The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[Guest]

As annoying and pointless as she was (and I didn't even watch all of her scenes, haha), I'm cool with them dropping her story and forgetting she exists because I don't want Susan to suddenly appear next season. So...bye bye Sue! It wasn't nice knowing you!

[insomniadreams88]

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

As annoying and pointless as she was (and I didn't even watch all of her scenes, haha), I'm cool with them dropping her story and forgetting she exists because I don't want Susan to suddenly appear next season. So...bye bye Sue! It wasn't nice knowing you!

Agreed. The best thing they can do is leave all the worst parts of season 5 in season 5. That includes Susan (and Evelyn). 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Another thing frustrating about Susan (and Billy, too) is that Oliver and Felicity never did say why they decided to have relationships with these two people. At least in Oliver's case, Diggle diagnosed it as loneliness. 520 never explained why after the "I'm not ready" to talk yet convo, Felicity decided to date, and on top of that a cop. It's like both of them were self-sabotaging their relationships. Although, weirdly enough both LIs were perfectly OK with Oliver & Felicity being vigilantes.

[Guest]

I can head canon that Felicity was scared of getting hurt again and so threw herself into dating someone else but we really shouldn't have to guess any of that crap.

As for Oliver, well, considering how happy he was to start dating Felicity again only 4 episodes after dumping Susan, I'm guessing the loneliness thing was right. Also no other options? Desperation? IDK. Haha.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Guest

[Mellowyellow]

He also looked like he had no idea what/who Thea was talking about when she said "Please tell me it's not Susan Williams" in 522. 

[tangerine95]

I get the feeling from some stuff MG said that they don't consider Oliver and Felicity dating other people as a big deal,that they consider it a normal part of a break up.Which I guess it is in real life but on a TV show after an engagement,it really should have been explained better and given a proper reaction.I remember thinking how weird it was that Digg who is always someone Oliver goes to for dating advice was never given a scene to comment on Oliver dating Susan apart from that loneliness comment when it was basically over or on Felicity dating Billy.Or even Thea in all her disgust of Susan never mentioned the Felicity aspect of it all.

I guess they knew how illogical it was so they just tried not to examine it too closely or didn't want the audience to do it either lol

[Primal Slayer]

If they were going to have those two move on even for a season and be in different relationships then they should've actually explored those relationships and how both of them differ from their time as a couple. 

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, leopardprint said:

They spent a lot of time setting up the private investigator (who she kept meeting with while they dated MG! How is that not shady? FFS!?!?!) for it to have been just to trick the audience. 

And she did deliberately screw over Thea! She was shady! It was the dumbest execution of will they/won't they I have ever seen and I have watched some bad television. 

I can't let it go, @Angel12d, I have to know! 

I get it, but I don't think this is the time to ask him.  Right now I think you'd get spin on how they got just what they wanted and she was wonderful blah, blah, blah.  Save that question for a year from now when he's in love with a new theme and half apologizing for the previous season like they do every year, lol. 

31 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

If they were going to have those two move on even for a season and be in different relationships then they should've actually explored those relationships and how both of them differ from their time as a couple. 

I think that would be giving each of them more importance than they actually had, lol.  Billy had his cop connection to kinda sorta tie him to the show and Susan the reporter thing. I think their biggest appeal in both cases was proximity to the story.  

Edited May 30, 2017 by BkWurm1

[leopardprint]

First, I would like to issue a blanket apology to everyone if I gave the merest hint of an impression that I wanted her to return in any capacity including mentioning her name. In fact they should ban the word "reporter" from Arrow because it's now been permanently tainted and seriously considering never using the words "good", "person" and "care" again. 

For me, the issue with Susan compared to Billy, is there was not a single positive aspect she brought to Oliver's life. She made him look desperate, stupid, judgemental, sanctimonious and uncaring. The only good thing you can say about them is that it showed Oliver has the capacity to move on which doesn't even matter that much if they were really planning on reuniting Olicity as they keep insisting. That relationship really ruined Oliver Queen in my eyes. The worst you can say about Billy is that he made Felicity look somewhat desperate, I guess. 

