S13.E12 Will Returns to China

[bichonblitz]

2 hours ago, alegtostandon said:

I am sure India is on the schedule for next season 

A trip for 10, no doubt.

[TwirlyGirly]

16 minutes ago, JerseyGirl said:

The flights seemed strange too.  His one parents (I forget which one) was flying out of Newark and flew to Dulles.  So The Florida crew flew from Orlando to Dulles, then to Beijing?  It made no sense.  Why didn't they fly to Orlando, then everyone go to Beijing from Orlando?  Or fly to the west coast, meet up, and fly to Beijing.  Why they had to do a separate trip north to Dulles made no sense.  If they had to do that, why not fly to Newark and then all fly out from there. 

22 year veteran of major commercial airline here:

 

I think there are multiple reasons why they took that route, as opposed to either of your suggestions.

 

First, by departing from IAD for PEK, they were able to fly nonstop for their transpacific flight (which would be easier on Will and Zoey). Many of the flights from EWR and MCO to PEK require a stop or change of planes somewhere on the West Coast. 

 

Also, you have 10 passengers plus the film crew traveling together, so that's roughly 13 tickets (or more) in all. It's much more difficult to find that many tickets available on a flight that stops or one that requires a change of planes because passengers will be picked up in the stop or connecting city. So availability may have played a part in choosing that route.

 

In addition, the family probably wanted to be able to be seated together, as much as possible, on the 18 hour transpacific flight. That's a heck of a long time to be in the air,  trying to keep two high-energy children occupied. By seating all of the family together as much as possible, the chances of the kids constantly running up and down the aisles and potentially climbing over other passengers to get to the family member they want to spend time with would be minimized.

[sATL]

55 minutes ago, JerseyGirl said:

The flights seemed strange too.  His one parents (I forget which one) was flying out of Newark and flew to Dulles.  So The Florida crew flew from Orlando to Dulles, then to Beijing?  It made no sense.  Why didn't they fly to Orlando, then everyone go to Beijing from Orlando?  Or fly to the west coast, meet up, and fly to Beijing.  Why they had to do a separate trip north to Dulles made no sense.  If they had to do that, why not fly to Newark and then all fly out from there. 

I was going to guess everyone wanted 1st class...

[humbleopinion]

The China trip has been on the storyboard for years and finally decided on for this season...while the grandparents could accompany the Kleins.

 NaiNai made a poignant point...that the Arnolds couldn't afford to take grand vacations...time off from school  and disposable income was for any necessary surgeries or specialists visits.

Am sure it was the same for Bill's family.

It isn't lost on both families the significance of Jen and Bill being parents to 2 children that would have had totally different lives if they hadn't been adopted and brought into their lives.

 Bill's Dad was overcome with sentiment and redeemed himself a bit....

[flyingdi]

Is Jen's "dad" her actual dad or her stepdad?  Hasn't her mother been married more than once?  I am just not clear on that.

[readheaded]

4 minutes ago, flyingdi said:

Is Jen's "dad" her actual dad or her stepdad?  Hasn't her mother been married more than once?  I am just not clear on that.

Those are Jen’s bio parents.  They divorced briefly and remarried. 

[flyingdi]

Thank you, redheaded!

[readheaded]

1 minute ago, flyingdi said:

Thank you, redheaded!

You’re welcome!  I was confused about that, too.  Jen touches on it in their book.  😊

[sATL]

deleted. sorry

Edited December 5, 2018 by sATL

[TwirlyGirly]

18 hours ago, BitterApple said:

<snip>

Bill's dad getting emotional was nice, although I eye-rolled him insisting the tour guide was wrong with regards to when the Forbidden City was built. I'd imagine the woman is pretty accurate with history considering she's, you know, a tour guide. <snip>

 

And even more rude his comment "[They] should get another tour guide"....and Bill laughed.

IDK where Grandpa got his information the Forbidden City was built 2000 years ago; according to Wikipedia, it was built between 1406 - 1420 AD.

Either Grandpa sucks at math, or he's one of those people who is so certain what he knows is correct, he never bothers to check with a reliable source to verify before claiming others who may state otherwise are wrong.

Added in edit:

Just noticed something else. While in the van driving to The Great Wall, one of the grandma's asked "How far is it, the whole thing?"

