Gossip Girl: The Original Series

[yeswedo]

A place to discuss particular episodes (that do not have specific episode threads), arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[yeswedo]

Quote 'em if you got 'em

[Athena]

I debated for awhile before requesting this forum because well, I didn't really like the show that much especially at the end. I never loved the show, but at its best, it was fun and entertaining. I really liked Leighton Meester as Blair and before they ruined Chuck, I was even a shipper of that piece of furniture. It was silly before the writers ran into the ground or something.

 

None of the seasons were perfect, but I think S1 is still the strongest.

 

I basically gave up on the show and its quality issues around S3 and the hotel incident, but they pulled me back in with Dan and Blair. Then stabbed me again with the finale of S5. I think the fact that I was pulled back in and hurt again is what makes me not forget about this show.

 

What were your highs and lows from this show?

[SallyAlbright]

I agree, I fell in love with Season 1 and then it got worse from then on. I never really liked Serena or Jenny, but I loved Blair and Chuck. My favorite episode is probably 1x07 Victor, Victrola. I feel like that's when the entire show shifted; in the pilot, they were really pushing Nate and Serena and the media push was for Blake Lively and Chace Crawford as the stars. However, about halfway through the first season I think it became clear that Blair was the star of the show and that Leighton Meester and Ed Westwick started getting the media attention. It's funny to think now that Chuck wasn't a huge character in the books and certainly was not meant to be the romantic lead.

[kissedbyarose]

I watched from the very beginning to the bitter end. I only really loved season one. It wasn't perfect but I thought it had a good balance of storylines.

While I did think Blair and Chuck had amazing chemistry during the first season and early season two putting them together easily ruined them for me. Then again, I wasn't actually a fan of any romantic pairing on this show. I was here for Blair/Serena mostly and other things which I can't fully articulate now but I will say this:

I will never forgive this show for the way it ended.

[Athena]

@kissedbytherose , what was the most egregious thing or things about the ending?

 

Since I never watched it, I choose to think it didn't happen. Haha. Actually, I knew it would all turn to shit when I saw the S5 finale.

 

I agree, I fell in love with Season 1 and then it got worse from then on. I never really liked Serena or Jenny, but I loved Blair and Chuck. My favorite episode is probably 1x07 Victor, Victrola. I feel like that's when the entire show shifted; in the pilot, they were really pushing Nate and Serena and the media push was for Blake Lively and Chace Crawford as the stars. However, about halfway through the first season I think it became clear that Blair was the star of the show and that Leighton Meester and Ed Westwick started getting the media attention. It's funny to think now that Chuck wasn't a huge character in the books and certainly was not meant to be the romantic lead.

 

I agree that Victor, Victrola is a very strong episode. I still love the ending. They had incredible chemistry.

 

Chuck and Ed Westwick's portrayal of him became a double edged sword for the show. It was obvious he was never suppose to be a lead from the pilot, but he became a fan favourite. However, the more they wrote for Chuck, the worse he became for me. I think Blair's character assassination started when they got together. He got a lot more character growth and plotlines which Westwick played well, but by the time S4 started (after he got shot), I couldn't stand the character.

[kissedbyarose]

The worst thing about the finale was easily the reveal that Dan was Gossip Girl.

[Scarlett45]

I'm re-watching season 1 on Netflix. Michelle Tracktenberg as Georgina is golden. I enjoyed her as a child star. When she drugged Serena I felt so sorry for her.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Scarlett45

[Derenaspoby]

I loved season 1, mainly because Derena and their chemistry. I adore Dan and Serena together, and I'm so happy they ended up together! However, I'm quite upset that he was Gossip Girl because in a lot of occasions, it doesn't make sense. Plus, Gossip girl did so much harm to them, so I don't understand why serena forgave him so easily. I think Derena should have talked more about GG in the series finale. I always rewatch season 1 for Dan and Serena (it was their strongest season). I wish they kept the identity of Gossip Girl a secret, it would have been fine with me.

And also, how the bleep is Gossip Girl a love letter to Serena and everyone else? It's just a website to expose secrets! I don't see it as a love letter. I love season 1 Dan, but as time went on, he started to become a huge jerk. Season 5-6 Dan was so mean most of the time. In season 1, he was a cute little dork with a big crush on Serena, which was SOO adorable. I love Derena, but I wish they didn't change Dan so much.

[Petunia13]

The show was amusing but honestly I hated Serena and the model who recited her dialogue on screen.

Dan was an asshole too.

[ally862]

So I didn't watch this when it aired abd am binge watching now. I only have 4 episodes left I think. I had peeked at this page about halfway through and couldn't believe people saying Dan turns into an ass in five and six. Thought they were exaggerating but man he's awful!! It's like a totally different character. It's ridiculous. Also don't like Serena ever.

[Scarlett45]

I'm watching the whole Juliet/Ben arch in season 4 and for the life of me I can't understand why more people aren't upset with Lily. An innocent man went to prision for a SEX CRIME and Lily is distressed that people will find out she commited pejory, which she actually did, and has a much better chance of no jail time than poor Ben. Like wtf. Ah Ben, a working class boarding school teacher is so much tougher than fragile Lily Bass......

[FozzyBear]

I'm Chuck Bass

[Minneapple]

I gave up on this show in season two and had come back for the Dair arc, which like everything else on this show had potential until they fucked it up. So of course I regretted returning to the show.

Goddamn I hated Chair. Another storyline that had promise until the writers fucked it up.

As stupid as the show's ending was, the "Dan as Gossip Girl" meme was hilarious, with everyone pointing out every instance that showed Dan couldn't have been GG.

[Scarlett45]

"There's a difference between a great love and the right love."- Chuck Bass

"You're a good friend."- Chuck, "One of us has to be."- Nate

[Derenaspoby]

So, I really enjoyed the first part of Chair when Chuck was falling for her, and all the early season 1 Chair. But holy freaking god, in season 3, they were literally messed up. Chuck sleeping with Jenny was so screwed up. And not to mention, the fact that Blair literally talks about how she loves Chuck, and then she goes on to kiss Dan?

Dair was a joke. I felt season 5 was so unwatchable. I actually sort of thought Dair was cute in season 4 for the last part of the season, as their friendship was pretty cute. Season 5 was pathetic, and then Dan claiming it was like rape after he had sex with Serena... Ugh? The first and second season were my favorites.

Plus, it's so obvious that Dan wasn't "always" meant to be GG. I wish they never told us who it is. Does anyone remember when Jenny took a picture of Dan and Serena in bed together while Serena was dating Nate and while Dan was dating Vanessa? Well Dan was clearly shocked when he got the GG blast. He was ALONE, too. :/ Some things just don't add up.

[Petunia13]

I liked Blair's style.

[Athena]

I liked Blair's style.

 

I did too, but I think it got worse as the series wore on. Also, Blair's makeup became overdone too. Still, of all the girls, her style is the one I would still emulate the most. Serena, Jenny, and Vanessa were all too rocker, bohemian, or plain silly as a style.

 

As much as I couldn't stand Chuck for half the show, he is the best dressed of all the cast though.

[Petunia13]

That is a good point. It got too "costumey."

[sev]

I'm Chuck Bass

"Because I'm Batman!" (Reference "How it should have ended" superheroes café) 

 

Blair about her and Chuck hooking up in season 4: "[we're] enemies... with benefits"

Edited November 24, 2014 by sev

[jjj]

I just watched the Thanksgiving episode from Season 1, "Blair Waldorf Must Pie", for the first time in many years, and it is still a wonderful episode; it gets all the longing and love so well.  Agree with all above who loved Season 1.  Looking forward to the Christmas episode in a few weeks! 

