LuAnn de Lesseps: No Longer a Countess, Still Never a Princess

[WireWrap]

7 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

A convenient excuse and no help to the poor bastard on the hook for *drugging her with a date rape drug*. 

She's not on an involuntary commitment, she chose to go to rehab, she is not under any obligation legally to avoid her social media. She's an adult, and she has an obligation to not throw others under the bus by avoiding her responsibilities in denying false allegations.

Does she have ANY obligation to deny this story if it isn't true? Because it's a toxic accusation that can ruin lives and the longer she sits silent, the longer "Luann is the victim, she was fed date rape drugs by the man who was planning to rape her" festers.

How about the fool that made the accusation apologize for it. How about blaming the person that started it? Why blame Luann for something she didn't say? And how is this going to affect a guy that we don't know because his name hasn't been released by anyone? LOL 

Oh, and most rehabs do not allow their patients to access their personal SM accounts no matter if they are admitted voluntarily or by the courts. They are to abide by the rules of the facility/program for a reason. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by WireWrap

[Rap541]

I agree that the website generating the accusation should retract it but Luann is the person it concerns and she can quash the discussion immediately by denying it. Don't you agree?

She didn't say it, per you. She should have no problem saying "I didn't say that". I don't see why this is a "LOL" moment - I don't find the idea of someone being accused of sexual assault a laughing matter. Obviously mileage may vary. 

[archer1267]

Quote

It takes a lot to take me by surprise when it comes to the behavior of Real Housewives, but, this did surprise me.  My goodness.  Suddenly, that drunken shrub scene takes on more meaning. 

As does Sonja's comment in the Berkshires about LuAnn having her on a dog leash (or dog collar) on the front lawn. As well as Ramona and Mario's comments, way back in Season 2, about LuAnn "never being alone," even when the Count was traveling. I think LuAnn is just one of those women who can't be without a man, and *any man* is preferable to none. With her kids grown, she is probably feeling unmoored...and adrift people with money always attract hangers-on and wind up making bad decisions. 

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

I agree that the website generating the accusation should retract it but Luann is the person it concerns and she can quash the discussion immediately by denying it. Don't you agree?

She didn't say it, per you. She should have no problem saying "I didn't say that". I don't see why this is a "LOL" moment - I don't find the idea of someone being accused of sexual assault a laughing matter. Obviously mileage may vary. 

First, I use "LOL" to let others know that I am not being aggressive or personal in my posts.

Second, why should Luann deny she never said this when we already know she is not the source? Why not tell the person/blogger/tabloid who said/printed it to retract it? Again, Luann never accused anyone of sexual assault, for all we know, she may not even know it was said before she went into rehab. When a person goes into rehab, they are often cut off from the outside world in the beginning (depending on the program they are in and we don't know what program she is in).

[Rap541]

I interprete "LOL" as "Laughing Out Loud" at what's being said.

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Second, why should Luann deny she never said this when we already know she is not the source?

Because it's a horrific accusation that can ruin someone's life.

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Why not tell the person/blogger/tabloid who said/printed it to retract it?

They should as well, but unless it comes from Luann, coupled with a legal threat, they aren't likely to listen. 

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Again, Luann never accused anyone of sexual assault, for all we know, she may not even know it was said before she went into rehab. When a person goes into rehab, they are often cut off from the outside world in the beginning (depending on the program they are in and we don't know what program she is in).

A convenient excuse on her part that allows her to ruin someone and still insist she's the innocent party. Since she's insisting the rehab is due to her actions and not her alcoholism, when she is out she's free as a bird and never ever said she was a drunk and if someone is branded a rapist well, she was in rehab and couldn't do a thing and is lil miss innocent. 

If she gave a shit about the person she was with, she would make an effort since these days the rape accusation is *toxic*. More toxic than the drunk accusation she's already dealing with.  

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, Rap541 said:

I interprete "LOL" as "Laughing Out Loud" at what's being said.

Because it's a horrific accusation that can ruin someone's life.

They should as well, but unless it comes from Luann, coupled with a legal threat, they aren't likely to listen. 

A convenient excuse on her part that allows her to ruin someone and still insist she's the innocent party. Since she's insisting the rehab is due to her actions and not her alcoholism, when she is out she's free as a bird and never ever said she was a drunk and if someone is branded a rapist well, she was in rehab and couldn't do a thing and is lil miss innocent. 

If she gave a shit about the person she was with, she would make an effort since these days the rape accusation is *toxic*. More toxic than the drunk accusation she's already dealing with.  

Does anyone even know if Luann knows that someone made that accusation before she went into rehab? If not, then we don't know that she knows about it so that she can clarify that it didn't happen. 

With that I am out of this conversation with you as we are on a merry go round getting nowhere. We will have to agree to disagree.

[Rap541]

http://popculture.com/reality-tv/2017/12/29/luann-de-lesseps-being-slut-shamed-after-arrest/

This article is actually dated Dec 28 if one reads it. It references how she may have been drugged and "maybe raped".

She went into rehab in theory on Dec 29 - thats when she said anyway. 

The accusations were already out there. 

[zoeysmom]

4 hours ago, gundysgirl said:

I would think that “entitled behavior” looks different to different people, just as many see behaviors differently or through our own experiences. I think that Luann has tried to keep herself in check for the last few years, but some things are hard to let go of. It was only a couple of years ago that she was admitting to meeting her “soulmate” when he was on a date with another woman and proclaimed that she won when he left with her.  No shame in her game at all. No empathy for the woman who arrived on that date with Tom. That is entitled behavior to me (not to minimize the fact that Tom was the bigger asshole). 

She also took entitled to a whole new level last year when she told Bethenny - her host - that she would have expected the best room, considering her newly married status. She felt like she was entitled to the best the resort had to offer and someone else should be expected to accept less. 

Neither of these things happened 8 years ago, or 6, or 4. They are fairly recent and indicative of her true nature, which is to feel she is entitled. 

