Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

Did she publicly state that she wanted out, or is everyone just making assumptions? I ask because I was very aware that Chris and Robert were out after this, but I didn't read anything about Scarlet until this forum. 

No. I think people are making that assumption because her original contract is supposed to be up. She seems to be pretty vague when she talks about her future with Marvel. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Now after about a day I am starting to wonder little things. Like when the snapped people came back did they come back in the same place? What about the people who got dusted on a plane, did they come back in mid air.

Also it seems hilarious that the only way to control the stones is to snap fingers, when the stones were formed at the start of the universe, long before there was anything with fingers. Even now does this mean say Meik who doesn't even have fingers couldn't wield the stones.

[Taryn74]

On 5/8/2019 at 12:52 PM, VCRTracking said:

All the Avengers were willing to make the sacrifice to undo the Snap. Clint volunteered for the test run, Bruce and Thor wanted to use the Infinity Gauntlet even though it might kill them. Tony thought there was a good chance he'd never come back from the Time Heist and recorded that and later made the ultimate sacrifice.

Plenty of thinkpieces out there on why killing Natasha was a bad decision but I agree with this argument it was an Black Widow's act of heroism.

Beautiful piece, which expresses very well how I feel and couldn't really articulate.  I mean, isn't the whole idea of gender equality about a woman having the same right to make a decision for herself that a man does?  Natasha chose to sacrifice herself, period, and it was a hero's choice, period.

[Fukui San]

13 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

Beautiful piece, which expresses very well how I feel and couldn't really articulate.  I mean, isn't the whole idea of gender equality about a woman having the same right to make a decision for herself that a man does?  Natasha chose to sacrifice herself, period, and it was a hero's choice, period.

I’m not mad at Natasha the character’s decision to try and sacrifice herself for the greater good. I’m mad at the writer’s choice in letting her “win” the battle to sacrifice herself as she is a much much better character than Clint and has more potential for future stories. Even with ScarJo reportedly wanting out, I would rather recast the role upon reflection, than lose the character of Black Widow. Jeremy Renner could do a young Hawkeye prequel TV series while Black Widow’s movie could be present day. 

Lets fridge a male character for a change to further a female hero’s character arc. Hawkeye’s character arc would have been at a good end in sacrificing his compromised self to bring back his family. Natasha’s sacrifice just didn’t work thematically for me since Hawkeye was so much the more logical choice. 

[Bruinsfan]

If the Soul Stone shared my opinion of Renner's Hawkeye, it would have spit him back out had he won the sacrificial victim competition.

[Kromm]

On 5/8/2019 at 10:56 AM, JessePinkman said:

I want to see Old Man Steve mentoring a team of young Avengers. I can see him commanding them from the new Avengers compound, radioing them to stop fucking around. I love the idea of him as grizzled old man and I think Evans would relish playing the part. 

In the comics. the direction they went was putting him in charge of SHIELD.

[Jeebus Cripes]

I want Old Steve to make sporadic cameos in the Falcon & Winter Soldier series and just be a sassy old bastard throwing shade left and right. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Jeebus Cripes

[VCRTracking]

Tom Holland and Cobie Smulders talk about shootin Tony's funeral at 4:55. I had heard this from Kevin Smith on his podcast who heard it from the writers, that nobody was greenscreened in. Everyone you see at the funeral was actually there at the day of filming which blows my mind! All the casts from the various movies including Michelle Pfeiffer and Michael Douglas from Ant-Man and the Wasp. Cobie said Black Panther hadn't even been released yet. Tom thought he was going to a wedding(It's a smart move to not tell him what they're actually filming)!

Edited May 10, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Guest]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

Tom Holland and Cobie Smulders talk about shootin Tony's funeral at 4:55. I had heard this from Kevin Smith on his podcast who heard it from the writers, that nobody was greenscreened in. Everyone you see at the funeral was actually there at the day of filming which blows my mind! All the casts from the various movies including Michelle Pfeiffer and Michael Douglas from Ant-Man and the Wasp. Cobie said Black Panther hadn't even been released yet. Tom thought he was going to a wedding(It's a smart move to not tell him what they're actually filming)!

Gwyneth Paltrow talked about how surreal that moment was at the movie premiere. Sebastian Stan has also said that he was told it was wedding. I’d love to see behind the scenes clips of everyone together.