[Skittl1321]

Plus, it's so obvious that Dan wasn't "always" meant to be GG. I wish they never told us who it is. Does anyone remember when Jenny took a picture of Dan and Serena in bed together while Serena was dating Nate and while Dan was dating Vanessa? Well Dan was clearly shocked when he got the GG blast. He was ALONE, too. :/ Some things just don't add up.

 

This bothered me too. I just started season 1 yesterday, but with knowledge of who GG is.  I haven't seen the scene you are refering to yet (Dan is still dating Serena- I'm like on episode 7?) but Dan found out about Serena looking for a date to the costume ball from Gossip Girl.  So, he wrote the post himself, and then was shocked to find it there?

 

I still haven't decided if I like the show, or if I just like the pretty clothes. The idea of anyone as GG makes very little sense- the blogger is omnipotent; how could GG know things that took place behind closed doors with only 1 person?

 

I also haven't decided if I really care about any of the characters.  Mostly, it makes me so happy to not be in high school anymore (or you know, for the past 15 years...)  And a bit shocked at just how easy it is for these high schoolers to get alcohol. I mean, cool kids have always been drinkers- but parties with full open bars for minors? Um, sure.

 

Edit: Okay, just got to Serana with the pregnancy tests. GG as Dan is ridiculous.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Skittl1321

[kingshearte]

I just got through watching the whole thing from beginning to end because I found it strangely compelling. But I came to the realization that I basically hated everyone. The only one who (as far as I can recall) never deliberately went out of his way to destroy anyone he claimed to love was Nate, and as a result, he was the only one I could still stand by the end. So naturally, he winds up alone.

 

Also, this seems kind of tangential, but I feel like we're missing large chunks of the Lily-William arc. They went out of their way to give us a flashback episode showing where she first meets him (although if you blink, you'd miss that part), and then they apparently ultimately end up together, but I don't know. We don't know anything about how they got together, or really much about why their relationship fell apart in the first place, but was apparently strong enough to get them back together in the end... I know, I know. Their story is not the point, but then why bother with the flashback?

 

I will say, though, that I simultaneously love and am terrified by the pairing of Jack & Georgina.

[Minneapple]

Also, this seems kind of tangential, but I feel like we're missing large chunks of the Lily-William arc. They went out of their way to give us a flashback episode showing where she first meets him (although if you blink, you'd miss that part), and then they apparently ultimately end up together, but I don't know. We don't know anything about how they got together, or really much about why their relationship fell apart in the first place, but was apparently strong enough to get them back together in the end... I know, I know. Their story is not the point, but then why bother with the flashback?

It was a backdoor pilot. They wanted to do a spinoff about young Lily, so they did that whole episode with all the '80s flashbacks. And then...the CW didn't pick it up. I thought it was boring and ill-conceived, but maybe that's because I never cared much for LIly as a character.

[BloggerAloud]

I always think that the show went off the rails in its first season because of the writer's strike. You end the first 13 episodes with Blair and Serena swearing to take down the Upper East Side and then you come back in the next episode and Serena is telling Blair to play nice with Jenny and it was just so frustrating to me because I really wanted to see Blair and Serena team up to get revenge. This was like the first of many "set up/then fail to deliver" things that happened over the run of the show.

[swtrgrl]

I didn't end up hating everyone but it was damn close. I binged watched every episode ... watching for the first time ever a few weeks back.

 

Clearly TPTB had to change a bit of focus when Meester and Westwick took over the universe with their chemistry. Until I saw his Bass portrayal, I never considered Westwick to be attractive. That almost tear up thing he does is hot as hell.

Lively is a poor actress and I just didn't buy her chemistry or any of the story with Dan. Don't get me started on that POS. 
 

Overall, I liked the show and I am a sucker for the Blair/Chuck ship.

 

I have to say that I never ever liked Michelle Tractenburg...until this damn show. Jeez, she was brilliant as Georgina. It comes just shy of making me forget how much I hated Dawn Summers.

 

Series Finale:

• There is no way Dan was GG. None. So incredibly "let's wrap up a loose end b/c it's ending soon." So very poorly done. I've read fanwanks and fan fiction that was better.
• LOVED that Georgina and Jack seemingly ended up together.
• The Kristen Bell cameo was cheap but I liked it.
• Rufus ending up with Lisa Loeb? Cool.
• Lilly and  the Baldwin dude? Meh...but they both deserve mediocrity. 
• The Serena/Dan ending was so very obviously a fan suck up but whatever. At least they don't subject their meh on anyone else.

[WedgeOfSpite]

As background, I watched my first live episode with 5.22 for Dair (was told they were AMAZING!), and binge watched the entire previous series between that and 5.24 (I'm an insomniac who works from home, I have a lot of time on my hands)

However, the more they wrote for Chuck, the worse he became for me. I think Blair's character assassination started when they got together.

 

If I may Steven to your Stephen...(and forgive the book afterwards...I have feels! --as the kids say)

 

I think Blair's character got assassinated, along with Chuck's (and arguably the show as a whole), starting when the show decided to put her with Dan. Which they decided they wanted to do starting during three (guess when). Granted  Blair didn't get the purposeful screwjob the Chuck, and Serena characters got. Because they wanted Blair to be blameless in the break-up, because they wanted her to remain the most popular character on the show to sell B/D. Though why they felt screwing over their arguably second-most popular character, and certainly most popular couple of the show as part of that was a good idea, I'll never know. But I don't think Safran cared about things like ratings (obviously) or good story telling (even more obviously) because he was living out his sad pathetic high school dreams?  (I seem to recall readin an interview where he said the writers used their high school memories). But this time HE, er Dan, would win the most popular person!! In your FACE sporties like Nate and richies like Chuck! Or something. I dunno. Because whatever its genesis, it was the worst case of writer projection/obsession I've suffered through since Gooze's Jasus obsession on General Hospital. I used to joke that Gooze wrote Jasus scenes with a bottle of lotion and a box of tissue. Double that for Safran/Dan. A good example of Jasus syndrome is when a character not only cheats on their girlfriend, but does so by kissing the girlfriend of their best friend...said best friend apologizes to them, for said cheating. Well played, Safran. Gooze would be proud.

 

What I don't get is why Savage/Schwartz put that idiot in charge, and left him in charge as long as they did. Other than that Schwartz didn't care about the show after he got Chuck (the show, obviously not the character from GG). No idea about Stephanie, other than that I guess they wanted to do Summer/Ryan on the OC (bitch!) and regretted not putting them together? Maybe. I read an article in Variety (if I recall correctly) where they said they could do all the projects they did (at the time they had a lot, snerk to that) because they were lucky to be able to delegate to the good people in charge of running those shows. Or was it because the ratings were beginning their ne'er ending descent in season three, that she/Schwartz would be willing to hear about mixing things up, as much as they did, and hopefully create the kind of buzz Chuck/Blair got the show originally? I headcanon it kind of like in Soapdish (my second reference to that underrated film today) wherein the director who's trying to make the actress he has an obsession with, be the big star of the show. So he pitches to the network types who own the show, that the current star murder a mute homeless person. Very topical! Sure to be a big ratings winner! is what he sells (and is sure to further weight the deck by casting someone with the "face of an angel") The suits are lazy enough/desperate enough to go along with it. 4.20 was surely sold that way. Safran himself was selling the public line (the one he no doubt told Savage/Schwartz), but that is not how he set up that episode (nor do I believe that people didn't get what he was really trying sell). 

 

For whatever reason it happened, the nadir of Blair's character to me was season five, and was (not so coincidentally) the pinnacle of Blair/Dan, when she had little that made her Blair, left. I was struck the other day about this when re-watching one of the last scenes of the Salon Of The Dead, where Dan is like, "our relationship is our world."  Which first off, is incredibly unhealthy. Just on the face of it, and period.  And while I had originally just negatively contrasted that to season 3.08 when after fighting with Serena (and Serena shoving Blair's face into a cake) and Blair saying their friendship was over! Blair tells Chuck that she has him, and that's enough. But Chuck knew that was crap, and arranged (schemed)  a reconciliation between Blair and Serena, because he knew Blair really did love/want Serena in her life. So that's how I originally viewed the scene.

