20/20

[Jaded]

The daughter grew up in that situation which is different then how we look view it from seeing stories on TV and elsewhere. It's a lot easier for us to say what we would have done one of us had been Gypsy. I've read a bit about this case but haven't seen this episode of 20/20 or the Dr. Phub episode about it. The Mom seemed like a mentally ill hoarder. She'd have to be sick in some way to put her kid through that.

[GreatKazu]

19 minutes ago, ari333 said:

That Gypsy eppy was hard to watch. I want to say she was a prisoner, but she could have reached out if she felt desperate.  I am torn. If someone keeps someone captive and the person has to use violence to escape... well.. I am torn. 

I viewed it as a case of child abuse and similar to cases of domestic violence. I even thought of the Elizabeth Smart case as I watched this episode. Ms. Smart mentioned how people asked her how was it she never spoke out or fled when she had the opportunity to do so. Ms. Smart elaborated on the fear instilled in her and the harm she believed would come to her family if she tried to flee. Her captor led her to believe he would have people harm her family and he also led her to believe her family was no longer actively searching for her. There was more, but that was the gist of it. In this case, Gypsy had mentioned in an interview elsewhere how Dee Dee instilled fear in her by telling her the police and other authorities were told about Gypsy being a mental case and delusional. Gypsy felt she couldn't tell any authorities what was happening to her because her mother had set up those mental road blocks and no one would believe her. 

It was maddening to me to watch because my sympathy lies with the victim of this abuse. Gypsy felt she had no one she could turn to and the one person she turned to had his own mental issues. 

16 hours ago, Tenarife60 said:

With the Gypsy and Dee Dee case tonight there seems to be some unanswered questions, like why didn't Social Security ever contact the father when Gypsy was getting SSI and Medicaid.  I thought the father would have to sign off on all of that and either prove he was destitute or else have to pay some of her medical expenses.  I think he knew, or was in on some of it so he wouldn't be financially burdened paying for any of Gypsy's bills because he and Gypsy were still talking to one another at times, and before Hurricane Katrina Dee Dee and Gypsy were living in the same town he was, but in public housing they were getting due to Gypsy's "illness."  Strange he never questioned why they were living in public housing and Dee Dee didn't have a job.  He had to know where they were getting their money from.

Dee Dee had the convenience of being able to convince people she didn't have documentation due to losing it all in Hurricane Katrina. Maybe that played a part in how things transpired with SS. Dee Dee was going by another name. She was using a fake birth certificate. I am not sure if her father's name was listed on that birth certificate. She had modified the year on it, she could have easily removed his name from her copy. If SS went solely by Dee Dee's income, that determines if the child would receive SSI. Perhaps Dee Dee did inform SS that the only income she was receiving was the child support. She didn't have a job. 

I am not sure that the father would have needed to be contacted by SS anyways. 

[NinaH]

6 hours ago, ari333 said:

That Gypsy eppy was hard to watch. I want to say she was a prisoner, but she could have reached out if she felt desperate.  I am torn. If someone keeps someone captive and the person has to use violence to escape... well.. I am torn. 

She definitely was a prisoner, she said that her mom would make a preemptive strike by telling friends/family or anyone she felt Gypsy might confide in, that Gypsy was going thru a difficult phase and anything she might tell them would just be brushed off. I don't know if it was said that Gypsy went to school but I'm thinking not, her mom wouldn't allow her that much freedom.  She didn't want her to have any friends. Gypsy was too afraid or didn't have any clue how to escape her mom. Things that you and I think that should be obvious would never occur to her. Just like when Amy asked her why she just didn't get up from her wheelchair and start walking (to show that DD was a scam), she said nothing like that ever occurred to her.

And if she had, it's very likely that she would've wound up back with her mom immediately or eventually and then she would've been at her mercy again and have to endure God knows what.  She knew enough to be afraid of her mother but not how to outsmart her. 

I hope when she ever gets out of prison, that she is able to have some kind of normalcy and happiness. And that she's getting therapy or will once she's able to.