Speaking of that scene has anyone involved spoken about reasons for where each group was placed.  In particular I wondered about Carol being alone the the steps and Fury alone on the porch. I also thought it was interesting that Wanda was with Bucky and Sam. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Guest

[Jeebus Cripes]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

Sebastian Stan has also said that he was told it was wedding. I’d love to see behind the scenes clips of everyone together.

That's one sad ass wedding they're watching. I can just hear the directors, "I'm gonna need you guys to dial down the happiness a few notches. Tears are good, smiling... not so much."

[Anduin]

I don't like the trend of lying to actors, or blacking out all dialogue that isn't theirs. Actors can't do their jobs properly if they don't know what they're reacting to. Hire actors who can keep a secret, FFS.

[blueray]

I'd imagine the group found out what the scene was on the day of actual filming. They wouldn't have been able to act properly if they didn't know what they were acting too. I'm okay with the cast following the story like the audience (mainly shows/movies such as this or highly serialized like Lost or stranger things).  But I'm sure on the day of filming they have an idea what is happening and obviously know it before the audience actually does.

Edited May 10, 2019 by blueray

[JessePinkman]

3 hours ago, blueray said:

I'd imagine the group found out what the scene was on the day of actual filming. They wouldn't have been able to act properly if they didn't know what they were acting too. I'm okay with the cast following the story like the audience (mainly shows/movies such as this or highly serialized like Lost or stranger things).  But I'm sure on the day of filming they have an idea what is happening and obviously know it before the audience actually does.

That's it exactly. The Russos have talked about that. They let the actors read what their characters are doing but nothing beyond that if it's not necessary. Does Scarlett Johansson need to know that all the departed heroes come back through giant portals? No, Natasha is dead at that point. Does Chadwick Boseman need to know Steve ends up an old man? No, T'Challa's back in Wakanda.

[Dandesun]

7 hours ago, Dani said:

Gwyneth Paltrow talked about how surreal that moment was at the movie premiere. Sebastian Stan has also said that he was told it was wedding. I’d love to see behind the scenes clips of everyone together.

Speaking of that scene has anyone involved spoken about reasons for where each group was placed.  In particular I wondered about Carol being alone the the steps and Fury alone on the porch. I also thought it was interesting that Wanda was with Bucky and Sam. 

6 hours ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

That's one sad ass wedding they're watching. I can just hear the directors, "I'm gonna need you guys to dial down the happiness a few notches. Tears are good, smiling... not so much."

So... everyone was dressed in black... scattered about a hillside looking somber as fuck. But, yeah, sure... it's a wedding.

I think I'm going to need to see the outtakes for this... where everyone is doing the Electric Slide in brightly colored outfits and there's a disco ball. 

But, yeah, sure... it's a wedding. A morose, unhappy wedding. I want to know who they all thought was getting married. And why they were all so miserable about it.

[Wynterwolf]

57 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

But, yeah, sure... it's a wedding. A morose, unhappy wedding. I want to know who they all thought was getting married. And why they were all so miserable about it.

I suspect they are all trying desperately to cling to 'plausible deniability'.  🤣

[VCRTracking]

This person tweeted a long thread about this days ago and she wrote an article about her feelings.

I disagree with this  because I don't think the Russos and Markus and McFeely thought Natasha was sacrificing herself just because she was childless and Clint had a family. Maybe that's how Joss looked at Natasha but not the people who wrote and directed her in Winter Soldier and Civil War.  She was sacrificing herself to save the world. The Avengers' failure weighed on her where she barely to go through the motions. Clint and Natasha both loved each other and didn't want to see the other one die. Saying she was doing it because Clint had a family and that's misogynistic but this happens in are cop movies and war movies with men where the guy without a family is willing to sacrifice himself and risk his life instead of the one who does. The unmarried partner is always expendable. Natasha going out on her own terms is preferable to me than seeing a crying, guilt-ridden Natasha telling Clint's family what happened to their dad. That he sacrificed his life for hers. The writer's also very harsh on Clint, even though he thought Natasha's life had as much value as his even though he's the one with the family.

