20/20

[Wings]

What irritates me is the rush to blame the family member without considering anyone else.  Here they lost precious time in finding Sabrina, they were totally focused on locating her body. 

An APB should have been sent out with her picture and an Amber alert.   It should have gone on the evening news.  Someone might have noticed a new baby in the neighborhood.  Or a store clerk having seen her on the news. 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Wings

[valdawn]

1 hour ago, Wings said:

What irritates me is the rush to blame the family member without considering anyone else.  Here they lost precious time in finding Sabrina, they were totally focused on locating her body. 

An APB should have been sent out with her picture and an Amber alert.   It should have gone on the evening news.  Someone might have noticed a new baby in the neighborhood.  Or a store clerk having seen her on the news. 

Unfortunately, there were no such thing as Amber alerts then. I’m not sure when they started but I’m pretty sure that wasn’t a thing. But I agree that when the investigators get blinders and only assume one thing, there are a lot of missed opportunities to pursue other avenues. 

[Wings]

1 hour ago, valdawn said:

Unfortunately, there were no such thing as Amber alerts then. I’m not sure when they started but I’m pretty sure that wasn’t a thing. But I agree that when the investigators get blinders and only assume one thing, there are a lot of missed opportunities to pursue other avenues. 

Amber alerts began in 1996 so it had been going for 2 years when she was taken. It was still in its infancy but they didn't mention any attempts to search for a living child. 

[AZChristian]

Statistics on missing children from the Polly Klaas Foundation:

• Only about 100 children (a fraction of 1%) are kidnapped each year in the stereotypical stranger abductions you hear about in the news.

And of those, imagine how few take place by a stranger sneaking into a home in the middle of the night and stealing a child from the midst of a sleeping family.  

And from an organization that tries to stop child abuse:

• Highest rate of child abuse in children under one (24.2% per 1,000).
• Over one-quarter (27.%) of victims are younger than 3 years.
• Annual estimate: 1,670 to 1740 children died from abuse and neglect.
• Almost five children die every day from child abuse.
• 80% of child fatalities involve at least one parent.
• 74.8% of child fatalities are under the age of 3.

Right or wrong, the police were going with the likeliest options.  I do agree that the eavesdropping recordings were awful (probably the cops trying to come up with ANYTHING to cover their own butts), and they backfired on the cops and were thrown out of court.

[UsernameFatigue]

The interesting thing about this coming from the Polly Klass foundation is that Polly herself was abducted in the middle of the night from the midst of her sleeping family. Her mother and sister were both in the house at the time, and two of Polly's friends were sleeping over in her room at the time of the adbuction.  They were tied up, and Polly was taken. One would think three kids in one room would have scared the kidnapper (and murderer) off, but it didn't. It may have been lucky for Polly's mother than the other two girls were there, otherwise she may have been the target of the police had Polly been alone when she was abducted. 

The garage door open and unlocked door doesn't seem unlikely to me. We have done that twice, where we normally close our garage door and lock the door from the garage to the house, both were left open. Anyone could have walked into our home and stole whatever they wanted, or worse as was the case here. I am always amazed as well (as I watch many true crime shows, as I think most of us here do) at the randomness of people who are out often at night (or sometimes in broad daylight) and happen to meet up with a sexual predator and/or murderer. And it isn't like it is always in large cities, it is often in fairly small towns where one thinks they will be safe as everyone knows everyone else. Or at least thinks that is the case. In the case of Polly's kidnapping, the murderer just wanted to take someone and did not care who it was. That could have been the case with Sabrina, or could have been someone who actually wanted a baby. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[ari333]

All good points above. I was interested in this show when I saw the  clip of it. I remember the case. I thought it'd be more revealing, but I guess they are looking to do another episode, as mentioned. It should not take that long for DNA results.

The brother and sister look very much alike and have distinctive features. I'd think Sabrina'd be similar looking... if she is alive. Too bad they couldnt at least show us a photo of the two young women. I was interested.

I dont judge people on their way of grieving. However, there always seemed like there was something slightly off about the parents, especially the wife.

Wasn't there a dog? Wouldn't the dog have gone crazy barking if there were a stranger in the home? I dont have a dog, but my upstairs neighbor does. It barks like crazy when he hears me come in the common door downstairs which is yards away from his door. Are there dogs who dont bark at strangers? in their home which is their territory?

