Carole Radziwill: She's a Real Princess!

[motorcitymom65]

I believe Carol crossed a line as well. Future opportunities for Aviva may also be affected. It's not like the days of mental illness and stigma are long gone.

 

 

 

I would contend that if Aviva is concerned about the potential of people judging her for being mentally ill, she would have only herself to blame. The whole "where is my banner" deal last year in St. Bart's, the deal with her father, the whole throwing of the leg, the many phobias that seemed to magically disappear. These are the things that would make someone question Aviva's mental heath, not a statement made by Carole. Aviva is the one who was willing to show us all of this. Carole on the other hand did nothing on this show to make herself the victim of rumors surrounding the legitimacy that she was the one responsible for writing her book. 

Who's confirmed it as not being true? It seems Aviva responds to everything else Carole has to say, so it's curious she's not denying  an accusation that paints herself and her husband as calculated liars.

 

 

 

Such a great point, which I hadn't thought about before. Carole discussed the deal about Reid saying he would deliver Aviva to Montana with a promise of being asked back next season in her Buzzfeed interview. IMO, this was the biggest revelation to come out of the interview, as it explained why the other gals were so adamant that Aviva was lying about her Asthma.   Aviva then asked the writer of that piece for a rebuttal.

This is what the author said about this:

 

"Aviva got in touch with me and wanted to rebut a few things Carole had said about her".

 

If not true, why would Aviva not make a point of saying it wasn't true in her rebuttal?

Edited August 13, 2014 by motorcitymom65

[FozzyBear]

I don't believe that Carole signed up for the HW's knowing that it was likely that her credentials as a writer would be called into question. And it not only affects her ability to get a future book deal, but it also can affect the sales of her current books, and it affects her legacy as a writer.

It is a serious line being crossed.

Ok I'm going to try and be as gentle as I can about this, but I kind of did. Well before the #bookgate nonsense with Aviva. For the record I think the assertion that Carole had a ghost writer is bullshit, and cruel, and beyond. But in Carol's first season I did actually expect things about What Remains to get down and dirty. I just thought it would go the route of "your book never would have gotten published without the Kennedy association" thing. But I never expected her credentials as an author would go unchallenged. Especially when she was doing PR for The Widow's Guide, which I'm sorry but sounded horrible from day 1. These women are expected to answer for all manner of dumb shit. Alex from S1 had to answer for nude photos she took when she was 19 or 20. It's the nature of the beast. I will be clear, the ghost writhing thing is beyond, but is always expected What Remains to be an issue.

[shoegal]

Ok I'm going to try and be as gentle as I can about this, but I kind of did. Well before the #bookgate nonsense with Aviva. For the record I think the assertion that Carole had a ghost writer is bullshit, and cruel, and beyond. But in Carol's first season I did actually expect things about What Remains to get down and dirty. I just thought it would go the route of "your book never would have gotten published without the Kennedy association" thing. But I never expected her credentials as an author would go unchallenged. Especially when she was doing PR for The Widow's Guide, which I'm sorry but sounded horrible from day 1. These women are expected to answer for all manner of dumb shit. Alex from S1 had to answer for nude photos she took when she was 19 or 20. It's the nature of the beast. I will be clear, the ghost writhing thing is beyond, but is always expected What Remains to be an issue.

 

I agree that these women are expected to answer for all manner of dumb shit, but I don't believe that nudie pics are comparable to someone's legitimate career and accomplishments. I, too, expected there to be some shade thrown on Carole for the Kennedy connections or maybe even someone to mention that her books weren't even that good or any other sort of petty nonsense.  What I am saying is that I don't believe that Carole signed on to the HW's believing that her legitimate career as a writer and her accomplishments would be called into question (and Carole says as much, she was blindsided by the production team who, after Aviva made her claims on camera, assumed they couldn't/wouldn't go forward with that story because the accusations were untrue and slanderous....perhaps that was naïve, given the moral bankruptcy that is Bravo/RHW's, but it seems that's what she sincerely believed).