 

But what I realized in my most recent re-watch of that episode, was how sadly, pathetically true that was for Blair at that point. Harkening back to what Blair said about the IP, that she was so lost in her relationship that she was willing to do anything for it, and that was wrong. But then she immediately slapped/broke up with the guy who had done that (rightly so, and fuck you, Safran). But  despite what she said and did, she did in fact have an actual life outside of Chuck. She was in school, not the one of her choice and struggling in it, but she was still in school. She was friends with Serena and Nate --both of whom who backed her up. Nate told his best friend that he deserved to die alone for what he had done to Blair. But when Dan tells Blair, "our relationship is their whole world"  to Blair. It is. For her. Not for him. He has a(nother) book he's working on, being lauded in magazines, getting feted by the Young Lions Club, and he's getting offered an amazing opportunity to go to a writing workshop in Rome. She is...being made fun of in magazines, getting rejected by FIT, making a fool out of herself (in one of the only good dresses she wore that season --thank you Elie Saab) in front of the Young Lions Club. And Dan feels so threatened by having her be the same city as her ex without him, that she eventually agrees to go to Rome to support HIS great opportunity...as his girlfriend. She is going to shop! and look at art!  while HE has an amazing opportunity relating to his field. As for having Serena and Nate? just look at earlier in the same episode when talking about the salon (and seriously?) she and Dan were going to throw. Blair doesn't even dignify with a response, the idea of inviting Nate. Serena? Well she didn't want it to be awkward, so best not to invite her either. So yes, at the end of their Salon (and seriously?) Of The Dead, yes, her relationship IS her whole world. Not quite true for Dan, but ya know...that's healthy love for ya!

 

Also I guess I would say beyond that, what exactly were the Blair characteristics that supposedly were different when with Chuck? What was "assassinated" by being with him? Establish the parameters, as they say.

 

Because to me, Blair's character before being with Chuck (a total of six episodes), was with Nate for years. Despite Nate not really being comfortable with the real her (we see her lying in front of him about her mother calling, for example, while she's scheming with Chuck to fuck over Serena), and seeming not to love her, the way she loved him. He seemed to care more about Serena, than her. He seems to be with Blair out of a sense of fondness, duty, and habit. She's with him because it matches the movie in her head, the cachet it brings her, she loves him (in a way), and it's expected of her. Nate cheats on Blair with her best friend (something he has in common with Dan), and lies by omission for a year by not telling her about it. Blair forgives Nate this indiscretion and lying to her fairly immediately, and instead blames the woman he slept with. So first season Blair, before Chuck, seemed to forgive her at-the-time boyfriend, a lot of stuff, in a short amount of time. 

 

Before Chuck (those six episodes), Blair is an elitist, scheming, slut-shaming, bully. She's also wounded by a crappy parent/home situation, intelligent, fierce, fiercely loyal, has great hair/make-up and wears great clothes (hey, part of the show's early appeal was its look). I think a character on the show called pre-Chuck Blair a 98 pound, doe eyed, bon mot tossing, label whoring package of girly evil.  Blair is kind of a monster in the first few episodes, yes, even before being with Chuck romantically. In fact in the very first episode, and arguably in the second("are you wondering what Chuck will say? Chuck likes to talk about his conquests, not his failures"), Blair doesn't give one damn about what Chuck did to Jenny,and she's got to have a pretty good idea of what happened. Nope, she's just pissed about Serena, and doing whatever she can to destroy her. That's pretty fucked up, and that's pre-Chuck Blair. 

 

But we see that Blair isn't just a monster when tries to connect with Serena in the pilot, pre-finding out about Nate. And again when she doesn't want to hurt  Eric in Poison Ivy, and really when she realizes that Serena fell on her sword during Blair's scheme to protect Eric. So speaking of seminal Blair, what I consider a core characteristic of Blair is set by her reading her letter to Serena. It is showing her hurt, exposing her soft underbelly, that her fury/what she was doing to Serena arose from her love for her, missing her, needing her. That Serena was incredibly important to her, and she loved Serena. "Where are you?"

 

Blair/Serena's friendship to me, is a huge core Blair characteristic. And I would agree, was established before Chuck romantically got with Blair. Now if you disagree that is a core Blair characteristic --Stephen to my Steven. Though let me just say, Schwartz/Savage did say that Blair/Serena were the show's true One True pairing.

 

But Blair in season 5 is kissing Dan in front of Serena. Knowing Serena still loves him, and while ya know, Serena's grandmother is dying in a room behind her. And in season five I can point out many a scene where Serena helps Blair, but speaking of that core characterization, I can't think of one scene in season five wherein Blair supports/help Serena. The one time she maybe was going to help Serena...oops! she ends up kissing the guy that she knew Serena was in love with, more than once. So if being friends with Serena friendship is core pre-Chuck Blair, it was nowhere to be found in season five's Blair. Going back to the salon (and seriously?) episode as an example, Blair doesn't want to invite Serena to her party with Dan, because Serena might judge them. Not that it would painful and horrible for Serena, but ya know, might harsh their salon (and seriously?)  mellow. 

 

I think the whole Death March to Dan/Blair that started in mid-season three, had really reached its Blair character assassination zenith in season five with her: not being in school (even Nate was supposedly in school with his internship fig leaf). Not having a job, oh other than wanting to be a pwetty pwincess (because yes, being Chuck Bass's girlfriend and not Hillary in the State Department is different than marrying a Prince and taking his name, how?) Nate -- who?  Serena ---who? to screw her. Blair couldn't even scheme properly. Even the character's clothes, hair and make-up, were for crap (again, part of the show's original appeal was its look). It was only the last two episodes of season five that any part of that, came back. Oh, and not coincidentally, when Blair/Dan were starting their inevitable (and welcome) implosion, and Safy was bounced. 

 

Sorry again for the book. I grant some of this was informed by my past viewing history with crappy-ass, pet-character-shoving, show-destroying, showrunners, in how I viewed parts of the show. And I think binge watching can effect how one views things. I wasn't on boards, I wasn't real-time living this stuff, and getting outraged, and wondering what would happen next, for months on end. I just pressed "next," and occasionally 'yes, I'm still watching. Leave me alone Netflix! You know I have no life!!' 

 

Just offering my perspective. 

[Athena]

We'll agree to disagree about Blair's assassination because I feel the longer she was with Chuck, the less she had her own plot lines. I really enjoyed the W magazine plot where Blair had life of her own outside of anyone else's. After that, most of her storylines were romantic. She no longer had minions; she barely even had Serena. I liked Blair and Chuck in S3, but for me, things changed completely after the hotel plot. I couldn't get over it. I no longer saw Chuck the same way; if that plot point had not happened, I wouldn't have disliked it so much after. I enjoyed Blair/Dan. In the end, the show writers admitted they were never end game which many Blair/Chuck fans were happy about.

 

But I don't think Safran cared about things like ratings (obviously) or good story telling (even more obviously) because he was living out his sad pathetic high school dreams?

 

I think we can agree that the story telling was not great on this show.

[WedgeOfSpite]

We'll agree to disagree about Blair's assassination because I feel the longer she was with Chuck, the less she had her own plot lines.

 

She had her own plot lines in seasons two and three, despite being the romantic interest of Chuck. And I would say the plots for everyone became increasing stupider, more focused on romance and OMG moments. Blair wasn't the only one who suffered from that.  

 

I really enjoyed the W magazine plot where Blair had life of her own outside of anyone else's.