Grandpa replied "1400 miles." Grandma responded "1400 miles?" to which Grandpa nodded.

Wrong again.

According to Wikipedia, the wall is 13,171 miles long - so Grandpa was off by almost 12,000 miles.

I really hope neither Will nor Zoey ever ask Grandpa for help with their homework...

Edited December 5, 2018 by TwirlyGirly
Remembered another incidence of Grandpa not knowing what he's talking about in the same episode.

[BitterApple]

21 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

And even more rude his comment "[They] should get another tour guide"....and Bill laughed.

IDK where Grandpa got his information the Forbidden City was built 2000 years ago; according to Wikipedia, it was built between 1406 - 1420 AD.

Either Grandpa sucks at math, or he's one of those people who is so certain what he knows is correct, he never bothers to check with a reliable source to verify before claiming others who may state otherwise are wrong.

Wow, that's incredibly rude. We already get so much flak for being "ugly Americans" when we travel overseas, there's no need to add to the stereotype.

Ditto for Jen's comment about the kids ending up in the hospital. That was unnecessary, especially considering Chef Chao had already told her the dumpling filling was cooked. 

[Spike]

26 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

And even more rude his comment "[They] should get another tour guide"....and Bill laughed.

IDK where Grandpa got his information the Forbidden City was built 2000 years ago; according to Wikipedia, it was built between 1406 - 1420 AD.

Either Grandpa sucks at math, or he's one of those people who is so certain what he knows is correct, he never bothers to check with a reliable source to verify before claiming others who may state otherwise are wrong.

Tour guide should have told him the walrus mustache has been out since President Taft.

[TwirlyGirly]

9 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

<snip>

Ditto for Jen's comment about the kids ending up in the hospital. That was unnecessary, especially considering Chef Chao had already told her the dumpling filling was cooked. 

IMO, one of the adults, upon seeing the children touch the food and then putting the food/their fingers in their mouth, should have immediately dragged the child[ren] to the sink, insisted they wash their hands, and told them in no uncertain terms "If you touch the food and put your fingers in your mouth again, you will not be allowed to continue to help making the dumplings anymore. Understood?" And then followed through if they did it again.

Damn. I wasn't allowed to help with any food prep in the kitchen until my mother knew that I knew certain behaviors were unacceptable, such as that, or licking a utensil and putting it back in the bowl, etc..

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Agree!  Jen couldn’t have been more insulting nor could Spike (Bill’s Dad)!  Jen’s OCD was on full display in that scene! And Spike can take a hike off a short pier, what an ass he was...I also agree he was crying because of his guilt about how he treated Bill’s Mom and Bill...crocodile tears in my opinion!  And Wifey sure likes to put herself into the limelight doesn’t she!  Bill’s Mom and stepdad couldn’t have taken a higher road if they tried to, lovely people and a lovely couple.  Jen must have been overwrought not having her parents there for support, everyone else was Bill’s family!  LOL. Maybe that made her nervous enough to speak with her inner voice about the dumpling filling!  

I thought Will was well behaved and poor Zoey took the worst of the trip with jet lag but as someone has already correctly pointed out that didn’t stop Jen from dressing her up while sleeping FOR THE SHOW!  

I am not a Jen fan and she showed her true self in this episode, same with Bill, yuk it off Bill about your Dad’s insulting comments to the tour guide and taking over the rickshaw....Bill has no spine especially on camera...again FOR THE SHOW!

[sATL]

RE: Will playing with the chef's food prep...and back to double dipping which was last year... I do wonder now if he's modeling (copying) seen behavior... no one seems to be stopping or correcting it... as if "this is how we do it".... hmmm...

Edited December 5, 2018 by sATL

[Absolom]

Ratings:  1.413 M viewers and a .30 rating.  Ninth cable show of the day.

[walnutqueen]

I really enjoyed this episode.  It was the trip of a lifetime for all the grandparents, and it was nice to see them all getting along in a big blended family fashion.  Will was so enthusiastic and curious about everything he was seeing and experiencing - he has such an exuberant and open spirit.  The jet lag hit little Zoey hard - but she's cute even when she's sleepy.  Her loud snoring cracked me up!  I think this was a great experience for the whole family, and I'm sure Will won't forget it.