Well it was interesting that Bethenny admitted Luann had a shitty room.  I do think it has a lot to do with what these women sign up for contractually.  I thought Luann sounded lame throwing out the honeymoon reason instead of just saying the room sucked, there was no electrical outlet for her blow dryer and she was sharing a bathroom with strangers.  All good reasons to be unhappy.  Luann gets herself in trouble when she tries to dance around the reality of the situation.  She is not particularly good with her rationalizations.  I would be mad to be stuck in the basement when everyone else had a fairly nice room.  

As I said earlier Luann suffers from instant gratification syndrome.  She sees, she wants. Tom is the perfect example of getting bitten in the butt for not curbing this trait.  I also think she needs to up her game and stop hanging out in hotel bars.  That is just me.  

[diadochokinesis]

7 hours ago, film noire said:

I don't need you to agree with me at all -- disagree away! -- and I'm not insisting you do anything other than allow me to disagree with you that Luann's behaviour is radically different from her castmates.

They've all done things, imo,  that could get them arrested, minus their privilege.

It is  -- and comparisons between housewives routinely turn up in each designated thread (pretty sure that's allowed, as long as it's not multiple posts/thread derailment). 

I think it's tacky none of them have said anything about this yet -- not even a "Good luck with that mess you made, Lulu!" - I know they all calculate the odds like bookies, but you can throw a bone while making it clear you don't endorse Luann's behaviour. 

3

Somebody else mentioned this but there is a possibility that the Housewives might not be able to comment on current happenings while the season is filming. 

1 hour ago, breezy424 said:

Wait.  There was nothing in the police report that Lu was having sex in the bed in that hotel room.  Nothing from housekeeping.  And from what I get from that report, the housekeeper immediately told them they were in the wrong room.  And given the timeline, Lu's ex tried to get her out of there and when he couldn't he went back to the bar to get help from her friend. 

I get that people don't like Lu.  I've had years that I couldn't stand her.  But I'm trying to see this all objectively.  Yes.  She totally screwed up that night.  Yes.  She broke the law.  However, I do think that there are things that are being blown out of proportion.

BTW, I brought up in my last post about behavior in Mexico.  I did so because of Lu's falling into the bush and how disgraceful that seemed to many.  I also brought up others behavior in Mexico because if Lu's behavior was so bad, wasn't So, Beth and Dorinda's behavior just as bad?  I don't see that apples to oranges because I was talking specifically about behavior in Mexico.  There are many examples of these housewives behaving badly and I don't think I have to reiterate the list.  And everyone is going to have their opinions as to which is worse.  There will never be agreement.

I feel bad for Lu.  It's been a rough year.  And yeah, she shouldn't have ever married Tom.  But I think all of us have made mistakes in our life.  Stupid mistakes.  That's what makes us human.  I hope she works her stuff out.

2

I'm one of those who will typically speak out against drunk people just because I have issues with drunk people (yay being related to alcoholics!). I have always felt that Sonja has serious issues with alcohol and needed rehab several seasons ago. Dorinda worries me too and she is an ANGRY drunk. I'd leave the room the minute I saw her with liquor. Bethenny seems to drink but I've always gotten the idea that she was better in control of it than the others. She seems to go to tipsy and then just stay there. 

As far as everyone commenting on the skinny dipping...  Enh, Americans are prudes about nudity. I don't equate going topless with being dangerously drunk. If so, most of the people in my compound are always drunk then.  LOL. As far as the Housewives in Mexico... They were in a private estate (yes, it was being filmed but they also know that stuff would be blurred). They weren't running around on a public street or in a bar with their tops off. 

[zoeysmom]

I am just wagering a guess, I believe Luann retained counsel shortly after her arraignment and is not commenting other than some pretty generic apologies about the situation.  So I don't expect an explanation-much like Kim Richards arrest when stories were all over the place what went down.  Our curiosity doesn't outweigh Luann's right to a defense.  (Shucks.)

I am having a hard time following what went down.  Other than the obvious that Luann disobeyed an order from safety personnel to vacate a room she was not registered in.  She allegedly closed a door on a safety officer and made verbal threats.

I still haven't figured out if she did the deed with the guy, how the housekeeper would know if she was the registered guest in the room, if she was naked when security arrived (which might explain why she didn't want people entering the bathroom).

As to her involuntarily being given a substance that might exacerbate the alcohol she had consumed, I gather it is speculation on someone's part.  I would think the first thing a defense attorney would do is request Luann's hotel bar tab and determine how many drinks she imbibed prior to her arrest.  Her friend seemed to be angry at assertions she was drunk.  

Bottom line I expect this situation will be like Kim Richards where Luann's counsel cuts a deal and there is never a trial.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, diadochokinesis said:

Somebody else mentioned this but there is a possibility that the Housewives might not be able to comment on current happenings while the season is filming. 

Yeah, you (and Zoey's Mom, iirc) are probably right, and it's contractual. I guess we'll find out who supported her behind the scenes when Luann has the inevitable Andy Cohen sitdown (while wearing a statement necklace made of giant crystals and engraved with "One Day at a Time", from her new Stone Cold Sober jewelry line).

Edited December 31, 2017 by film noire

[mbaywife123]

Okay here is how I feel about the whole Luanne debacle:

No problem with being toasted and getting your rocks off in your own room between two consenting adults.

Big problem being "naked wasted" in someone else's room and assaulting law enforcement officers physically and verbally. UNCOOL!

[Celia Rubenstein]

What is with this "safety officer" stuff? This wasn't a 6th grade hall monitor Luann shoved and slammed the door on. It was a badge wearing, uniform wearing, gun carrying POLICE OFFICER. 

She is damn lucky they didn't taser her ass and drag her bodily to the cruiser. It's what would have happened to her if she pulled this shit in a Motel Six on the other side of the bridge.