 

I don't recall Bravo ever going after another HW's legitimate business or career before, imagine airing accusations about Zarin Fabric's business practices, or Completely Bare's financials, or Yummie Tummie's litigation issues....for the most part, Bravo has left these careers/businesses alone.  They have, of course, had a little fun with the HW related businesses (wine, singing careers, toaster ovens) the closest we ever got was the Kelly/Bethenny 'you are a cook, not a chef' which was lightyears away from #bookgate.

 

I believe that Carole expected that her legitimate career would be off limits to the petty bullshit drama and that the show would be about actual petty bullshit drama (like who didn't go on what trip, who got whose hair wet, who used the word "motherfucker" in the Hamptons!).  However, Carole is painfully aware now that nothing is sacred to Bravo/Andy.  I am itching to know what Carole thinks of her friendship with Andy after this season, I was wondering if maybe Carole wasn't also talking about Andy when she made her comments at the end of the reunion about people being there for your or kicking you while you are down.  I am interested to know if Carole comes back next season (if there is one).....if Aviva is gone, I would like her to come back.  If Aviva comes back and Carole decides to come back as well, it might change my opinion of Carole.  Time will tell!

[comatoast]

Why should Carole be treating Aviva differently if Aviva's mean bitchiness is just plain old mean bitchiness?

If Aviva is simply a mean old bitch, then of course she should be treated as such. My point is that Carol herself has said it's not that simple because she believes Aviva has a mental disorder. 

 

Having Münchausen syndrome doesn't necessarily make you fragile. I'm not sure how Carole should treat her differently. And by all accounts, except for the finale party at Le Cirque, she kept her distance.

What I think is that if you suspect someone is not all there mentally for whatever reason (again, she is not doctor and has no clue what is going on in that head, but she suspects something), you should not engage and/or behave just like that person.  Not just out of kindness, but because it is simply the smart thing to do. Perhaps I expect better from those who present themselves as better. And yes, Carol, to me, is among those who present themselves as better.

 

I know we disagree about whether Carol's behavior reached a point where it was as bad as Aviva's, and my points aren't convincing any of you, nor are your points convincing me, so this is just feeling repetitive now and I'm going to stop here with this discussion.

Overall, I like Carol and hope she comes back, even though I don't think she will. I do think she can be condescending and well, the aforementioned issue, but no one is perfect. I love how accomplished she is. I liked her silly pranks this season. I liked her walking dress, as ridiculous as it was. I liked her party and her talking head about turning fifty (just wish she was as confident as she says she is). And I like her friendship with Luann. It says a lot about both of them.

Oh, I also liked how she talked to Kristin when she was upset (Montana trip) and that she picked up the leg and gave it back to Aviva.

I don't like her as a blonde, though!

[shoegal]

If Aviva is simply a mean old bitch, then of course she should be treated as such. My point is that Carol herself has said it's not that simple because she believes Aviva has a mental disorder. 

 

 

My point is that the supposed mental disorder (which, I believe Carole was being facetious) does not make you a bitch.  Therefore, these issues should be treated as mutually exclusive.   

Edited August 13, 2014 by shoegal

[LotusFlower]

What I think is that if you suspect someone is not all there mentally for whatever reason (again, she is not doctor and has no clue what is going on in that head, but she suspects something), you should not engage and/or behave just like that person.!

Münchausen syndrome is a disorder where one feigns or exaggerates an illness for attention or sympathy. Carole has never engaged in this behavior.

[walnutqueen]

I just saw Radzi and Heather in some commercial blurb for They're Real mascara and The Singles Project.    Weird.

[LotusFlower]

I just saw Radzi and Heather in some commercial blurb for They're Real mascara and The Singles Project.    Weird.

 

I saw it, too!  It was weird.  Kind of random.  I'm remembering some commercial with Kyle and Mauricio (from RHOBH) on Bravo for...was it a car?  Who knows, they must have some kind of sponsor tie-in.  Anyway, I thought they looked pretty.