[viewer]

Wow, Grandpa Klein really gets on my last nerve.  Bill's mom sure improved with husband number 2!  Bill's mom and step dad are lovely people.  I wondered if Jennifer's mom was simply sick of creepy father-in-law.  They sure try to upstage Judy and Dave.  Can't be done those kids love Jennifer's parents a lot.

[Libby]

7 hours ago, flyingdi said:

Is Jen's "dad" her actual dad or her stepdad?  Hasn't her mother been married more than once?  I am just not clear on that.

Jen's parents divorced and then remarried some time later.

In my opinion, Jen's dad wasn't husband of the year either.

Here's a quote of Jen's from their book. Make of it what you will. I know what I think...

"To complicate matters, not long after the divorce, my father got remarried to his longtime secretary"

Some years later, Dave got cancer, divorced the secretary and went back to Judy. I didn't bother to quote that part from the book.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Libby

[sATL]

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

Ratings:  1.413 M viewers and a .30 rating.  Ninth cable show of the day.

wow.. of all of the shows that came on all day Tuesday - the episode was #9.. beating epsn, cnn, food network, hgtv... ( link ) .. I guess TLC has found a show to help to climb its way back to the top financially w/o the Duggars. Now I need to pay more attention to the commercials that come on during the show.

[WillowG]

Could they slow Jen's voice down a little??  I mean for us in the know that means going from spinning her from 45 to 33 RPM.  That speech seems to get less audible every week and China epi gots her spinning at 78!   Already have to work to keep the show from being annoying and once ya get there they add squeaky speech. >: [

[DkNNy79]

11 hours ago, Libby said:

Jen's parents divorced and then remarried some time later.

In my opinion, Jen's dad wasn't husband of the year either.

Here's a quote of Jen's from their book. Make of it what you will. I know what I think...

"To complicate matters, not long after the divorce, my father got remarried to his longtime secretary"

Some years later, Dave got cancer, divorced the secretary and went back to Judy. I didn't bother to quote that part from the book.

Wow, didn't know this.  I wonder if the dads couldn't take the stress of having a little person as a child?  Or they were just shitty people? 

[JerseyGirl]

20 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

22 year veteran of major commercial airline here:

 

I think there are multiple reasons why they took that route, as opposed to either of your suggestions.

 

First, by departing from IAD for PEK, they were able to fly nonstop for their transpacific flight (which would be easier on Will and Zoey). Many of the flights from EWR and MCO to PEK require a stop or change of planes somewhere on the West Coast. 

 

Also, you have 10 passengers plus the film crew traveling together, so that's roughly 13 tickets (or more) in all. It's much more difficult to find that many tickets available on a flight that stops or one that requires a change of planes because passengers will be picked up in the stop or connecting city. So availability may have played a part in choosing that route.

 

In addition, the family probably wanted to be able to be seated together, as much as possible, on the 18 hour transpacific flight. That's a heck of a long time to be in the air,  trying to keep two high-energy children occupied. By seating all of the family together as much as possible, the chances of the kids constantly running up and down the aisles and potentially climbing over other passengers to get to the family member they want to spend time with would be minimized.

My daughter flew nonstop from Newark to Hong Kong.  It was a 15 hour flight. There are no stopovers on the west coast.

 

Again, why they went north with 2 small children and 6 or 8 adults to pick up 2 or 4 more adults was ridiculous.  Why keep the kids on the plane even longer.  Those 2 or 3 hours to get to Dulles could have had them 2 or 3 hours closer to the 15 hours it takes to go non-stop to China from the east coast.

[Barb23]

I'm hoping they got to visit the orphanage too.

Did they stay at the same hotel as the first time?  I think it would have been neat to take Will to the restaurant that Bill & Jen took him to right after they met & took custody of him.  I remembered he couldn't get enough to eat & eating with strangers didn't seem to bother him at all.  

[TwirlyGirly]

22 minutes ago, JerseyGirl said:

My daughter flew nonstop from Newark to Hong Kong.  It was a 15 hour flight. There are no stopovers on the west coast.