5 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

I viewed it as a case of child abuse and similar to cases of domestic violence. I even thought of the Elizabeth Smart case as I watched this episode. Ms. Smart mentioned how people asked her how was it she never spoke out or fled when she had the opportunity to do so. Ms. Smart elaborated on the fear instilled in her and the harm she believed would come to her family if she tried to flee. Her captor led her to believe he would have people harm her family and he also led her to believe her family was no longer actively searching for her. There was more, but that was the gist of it. In this case, Gypsy had mentioned in an interview elsewhere how Dee Dee instilled fear in her by telling her the police and other authorities were told about Gypsy being a mental case and delusional. Gypsy felt she couldn't tell any authorities what was happening to her because her mother had set up those mental road blocks and no one would believe her. 

It was maddening to me to watch because my sympathy lies with the victim of this abuse. Gypsy felt she had no one she could turn to and the one person she turned to had his own mental issues. 

Dee Dee had the convenience of being able to convince people she didn't have documentation due to losing it all in Hurricane Katrina. Maybe that played a part in how things transpired with SS. Dee Dee was going by another name. She was using a fake birth certificate. I am not sure if her father's name was listed on that birth certificate. She had modified the year on it, she could have easily removed his name from her copy. If SS went solely by Dee Dee's income, that determines if the child would receive SSI. Perhaps Dee Dee did inform SS that the only income she was receiving was the child support. She didn't have a job. 

I am not sure that the father would have needed to be contacted by SS anyways. 

I think you're right, I'm no expert on any SSI or anything but since DD was divorced, her income and abilities are the only things to be looked at. The father paid child support, it's not on him to be held accountable for whatever DD managed to scam off the govt. 

[atlantaloves]

WOW that is a lot of work (not to mention torturing her poor daughter) just to get a little money, oh wait, they got a lot of money AND A HOUSE AND CAR.  I am siding with the daughter. 

[walnutqueen]

28 minutes ago, Midnight Sun said:

My dentist won't "put out" either, even after performing major surgery on my fangs.  I need the Vicodin, you bastard!!!

Moi aussie.  I'll dress as your controlling yet somehow charming con-mother, you put on thick glasses, sit in a wheelchair & suck on some helium, and we'll split the feel good meds. 'Kay?

ETA - Oh, did I mention you also need to shave your head and have a feeding tube installed?

Edited January 7, 2018 by walnutqueen

[Guest]

20 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

So, do we think the daughter was in on it, or was it justified homicide?  

I think Gypsy was horribly abused since birth. She did the world a favor by taking out a psychopath. That being said, the psychopath raised a psychopath. I believed nothing that came out of Gypsy's mouth. At once she said she loved her mother because she was so "protective." When the interviewer pointed out that was odd praise when DeeDee did everything but protect Gypsy, Gypsy did a 180 on her response. She's been coached all of her life to say and do the "right" thing and I've no doubt she's still doing that. She learned well from her mother -- and it's not like she had any other adult influence in her life so how could she not? -- and has no idea how to behave any other way. Even when the police confronted her about the murder, he first instinct was to lie. Not to say, "My god, yes, yes, I had to kill her - you've no idea what she's done to me since I was born," but instead she went into some laughable theatrics pretending to know nothing about what happened. The problem was that her mother had a long-term con in mind and Gypsy hadn't reached the point yet where she could arrange anything but a short-term con. But she will one day. And by then, she'll be free. 

I think she even ran a con on Godejohn. Not that he was any charmer, but at least with him having to commit the act, she was free, in some way, to say her hands were clean of the actual crime. 

If anyone hasn't seen it, there's a doc about this case on HBO called Mommy Dead and Dearest that's worth checking out. 

[AZChristian]

As a formerly abused child, I am sympathetic to Gypsy.  But there's "something" in her that would make me unwilling to take her into my home when she is released from prison. 

[NinaH]

10 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

WOW that is a lot of work (not to mention torturing her poor daughter) just to get a little money, oh wait, they got a lot of money AND A HOUSE AND CAR.  I am siding with the daughter. 

This may sound twisted, but sometimes when I hear of a clever con, that obviously was well thought out and well executed more than anything I could've pulled off, I have a sliver of admiration for the person pulling it.  Not that I approve, ever, but just that someone could do something so outlandish and see it through. But then I remember that if they'd put that much effort into a real paying job and bettering themselves in a more acceptable way, they wouldn't have to resort to conning. 

If that piece of shit DeeDee had worked at a job with the same grit and determination she did at abusing her daughter and conning innocent, hard working people, her sorry ass might still be alive. 