[RazzleberryPie]

I don't think Aviva is mentally ill. I think she's just an aging spoiled brat. No doubt losing her leg was extremely traumatic both physically and mentally. However, I think she was coddled before it, and then it escalated after her accident. She shows signs of extreme admiration, then trying to model herself after a person, becoming angry when she can't accomplish that, turning on the formerly admired person, then obsessively reacting - much like a spoiled child who throws a tantrum when she doesn't get her way.

 

First she hated Ramona for not immediately accepting and babying her, then turned on Carole the same way, only worse.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I've wondered if the Bookgate thing was created by Andy Cohen and/or one or more of the other producers, who knew the ghostwriter accusation would really infuriate Carole.  If this were the case, would it be exceptionally cruel of Andy Cohen to do to a supposed friend?  Hell yeah!  But I'm sure that's exactly who Andy Cohen is -- a nasty cruel fuck.  Look, Aviva has exhibited absolutely no cleverness whatsoever.  Much of what she says & does makes no sense.  I've said before she pretty much got nothing from her law school education cuz she displays no sense of logic -- ever.  It's very strange to me.  

 

In any case, I just don't think Aviva is smart enough to come up with Bookgate on her own.  I think the producers gave Aviva the idea for Bookgate (to specifically accuse Carole of having a ghostwriter on her first book) & asked her to run with it.  And they probably promised her lots of camera time if she did, so she happily agreed.  Now, she didn't have to agree to go along with it.  The fact that she did & didn't care one bit about possibly destroying Carole's professional reputation says everything we need to know about Aviva.  And that she refuses to acknowledge this is just what she did all season & pretty much continued to try to do at the reunion also speaks volumes.

 

Aviva's continuing hatred for Carole just makes no sense.  What is it about her anyone would find to hate so much?  I'm not getting it -- except if it's just a bunch of manufactured bullshit.  Hey, Carole's basically a nice woman.  And she was the victim this season -- not Aviva.  The worst she did was call Aviva a "nothing" for not working.  OK, that was pretty awful.  But she apologized & that really was just about the only bad thing she said, wasn't it?  Aviva was a relentless tormentor.  I don't especially care whether Carole stays with the show or goes, but I really hope Aviva is gone.  Her nastiness & cruelty was too much for me.

Edited August 14, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[poppygibson]

I don't think Aviva is mentally ill.

snip

She shows signs of extreme admiration, then trying to model herself after a person, becoming angry when she can't accomplish that, turning on the formerly admired person, then obsessively reacting - much like a spoiled child who throws a tantrum when she doesn't get her way.

That sounds like mental illness to me.

[Rhetorica]

That sounds like mental illness to me.

I think she suffers from Hubris.

[comatoast]

I don't think Aviva is mentally ill. I think she's just an aging spoiled brat. No doubt losing her leg was extremely traumatic both physically and mentally. However, I think she was coddled before it, and then it escalated after her accident. She shows signs of extreme admiration, then trying to model herself after a person, becoming angry when she can't accomplish that, turning on the formerly admired person, then obsessively reacting - much like a spoiled child who throws a tantrum when she doesn't get her way.

Extreme admiration....obsessively reacting...

 

The extreme and obsessive degree of her actions and the extreme way in which she turns on people don't sound to me like just a spoiled person having a tantrum because she didn't get her way. 

Edited August 14, 2014 by comatoast

[Diane Mars]

For my part, I think that Aviva is a sociopath and that she "borrowed" kind of Münchausen "tricks" to gain sympathy AND to get what she wants. And I think also that she did that for her whole life.... And yes, sociopathy IS an illness, but, unfortunately, it's one of the only ones which can't be cured ! Sociopath one day, sociopath for life. Run, Carol, run ! Faster !

Edited August 15, 2014 by Diane Mars

[comatoast]

For my part, I think that Aviva is a sociopath and that she "borrowed" kind of Münchausen "tricks" to gain sympathy AND to get what she wants. And I think also that she did that for her whole life.... And yes, sociopathy IS an illness, but, unfortunately, it's one of the ony one who can't be cured ! Sociopath one dfay, sociopath for life. Run, Carol, run ! Faster !

