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David T. Cole

S02.E04: A Whole Other Hole

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Really? Someone who is in prison for stalking is regularly allowed to drive around outside unsupervised?

I figured that was the hearing for a protective order. She most likely went to prison later on for mail fraud.
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I was thinking it was more likely credit card fraud. But then again, she could be in for the bomb thing too. She is creepy. How is it that she can be left unsupervised? They seriously just let her sit there? I have had prisoners as patients and they were never left alone.

And how hard would it be for them to figure out who broke into Christopher's house, her fingerprints had to be everywhere.

And these girls seriously don't know where their pee comes out of?

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I thought the "looking at our vaginas" scene was hilarious. 

 

Do people really put those cheesy "Always kiss me goodnight" and "Love lives here" pillows on their beds? Yuck. 

 

I would think that the guard was supposed to be supervising Morello while the other lady was in chemo, but the guard kind of allowed herself to take a break. I mean, these ladies are in a minimum security prison so maybe some of them have earned a certain level of trust. It seems like Morello had been working as a driver for the prisoners for some time. She is creepy as hell, though. 

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Lorna's n obsessed stalker...I love it!  But yeah I think her actual sentence was for mail fraud or everyone would know that Christopher was not real...or really hers.  That is not something you can hide in a prison full of women.  I think the stalking just got her a heavier sentence then what she would have received.  Although technically you can receive a stiff sentence for mail fraud (I think up to 20 years) that tends to be given to those who are already criminal.  If not for the stalking she probably would have been given some serious probation.  

 

I would think that the guard was supposed to be supervising Morello

 

 

Probably but you can fanwank it to say that Morello had the job for awhile and that Figueroa is cheap and dipping into the till herself so she saves a little money by budgeting for a single guard for these types of things and since Morello is soooo trustworthy..... 

 

I felt really sorry for Poussey.

 

Did Piper just try to sell a girl to Big Boo for a blanket?  Welcome to the dark side of the force Chapman.

 

What is Red up to?  Is she trying to sneak out or get something in?  

 

 

 

The vagina scenes were funny.

Edited by ChaosTheory

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Wow Morello...that's some serious Fatal Attraction shit.

All the vagina scenes made me laugh.

The racial tension keeps amping up.

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Poor Poussey! Her friendship with Tastee is one of my favorite parts of the show. Shame on Vee for making Tastee feel bad about it.

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I hate to be the one to tell Poussey, but the SheWee already exists.

I always loved her friendship with Taystee so I hate seeing Vee wreck that.

As funny as the hole scene was, it makes me sad that so many of these women had no idea about their own anatomy.

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I finished episode 4 feeling no impulse to watch episode 5.

 

The Piper/Alex conflict, the Piper/Red conflict, the Piper/Larry conflict, the Piper/Pennsatucky conflict -- all gone.

 

What's left?   An hour of vagina humor?   And the other Vee?  That ain't cutting it.

 

It's like going to a restaurant and finding all the best dishes have been removed from the menu.

 

The Larry interludes only make it worse. 

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Morello is totally off her rocker. I couldn't believe she just sat there smiling in court with cartoon hearts shooting out of her eyes as Christopher testified about what a deranged stalker she was. I noticed there was a wheelchair in the aisle of the courtroom so I was afraid they were going to reveal he had become a paraplegic because of something she had done.

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Does it make me a bad person that this episode made me love Morello?   I liked her before but now I actually love her.  I was afraid that she wouldn't make it back in time for pick up and she would be in real trouble.    Episode does explain why Christopher was never there for visitor's day.  

Edited by ChaosTheory
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"Almost Paradise" was the theme of my Junior Prom (in 1986, yes, I am old)...I will never hear that song the same way again. Gah, creepy!!

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I had just posted on Facebook about that song, because it's on my list of songs I loved as a child that I realized were totally inappropriate once I was an adult. (That song is about doing it... uh..huh..huh.)

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I like Morello, but the show did a disservice to victims of stalkers everywhere when it portrayed her as a hopeless romantic with a broken heart.    I understand that it plays funnier to see her trying on the veil, taking a bubble bath, etc., but it glossed right over the words "explosive device" without any explanation.    Plus it was a pretty sexist treatment of this crime.   Picture a male prisoner with homicidal tendencies breaking into a woman's home, going through her clothes and other personal belongings.   Suddenly not as romantic.

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Well like most songs of the 80's, there usually was a double meaning to the songs. But I think Almost Paradise is pretty benign compared to say, Relax.

I still can't believe that they would let a convicted, jailed prisoner sit out unguarded. Makes me feel so much safer.