[walnutqueen]

It's easy to place all  the blame at Munchausen Mommy's feet, now that she is dead as a doorknob.  Gypsy is still running a con job, IMHO.  

[NinaH]

6 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

I think Gypsy was horribly abused since birth. She did the world a favor by taking out a psychopath. That being said, the psychopath raised a psychopath. I believed nothing that came out of Gypsy's mouth. At once she said she loved her mother because she was so "protective." When the interviewer pointed out that was odd praise when DeeDee did everything but protect Gypsy, Gypsy did a 180 on her response. She's been coached all of her life to say and do the "right" thing and I've no doubt she's still doing that. She learned well from her mother -- and it's not like she had any other adult influence in her life so how could she not? -- and has no idea how to behave any other way. Even when the police confronted her about the murder, he first instinct was to lie. Not to say, "My god, yes, yes, I had to kill her - you've no idea what she's done to me since I was born," but instead she went into some laughable theatrics pretending to know nothing about what happened. The problem was that her mother had a long-term con in mind and Gypsy hadn't reached the point yet where she could arrange anything but a short-term con. But she will one day. And by then, she'll be free. 

I think she even ran a con on Godejohn. Not that he was any charmer, but at least with him having to commit the act, she was free, in some way, to say her hands were clean of the actual crime. 

If anyone hasn't seen it, there's a doc about this case on HBO called Mommy Dead and Dearest that's worth checking out. 

Oooh thanks for the info, I'll be looking for that doc. 

I worry about Gypsy when she gets out. You're exactly right, with that thing as a mother she has almost zero chance at being any different.  I guess her dad will be her only hope, and I got the feeling from him that he carries some guilt, he's not about to just freely welcome her into their lives and put up with any bullshit. The stepmother sure won't. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Gypsy is still running a con job, IMHO. 

Yup. 

She wants to act contrite and polite and the problem is -- it all seems like just that, an act. It's not that I disagree with her lenient sentence, but I hope there are some prison psychologists there who recognize the red flags with her. 

[atlantaloves]

Yes Yes Yes, that is where I saw this case before, on HBO. Oh it is a goodie. I too love a good "con job", any movie about con men has my attention, I really got addicted back in 1980 with the film House of Games. It ran at a theatre here for over a year by DEMAND. Look for it, it's on all the time on regular cable.  Written and directed by David Mamet. In fact you can find it on this strange little channel right now called MGMHD Wed. January 10 at 8:00 p.m. and On Demand.

 

Yeah, thinking about it more you are probably right guys, Gypsy is still running a con, A LONG CON.  

[NinaH]

1 hour ago, atlantaloves said:

Yes Yes Yes, that is where I saw this case before, on HBO. Oh it is a goodie. I too love a good "con job", any movie about con men has my attention, I really got addicted back in 1980 with the film House of Games. It ran at a theatre here for over a year by DEMAND. Look for it, it's on all the time on regular cable.  Written and directed by David Mamet. In fact you can find it on this strange little channel right now called MGMHD Wed. January 10 at 8:00 p.m. and On Demand.

 

Yeah, thinking about it more you are probably right guys, Gypsy is still running a con, A LONG CON.  

Soooo glad I'm not the only one, I feel bad for appreciating a good con, but i definitely not condone or approve. Thanks for the info, I'll look for that. 

[ari333]

23 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

Yeah, me too....I tell you that Mother really did NEED TO DIE, it's a shame that her poor daughter had to be a part of it. Evil evil evil greedy nasty bitch. And, wow, did you see that filthy FREE HOUSE she lived in? She didn't even care enough about all the free things she conned people out of to take care of them. I have seen this case before, but this was a very good episode.  So, do we think the daughter was in on it, or was it justified homicide?  

Yeah,  and was Gypsy coached to act mentally challenged? I can see how she'd be terrified, but I wish she'd have reached out to a doctor or nurse. I hate it that she got 10 years when I see her as a victim. She was probably somewhat or totally brainwashed and scared to death of her mother. Her mother may have told gypsy that she was in on it and guilty too. Who knows what the mother used to reign her in

[Sweet-tea]

I couldn't believe what I was watching. I never saw the story on Dr. Phil, because I don't like him. It sounds like he's shouting at people IMO. Agree that the the mother was an abusive nut case. I still don't understand how Gypsy could actually have surgery more than once when there was nothing wrong with her. How does that happen? Even if the mother was conning the doctors, aren't they going to figure out when they examine her, take x-rays, upper GI, whatever, that there is nothing wrong? 