 

Blair was in the W magazine plot with Dan, not outside of anyone else. She was romcom bickering with him. She was Harry Met Sally split-screen watching the same films over the phone with him. It's where she became "friends" with him, and it's where he starts to fall for her. Because that was all of of their romantic set-up. So no, Blair didn't have a storyline outside of anyone else, and one that wasn't romantic (in its design) with the W internship. On the other hand, her school at the beginning/mid season three was a non-romantic plot line. She still had a plot line in season three with Serena. At the beginning of season four, she still had a school plot line, she had minions, and she plot lines with Serena. Until Serena starts getting replaced, bit-by-bit as Blairs best friend by Dan, in that season, which only gets worse the next season.    

 

I agree that Blair's plot lines became too romantic. That really started mid-season four, when there is the start of the Dan/Blair stuff, then the Louis stuff taking off, and of course some bits of Chuck romance along the way. But the nadir for Nuthin' But Romance Blair is in season five. When she has two, usually three guys, in love with her the entire season, and her stories revolve around romance around them. And the dumb...it burns just remembering it. The god pact?  The dowry?  The salon, and seriously?

 

And although I gather you didn't watch it, Blair had plot lines that were just hers again in season six. Though they had a very stupid romantic tie, at least she was doing shit again. She had a job that ultimately she proved herself to be good at (all by herself). She learned that she needed to keep her fierceness, but not be a bully. She had minions again, and though I wasn't fond of how little we got of it, and how shallow the reconciliation was, she had stuff that she did just with Serena again. She was even back to being good at scheming again. I missed that Blair. While I had issues with the execution of a lot of stuff in season six, the bones of  more good stuff was there for the Blair character, than I saw in season four and five. 

 

I think we can agree that the story telling was not great on this show.

 

After season two I think the writers used Cards Against Good Story Telling to tell the show.  Would explain a lot. Just have certain characters on some cards, then someone randomly throws ideas/places/scenarios on the others. "Hey, I got the card 'wolves on the highways of New York' with cards 'Serena 'and 'Nate.' Okay, so Serena is off with Nate's cousin, who is her....lover?  Okay, of course! What else. And uhhh Nate's in love with Serena again/still/whatever. And uh Nate's cousin is married, and uh Serena is only with him because she found out something about her mom. Why would that make Serena want to go with a married loser? Handwave, because next Serena is in a car accident because there are wolves on the highway, in New York. And later Nate is with Serena at the hospital still/again/whatever loving her. Genius! It's a wrap."

Edited May 14, 2015 by WedgeOfSpite

[Minneapple]

I dunno, I thought the whole "Chuck sells Blair to his uncle for a hotel" plot kind of was worse than anything Dan did to her.

[WedgeOfSpite]

I dunno, I thought the whole "Chuck sells Blair to his uncle for a hotel" plot kind of was worse than anything Dan did to her.

 

Other than being Gossip Girl, and everything attendant with that. I mean as Gossip Girl that means he had a hand in the death of Blair's baby, and almost killing her. So dunno about that one.  

 

Which yes I know Dan being GG had holes in it...in keeping with the rest of the show's rather thin grasp of logic, and continuity. For example, everything leading up to the IP was a cluterfuck of logic, characterization, and continuity. Case in point, in the pilot Chuck's mother is alive and living with his father, that ceases to be in the next episode. Then she's Evelyn having died giving birth to Chuck. Wait no, now she's Elizabeth and alive. No she isn't, she's just a liar working with Jack. Then she's alive again, and this time Diana. No wait, Elizabeth is his mother, and alive. Wait maybe she's not his mother, and Jack is his dad, maybe it's both. Nope, neither one, Bart is Chuck's f'real father...and back from the dead, as well! But not for long, and he took to the grave (f'reals this time) who Chuck's mother was. So yeah. Dan' being GG never bothered me logic or continuity-wise. Well no more than anything else. So I personally Nelson Muntz Ha Ha! when I think of all of Dan's actions at the end of season five, all of season six, and culminating in his being GG. I look at it as karma for the fuckjob they did in seasons three and four, to characters, and relationships I did like, to prop up his character. Reap met sown. 

 

But speaking of something else (kinda), was thinking how Blair used to look so kick-ass in the earlier seasons (and sooo bad in season five) and was trying to think of my favourite outfit(s) of hers. I couldn't possibly think of just one. Though the blood orange (obligatory, so pretentious, it's  fucking red!) Oscar De La Renta during the train station scene in 4.1, does spring to mind. That whole thing was just shot so well. Love the evocation to Monet's La gare Saint-Lazare. Worst one, well obviously season five, which again, too many to choose from. My mind goes to that yellow monstrosity in 5.6. And what was with the fucking hats for her, that season? The weird mustard seat cushion she was wearing during that horrible god pact story, is just inexplicable to me. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by WedgeOfSpite

[ruby24]

I used to like this show a lot- the first three and a half seasons I was pretty onboard, even if it was always a guilty pleasure for me. It was a good one though, for a while. I admit, it was Chuck/Blair that got me really hooked- it was understandable that they had to change focus after seeing the major sparks between Meester and Westwick early on that first season. I always thought it was because the two of them were undoubtedly the best overall actors in the cast, and easily (EASILY) overshadowed everyone else in terms of screen presence and charisma. They couldn't not respond to that.

[TeeVee329]

Juliet (to Serena): No, you stupid bitch, because you ruined my brother's life.

 

The way Katie Cassidy delivers the "you stupid bitch" part is perfection.

[TeeVee329]

What were your highs and lows from this show?

 

Highs?  All of season one.  Queen Serena turning Dan into a social pariah, set to "Shove It", during season two.  Blair and Serena's hilarious catfight at Yale during season two.  The Juliet arc during season four.  Basically anytime Georgina popped in.  Ditto Amanda Setton.

 

I think the show's biggest mistake was focusing too much on Who Is Gossip Girl?  I always thought GG worked better as an omnipresent evil.  Making it into a mystery to be solved was a misstep, IMO.

[Dicey]

Im on "The Townie" and first of all my mouth was drooling from the fashion during previous the Thanksgiving episode.

 

Second, maybe its just me but I cannot stand Rufus. Him and Lily werent the best of parents but at the end of the day Lily was loyal to her children..to Serena. So far Rufus usually just sends Jenny off to Brooklyn or her mothers house. Serena has done some F*CKED UP things but Lily still made sure that she was there for Serena.

 

During "Gaslit" everyone believed Serena had slept with her professor, almost got kicked out of school, hurt a couple of boys feelings and then went on a binger. Lily made sure to admit Serena to a rehab center and be there for her. Compared to "Last Tango then Paris" Jenny ruins a relationship, gets drunk and loses her virginity to a grown man..what does Rufus do? "OFF WITH YOUR HEAD and back to your mothers house" maybe a hug or two but thats it. 

 

To see Rufus sitting down eating Thanksgiving dinner(Gaslit) with his step daughter in rehab instead of Jenny really pissed me off. Why not be with your actual daughter and see whats really up with her? Find out why she is the way she is, explore her mind. I guess I'll come back at the end of the season but so far he is MY personal most hated character.

[aslightjump]

I never finished watching GG, which was a shame. I came back for parts of seasons four and five for Dair, which was amazeballs, but then they did Chair again, which by that point had become this disgusting abusive couple that made me feel like I needed a shower just watching them, so I...stopped watching again. Dair was great because they endlessly called each other on their shit instead of enabling another, but Dan was good for that. He was a huge judgey asshole but he didn't let Serena or Blair get away with their nonsense. My favorite moment of his is near the end of season 1 where he is so frustrated with Serena keeping secrets and shouts "THEN JUST TELL ME." and when she doesn't, he walks. Of course he immediately ruins that by quasi-cheating on her (huge judgey asshole) but it was great at the time. And then everything was ruined by him being Gossip Girl. So stupid.

 

The problem with GG for me is that they never wrote as well as they should have for Blair, who was their best character, and by season 3 had dropped a lot of the Blair/Serena relationship, which was what the show revolved around. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Blair: Tights are not pants!