 

But they weren't flying to Hong Kong (HKG). They were flying to Beijing (PEK). The distance between the two cities is 1216 miles. That would kind of like  flying into Oklahoma City, OK when your final destination is Pittsburgh, PA. Also, even if there was a non-stop EWR - PEK on the dates they were traveling, we don't know whether there were enough tickets available on those flights/dates to accommodate their entire group.

Edited December 6, 2018 by TwirlyGirly

[JerseyGirl]

6 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

But they weren't flying to Hong Kong (HKG). They were flying to Beijing (PEK). The distance between the two cities is 1216 miles. That would kind of like  flying into Oklahoma City, OK when your final destination is Pittsburgh, PA. Just because there are non-stop flights between EWR and HKG doesn't mean there are non-stop flights between EWR and PEK.

Exactly. If flying from the east coast, the flight patterns take you north to Alaska where the curvature of the world is less, thenturn south and come down along the coast of China.  Beijing would be first and then another 1200 miles down the coast would be Hong Kong which is further south.

 

Again, it was ridiculous but I assume maybe this way ensured them enough first class seats to China, but why put those kids through multiple flights and a flight to Dulles that was not needed.

Edited December 6, 2018 by JerseyGirl

[SongbirdHollow]

It’s amazing how well Will does when they plan age-appropriate activities. This was a lovely episode compared to Scotland. 

[humbleopinion]

Can you imagine the blubbering of the grandparents, Bill and Jen if the show had them visit Will's adoptive home and there was a little person who needed a forever home...too sad and heart wrenching....

Will latched onto the chef and it was Will as his best behavior chatting naturally with him and greeting all the stall vendors...

[PrincessPurrsALot]

I kept wondering if grandpa Bill is alcoholic.  Between the blubbering, red face and the look at me antics, he is a bit much for me.  Then again, perhaps I lack forgiveness for his leaving when Bill was young.  

I found this episode more interesting than most.  I have been to China.  I can understand taking the wheelchairs given how big some of these locations are. The Forbidden City requires quite a bit of walking to see it all, plus there are usually crowds to get through.  I couldn't make fun of anyone's reaction at the wall. I teared up when I was there.  However, I doubt they are the first people to have hot chocolate at the wall.  As for GP Bill's revising history, yeah, no . . . . In many countries, tour guides have to pass tests to be certified.  They know their history very well.  The guide was very gracious when he spewed out his dates.  

The chef was wonderful with Will. Now I want to learn to make dumplings! 

[bichonblitz]

15 hours ago, Libby said:

Some years later, Dave got cancer, divorced the secretary and went back to Judy. I didn't bother to quote that part from the book.

Maybe the "new" wife didn't want to deal with the "in sickness" part of the vows. I always wondered why Judy would take him back. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of affection between the two. Judy seems strange to me. Both bio dad's are pretty sucky. 

[flyingdi]

16 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Maybe the "new" wife didn't want to deal with the "in sickness" part of the vows. I always wondered why Judy would take him back. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of affection between the two. Judy seems strange to me. Both bio dad's are pretty sucky. 

I think that Judy just seems like a really independent person and a bit of a loner.  She's alright around others but not for a long time hence the hotel room escape.  Sometimes she even looks at her grandkids like, "Okay you've been here long enough!  Time to go home to Mama!"

[humbleopinion]

Who knows what goes on in a marriage?

Having the family intact can be powerful especially with their shared experiences with Jennifer and her brother...

Apparently, the terms of his returning back to Judy is that Judy would be in charge...

When Jen moved to Houston, Judy and Dave moved to Houston to help with the Will and then Zooey.

When Judy wanted to return to Florida then sell the Houston place was sold and she had her Florida home built...

 Jen and Judy are especially close built on all the time in hospitals, seeing doctors and through the hard times when Dave was acting like a jackass......

[BitterApple]

56 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Maybe the "new" wife didn't want to deal with the "in sickness" part of the vows. I always wondered why Judy would take him back. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of affection between the two. Judy seems strange to me. Both bio dad's are pretty sucky. 

That is a really odd situation. I don't think I could remarry someone who left me for another woman. 