For her benefit and for the benefit of everyone else in the cast, she needs to be off the show!

[ryebread]

Sociopath one day, sociopath for life. Run, Carol, run ! Faster !

I agree! Aviva could be a sociopath and Carole should run as fast as she can.  And maybe as she's running, she'll feel herself rising above...way above the bullshit. Because she appears to enjoy rolling around in it.

[shoegal]

Unless Aviva is hearing voices in her head who are telling her to take Carole down, I will continue to believe that Aviva is simply a mean, self centered bitch of epic proportions. 

[comatoast]

Unless Aviva is hearing voices in her head who are telling her to take Carole down, I will continue to believe that Aviva is simply a mean, self centered bitch of epic proportions. 

If that's the case, she still needs to be off the show. Not just for herself and for the rest of the cast, but for the viewers. She's not fun to watch (even though I was LMAO right along with Lu in that last scene). I hope Bravo doesn't misinterpret the higher ratings as Aviva love.

[zoeysmom]

I wish Carole would stop writing about Aviva and ghostwriters.  I thought it was a little below the belt to comment on Aviva's aging. I don't know why Carole finds it necessary to misrepresent Aviva's age-maybe a play at humor?  Kind of sad the only thing about Carole the entire season she chooses to focus on is "Bookgate".  Is it enough to guarantee her another season.

[shoegal]

 I thought it was a little below the belt to comment on Aviva's aging. I don't know why Carole finds it necessary to misrepresent Aviva's age-maybe a play at humor? 

 

It was a compliment! She thought Aviva was older. 

[ryebread]

Kind of sad the only thing about Carole the entire season she chooses to focus on is "Bookgate".  Is it enough to guarantee her another season.

She should walk away.  JMO.

 

I've wondered if the Bookgate thing was created by Andy Cohen and/or one or more of the other producers, who knew the ghostwriter accusation would really infuriate Carole.  If this were the case, would it be exceptionally cruel of Andy Cohen to do to a supposed friend?  Hell yeah!  But I'm sure that's exactly who Andy Cohen is -- a nasty cruel fuck.

Aviva was horrible to threaten Carole's livelihood.  But Carole has said that she knows her good friend, Andy, and crew have done the exact same thing and worse.  So, why is it okay for Bravo to do it?   Because there's a paycheck attached? 

 

I would go if I were her. Because, ethics and all.

[Lisin]

Hey everyone, can we get back to talking about Carole in the Carole topic and not other HoWives? I'm not moving anything but diagnosing Aviva's brand of wacko is better in Aviva's topic. Thanks. 

[LotusFlower]

It was a compliment! She thought Aviva was older.

Too easy!! (But still good!)

[Trooper York]

 

 

I wish Carole would stop writing about Aviva and ghostwriters.  I thought it was a little below the belt to comment on Aviva's aging. I don't know why Carole finds it necessary to misrepresent Aviva's age-maybe a play at humor?  Kind of sad the only thing about Carole the entire season she chooses to focus on is "Bookgate".  Is it enough to guarantee her another season.

 

Maybe she can hire a ghostwriter for her talking heads. 

[Grneyedldy]

Maybe she can hire a ghostwriter for her talking heads.

Or just a ghost talking head. I'd like to see one that floats around.

[Trooper York]

It could be like Bob the Skull in the Harry Dresden novels.

 

Just think about it. A deracinated skull that would spout out witty lines and comebacks.

 

Oh wait a minute. That is the part Carole plays on the show. Never mind.

[RazzleberryPie]

Carole looks great for 50, especially body wise. She's teeny, but fit and not stringy thin. I do think her hair ages her a little, because the style is very young, but I also thought she was the same age as Aviva.

