated mustaches with porn.

In fact, pornographic films were not seen by the majority of people. No one had vcrs yet. To see a film, you pretty much had to go to an x-rated theater or bookstore - not a everyday activity at all. Let’s just say that no one could have imagined the availability of porn that we have today.

When I read all of these comments, I can’t help but imagine huge swaths of the population watching and rewatching ancient, grainy porn. Surely this can’t be true! I find it funny, nonetheless.

[Brattinella]

23 minutes ago, Dessert said:

“Pornstache” (often referred to as 70s pornstache) comments have been quite the thing for a while and they are amusing, but, as someone who was a teenager in the 60s, I can’t resist some commentary.

In 1969 and the early 70s mustaches like the one sported by Morse were incredibly common - almost universal. They were not porn-specific or porn-inspired. Movie stars, musicians, students, your average Joe - all sported them. No one associated mustaches with porn.

In fact, pornographic films were not seen by the majority of people. No one had vcrs yet. To see a film, you pretty much had to go to an x-rated theater or bookstore - not a everyday activity at all. Let’s just say that no one could have imagined the availability of porn that we have today.

When I read all of these comments, I can’t help but imagine huge swaths of the population watching and rewatching ancient, grainy porn. Surely this can’t be true! I find it funny, nonetheless.

In the late 60's and early 70's, cops all had big bushy mustaches too.  All my boyfriends in high school eventually grew one. 

You sure got that right about porn.  My town had this seedy old theater and THAT's where you had to go if you were so inclined.  Yuck!  I saw Emmanuelle there with a girlfriend, and the floor was sticky.  Enough said.

Back to the topic: I think Shaun is as cute as the dickens and doesn't need a 'stach.

[Dessert]

15 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

Back to the topic: I think Shaun is as cute as the dickens and doesn't need a 'stach.

He’s quite lovely, and is still handsome with the facial hair. The curve of his upper lip is enchanting. I understand the reason for the mustache, but will be happy when it’s gone.

[Shanna Marie]

On 6/17/2019 at 10:25 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

However, my enthusiasm quickly dimmed when I saw how they have this police officer, who seems pretty astute, quick with details and interest, shot down by the detectives.....so, why do I feel like I've seen this done a million times in tv, movies, etc?  It's just so cliche.  Those upper investigations are insecure and agitated with a lower officer who is trying to help......reminds me of Dirty Harry theme.  I didn't finish the entire episode.  I came here to see how others are responding.  

Can someone tell me if that type of thing leaves after the first episode?

I've been rewatching season one, and the theme of Morse's genius not being recognized by his superiors seems to be pretty much baked into the series. Early in season one, it's Bright who doesn't want Morse working with Thursday because that's a job for a sergeant, and Morse hasn't passed the sergeant's exam yet. Never mind that he's the one who figures out the case. He's only grudgingly allowed to work on the case in the second episode of season one because he has specialist knowledge relating to the case, and the other detectives (aside from Thursday) are jerks about him getting involved in the case. Then after he solves the case and saves lives, Bright remarks about how going back to general duties will be a vacation for him. There's a remark made about how Morse is a great detective but a terrible policeman, meaning that he's not so good about things like procedure, policies, politics, and paperwork, and that's the stuff that the bosses tend to value. In season one, we see a lot of him doing all kinds of brilliant detective work, but he struggles when Strange is quizzing him on the sergeant's exam.

How Morse is looked down on varies by season. With Bright, it's all about procedure and whether he merits a particular assignment based on his rank, and Bright doesn't like messy, complicated things, and Morse's wild theories that lead away from the obvious perpetrator tend to mess things up. Bright wants cases closed so the box can be ticked off and everything will be tidy, and he tends to be rather classist, refusing to believe that higher-class people would commit crimes and being too ready to believe in the guilt of lower-class people, but he's not the sort that would plant evidence. Box seems to just want cases closed to get credit for it, and he doesn't care about catching the real culprit, so he'll stitch up anyone.

I do think there's a sweet spot in the middle of the series when Bright finally catches on that Morse knows what he's doing and gives him credit for it and it's less of a struggle, though during that phase they often seem to be running into bad guys that the even higher ups don't want them to bring in. But, yeah, people resenting Morse for being good at what he does is kind of an underlying theme in the whole series. I haven't seen the original Morse series, so is that just part of his character, even when he's a seasoned detective, or does he ever reach a point when everyone's willing to accept his input without scoffing at him or resenting him?

Edited June 18, 2019 by Shanna Marie
typo patrol

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I've been rewatching season one, and the theme of Morse's genius not being recognized by his superiors seems to be pretty much baked into the series. Early in season one, it's Bright who doesn't want Morse working with Thursday because that's a job for a sergeant, and Morse hasn't passed the sergeant's exam yet. Never mind that he's the one who figures out the case. He's only grudgingly allowed to work on the case in the second episode of season one because he has specialist knowledge relating to the case, and the other detectives (aside from Thursday) are jerks about him getting involved in the case. Then after he solves the case and saves lives, Bright remarks about how going back to general duties will be a vacation for him. There's a remark made about how Morse is a great detective but a terrible policeman, meaning that he's not so good about things like procedure, policies, politics, and paperwork, and that's the stuff that the bosses tend to value. In season one, we see a lot of him doing all kinds of brilliant detective work, but he struggles when Strange is quizzing him on the sergeant's exam.