Gypsy was eerily composed in the interview. I don't see how she could have gone through this without being left with some serious mental baggage. The interview was strange because it almost sounded like she was talking about someone other than herself. Also, who wrote "The bitch is dead" on FB. Wasn't that Gypsy? If so, it shows the hostility she had to her mother that she soft pedaled during the interview. 

How did the mother get all the medical equipment and medications? Doesn't a feeding tube require some upkeep? It's just astounding that she got away with it for so long. 

[NinaH]

13 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I couldn't believe what I was watching. I never saw the story on Dr. Phil, because I don't like him. It sounds like he's shouting at people IMO. Agree that the the mother was an abusive nut case. I still don't understand how Gypsy could actually have surgery more than once when there was nothing wrong with her. How does that happen? Even if the mother was conning the doctors, aren't they going to figure out when they examine her, take x-rays, upper GI, whatever, that there is nothing wrong? 

Gypsy was eerily composed in the interview. I don't see how she could have gone through this without being left with some serious mental baggage. The interview was strange because it almost sounded like she was talking about someone other than herself. Also, who wrote "The bitch is dead" on FB. Wasn't that Gypsy? If so, it shows the hostility she had to her mother that she soft pedaled during the interview. 

How did the mother get all the medical equipment and medications? Doesn't a feeding tube require some upkeep? It's just astounding that she got away with it for so long. 

I have a lot of questions too, and I wish it had been a 2 hour with more details on how that ugly monster was able to get away with those cons.  Maybe one day Gypsy will provide those answers.  

The feeding tube - good question. Did she actually use it, like was that her sole nutritional source?  Or was it just more for show?  

Lastly, I hope a few of those thrusts of the knife were on behalf of that ridiculous name she gave her daughter. Gypsy Rose?  GMAFB ?

[atlantaloves]

She did use a feeding tube. on that kid....I remember that from the HBO documentary. Oh man, she deserved to die die die. ?

[Koalagirl]

I also think all of those medical "professionals" need to be held accountable.  Who the hell puts a feeding tube in someone who doesn't need it.   A gastric feeding tube is put in by surgical procedure.   Even with the excuse that her medical records were lost during Hurricane Katrina most doctors/facilities want to run their own tests.  Seems like a medical case of the emperor's new clothes or greediness on their part.  Gypsy was screwed over more than once - by her mother and the medical community.  No wonder she is so messed up mentally and emotionally.

[Tenarife60]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 10:55 AM, AZChristian said:

As a formerly abused child, I am sympathetic to Gypsy.  But there's "something" in her that would make me unwilling to take her into my home when she is released from prison. 

Yes, LOL.  Someone else was saying that because being a scammer is all she knows and learned from her mother and she might go back to doing that.  You will start to see things missing from your house and wonder where it went.

[ari333]

Wow. Last night's eppy on the NK's Kim family was chilling.

[Tenarife60]

5 hours ago, ari333 said:

Wow. Last night's eppy on the NK's Kim family was chilling.

 I missed the first part of this program but was it said why did the two girls get sent to prison (I think they may have gotten the death penalty also) when they thought they were participating in a game show and weren't aware they were being set up to kill someone?

[SunnyBeBe]

Anyone see the case featured last night about the 12 year-old teens who stab their friend 19 times?  It was pretty bizarre. They covered the sentencing last night and had interviews with the offender mothers and the survivor's family.  Thank God the survivor is now 16 and doing well.  But, still, what an ordeal.

I thought that the mothers of the offenders were rather odd.  They were plenty concerned about their daughters, but, I never caught any concern or sympathy to the injured girl, who almost died, and her family.  

I was wondering if the mental health facility can release the girls before their 25 year and 40 year sentence has expired. That wasn't clear to me. What if they recover and are no longer a danger?  I wish they would have addressed that.  

And for the mother's of the offender girls.......they may be careful what they wish for.  If their daughters are truly suffering from mental illness, it might be pretty challenging to care for them in their home.  They could be dealing with a lot of strife, violence, refusal to take medication, etc.  Teens with mental illness who are violent, can wreak havoc on a home.  I'm not sure they get that.  The facilities they are in may be the safest place for them all.  

http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/pressrelease/abc-news-2020-interviews-mothers-of-teenage-girls-who-stabbed-12-year-old-friend-19-times-airing-feb-2-1/

Edited February 3, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[hoosiermom]

I agree with everything you said SunnyBeBe. I was thinking the girls got their lack of empathy from their mothers. Can you imagine the PTSD that victim has? As you said (paraphrasing), what about her future? The one family just moved. Yah, that will fix everything.