[AES13]

I wish I could go back and time and tell Joss Whedon of the terrible mistake he's going to make in Age of Ultron, in the wording of this piece of dialogue.  I don't believe it was ever his intention to conflate sterility and monsterhood; Natasha was listing the qualities that would make her a terrible partner in her eyes (having killed a lot of people (monster), not able to have children (sterile)).  I find it disingenuous of people to claim that he meant it to be cause and effect - I can't have children which makes me a monster, so that whole discussion is a complete waste of time, IMO.  I'm sad that they killed her off because I like the character and  sap that I am, I want her to be happy.  She didn't get to experience a lot of happiness and in contrast to Tony, her death did not feel organic to me.   I'd like to believe that she comes back in some way because the idea of watching a Black Widow movie, knowing how it ultimately turns out, does not excite me.  

[VCRTracking]

11 minutes ago, AES13 said:

I wish I could go back and time and tell Joss Whedon of the terrible mistake he's going to make in Age of Ultron, in the wording of this piece of dialogue.  I don't believe it was ever his intention to conflate sterility and monsterhood; Natasha was listing the qualities that would make her a terrible partner in her eyes (having killed a lot of people (monster), not able to have children (sterile)).  I find it disingenuous of people to claim that he meant it to be cause and effect - I can't have children which makes me a monster, so that whole discussion is a complete waste of time, IMO.  I'm sad that they killed her off because I like the character and  sap that I am, I want her to be happy.  She didn't get to experience a lot of happiness and in contrast to Tony, her death did not feel organic to me.   I'd like to believe that she comes back in some way because the idea of watching a Black Widow movie, knowing how it ultimately turns out, does not excite me.  

I also think Bruce was trying to convince her they wouldn't work romantically "I can't give you children and a family" and Natasha was like "It's okay neither can I, so there's no problem!" Unfortunately it hit a painful subject with women who are infertile or decided they don't want children who felt they were being attacked.

In my mind Natasha spent all their missions together watching Clint's back making sure he came home to his family and was always willing to take the bullet for him. It unintentionally makes Clint the bigger person for doing the same for this unmarried ex-killer who can't have kids.

Edited May 10, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Wynterwolf]

The author’s intent is only one perspective once they choose to release it into the wild.  I think you can separate out Joss’s unfortunate dialog and still see how hetero-normative bias still very strongly appears to have played a part in why Nat died instead of Clint (especially when viewed within the context of the choices they made for the rest of the movie).  They chose to value Clint's nuclear family over Nat's found-family. Clint is the one who chose to become a serial killer, but in the end, he paid no narrative price for that.

Here's another pov on Clint's storyline.  

[VCRTracking]

20 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

The author’s intent is only one perspective once they choose to release it into the wild.  I think you can separate out Joss’s unfortunate dialog and still see how hetero-normative bias still very strongly appears to have played a part in why Nat died instead of Clint (especially when viewed within the context of the choices they made for the rest of the movie).  They chose to value Clint's nuclear family over Nat's found-family. Clint is the one who chose to become a serial killer, but in the end, he paid no narrative price for that.

Here's another pov on Clint's storyline.  

The writers said they thought about having Thor going on a revenge spree, but he had done that already in Infinity War so they gave it to Clint.

The article assumes Clint has only been targeting POC when it's  been five years and Clint has just worked his way to Mexico and Japan. I'm thinking he spent a lot of time in the states killing criminals of ever race. The fact that the other Avengers including Natasha don't want to bring him indicates there were no innocent civilians harmed.

The article criticizes movies with one white hero kills dozens of POCs might be valid but it forgets who American studios were imitating and inspired by. The scene where one man slaughters or beats up hordes of redshirts comes from martial arts and samurai movies from Asia. Zatoichi disposes of multiple people in under a minute and the body count of John Woo movies are in the dozens.

Edited May 10, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Wynterwolf]

5 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I'm thinking he spent a lot of time in the states killing criminals of ever race.

You absolutely can assume that.  But they didn't show us that.  This is more about what they chose to show us.  And he was still a serial killer vigilante, regardless of who he killed. 

6 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

The fact that the other Avengers including Natasha don't want to bring him indicates there were no innocent civilians harmed.

That's also an assumption, not a narrative fact.  They also may not have had the resources to go spend time trying to find him while he hopped continents, since it seemed like they had their hands full with what they were already dealing with.  

[Guest]

9 hours ago, blueray said:

I'd imagine the group found out what the scene was on the day of actual filming. They wouldn't have been able to act properly if they didn't know what they were acting too. I'm okay with the cast following the story like the audience (mainly shows/movies such as this or highly serialized like Lost or stranger things).  But I'm sure on the day of filming they have an idea what is happening and obviously know it before the audience actually does.