At the time I did wonder if there had been a shaking incident or an accident and a coverup. Stranger abductions from the home while the family is sleeping are very rare, but it does happen. Elizabeth Smart, Polly Klass (IIRC)

[Wings]

As far as their reactions, anything goes with me.  I know I would be very calm and measured and fall apart when alone or with loved ones. 

I don't believe either of them killed her but the dog not barking is unusual.   The garage door would alert them and then the man door to inside opening would too.  It is hard to get knob turn past a dog. 

The lie detector tests, though not admissible, clears them for me.  There was a small glitch in Marlene's and they redid it and got the same abnormal reading in one spot.  Apparently the exact same reading twice seemed to clear her.  ???  I am hazy on that.  No way would the husband have passed if Marlene killed her, he would be privy to that.  

Edited March 18, 2018 by Wings

[UsernameFatigue]

If that were to happen to me, I would shut down. I withdraw when I am stressed, and like Wings would only fall apart when I was alone or with loved ones. When my dad died unexpectedly my mother, who was of course devastated, never cried in front of us, ever. Even years later. But she certainly did grieve, dad was the love of her life. And vice versa. 

As far as the dog goes, we don't know where the dog was in the house in relation to the rest of the family. As far as I know from the case the garage door was left open, so the abductor only had to go through one unlocked door. The dog might be a sound sleeper. In our city less than a week ago there was a house fire and the fire was visible from the street. A guy driving by before 6 in the morning saw it and pulled into the driveway, and honked his horn to wake up the family. It was too hot for him to get closer.  The parents and two kids got out, but the mom went back into the burning house to rescue the dog, She and the dog perished. So despite how far along the fire was when the guy pulled into the driveway, the family was not alerted to it by their dog. (The scenario reminded me of This Is Us, but sadly this was real life). 

The interesting thing to me about the two women who have come forward is that from what I know, they contacted Sabrina's parents directly. Had her parents killed Sabrina, they could have done private DNA tests with the two women since they would have known there would be no match. They did not do that. Why bring this all up again (and once again be subjected to the scrutiny of the public) unless they have no idea if their daughter is alive or not, and are hoping by some miracle that one of these women is her? A DNA test done privately does not take months - weeks at most. To me the only reason it may take months is because the police are involved (and would only have been contacted by Sabrina's parents about it in the first place) and the officials may be wondering if either or both of the two women were abducted, even if not by the person who abducted Sabrina. 

[valdawn]

22 hours ago, Wings said:

Amber alerts began in 1996 so it had been going for 2 years when she was taken. It was still in its infancy but they didn't mention any attempts to search for a living child. 

Sorry. I would have bet money it was early 2000’s they began. Good thing we have Google! 

[Wings]

29 minutes ago, valdawn said:

Sorry. I would have bet money it was early 2000’s they began. Good thing we have Google! 

Yes. I googled before I posted because I didn't think it was in operation in 1998 either. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I had googled Amber alerts as well, and it seems they were sporadically used by a few states (and not even throughout a specific state - including Florida where this abduction happened) for several years after its inception in 1996. The Florida statewide Amber plan was not introduced until 2000, and it was only the second state at that time to introduce a statewide plan. By 2002 26 states were using Amber alerts, and it wasn't until 2005 that all 50 states were using it. Other countries have followed suit from 2002 on at various times over the next decade or so, with Mexico being one of the last in 2011. Hard to believe as it does seem like it has been around for years. But it does appear that when Sabrina was taken Florida definitely did not have a statewide plan, so it is quite unlikely that one was issued. I always thought how serendipitous (for lack of a better word) it was that Amber Alert was named after an abducted child named Amber, when it seems like a very fitting name for such an alert. 

[Madding crowd]

I have always been very curious about the baby Sabrina case-probably because my son was born the same year so it was especially scary to me. People do act differently when in shock and you simply can't cry 24 hours a day-but I agree it looked a bit strange to see them laughing and smiling over a joke-I think I would have a hard time processing humor at a time like that. I think if some woman took the baby to raise as her own it would have to be someone who already knew them-did they ever explore that? Usually those types of abductions are done by someone who knew the mother through mom and me classes, a pediatrician or through the neighborhood. A woman looking for a baby would not just randomly drive through the streets hoping to find both an unlocked door and a baby.

