Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[zoeysmom]

17 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

I wish I had a time machine, I'd like to go about 15 years into the future to see just how Bryn turns out. 44

I pray for that child.

I am kind of hoping whoever marries Bryn asks that her obnoxious mother limit her visits to twice and annually and Bryn and her spouse find their own holiday traditions that don't include Bethenny. Hoppys welcome.

[QuinnM]

Quote

 am kind of hoping whoever marries Bryn asks that her obnoxious mother limit her visits to twice and annually and Bryn and her spouse find their own holiday traditions that don't include Bethenny. Hoppys welcome.

Nah won't happen. The Hoppys aren't interested in anyone else's traditions. Jason made it very clear.  But I'm sure Brynn will feel the pressure to live close to her grandparents since they lost a son once and Brynn needs to take his place. 

[Harperlee1]

I have an overbearing MIL who would be happy to spend every weekend with us and who we've had to put a lot of energy into establishing boundaries with.  From unannounced visits to her really thinking our family and home was an extension of hers and she was an active parent to all of us and not an extended family member. She wouldn't follow our rules, she "accidentally" called herself mommy to my son. The list is long and she caused a lot of turmoil in our marriage before my husband started backing me up (leave and cleave ftw) because eventually I was done and my husband didn't want to rock the boat. Things are better now only because I finally started insisting on boundaries. But she ruined any chance of a nice relationship between us. 

So when I see a set of grandparents like the Hoppy's, I don't say 'awww, what wonderful, loving grandparents.' I think it's wrong that grandparents would intrude on their child's family.  I get that they would want to, but it's the right thing to do to step back, spend some quality time, but respect the fact that your child's nuclear family time is very important, too. My mom LOVES my kids, but she understands that we need quality time with just us in addition to the many other obligations we have. We see my MIL once every couple months now, and besides thanksgiving, we don't spend holidays or birthdays on the day of with her. Thats what her behavior got her in the end. I refused to spend MY children's childhoods miserable on their birthdays and holidays for some narcissist who had no respect for my family and  basically treated me like an incubator. 

 

Sorry for the rant! This might be the one and only time I've ever agreed with Bethenny! 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Harperlee1
clarity

[zoeysmom]

23 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Nah won't happen. The Hoppys aren't interested in anyone else's traditions. Jason made it very clear.  But I'm sure Brynn will feel the pressure to live close to her grandparents since they lost a son once and Brynn needs to take his place. 

A tradition implies it is something established.  I think the issue wasn't the starting of a new tradition, it was excluded the grandparents from the new tradition.  Like it or not Bryn now has it both ways.  One holiday celebration with Jason and his parents and new traditions with mom. 

I don't believe the Hoppys have ever said Bryn is a replacement for their lost son.  I think the point of Jason wanting to include them is that he is all they have in the immediate family.  Or maybe he likes spending time with his parents.  If Bethenny was willing to fight to the bitter end to have primary custody of her daughter, I would presume she knows what a pleasure it is to spend time with one's children.  Sometimes those feelings don't go away.  A difficult concept for her as she didn't feel her parents were there for her. 

[OhGromit]

First - a correction for the record--

1)  Jason was always working.  He was a pharmaceutical salesman.  He was making decent enough dough-- just nowhere near Bethenny SG level dough.  He owned his own condo, but she thought it was a dump (we never saw it).  Bethenny just viewed his job as a job, and Jason admitted he hadn't found his passion.  She judged him for it pretty relentlessly, harped on him to find his passion, and ultimately worked on him to get him to agree to work for her.  I was never clear on if he quit his job when he started working for her, but with all her traveling out to LA for "work"-- Skating with the Stars, then the Bethenny show, I don't see how he could have been an involved dad and kept the sales gig anyhow.

Really surprises me how some on here accept Bethenny's story about how awful Jason was.  Yeah, they didn't always get along, but here's my take on it.  I was a HUGE Bethenny fan back in the day, and I loved how she got the success, found the man, got the baby, and was creating this seemingly great life for herself.  But as time has passed, Ramona's words on the Brooklyn Bridge Walk have proved prophetic-- Bethenny had Jason, but she messed that up, too.  

Jason was a legitimately nice guy.  Bethenny is incapable of intimacy, and she's addicted to fame.  I thought Jason and his VERY kind, warm family were Bethenny's chance to finally experience that in her life.  She just has never tackled her damage on a deep enough level-- her therapist is, sad to say, a pretty pathetic sell out willing to see her on TV, and who dreamed up that stupid sailboat "couples workshop" that was a dumb idea to begin with and ended up as a boating nightmare.

Anyhow, Bethenny's big flaw is that she has let herself use her fame and success to medicate her inability to maintain intimate relationships.  Her best friends, such as they are-- e.g. Teri-- aren't that close to her.  IMO they stick around b/c Bethenny is famous now, they give her more of their time than they would b/c of her fame.  B/c friendship with Bethenny is PRETTY one-sided.  And Carole is scared of her.  Bethenny's only "friends" are people who work for her, need to suck up for her-- they're people who are dependent on her in some way.

Brynn is definitely going to try to show her mother that Jason and his family are lovely, and Bethenny will blame that on Jason's family brainwashing Brynn.  It won't be true, but that's the only way Bethenny can see the world.  She understands power,but not love.

[WireWrap]

2 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Nah won't happen. The Hoppys aren't interested in anyone else's traditions. Jason made it very clear.  But I'm sure Brynn will feel the pressure to live close to her grandparents since they lost a son once and Brynn needs to take his place. 

When did the Hoppy Sr.s ever demand anything? I never heard them ask to spend every weekend with Jason/Bryn/Bethenny and I never heard Jason demand it either. We didn't see the Hoppy's with them every weekend on Bethenny EA show either. The only one that has ever made that claim was Bethenny and Sorry, Not, I don't trust what she says because of things like "homeless" and "no man" in her life, even though we all know she was, at best, exaggerating if not outright lying when she said these things. Bethenny loves to blowing things out of proportion to make others look nefarious, on purpose. 

[QuinnM]

Quote

When did the Hoppy Sr.s ever demand anything? I never heard them ask to spend every weekend with Jason/Bryn/Bethenny and I never heard Jason demand it either. We didn't see the Hoppy's with them every weekend on Bethenny EA show either. The only one that has ever made that claim was Bethenny and Sorry,

No it was filmed and shown. The old forum went on fire. It was quite the fight. He said every weekend. She said what about every other. I work all week and would like time that isn't packing and driving. I think she said eight hours and we nearly needed a separate thread to discuss eight hours. He said if she wanted to go out with her friends then he could just take Brynn up without her. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

No it was filmed and shown. The old forum went on fire. It was quite the fight. He said every weekend. She said what about every other. I work all week and would like time that isn't packing and driving. I think she said eight hours and we nearly needed a separate thread to discuss eight hours. He said if she wanted to go out with her friends then he could just take Brynn up without her. 