The dating someone else doesn't really bother me it's that Susan Williams is the character they wanted him to date that is baffling. McKenna and Helena were obviously not the love of his life but it didn't make me start wondering if Oliver had inhaled too many arrowhead shavings. 

That's why I think there is something obviously missing that didn't make it on screen and why I want an explanation and an apology (wishful thinking, haha) but I will accept just an explanation. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[Morrigan2575]

Billy makes sense to me, I understand why he was there and what purpose he served. The execution wasn't great but, I get it. However, I have no clue why Susan was there or what purpose she served. It's why I'm sticking with them having other plans for Susan which they changed during filming.

[tv echo]

Lest you think the comic book sites are softening their stance on Felicity or Olicity, I just read two recent CBR articles, one of which listed Felicity as #1 on the writer's list of Arrowverse characters that needed to die, and the other of which listed a GA/BC romance as the #1 way to prevent Arrow's cancellation in S6 (fyi, by BC, the writer meant a reformed BS, not DD).

[Starfish35]

5 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Lest you think the comic book sites are softening their stance on Felicity or Olicity, I just read two recent CBR articles, one of which listed Felicity as #1 on the writer's list of Arrowverse characters that needed to die, and the other of which listed a GA/BC romance as the #1 way to prevent Arrow's cancellation in S6 (fyi, by BC, the writer meant a reformed BS, not DD).

Hahahahahahahahahaha ok.  Wow.  Brb, going to look for an Elsa gif....

Edited May 31, 2017 by Starfish35

[lemotomato]

If after 5 seasons they're still writing stuff like that, well. There's not much more to say about their thought process. 

[LeighAn]

I guess they didn't see that part where Oliver and Felicity GOT BACK TOGETHER then. 

[Delphi]

Yupp.  After five years of back peddling like crazy,  the sixth year is when they are finally going to murder Oliver's hacker girlfriend and put him with his clear soulmate; his dead exgirlfriends doppelganger from an alternative Earth with absolutely no former ties to him!

[strikera0]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Lest you think the comic book sites are softening their stance on Felicity or Olicity, I just read two recent CBR articles, one of which listed Felicity as #1 on the writer's list of Arrowverse characters that needed to die, and the other of which listed a GA/BC romance as the #1 way to prevent Arrow's cancellation in S6 (fyi, by BC, the writer meant a reformed BS, not DD).

I thought that article was very telling in terms of how much the comic stans truly value the Black Canary character - as in, not at all. Apparently, the real Black Canary (Black Siren) has to serve as a love interest to Green Arrow while the fake Black Canary (Dinah Drake) gets to have the Birds of Prey when the latter is by far the more desirable storyline because it establishes Black Canary as a hero in her own right. When alleged hardcore fans think like this, it comes as no surprise that the Black Canary character was thoroughly screwed over on the actual show. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by strikera0

[Starfish35]

Yeah I was curious so I looked it up.  Hahahahahaha ok I'm going to maybe stop laughing sometime.  (Among other stellar ideas, they wanted to bring Hawkman in as a road trip buddy for Oliver.  Wow, just...wow)

Even if a person is fixated on the GA/BC pairing (which, for the record, I'm not advocating), I'm baffled by the insistence that it absolutely must be KC's Black Canary.  I just absolutely will never ever comprehend that. 

[bijoux]

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah I was curious so I looked it up.  Hahahahahaha ok I'm going to maybe stop laughing sometime.  (Among other stellar ideas, they wanted to bring Hawkman in as a road trip buddy for Oliver.  Wow, just...wow)

That just shows a disturbing lack of imagination. Why would they need roads, Hawkman can fly!

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Lest you think the comic book sites are softening their stance on Felicity or Olicity, I just read two recent CBR articles, one of which listed Felicity as #1 on the writer's list of Arrowverse characters that needed to die, and the other of which listed a GA/BC romance as the #1 way to prevent Arrow's cancellation in S6 (fyi, by BC, the writer meant a reformed BS, not DD).

I think I saw those articles. Didn't the one listing characters that need to die include Diggle, Thea, Lance, Rene and Black Siren? And basically just leave Oliver, Dinah and Curtis as the only ones on Arrow who should stay alive? And didn't the other article say that Oliver should leave Star City and move to Seattle (?) with Black Canary? 