I really wonder if the police looked at this aspect at all or questioned people Eisenberg's may have been in contact with. I also was appalled they hid microphones in their home and lied about the transcripts. I also don't believe it would take up to 6 months for a DNA test-I have never heard that it takes that long. I hope this family has good news but I think it is unlikely.

[mamadrama]

On 3/17/2018 at 1:21 PM, Wings said:

What is up with this case?  Why film an update without the results of the 2 DNA tests?  It makes no sense. 

I didn't pick up on any possible motive for the parents to kill her.  Why would they?  Anyone have a theory.  

I hate the expectations of grief law enforcement has.  One isn't in tears all the time and certainly talking to the press is not necessarily a time to break down for many.  Fakers always fein crying though. 

5 months for DNA, oh hell no.  14 weeks was the maximum I found online. Some labs are very quick and only take hours.  I suppose the cost is relative to the speed. 

Maybe it was an accidental death and they panicked? And yes, I agree about the expectations of grief. I probably didn't react the way that people thought I should be reacting when our son died. I mean, I was cracking jokes about his favorite TV shows at his funeral. But I was also running on pure adrenaline, highly medicated to get me through those first few weeks, and still in shock. The crying, screaming, breaking down, etc. were all done at home where nobody saw me. 

17 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I have always been very curious about the baby Sabrina case-probably because my son was born the same year so it was especially scary to me. People do act differently when in shock and you simply can't cry 24 hours a day-but I agree it looked a bit strange to see them laughing and smiling over a joke-I think I would have a hard time processing humor at a time like that. I think if some woman took the baby to raise as her own it would have to be someone who already knew them-did they ever explore that? Usually those types of abductions are done by someone who knew the mother through mom and me classes, a pediatrician or through the neighborhood. A woman looking for a baby would not just randomly drive through the streets hoping to find both an unlocked door and a baby.

I really wonder if the police looked at this aspect at all or questioned people Eisenberg's may have been in contact with. I also was appalled they hid microphones in their home and lied about the transcripts. I also don't believe it would take up to 6 months for a DNA test-I have never heard that it takes that long. I hope this family has good news but I think it is unlikely.

I made my comment about joking before I read your post. It is true, though, that while in shock you can say and do some crazy things. Your body and emotions truly are no longer your own. You have control over very little. On the day our son died, the ONLY time I cried was that evening when friends came over to help us with dinner and I couldn't find the potato peeler. #truestory  It's one of the reasons why I wrote a book that I refer to as the "anti-guide to losing a child." There are some things that it's just really hard to explain about the way you feel and act. 

I agree about where the police should have looked. In most cases, it's someone who highly desires a baby. I would have checked any pre-natal classes she was a part of, any children's groups, etc. Looked at women who had recently miscarried or had a stillborn. Hell, it could have been a person she knew and THOUGHT was pregnant. Women have done that-faked a pregnancy and then tried to abduct a baby to carry on the facade. If I'd been LE, I would've started with looking at any public groups/organizations/clubs that the couple might have belonged to and then interviewed any women who were recently pregnant in those groups. 

[walnutqueen]

The latest episode "Stranger than Fiction", about the kidnapping of Denise Huskins (that the police insisted was a hoax), shows how staunchly authorities will defend their initial theories, to the detriment of real investigative work.  They can, and often do, destroy suspects' lives in a rush to reach a conclusion they believe.

This couple was very lucky that the victim wasn't murdered, or the fiance could've been railroaded into a false conviction.  They were also lucky that the kidnapper struck again, and was caught.  But there doesn't seem to be much effort to pursue the kidnapper's accomplices, and that is also troubling.

Apparently the police have settled the lawsuit filed against them for a reported $2.5 million - a small price to pay for a huge miscarriage of justice.