[AndySmith]

Even without the final GG reveal, Dan was the worst. What a snotty judgmental social-climbing douchey hypocrite. 

[KnoxForPres]

I watched this show real time back in the day then got bored.

I recently revisited it via Netflix and am now the proud owner of a sequin striped short dress. Which I'm going to return- but I blame that purchase entirely on this show...at the now age of 36. Their fashion sucks me in

I loved this show for what it was. Georgina was such a highlight and Nate is just smoking hot.

Not sure if it's Blake Lively or her playing Serena, but I felt the character had an open mouthed "whaaa" 97% the time onscreen and that drove me crazy.

I love Blair and Chuck and agree they went downhill.

Rufus ended with Lisa Loeb? What the fuck?

So much I could say in real time to a watcher but to type seems overwhelming. I think I liked it. I have no regrets. Xoxo, knoxforepres

[WedgeOfSpite]

Quote

Dair was great because they endlessly called each other on their shit instead of enabling another, but Dan was good for that. He was a huge judgey asshole but he didn't let Serena or Blair get away with their nonsense. My favorite moment of his is near the end of season 1 where he is so frustrated with Serena keeping secrets and shouts "THEN JUST TELL ME." and when she doesn't, he walks. Of course he immediately ruins that by quasi-cheating on her (huge judgey asshole) but it was great at the time.

Well I agree about being Dan's being a huge judgey asshole. Maybe that's why Serena had such issues telling him stuff.  Eventually she told the other members of the NON Judging Breakfast Club because they wouldn't judge her, because they all knew they weren't in a position to judge her. In comparison Dan had started judging Serena, and making her feel like crap for not meeting his standards, since episode two. When upon actually knowing her one whole week in their time, after years of stalking, er admiring her from afar, he was a judgey asshole to her at the brunch. As Serena herself said, she had done some things she wasn't proud of, and that's what she was trying to move past, and be a better person. But nope, that wasn't good enough for Dan. He kept that up the next episode when she, stupidly, tried to get his approval again. It's only after she had been humiliated by Blair with 'admitting' going to the  Ostroff Center and he found out her motives for doing so were pure, that he forgave Serena. Though he was right back to judging her in episode four, when he didn't give her a chance to explain that she didn't know what Blair's mom had done.  And once again, Serena stupidly sought his good opinion, instead of telling him to get bent once and for all. 

So yeah, I wasn't terribly impressed with his judging Serena for not telling her 'terrible' (in actuality super lame idea that she felt she KILLED A MAN!) secret. Which when she did finally tell him, even he admitted was a hard thing to just come out and say. Oh and I'm sure her once disappointing him with her past had nothing to do with his breaking up with her at the wedding. This coming after she totally forgave him for doing whatever with Georgina, because she did know that it was her not telling him what was going on, that caused him to walk away. And  to be fair to Dan, I don't consider what he did quasi-or any kind of cheating. He broke up with Serena with that "I'm out."  So while what he did with Georgina was pathetic given how easily he was manipulated, and odd given how long it took him to be physical with Serena, it wasn't cheating to my mind.

But what I personally don't get the whole 'Dair called each other out on shit, and didn't enable each other.' If they called each out on things (and I admit to not paying a lot of attention to their scenes, because they alternately bored, and bugged me with their wannabee screwball comedy/romcom bullshit) it didn't stick. Blair was still a snob while being "friends" with Dan, or later being romantic with him. She was still a bully to her minions when "friends" with Dan (during that horrid bridesmaids stuff) or being romantic with him (the diary stuff). And generally horrible to Dorota the entire time. Dan did enable her (inbetween judging her for not changing). He never tried to stop her from being generally horrible to Dorota. He didn't tell her not to: a.) have minions in the first place b.) stop being a bully to them.  Hey, maybe she doesn't really love Louis, maybe he's not such a great guy after all? Yeah, write his wedding vows! Blair has some stupid pact with God? He doesn't tell her to get a fucking grip, and not just go along with her insanity, he plays along with it.  He certainly enabled her intellectual snobbery with his own, culminating in that horridly pretentious dinner party.  Which ended with Blair saying she wasn't going to be a part of his world, and his going along with it, saying that they were going to be each others world. 

Sure there were times Dan didn't enable Blair, but then he was her only friend by that point, having subsumed all of Serena's previous friendship role/time.

And if Blair called out Dan on being a judgey, hypocritical, asshole, I missed it. And it didn't stick either, because he remained a judgey, hypocritical, asshole throughout season four, and five when they were "friends," and later lovers. And he certainly was that way during all of season six. 

[Sugar]

I just started re-watching the series on Netflix, and even though I've seen all the seasons at least once, sometimes I'm still gobsmacked by how stupid this show is. I don't even care about the problematic Blair/Chuck/Dan relationship triangle, Dan as Gossip Girl, or Rufus randomly ending up with Lisa Loeb (lol). Here's my biggest annoyance:

Eleanor Waldorf dresses celebrities, has her own NY Fashion Week show, name drops major fashion insiders and influencers, and is considered well respected in both New York society, AND the fashion world. Yet she takes design advice from little Jenny Humphrey, and trusts her to practically run the atelier, design her line, and run her big fashion show. Jenny Humphrey, who is 15, and from Brooklyn. WTF.

Also? The clothes on this show are gorgeous. They consistently show Serena, Blair, and even Lily wearing high fashion luxury brands, and even occasionally some stunning couture pieces. Yet they make Eleanor Waldorf's fashion line look like shit you'd find on sale at Forever 21. They couldn't hire some fashion student to whip up a few pieces? Hell, they could have gone down to Parsons and snagged some Project Runway reject.

The clothes that the so called 'designers' on this show made (Jenny and Blair included) were seriously, seriously disappointing. That "fresh" and "innovative" lace dress Jenny "designed" for the white party in Season 1? Literally can buy at H&M for $12. The "finale" dress in Season 2 that Jenny made but Eleanor stole? Betsy Johnson circa 1995. And Jenny and Agnes' entire fashion line looked like something a Bratz doll would wear. But yes, we're supposed to believe that they are serious fashion designers with so much edge and talent.

ARGGGGHHH.
 

[phoenics]

On 5/11/2015 at 11:23 PM, WedgeOfSpite said:

As background, I watched my first live episode with 5.22 for Dair (was told they were AMAZING!), and binge watched the entire previous series between that and 5.24 (I'm an insomniac who works from home, I have a lot of time on my hands)

If I may Steven to your Stephen...(and forgive the book afterwards...I have feels! --as the kids say)

 

I think Blair's character got assassinated, along with Chuck's (and arguably the show as a whole), starting when the show decided to put her with Dan. Which they decided they wanted to do starting during three (guess when). Granted  Blair didn't get the purposeful screwjob the Chuck, and Serena characters got. Because they wanted Blair to be blameless in the break-up, because they wanted her to remain the most popular character on the show to sell B/D. Though why they felt screwing over their arguably second-most popular character, and certainly most popular couple of the show as part of that was a good idea, I'll never know. But I don't think Safran cared about things like ratings (obviously) or good story telling (even more obviously) because he was living out his sad pathetic high school dreams?  (I seem to recall readin an interview where he said the writers used their high school memories). But this time HE, er Dan, would win the most popular person!! In your FACE sporties like Nate and richies like Chuck! Or something. I dunno. Because whatever its genesis, it was the worst case of writer projection/obsession I've suffered through since Gooze's Jasus obsession on General Hospital. I used to joke that Gooze wrote Jasus scenes with a bottle of lotion and a box of tissue. Double that for Safran/Dan. A good example of Jasus syndrome is when a character not only cheats on their girlfriend, but does so by kissing the girlfriend of their best friend...said best friend apologizes to them, for said cheating. Well played, Safran. Gooze would be proud.