Exactly this. The Russo’s have said calling it a wedding was just to keep it from leaking and the cast was told in person when they showed up for filming. 

1 hour ago, AES13 said:

I wish I could go back and time and tell Joss Whedon of the terrible mistake he's going to make in Age of Ultron, in the wording of this piece of dialogue.  I don't believe it was ever his intention to conflate sterility and monsterhood; Natasha was listing the qualities that would make her a terrible partner in her eyes (having killed a lot of people (monster), not able to have children (sterile)).  I find it disingenuous of people to claim that he meant it to be cause and effect - I can't have children which makes me a monster, so that whole discussion is a complete waste of time, IMO.  I'm sad that they killed her off because I like the character and  sap that I am, I want her to be happy.  She didn't get to experience a lot of happiness and in contrast to Tony, her death did not feel organic to me.   I'd like to believe that she comes back in some way because the idea of watching a Black Widow movie, knowing how it ultimately turns out, does not excite me.  

I agree. There was so much more to Natasha’s story in Ultron and Endgame then those two lines. I think there are big flaws in the way she is handled in both movies but I find it unfair that her entire arc is boiled down to one line.

Ultimately my biggest problem is that both Clint and Natasha were handled poorly. I knew going in the Nat would die getting the soul stone so it really stood out to me how little she was on screen during the time heist. In the 40 minutes before she arrives on Vormir she got maybe a minute of screen time. Less than 10 minutes later she was dead.

This was essentially a goodbye to half of the original avengers. The entire movie felt like it was leading up to Cap and Tony’s goodbye but Nat’s death felt like a plot point they needed to get through. She deserved better. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Guest

[VCRTracking]

14 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

You absolutely can assume that.  But they didn't show us that.  This is more about what they chose to show us.  And he was still a serial killer vigilante, regardless of who he killed. 

The real reason he was shown in Japan though was he took the name "Ronin" and is dressed like a ninja and using a katana sword so it would be weird to first show him in Cleveland or Albuquerque! The history of Ronin in the comics Wikipedia:
 

Quote

Maya Lopez was the first person to take on the Ronin identity. A deaf woman with photographic reflexes, Maya became Ronin to investigate the Silver Samurai in Wakanda. She first appeared as Ronin in New Avengers #11 (November 2005), though the character appeared on the covers of several earlier issues.

New Avengers writer Brian Michael Bendis stated that his original intention was to make Matt Murdock as the true identity of Ronin, but could not do so due to a conflict with the plans for the character in the Daredevil comic book title.[1]

Clint Barton

Clint Barton is the second person to have the Ronin identity, becoming Ronin when he rejoined the New Avengers in the aftermath of Civil War.[2] He attempted to hand the costume back to Lopez after the latter was rescued from the Hand, but Lopez declined and allowed him to keep it. Barton later resumed his Hawkeye identity during the Heroic Age.

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, VCRTracking said:

The history of Ronin

Yes, I have been aware of who Ronin was since the set pics leaked of JR in the Ronin get up, however long ago that was.  They never named him as Ronin, it was kinda more like an easter egg, and I think for the people who would recognize that's who he was, they would have known him from the outfit even if he had shown up in Peoria.  

I get trying to rationalize 'canon' to something that feels more narratively appealing.  I'm still working on ways that Steve did not abandon his "semi-stable" best friend.  It's basically what Fanfic was invented to help with when the text lets you down.  

[VCRTracking]

4 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Yes, I have been aware of who Ronin was since the set pics leaked of JR in the Ronin get up, however long ago that was.  They never named him as Ronin, it was kinda more like an easter egg, and I think for the people who would recognize that's who he was, they would have known him from the outfit even if he had shown up in Peoria.  

Yeah but it was cooler to see him in a katana fight with a Yakuza just because samurai sword fights are cooler.

[Wynterwolf]

6 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Yeah but it was cooler to see him in a katana fight with a Yakuza just because samurai sword fights are cooler.

I'm glad you liked it!    

[VCRTracking]

Clint also had a death wish. Mexican cartels and the Yakuza are not pushovers. You go against them, no matter how good you are you expect the chances of surviving to be very small especialy when they have guns and you're just armed with a sword.

Edited May 10, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Lugal]

30 minutes ago, Dani said:

Exactly this. The Russo’s have said calling it a wedding was just to keep it from leaking and the cast was told in person when they showed up for filming.