[Luckylyn]

It’s horrifying that they mishandled the investigation so badly to the detriment of the victims.   I can’t believe they put the boyfriend’s phone on airplane mode blocking calls the kidnapper said he would make so they were unable to answer and trace phone calls from the kidnapper.  That shows that from the very beginning the police had tunnel vision and were convinced the kidnapping story was a lie.  Even if you think the boyfriend’s lying you still keep the phone on just in case there is a phone call to trace.  She could have been killed because the police refused to take the kidnapper’s calls.  It’s like they wanted to avoid any evidence that contridicted with the hoax theory rather than objectively wanting to follow the evidence to the truth.  The police rushed to tell the media it was a hoax ruininig an innocent couple’s reputation but once the truth comes out they refuse to publicly clear the couple.  Sending a private note to apoligize while publicly refusing to admit to the horrific errors in the investigation was so cowardly.  The criminal was free to repeat his crime because the first investigation was so terribly done.   So much incompetence.

[ari333]

This huskins kidnapping was horrifying. I agree with the posts above. You both already said what I was thinking.

[SunnyBeBe]

Did anyone catch the story on the real life, "gone girl" case? Well, actually, it wasn't a real gone girl case, because it wasn't a hoax as police suspected.  I decided not to watch it, but, now regret it.

My deal with the story is that it did stink to high heaven and it was so unbelievable, based on the boyfriend's story.  I get why police doubted it.  AND after the girl returned, it STILL seemed really odd.  I mean......both of them acted so peculiar and their story so nonsensical.   I sympathize with the police.  The couple was recently incensed at no public apology by police. But, there was  a law suit, so, I get it.  Apparently, they got a nice settlement.  Still......It makes me wonder and I'm normally not a conspiracy theorist. I know it must be so horrific to be called a liar, when YOU ARE NOT a liar.  Still......why did they seem so unbelievable?  

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/couple-called-girl-case-comparison-ordeal-film-53920166

Edited March 27, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Luckylyn]

Here’s the thing, the victims don’t have the luxury of picking a criminal who will do believable things.  It’s not their fault that the crime didn’t fit what the police thought it should.  The criminal was an arrogant amateur who only succeeded because the police he was dealing with didn’t do their due diligence.  It’s the job of the police to thoroughly investigate the crime even if they think it’s a hoax.  It’s not the job of the victims to act in some perfect way to suit what the police want.  The victims were traumatized and relying on the police who in this situation screwed up majorly.  Doing things like refusing to take the kidnappers call so they can trace it is just crap police work.   The victims are the only ones who didn’t do anything wrong.  They were attacked by the criminal, then by the police, and then the public when they were innocent.  

Edited March 29, 2018 by Luckylyn

[UsernameFatigue]

I recently watched an old Forensic Files, where a mother was killed. The adult son of the mother was the prime suspect. He said that he had given a stranger a ride from town to part way out of town, then told the fellow he had to get out (he did not want the guy to know where he lived). The guy attacked him with a screw driver from his own truck as he wanted the driver to take him to his destination. So the son told the fellow he would drive him to where he wanted to go, then was able to get back to the truck first and took off on the hitch hiker. He then drove around a bit before going home as he was stressed from the encounter, and when he arrived home he saw the same man lurking outside his mother's house. The fellow took off, and when the son went inside he found his mother dead.

Of course he was the prime suspect, and the police did not believe his story. (As true as it was, it was rather bizarre). It was a print and DNA left at the scene that cleared the son. And a witness who saw tje son give the guy a ride, and ID'd him.  It turns out the hitch hiker had no idea he was at the home of the mother of the guy who had given him a ride. He picked the house because he thought no one was home. To top it off, he used the screw driver that he had taken from the son's truck to attack him, to kill the mother. What are the odds? If not for the eye witness and the print/DNA the son would have been convicted. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[LittleIggy]

Rebecca’s family won their civil suit! The jury didn’t buy the suicide bull ?. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by LittleIggy

[ari333]

I came to read, but didn't see any comments on "Undercover Mother." It was about the young man who left college for a weekend break and went to NY (IIRC) and he was beaten and shot. 

[walnutqueen]

2 hours ago, ari333 said:

I came to read, but didn't see any comments on "Undercover Mother." It was about the young man who left college for a weekend break and went to NY (IIRC) and he was beaten and shot. 

I watched it.  Was the Mom really wearing booty shorts for the neighborhood interview segments, or were those just tragic flesh-tone leggings?  Either way, not a good look.