I watched her spin off show but don't remember him demanding it. The Hoppy Sr.'s though never demanded anything, so to assign blame to them is ridiculous, as is saying that didn't want to embrace any "new" traditions because they never said that either. Was Jason an ass at times, Yes he was, but so was Bethenny. Both of them failed at marriage, not just 1, but both.

[breezy424]

6 hours ago, OhGromit said:

First - a correction for the record--

1)  Jason was always working.  He was a pharmaceutical salesman.  He was making decent enough dough-- just nowhere near Bethenny SG level dough.  He owned his own condo, but she thought it was a dump (we never saw it).  Bethenny just viewed his job as a job, and Jason admitted he hadn't found his passion.  She judged him for it pretty relentlessly, harped on him to find his passion, and ultimately worked on him to get him to agree to work for her.  I was never clear on if he quit his job when he started working for her, but with all her traveling out to LA for "work"-- Skating with the Stars, then the Bethenny show, I don't see how he could have been an involved dad and kept the sales gig anyhow.

Really surprises me how some on here accept Bethenny's story about how awful Jason was.  Yeah, they didn't always get along, but here's my take on it.  I was a HUGE Bethenny fan back in the day, and I loved how she got the success, found the man, got the baby, and was creating this seemingly great life for herself.  But as time has passed, Ramona's words on the Brooklyn Bridge Walk have proved prophetic-- Bethenny had Jason, but she messed that up, too.  

Jason was a legitimately nice guy.  Bethenny is incapable of intimacy, and she's addicted to fame.  I thought Jason and his VERY kind, warm family were Bethenny's chance to finally experience that in her life.  She just has never tackled her damage on a deep enough level-- her therapist is, sad to say, a pretty pathetic sell out willing to see her on TV, and who dreamed up that stupid sailboat "couples workshop" that was a dumb idea to begin with and ended up as a boating nightmare.

Anyhow, Bethenny's big flaw is that she has let herself use her fame and success to medicate her inability to maintain intimate relationships.  Her best friends, such as they are-- e.g. Teri-- aren't that close to her.  IMO they stick around b/c Bethenny is famous now, they give her more of their time than they would b/c of her fame.  B/c friendship with Bethenny is PRETTY one-sided.  And Carole is scared of her.  Bethenny's only "friends" are people who work for her, need to suck up for her-- they're people who are dependent on her in some way.

Brynn is definitely going to try to show her mother that Jason and his family are lovely, and Bethenny will blame that on Jason's family brainwashing Brynn.  It won't be true, but that's the only way Bethenny can see the world.  She understands power,but not love.

Applause!!!!

[breezy424]

Beth was raised by wolves and expects everyone else to understand her needs.

The Hoppys' lost a child.   Maybe Beth, if she gave it any thought and I doubt that she ever has or will, would understand the significance and life altering affect this has on a parent.  Losing a child would be the absolute worst thing that could happen to me as a parent.  I don't care how old your child is, it's absolutely the most devastating that can happen and it changes you as a parent and as a person forever.  Having that experience, you treasure every moment because you 'know' it can end in an instant.  Beth was never sensitive to that.

Jason lost his brother.  He gets it.  He understands the importance of family.  I never seen or heard Jason's parents demand anything.  Beth had a bevy of employees in their home every day.  His only demand was that everyone was to be out by six.  He wanted his parents to be a part of their life.  Beth wanted them to start new holiday traditions of their own that didn't include his parents.   Heck, I've been through a lot of holidays with relatives that I didn't particularly like but that was just 'cold'. 

Beth always has to be in control.  The employees being there were her choice.  Jason's parents were not.  She never could, and continues, not to see that grandparents being around is a good thing for her child.  Nope.  She chose a nanny to be her child's godparent.  She doesn't get that a loving grandparent is going to be there always.  It's called unconditional love.

And her comment in this week's episode regarding if something happened to her,  'they' would have her always and this is her worst nightmare is so telling about Bethenny Frankel.  Some have suggested that it was about money.  Nope.  If Beth dies, Bryn's inheritance is set up as a trust fund with a lawyer in charge of it.  I have no doubt about this and I don't buy for a second that it's any other way.  Bethenny Frankel has very serious issues.  In her mind, she is a victim.  She can't deal with the fact that she is not all that different from the rest of world because she would then have to look in the mirror and see herself.  Her life is the way it is because of her, not anyone else.  It's very sad. 

[WireWrap]

23 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

I agree with all, except I have one quibble:

I do think you are spot on with what is Bethenny's issues. I think she wanted to make the marriage work, if it could be on her terms yet I also saw some glimmers that given time, she just might could make some changes and not have it all on her terms. I think Jason fought hard for the marriage and tried to work his way into seeing Bethenny's view and again, given time I think he would have been able to give in to Bethenny's terms more. Where it gets murky for me is that one, Bethenny ultimately had motives, and she wasn't going to stick around and thought she had found some back woods people she could steam roll and she was going to control the narrative of what Bryn did and didn't do, minus Jason. What she didn't plan on was Jason being a Daddy Bear. He was NOT losing his daughter. So the chaos of the divorce came about. I think everything Jason did in the divorce, even the odd things, was to make sure that there was no way he was going to loose Bryn. 

My quibble related to the murky part above...I do think Jason's family is a warm loving family and yet, his mother is bat shit crazy. I do think she wanted Bryn as a replacement child. I think she never got over losing her other son. I think Bethenny's life would have been hell with her as a mother in law. I think Jason's life is consumed with guilt, from his mother and that is not good . I had the hairs on the back of my neck stand up when his mother said You're home! You're home! to Bryn when they got to their house in PA. That woman wanted to take over that child, I have no doubts about it what so ever. 

Ultimately I think that Bethenny's conniving ways, wanting damage to be part of her schtick and Jason's semi normalness combined with the crazy for a kid mother, led to the demise of their marriage. 

I blame Bethenny mostly, but I blame Jason for not using a condom ultimately. I just hate that there is a child involved. Somewhere between the mostly and ultimately parts sits a really big deal and her name is Jason's bat shit crazy mother. 

Did Mrs. Hoppy say that to only Bryn or to Jason, Bethenny and Bryn? IMO, it was the latter. Also, most grandparents "take over" their grandchildren when they come for a visit, it is one of the joys of being a grandparent, to spend time spoiling them. LOL One of the greatest joys of being a grandparent is being able to spend time with your grandkids doing what they want to do because it's not your job to raise them, it's your job to treasure them with all your time, love and energy. And I am here to tell you, how you act with grandkids is very different than how you acted raising your own kids. LOL

Edited July 4, 2016 by WireWrap

[Granimal]

Like attracts like IMO. I don't think that there is a hero or a villain in this divorce (personally). Just two people with flawed personalities that couldn't (and didn't seem to try to) make things work. I don't care for B, but I don't think that Jason deserves much more than he's already gotten. I think both of them got into the marriage for horrible (one could almost say fraudulent) reasons. Their self-awareness may be too low to realize that though.