[Sweet-tea]

Those girls were creepy. The way one of them was talking to the police.... she was almost nonchalant about the whole thing. No remorse. Sounded like a sociopath. She seemed as crazy as the schizophrenic girl to me. Whenever they get out, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near either of them. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I really do wonder if the girls conned the professionals to say they were mentally ill.  Did you happen to catch an episode of Law & Order about this case.  It was a thinly veiled story that was almost just like it.  In that episode, they implied that the girl studied how to fake the mental illness and then played it to the hilt to help avoid prison.  That's why no one noticed she was mentally ill.....she wasn't.  It was an act.  Anyway, I suppose it's possible. but, I would think those 2 girls will always be a huge threat. They probably are sociopaths, so, it's not going away.   I wouldn't sleep under the same roof with them.  And, I wonder if their mothers REALLY want them home. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[CaughtOnTape]

The slenderman episode infuriated me.  The two mothers of the offender girls were so smug and almost angry that their children were put into jail for what they did.  Hey, your daughters planned something for an entire month and then carried it out....excuse me if I think your indignation about how rough it is for them in prison doesn't really hit home.

[wonderwoman]

had an hour to kill and decided to amuse myself by watching the 2020 special "lights, camera, romance..." setting aside the, shall we say, idiosyncratic selection of films, what was the deal with katherine heigl? sweet jesus: shot at her home; way too much about her films, not to mention a song her husbad wrote for her? it was like watching a fucking infomercial. was she involved in the production? since it's abc news, i couldn't find information on imdb. abc news should be hanging its head in shame at this one. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by wonderwoman

[LittleIggy]

Unbelievable! Nobody kills themselves like that. 

[walnutqueen]

10 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Unbelievable! Nobody kills themselves like that. 

I find it interesting that the authorities use the lack of anyone but Zahau's own fingerprints and DNA on critical items as evidence of suicide.  Yet Shacknai cut her down and performed CPR - why were his fingerprints and DNA NOT found?  This investigation was a hot mess from Day 1, and the sentiment that the Shacknais received deferential treatment is, in my opinion, a valid concern.

The Zahau family has tried everything to get this case reopened; this civil suit is their last ditch effort to do so.

[atlantaloves]

Oh yeah that woman was murdered beyond a shadow of a doubt, and probably by her husband, no woman would commit suicide naked, EVER, and those knots and the way she was strung up, impossible. Good God from Zion, what was wrong with the police department?Were they bought off? Somebody needed to go to prison for this.  I don't blame her poor family.  This was heartbreaking. But man, what a case! 

[ari333]

Good point about the DNA (and lack of.) Adam said that he cut her down,  put his mouth on hers, administered CPR, yet (they claimed) none of his DNA was found. 

The neighbor said that she/he heard screaming and a woman yelling, "HELP" and did not call for help? They deemed the neighbor "unreliable." Hhmmm

How does someone tie their own hands behind their back and with bound feet, hurl themselves over a balcony? I saw the lady cop get her hands behind her back, but it all seems fishy.  The boat dude had trouble tying his own hands. Adam does nautical knots, but there are no "nautical " knots, per se. WHat?

Did the son fall from the second story landing? At first I thought  they said that he fell down the stairs. There is a huge difference. Maybe I missed it, but I wish they'd gone into more detail about his fall. The banister looked kind of high for a kid to go over the rail unless he was climbing on something and got up there

Did the boyfriend look like he had had some serious face surgery? [/shallow]

So the brother was there for emotional support while Max was in the hospital, yet he alone in the house with Rebecca.

I was multi tasking and missed bits. 

With missing DNA and the stuff I've seen so far, it reminded me of a case of rich folks getting rich folks' treatment.

The message in black paint -- odd. Block lettering on a door cant be compared well to lettering on a page. 