I just don't understand why some people can't get past wanting the show to be an exact copy of the comics -- but only the comics that fit the story they want to see. 

[Starfish35]

9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

And didn't the other article say that Oliver should leave Star City and move to Seattle (?) with Black Canary? 

Yeah that's the one.  I think a lot of these articles are mainly just click bait though.

But for those who are curious, their 15 suggestions:

15. Slade Wilson back in the cast

14. Flash-forwards

13. Get rid of Mr. Terrific

12. Bring Roy Harper back

11.  A roadtrip with Hawkman

10.  Seattle

9.  An activist Green Arrow

8.  Q-Core

7.  Characters with separate storylines

6.  John Diggle: A.R.G.U.S. Director

5.  Bring Huntress back as a hero

4.  The Birds of Prey (Felicity, Dinah, Huntress, possibly Thea)

3.  The Rise of Solomon Grundy

2.  The Outsiders War

1.  A Green Arrow and Black Canary (reformed Black Siren) romance ("...as they fight crime together, alone in Seattle.")

Edited May 31, 2017 by Starfish35

[Delphi]

I'm all for 13 and 12 though,  so now I'm conflicted. 

Also,  as if Oliver and Carter are such stunning conversationalists that 11 would be at all interesting.   Though,  if they wanted to have their Hush episode,  that's the perfect way to do it. 

[Starfish35]

6 minutes ago, Delphi said:

Though,  if they wanted to have their Hush episode,  that's the perfect way to do it. 

I love it. :)

I actually think #4 might be cool, but just as a standalone episode.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Starfish35

[insomniadreams88]

Gotta love the whole "Oliver should move to Seattle (with reformed Black Siren)" bit considering last summer's "Oliver's love is Star City." But sure, after being its mayor for a year - and surviving! - Oliver's going to say, "Screw it. I want to leave Star City and move to Seattle and be with a reformed Black Siren" (even though there have been no signs that she can or wants to be redeemed).  

[leopardprint]

Why do they want John to be the head of ARGUS? ?

I'm all for #7.

I'd just like to see #9 for the unintentional hilarity and WTFness after that thoughtful and incisive gun control episode where I learned that if a main villain uses a gun on a character but would totes still use a non gun weapon to kill them, that character is not actually a victim of gun violence.

#4 would be fun if all the men are off with their kids at the park or something and all the ladies have to take care of business. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by leopardprint

[statsgirl]

15 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Why do they want John to be the head of ARGUS? ?

He's a man.

[Guest]

I actually don't mind a couple of things on that list. I think Curtis has outstayed his use/welcome tbh so he can go. I wouldn't mind seeing Roy back a few times, though I get why they might not need him back full time. I also like the sound of a Birds of Prey type episode with Felicity, Dinah, Thea and Huntress. 

Not a fan of flashforwards ever though. And some of them I just don't know what they're talking about because I don't read the comics. What exactly is Q-Core?

Edited May 31, 2017 by Guest

[shadow2008]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Even if a person is fixated on the GA/BC pairing (which, for the record, I'm not advocating), I'm baffled by the insistence that it absolutely must be KC's Black Canary.  I just absolutely will never ever comprehend that. 

Like I said before, it's because the writers made a martyr of Laurel/KC when they killed her off the way they did. If they had gotten rid of her in season 2 when the show was at it's creative peak, nobody aside from hardcore KC fans would have batted an eye. Instead, the writers waited until season 4 when a lot of viewers had grown wary of the show and had her go out like a chump who was shipping Olicity on her death bed. That's when the myth of "Laurel/KC = the best Black Canary ever" was born and everything that wasn't geared 100% towards her started to be considered a personal offense against her. I can already tell you, even if Black Siren ends up being redeemed but is then moved to LOT or returned to her home universe, there will be a lot of angry people on the internet. That rabid crowd won't be happy until KC gets her old role back (BC, female lead and GA's primary love interest). 