[breezy424]

Given her professional background plus the information that Carole has given us via the scene on the show with her editor, I have no reason to believe that Carole had a ghostwriter for either of her books.  People can say the books are bad, as she stated in her blog, but she did write them.  I think it would be extremely hard when another person makes false claims about something you put your heart and soul into, to ignore it and not fall to their level at times.  Aviva has becomed obsessed with Carole.   Her focus is on Carole and to destroy her integrity in any way she can.   At first it was the 'ghostwriter' claim.  Now she is adding that Carole had no right to write her first book because the 'Kennedy' aspect of the story was  not her's to tell.  This is a woman who can't give it up.  She 'has' to win.   It's sad and it's scary.

 

I think when your integrity is attacked as Carole's was, your instinct is to refute and to attack back.  But I think Carole will realize (and this is hard) that she is dealing with someone who has serious 'issues'. 

 

I thought it was very interesting that when they discussed the leg throwing at the reunion, everyone was laughing including Aviva.  I don't think Aviva realized they weren't laughing with her.  They were laughing at her.  As Carole said as she handed her back her leg, "You need help."

Edited August 15, 2014 by breezy424

[comatoast]

I thought Carol looked lovely and natural in this scene:http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/pizza-beer-and-tequila-with-carole-and-heather

 

But at the reunion, I swear there were times she reminded me of Cat Woman Jocelyn Wildenstein.

Edited August 15, 2014 by comatoast

[ryebread]

I thought Carol looked lovely and natural in this scene:http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/videos/pizza-beer-and-tequila-with-carole-and-heather

In the clip, Carole say she spends sleepless nights editing other people's Wikipedia pages. Could that possibly futz with their livelihoods? She looks okay there, but sounds so sophomoric.  Blowies might be a better pastime in the middle of the night than re-writing other people's biographies.

  

Or, when she can't sleep she might go down to the kitchen, er...office...and try finishing her book. I mentioned earlier that her own Wiki page says it's due out Spring 2014.  It's almost September and Holla! - here in Michigan the leaves are starting to fall.

 

I'm sure Carole is a good friend and wrote her own books.  But it's hard for me to let her off the hook for some of the stupid things she says and does.

Edited August 15, 2014 by ryebread

[archer1267]

I don't know if this is well-known, but I just learned that Lee Radzwill was a good friend of Truman Capote's. (I was wondering if it was true that she is suffering from Alzheimer's and did some Googling.) It made me wonder if Aviva's Harper Lee/Truman Capote analogy was even more calculated than it seemed. I.e., she showed Carole a galley copy of Widow's Guide to prove that she had inside connections. It wouldn't surprise me if the Truman Capote comment was to "show" Carole that her mother-in-law isn't the only person with some knowledge of the man.

 

Maybe a stretch but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

I'm sure Carole is a good friend and wrote her own books.  But it's hard for me to let her off the hook for some of the stupid things she says and does.

 

 

As much as I hate Aviva, as vicious as I think she is, I didn't like Carole's comment in her last blog that Aviva's not aged well this season. She didn't need to sink to Aviva's level.

[RedHawk]

 

Carole looks great for 50, especially body wise. She's teeny, but fit and not stringy thin.

 

I just can't agree. She doesn't look bad for 50, but she is sickeningly thin, and yes, stringy. 

[shoegal]

Carole looks great for 50, especially body wise. She's teeny, but fit and not stringy thin. I do think her hair ages her a little, because the style is very young, but I also thought she was the same age as Aviva.

 

Carole's legs and butt are amazing.  I think she has a lovely figure, her boobs are a little.....well, little, but I prefer little boobs over fake ones any day (Aviva...but I guess she couldn't throw those across the room).  I did not like Carole's hair at the reunion, she looks much better with darker hair and I believe she's gone back to the darker style.  I think Carole is a lovely woman, with great style and I love her confidence. 

[Juneau Gal]

I think Carole looks best when she pulls her hair back. A few times during the season she had her hair just casually pulled back into a loose ponytail and it made her look so much softer, fresher and younger.

As far as #bookgate, speaking as a published author, I expect I would act as Carole did if confronted with those type of allegations. That would piss me off until the day I died. There are just some things I wouldn't be able to rise above, even knowing full well it would be best to just ignore.