Dina was lucky that she was seen on that hospital security camera

[atlantaloves]

Ari, the little boy fell from the top of the stairs over the railing, and yes the rich boy friend looked totally freaky from way way way too much botox as did his ex wife, who probably had something to do with that gal's death. I would bet on it.  She (Dina) looked like a total liar as did he. Yes, this was another example of rich man's justice....they get away with MURDER.  

[Madding crowd]

There is no way in the world that woman would have tied and gagged herself while naked and then thrown herself off a balcony . I think the weird scrawl on the wall and the witchcraft book were an attempt to throw off the police. I really wonder what happened there-I'm thinking the uncle did it because he blamed her for the little boy falling. The little boy falling over the rail was strange too-not impossible but strange.

[atlantaloves]

The uncle could have done it, but they could have hired somebody to "do her in".  Somebody in that family did it. Oh yeah. 

[LittleIggy]

Whoever murdered Rebecca really planned it out to make her look kinky (and by extension make the boyfriend look bad). I think it was the ex who had been planning (fantasizing?) for awhile and got her ex-BIL to execute the plan.

[walnutqueen]

57 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Whoever murdered Rebecca really planned it out to make her look kinky (and by extension make the boyfriend look bad). I think it was the ex who had been planning (fantasizing?) for awhile and got her ex-BIL to execute the plan.

Planning - that seems to be the key to this bizarre scenario.  This occurred a day and a half after the little boy's accident (and several days before his death) - not nearly enough time to plan and execute an elaborate "revenge" murder OR a guilt-ridden suicide.  Rebecca was very busy after the accident, not only with phone calls and looking after her niece, but by making several trips to the hospital and the airport to pick up and drop off people (including Jonah Shacknai's brother Adam and the ex-wife's twin sister Nina!).

I think this was a staged suicide to cover up a simple murder - either in a moment of anger, or a planned killing that had nothing to do with the son's accident.

[UsernameFatigue]

I wish they had spent more time on Adam supposedly finding the body. That must have been some really long rope that Rebecca supposedly used to kill herself. She tied the rope to I think it was a bed inside the bedroom, went out onto the balcony of the second floor (and in these mansions the floors have pretty high ceilings so the balcony would be fairly high up) and threw herself off the balcony, but ended up hanging low enough that apparently when Adam found her at 6:30 in the morning he could cut her down with no assistance, like a ladder? Sounds like he just walked out, said to himself "Oh, there is my brother's girlfriend hanging from the balcony, I should cut her down". Then he calls 911 after he cuts her down, but doesn't check before he calls to see if she is still alive. When the dispatch operator asks him if she is still alive he says "I don't know", and then yells to Rebecca "Are you alive?". Was he expecting her to answer? It seemed very staged to me. Also he told the operator to come to the house where they had come the day before for "the kid". Wasn't "the kid" his nephew? He seemed very choked up about that. Not.

Edited March 5, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[BusyOctober]

If Rebecca was going to kill herself b/c of guilt and grief over the little boy’s death, wouldn’t she just have easily done it by overdosing? Wouldn’t she want to just get it over with quickly? Who does elaborate bondage naked head first dives off a balcony to end it all?? NO ONE!    “I’m so depressed and wracked with guilt over what happened, I cannot live another day with this and I just want to leave this world.  Now, all I need is my copy of “Escapism Fails” by David Blaine and oh, about 20-30 feet of random rope I have just laying around here somewhere...” Total BS and bungled investigation by the Keystone Kops.  I hope poor Rebecca’s family gets justice somehow.

[UsernameFatigue]

Because I was so surprised that Rebecca's death was considered a suicide, I decided to read Ann Rule's book that contains the case. The section is barely 100 pages long, but did contain some interesting info. I don't remember any of the following reported in the 20/20 episode but maybe I just don't remember. In any case: 

- the autopsy showed that many bones in the front of Rebecca's neck were broken, but not in the back of her neck. This is more consistent with manual strangulation than hanging.

- the rope around her neck was above where several bones were broken, and those broken bones were consistent with manual strangulation.

- Becky's long hair was beneath the rope.  If you were going to kill yourself via hanging, wouldn't you want the rope to be against your skin, not your long thick hair? 

- there were many scratches, small cuts, punctures and bruises on her back, extending from her neck to the middle of her buttocks. They were attributed to the bramble bushes beneath the balcony where Rebecca was hanging. However there were no such scratches, etc on her arms, which were tied behind her back. They would have been in contact with the bushes first, if that was the cause of the marks. But her arms were not cut/scratched/bruised. 