That's what I would assume too, plus when they're told no wedding, it's Tony Stark's funeral, the shock and sadness on film could be real.

[anna0852]

50 minutes ago, Lugal said:

That's what I would assume too, plus when they're told no wedding, it's Tony Stark's funeral, the shock and sadness on film could be real.

Assuming RDJ isn't making faces at them from just out of camera range 😁

[Bruinsfan]

8 hours ago, Dandesun said:

But, yeah, sure... it's a wedding. A morose, unhappy wedding. I want to know who they all thought was getting married. And why they were all so miserable about it.

Natasha and Bruce?

[Jeebus Cripes]

9 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Yeah but it was cooler to see him in a katana fight with a Yakuza just because samurai sword fights are cooler.

Speaking of, what a waste of Hiroyuki Sanada's talent as an actor. Kind of like how Richard Armitage was wasted in Captain America. 

[Danny Franks]

15 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

I get trying to rationalize 'canon' to something that feels more narratively appealing.  I'm still working on ways that Steve did not abandon his "semi-stable" best friend.  It's basically what Fanfic was invented to help with when the text lets you down.  

Abandon him? Bucky is an adult and I very much doubt he wants Steve babying him for the rest of their lives. Yes, he's had a rough time readjusting, but he never wanted to burden Steve with the responsibility of 'fixing' him. That's what a lot of Civil War was about.

Now, he's had what seems to be a fair amount of time in Wakanda to readjust and find some peace and quiet. He seems to have prospective friendships with Shuri, Sam and probably the rest of the Avengers. He's going to be okay, and I'm sure that he told Steve that, in any off-screen conversations they had.

19 hours ago, Dandesun said:

So... everyone was dressed in black... scattered about a hillside looking somber as fuck. But, yeah, sure... it's a wedding.

I think I'm going to need to see the outtakes for this... where everyone is doing the Electric Slide in brightly colored outfits and there's a disco ball. 

But, yeah, sure... it's a wedding. A morose, unhappy wedding. I want to know who they all thought was getting married. And why they were all so miserable about it.

I mean, I think they probably figured out that it wasn't a wedding when they got to the location. But I don't think male actors being told 'put on this suit, you've got a wedding scene to shoot' is going to baffle too many people.

It seems like all the actors were just given partial scripts, and were probably way too busy to think too deeply about the overarching plot of the movie. And they're all very used to the secrecy of everything by now.

11 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Natasha and Bruce?

Well that would certainly explain why everyone was so miserable.

[starri]

26 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

It seems like all the actors were just given partial scripts, and were probably way too busy to think too deeply about the overarching plot of the movie. And they're all very used to the secrecy of everything by now.

RDJ was the only person who saw the entire thing.  Although it probably would have been funny if they'd given it to everyone but Mark Ruffalo and Tom Holland.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 5/10/2019 at 4:36 AM, Dani said:

I also thought it was interesting that Wanda was with Bucky and Sam. 

Speaking of Wanda at the end, I totally misread her last scene with Clint by the lake. When he was talking about Natasha and she said something about how we miss them both, I totally thought she was talking about Pietro. But upon further reading it appears she was talking about Vision.

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Speaking of Wanda at the end, I totally misread her last scene with Clint by the lake. When he was talking about Natasha and she said something about how we miss them both, I totally thought she was talking about Pietro. But upon further reading it appears she was talking about Vision.

Yes she was talking about Vision. Of course I don’t doubt she misses her brother, but he’s been dead several years and did die a hero’s death. Vision was her lover murdered by Thanos for the stone. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes she was talking about Vision. Of course I don’t doubt she misses her brother, but he’s been dead several years and did die a hero’s death. Vision was her lover murdered by Thanos for the stone. 

Plus Vision, like Natasha, sacrificed himself to stop Thanos. That was a nice moment linking Clint and Wanda together since they are the only ones who could possibly understand what the other was feeling. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Guest

[VCRTracking]

‘Avengers: Endgame’s’ Karen Gillan tells all about Nebula’s surprising redemption (and Marvel future)

[Kromm]

On 5/10/2019 at 2:33 PM, VCRTracking said:

This person tweeted a long thread about this days ago and she wrote an article about her feelings.