[breezy424]

I don't know how anyone gets over losing a child and I don't see how one child can 'ever' replace another.  That's just beyond me....

Telling a child that 'your'e home' is telling them this is a safe place and you are 'loved'. 

As far as Jason goes - it can appear to be a thin line between guilt and appreciating what you have and cherishing it. I think Jason appreciated it.  He never gave the impression to me that he was doing anything regarding his parents out of guilt.  Heck, Jason could have said a lot of things (and get a big check) about his divorce and marriage to Bethenny Frankel but he hasn't uttered a word.  That says a lot about him....as a person and especially as a father.

[CrinkleCutCat]

I think Bethenny consciously, or unconsciously, doesn't want Bryn to love anyone else more than her. I think she resents how much love Jason and his parents bestow on Bryn and feels threatened by that. All issues and arguments regarding holidays and how much time is spent with family stem from this fear. Bethenny just doesn't want to share Bryn and Bryn's love with Jason's family. Paid staff are another matter because Bethenny doesn't need to fear Bryn loving them too much: they aren't around for long enough and Bethenny has the power to remove them from Bryn's life. That's how I see it anyway.

Edited July 4, 2016 by CrinkleCutCat

[WireWrap]

3 hours ago, CrinkleCutCat said:

I think Bethenny consciously, or unconsciously, doesn't want Bryn to love anyone else more than her. I think she resents how much love Jason and his parents bestow on Bryn and feels threatened by that. All issues and arguments regarding holidays and how much time is spent with family stem from this fear. Bethenny just doesn't want to share Bryn and Bryn's love with Jason's family. Paid staff are another matter because Bethenny doesn't need to fear Bryn loving them too much: they aren't around for long enough and Bethenny has the power to remove them from Bryn's life. That's how I see it anyway.

I agree except for 1 thing. I think Bethenny doesn't want Bryn to love her father or be as close to him as she is her. It's not a fear of Bryn loving him more, it is that she will love them equally, Bethenny has to be loved more that Jason, she has to be closer to Bryn than Jason, Bethenny has to be first in Bryn's life at all times.

[WireWrap]

5 hours ago, stewedsquash said:

She said it to only Bryn.  She gobbled her up and said it to only Bryn.

I am a gammaw [what the most perfect little granddaughter calls me] and believe me, I could eat her up all day every day. But I know she is not my child, I don't guilt my son into letting me see her whenever I want, I don't want her to be my child. Jason's mother is off in the head regarding Bryn. I will believe that forever.

Something we have to remember about the footage with the Hoppy's is production and the editing monkeys that make scenes fit into the storyline they (production) want us to see. Bryn was an infant/baby when they went back to Pa for the show, Jason's mom was talking to all of them, not just Bryn. Now had the Hoppy Sr.'s sold their home in Pa. and moved lock, stock and barrel to NYC I would agree that they were over stepping themselves, otherwise, I disagree that she was trying to take over as Bryn's mom.

Congrats! Being a Grammy/Gammaw is so much fun! Grandkids are the "Icing" on the cake of life! LOL

[WireWrap]

47 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

Nope, no editing, it was her talking directly to Bryn. Ran to the car and scooped her up, weirdly said what she said. I think I remember her even immediately being self aware and realizing what she said and corrected it. But the underlying obsession with Bryn was and is there. I was raised by a woman who had the same tendencies as Jason's mother. Perfectly normal women, loving, nurturing, yet they are emotional damagers. I lived it, I still live it. Don't downplay was subtle, long term, emotional guilt can do to a person. [general you, not you you]. 

Oh, no! I am disagreeing with a poster who I almost always agree with! I need it's her fault! Or is it the other's fault? Hmm, RAMONA! Ramona! RA MOAN NAHHH! I need you show me how to fix this! 

LOL, No problem. We can see this differently and still agree on most other things, it keeps us on our toes! LOL

Please don't invoke that Name 3 times in a row, I am afraid she will pop up somewhere near one of us like BettleJuice and wreck havoc in our lives! LOL

[WireWrap]

31 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

You have to have it BeetleRamona BeetleRamona Bee....scared ya didn't I? 

For what it's worth, I have a screwed up mother daughter relationship so bad that I prayed for boys, never wanted a girl. I adore my three sweeties who are in my sons lives and absolutely adore my one grandchild, a girl. I get all the happy, none of the angst mother daughter mess with the girls in my life and I LOVE it. I never wanted a daughter to feel about me, what I feel about my own mother. My mother even tries to mess with that, but thankfully, having not been raised around her, they can see it. Finally, someone can see the crazy! Ahem, did that sound like Bethenny? What have I become??

When our GD was born and the kids would visit, I would bum rush the car and hold my arms out for our GD and the first thing I said a couple of times was "There's my girl"! I only did it about 3 or 4 times before I noticed my DIL's face and I stopped myself right away before anyone had to say anything to me. ((cringe)) I then switched it up to "There's my munchkin"! This made our DIL happier. LOL Although, she did say that she knew/realized that I didn't mean my daughter when I said it. Hopefully the "Your home" only happened that 1 time with Carole Hoppy and that she corrected herself like I did me, like most MILs do when their DIL feels they have over stepped their place. I just don't see Bethenny being quiet about it if it bothered her though, she would correct her right there and then IMO.

[OhGromit]

20 hours ago, stewedsquash said:

I agree with all, except I have one quibble:

I do think you are spot on with what is Bethenny's issues. I think she wanted to make the marriage work, if it could be on her terms yet I also saw some glimmers that given time, she just might could make some changes and not have it all on her terms. I think Jason fought hard for the marriage and tried to work his way into seeing Bethenny's view and again, given time I think he would have been able to give in to Bethenny's terms more. Where it gets murky for me is that one, Bethenny ultimately had motives, and she wasn't going to stick around and thought she had found some back woods people she could steam roll and she was going to control the narrative of what Bryn did and didn't do, minus Jason. What she didn't plan on was Jason being a Daddy Bear. He was NOT losing his daughter. So the chaos of the divorce came about. I think everything Jason did in the divorce, even the odd things, was to make sure that there was no way he was going to lose Bryn. 

My quibble related to the murky part above...I do think Jason's family is a warm loving family and yet, his mother is bat shit crazy. I do think she wanted Bryn as a replacement child. I think she never got over losing her other son. I think Bethenny's life would have been hell with her as a mother in law. I think Jason's life is consumed with guilt, from his mother and that is not good . I had the hairs on the back of my neck stand up when his mother said You're home! You're home! to Bryn when they got to their house in PA. That woman wanted to take over that child, I have no doubts about it what so ever. 

Ultimately I think that Bethenny's conniving ways, wanting damage to be part of her schtick and Jason's semi normalness combined with the crazy for a kid mother, led to the demise of their marriage. 