And until I see a blackout drunk  Bethenny Frankel arrested for physically tangling with a cop after refusing his order to stop skinny dipping in someone's private home swimming pool, that whole "but whaddabout" line of defense is utterly and completely irrelevant. Apples and spaceships? Was that the expression? Yeah that.

[zoeysmom]

12 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

What is with this "safety officer" stuff? This wasn't a 6th grade hall monitor Luann shoved and slammed the door on. It was a badge wearing, uniform wearing, gun carrying POLICE OFFICER. 

She is damn lucky they didn't taser her ass and drag her bodily to the cruiser. It's what would have happened to her if she pulled this shit in a Motel Six on the other side of the bridge.

And until I see a blackout drunk  Bethenny Frankel arrested for physically tangling with a cop after refusing his order to stop skinny dipping in someone's private home swimming pool, that whole "but whaddabout" line of defense is utterly and completely irrelevant. Apples and spaceships? Was that the expression? Yeah that.

One of the reports claims it was a fireman not a cop.  Erring on the side of caution I just used a catch all phrase.

I would hope no one would be subjected to be tasered and having their ass and being thrown in a cruiser.  I have a visceral dislike of anyone wishing bodily harm on someone via the hands of the police. This series of events started as a misdemeanor charges-essentially Luann was trespassing.  Further she wasn't even charged with trespassing.  Things got serious when Luann refused to obey and became physical.  

This franchise and NJ have an appalling lack of respect for others' property and personal space.  Luann has now joined the ranks of being one of those people.  Behavior can be offensive without being criminal.  I might not like it if my husband went to work as a waiter and the guests got naked in front of him.  I don't think it is cute or funny for anyone to get drunk and lose control but apparently Bravo finds it entertaining as all get out.

[Celia Rubenstein]

44 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I would hope no one would be subjected to be tasered and having their ass and being thrown in a cruiser.  I have a visceral dislike of anyone wishing bodily harm on someone via the hands of the police. 

I haven't seen a single poster here wish bodily harm via the police on Luann. If you were referring to my last post, I clearly stated that Luann was lucky she wasn't handled more roughly ... I certainly never stated that I wished she had been.  

 

44 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Behavior can be offensive without being criminal. 

I think the behavior Luann is accused of is quite clearly both. One she will answer for in a court of law. The other she will answer for in the court of public opinion.  I think she will pay a higher price in the long run for the offensiveness of what she did rather than for her criminal behavior.  Her reputation has been destroyed (or confirmed, depending on who you believed, lol).  What was left of her image after her ridiculous marriage to Tom has been shattered.  She may minimize the perception that she is an out of control alcoholic by attending  rehab, but her entitled, elitist attitude that led her to dismiss "the help" when they dared to challenge her is not going to be easily forgotten. The image of the countess in handcuffs struggling with the police, kicking at the cruiser windows is now part of who she is.

I think the blows to her pride and her image will be more painful for Luann than anything the court does to her.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[film noire]

Quote

Luann has now joined the ranks of being one of those people.

She has, and whoever convinced her to go to rehab  - the secular church of celebrities -- just gave her a redemption arc she couldn't buy, and a lifeline she might genuinely need.   And (given the current world full of elected officials, priests, judges, musicians, etc who have done far worse and suffered not at all) this was the perfect time to be a minor jackass seeking major mercy.  

[Guest]

7 hours ago, WireWrap said:

We will have to agree to disagree.

A wise observation.

[Aethera]

Folks, this discussion is getting way into argument territory. Please remember, no one here has to justify their opinions. It’s best to just state your opinion once and move on. Please take the heat down a few notches, or we’ll have to start removing posts.

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, film noire said:

She has, and whoever convinced her to go to rehab  - the secular church of celebrities -- just gave her a redemption arc she couldn't buy, and a lifeline she might genuinely need.   And (given the current world full of elected officials, priests, judges, musicians, etc who have done far worse and suffered not at all) this was the perfect time to be a minor jackass seeking major mercy.  

Rehab it is a popular option for people of all walks of life to get sober.  After the mess that is Kim Richards, I don't know if it is a redemption arc or if people will see it as a cop out. Some  forty years after Betty Ford publicly admitted to addiction issues, there is still a stigma attached to people who have addiction issues and seek treatment.  Somehow there will be someone on the inside giving Ramona updates and Ramona will share.  Ramona will regale the others with Luann's progress or lack thereof.  

I went back and looked at Luann's Instagram photos and she was trying way too hard to give the appearance she had moved on from the disaster that was her marriage.  My guess is it did not take much convincing that Luann enter rehab. She make lack insight but I do think she has a strong desire to be healthy and not bottom out further.  To me rehab is the antidote Luann needs to curb her self destructive behavior.   It will be interesting to see if Luann chooses the Season 3 Kim Richards who spoke out and wanted to help others or the Season 6 Kim Richards who said speaking out didn't work for her.  My guess her family and close non RH friends have probably been watching Luann downward spiral for a long time.  Her hooking up and committing to Tom-who seems to have his own issues with alcohol was probably very worrisome to her family and close friends.  A little like Days of Wine and Roses.

I remember this quote from Betty Ford, when she discussed her addictions,"My addiction was a combination of alcohol and the prescription drugs that ... both were a part of my life, but they did not become a problem until they overrode my common sense."  "I didn't know what was happening, I just knew that I felt great and the pain was gone."  I think Luann for a fairly extended period of time has been self medicating.  At the last Reunion she had a hard time admitting Tom's words and behavior hurt her.  Again with Luann she over rationalizes when the truth would suffice.

[Cherrio]

Time will tell, but I do not think Luann has any intention of going into rehab other than using it as a very flimsy band-aid for court.

I do not think she will ever admit to being an alcoholic because without her drinks who is she?  She really only has her nightly bar hotel hopping, latching onto men and sex. Throw in a dinner here and there, but that would entail some real conversation which I have never seen Luann capable of.

I think she latched onto to the Count as she has every other man via easy sex and as another poster pointed has never recovered from being dumped by him.