It's interesting how Bill and Jen are so steady and devoted to one another, yet they were products of such dysfunctional marriages. I'm sure they have their gripes and arguments, but I don't get the vibe that Bill would cheat or throw in the towel. For all his faults, he seems very appreciative of his family. 

One of the things I'd like to see in the future is the Kleins doing a special trip with just Barbara and Chuck. Not anything exotic necessarily, but maybe a weekend at Disney or the Florida Keys. Poor Barbara always seems like the fifth wheel whenever the other grandparents are around. I don't think Bill and Jen treat her badly, but she doesn't really get a chance to bond with Will and Zoe because the kids gravitate towards the adults they see more frequently. Also given that she was a struggling single mom for so many years, if anyone deserves the TLC perks, it's her. 

[watcherwoman]

I don't know the whole story of Bill's dad and mother's divorce, but are we sure that Bill's dad left Bill's mother for his current wife?  He may have left for someone else, then ended up with Deb (I think that's her name).  Both parents seem to get along great, so maybe Deb isn't the ho that was screwing around with Bill's dad while married.  Gee, I have 60 year old friends that never accepted the woman that their father was screwing while married to their mom.  I just feel everyone is very accepting of Deb, so maybe she met him after he was divorced.

My friend just got back from China and he hated that trip.  He complained about everything over there.  It looks so pretty to me, but the older I get, the more I like staying close to home.

The kids were adorable as usual to me.  Poor Zoey, she was so tired, but I love how she will sleep in everyone's arms.  That's amazing to me.  Lots of love in that family/

[Spike]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

That is a really odd situation. I don't think I could remarry someone who left me for another woman. 

It's interesting how Bill and Jen are so steady and devoted to one another, yet they were products of such dysfunctional marriages. I'm sure they have their gripes and arguments, but I don't get the vibe that Bill would cheat or throw in the towel. For all his faults, he seems very appreciative of his family. 

One of the things I'd like to see in the future is the Kleins doing a special trip with just Barbara and Chuck. Not anything exotic necessarily, but maybe a weekend at Disney or the Florida Keys. Poor Barbara always seems like the fifth wheel whenever the other grandparents are around. I don't think Bill and Jen treat her badly, but she doesn't really get a chance to bond with Will and Zoe because the kids gravitate towards the adults they see more frequently. Also given that she was a struggling single mom for so many years, if anyone deserves the TLC perks, it's her. 

I doubt they have many opportunities to cheat because even ignoring their stature they are not conventionally attractive.

[Libby]

2 hours ago, watcherwoman said:

I don't know the whole story of Bill's dad and mother's divorce, but are we sure that Bill's dad left Bill's mother for his current wife?  He may have left for someone else, then ended up with Deb (I think that's her name).  Both parents seem to get along great, so maybe Deb isn't the ho that was screwing around with Bill's dad while married.  Gee, I have 60 year old friends that never accepted the woman that their father was screwing while married to their mom.  I just feel everyone is very accepting of Deb, so maybe she met him after he was divorced.

My friend just got back from China and he hated that trip.  He complained about everything over there.  It looks so pretty to me, but the older I get, the more I like staying close to home.

The kids were adorable as usual to me.  Poor Zoey, she was so tired, but I love how she will sleep in everyone's arms.  That's amazing to me.  Lots of love in that family/

Bill never said in the book that his father left his mom for another woman. He just said that one night his mom was crying at the kitchen table and the dad was gone. He did not talk to the boys before he walked out.

He did visit with them regularly after the divorce though.

What he did describe in great detail was how poor, his mom, he, and his brothers were. The dad and stepmom and her kids lived in a four bedroom house. A few examples of how poor the mom and the boys were - 1. Bill's mom had a job where she was in charge of removing expired food from the shelves in a supermarket. Bill said that this was a great job because it enabled her to bring home free food. My guess would be that it was the expired food that she took off of the shelves. 2. The family was on welfare. 3. Bill, who was the oldest, picked up any work that he could get so that he could help the mom support the household.

Bill or Jen did not sound like they were mad at their dads at all for what went on. They both stated their fathers' behavior very matter of factly.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Libby

[Sasha888]

6 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Will latched onto the chef and it was Will as his best behavior chatting naturally with him and greeting all the stall vendors...

That was too cute. Double cute that he wanted to say it in Chinese...I wanted to yell "Ni hao!" at my TV and wave back!