I blame Bethenny mostly, but I blame Jason for not using a condom ultimately. I just hate that there is a child involved. Somewhere between the mostly and ultimately parts sits a really big deal and her name is Jason's bat shit crazy mother. 

I gotta disagree with you on the mom!  First of all, both the mom AND the dad were really attached to Brynn.  So if you go there with the mom, you gotta be even handed and call the dad out for the same thing.  BOTH of them were saying things about keeping Brynn with them over the summer, what have you-- not just the mom.

Second, I'm gonna disagree with you halvsy-halvsy.  The mom and the dad both lost a child.  The problem was that they seemed to have a lot more grieving to do-- i.e. not that you ever get over it, but I think they kept avoiding finishing off more grief by keeping way way attached to Jason, and then Brynn.  I'm NOT saying you ever "get over it"-- I'm saying their unfinished grief made them WAY more clingy than they would have been.  

BUT I really don't think they were nuts, and I can't go there with you on the mom being "nuts" or "out of her mind", definitely not.  Did she say that one thing?  Yes.  Was Brynn only 6 months old and unable to understand?  Yes.  Dude.  The mom was overenthusiastic, that's it.  She was SUPER lovely at all times, warm, and VERY kind to Bethenny.  They agreed with Bethenny that B and Jason needed to create their own traditions.  Hence, first Thanksgiving was at Bethenny's pad (and Bethenny had a melt down over the oven).  But the mom did so many cool things to show her support for Bethenny, they attended Bethenny's talks in Philly and Jersey, all kinds of stuff.  The mom is not a crazy biotch.

Just the mom and the dad were too clingy b/c they didn't do as much grieving as their hearts still had in them for their lost son.  And Jason enabled them a bit by visiting all the time.  he freaked out on Bethenny for wanting to set boundaries with his folks, because he was part of their enablement-- Jason needed to take a step back, too, but he was too enmeshed with his parents' grief and his desire to save them from it.

A little GOOD therapy with the whole gang could've done them all a lot of good.

Anyhow, had to say my piece on the mom, cause she was a sweet lady (her flaws duly noted).

And if we compare with Brynn's OTHER grandparents, uh... don't even get started on that, right?  

[zoeysmom]

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 3:44 PM, WireWrap said:

Sr.s ever demand anything? I never heard them ask to spend every weekend with Jason/Bryn/Bethenny and I never heard Jason demand it either. We didn't see the Hoppy's with them every weekend on Bethenny EA show either. The only one that has ever made that claim was Bethenny and Sorry, Not, I don't trust what she says because of things like "homeless" and "no man" in her life, even though we all know she was, at best, exaggerating if not outright lying when she said these things. Bethenny loves to blowing things out of proportion to make others look nefarious, on purpose. 

I think the bigger issue wasn't the amount of time devoted to the Hoppys but had more to do with the fact she wanted to move to LA.  It would have been better/good for her career but bad for the family dynamic. 

 

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 4:12 PM, QuinnM said:

No it was filmed and shown. The old forum went on fire. It was quite the fight. He said every weekend. She said what about every other. I work all week and would like time that isn't packing and driving. I think she said eight hours and we nearly needed a separate thread to discuss eight hours. He said if she wanted to go out with her friends then he could just take Brynn up without her. 

I can see the two of them having that discussion.  I don't think that was the deal breaker for the two of them, or the senior Hoppys are to blame.  Bethenny apparently through sources made the statement the Hoppys never really accepted her.  I think they did accept her for the screaming shrew she was and is.  I think it is difficult for people who seemingly have a loving respectful relationship to watch their child wrapped up in the relationship that lacks respect.  Bethenny said her reason for leaving the marriage was that Jason didn't respect her and she was the breadwinner (rub more salt in the wounds) he worked, just not at the level she was able to earn money.  I always think of great famous women such as Meryl Streep, she has managed to be married for almost 40 years her husband, an artist, certainly does not have the fame, earning power or awards she amassed.  Another one is Julia Child, she loved her husband and certainly soared in the fame department and it broke her heart to have to put him in assisted living.  Somehow I don't see either Meryl or Julia carping on their less successful, less famous husbands.

Hopefully, this new guy fills the bill.  He is supposedly richer, although married, and very Bethenny like.  I would think it would be difficult to live the shadow of a reality TV star.    Since nobody seems to know if this man has children, Bethenny may be signing up for a whole new dynamic.  One that probably doesn't need to become fodder for her books or reality TV.

It seems she still cooks in a bikini.  I am sorry but she has to have the fake breasts fixed-it just doesn't look at all real. 

[WireWrap]

10 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I think the bigger issue wasn't the amount of time devoted to the Hoppys but had more to do with the fact she wanted to move to LA.  It would have been better/good for her career but bad for the family dynamic. 

 

I can see the two of them having that discussion.  I don't think that was the deal breaker for the two of them, or the senior Hoppys are to blame.  Bethenny apparently through sources made the statement the Hoppys never really accepted her.  I think they did accept her for the screaming shrew she was and is.  I think it is difficult for people who seemingly have a loving respectful relationship to watch their child wrapped up in the relationship that lacks respect.  Bethenny said her reason for leaving the marriage was that Jason didn't respect her and she was the breadwinner (rub more salt in the wounds) he worked, just not at the level she was able to earn money.  I always think of great famous women such as Meryl Streep, she has managed to be married for almost 40 years her husband, an artist, certainly does not have the fame, earning power or awards she amassed.  Another one is Julia Child, she loved her husband and certainly soared in the fame department and it broke her heart to have to put him in assisted living.  Somehow I don't see either Meryl or Julia carping on their less successful, less famous husbands.

Hopefully, this new guy fills the bill.  He is supposedly richer, although married, and very Bethenny like.  I would think it would be difficult to live the shadow of a reality TV star.    Since nobody seems to know if this man has children, Bethenny may be signing up for a whole new dynamic.  One that probably doesn't need to become fodder for her books or reality TV.

It seems she still cooks in a bikini.  I am sorry but she has to have the fake breasts fixed-it just doesn't look at all real. 

I honestly think the Hoppy's tried to accept her but she kept changing what she wanted from them and they finally gave up. Then she filed for divorce and they saw Bethenny and her team blame everything on Jason.....everything and in public. I suspect that Jason not agreeing to the LA move was the final straw that pushed Bethenny to file for divorce, no one ever tells Bethenny No without getting kicked out of her life. Everyone and everything must be built on Bethenny's wants/needs/desires and there is no room for discussion or compromise.

[breezy424]

Heck, if I was Jason living that situation in that tiny NY apartment with all her assistants coming and going, I'd want to go to Hazelton any chance I got.  A normal home with people who are just happy to see me and have no pressure.  No city noise.  A quiet backyard to play with my child and see them with family.  Hopeful that my wife would calm down a bit in the countryside.  Just freaking relax and feel good about myself.