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I don't think that the show intended for those scenes to come off as romantic at all. I thought that Morello's story arc this episode was a great example of subverting expectations. Previously Morello has been this cute, daffy character; but once they revealed the truth she became really scary to me, especially at the end when you can see that her delusions haven't altered at all. I'm actually really concerned for Christopher and his fiancee (haven't finished the season yet) because now Morello knows where they live and she's proven to herself that she can get into and out of their home without being caught by the prison. 

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I didn't find it romantic at all and didn't see it portrayed as romantic.  I was insane, creepy and disturbing.  Just the mentions of seeing Twilight 14 times stripped any potential romance out of it for me.  I did feel like there was some commentary on how crimes are punished as it seems like Morello was prisoned for fraud rather than actually for being an insane and potentially violent stalker.  The fraud is a petty, white collar crime.  The stalking is something that should haver required imprisonment in max security.  It was made the more moving because Christopher seemed completely exasperated by it all, as though he had been trying for a long time to get this woman out of his life and the system was failing him.  

 

 I'm not sure if this is a spoiler because I can't remember the episode order after bingeing so I'll spoiler this.  

Christopher comes to give Morello a piece of her mind and it eventually gets to a point where she admits to herself that she definitely does belong in prison, that her crimes are way more than just pretending she didn't receive a pair of Pradas in the mail

Edited by SystemRemote
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I guess I didn't get a real sense of menace from Morello, at any point.   Usually when an offender is in court, the wardrobe is subdued, the demeanor impassive.   But there was Morello, all dolled up, smiling, downplaying every charge.    I couldn't take it seriously (and maybe we aren't meant to, this being a dramedy).   She didn't do any terrible harm at the house either.   When she found the wedding dress, I half expected her to urinate on it.   Instead she took a bubble bath.   It was Stalker Lite, enough to add a shade of criminality to the character, but not enough to alienate my affection for her.   YMMV.

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At this point, there is almost no crime that would completely alienate my affection for a character.  They are actual people instead of just criminals.  Take Yoga Jones.  She killed a kid, one of the most heinous of crimes.  If I was told she had killed a kid and not shown any other interaction with her and other prisoners, I wouldn't have been moved all that much with someone saying that it was an accident or that she is a recovering addict.  The writers encouraging us to see her as a person rather than just a horrible child murderer creates affection for the character.  I can't help but sympathize with her even though I know she killed a kid.

 

Same deal with Lorna.  I had already experienced her as a real person before being informed of her crimes.  We can't erase what we've already seen and come to know of Lorna, so knowing that she suffered from mental illness so severe that she became a violent stalker is unlikely to be enough to alienate us from her.  It's tragic, not just for her victim, but for her because adequate mental health care may have saved her and the victims.  It's still unclear if Lorna's actual imprisonment resulted in the stalking or the fraud, but either way, she's not getting the help she needs in order to have a chance of success once she's released.  

 

Hate the crime, but it's harder to hate the person when you know them.  

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I too didn't see it as being romantic at all. She was clearly in crisis. I was worried she was going to harm herself.

 

Did anyone else think "The Wet Bandits" when she started running the tub? I thought she might burn the house down if she hadn't been interrupted.

 

It bugs she wasn't caught, though. The obvious prison van was parked right in front of the house...how could Christopher not see it? "Christopher: Officer, I saw a prison van parked outside" "Officer: we'll call the neighbouring institutions to see if any were in the area today." A few phone calls later and the cops would have linked Morello with the break-in, and Morello goes away for a long, long time. 

 

Thanks for being here, Previously! I miss TWOP, but I'm glad to have landed here. 

Edited by FreakyBunny
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The writers encouraging us to see her as a person rather than just a horrible child murderer creates affection for the character.  I can't help but sympathize with her even though I know she killed a kid. 

 

I see it differently.  Yoga's crime lacked intent.   It was an accident.    Granted, she was drunk  and thus held responsible, although the same mistake might have been made had she been sober.   Either way, she never intended for it to happen.  

It bugs she wasn't caught, though. The obvious prison van was parked right in front of the house...how could Christopher not see it? "Christopher: Officer, I saw a prison van parked outside" "Officer: we'll call the neighbouring institutions to see if any were in the area today." A few phone calls later and the cops would have linked Morello with the break-in, and Morello goes away for a long, long time.
 
Not only that, but Morello would be the immediate suspect.   All it would take is a phone call to the prison to corroborate her whereabouts on the afternoon in question.  
 