I disagree with this  because I don't think the Russos and Markus and McFeely thought Natasha was sacrificing herself just because she was childless and Clint had a family. Maybe that's how Joss looked at Natasha but not the people who wrote and directed her in Winter Soldier and Civil War.  She was sacrificing herself to save the world. The Avengers' failure weighed on her where she barely to go through the motions. Clint and Natasha both loved each other and didn't want to see the other one die. Saying she was doing it because Clint had a family and that's misogynistic but this happens in are cop movies and war movies with men where the guy without a family is willing to sacrifice himself and risk his life instead of the one who does. The unmarried partner is always expendable. Natasha going out on her own terms is preferable to me than seeing a crying, guilt-ridden Natasha telling Clint's family what happened to their dad. That he sacrificed his life for hers. The writer's also very harsh on Clint, even though he thought Natasha's life had as much value as his even though he's the one with the family.

I read another piece with this same premise (I wish I had the link) which pointed out that in their opinion what made it even worse is that on top of Natasha basically being fridged for a man, she was fridged for a serial killer.  

I had a knee-jerk reaction against it for a second, but then after thinking about it realized that that part of it at least WAS right. Any subtlety which might have existed for Ronin in the comics had to be taken out for the format this was in and so all we really got was a mass murderer.  Yes, we could argue all day about if he targets "deserved" it, but that doesn't change what he was. And unlike Bucky (another killer) he didn't have the excuse of being mind controlled.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Kromm said:

I read another piece with this same premise (I wish I had the link) which pointed out that in their opinion what made it even worse is that on top of Natasha basically being fridged for a man, she was fridged for a serial killer.  

I had a knee-jerk reaction against it for a second, but then after thinking about it realized that that part of it at least WAS right. Any subtlety which might have existed for Ronin in the comics had to be taken out for the format this was in and so all we really got was a mass murderer.  Yes, we could argue all day about if he targets "deserved" it, but that doesn't change what he was. And unlike Bucky (another killer) he didn't have the excuse of being mind controlled.

Very true. I’ve been far more focused on Natasha but Clint’s arc here was also horrible. They very deliberately showed that he was nearly irredeemable. Rhodey saw what he did in Mexico and felt he was too far gone. We see him killing indiscriminately in Japan but then he see’s his family again so it’s all good now. Let’s make jokes about Budapest. WTF!

Somehow the Russo’s managed to kill my interest in both the Black Widow movie and the Hawkeye series. That takes talent. 

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

Very true. I’ve been far more focused on Natasha but Clint’s arc here was also horrible. They very deliberately showed that he was nearly irredeemable. Rhodey saw what he did in Mexico and felt he was too far gone. We see him killing indiscriminately in Japan but then he see’s his family again so it’s all good now. Let’s make jokes about Budapest. WTF!

Somehow the Russo’s managed to kill my interest in both the Black Widow movie and the Hawkeye series. That takes talent. 

I think the idea Natasha should have thought Clint was now irredeemable and deserved to die is cold considering Clint did not feel that way about her. She also did horrible things but spared her life. Yeah it's cliche valuing Clint's life because he's a husband and father but wouldn't that make Clint a saint for valuing the life of a childless ex-assassin as much as his? Even more so since their relationship was platonic?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

I think the idea Natasha should have thought Clint was now irredeemable and deserved to die is cold considering Clint did not feel that way about her. She also did horrible things but spared her life. Yeah it's cliche valuing Clint's life because he's a husband and father but wouldn't that make Clint a saint for valuing the life of a childless ex-assassin as much as his? Even more so since their relationship was platonic?

Huh? That’s not what I said at all. I have no problem with Natasha or Clint’s actions on Vormir. I have a problem with the choices the writers and directors made.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just got home from watching this. I’ve been totally unspoiled, staying out of this thread and not watching any trailers or sneak peeks.

I’ll go back and read everyone else’s comments tomorrow.

Noooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was my mind screaming at Tony’s sacrifice. Along with me 😭😭😭😭😭and blinking furiously in the faintest of hopes he’d survive. Tom Holland broke my heart. I was still hoping for a miracle.

Why didn’t Hawkeye and Natasha just push Red Skull to get the Stone? What? He doesn’t have a soul? Don’t anyone try and explain logic to me!

I knew Steve would somehow end up getting his Happy Ever After with Peggy. I’m of two hearts on this: because he SO deserves happiness, but we lost Captain America! Well, Chris Evans’ one anyway. If someone would have told me 10 years ago that I would fall in love with Chris Evans as Steve/Captain America, I would have laughed in their face. Not that guy who played the shallow asshole Human Torch in Fantastic Four!