Quelle suprise - the prosecutor with a "perfect record" (I gave that an instant side-eye on her new show, True Conviction), was shady as shit.

[valdawn]

I still don’t completely believe he’s innocent though. But ya all that shady lying shit happens way more than I’d like to believe I’m sure, especially with a jailhouse snitch!

[LittleIggy]

9 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

I watched it.  Was the Mom really wearing booty shorts for the neighborhood interview segments, or were those just tragic flesh-tone leggings?  Either way, not a good look.

I did a double take at that! I couldn’t figure it out either. Surely she wasn’t wearing Daisy Dukes.

Her son at least deserves another trial because of that shady shit the fame whore prosecutor pulled.

[ari333]

I thought the mom had on leggings. I hope so :-)

[ari333]

I'm trying to keep up. Did you see the one with Amber, the college girl lost in the desert for 119 hours?

Edited April 10, 2018 by ari333

[Jaded]

Amy Robach Snares Co-Anchor Duties on ABC’s ’20/20′

[SunnyBeBe]

5 hours ago, Jaded said:

Amy Robach Snares Co-Anchor Duties on ABC’s ’20/20′

I saw that and here's another link about it too.  This one talks about what Vargas is going to do next.  I'm just trying to figure out the real reasoning behind this. 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5647783/Amy-Robach-officially-tapped-host-20-20-David-Muir.html

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 8:18 PM, BusyOctober said:

If Rebecca was going to kill herself b/c of guilt and grief over the little boy’s death, wouldn’t she just have easily done it by overdosing? Wouldn’t she want to just get it over with quickly? Who does elaborate bondage naked head first dives off a balcony to end it all?? NO ONE!    “I’m so depressed and wracked with guilt over what happened, I cannot live another day with this and I just want to leave this world.  Now, all I need is my copy of “Escapism Fails” by David Blaine and oh, about 20-30 feet of random rope I have just laying around here somewhere...” Total BS and bungled investigation by the Keystone Kops.  I hope poor Rebecca’s family gets justice somehow.

Marcia Clark just did a two hour story on this, and it was very interesting and gave me a different take on Max's mother.  In the 20/20 episode, I found Max's mom, Jonah's ex-wife, a little shady and certainly implying to a degree that Max's death was on Rebecca.  On Marcia's show, this woman said that when Jonah told her of Rebecca's suicide, he called it "Asian guilt".  She then said she believed that Rebecca was murdered, and that she thought it was Jonah's brother, the sea captain, who did it.  It left with me with the impression that Jonah is surely involved and it was simply his brother who carried it out.  He was too quick to come up with this Asian guilt nonsense.

The whole thing is beyond bizarre because Max's injury was a complete freak accident.   His accident occurred when Rebecca was using the bathroom, and he was far too old for a caretaker's potty break to be life threatening.  If he was considered that fragile or that great of a risk taker, he should have had a body guard and nanny.  Jonah could have afforded that.  It's a typical, but common, example of wealthy parents who leave their children in the care of unqualified childcare workers.  Jonah expected his girlfriend to take care of his kid.  Many divorce agreements include an imperative that the other parent be given first opportunity to be with their child before other child care can be sought.  When my cousin needs me to watch her kids, she first needs to give their dad first refusal.  If he doesn't want them/can't take them, then she finds a sitter.  Regardless, I'm not too sure Rebecca had permission to be authoritarian with Max.  Maybe he was allowed to race around riding his scooter in doors and around the bannister, etc.  Surely the dog was allowed free rein within the home.

Marcia's show also posits that the words written on the door in paint were actually a taunt to Rebecca's loved ones, versus pretending to be Rebecca's musings.  Basically a cruel jab that Rebecca could not be saved.  Also, a knot expert said the knot tied in the police video was a far more simplistic knot than that found on Rebecca.  This expert also said he didn't think he would be able to create the knot on himself, as the police have determined that Rebecca did.  An expert on 911 tapes/emergency episodes, etc., stated that Adam's 911 call was abnormal, and filled with alibis and excuses and story telling, versus calling to report a hanging victim.  Also of note, no fingerprints were found on anything used in this entire scenario.  So Rebecca wiped her prints from everything, even with her hands tied behind her back, and Adam's fingerprints on the knife he stated he used to cut her free were miraculously absent.  Meaning he obviously was wearing gloves when she was cut free, or he wiped the knife.  It was an incredibly sloppy murder scene and - again - someone's wealth influenced the police and DA's office.