She would have to acknowledge she has led a totally inauthentic life, pretending to be a classy sophisticated woman.  Nothing wrong at all with being a not so smart unsophisticated person from nowhere Conn. Instead she took her title seriously and used it a lot of the time as many here have said to demean people and feel superior.  Her act fooled few but she hung on for dear life.

Nope, I think she will continue with her "bottled" up emotions from her wedding and say she just needed a breather, a rest and a little help from a therapist.

Again, as another poster pointed out and I think we have all seen for ourselves Luann cannot seem to be without a man even for a short time. What little personality she has seems to be all about being wanted sexually. It seems to be so pathological that she is well known for walking away with men on dates with others, married men and men who clearly do not give a crap about her.   Remember she didn't care that Tom was kissing a woman at the Regency, she was angry he got caught.   That is extremely telling how empty and pathetic she is.   She doesn't deal with things in a healthy manner, instead she slaps him around and supposedly even bit him.

       So I doubt very much she will stop drinking because it would mean giving up most of herself and her lifestyle.  It might take a few more incidents and some real jail time.

The court would be doing her a favor for making no deals and sending her away now, full charges and the sentence that goes with it.

[itsadryheat]

34 minutes ago, Cherrio said:

I think she latched onto to the Count as she has every other man via easy sex

Wasn't she living with another guy when she split with the count? Dude went out of town, Lu ditched him. No wonder she wasn't fazed by "winning" Tom from his date. Pattern meet Karma.

[film noire]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Rehab it is a popular option for people of all walks of life to get sober. 

It is, but imo, celebs use it most as a visible tool of public redemption; first the mug shot, then the entry into rehab, then the serious post-rehab interview (I'm old enough to remember when Barbara Walters was the first stop on that tour :)  and then the charity work,  the new project when sober, the magazine covers ("Rehab saved my life! Plus ten diet tips I learned getting sober!") 

Quote

I went back and looked at Luann's Instagram photos and she was trying way too hard to give the appearance she had moved on from the disaster that was her marriage.

Yeah, she was trying to sell her personal growth like those Evine schmattas.

Quote

After the mess that is Kim Richards, I don't know if it is a redemption arc or if people will see it as a cop out

I agree, that will be in play. (I think the people who hate her will see it as a cop-out, the people who adore her will applaud it, and the people who are indifferent will remain so.) 

I do think rehab is important (among other reasons) in that it gives Luann a new narrative to place herself within, a way to frame her post-Tom life that might return some personal meaning to her.  Before this, she was a woman with several broken relationships and two failed marriages - the second divorce an explosion of such public/epic proportions that if it were satire, it would seem over the top - and the humiliation and loss of self respect likely drove her into even heavier drinking.  No more Luann living the lush life, just Luann the lush. Rehab gives her a chance to see herself, and present herself to the world  in a very different way. The stories we tell ourselves -- about who we think we are, and why we are the way we are - shape everything, and her self-story (Plucky beauty from Connecticut wins the world!) took a brutal beating.  This is her chance to see herself with less dollar signs (What's my value to men in the marriage market?) and more depth (My value exists separate from anything out there).  She's a narc -- like every one of her castmates -- so she's up against hard odds when it comes to self awareness, but this is her best shot at that, imo.  And if nothing else, having to include this in her narrative is a significant change. 

 

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A little like Days of Wine and Roses.

 Luann Remick :)

Edited December 31, 2017 by film noire

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

It is, but imo, celebs use it most as a visible tool of public redemption; first the mug shot, then the entry into rehab, then the serious post-rehab interview (I'm old enough to remember when Barbara Walters was the first stop on that tour :)  and then the charity work,  the new project when sober, the magazine covers ("Rehab saved my life! Plus ten diet tips I learned getting sober!") 

Yeah, she was trying to sell her personal growth like those evine schmattas.

I agree, that will be in play. (I think the people who hate her will see it as a cop-out, the people who adore her will applaud it, and the people who are indifferent will remain so.) 

I do think rehab is important (among other reasons) in that it gives Luann a new narrative to place herself within, a way to frame her post-Tom life that might return some personal meaning to her.  Before this, she was a woman with several broken relationships and two failed marriages - the second divorce an explosion of such public/epic proportions that if it were satire, it would seem over the top - and the humiliation and loss of self respect likely drove her into even heavier drinking.  No more Luann living the lush life, just Luann the lush. Rehab gives her a chance to see herself, and present herself to the world  in a very different way. The stories we tell ourselves -- about who we think we are, and why we are the way we are - shape everything, and her self-story (Plucky beauty from Connecticut wins the world!) took a brutal beating.  This is her chance to see herself with less dollar signs (What's my value to men in the marriage market?) and more depth (My value exists separate from anything out there).  She's a narc -- like every one of her castmates -- so she's up against hard odds when it comes to self awareness, but this is her best shot at that, imo.  And if nothing else, having to include this in her narrative is a significant change. 

 

 Luann Remick :)

Luann is living proof that no one ever says, they thrive on rejection and/or humiliation or they are a bad judge of character.  

I think Luann's first come to Jesus moment in rehab will be when they reveal the results of the liver panel to her.  She may have been off the sauce for four or five days so they won't be as elevated as they were the 24 hours after her arrest.

I do think she will probably re-evaluate her priorities.  Rehab is as good a place as any to go down that path. 

I am wondering what her tagline will be next season.  "Divorced, sober and ready to . . . . "  

[ladle]

On 12/26/2017 at 6:05 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I guess Lu's swinging from a chandelier with a man on her back comment wasn't hypothetical.  How loud does sex have to be to get thrown out of a hotel?

Wasn't she in the wrong room though?  I'm so confused...

[WireWrap]

28 minutes ago, ladle said:

Wasn't she in the wrong room though?  I'm so confused...

Yes, she was in the wrong room and refused to leave, which is what caused the hotel security to call the police, it had nothing to do with her having "loud" sex. LOL And, Luann's "swinging from the chandelier" comment was about others respecting her, each others, privacy.