[Mozelle]

I think Carole looks best when she pulls her hair back. A few times during the season she had her hair just casually pulled back into a loose ponytail and it made her look so much softer, fresher and younger.

As far as #bookgate, speaking as a published author, I expect I would act as Carole did if confronted with those type of allegations. That would piss me off until the day I died. There are just some things I wouldn't be able to rise above, even knowing full well it would be best to just ignore.

 

Thank you. Because it's all well and good to hold people to this standard of automaton-like behavior, but the reality is that people have feelings and there are very many people who take a lot of pride in the work they produce. To have someone shit all over it isn't cool. To expect some sort of "turn the other cheek" mentality to prevail in the face of someone shitting on your work is, I believe, unrealistic. 

[Midnight Cheese]

Yes, Mozelle.  To expect that the person victimized by a concerted campaign to ruin her career and cast all of it into doubt to not be negative in response is fucking unrreal.  This angelic standard is a crock.  To impose some mocking standard on the victim where she must turn her back on a show she went on for the money, like everyone else, and to advertise her work, but the aggressor isn't under any such standard, is a gross total joke. 

 

I think it's a hope of some that there are 'haters' - implying people, plural, and many of them - who believe Aviva.  It's heartening to see that people like the NY Mag recapper, people like Juneau Gal -- IOW, people who actually know something about working constantly to write under deadline for editors, who aren't self-published and are in the industry, know that what Aviva's done is a serious, vicious thing to do, and to admit to being actual human beings who would remember the harm forever. 

[ryebread]

I think it's a hope of some that there are 'haters' - implying people, plural, and many of them - who believe Aviva. 

 

I don't believe Aviva at all but I think Carole was right when she said she shouldn't have asked Aviva if she used a ghostwriter first.  Because that put Aviva's hackles up and away it went.  And we were stuck with bookgate all season.

 

Don't start none, won't be none.

[Juneau Gal]

Carole regretted asking Aviva about a ghostwriter in hindsight. At the time, there was nothing wrong with bringing it up. They had spoken about ghost writers in the past. There was nothing from Carole's past history with Aviva to indicate that she would go fucking nuts and attack upon the hearing the word ghostwriter. The only one, THE ONLY ONE responsible for starting this whole book gate is Aviva. Yes Carole kept it going, but.......well I spoke my mind about that in my post above.

[ryebread]

But she didn't go nuts.  She asked in return.  Then Carole went nuts.  Then Carole told Heather who took her friend's word for how things went down.  Heather took Aviva out for a manicure to bait her and it escalated from there.

 

Now, once Bat Shit Crazy Aviva realized this was her ticket to a storyline, she kept it going - with help from Heather.  Kristen was desperate to be on Heather's team so she'd believe anything.  And Carole continued to poke.  Dumb.

 

I don't think there's any one on this board who thinks Aviva continuously bringing it back up is right.  But Carole is not blameless in this.  Nor is Bravo.  So if Carole comes back for another season knowing that Bravo willfully put her career in jeopardy, who's the onus on now? 

[FozzyBear]

Yes, Mozelle. To expect that the person victimized by a concerted campaign to ruin her career and cast all of it into doubt to not be negative in response is fucking unrreal. This angelic standard is a crock. To impose some mocking standard on the victim where she must turn her back on a show she went on for the money, like everyone else, and to advertise her work, but the aggressor isn't under any such standard, is a gross total joke.

I think it's a hope of some that there are 'haters' - implying people, plural, and many of them - who believe Aviva. It's heartening to see that people like the NY Mag recapper, people like Juneau Gal -- IOW, people who actually know something about working constantly to write under deadline for editors, who aren't self-published and are in the industry, know that what Aviva's done is a serious, vicious thing to do, and to admit to being actual human beings who would remember the harm forever.

I don't believe Aviva. I think it's possible to disagree with how Carole handled herself without endorsing Aviva's crazy train.