[Harperlee1]

13 hours ago, OhGromit said:

I gotta disagree with you on the mom!  First of all, both the mom AND the dad were really attached to Brynn.  So if you go there with the mom, you gotta be even handed and call the dad out for the same thing.  BOTH of them were saying things about keeping Brynn with them over the summer, what have you-- not just the mom.

Second, I'm gonna disagree with you halvsy-halvsy.  The mom and the dad both lost a child.  The problem was that they seemed to have a lot more grieving to do-- i.e. not that you ever get over it, but I think they kept avoiding finishing off more grief by keeping way way attached to Jason, and then Brynn.  I'm NOT saying you ever "get over it"-- I'm saying their unfinished grief made them WAY more clingy than they would have been.  

BUT I really don't think they were nuts, and I can't go there with you on the mom being "nuts" or "out of her mind", definitely not.  Did she say that one thing?  Yes.  Was Brynn only 6 months old and unable to understand?  Yes.  Dude.  The mom was overenthusiastic, that's it.  She was SUPER lovely at all times, warm, and VERY kind to Bethenny.  They agreed with Bethenny that B and Jason needed to create their own traditions.  Hence, first Thanksgiving was at Bethenny's pad (and Bethenny had a melt down over the oven).  But the mom did so many cool things to show her support for Bethenny, they attended Bethenny's talks in Philly and Jersey, all kinds of stuff.  The mom is not a crazy biotch.

Just the mom and the dad were too clingy b/c they didn't do as much grieving as their hearts still had in them for their lost son.  And Jason enabled them a bit by visiting all the time.  he freaked out on Bethenny for wanting to set boundaries with his folks, because he was part of their enablement-- Jason needed to take a step back, too, but he was too enmeshed with his parents' grief and his desire to save them from it.

A little GOOD therapy with the whole gang could've done them all a lot of good.

Anyhow, had to say my piece on the mom, cause she was a sweet lady (her flaws duly noted).

And if we compare with Brynn's OTHER grandparents, uh... don't even get started on that, right?  

I agree with the enmeshment and enabling his parents behavior, likely to ease their hurt and fill the void of their lost son, whether consciously or subconsciously. I'm sure Jason has been living with the burden of being his parents' everything and being available and around them as often as feasible, lest they feel they were losing another son. I find it hard to believe that a grown man just loves his elderly parents company so darn much that he wants to spend so much of his free time with them. It's obligation. He loves them and wants to do what he can to lessen the pain they feel. IMO, of course.

I just hope that he spends lots of ONE-ON-ONE time with Bryn, and doesn't make every gathering/event of hers about making the GPs happy and proud of her and doesn't make it a priority to spend as much of their free time as possible with them. That's just perpetuating the (what I believe is) dysfunctional family dynamic and is a heavy burden to place on Bryn's little shoulders.

The MIL I mentioned above was a single parent and hasn't had a partner since my husband was a young child. So he fell into the role of - he hates when I say this - surrogate husband to her. Nothing sexual or anything, but emotionally, always being present for her, being the "man of the house" and all that entails. It continued into adulthood. I have, in the heat of an argument, told him that if he wanted to have children with his mother, they should have done so together and left me out of it. Gross, but that's how I felt, and it got my point across. I see similarities between him and Jason.

I have to say, I think extended family is valuable to kids and I love and appreciate mine. I promise I'm not a grandparent hater! But I know, first hand, what an unhealthy level of attachment looks like and how damaging it can be to a marriage and a nuclear family. The situation with my MIL could have broken my marriage if my husband didn't finally start seeing the situation for what it was. It was that bad.  

[Natalie68]

On 7/3/2016 at 4:12 PM, QuinnM said:

No it was filmed and shown. The old forum went on fire. It was quite the fight. He said every weekend. She said what about every other. I work all week and would like time that isn't packing and driving. I think she said eight hours and we nearly needed a separate thread to discuss eight hours. He said if she wanted to go out with her friends then he could just take Brynn up without her. 

This is exactly what I remember as well.  This was the point my sister and I agreed this marriage was doomed.  It made ME feel stabby thinking what it would be like to know I had to spend each weekend road tripping to see family (or prepare for them to come see me) after working all week and wanting downtime with my own family.  My new family at that.  

[zoeysmom]

Here is the clip of the Hoppys and Bethenny discussing boundaries and frequency of their visitation:    http://www.bravotv.com/bethenny-ever-after/season-2/videos/bethenny-ever-after  Bethenny draws the line and tells them some holidays they will want to spend alone.  Carole pushes for Thanksgiving and claims first they have to get through Halloween.  Jason is clearly supporting Bethenny and reminds his parents they had the same conversation the day before.

I am not sure how many other conversations there were, but Jason seems supportive of Bethenny.    

The editing geniuses at Bravo for some reason have 3 second clips of Season 2 Episode 2-the episode I believe where Bethenny and Jason have the discussion over "normal" and family.  It would be interesting to see it.

Edited July 5, 2016 by zoeysmom

[Showthyme]

Weekend time is so precious. I cannot think of anyone that I would like to see every weekend (hubby excluded). How do you break free when you need some time for yourself without offending the other party?

I would not want to see my grandchildren every weekend. They too, have a life. I would feel guilty for monopolizing their time. We see each other frequently and we both enjoy the time. There is no pressure to spend a scheduled amount of time with one another.

People attract people into their lives for a reason. On some level, Bethenny is what Jason needed to put some distance between him and his parents. Jason provided the family that Bethenny was lacking. In this marriage, both parties had a job to do that had nothing to do with loving one another. 

In my state, a Notary is not allowed to notarize documents for closely related parties. Jason's mother should have declined. It is just a bad idea. 

[OhGromit]

1 hour ago, Showthyme said:

Weekend time is so precious. I cannot think of anyone that I would like to see every weekend (hubby excluded). How do you break free when you need some time for yourself without offending the other party?

I would not want to see my grandchildren every weekend. They too, have a life. I would feel guilty for monopolizing their time. We see each other frequently and we both enjoy the time. There is no pressure to spend a scheduled amount of time with one another.

People attract people into their lives for a reason. On some level, Bethenny is what Jason needed to put some distance between him and his parents. Jason provided the family that Bethenny was lacking. In this marriage, both parties had a job to do that had nothing to do with loving one another. 

In my state, a Notary is not allowed to notarize documents for closely related parties. Jason's mother should have declined. It is just a bad idea. 

 

I know a few people have posted on here that Jason's folks wanted to see them every weekend-- that's not correct.  It was every other weekend at first.  I've watched the BGM and BEA seasons more than once (including a repeat watch recently)-- they eventually settled on a pattern that was less than that, I believe-- I'd have to go back to the "record" and check to be sure.  

ANYHOW they were a definitely excited and somewhat clingy/needy, but very, very kind and not at all horrible.  