How Morse is looked down on varies by season. With Bright, it's all about procedure and whether he merits a particular assignment based on his rank, and Bright doesn't like messy, complicated things, and Morse's wild theories that lead away from the obvious perpetrator tend to mess things up. Bright wants cases closed so the box can be ticked off and everything will be tidy, and he tends to be rather classist, refusing to believe that higher-class people would commit crimes and being too ready to believe in the guilt of lower-class people, but he's not the sort that would plant evidence. Box seems to just want cases closed to get credit for it, and he doesn't care about catching the real culprit, so he'll stitch up anyone.

I do thing there's a sweet spot in the middle of the series when Bright finally catches on that Morse knows what he's doing and gives him credit for it and it's less of a struggle, though during that phase they often seem to be running into bad guys that the even higher ups don't want them to bring in. But, yeah, people resenting Morse for being good at what he does is kind of an underlying theme in the whole series. I haven't seen the original Morse series, so is that just part of his character, even when he's a seasoned detective, or does he ever reach a point when everyone's willing to accept his input without scoffing at him or resenting him?

I appreciate that summary.  I'm not sure this show is for me.  It sounds so familiar and stuff like that tends to annoy me.  I may try it once more though, anyway. 

[JudyObscure]

On 6/17/2019 at 12:46 PM, tljgator said:

Did I have to go track down Bright's traffic video (with an actual pelican!)? Yes, yes, I did.

Vaguely depressing start for the group -- watching Morse & Thursday defer to the men that they would normally disparage (and had, in prior seasons) was a sad turn.  *sigh*

On 6/17/2019 at 1:06 PM, tootsie said:

Bright is a true favorite. In my mind's eye, I handled his demeaning tv scene with the pelican by replacing the creature with a tiger. (still one of my all time favorite episodes despite its stretch to my imagination)

Couldn't agree more.  A show without much Bright is a show lacking something for me. 

[Dessert]

I have a different impression of Bright. I think they started to rewrite his character to make him more sympathetic in Season 3. I like Bright and Anton Lesser, but hated the character in the first two seasons. Then, he was very much about not disturbing any powerful people or institutions, currying favor with them, and looking the other way if they committed crimes. He punished Morse for wanting to hold them accountable. A low point came in Neverland when he took credit for the paper Morse had written.

I’m glad they rewrote the character. To be true to the later stories, Morse must advance within the police force. It would have been difficult for him to do that if Bright didn’t change.

[graybrown bird]

I think Fred and Win are both still stunned by the loss of all their retirement savings.  I don't know how Fred can continue to put one foot in front of another at work, much less do his job, knowing he can't afford to retire no matter how humiliating his workplace becomes.  Win on the couch staring at the TV seemed almost catatonic with depression.

[atlantaloves]

I have always been a fan of the original Inspector Morse series, because I love a british detective that is constantly "put upon" but I have to say, this series is so so so much better, I adore Endeavor.  I think I like it more because it is told in an era in which I actually lived, I loved the 60's.  Problem is Endeavor will never be happy and will always drink too much. Sad. Terrific character development! 

[izabella]

This episode was unrelentingly grim.  I can't stand all the interdepartmental bullshit.  All the relationships I had grown to enjoy are strained and tense.  Everyone is prickly and aggressive.  All of that is distracting from the cases, both for them as detectives, and for me as a viewer.  It's becoming a chore to watch this.  I am hoping there is some sort of arc where the grim is dialed back because it's just weighing down the show too much.

Edited June 20, 2019 by izabella

[tootsie]

20 hours ago, Dessert said:

I have a different impression of Bright. I think they started to rewrite his character to make him more sympathetic in Season 3. I like Bright and Anton Lesser, but hated the character in the first two seasons. Then, he was very much about not disturbing any powerful people or institutions,

Good point. I vaguely recall those earlier episodes & how disappointing it was to have Bright written as such a stereotypical martinet. (Now, however, I realize I probably missed scenes that would have softened his character because PBS cut them as unimportant to furthering the plot.…boy, the fact that they do that really bugs me! - But I digress.)

Trewlove softened the Bright character for me & I began to like him. He was protective and respectful and eventually fond of her – maybe in a way today’s young women would find unacceptable, but never in a way I found creepy.  Simply a man of his times: the tail end of the Victorian age, I'd guess. When his family and career back story were slowly revealed, I grew to appreciate him even more.

[SusanSunflower]

Like Wallander (which many people loathed) is the story of an older detective facing old age alone as a result of choices made.  In his 60's Morse still bumps in Oxford classmates who remember his leaving college (to become a policeman) as unfathomable and Morese's brilliance. (appreciated) 

John Thaw's Morse reminded me of my father who accepted the consequences of his choices but was alone and frustrated in his 70's but still attractive to women -- intelligentm conversational, masculine,etc.  My Dad was transformed by the 60's, like Morse and others in his 40's.  I always assumed a bright mind and attractive package assured Morse -- in Oxford -- had a rocking 1960's and 70's and 80's. I'm not ready for much more "grim" ....

[LennieBriscoe]

How are we to know when episodes first air? 

I inadvertently read some posts about "Apollo," which doesn't air in the Lehigh Valley area of PA until Sunday night. 

[orza]

The entire season 6 aired on ITV back in February.

[freddi]

In the opening of "Pylon," in the mix of short images (drug addict in doorway, school picture lineup), one quick image was of the obnoxious inspector apparently at a new development/apartment highrise called Martyrs Field -- then he got in the car and drove away.  There was no followup on that short image, so I wonder if it will come back in a later episode?  I always like to go back to the opening to see how the different pieces come together.  It is unusual, perhaps unique, that this did not become part of the plot.