If I had been Carole I would have gotten Bill Wentworth to sue Aviva. He's not under contract with Bravo and Aviva's implication that he wrote the book and passed it off as Carol's all JT LeRoy style damages his reputation as an editor as well. Two birds one stone and Carole could have taken the high road while doing a little happy dance to Live and Let Die all by herself. Think strategically Girl.

[Trooper York]

That would be a good plan if Carole was telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It is interesting that all of the public denials have come from Carole and Heather and not the people who have been publicly identified as spreading this rumor or being the ghostwriter. They seem to have been silent. So far as I can determine. If this accusation is the earth shattering attack that so many claim it to be you would think that Carole's friends and colleagues in publishing would step up and have her back.

 

Carole has stated that Bravo has filmed a scene with Bill Withworth in which he states that he was the editor and not the ghostwriter. Why hasn't Bravo shown that? Even as a web clip. Why hasn't Carole talked about that on the reunion? That would be pretty conclusive if the guy Aviva points to as the ghost writer says on camera that he didn't do it.

 

I don't get it. If this is so horrible and the testimony of her good friend can end it why doesn't she just post it on Facebook and Instagram? That is how it is done these days. Not writing it out long hand with a quill pen and posting it on the Courthouse door. 

 

Just because Aviva is a lying piece of shit weasel doesn't mean that she couldn't have found an acorn. 

[shoegal]

So, Carole should either rise above Aviva and ignore #bookgate because no one believes Aviva and it's not true and it doesn't affect her career (it even helps her career) or she should insist that her friend and professional colleague engage himself in a tedious, expensive and messy lawsuit on her behalf and make public statements that she can plaster over every corner of the internet.

Or, Carole can just go on with her fucking life because you Just. Can't. Win.

Edited August 15, 2014 by shoegal

[Trooper York]

Who said anything about a lawsuit? He can just film a brief 15 or 20 second video on Instagram or Face Book and back up his dear friend and colleague. What is the big deal? He can clear it right up and prove Aviva a big old fat liar. Wouldn't that serve both of their interests? His just as much as hers.

 

Supposedly he already did it with the Bravo camera's filming it as Carole has asserted in her interview with the Examiner. So is not like he is in Witness Protection or something.  If he did this already and Bravo refuses to air it than that is pretty crappy for her. 

 

She really has a good friend in Andy Cohen.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Trooper York

[shoegal]

Bill Whitworth is 77, retired and probably isn't interested in the bullshit.

Edited August 15, 2014 by shoegal

[Satchels of gold]

Yes, Mozelle.  To expect that the person victimized by a concerted campaign to ruin her career and cast all of it into doubt to not be negative in response is fucking unrreal.  This angelic standard is a crock.  To impose some mocking standard on the victim where she must turn her back on a show she went on for the money, like everyone else, and to advertise her work, but the aggressor isn't under any such standard, is a gross total joke. 

 

I think it's a hope of some that there are 'haters' - implying people, plural, and many of them - who believe Aviva.  It's heartening to see that people like the NY Mag recapper, people like Juneau Gal -- IOW, people who actually know something about working constantly to write under deadline for editors, who aren't self-published and are in the industry, know that what Aviva's done is a serious, vicious thing to do, and to admit to being actual human beings who would remember the harm forever.

Just this morning I was reading a blog where someone said " I don't believe Carole had a ghost writer because xyz" and I thought to myself Aviva, you have won. You have cast doubt on Carole's work that will follow her forever. Even those of us who believe Carole are debating the issue. As I have said many times, I want my housewife feuds to be about ruining a blow out , not being invited to Ramona's cooking party , or whether gummy bears are processed foods. I don't enjoy this cut throat, I will ruin your life kind of feud.

[ryebread]

So, Carole should either rise above Aviva and ignore #bookgate because no one believes Aviva and it's not true and it doesn't affect her career (it even helps her career) or she should insist that her friend and professional colleague engage himself in a tedious, expensive and messy lawsuit on her behalf and make public statements that she can plaster over every corner of the internet.

Or, Carole can just go on with her fucking life because you Just. Can't. Win.

Serious question:

What do you think Carole would do in the future if a cast member went after her career again?  