[OhGromit]

BTW if anyone out there is as curious (okay, obsessed!) as I am about what happened to Bethenny's marriage, insight into Bethenny, etc etc, Bethenny Getting Married and both seasons of Bethenny Ever After are available for digital streaming on Amazon.  Works like a charm, I highly recommend watching stuff using Amazon.  (Someone messaged and asked me about them-- figured others might be curious as well.)  

[qtpye]

You know someone had an equation on twop for comparing housewives that were probably trophy wives.  It was something like, "Would she be with him if he was not so rich?" or "Would he be with her if she was not so conventionally good looking?".

I think people expect women to be less superficial, but Bethany has always been a shrewd operator.  She needed a guy who was good looking, charismatic, and would look good on her arm and fulfill the fairly tale Bravo was trying to spin for her.   He also needed not to mind their whole lives being broadcast on reality television.

Jason, for his part, knew a good opportunity.  He was probably a good pharm rep, because it is a job that relies a lot on his looks and charm.  Getting with Bethany seemed like a great step for someone with not a lot of motivation to work hard in the conventional sense.

Then came the Skinny Girl deal and everything changes.  Bethany was now in another league and Jason was just dead weight.

The truth is they are both opportunists who used each other as a means to an end.  Would Bethany have picked Jason if he was 5'2" and three hundred pounds...probably not.

Would Jason have dated Bethany if she was not "Reality Show Bethany" and was just an average gal with a regular job...probably not.

It is very unfortunate that a child is getting caught up in the ugliness, otherwise, I do not really feel sorry for either of them.

[smores]

I totally agree on the enmeshment between Jason and his parents.  They lost his brother and their dynamic was screwed up from then on.  Everything was about their loss, and Jason will always fall back on "Well, they lost a child, so if this makes them happy"  And, while it's not exactly healthy, if that's what he chooses to do, that's cool for him.  It's not cool to put that burden on Bethenny or Brynn.  They may have other plans for the weekend, Brynn might want to have a sleepover at some point, and she shouldn't be held back from things like that just because it's "an easy way to make Grandma and Grandpa happy"  
 

Family is important, but so is having your own experiences and growing as your own individual person, and even growing as your own family.  Having your own holiday traditions, without always hopping in the car and driving 4 hours to replicate what Dad did for every single holiday growing up.  You can't relive his childhood.  

Jason also liked to play a game with Bethenny when they'd disagree about things like this and tell her she just didn't understand, because she hadn't come from a "real family"  If she had, she'd see that this is the way to do things.  It's a nice way to try to push her buttons, and it's really cruel.  That alone showed me that he wasn't the nice guy he was portrayed himself as.  Yeah, he said it in a compassionate way, Oh, honey, you just don't know better, if you'd had a better childhood, like me, you'd know.  Yes, she says she was raised by wolves, but that doesn't mean that her way of celebrating things is less valid, or her thoughts on how often they should visit should just be dismissed.  He doesn't automatically win because mom and dad are still married.

[ryebread]

7 hours ago, smores said:

They may have other plans for the weekend, Brynn might want to have a sleepover at some point, and she shouldn't be held back from things like that just because it's "an easy way to make Grandma and Grandpa happy"  

We have no way of knowing if the Hoppys have continued wanting to 'hog the baby' all these  years later.

My niece's baby is coming up on a year old.  I want that baby ALL THE TIME.  But I curbed my enthusiasm because my niece told me that it's irritating that her  mom, her MIL, and MY mother (the great grandma) were always calling her to ask when they could have the baby.  So I shut it because I didn't want to add to  her irritation.  But damn if I didn't want that baby all the time.  However, truth be told, the novelty is wearing off a little.  Don't get me wrong, I love him like one of my own. He was the first baby in our family in 12 years. And baby cuddling is about the best thing in the world to me and obviously to some others in my great big loving family.  But he's going to be a handful.  I keep him one day a week.  Soon, he'll be too much for my mom (80) to handle.  The MIL has already gone from having him two days a week to one.

My point is, that just because the Hoppys were grabby with the baby Bryn, doesn't mean they expect to disrupt her life - play dates, sleepovers, weekend sports, etc. forever. Bryn is a treasure to them.  When she came along she was a great joy to this family that had lost a lot.  I understand their obsession.

Now, if they're still like that and expect to see her every single weekend, then my defense of them is over.  But wishing to see her as much as possible when she was new?  I get it.  And we don't even know if they tried to 'enforce' that wish even then.

I just can't paint them as bad people for being overly smitten with the baby Bryn.

[smores]

But, you're a normal, healthy adult.  I think the fact that Jason was there every weekend and every holiday kind of points to their expectations.  Once I got married, my parents flat out said they knew that we couldn't be in two places at once and that they had no expectations of us spending every holiday with them.  They encouraged me to make my own traditions (whether with my husband's family or just the two of us), and said they would be fine working around that.  There was no "oh, you spent Thanksgiving with them, so we have to have our own meal on the Sunday before or after"  They just got that we had Thanksgiving with my in laws.  Jason's parents never said encouraged him to stay home and spend some time with his new family, or make his own traditions, it was just fold them right into the way things had always gone.  

It is absolutely normal for new grandparents to want to spend as much time with the baby as possible (or any new relative).  But, like you said, you realized it was a problem that other people wanted to be with the baby all the time too.  Bethenny and Jason worked during the week, so the weekend would be their time with the baby.  But, then they'd have to pack up everything the baby would need, the nurse, the dog, and drive 4 hours with the baby to stay in someone else's house so they could then spend all the time they want with the baby.  Bethenny saying that she wanted to spend some weekends at home with the baby wasn't exactly a horrible thing, it's not any different, really, than your niece being irritated that people keep calling to have the baby.  But yet people vilify B for it, saying she was trying to keep the baby away from the Hoppys and raise her on her own.  

[WireWrap]

31 minutes ago, smores said:

But, you're a normal, healthy adult.  I think the fact that Jason was there every weekend and every holiday kind of points to their expectations.  Once I got married, my parents flat out said they knew that we couldn't be in two places at once and that they had no expectations of us spending every holiday with them.  They encouraged me to make my own traditions (whether with my husband's family or just the two of us), and said they would be fine working around that.  There was no "oh, you spent Thanksgiving with them, so we have to have our own meal on the Sunday before or after"  They just got that we had Thanksgiving with my in laws.  Jason's parents never said encouraged him to stay home and spend some time with his new family, or make his own traditions, it was just fold them right into the way things had always gone.  

It is absolutely normal for new grandparents to want to spend as much time with the baby as possible (or any new relative).  But, like you said, you realized it was a problem that other people wanted to be with the baby all the time too.  Bethenny and Jason worked during the week, so the weekend would be their time with the baby.  But, then they'd have to pack up everything the baby would need, the nurse, the dog, and drive 4 hours with the baby to stay in someone else's house so they could then spend all the time they want with the baby.  Bethenny saying that she wanted to spend some weekends at home with the baby wasn't exactly a horrible thing, it's not any different, really, than your niece being irritated that people keep calling to have the baby.  But yet people vilify B for it, saying she was trying to keep the baby away from the Hoppys and raise her on her own.  