Also, wouldn't the prison van have a GPS on it?
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I see it differently.  Yoga's crime lacked intent.   It was an accident.    Granted, she was drunk  and thus held responsible, although the same mistake might have been made had she been sober.   Either way, she never intended for it to happen.  

 

 

That's sort of why I used Yoga as a comparison.  Neither were fully in control of their faculties at the time of their crime.  Yoga was an addict, Lorna was (as most stalkers are) sick.  Neither intended to commit the crimes they did, but it was no less devastating to the victims or their families.  I don't think we would have felt the same if Yoga had shared her story before we saw her be kind and work to impart peace to others.  While we could rationally understand that it was a mistake if we were told immediately when Piper sat down to eat that Yoga killed a kid while drunk, it would have become more difficult to feel affection for the character or allow the character to be humanized because our first meeting of her would be about what, she did rather than who she is.  Her haggard appearance would take on a more sinister tone rather than the appearance of suffering under the weight of her crimes and life in prison.  

 

It's similar with Lorna.  We meet her and she's fairly chipper and happy and helpful.  If we saw her crimes play out at that moment, she would look like a psychopath, but that wasn't the characterization they were going for.  So instead, we were allowed to see her as a person who is quite possibly suffering from a mental illness shown with her obsession over wedding planning and a fiance we never meet and her very fairy tale outlook on life.  It humanizes her so when we see what her crimes were, we are able to feel sympathy without her crimes alienating our affection for her.  

 

I don't think her continued affection for her (or any character) means that the crimes were romanticized in any way.  It was all really disturbing and sick.  She basically imprisoned Christopher over a long period of time because he couldn't do anything without fear that she would turn up, and she even attempted to murder his fiance.  She did this all because she's very sick.  There's nothing romantic about stalking, attempted murder or mental illness.  Lorna has a very romantic air about her, which is why it might have been perceived that way, but most of it is a side effect of her illness.  

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My best friend growing up thought you peed out of your clitoris so that story line had me rolling! I had to show her a picture in a textbook(pre-internet) to prove to her that it was 2 different things. The stalking scenes were incredibly creepy and disturbing for me, but I did think that she should have moved the seating chart around for fun, just to really mess with them. I actually thought that they had more of a relationship than they actually did. Just coffee, really? But yes I like Moreno, but she is hella creepy and unhinged.

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Same here, was laughing so hard my belly hurt.  By the time I was legally an adult, I was fairly ignorant about genitalia in general.  Most of my peers were, too. I mean, my mom never talked to me about that stuff.  Genitals had cutesy code names and were rarely used.  When I got my period, my mom gave me a pack of kotex and a book and we've never talked about that stuff again.  I didn't have comprehensive sex/anatomy education in school.  I was definitely the Taystee of the group when my girlfriends laughingly explained it all to me after I had moved away from home.  Very well done in the show and also very hilarious.  

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From the beginning we see Lorna as a woman in love planning her wedding to her fiancee for when she gets out of prison.  It seems nice and happy and normal.  She had the occasional sex with Nicky but that is more out of a sense of loneliness then anything else.  She is gay for the stay and calls it off when things get too intense and it is then that Nicky brings up the first red flag that Christopher has never been their to visit her.  Nicky thinks that Christopher is a figment of Lorna's imagination and it is a good assumption that a good portion of the inmate population believes the same thing.  Lorna keeps talking about a man no one has ever seen. 

 

However this episode brings the truth which is far darker and interesting.  Christopher does exist and Lorna has been stalking him for months...maybe even years but is probably in prison for credit card fraud.  I don't think she would be in a minimum security federal prison for stalking....the bomb making maybe.  Credit card fraud is a federal crime though and because of the stalking she got a stiffer then usual sentence. It is her first offense so I can see her having a good lawyer and getting put in minimum security instead of max.  I am just letting that one go for story sake.     No one in Litchfield knows about Lorna's stalking because if they did they would know about Christopher and why he never comes to visit and the conversations she has with people and the looks she gets from them would be very different.  

 

Despite a few flaws.  The van in front of the house...etc.  I thought this was one of the more fascinating episodes of the season.

 

Plus I love the scene between Piper, Big Boo. and Soso when Piper tries to sell Soso for a blanket.     A whole other hole indeed.   

 

<---Edited for typos

Edited by ChaosTheory
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I think I would find Lorna not getting caught more implausible, had the show not already made clear that many precautions weren't actually being taken due to Figuera's siphoning money from the budget. She also had a guard that day who was known for being fairly soft  and trusting with the inmates.