The ME who performed the second autopsy stated the break in her neck is unheard of in researched autopsies of hanging victims.  He said the breaks in her neck are caused by manual strangulation.  Also, the police claimed Jonah's polygraph was inconclusive.  Marcia's expert stated Jonah failed miserably. 

[atlantaloves]

Exactly, and like you I don't trust the mother of Max as far as I could throw a lemon pie....she looks and acts like a straight up liar. 

[walnutqueen]

43 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Marcia Clark just did a two hour story on this, and it was very interesting and gave me a different take on Max's mother.  In the 20/20 episode, I found Max's mom, Jonah's ex-wife, a little shady and certainly implying to a degree that Max's death was on Rebecca.  On Marcia's show, this woman said that when Jonah told her of Rebecca's suicide, he called it "Asian guilt".  She then said she believed that Rebecca was murdered, and that she thought it was Jonah's brother, the sea captain, who did it.  It left with me with the impression that Jonah is surely involved and it was simply his brother who carried it out.  He was too quick to come up with this Asian guilt nonsense.

The whole thing is beyond bizarre because Max's injury was a complete freak accident.   His accident occurred when Rebecca was using the bathroom, and he was far too old for a caretaker's potty break to be life threatening.  If he was considered that fragile or that great of a risk taker, he should have had a body guard and nanny.  Jonah could have afforded that.  It's a typical, but common, example of wealthy parents who leave their children in the care of unqualified childcare workers.  Jonah expected his girlfriend to take care of his kid.  Many divorce agreements include an imperative that the other parent be given first opportunity to be with their child before other child care can be sought.  When my cousin needs me to watch her kids, she first needs to give their dad first refusal.  If he doesn't want them/can't take them, then she finds a sitter.  Regardless, I'm not too sure Rebecca had permission to be authoritarian with Max.  Maybe he was allowed to race around riding his scooter in doors and around the bannister, etc.  Surely the dog was allowed free rein within the home.

Marcia's show also posits that the words written on the door in paint were actually a taunt to Rebecca's loved ones, versus pretending to be Rebecca's musings.  Basically a cruel jab that Rebecca could not be saved.  Also, a knot expert said the knot tied in the police video was a far more simplistic knot than that found on Rebecca.  This expert also said he didn't think he would be able to create the knot on himself, as the police have determined that Rebecca did.  An expert on 911 tapes/emergency episodes, etc., stated that Adam's 911 call was abnormal, and filled with alibis and excuses and story telling, versus calling to report a hanging victim.  Also of note, no fingerprints were found on anything used in this entire scenario.  So Rebecca wiped her prints from everything, even with her hands tied behind her back, and Adam's fingerprints on the knife he stated he used to cut her free were miraculously absent.  Meaning he obviously was wearing gloves when she was cut free, or he wiped the knife.  It was an incredibly sloppy murder scene and - again - someone's wealth influenced the police and DA's office.

The ME who performed the second autopsy stated the break in her neck is unheard of in researched autopsies of hanging victims.  He said the breaks in her neck are caused by manual strangulation.  Also, the police claimed Jonah's polygraph was inconclusive.  Marcia's expert stated Jonah failed miserably. 

Marcia Clark's show brought up many of the issues that I had with this case from Day One - especially the fact that she was nude, which women committing suicide just don't do.  I am ever so glad that the Zahau family won their civil suit, and that the San Diego police were shamed into announcing that they would "take another look" at this case.

[Tenarife60]

For some reason I was thinking the Golden State Killer was the same person as the rapist known as 'Stinky' from way back then in California, but I don't think he ever killed anyone.  He was never caught as far as I know, so I was thinking that was the guy.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Tenarife60
misspelled word

[Wings]

When they said the role was secured with a nautical knot I said, out loud to no one, if you are going to commit murder for fuck sake binge watch the ID channel to avoid obvious tells.  This is the detail that will get you.  And I think it will. 