But Jason wasn't with his parents every weekend nor was he with them every holiday. We saw Bethenny/Jason/Bryn take trips on her show all the dang time and the Hoppy Sr.s were nowhere in sight.

[zoeysmom]

17 hours ago, smores said:

I totally agree on the enmeshment between Jason and his parents.  They lost his brother and their dynamic was screwed up from then on.  Everything was about their loss, and Jason will always fall back on "Well, they lost a child, so if this makes them happy"  And, while it's not exactly healthy, if that's what he chooses to do, that's cool for him.  It's not cool to put that burden on Bethenny or Brynn.  They may have other plans for the weekend, Brynn might want to have a sleepover at some point, and she shouldn't be held back from things like that just because it's "an easy way to make Grandma and Grandpa happy"  
 

Family is important, but so is having your own experiences and growing as your own individual person, and even growing as your own family.  Having your own holiday traditions, without always hopping in the car and driving 4 hours to replicate what Dad did for every single holiday growing up.  You can't relive his childhood.  

Jason also liked to play a game with Bethenny when they'd disagree about things like this and tell her she just didn't understand, because she hadn't come from a "real family"  If she had, she'd see that this is the way to do things.  It's a nice way to try to push her buttons, and it's really cruel.  That alone showed me that he wasn't the nice guy he was portrayed himself as.  Yeah, he said it in a compassionate way, Oh, honey, you just don't know better, if you'd had a better childhood, like me, you'd know.  Yes, she says she was raised by wolves, but that doesn't mean that her way of celebrating things is less valid, or her thoughts on how often they should visit should just be dismissed.  He doesn't automatically win because mom and dad are still married.

 

Bethenny is the one who claimed she didn't have a traditional family.  It is not as if Jason dredged up some deep dark hidden secret.  Here she was last week bawling like a baby because she didn't have any family and dreading the idea Bryn being raised  by "them".  Deep down I don't think Bethenny wants the kid to develop attachments for anyone but her.  Part of having living relatives is maintain a relationship with them.  A concept Bethenny chooses not to practice unless it is for the RHONYC or her radio show.

I don't know how  Bethenny chooses to celebrate Christmas but if her behavior at Dorinda's which was a holiday celebration is any indication of how she thinks one should comport themselves I question her idea of celebrating holidays with friends.  Going to Aspen or St. Barths to hob nob with the beautiful people is great and eating out for holidays is also a great way to spend the holidays but it is not the only way.  Jason learned through tragedy to enjoy the time you have with your family on this earth.  If Bethenny truly loved him she could see it was important, maybe not as important as having Len the waiter every year at the Four Season's for Christmas dinner tradition serve the family, but right up there. 

I don't think her ideas were dismissed, I think she did a great job of expressing her desires she just didn't get her way.   Compromise is just not in Bethenny's vocabulary.  The obvious answer would be to include the Hoppys in a family vacation-ditch the nanny and have a good time. The don't have to stay in the same room or suite but if they wanted to ski, grandma and grandpa could watch the child, if they wanted an evening out grandma and grandpa could watch Bryn.  These aren't really tough compromises. 

Mostly I don't think time with the Hoppys is what broke this family up.  Nor do I think Bethenny has ever claimed the same.  She just does not want the people in her life and by extension her daughter's life.  Too bad too sad, it just didn't happen for her.    Now a judge has decided who has the child for the holidays.

[smores]

I'm not saying that the time with the Hoppys is what broke them up.  I'm saying that it's where I saw a nasty side of Jason's personality come out.  To me, saying to her "You just don't understand because you've never had a REAL family" is manipulative and cruel.  And I say this from experience, I come from a messed up family, we never did things like other people, and in a lot of ways I could say that I was raised by wolves like B.  My husband, on the other hand, has a family that all goes to the grandparent's house for every.single.holiday.  Flag day? Time to go to grandma's!  There are also a ton of them, and they ALL show up.  This is great, it's cool, I love them.  The thing is, I grew up doing certain things on certain days, and just because it wasn't going to grandma's with everyone in the world that I'm possibly related to doesn't mean I did it wrong, or that I should immediately abandon the idea of ever doing that again.  

However, early on in our marriage, it WAS an issue.  I was totally happy to go to his family stuff most of the time, because family IS important.  But, he didn't always see that doing the stuff that celebrated my "background" was equally important.  It's not the same as gathering around a table with all your aunts and uncles the way he did as a kid, but it was what meant that holiday to me.  It was what made it Thanksgiving or whatever.  And, he did tell me that I just didn't get it because I didn't have a normal family, that if I had, I would understand.  That did not go the way he thought it would (I imagine he thought I'd say, oh, I see your point, and just give in).  We had a very animated discussion, and he now does realize that how I did holidays is just as valid and important as how he did them, even if it wasn't "family"  Since then, we've created a happy mix, we do some of my stuff, some of his stuff, and we've started some new stuff just us.  

Jason shutting down anything because "you just don't get it" and making her automatically wrong doesn't make him automatically right.  

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, smores said:

I'm not saying that the time with the Hoppys is what broke them up.  I'm saying that it's where I saw a nasty side of Jason's personality come out.  To me, saying to her "You just don't understand because you've never had a REAL family" is manipulative and cruel.  And I say this from experience, I come from a messed up family, we never did things like other people, and in a lot of ways I could say that I was raised by wolves like B.  My husband, on the other hand, has a family that all goes to the grandparent's house for every.single.holiday.  Flag day? Time to go to grandma's!  There are also a ton of them, and they ALL show up.  This is great, it's cool, I love them.  The thing is, I grew up doing certain things on certain days, and just because it wasn't going to grandma's with everyone in the world that I'm possibly related to doesn't mean I did it wrong, or that I should immediately abandon the idea of ever doing that again.  

However, early on in our marriage, it WAS an issue.  I was totally happy to go to his family stuff most of the time, because family IS important.  But, he didn't always see that doing the stuff that celebrated my "background" was equally important.  It's not the same as gathering around a table with all your aunts and uncles the way he did as a kid, but it was what meant that holiday to me.  It was what made it Thanksgiving or whatever.  And, he did tell me that I just didn't get it because I didn't have a normal family, that if I had, I would understand.  That did not go the way he thought it would (I imagine he thought I'd say, oh, I see your point, and just give in).  We had a very animated discussion, and he now does realize that how I did holidays is just as valid and important as how he did them, even if it wasn't "family"  Since then, we've created a happy mix, we do some of my stuff, some of his stuff, and we've started some new stuff just us.  

Jason shutting down anything because "you just don't get it" and making her automatically wrong doesn't make him automatically right.  