Edited May 31, 2017 by shadow2008

[catrox14]

Diggle being in charge of ARGUS kind of splits up OTA. I wonder if that is the goal?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, shadow2008 said:

Like I said before, it's because the writers made a martyr of Laurel/KC when they killed her off the way they did. If they had gotten rid of her in season 2 when the show was at it's creative peak, nobody aside from hardcore KC fans would have batted an eye. Instead, the writers waited until season 4 when a lot of viewers had grown wary of the show and had her go out like a chump who was shipping Olicity on her death bed. That's when the myth of "Laurel/KC = the best Black Canary ever" was born and everything that wasn't geared 100% towards her started to be considered a personal offense against her. I can already tell you, even if Black Siren ends up being redeemed but is then moved to LOT or returns to her home universe, there will be a lot of angry people on the internet. That rabid crowd won't be happy until KC gets her old role back (BC, female lead and GA's primary love interest). 

Laurel went out like a chump the moment she uttered the words "You're the love of my life" or whatever she said. I still can't believe they did that. I know they only mentioned Olicity because they didn't want Oliver to return the sentiment but it just made it even worse. I'm no Laurel fan but even now I don't know why they didn't let her go out fighting. Yikes.

Also, I agree. I dread to think of the reaction from her hardcore stans when she doesn't become BC again next season. Double yikes.

[lemotomato]

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Also, I agree. I dread to think of the reaction from her hardcore stans when she doesn't become BC again next season. Double yikes

They're calling Dinah Drake a fake BC, so how much lower can they go, really?

[apinknightmare]

17 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Diggle being in charge of ARGUS kind of splits up OTA. I wonder if that is the goal?

Yes, definitely. The comics crowd from what I've seen generally seems to HATE OTA (and think OTA was either Oliver and Laurel or Oliver, Shado and Slade - even though he didn't become the Arrow until...never mind).

Edited May 31, 2017 by apinknightmare

[Starfish35]

6 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

They're calling Dinah Drake a fake BC, so how much lower can they go, really?

I don't think they actually called her a fake BC, to be fair.  But they had Black Siren filling the BC spot in their #1 GA/BC pairing, so......

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Diggle being in charge of ARGUS kind of splits up OTA. I wonder if that is the goal?

Yep.  Diggle running ARGUS, Felicity running the BoP in Star City, and Oliver off in Seattle with his reformed love BS. *cough*

Edited May 31, 2017 by Starfish35

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

They're calling Dinah Drake a fake BC, so how much lower can they go, really?

I'm thinking more hate towards writers/EP's but they already did that when Laurel died so IDK. Haha.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Guest

[insomniadreams88]

40 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Why do they want John to be the head of ARGUS? ? 

 

29 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

He's a man.

Yep. Never mind that he's never expressed any interest in being head of ARGUS. 

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Yes, definitely. The comics crowd from what I've seen generally seems to HATE OTA (and think OTA was either Oliver and Laurel or Oliver, Shado and Slade).

I've seen all combinations that exclude Felicity possible for OTA from the comics crowd (Oliver/Tommy/Laurel, Oliver/Diggle/Laurel, Oliver/Diggle/Laurel/Thea, etc.). I just have to laugh when I see that. It's canon that OTA is Oliver/Felicity/Diggle. That's never going to change.

[strikera0]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I don't think they actually called her a fake BC, to be fair.  But they had Black Siren filling the BC spot in their #1 GA/BC pairing, so......

They used Black Canary in quotation marks for Dinah Drake in the writeup. 

[bijoux]

Oliver/Diggle/Laurel? ? Pull the other one.

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I don't think they actually called her a fake BC, to be fair.  But they had Black Siren filling the BC spot in their #1 GA/BC pairing, so......

Sorry, I meant the hard core LL/KC fans. 

I lowkey want Dinah to reveal next season that in her other undercover operations she ran a flower shop and fake dated/married a guy named Larry. 

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

I lowkey want Dinah to reveal next season that in her other undercover operations she ran a flower shop and fake dated/married a guy named Larry. 

I like it. :)  

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah that's the one.  I think a lot of these articles are mainly just click bait though.

 

I'd much rather have Laurel in Birds of Prey then crime fighting with Oliver. 