[Waterlilly]

Last night on another show "Breaking Homicide?", Max's mother told a whole different story and said that she thought Max and Rebecca's deaths were related homicides.  She suspects an intruder.  I didn't agree with those guys conclusion either, more inclined to agree with Marcia's investigation.  No way was it suicide.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Waterlilly

[Koalagirl]

On 5/7/2018 at 4:40 PM, Waterlilly said:

Last night on another show "Breaking Homicide?", Max's mother told a whole different story and said that she thought Max and Rebecca's deaths were related homicides.  She suspects an intruder.  I didn't agree with those guys conclusion either, more inclined to agree with Marcia's investigation.  No way was it suicide.

I dvr'd both episodes of Breaking Homicide but haven't watched as yet.  If they concluded it was suicide I'm not even going to bother watching it.

[UsernameFatigue]

On 4/28/2018 at 1:19 PM, walnutqueen said:

Marcia Clark's show brought up many of the issues that I had with this case from Day One - especially the fact that she was nude, which women committing suicide just don't do.  I am ever so glad that the Zahau family won their civil suit, and that the San Diego police were shamed into announcing that they would "take another look" at this case.

The Marcia Clark show was so well done. There doesn't seem to be a forum for her show, and I haven't watched any other episodes as yet but this one was very thorough. Just a few minutes into it when they were discussing Rebecca supposedly jumping off the balcony, my hubby said right away that the bed would have moved much farther, because of the amount of pull that would have been expended with a falling body. (He is a general contractor so deals with fall protection all the time.) He said that long before it was actually show on the episode. So many other flags as well, including the three legged table which I always questioned that Adam claimed to use. Many other things though not shown in the 20/20 show including the lack of DNA, including on the knife Adam claimed to use to cut Rebecca down, and on the rope itself. And another interesting thing - the dirt on the bottom of Rebecca's feet was consistent with the dirt in the garden area, not the sand found on the balcony. And the knots used by the police in their demonstration of how someone could tie their own hands behind their back were not the same knots used to tie Rebecca. 

What sealed it for me (though I have always thought he was guilty) was Adam's 911 call as Marcia's show played more of it that 20/20 did. He was totally setting up his alibi, saying that he just woke up. Also sounding like he didn't even know who Rebecca was - he never once mentioned that it was his brother's girlfriend. And at the first you could tell he was nervous as he said that the "girl" as he referred to Rebecca was in the guest house, when he was the one staying in the guest house.  His 911 call sounded like the typical murderer that we have heard many times on these shows -  setting up his alibi, rather than  simply asking for help for the person he has found. 

[SunnyBeBe]

On 5/10/2018 at 11:45 AM, Koalagirl said:

I dvr'd both episodes of Breaking Homicide but haven't watched as yet.  If they concluded it was suicide I'm not even going to bother watching it.

I saw it and learned so much. (There's a lot of discussion about it, under Genre Talk, True Crime thread.) But, I didn't agree with the hosts of Breaking Homicide's opinion in the end. I actually changed my opinion on some things though.  Initially, I thought the boy's death was accidental and that Rebecca was murdered due to the boy getting killed. AFTER all the things they revealed, demonstrations, expert opinions, interviews with boy's mother and others, I NOW believe that the boy was murdered AND that Rebecca was murdered too. I suspect that the boy's mother knows more than what she is saying and that she's right in her beliefs. 

[LittleIggy]

I just watched the episode about the ankle monitors and was appalled. Why on earth would they use those on violent offenders? That brother and sister must have had guardian angels or very thick skulls!

[sonder]

Was there ever an update to this episode or paternity results? 

“Twenty years ago, 5 -month- old infant Sabrina Aisenberg disappeared from her crib and was never seen again.”

Thanks in advance. 

[missy jo]

June 1st episode - such an obvious murder, but he got off because he was a sheriff's deputy. 

[UsernameFatigue]

16 hours ago, missy jo said:

June 1st episode - such an obvious murder, but he got off because he was a sheriff's deputy. 

Grrr, that was such an annoying episode. Though I do remember another network covering the case as well as I remember the part about Michelle and Jeremy going to a concert and breaking up right after it. 