 I am the goofball who will wave and say hi a million times to any smiling, happy kid who wants to say hi to me. :-) I will spend my whole time in a restaurant waving and smiling to some cutie across the room who wants to be friendly! 

I'm also the jerk who will ask the server to move me to another table if crummy parents allow their kid to be loud and annoying and don't even attempt to correct it.

I will also stop and tell parents that their children were a joy to sit by as I'm leaving a restaurant. Good parenting takes effort, and I think they deserve a compliment for it.

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

I never wanted to see China except for a few years ago. My oldest nephew moved there after high school to teach children to speak English. He absolutely fell in love with the country and said he never wanted to live in the US again. To him, he'd found home. Sadly, he got his wish. Just before he turned 20, he contracted spinal meningitis and was gone in days. Now, I see the beauty he saw. 

I was kind of glad that Zoey was asleep at the school. I was happy seeing Will experience the Chinese school all by himself. I hope when they take Zoey to India she gets the chance to experience something of her culture on her own. The kids don't have to both do everything.

[SongbirdHollow]

3 hours ago, Spike said:

I doubt they have many opportunities to cheat because even ignoring their stature they are not conventionally attractive.

I don't know why people cheat, but I am fairly certain that the conventional attractiveness of either party is waaaaay down on the list of reasons.

[Spike]

51 minutes ago, SongbirdHollow said:

I don't know why people cheat, but I am fairly certain that the conventional attractiveness of either party is waaaaay down on the list of reasons.

I think there has to be a basic level of attractiveness.  Compare Bill to Peter Dinklage or Jen to Terra Jolie. They are both about 2s out of 10.

[JennyMominFL]

31 minutes ago, Spike said:

I think there has to be a basic level of attractiveness.  Compare Bill to Peter Dinklage or Jen to Terra Jolie. They are both about 2s out of 10.

I dont think. thats true and I LOVE Peter Dinklage.

 And “ugly” people have affairs too

Edited December 7, 2018 by JennyMominFL

[howiveaddict]

On 12/5/2018 at 3:28 PM, sATL said:

RE: Will playing with the chef's food prep...and back to double dipping which was last year... I do wonder now if he's modeling (copying) seen behavior... no one seems to be stopping or correcting it... as if "this is how we do it".... hmmm...

Sounds like typical 7 year old behavior to me. A little double dipping never killed anyone. We all eat after each other. However,   I can see why Jen was worried about them eating the food before cooked. And the dough was still raw.  The bacteria in that uncooked dough would be different than the bacteria our guts are used to. And I would be the first to taste raw cookie dough.  And the chicken feet. Yuck!  I wouldn't be able to even tough them.  And I'm not a real finicky eater.

9 hours ago, flyingdi said:

I think that Judy just seems like a really independent person and a bit of a loner.  She's alright around others but not for a long time hence the hotel room escape.  Sometimes she even looks at her grandkids like, "Okay you've been here long enough!  Time to go home to Mama!"

Judy is probably like me and gets tired of being around others continually during a trip.  I like to have my alone time. Even with grandkids around. 

Bill's step dad seems really nice.  He talked about how lucky he is to have that family since he didn't have any kids of his own.  And Bill's mom seems nice too.  They were both game trying the chicken feet. So they are better  than me in that regard. See above.  

I loved Will holding the hand of the chef.  Will seemed to absorb and enjoy everything about this trip. I can't wait until they go to Mumbai.  Hope they make the trip long enough that Zoey can get over the jet lag and fully enjoy the trip.  

[IvySpice]

Quote

Compare Bill to Peter Dinklage 

Peter Dinklage is a movie star. Lots of people less hot than movie stars have affairs. "My husband is a 2 compared to Brad Pitt, so he won't cheat on me" is not good logic.

[Spike]

19 minutes ago, IvySpice said:

Peter Dinklage is a movie star. Lots of people less hot than movie stars have affairs. "My husband is a 2 compared to Brad Pitt, so he won't cheat on me" is not good logic.

I just don’t think if Bill and Jen were not celebrities either would get hit on.  I may be wrong but that’s my take.