 

What I don't get is why Savage/Schwartz put that idiot in charge, and left him in charge as long as they did. Other than that Schwartz didn't care about the show after he got Chuck (the show, obviously not the character from GG). No idea about Stephanie, other than that I guess they wanted to do Summer/Ryan on the OC (bitch!) and regretted not putting them together? Maybe. I read an article in Variety (if I recall correctly) where they said they could do all the projects they did (at the time they had a lot, snerk to that) because they were lucky to be able to delegate to the good people in charge of running those shows. Or was it because the ratings were beginning their ne'er ending descent in season three, that she/Schwartz would be willing to hear about mixing things up, as much as they did, and hopefully create the kind of buzz Chuck/Blair got the show originally? I headcanon it kind of like in Soapdish (my second reference to that underrated film today) wherein the director who's trying to make the actress he has an obsession with, be the big star of the show. So he pitches to the network types who own the show, that the current star murder a mute homeless person. Very topical! Sure to be a big ratings winner! is what he sells (and is sure to further weight the deck by casting someone with the "face of an angel") The suits are lazy enough/desperate enough to go along with it. 4.20 was surely sold that way. Safran himself was selling the public line (the one he no doubt told Savage/Schwartz), but that is not how he set up that episode (nor do I believe that people didn't get what he was really trying sell). 

 

For whatever reason it happened, the nadir of Blair's character to me was season five, and was (not so coincidentally) the pinnacle of Blair/Dan, when she had little that made her Blair, left. I was struck the other day about this when re-watching one of the last scenes of the Salon Of The Dead, where Dan is like, "our relationship is our world."  Which first off, is incredibly unhealthy. Just on the face of it, and period.  And while I had originally just negatively contrasted that to season 3.08 when after fighting with Serena (and Serena shoving Blair's face into a cake) and Blair saying their friendship was over! Blair tells Chuck that she has him, and that's enough. But Chuck knew that was crap, and arranged (schemed)  a reconciliation between Blair and Serena, because he knew Blair really did love/want Serena in her life. So that's how I originally viewed the scene.

 

But what I realized in my most recent re-watch of that episode, was how sadly, pathetically true that was for Blair at that point. Harkening back to what Blair said about the IP, that she was so lost in her relationship that she was willing to do anything for it, and that was wrong. But then she immediately slapped/broke up with the guy who had done that (rightly so, and fuck you, Safran). But  despite what she said and did, she did in fact have an actual life outside of Chuck. She was in school, not the one of her choice and struggling in it, but she was still in school. She was friends with Serena and Nate --both of whom who backed her up. Nate told his best friend that he deserved to die alone for what he had done to Blair. But when Dan tells Blair, "our relationship is their whole world"  to Blair. It is. For her. Not for him. He has a(nother) book he's working on, being lauded in magazines, getting feted by the Young Lions Club, and he's getting offered an amazing opportunity to go to a writing workshop in Rome. She is...being made fun of in magazines, getting rejected by FIT, making a fool out of herself (in one of the only good dresses she wore that season --thank you Elie Saab) in front of the Young Lions Club. And Dan feels so threatened by having her be the same city as her ex without him, that she eventually agrees to go to Rome to support HIS great opportunity...as his girlfriend. She is going to shop! and look at art!  while HE has an amazing opportunity relating to his field. As for having Serena and Nate? just look at earlier in the same episode when talking about the salon (and seriously?) she and Dan were going to throw. Blair doesn't even dignify with a response, the idea of inviting Nate. Serena? Well she didn't want it to be awkward, so best not to invite her either. So yes, at the end of their Salon (and seriously?) Of The Dead, yes, her relationship IS her whole world. Not quite true for Dan, but ya know...that's healthy love for ya!

 

Also I guess I would say beyond that, what exactly were the Blair characteristics that supposedly were different when with Chuck? What was "assassinated" by being with him? Establish the parameters, as they say.

 

Because to me, Blair's character before being with Chuck (a total of six episodes), was with Nate for years. Despite Nate not really being comfortable with the real her (we see her lying in front of him about her mother calling, for example, while she's scheming with Chuck to fuck over Serena), and seeming not to love her, the way she loved him. He seemed to care more about Serena, than her. He seems to be with Blair out of a sense of fondness, duty, and habit. She's with him because it matches the movie in her head, the cachet it brings her, she loves him (in a way), and it's expected of her. Nate cheats on Blair with her best friend (something he has in common with Dan), and lies by omission for a year by not telling her about it. Blair forgives Nate this indiscretion and lying to her fairly immediately, and instead blames the woman he slept with. So first season Blair, before Chuck, seemed to forgive her at-the-time boyfriend, a lot of stuff, in a short amount of time. 

 

Before Chuck (those six episodes), Blair is an elitist, scheming, slut-shaming, bully. She's also wounded by a crappy parent/home situation, intelligent, fierce, fiercely loyal, has great hair/make-up and wears great clothes (hey, part of the show's early appeal was its look). I think a character on the show called pre-Chuck Blair a 98 pound, doe eyed, bon mot tossing, label whoring package of girly evil.  Blair is kind of a monster in the first few episodes, yes, even before being with Chuck romantically. In fact in the very first episode, and arguably in the second("are you wondering what Chuck will say? Chuck likes to talk about his conquests, not his failures"), Blair doesn't give one damn about what Chuck did to Jenny,and she's got to have a pretty good idea of what happened. Nope, she's just pissed about Serena, and doing whatever she can to destroy her. That's pretty fucked up, and that's pre-Chuck Blair. 

 

But we see that Blair isn't just a monster when tries to connect with Serena in the pilot, pre-finding out about Nate. And again when she doesn't want to hurt  Eric in Poison Ivy, and really when she realizes that Serena fell on her sword during Blair's scheme to protect Eric. So speaking of seminal Blair, what I consider a core characteristic of Blair is set by her reading her letter to Serena. It is showing her hurt, exposing her soft underbelly, that her fury/what she was doing to Serena arose from her love for her, missing her, needing her. That Serena was incredibly important to her, and she loved Serena. "Where are you?"

 

Blair/Serena's friendship to me, is a huge core Blair characteristic. And I would agree, was established before Chuck romantically got with Blair. Now if you disagree that is a core Blair characteristic --Stephen to my Steven. Though let me just say, Schwartz/Savage did say that Blair/Serena were the show's true One True pairing.

 

But Blair in season 5 is kissing Dan in front of Serena. Knowing Serena still loves him, and while ya know, Serena's grandmother is dying in a room behind her. And in season five I can point out many a scene where Serena helps Blair, but speaking of that core characterization, I can't think of one scene in season five wherein Blair supports/help Serena. The one time she maybe was going to help Serena...oops! she ends up kissing the guy that she knew Serena was in love with, more than once. So if being friends with Serena friendship is core pre-Chuck Blair, it was nowhere to be found in season five's Blair. Going back to the salon (and seriously?) episode as an example, Blair doesn't want to invite Serena to her party with Dan, because Serena might judge them. Not that it would painful and horrible for Serena, but ya know, might harsh their salon (and seriously?)  mellow. 

 

I think the whole Death March to Dan/Blair that started in mid-season three, had really reached its Blair character assassination zenith in season five with her: not being in school (even Nate was supposedly in school with his internship fig leaf). Not having a job, oh other than wanting to be a pwetty pwincess (because yes, being Chuck Bass's girlfriend and not Hillary in the State Department is different than marrying a Prince and taking his name, how?) Nate -- who?  Serena ---who? to screw her. Blair couldn't even scheme properly. Even the character's clothes, hair and make-up, were for crap (again, part of the show's original appeal was its look). It was only the last two episodes of season five that any part of that, came back. Oh, and not coincidentally, when Blair/Dan were starting their inevitable (and welcome) implosion, and Safy was bounced. 