[NeverLate]

15 hours ago, WireWrap said:

If she is in rehab, she may not be allowed to access her SM accounts now, so we will have to wait until she gets out to see what she says happened. The fact is that she, herself, has blamed no one but herself for her conduct that night, not the guy, not the maid, not the hotel security person, not the police, no one but herself. 

I think she owned that behaviour, by saying sorry.. To me she's as BSC as the rest of this lot. I think the holidays are emotional enough, add to this I think she believed she was going to be with Tom. All this time she's been saying she's fine, when she hasn't been. I hope she has true friends to turn to...

54 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Luann is living proof that no one ever says, they thrive on rejection and/or humiliation or they are a bad judge of character.  

I think Luann's first come to Jesus moment in rehab will be when they reveal the results of the liver panel to her.  She may have been off the sauce for four or five days so they won't be as elevated as they were the 24 hours after her arrest.

I do think she will probably re-evaluate her priorities.  Rehab is as good a place as any to go down that path. 

I am wondering what her tagline will be next season.  "Divorced, sober and ready to . . . . "  

Live my life again...

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Divorced, sober and ready to . . . . "  

Live my life one day at a time. 

[film noire]

14 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 that whole "but whaddabout" line of defense is utterly and completely irrelevant. 

I think it's relevant b/c people were discussing whether or not Luann had done something far worse than any other housewife - and assessing that is in the eye of the beholder & we've all got a different sliding scale, but to me, Sonja and Betheny have done things I find far more repulsive (Sonja driving drunk and Frankel bringing a credibly accused rapist on outings with her kid) with Ramona & Kelly coming in second  (Ramona throwing a glass at someone's face & Kelly Bensimmon punching her boyfriend). And given that Kelly and Sonja were arrested (alongside -- what? -- five or six other housewives in other franchises?) this doesn't strike me as something outside the realm of these shows overall, or this cast in particular. YMMV (and last word left to you, to spare the mods :)

eta: I also think people are often more forgiving of drunken sexcapades gone wrong (than acts of physical violence while sober, say) so Luann has that in her favour with the public as well.

Quote

.  "Divorced, sober and ready to . . . . " 

Smell the roses ; )

Edited December 31, 2017 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

2 minutes ago, film noire said:

I think it's relevant b/c people were discussing whether or not Luann had done something far worse than any other housewife assessing that is in the eye of the beholder & we've all got a differnt sliding scale

... exactly. Someone brings up something another housewife did - usually Bethenny- to say how much worse what she did is than whatever thing someone else has done. As if the misdeeds of one housewife cancels out the wrongdoing of another. 

I myself look at each HW as an individual. There is no sliding scale for me.  I judge their behavior independently and don't cut anyone slack because of what someone else once did. 

I guess I feel like that because I think that's the most fair approach. In life, nobody gets a break because their co-worker did something worse. Plus I really get tired of rehashing what other housewives have done over and over and over. YMMV

12 minutes ago, film noire said:

Smell the roses ; )

Yes, but preferably not by getting so drunk that you stumble and fall face first into them. 

[WireWrap]

9 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

... exactly. Someone brings up something another housewife did - usually Bethenny- to say how much worse what she did is than whatever thing someone else has done. As if the misdeeds of one housewife cancels out the wrongdoing of another. 

I myself look at each HW as an individual. There is no sliding scale for me.  I judge their behavior independently and don't cut anyone slack because of what someone else once did. 

I guess I feel like that because I think that's the most fair approach. In life, nobody gets a break because their co-worker did something worse. Plus I really get tired of rehashing what other housewives have done over and over and over. YMMV

Yes, but preferably not by getting so drunk that you stumble and fall face first into them. 

Well, if that the case, then we have only seen Luann get stupid drunk, in Mexico when she fell into the rose bushes, once and we have never seen or heard of her doing anything illegal either, which makes this arrest a bit surprising, unexpected and sad. It's been an emotional year for her, so I am willing to give her a second chance, not rush to judge her and hope for the best for her. 

[film noire]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Well, if that the case, then we have only seen Luann get stupid drunk, in Mexico when she fell into the rose bushes, once and we have never seen or heard of her doing anything illegal either, which makes this arrest a bit surprising, unexpected and sad. 

That's true - for all her sins, she didn't have a brutally reckless energy on the show, or the whiff of a raging law-breaker about her. 

Quote

 It's been an emotional year for her, so I am willing to give her a second chance, not rush to judge her 

I don't have a problem judging her (or any of them :) It's just that -- for me - the content of the act doesn't rise to a horrible level.

On my sliding scale of shitty things, I consider an arrest around drunken sex gone wrong much less horrific than an arrest around drunk driving -- so Luann does not win this particular crown.

Edited December 31, 2017 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

17 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Well, if that the case, then we have only seen Luann get stupid drunk, in Mexico when she fell into the rose bushes, once and we have never seen or heard of her doing anything illegal..

Luann also seems to have gotten quite drunk down in PB last weekend (how soon they forget LOL) plus there were the stories written about her behavior before she was a Real Housewife - grabbing the mic to sing, some kind of physical altercation with the count in a parking lot. All alleged to be drunken shenanigans. Her reputation as a drinker seems well known among the other housewives. Then there are all the hints and references to her hooking up with a number of men, not to mention what has actually been shown of her picking up pirates and married men on trips and in bars. 

All that to say I really can't say that I'm entirely surprised she ran into some serious trouble with men and alcohol. Granted the scale of what she's alleged to have done is rather shocking - it' the fighting with police that really puts it over the top. That's what got her arrested. But as far as the rest of it goes .... I can't say I'm terribly surprised.

If only Luann had just walked out of that hotel room when she was asked to by the maid or by the security guard or by the police officer ...none of this would have happened. She would not have been arrested, it never would have been in the news. Kind of makes you wonder how many times she was actually just barely sober enough to follow directions and managed to avoid being arrested LOL just kidding but seriously .... this behavior with her did not come out of nowhere. I think it's been escalating for a long time and finally just blew up right in her face. Hopefully she will get get real help. She obviously needs it.