- the purplish lividity pattern was along her back and the back of her legs. If she had hung for hours before being discovered the deepest purple marks would have been in her feet and lower legs due to gravity. 

- her feet were caked with mud. No other mention was made of this but I found that very strange. If her feet were caked with mud when she hung herself from the balcony, why was there no mud found there and in the room? The mud would not have come after she was cut down as she was laid on grass, and if anything maybe the bottom of her heels might have mud if it wasn't a grassy area. But from the pics it was, and the lawn was described as lush.

- Adam says he used a patio table to stand on to cut her down. The picture of it shows a table with a broken leg, and says it had a broken leg. But it is never clarified as to whether it had a broken leg when he used it, or the leg broke off when he was standing on the table. I was surprised as Rule is usually more thorough in her writing than that. However if the leg was already broken, how could he stand on a three legged table? From the looks of the table (which was small) it would fall over. But in the evidence picture the table is upright and has the evidence number on it. If the table broke while Adam was on it, it would be toppled over. Did he take the time to stand it back up while he had just cut down his brother's girlfriend and tried to revive her? The police would have taken the pic as it was seen by them. The broken leg appears to be placed neatly on the top back of the table, as if it had broken off previously and was waiting for repairs. 

- When the paramedics reached Rebecca not long after Adam's call, she was already showing signs of rigor. Why would Adam not have noticed this, and that she was cold, when he cut her down? He told 911 that he did not know if she was dead, and then asked Rebecca if she was alive. (groan). 

- When Adam was interviewed at 8am, barely an hour after he called 911, he blurted out to the police chief "This is fucking crazy. I don't think my bedside manner is that bad-". No one knows what that meant, or apparently bothered to ask him. 

- Adam took 4 lie detector tests delivered by the same operator who said all 4 tests were inconclusive.

- Jonah's ex Dina was at the hospital with him, but she had a twin sister. Was that mentioned on the show? They had different hair colours though, and the witness who saw a woman at the door of the mansion insisted it was the darker haired Dina that he saw. Is it possible that it was the twin who was wearing a disguise, knowing that if she was seen that her twin had an airtight alibi? Dina blamed Rebecca for Max's death. 

 - as reported on the show, police dismissed the neighbour who heard a woman scream twice and then call out "help"  twice. But after Rebecca's famiy hired a PI to look into the case another neighbour said he heard the same screams/shouts. 

I really don't understand how this remained a suicide, apparently with Jonah's blessing. I can only guess that it may be because either his brother or ex sister in law was involved, and he was/is more concerned with protecting them that finding the killer of his girlfriend. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[atlantaloves]

Exactly, they are probably ALL IN IT TOGETHER...she was murdered.  This case makes me sick. And as I have said before, no woman in the world kills herself naked. It just ain't gonna happen.  

[AZChristian]

Anyone else watch the Sabrina Aisenberg update last night?  There are now two young women who have come forward to say they think they might be Sabrina (now 20 years old).

Two things stood out for me:

• They said that DNA tests have been taken, but it can take months for results to be known.  Sorry, I don't believe Maury Povich waits months for the opportunity to reveal "You are/are not the father."  If it's a simple paternity test, the results are usually back in a couple of days.  Why in the world would they have left that "we don't know yet" scenario at the end of a show that obviously was filmed months ago?
• I don't know what/why it is, but Marlene Aisenberg still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.  It feels like she has practiced that break in her voice until she can do it on command . . . as she did several times last night.

[junemeatcleaver]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

They said that DNA tests have been taken, but it can take months for results to be known.

There was an article published back in November about a young woman that was having her DNA tested to see if she's Sabrina.  It doesn't even take five months for AncestryDNA results to come back, I'm suspicious  Even if they needed more time to make sure with 100% certainty it was Sabrina, if the DNA said she was their daughter, they would have ran to the news to announce it.

[Wings]

What is up with this case?  Why film an update without the results of the 2 DNA tests?  It makes no sense. 

I didn't pick up on any possible motive for the parents to kill her.  Why would they?  Anyone have a theory.  

I hate the expectations of grief law enforcement has.  One isn't in tears all the time and certainly talking to the press is not necessarily a time to break down for many.  Fakers always fein crying though. 

5 months for DNA, oh hell no.  14 weeks was the maximum I found online. Some labs are very quick and only take hours.  I suppose the cost is relative to the speed. 