 

Sorry again for the book. I grant some of this was informed by my past viewing history with crappy-ass, pet-character-shoving, show-destroying, showrunners, in how I viewed parts of the show. And I think binge watching can effect how one views things. I wasn't on boards, I wasn't real-time living this stuff, and getting outraged, and wondering what would happen next, for months on end. I just pressed "next," and occasionally 'yes, I'm still watching. Leave me alone Netflix! You know I have no life!!' 

 

Just offering my perspective. 

OMG - thank you for this.

I think I have the same perspective that you have because I'm also a binge watcher from this show - I never watched it in real time, so I wasn't on boards - I got it all at once with no time to interpret scenes or try to make it fit a narrative.

Being an OC watcher as well, the male writer projection onto Dan and any woman around him was hard to watch and I hated - HATED Blair when she hooked up with Dan.  But that's also because I didn't look at Blair as my favorite character over Serena.  I loved both.  So it was annoying to watch Serena grovel behind Blair for Blair's own behavior.  And I really didn't like seeing Dan be so MEAN.  Both Dan and Blair for me were kinda ruined in S5.  I was happy with the ending of the show only because it felt like the show at least TRIED to give me Chuck/Blair/Serena/Dan back.  Even if it failed in many ways.

I hated Dair.  I thought it was a horrible betrayal to Serena and I didn't understand why the show didn't play it that way.  Instead, it cast Serena as the baddie for trying to break something up that was absolutely awful.  I felt angry watching Serena dragged down by trying to destroy something that honestly never should have existed if Blair was REALLY her friend.  The only thing I liked about that debacle was Blair and the whole Grimaldi thing (I found that entertaining in an escapist kind of way).

I also didn't really like all of the Serena hatred either - and it felt like the writers turned into it sometimes rather than let the character breathe.

I rewatch this show over and over again and honestly the Dair time period was the worst.  I kept waiting for the sweet, S1 Dan to show back up again.  By the end of the show I didn't understand why anyone would ever date him.  He and Serena were the nice characters - sure they messed up (mostly Serena being naive and Dan being judgey) but they were likable.  Serena was a hot mess, but she was a sweet hot mess and she took a lot of BS from Blair, who felt entitled to everything Serena had - life doesn't always work that way - and thus became a grade A bitch over it.  A grade A bitch that I LOVED but still.

I think of Serena and Blair as opposites - one wouldn't exist without the other anyway.

Chuck and Blair had their ups and downs and some parts of the story were awful, but I still loved them to the end.  I just wish Serena and Dan at the end hadn't been such an afterthought - I thought they deserved better and I didn't think the writers were right to push Dair because they were trying to shove Blake Lively to the background.  I love Leighton, but the show needed both women front and center and growing - not just Blair.

This show is still entertaining for me to watch - but you could see a lot of backstage shenanigans evident in the writing.  

Edited June 5, 2017 by phoenics

[phoenics]

On 9/12/2016 at 6:15 PM, WedgeOfSpite said:

Well I agree about being Dan's being a huge judgey asshole. Maybe that's why Serena had such issues telling him stuff.  Eventually she told the other members of the NON Judging Breakfast Club because they wouldn't judge her, because they all knew they weren't in a position to judge her. In comparison Dan had started judging Serena, and making her feel like crap for not meeting his standards, since episode two. When upon actually knowing her one whole week in their time, after years of stalking, er admiring her from afar, he was a judgey asshole to her at the brunch. As Serena herself said, she had done some things she wasn't proud of, and that's what she was trying to move past, and be a better person. But nope, that wasn't good enough for Dan. He kept that up the next episode when she, stupidly, tried to get his approval again. It's only after she had been humiliated by Blair with 'admitting' going to the  Ostroff Center and he found out her motives for doing so were pure, that he forgave Serena. Though he was right back to judging her in episode four, when he didn't give her a chance to explain that she didn't know what Blair's mom had done.  And once again, Serena stupidly sought his good opinion, instead of telling him to get bent once and for all. 

So yeah, I wasn't terribly impressed with his judging Serena for not telling her 'terrible' (in actuality super lame idea that she felt she KILLED A MAN!) secret. Which when she did finally tell him, even he admitted was a hard thing to just come out and say. Oh and I'm sure her once disappointing him with her past had nothing to do with his breaking up with her at the wedding. This coming after she totally forgave him for doing whatever with Georgina, because she did know that it was her not telling him what was going on, that caused him to walk away. And  to be fair to Dan, I don't consider what he did quasi-or any kind of cheating. He broke up with Serena with that "I'm out."  So while what he did with Georgina was pathetic given how easily he was manipulated, and odd given how long it took him to be physical with Serena, it wasn't cheating to my mind.

But what I personally don't get the whole 'Dair called each other out on shit, and didn't enable each other.' If they called each out on things (and I admit to not paying a lot of attention to their scenes, because they alternately bored, and bugged me with their wannabee screwball comedy/romcom bullshit) it didn't stick. Blair was still a snob while being "friends" with Dan, or later being romantic with him. She was still a bully to her minions when "friends" with Dan (during that horrid bridesmaids stuff) or being romantic with him (the diary stuff). And generally horrible to Dorota the entire time. Dan did enable her (inbetween judging her for not changing). He never tried to stop her from being generally horrible to Dorota. He didn't tell her not to: a.) have minions in the first place b.) stop being a bully to them.  Hey, maybe she doesn't really love Louis, maybe he's not such a great guy after all? Yeah, write his wedding vows! Blair has some stupid pact with God? He doesn't tell her to get a fucking grip, and not just go along with her insanity, he plays along with it.  He certainly enabled her intellectual snobbery with his own, culminating in that horridly pretentious dinner party.  Which ended with Blair saying she wasn't going to be a part of his world, and his going along with it, saying that they were going to be each others world. 

Sure there were times Dan didn't enable Blair, but then he was her only friend by that point, having subsumed all of Serena's previous friendship role/time.

And if Blair called out Dan on being a judgey, hypocritical, asshole, I missed it. And it didn't stick either, because he remained a judgey, hypocritical, asshole throughout season four, and five when they were "friends," and later lovers. And he certainly was that way during all of season six. 

WedgeofSpite - you and I see things exactly the same way.  I think I really hated Dan during a lot of this because he had been SO judgmental to Serena, but Blair can just do whatever and *crickets*.  They really did try to rom-com the two of them - but Blair showed zero growth during that time... and I hated how she just abandoned Serena.

Out of all of the seasons, the Dair part of S5 is what I hated the most and felt to be the biggest betrayals to the characters.  It just felt like everything Blair did or Dan did was supposedly justified because Blair had grown up in Serena's shadow and thus deserved to hurt/harm her like this.  Because I couldn't buy into Blair being justified in anything she did to Serena (due to not being as sparkly as Serena or whatever), Dair just felt like a massive betrayal.

It annoyed me that the show tried to play it off as "okay" and "right" because "Serena was more popular than Blair growing up ..." and whatever else logic the show tried to apply to it.

I think what I couldn't get over was how mean Dan had become.

[Sugar]

Random observation - those who live in Penthouses sure don't have a lot of privacy. I mean, how many times do people just get on the elevator and walk into the Waldorf/VDW foyer unannounced (maybe even Chuck's suite at the empire - I can't remember if he had a private elavator too)? I'd be pretty pissed if I were sitting on my couch reading the paper, and some rando just dropped by. You pay 20 mil for an apartment and don't even get a door?!