[WireWrap]

8 minutes ago, film noire said:

That's true - for all her sins, she didn't have a brutally reckless energy on the show, or the whiff of a raging law-breaker about her. 

I don't have a problem judging her (or any of them :) It's just that -- for me - the content of the act doesn't rise to a horrible level. On my sliding scale of shitty things, I consider an arrest around drunken sex gone wrong much less horrific than an arrest around drunk driving -- so Luann does not win this particular crown.

I mean judging her in the context of going into rehab like she has done or not judging her for not saying more about this on SM outside of her 2 apologies because we all judge them, good/bad/indifferent (although, indifferent gets you fired LOL).

As for her past haughty behavior on the show, I take into consideration how she has been open/freer these last 4-5 years and less inclined to play THE Countess and cut her some slack. I do agree, that all things considered by all of the HWs on this/all HW shows, her arrest is minor in comparison to some of the others. 

[Wendy]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I am wondering what her tagline will be next season.  "Divorced, sober and ready to . . . . "  

 

 

From Countess to Convict in one year time 

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Luann also seems to have gotten quite drunk down in PB last weekend (how soon they forget LOL) plus there were the stories written about her behavior before she was a Real Housewife - grabbing the mic to sing, some kind of physical altercation with the count in a parking lot. All alleged to be drunken shenanigans. Her reputation as a drinker seems well known among the other housewives. Then there are all the hints and references to her hooking up with a number of men, not to mention what has actually been shown of her picking up pirates and married men on trips and in bars. 

All that to say I really can't say that I'm entirely surprised she ran into some serious trouble with men and alcohol. Granted the scale of what she's alleged to have done is rather shocking - it' the fighting with police that really puts it over the top. That's what got her arrested. But as far as the rest of it goes .... I can't say I'm terribly surprised.

If only Luann had just walked out of that hotel room when she was asked to by the maid or by the security guard or by the police officer ...none of this would have happened. She would not have been arrested, it never would have been in the news. Kind of makes you wonder how many times she was actually just barely sober enough to follow directions and managed to avoid being arrested LOL just kidding but seriously .... this behavior with her did not come out of nowhere. I think it's been escalating for a long time and finally just blew up right in her face. Hopefully she will get get real help. She obviously needs it.

I was referring to what we have seen on the show, not the PB incident, because you posted about not comparing her behavior to the others on the show, the "show" being central to my post. Rumors/old gossip don't mean anything in that we haven't seen it ourselves, in other words, we haven't seen her drunk outside of the Mexico trip last season. As for the others comments about her, they have all said that she has a "hollow leg", and that they never saw Luann as drunk as she was in Mexico before, that it surprised them, so I will take their word, that her getting that wasted is not normal for her.

[Rap541]

Quote

Luann also seems to have gotten quite drunk down in PB last weekend (how soon they forget LOL) plus there were the stories written about her behavior before she was a Real Housewife - grabbing the mic to sing, some kind of physical altercation with the count in a parking lot. All alleged to be drunken shenanigans. Her reputation as a drinker seems well known among the other housewives. Then there are all the hints and references to her hooking up with a number of men, not to mention what has actually been shown of her picking up pirates and married men on trips and in bars. 

If I recall - and I freely admit I could be wrong, wasn't she the one who got drunk and brought back a strange man and upset Heather because that's actually kinda dangerous behavior?

And I totally remember the sketchy news articles about Luann and men while she was married, and how she would deny it when called on it.

Wirewrap - - I am certain that Sonya's DUI and Bethenny's throwing of a drink didn't actually happen on the show either. I mean, technically we haven't seen Luann's arrest on the show as of yet.

[ScoobieDoobs]

You know, she really should be in sex rehab too.  This isn't just about the drinking.  Still going for peen after 50 is all well & nice.  But look at what trouble it's getting her into.  Her sex life could get her killed.  If she were my mother, I'd be scared shitless she'd end up dead with her thoat cut, with her hook-up habits.

How she behaved with the police is so disturbing to me.  Was she that incapacitated from booze?  Did the booze bring this out or is it merely indicative of her true haughty nature?  I mean, her reaction to the police trying to interact with her.  I'm sure cruel people like Satan Andy & Bethenny are chuckling over this.  I don't think ANY of this is hilarious.

Actually, seeing this spotlight on what an entitled snoot Lu really is makes me angry.  I hope the PB DA's office goes after her to serve some time.  The police should not be treated this way.  Her bullshit statement on this is extremely annoying.  So Lu, you'll use this experience to go forward in a more positive way, eh?  Jeez, what a bunch of horseshit.  Fuck you, Lu, for your phony-baloney crap!

Edited January 1, 2018 by ScoobieDoobs

[Celia Rubenstein]

6 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I was referring to what we have seen on the show, not the PB incident, because you posted about not comparing her behavior to the others on the show, the "show" being central to my post. Rumors/old gossip don't mean anything in that we haven't seen it ourselves, in other words, we haven't seen her drunk outside of the Mexico trip last season. As for the others comments about her, they have all said that she has a "hollow leg", and that they never saw Luann as drunk as she was in Mexico before, that it surprised them, so I will take their word, that her getting that wasted is not normal for her.

When I posted about not comparing Lu's behavior to that of others on the show, I did not mean I don't take into account things that have been reported but weren't on the show. Just the same as stuff with Bethenny's divorce or social media that wasn't on the show ... I don't just ignore all that stuff that and only go by what I see on an episode. Too much juicy drama stuff happens off camera to be ignored! LOL

Of course rumors and gossip are certainly not established facts, I realize. But comparing that kind of thing to what you see on TV that's been scripted and edited by Bravo, I can't say that what is shown in an episode is all that much more reliable then what appears in Page Six, so there' that ....