[WillowG]

I think they're horrible parents when it comes to leniency.  Sometimes even frightening!  The way they excuse, enjoy or even brag about inappropriate behavior shocks me every episode.  Bill talks like he's making love to his words when he talks about what the kids do wrong.  They seem to enjoy teaching Zoey and Will to guilt them into giving them things.  Their physical pain and struggles will be much worse at 60 and they'll have two entitled 20 somethings that will push them hard and they'll probably wonder why or giggle.  I'm genuinely surprised at how many people think that these kids are angels.  Zoe's so manipulative I'd be afraid to baby sit her.  She often looks like she's running an angle when she talks ,haha.  Dayum!  Maybe Bill and Jen have pre-adoption sadness for them but it's like Cesar Milan says about rescue dogs, you have to quickly start treating them normal, that's what they need.

[Sasha888]

5 hours ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

My oldest nephew moved there after high school to teach children to speak English. He absolutely fell in love with the country and said he never wanted to live in the US again. To him, he'd found home. Sadly, he got his wish. Just before he turned 20, he contracted spinal meningitis and was gone in days.

HEARTBREAKING. I can't imagine. My deepest sympathy to you.

[sATL]

7 hours ago, Libby said:

Bill never said in the book that his father left his mom for another woman. He just said that one night his mom was crying at the kitchen table and the dad was gone. He did not talk to the boys before he walked out.

He did visit with them regularly after the divorce though.

What he did describe in great detail was how poor, his mom, he, and his brothers were. The dad and stepmom and her kids lived in a four bedroom house. A few examples of how poor the mom and the boys were - 1. Bill's mom had a job where she was in charge of removing expired food from the shelves in a supermarket. Bill said that this was a great job because it enabled her to bring home free food. My guess would be that it was the expired food that she took off of the shelves. 2. The family was on welfare. 3. Bill, who was the oldest, picked up any work that he could get so that he could help the mom support the household.

Bill or Jen did not sound like they were mad at their dads at all for what went on. They both stated their fathers' behavior very matter of factly.

Wasn't Bill's dad a Vietnam veteran? And then later a NYC fireman ?  If so, Bill's mom and the kids would have been entitled to some financial benefits (esp. medical ins). It might not have been much, but it would have been something.

I would think (ok - hope) Bill's mom had other duties in the store - like stockperson (ie she also put new food on the shelf) or cashier. And its not unusual when those work in the store get 1st dibs on merchandise at a reduced and yes, maybe free price. I thought though there was a standard method to discard expired food, though - to make sure it is out of circulation and to resolve the store of any liability of distributing possible contaminated food.

Well - I guess  Bill was a industrious young man. To go HS, get odd jobs and still kept his grades up to get into (and stay) NYU as a biology major.

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

38 minutes ago, Sasha888 said:

HEARTBREAKING. I can't imagine. My deepest sympathy to you.

Thank you.  It was. 7 years later and I still miss him.  I always will.

[flyingdi]

I actually find Bill Klein to be a really cute, if not outright good looking man.

[readheaded]

2 hours ago, flyingdi said:

I actually find Bill Klein to be a really cute, if not outright good looking man.

Me, too.  And, stature didn't seem to hurt Matt Roloff's extracurricular activities, even before he was on reality TV.

6 hours ago, sATL said:

Wasn't Bill's dad a Vietnam veteran? And then later a NYC fireman ?  If so, Bill's mom and the kids would have been entitled to some financial benefits (esp. medical ins). It might not have been much, but it would have been something.

I would think (ok - hope) Bill's mom had other duties in the store - like stockperson (ie she also put new food on the shelf) or cashier. And its not unusual when those work in the store get 1st dibs on merchandise at a reduced and yes, maybe free price. I thought though there was a standard method to discard expired food, though - to make sure it is out of circulation and to resolve the store of any liability of distributing possible contaminated food.

Well - I guess  Bill was a industrious young man. To go HS, get odd jobs and still kept his grades up to get into (and stay) NYU as a biology major.

Bill's dad didn't retire from the military, so there wouldn't have been any financial benefits from his service to be had for him or his family.   

Bill was, indeed, industrious and successful well before reality TV, which is why I think some people find the whole idea that he couldn't or doesn't pull his financial weight a strange idea.