I actually don't hate Dan, and don't find him to be as judgemental as others do. From his POV, I think he's a bit bitter about some of these rich kids getting away with whatever they want, while he (in his mind) has to work for everything and suffer his consequences, so maybe that resentment comes out. But I think it's natural, and totally believable. Also, let's not forget that these characters are horrible, and they regularly do incredibly fucked up things to one another (yes, even to people they so call "love"). I'd be judging the pants off them too!
And as someone who always hated Serena, I find her "oh, but I can explain, it wasn't my fault" open-mouthed incredulity that anyone could not be instantly seduced by her charm and beauty to be worthy of judgement. There are a million times where she was in the wrong, and instead of taking full ownership, she tries to pass the buck or explain how really, she's the victim here, and she didn't "intend" anything bad to happen. So, yea, maybe if it happens once or twice, I'd give that a pass. But consistently? Sorry, but I don't blame Dan passing judgement that she is in fact exactly the spoiled, snobbish, irresponsible socialite that she claims not to be.

I think the relationship that I found most toxic in this whole mess of a show, was Rufus and Lily's. I still cannot believe the story line where William comes back for the first time, and rather than listen to her husband, who thinks something is not quite right, she immediately takes William's side and tells Rufus to go back to Brooklyn. And then? "Oh hey, Rufus, I was wrong - my ex-husband WAS lying about me having cancer. Oops! My bad, guess we can get back together" and Rufus sees no problem with this and just moves back in, and everything is fine. DUDE.
There have been a ton of other situations where Lily treats Rufus like crap, believes anyone and everyone over him, and then HE either apologizes, or just takes her back like it's nothing. I know they're not as central to the main plot as Chuck/Blair or Dan/Serena, but their relationship was always the most problematic for me. Anytime there's even the slightest hiccup, Lily acts like she just found out that Rufus drowns puppies for fun, and she exiles him to Brooklyn. I mean, Rufus sucks, but he deserves better!

Actually, come to think of it, Lily's main character trait is probably "jumps to conclusions".

Also, it amazes me that people like William Vanderbilt talk about Gossip Girl like it's a legitimate news source/threat, and not just some petty high schoolers. That's like hearing Barack Obama has a 'burn book' and reads TMZ. I always assumed GG was a teen thing, and mostly limited to the Constance/St. Judes audience. Plus even the name is so silly - "Gossip Girl". It's so ridiculous that these mega tycoons are sitting around discussing petty drama between teenagers, lol.

My very unpopular opinion, is that I miss Jenny Humphrey in the later seasons. Sure, she was annoying and whiny, but she was a good plot device whenever there was a lack of drama, and I always liked her enemy/frenemy relationship with Blair. Though I admit that after she slept with Chuck, it was less fun. I really wish they hadn't gone down that road for either character - I didn't buy that Chuck would sleep with Jenny after his growth in S3, and I really hated that Blair only saw that situation as a personal insult, and not a case of statutory rape (or at the very least, as Chuck taking advantage of a young girl). I was always interested in Jenny as a character, and I thought that TM did a great job with her - particularly in capturing the desperation of wanting to fit in and be accepted. I would have liked to see Jenny graduate, and see how her character evolved over the final seasons.

And lastly - Georgina Sparks was my favorite character after Blair, and I always grin like an idiot when she's on screen. I appreciate that they made her super smart and resourceful, and not just a bitchy mean girl. I love that she ended up with Jack Bass too - I would totally watch a spinoff where it's just Jack and Georgina ruining lives and taking over the world.
 

[emcmac87]

On 6/7/2017 at 7:09 AM, Sugar said:

Random observation - those who live in Penthouses sure don't have a lot of privacy. I mean, how many times do people just get on the elevator and walk into the Waldorf/VDW foyer unannounced (maybe even Chuck's suite at the empire - I can't remember if he had a private elavator too)? I'd be pretty pissed if I were sitting on my couch reading the paper, and some rando just dropped by. You pay 20 mil for an apartment and don't even get a door?!
 

I think I wrote something similar awhile back. That was always so weird. I feel like I'm reality there must be a doorman or something who buzzes before they get let up the elevator, but then that would have ruined a bunch of their plots on the show lol

 

I was watching WWHL, not sure when the episode was from, but they were interviewing Armie Hammer, he played Gabriel, and I guess he was supposed to be on longer, but was written out earlier and it was implied it was due to Blake Lively. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Articles, interviews, and news about the show, the cast, and the crew go here!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ed Westwick accused of rape

[Artsda]

She's now filed a police report.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

A second actress has accused Ed Westwick of rape

[TryB]

On 5/12/2015 at 8:53 AM, WedgeOfSpite said:

As background, I watched my first live episode with 5.22 for Dair (was told they were AMAZING!), and binge watched the entire previous series between that and 5.24 (I'm an insomniac who works from home, I have a lot of time on my hands)

Snip

This is almost a three year late reply, but I disagree with so much of what you said that I just had to write this. 

 

I honestly don't understand how anyone could get the impression that Chuck or Blair or anyone got character assassinated for Dan/Blair of all people, a couple who had the most amazing buildup this side of Pacey/Joey but ultimately only got to be a prop for bringing back the tired toxic relationships. 

 

Blair's character assassination in season 3 has nothing to do with Dan or a future Dan/Blair hookup. If it did, we'd have seen way more seeds strewn before 4.11. And if you really think all of Chuck/Blair's problems were sabotage for a ship that didn't even end up together and sacrificed for Chuck/Blair, I don't know what to say. Savage was still Executive Producer and she was writing for the show in season 3, so again, I don't know how you are going there with the writer insert with Safran. What I think happened was the writers had no idea what to do with Chuck when he wasn't being an a-hole that you love to hate (in the first half of season 1), a-hole that you kind of root for because of his heart was growing two sizes out of his love for Blair (season 1 second half) and sort of a tragic richboy Hamlet (season 2). So they write him as this weird 18 going on 40 businessman with mind numbingly boring business problems. Thing was, Blair was in a relationship with him, so her character is entwined with his. And since they didn't commit fully to her other story lines (like her being an outcast at college but instead of it resulting in any sort of character development where she realises she's been living in a bubble and progressing, they give her an out where she gets to go back to her juvenile high-school hierarchy drama with a transfer to Columbia), she has to be part of Chuck's boring story lines and she spends the entire season giving and giving and giving. Blair in their relationship was most of the times an accessory to Chuck's drama rather than both of them growing together. 

 

Then the whole fiasco with the hotel happened which should have been the death knell for that relationship, but then he also sleeps with Jenny. Chucks manipulation of Blair to sleep with Jack in exchange for his hotel isn't exactly out of character for him if you realise he's a two time attempted rapist and that he also once compared Blair to a beast of burden. 

And then the writers had the audacity to give Chuck a way out, instead of him suffering and grovelling at Blair's feet. He got shot, rescued by Fleur Delacour, lived in Paris as Henry Prince, got to come back to New York and date Fleur etc etc. Once again, Blair is the one who goes out to convince him to come back, she's the one who's giving, again and again. How much more onesided could this relationship get? 

 

The reason people raved about Dan/Blair was that it was a breathe of fresh air compared to all that came before it. They were fun, drama free, heartfelt and something we hadn't seen till then in the show. The biggest reason was that Blair finally wasn't the only one giving, they were of value to each other. She was finally getting some positive reinforcement. Hell, first half of season 5, Dan is the one who's always giving, standing by her side when she doesn't even know if she's having the Prince or Chuck's child. Compared to the toxicity of her and Chuck (which got even more toxic when Chuck almost punches her in a drunken rage), whatever little problems they had (like the salon episode) were small fish.

Blair/Serena friendship had already reached a point where it seemed like they were only friends because they were friends since they were children. Them feuding over Columbia was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I'm not really sure Dan/Blair did much damage to them. 

 

Season 6 is an abomination and the worst half season of a television show to ever exist. A hack job. Dan as Gossip Girl is stupid beyond belief and the whole thing should just be ignored because it makes everything else that came before into a huge joke. If it's canon that Dan is gossip girl, it is also canon that he reacts with shock to gossip girl posts when no one is around, sends out posts that ruin his own relationships and then angsts over it, made himself a social pariah through his own posts etc  etc. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by TryB