Even in this episode itself Jeremy gave two different versions of what he was doing when Michelle supposedly shot herself. At the first of the episode when he is being interviewed by the police he said that he was sitting on his motorbike in the garage with his head down when he heard the first gunshot. Later on in the episode when the official cause of death is changed to homicide they show a report. I freeze framed the report and in it Jeremy says that he was going out the front door of the house when he heard the first shot. Usually the only time one gives different versions of where someone was during a rather important event is when they are lying. 

So many annoying people in this episode including Jeremy's lawyer, and the person who chastised the family for exhuming Michelle's body. WTF? What nerve! 

[missy jo]

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Grrr, that was such an annoying episode. Though I do remember another network covering the case as well as I remember the part about Michelle and Jeremy going to a concert and breaking up right after it. 

Even in this episode itself Jeremy gave two different versions of what he was doing when Michelle supposedly shot herself. At the first of the episode when he is being interviewed by the police he said that he was sitting on his motorbike in the garage with his head down when he heard the first gunshot. Later on in the episode when the official cause of death is changed to homicide they show a report. I freeze framed the report and in it Jeremy says that he was going out the front door of the house when he heard the first shot. Usually the only time one gives different versions of where someone was during a rather important event is when they are lying. 

So many annoying people in this episode including Jeremy's lawyer, and the person who chastised the family for exhuming Michelle's body. WTF? What nerve! 

Agreed with your whole post. There was no "mystery" in this murder. 

[LunaMia]

I was so annoyed that the show never asked if they did a gun shot residue test on Michelle’s hands. I’m guessing not since the police automatically determined it was a suicide and did such a poor job investigating. I was just hoping I would hear about it either way.

Michelle’s brother was awesome in his calling out of that dick sheriff. To have the audacity to say they were molesting Michelle by exhuming her body. Usually victims families try to be more reserved and careful with their words, but I’m so glad he was not having any of their bullshit. . 

[LittleIggy]

On 6/2/2018 at 8:04 PM, missy jo said:

Agreed with your whole post. There was no "mystery" in this murder. 

Ditto. If the dude weren’t a deputy, he would have been convicted years ago. I wish Michelle had had her brother go with her to get her stuff. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by LittleIggy

[atlantaloves]

Oh man, this episode made me so mad, that ass hat needs to be in jail, right now! I pray they get him in the end. She has a wonderful family!

[SunnyBeBe]

The special 20/20 last night called Triumph in Thailand was awesome!  It really showed you what the place was like and did an excellent job of explaining how and why things were handled as they were.  I found it very informative.   Here is the link for it, but, for some reason, there is no photo or visual where it should be.  I couldn't locate it on You tube either. Odd.  But, you should be able to watch it On Demand and they may even repeat it this weekend.  I would think that it was quite popular. 

 

https://abc.go.com/shows/2020/episode-guide/2018-07/10-071018-triumph-in-thailand

[AZChristian]

It WAS an excellent show.  When I got up yesterday morning and hubby said, "They got them all out," my only response was "Miracles do still happen!!!!"

[Arkay]

The episode in which DNA was used to find the biological birth parents of two foundlings, now adults----I find it extraordinarily difficult to believe the bio dad in the case of the baby girl abandoned at the hospital. He kept saying he didn't know his wife was pregnant, because she barely showed. C'mon, bio dad, there are other symptoms. You're married and living together and you never noticed that she wasn't getting her period? Through FIVE pregnancies?

Through FIVE pregnancies, not once did she go into labor while you were around? Then after she died, you found another baby, dead in her bed? Your bed? I know he said he didn't go into the room for a few days, but it just isn't realistic once we kept hearing about more and more babies that she had, all apparently without him being aware, except for the two sons that they kept. 

I fervently hope that these searches which resulted in reunions with their biological fathers have given them some peace, no matter where the truth lies. I particularly hope these searches reinvigorate their appreciation for the parents who chose them, raised them and loved them. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Arkay
Typo

[Enigma X]

Eh! I was trying to put something about the case from Cece's FB page but it is just not working out for me. Anyway, if you are on FB and want to know more, check out her page.

And I am trying to remove that copy and paste where I made a mistake and left that poster's name in. :( UGH! Failing. It was a public post though. 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Enigma X

[partofme]

I'm not saying I don't believe the father, but it was strange.  It sounded to me like she traveled to different states to give birth, how did he not notice that?