Anybody?

[FozzyBear]

So, Carole should either rise above Aviva and ignore #bookgate because no one believes Aviva and it's not true and it doesn't affect her career (it even helps her career) or she should insist that her friend and professional colleague engage himself in a tedious, expensive and messy lawsuit on her behalf and make public statements that she can plaster over every corner of the internet.

Or, Carole can just go on with her fucking life because you Just. Can't. Win.

In all seriousness, yeah. Pretty much. You're right this is a no win, but it's happening. If there was an option 3 of going back in time and smacking Aviva across the face so she can't talk I would take that, but there's not. Aviva said it, Carole can't un-ring this bell. I do honestly think the 2 best options are to make a firm blanket denial of this stupidity and then go the "I'm not going to give any more air time or attention to completely baseless claims." route or to bite the bullet and take some legal action even if it's through a third party, like her publishing house. What Aviva said is inexcusably malicious and horrible, but, in my opinion, the way Carole is handeling it is keeping it front and center and making Carole look inarticulate.

[Midnight Cheese]

I don't believe Aviva at all but I think Carole was right when she said she shouldn't have asked Aviva if she used a ghostwriter first.  Because that put Aviva's hackles up and away it went.  And we were stuck with bookgate all season.

 

Don't start none, won't be none.

 

Aviva started some (asking Carole to vet the ghost, then lying and acted like her lying, using self had a reason to be affronted), so there was some.  Yes, I hate the impact on Carole -- however, even more than her 'white trash' fit last season, this has shown to at least some exactly what Aviva is, that despite her wealth and many degrees, she's a low-rent Hedy trying to force Carole into the Alison role in Single White Female.  

[shoegal]

In all seriousness, yeah. Pretty much. You're right this is a no win, but it's happening. If there was an option 3 of going back in time and smacking Aviva across the face so she can't talk I would take that, but there's not. Aviva said it, Carole can't un-ring this bell. I do honestly think the 2 best options are to make a firm blanket denial of this stupidity and then go the "I'm not going to give any more air time or attention to completely baseless claims." route or to bite the bullet and take some legal action even if it's through a third party, like her publishing house. What Aviva said is inexcusably malicious and horrible, but, in my opinion, the way Carole is handeling it is keeping it front and center and making Carole look inarticulate.

So Carole two options are doing nothing to going balls to the wall? I cannot cosign...and I don't think Carole looks inarticulate. I think you fight the battles you can fight and you write off the crazy when you can. I think Carole has done fine considering the crazy, fucked up, abnormal circumstances.

Edited August 16, 2014 by shoegal

[ryebread]

Aviva started some (asking Carole to vet the ghost, then lying and acted like her lying, using self had a reason to be affronted), so there was some.  Yes, I hate the impact on Carole -- however, even more than her 'white trash' fit last season, this has shown to at least some exactly what Aviva is, that despite her wealth and many degrees, she's a low-rent Hedy trying to force Carole into the Alison role in Single White Female.  

And that's where Carole wins. You say that this season has shown 'some' people exactly what Aviva is.  I say it has shown 'most' people exactly what Aviva is.  No doubt in the minds of the majority. At least from what I'm reading here and other forums and celebrity websites.  That seems almost unanimous.

Where there is doubt, imo, is what the impact is on Carole. The impact emotionally, I'm sure was hard.  She hasn't "aged worse than a president in his first term" - but I'm sure it was stressful. 

 

Less measureable is the impact on her career, either short term or long. I keep reading how she's been maligned forever and this will follow her forever. How do we know this?  I've read that many people are buying her books just as an FU to Aviva.  Have her book sales picked up since this season aired ?  People who loved What Remains will continue to love it.  I don't think anyone is calling for a book burning because some whack job said Carole had a co-writer.  The publishers who believe in her will continue to help her on her path.

 

If we're comparing who's winning here, I'd say it's Carole.  And it's up to Carole to continue to win or not.   She's only Ally to the low-rent Hedy if she allows it to  happen.