Regarding Luann's reputation for drinking, I think that was a topic that got worn out around the time she ate the rose bushes so I don't want to delve back into that except to say that not everyone agreed about what her castmates' comments really meant .... some took it to mean that Lu drinks a whole lot, some people took it to mean that she can handle drinking a whole lot. But I think the undeniable up shot of what has been said about Luann is people have seen her drink a whole lot.  Otherwise how else would they know how much she can drink or how drunk she was in Mexico vis-a-vis other occasions LOL.  

[Celia Rubenstein]

27 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Wirewrap - - I am certain that Sonya's DUI and Bethenny's throwing of a drink didn't actually happen on the show either. I mean, technically we haven't seen Luann's arrest on the show as of yet.

Most of the discussion in the Bethenny thread pertains to stuff that was never on the show. So I don't feel bad bringing up Luann's off-screen antics LOL

I might have missed an episode or two but did they ever bring up Sonia being arrested for DUI on the show? I don't recall it ever being mentioned. I can't imagine they just ignored it.

[Wendy]

33 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

If I recall - and I freely admit I could be wrong, wasn't she the one who got drunk and brought back a strange man and upset Heather because that's actually kinda dangerous behavior?

And I totally remember the sketchy news articles about Luann and men while she was married, and how she would deny it when called on it.

Wirewrap - - I am certain that Sonya's DUI and Bethenny's throwing of a drink didn't actually happen on the show either. I mean, technically we haven't seen Luann's arrest on the show as of yet.

1

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/26/real-housewives-countess_n_121372.html 

Then, LuAnn, who was there with her husband, Alexandre Count de Lesseps, seemed overwhelmed with affection for her fellow guests. “She was trying to make out with women and married men,” the source said. “A pregnant wife caught her in the act, stormed off and walked home in disgust.”

Alexandre “tried to make her leave and was seen throwing her to the ground in the parking lot,” our spy continued.

“She wasn’t just kissing the married men, she was also grabbing their [crotches],” another witness told The Post’s Braden Keil, adding that one male victim was the escort of one of her TV co-stars.

 

Oh yes, Luann's wild behavior is very well documented, she has zero respect for other people's feelings, she has gotten along with this behavior for a very long time. When Luann wants someone, she will get him/her hell or high water. That might be the reason why this has affected her so badly, Tom is the same version of herself. 

[film noire]

...somebody's embracing something this holiday eve (reminds me of the Twilight Zone marathons on New Year's Eve: "You are now entering the Countess dimension..") 

Edited December 31, 2017 by film noire

[WireWrap]

51 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

When I posted about not comparing Lu's behavior to that of others on the show, I did not mean I don't take into account things that have been reported but weren't on the show. Just the same as stuff with Bethenny's divorce or social media that wasn't on the show ... I don't just ignore all that stuff that and only go by what I see on an episode. Too much juicy drama stuff happens off camera to be ignored! LOL

Of course rumors and gossip are certainly not established facts, I realize. But comparing that kind of thing to what you see on TV that's been scripted and edited by Bravo, I can't say that what is shown in an episode is all that much more reliable then what appears in Page Six, so there' that ....

Regarding Luann's reputation for drinking, I think that was a topic that got worn out around the time she ate the rose bushes so I don't want to delve back into that except to say that not everyone agreed about what her castmates' comments really meant .... some took it to mean that Lu drinks a whole lot, some people took it to mean that she can handle drinking a whole lot. But I think the undeniable up shot of what has been said about Luann is people have seen her drink a whole lot.  Otherwise how else would they know how much she can drink or how drunk she was in Mexico vis-a-vis other occasions LOL.  

You are right, Bethenny's divorce was not on the show per say but her divorce/custody agreement happened while she was on the show and she talked about it herself as did her BF Carole. And, most of the info we have on it comes directly from court transcripts, so very different than rumors/unsubstantiated gossip  from before there even was a NY HW show. Now, if someone came out, using their own name, not some "unnamed source" and said they saw Luann slap the Count or "kiss married men", I would consider it more than just some nasty rumor mongering. I do take most gossip about these HWs with a grain of salt unless we see the HW in question exhibit similar behavior on the show. Again, we haven't seen Luann fall down/black out drunk outside of this past Mexico trip (and neither have the other HWs according to them) and we have never seen Luann break the law either. To be honest, I would not have been surprised if this had been Sonja, as we have seen her that drunk on the show quite a few times.

40 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Most of the discussion in the Bethenny thread pertains to stuff that was never on the show. So I don't feel bad bringing up Luann's off-screen antics LOL

I might have missed an episode or two but did they ever bring up Sonia being arrested for DUI on the show? I don't recall it ever being mentioned. I can't imagine they just ignored it.

Yes but again as I said above, many of the divorce/custody comments are base on facts we know from court transcripts or from Bethenny herself.

I don't remember anyone on the show, including Sonja herself, talking about her getting a DUI but I may have missed it. They may have mentioned it when they were talking about an "intervention" for her before the TC trip.

9 minutes ago, film noire said:

...somebody's embracing something this holiday eve:

 

If this is Luann actually tweeting this then she needs to think about saying (tweeting) she was not drugged in PB. 

[NeverLate]

Well she already has a gig.

 

https://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/luann-de-lesseps-planning-cabaret-show/amp/

 

Good for you Lu!:) 

[ScoobieDoobs]

41 minutes ago, Wendy said:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/26/real-housewives-countess_n_121372.html 

Then, LuAnn, who was there with her husband, Alexandre Count de Lesseps, seemed overwhelmed with affection for her fellow guests. “She was trying to make out with women and married men,” the source said. “A pregnant wife caught her in the act, stormed off and walked home in disgust.”

Alexandre “tried to make her leave and was seen throwing her to the ground in the parking lot,” our spy continued.

“She wasn’t just kissing the married men, she was also grabbing their [crotches],” another witness told The Post’s Braden Keil, adding that one male victim was the escort of one of her TV co-stars.