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I don't think her continued affection for her (or any character) means that the crimes were romanticized in any way.  It was all really disturbing and sick.  She basically imprisoned Christopher over a long period of time because he couldn't do anything without fear that she would turn up, and she even attempted to murder his fiance.  She did this all because she's very sick.  There's nothing romantic about stalking, attempted murder or mental illness.  Lorna has a very romantic air about her, which is why it might have been perceived that way, but most of it is a side effect of her illness.  

 

Maybe my perspective is jaded from watching too much Investigation Discovery.    Lorna just didn't seem all that menacing or toxic.    I would like to have heard more about the explosive device and how all that went down.

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I figured that was the hearing for a protective order. She most likely went to prison later on for mail fraud.

 

I don't think you typically get a hearing for a protective order, at least not one that formal.  

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For some reason, I can get into Morello's emotions and just felt her overwhelming sadness through the last episode and this one. (The last one with her having almost a full-blown panic attack on the phone just about did me in. I had to take a few deep breaths after that!)

 

I know she's a criminal and likely has some mental health issues but man, I feel for her.  The actress does a super job in capturing all pain and making it palpable to little empaths like me.  

 

So far, I'm as engaged in this season as I was the last. The backstories are done well and I genuinely feel for the inmates.  And I so so so hope I never go to prison because I'm pretty sure I'd lose my mind.

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How is it that she can be left unsupervised? They seriously just let her sit there? I have had prisoners as patients and they were never left alone.

That bugged me too. At the very least they have GPS in the vehicle (or just old school keeping track of the mileage if the money problems at the prison prevent such "luxuries" . I can't imagine Morello getting away with this long term since nothing about the break it was subtle, and as soon as Christopher goes to the police, she's going to be at the top of the suspect list.

 

When Morello got in the bath tub with the veil I was really bracing myself for a suicide attempt and I'm glad they didn't go there. It would have really brought down the humor of the female anatomy lesson which was a real laugh. Anything that gets more Sophia on my screen is a plus, but the way it involved so many of the characters made it extra enjoyable. 

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How is it that she can be left unsupervised? They seriously just let her sit there? I have had prisoners as patients and they were never left alone.

 

I thought they may actually have gotten the idea for Morello's escapade from Piper's book.  Piper never did anything like that, but if IIRC she at some point was on a work crew that was doing some work "off campus" or whatever and it occurred to her that she could sneak in a rendezvous with Larry.  She knows it's not worth the risk, but I think it's pretty clear she has the opportunity.

 

I love Piper a bit darker and the scene where she tried to barter Soso for the blanket.  lol.

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Over a decade ago I had such a bad UTI, I was hospitalized. Not to be too graphic but the pee cup looked like it had cranberry juice. So, I'm in the hospital bed hooked up to IVs and the doctor asked me how did I know if the urine had blood or I had my period. Male medical professionals can be confused about the whole other hole too! 

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I liked when Sophia was explaining everything that the male guard (the one trying to get in shape) was listening as well and taking mental notes!

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Gramm, they do know but it is possible to get blood in your urine specimen if you are on the rag, granted you would have to be bleeding very heavily.

But men in general, unless they have had an anatomy class, prob don't know about the 2 holes, I mean everything comes out of their one hole after all. Anyway, I digress ....

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Seriously?? These women didn't even know what hole their pee comes from?? I find it hard to believe, if not almost impossible. I mean, teens, maybe, but grown women who supposedly even have sex with other women?? So they always had oral sex with their eyes closed? They had never looked at their thing? They had never even seen pee coming out? And it was most of them, not even one, but most of them?

 

I found the whole plot so ridiculous, that I didn't even think it was funny.

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A lot of women, grown-ass women, don't know there are two holes. I've written a bit about menstrual cups and a frequent question is how do you pee with the cup in. Women think the cup will fill with pee, because they think the pee comes from their vagina.

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Hey 90! 

 

That much ignorance is actually depressing  :( I'd expect that from Pensatucky and her group, but so many of them? Geez. Plus, they use tampons, no?

Edited by ChocButterfly

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When Morello went into the closet, I was convinced she was going to take a knife to that girl's wedding dress. When she started running the bath water, I thought she was going to put on the wedding dress and drown herself. After all my suspicions, I was relieved that all she did was take a bath.

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I think the person I'm most angry about is Morello's sister. Why on earth is that woman telling her anything about Christopher? Talk about enabling.

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I found Morello smiling maniacally in the courtroom to be one of the more disturbing things I've seen on this show. She's completely out of touch with reality and it's scary as shit.

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How much sex ed/anatomy classes do you think these women get? It is the great debate these days who teaches children about their bodies and the answer is.... Nobody.