[Wings]

It just dawned on me why they made this update. They have another one in the works and we will see the DNA results and maybe more have stepped forward with suspicions of neighbors or aquaintences who had a 5 month baby appear with no talk of adoption.  They will go hunt them down,  hopefully with results.  

Another angle would be the 2 with the DNA tests don't match them but don't match their parents either!  Neither were told they were adoped to explain the lack of pictures and bogus SS number. Now that would be a good show. 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Wings

[AZChristian]

2 minutes ago, Wings said:

What is up with this case?  Why film an update without the results of the 2 DNA tests?  It makes no sense. 

I didn't pick up on any possible motive for the parents to kill her.  Why would they?  Anyone have a theory.  

I hate the expectations of grief law enforcement has.  One isn't in tears all the time and certainly talking to the press is not necessarily a time to break down for many.  Fakers always fein crying though. 

5 months for DNA, oh hell no.  14 weeks was the maximum I found online. Some labs are very quick and only take hours.  I suppose the cost is relative to the speed. 

Sabrina was five months old - if she had colic, she may have been crying a lot (it usually hits in the evening when the parents are tired).  My theory:

• Sabrina had colic, and was fussy throughout the day, and it got really bad at night.
• Maybe Dad wasn't willing to get up at night and help out, and Mom was past exhaustion.
• She took Sabrina out at 2:00 in the morning (which would fit the window of the neighbor hearing a baby crying). The family dog didn't bark, because it was accustomed to the nighttime crying.
• Maybe she was going to take Sabrina for a ride in the car (which sometimes soothes fussy babies).  The baby continued to scream.
• Mom snapped and suffocated her by holding her hand over the baby's nose and mouth.
• They live in Florida.  Anyone knows if there are ponds in their area which have alligators.  Mom dropped the baby's body into one of those ponds.
• The gators did what gators do.
• Mom went home, left the garage door and the door from the garage to the house open, went to bed, and waited for the next morning to "discover" that the baby was missing.
• No clues, because nothing was in the house that shouldn't have been.  No blood on Mom's clothes.  No blood in car.

[Wings]

I hadn't thought of the colic angle. Following this, it could have been an accidental death by an exhausted or enraged parent.  Or gave her too much xanax like Casey Anthony did.

They didn't mention if the other kids or family members were questioned about Sabina being a fussy baby.  Surely they did that. 

It would take a huge alligator to eat all the bones leaving no trace.  Not that many ponds or streams have alligators and if they do they are removed if in neighborhoods. 

[Pallas]

15 minutes ago, Wings said:

It just dawned on me why they made this update. They have another one in the works and we will see the DNA results

Yes. The gap between the testing and the results -- that is, the announcement of the results -- is more likely about generating other content for the follow-up piece. As of now, testing has already eliminated one of the two possible survivors: this has been made public.

[AZChristian]

15 minutes ago, Wings said:

It would take a huge alligator to eat all the bones leaving no trace.  Not that many ponds or streams have alligators and if they do they are removed if in neighborhoods. 

Sabrina reportedly weighed about 20 pounds.  It's in the realm of possibility that a good-sized (not huge) gator (or two) could completely devour something that size.  Valrico has lots of large lakes.  And there are lots of reports of gators in urban areas . . . when we toured around Cape Canaveral, the bus driver pointed out numerous large gators that live in the nearby ponds.  We saw signs that said, "Do not feed the alligators."  So it appeared that they weren't planning to move them.  

Again the scenario is something that I think is a logical possibility.  

[Wings]

I lived in FL for 12 years and didn't realize there were that many in ponds! 

They better come up with a 20 yr old Sabina because you are making some sense here @AZChristian.  :》

[UsernameFatigue]

I remember this case from when it happened. I never thought then that the parents had anything to do with it, and I still don't. 

What does disgust me is that law enforcement can make up evidence (ie. the wiretap tapes that were completely bogus) and suffer no repercussions for almost ruining these peoples lives, when they are already going through unimaginable heartache. And it isn't like this is the first time we have seen this with law enforcement. It is mind boggling to me, and I don't understand why there are no consequences to out and out lying by people who are supposed to serve and protect, not lie and defame. I think it was said that the police department was sued but that the lawyers were the ones that were paid? Heads should have rolled IMO.