 

Oh yes, Luann's wild behavior is very well documented, she has zero respect for other people's feelings, she has gotten along with this behavior for a very long time. When Luann wants someone, she will get him/her hell or high water. That might be the reason why this has affected her so badly, Tom is the same version of herself. 

Yeah, we've gotten hints from the very first season of who Lu actually is.  Moaner said it outright that she & the Count were "cheating on each other like crazy".  And she said herself that she was going out downtown all the time.  Nights out with the girls?  Ha!  Her kids barely knew who she was cuz she was never around.  Too busy chasing peen.  Rosie (wherever she is now) raised her kids.  If they're decent adults, it's only cuz of Rosie.

I still remember her convo with the icky pirate.  Gave me the creeps.  But it's surely her routine to get the next peen.  After booze rehab, Lu, get to peen rehab.

[HunterHunted]

42 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

If I recall - and I freely admit I could be wrong, wasn't she the one who got drunk and brought back a strange man and upset Heather because that's actually kinda dangerous behavior?

She and Ramona both brought guys back, but Lu slept with hers and sent him on his way. Ramona teased hers, maybe made out with him, and let him sleep in the room that was on the other side of Heather's jack and jill bathroom without telling Heather. When Heather discovered him, Ramona lied and said he was Luann's guy.

Luann actually needs to be in therapy about why she needs to be with a guy. During that trip to the Turks and Caicos, I think it came out that Luann hooked up at least one other guy and not just the one she thought Heather was trying to catch her with. The trip wasn't that long, 4 or 5 days, but it's a little concerning that she felt like she had to hook up with 2 or 3 randoms during that time. Is it hormonal? Or is it mental/emotional? The pirate, Tomas, was the one that bothered me most. She clearly didn't want to lose Jacques, but she couldn't keep it in her pants for the duration of the trip. It's fine to want sex, love, and companionship, but Luann seems impulsive and compulsive in her search for it. Her drinking is problematic, but her need for a man is even more problematic. I don't think there is rehab for that. She needs lots of therapy and introspection. 

Her reveal that the Count was casually antisemitic also really bothered me because who decides to build a life with a person who has bias like that you disagree with. It made me wonder what kinds of shit she'd put up with just to be with a man. We know from her strange shifting explanation of what was going on in her marriage that she's willing to put up with a lot of shit to keep a man. Why? She needs therapy.

[WireWrap]

6 minutes ago, NeverLate said:

Well she already has a gig.

 

https://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/luann-de-lesseps-planning-cabaret-show/amp/

 

Good for you Lu!:) 

I believe this was already planned before the PB incident/arrest. Good for her to honor her obligations though, it isn't going to be easy. LOL

6 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Yeah, we've gotten hints from the very first season of who Lu actually is.  Moaner said it outright that she & the Count were "cheating on each other like crazy".  And she said herself that she was going out downtown all the time.  Nights out with the girls?  Ha!  Her kids barely knew who she was cuz she was never around.  Too busy chasing peen.  Rosie (wherever she is now) raised her kids.  If they're decent adults, it's only cuz of Rosie.

I still remember her convo with the icky pirate.  Gave me the creeps.  But it's surely her routine to get the next peen.  After booze rehab, Lu, get to peen rehab.

Well, Luann finally admitted (this past season or last) that she and the Count were actually separated before she joined the show, which is the time frame that Ramona is referring to. So, technically, it could be seen as not cheating as they were separated.

That said, I do think she was an absentee parent as was the Count. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by WireWrap

[Chicklet]

Seriously, a cabaret act? She can't sing, haven't seen any dancing talent and it's shades of Sonya. I'm sure people will buy tickets to see the train wreck.

[film noire]

14 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Her reveal that the Count was casually antisemitic also really bothered me because who decides to build a life with a person who has bias like that you disagree with. 

Somehow I had missed that awful fact until a few months ago and goddamn, it really is an ugly thing for her to have done -- to me, that's worse than this drunken escapade -- to marry and have children with an anti-semite? WTF? 

Edited January 1, 2018 by film noire

[gundysgirl]

20 minutes ago, film noire said:

Somehow I had missed that awful fact until a few months ago and goddamn, it really is an ugly thing for her to have done -- to me, that's worse than this drunken escapade -- to marry and have children with an anti-semite? WTF? 

What was almost as bad, in my humble opinion, was the way she just threw it out there like it was no big thing - openly not liking Jews. She was moving onto something else when Andy stopped her and questioned about it. Her defense of the Count was that he was French. Which means she is dumb as well. My mother says the same thing about our racist family members: "well, they grew up in the south". As if this is some sort of acceptable reason to be racist and we shouldn't judge. 

1 hour ago, Wendy said:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/26/real-housewives-countess_n_121372.html 

Then, LuAnn, who was there with her husband, Alexandre Count de Lesseps, seemed overwhelmed with affection for her fellow guests. “She was trying to make out with women and married men,” the source said. “A pregnant wife caught her in the act, stormed off and walked home in disgust.”

Alexandre “tried to make her leave and was seen throwing her to the ground in the parking lot,” our spy continued.

“She wasn’t just kissing the married men, she was also grabbing their [crotches],” another witness told The Post’s Braden Keil, adding that one male victim was the escort of one of her TV co-stars.

 

Oh yes, Luann's wild behavior is very well documented, she has zero respect for other people's feelings, she has gotten along with this behavior for a very long time. When Luann wants someone, she will get him/her hell or high water. That might be the reason why this has affected her so badly, Tom is the same version of herself. 

Had never read this before. Wow, just wow. The same sort of entitled behavior. Grabbing just anyone that she wanted, and the Count trying to get her to leave and her refusing to do so. I guess so drunk out of her mind that she had no thought for the other guests or the bride and groom. Or perhaps she just didn't care. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by gundysgirl

[quaintirene]

3 hours ago, film noire said:

  Quote

.  "Divorced, sober and ready to . . . . " 

‘Find out who my real friends are...’