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I don't think you typically get a hearing for a protective order, at least not one that formal.  

For the initial order, no there isn't usually a hearing since that is considered an emergency or temporary restraining order and can be issued just by the police department. But, for an extended order or in order to renew there is a hearing. At least in Massachusetts there is a judicial hearing and there is testimony from the person seeking the order and there are sometimes attorneys present for the person the order is against.

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I would think that the guard was supposed to be supervising Morello.

 

 

Probably but you can fanwank it to say that Morello had the job for awhile and that Figueroa is cheap and dipping into the till herself so she saves a little money by budgeting for a single guard for these types of things and since Morello is soooo trustworthy..... 

Yeah, I agree with that.  There's likely supposed to be two guards because how else is someone supposed to park the van while a guard escorts the patient in?  Unlless what they're really expected to do is park the van together and all walk into the hospital together, but I doubt it, since there was someone waiting with a wheelchair when they pulled up.

 

Poor Poussey! Her friendship with Tastee is one of my favorite parts of the show. Shame on Vee for making Tastee feel bad about it.

Earlier on, my husband and I agreed that we'd watch a show that was just Tastee, Poussey, Cindy, and Janae.  So if that group is getting split up, it kind of ruins the show for me.

 

 

Seriously?? These women didn't even know what hole their pee comes from?? I find it hard to believe, if not almost impossible. I mean, teens, maybe, but grown women who supposedly even have sex with other women?? So they always had oral sex with their eyes closed? They had never looked at their thing? They had never even seen pee coming out? And it was most of them, not even one, but most of them?

 

I found the whole plot so ridiculous, that I didn't even think it was funny.

Well, as others have mentioned, it doesn't seem to be that uncommon.  I knew a girl in college who in high school was informed by a boy that there were two separate holes.  But regarding the oral sex part, I made a joke to my husband about all the peeholes he's seen, and he was basically like, yeah, I guess I've seen them, but it's not like I'm paying attention.  So I can totally buy women who've been with other women still not knowing, although I don't know that most of the women who were confused about it had.

 

I think the person I'm most angry about is Morello's sister. Why on earth is that woman telling her anything about Christopher? Talk about enabling.

Or maybe she was hoping that it would get her to move on. 

 

Did anyone notice who that man was on Morello's bulletin board toward the beginning of the episode?  The guy whose picture had a heart drawn around it right before she called to get the refund on the shoes.  Was that Christopher?  Was she already stalking him before she ran into him at the post office?

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Even though we had many clues in Season 1 that Morello was a bit delusional with regard to her "Christafuh," I was still completely stunned by the revelation that she's a crazy-ass stalker. That's been favorite plot point so far this season.

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Does it make me a bad person that this episode made me love Morello?   I liked her before but now I actually love her.  I was afraid that she wouldn't make it back in time for pick up and she would be in real trouble.    Episode does explain why Christopher was never there for visitor's day.  

If you're a bad person, so am I. Morello is just the sweetest little nutbar.

Edited by lumibutterfly
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Did anyone notice who that man was on Morello's bulletin board toward the beginning of the episode?  The guy whose picture had a heart drawn around it right before she called to get the refund on the shoes.  Was that Christopher?  Was she already stalking him before she ran into him at the post office?

I just rewatched this and the heart photo was a magazine page of a model or actor (I didn't recognize him) that she was using as Fantasy Husband. Christopher looks like Fantasy Husband -- and when she meets him, she says "you look like someone..." -- so I took it as forshadowing her delusions about Christopher. In a stalkers mind, his resemblance to her FH would prove they were destined to be together.

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Sad to say, the vagina/urethra confusion seemed totally realistic to me. I worked with a 27 year old (supposedly non-virginal) woman with a high school diploma who had no idea there were separate holes. Several coworkers and I tried to describe the layout to her while utterly aghast that she didn't know all of this already. BTW, keep your kids out of the Hall County, Georgia school system...

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My mom teaches highschool bio and told me once that she's explained this fact to many a confused teenage girl after class.  She mentioned she's been asked several times how they can pee with a tampon in.  And you gotta figure the ones who cowboy up and ask their bio teacher are just a small percentage of the clueless, and many must make it into adulthood that way.

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Poor Poussey.  I wonder if Taystee has really caught some feelings for her friend and it was easier for Vee to manipulate her and push her buttons.  Not that it isn't that hard for Vee considering her and Taystee's long history.

 

Morello was all the more scarier to me because she's come off as a cute, shallow, casually racist goofball so far.  I can see Morello being a sent up to max for either being found out about the break-in or setting up something more sinsiter.

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