I do think an Argus spin off centered around Lyla/Diggle would be good though. Except keep Lyla as head of Argus or downgraded but in no way have Diggle replace her in that spot.

[shadow2008]

9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Sorry, I meant the hard core LL/KC fans. 

I lowkey want Dinah to reveal next season that in her other undercover operations she ran a flower shop and fake dated/married a guy named Larry. 

It doesn't have to be as ham-fisted as that. When Dinah was looking for an appartment, she ended up leasing one with a garden, so I am thinking she might enjoy to do some gardening in her spare time. IMO, it would be interesting if they eventually did a storyline where Dinah uncovers that the SCPD is balls deep in a huge corruption scandal and it leads to her quitting the force. After a short identity crisis, she ends up opening her own flower shop. Florist by day, vigilante by night!

[strikera0]

I just found this article:

Should Arrow season 6 have a Katie Cassidy – Black Siren prequel story?

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

What exactly is Q-Core?

Quote

With The New 52 relaunch in the comic books, we saw Oliver Queen operating in Seattle, and at the head of a new division of Queen Consolidated called Q-Core.

It sounds like they want Oliver to start a new company in Seattle so he can be a CEO by day and a vigilante by night.  Again.  Because Oliver is totally the entrepreneur type and the CEO thing went so well the first time.

24 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

I just found this article:

Should Arrow season 6 have a Katie Cassidy – Black Siren prequel story?

Spoiler

Isn't that happening?  At least to some extent?  I thought I read somewhere that MG said they would be showing some of BS's backstory. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Starfish35

[Delphi]

Eh,  I dunno.   I mean,  I really wanted the Queen Consolidated plan to work.   It could've worked,  I mean Oliver isn't an idiot and with guiding hands like Walter and Moira and whomever else helping him.   But it was a plot point to the writers not a story.   Same thing happened with Felicity CEO, granted they fleshed it out a bit for her and actually showed her working and struggling but not much.  These writers don't care about where money comes from,  or the characters lives,  they care about leather and domino masks. 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

It sounds like they want Oliver to start a new company in Seattle so he can be a CEO by day and a vigilante by night.  Again.  Because Oliver is totally the entrepreneur type and the CEO thing went so well the first time.

I googled it and Q-Core invents the Queen version of iPads and iPhones which sounds more appropriate for Felicity tbh. IDK.

Edit to add: Didn't Flash have a future newspaper clipping which mentioned Queen Inc? So maybe they'll do that?

Edited June 1, 2017 by Guest

[Primal Slayer]

3 hours ago, strikera0 said:

I just found this article:

Should Arrow season 6 have a Katie Cassidy – Black Siren prequel story?

I don't expect anything outside of 1 episode to really explore E2 side of things and even then it will probably only be like 10 minutes but im ready and wanting.

[BkWurm1]

52 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

 

I don't expect anything outside of 1 episode to really explore E2 side of things and even then it will probably only be like 10 minutes but im ready and wanting.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I expect as well.  These writers LOVE origin stories.  There's no way they wouldn't give her some kind of flashback.  

[Trini]

19 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yeah, that's pretty much what I expect as well.  These writers LOVE origin stories.  There's no way they wouldn't give her some kind of flashback.  

Oh boy; am I going to have to watch Arrow to see Earth-2 characters again? Eh, it would be only the Earth-2 versions of Arrow characters.

[Primal Slayer]

I really want E2 Diggle to be a meta. 

[Lady Calypso]

I'll be totally honest here; anything Earth-2 is all good with me. E2 Harrison Wells and his daughter has made me more open minded. I wouldn't mind a one episode flashback of Black Siren because I'm interested in learning more about Earth 2 and E2 Laurel's life. I'm always a sucker of other versions of characters because we get to see the actors mix it up. 

Plus, super curious as to how Black Siren became Zoom's right hand woman, since her big weakness is not being able to pay attention to her surroundings. You'd think he would have gone through a more thorough interview process. 

[BkWurm1]

It actually hadn't occurred to me that we might get an E2 Diggle or even Felicity.  (Though they both probably would be cameos at best). But now I want that.