But there were SO MANY moments that had me 😂😂😂😂😂 and of course they all involved Hulk and Thor. My GOD! I thought the meme of an overweight drunkard Thor was a fake meme! His moments with his mom also had me tearing up. And I know this is Unpopular, but I wanted a reunion with Loki. But he’s ALIVE!!!! 

Steve’s whispered “Hail Hydra” had me 😆😆😆 in the elevator in 2012. As did Hulk’s grumbling having to walk down the stairs.

And the women-ALL OF THEM, were so FUCKING BADASS! Captain Marvel should have been allowed to kill Thanos’ ass. But nope. The combined effort of Wanda and Carol should have finished him!

But I did cheer when Mjolnir went to Steve and he was able to pummel Thanos for a wee bit.

I think, the best moment was when ALL our heroes showed up to beat Thanos and his minions! Those golden lights! 

And just call me childish, but I don’t understand why any of our heroes had to die. Nopenopenope. Won’t evereverever accept that.

And really, Tom Holland’s preview about the new Spidey movie preview airing at the end did spoil the movie a wee bit! 

And I’m bummed we didn’t get a mid or post credit scene.

I’m TOTALLY going to see it again in standard screen.

[Danny Franks]

6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And the women-ALL OF THEM, were so FUCKING BADASS! Captain Marvel should have been allowed to kill Thanos’ ass. But nope. The combined effort of Wanda and Carol should have finished him!

What I really liked about Carol vs. Thanos was, they made it clear she was stronger than him. She stopped him from snapping his fingers, she completely no-sold his head-butt. And then, with one arm, she forced him to his knees and started bending his fingers back like she was going to break them.

It was only Thanos' desperate idea of punching her with an Infinity Stone that saved him. 

I guess Thanos must have known who she was, because Carol has been active in the universe since the mid-90s. No wonder his jaw dropped when she showed up and destroyed his ship.

And that was after Wanda scared the bejeesus out of him. I think she had him too, until his equally desperate move to have his ship shoot everyone.

[Raja]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Why didn’t Hawkeye and Natasha just push Red Skull to get the Stone? What? He doesn’t have a soul? Don’t anyone try and explain logic to me!

I

from Infinity War when Thanos sacrificed Gamora it wasn't just any soul but the scene was put in to prove that he actually loved her. So just bringing along a sacrificial lamb would be useless it had to be something that actually cost you.

Thus the Russos had to put the Avengers which actually loved each other there. Either dad or Auntie Natalie wouldn't live to see the kids again. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Raja

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

It was only Thanos' desperate idea of punching her with an Infinity Stone that saved him. 

I believe it was the purple one too, which was the space stone, aka the tesseract aka the source of Captain Marvel's powers. So that was a nice touch.

[nilyank]

11 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I believe it was the purple one too, which was the space stone, aka the tesseract aka the source of Captain Marvel's powers. So that was a nice touch.

Thanos used the purple stone which is the Power Stone and was first introduced in the Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Kel Varnsen]

5 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Thanos used the purple stone which is the Power Stone and was first introduced in the Guardians of the Galaxy.

In retrospect I believe you are right, which now makes my theory not as interesting.

[Danny Franks]

Using the Power Stone makes sense because, inasmuch as the powers of the Stones are explained, the Power one was used by Ronan as a kind of force weapon.

I am intrigued by the thought of what happens if someone who received their powers from a Stone then goes up against that Stone - Carol was given powers by the Space Stone, and Wanda by the Mind Stone (I think?). So can their powers be subordinated by those Stones? I guess we'll never know now, but it's interesting.

Also, it seems odd that Wanda isn't powered by the Reality Stone, given her powers (which again, are rather ill-defined in the movies). In the comics she was originally able to cast hexes that might cause people to fall over, and ended up being able completely rewrite reality and create her own universe.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Danny Franks

[Bruinsfan]

Wanda's powers make more sense to me as coming from the Mind Stone, since she appears to be using telepathy and telekinesis for her feats. Though how that works for Quicksilver's speed, I haven't a clue.

Carol's are... odd to be paired with the Tesseract/Space Stone, but then both it and the Mind Stone have been shown to generate energy bolts and such, so maybe that's a common feature of all the stones and it's just the Power Stone that can do it on a planetary or greater scale.

[VCRTracking]