Bethenny didn't have any 'traditions" that she wanted to incorporate into their lives. She turned her back on her family and everything they did, which was/is her choice but that doesn't meant that Jason has to do it to his family/traditions. She didn't want to spend any holidays with his family, none of them, she wanted to go on trips, like to the beach or skiing, but just the 3 of them, her staff/employees and the nanny and no Hoppy Sr.s.  As much as Jason said that Bethenny didn't understand "family" she also said that she didn't "understand" family either. It went both ways with Bethenny usually trying to lead and make all the final decisions about the 3 of them.

[smores]

Jason got married.  It meant that there was another person to consider when it came to how to spend the weekend or the holiday.  So, even if B had no traditions that she brought, it doesn't mean that Jason's way goes.  It means that they figure out what to do together.

I never saw her say that she wanted no Hoppys ever. I saw her say sometimes just the 3, sometimes Hoppys, but not nearly as much Hoppys as Jason just automatically assumed there would be.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, smores said:

I'm not saying that the time with the Hoppys is what broke them up.  I'm saying that it's where I saw a nasty side of Jason's personality come out.  To me, saying to her "You just don't understand because you've never had a REAL family" is manipulative and cruel.  And I say this from experience, I come from a messed up family, we never did things like other people, and in a lot of ways I could say that I was raised by wolves like B.  My husband, on the other hand, has a family that all goes to the grandparent's house for every.single.holiday.  Flag day? Time to go to grandma's!  There are also a ton of them, and they ALL show up.  This is great, it's cool, I love them.  The thing is, I grew up doing certain things on certain days, and just because it wasn't going to grandma's with everyone in the world that I'm possibly related to doesn't mean I did it wrong, or that I should immediately abandon the idea of ever doing that again.  

However, early on in our marriage, it WAS an issue.  I was totally happy to go to his family stuff most of the time, because family IS important.  But, he didn't always see that doing the stuff that celebrated my "background" was equally important.  It's not the same as gathering around a table with all your aunts and uncles the way he did as a kid, but it was what meant that holiday to me.  It was what made it Thanksgiving or whatever.  And, he did tell me that I just didn't get it because I didn't have a normal family, that if I had, I would understand.  That did not go the way he thought it would (I imagine he thought I'd say, oh, I see your point, and just give in).  We had a very animated discussion, and he now does realize that how I did holidays is just as valid and important as how he did them, even if it wasn't "family"  Since then, we've created a happy mix, we do some of my stuff, some of his stuff, and we've started some new stuff just us.  

Jason shutting down anything because "you just don't get it" and making her automatically wrong doesn't make him automatically right.  

I always viewed the whole "damaged" discussion like this:  If you plead not guilty by reason of insanity as a way to excuse your behavior-don't whine when people call you crazy. 

There was obviously room for compromise and these things should be worked out prior to getting married and having children.  The marriage was so short lived there was hardly time for every, all none or nevers. 

I didn't think Jason was the world's nicest guy-I think he was just reserved in front of the cameras because he didn't want to make an ass out of himself.  Saying you don't understand something because you have not lived it is not an insult.  This argument happened the first year of their marriage.  So Bethenny wasn't really all that game to experience what she had not experienced before.  Jason got to live with the staff and frequent trips that didn't involve his family, something more in line with Bethenny's way of doing things.  She got to have the first Thanksgiving and screwed up the day for everyone, she got to go to California and do her skating thing.  Jason made some concessions as did she. 

[WireWrap]

35 minutes ago, smores said:

Jason got married.  It meant that there was another person to consider when it came to how to spend the weekend or the holiday.  So, even if B had no traditions that she brought, it doesn't mean that Jason's way goes.  It means that they figure out what to do together.

I never saw her say that she wanted no Hoppys ever. I saw her say sometimes just the 3, sometimes Hoppys, but not nearly as much Hoppys as Jason just automatically assumed there would be.

Yes, Jason got married but so did Bethenny, it goes both ways. Actually, she said on the show that she wanted Christmas at the beach, just the 3 of them, no in-laws. Of course, I have no doubt that she would take her employees as she never went anywhere without them for longer than 1 night, the boat trip from hell is 1 of those 1 nights without them but they were waiting for them at the vacation house.

[seasick]

I think what bothered me overall with Beth and the Hoppy's relationship is that Bethenny seemed to view them as a threat.    I really think that 'vibe' is what was felt thru Jason and the Hoppy's and even the viewers.  

It wasn't so much the time or the holidays or whatever--but just B's attitude toward them that bugged me.   I really don't think they deserved that,  even if Jason was a little bit one-sided and maybe overly sympathetic to his parents. I even think the idea of having to entertain the idea of 'sympathy' (for anyone but herself) freaked Bethenny.    Seriously--if the gp's didn't work during the week why not put them in a hotel and let them take Bryn for the day once or twice a month--especially those first months when they change so quickly.  She was so  no no no to nearly everything.     

I keep thinking back to the way B acted when jason and the Hoppy's gave her that b'day party.  She couldn't tolerate their kindness and sense of inclusion as a family.   She claimed she didn't want the attention, but yet she threw herself a nice big B'day at the Hamptons.  So It wasn't that.  They were a threat.  She might owe them something.  She might have to 'give back' and consider others going forward if she accepts this.   No.  I think Bethenny is so selfish as to be considered sociopathic.   

[zoeysmom]

21 minutes ago, seasick said:

I think what bothered me overall with Beth and the Hoppy's relationship is that Bethenny seemed to view them as a threat.    I really think that 'vibe' is what was felt thru Jason and the Hoppy's and even the viewers.  

It wasn't so much the time or the holidays or whatever--but just B's attitude toward them that bugged me.   I really don't think they deserved that,  even if Jason was a little bit one-sided and maybe overly sympathetic to his parents. I even think the idea of having to entertain the idea of 'sympathy' (for anyone but herself) freaked Bethenny.    Seriously--if the gp's didn't work during the week why not put them in a hotel and let them take Bryn for the day once or twice a month--especially those first months when they change so quickly.  She was so  no no no to nearly everything.     

I keep thinking back to the way B acted when jason and the Hoppy's gave her that b'day party.  She couldn't tolerate their kindness and sense of inclusion as a family.   She claimed she didn't want the attention, but yet she threw herself a nice big B'day at the Hamptons.  So It wasn't that.  They were a threat.  She might owe them something.  She might have to 'give back' and consider others going forward if she accepts this.   No.  I think Bethenny is so selfish as to be considered sociopathic.   

Years ago someone wrote that Bethenny was acting like a 22 year old who got married and had her own place for the first time and didn't want the parents at the party.  Just the year before she got married to Jason she could not get enough of Jill's mom-of course it meant camera time for her.  Gloria was so wise and full of advice for orphan Bethenny.  I now wonder how Jill felt when she found out poor broke Bethenny had actually received $400,000.00 from Frangelico and camped out at Jill's? 

Twice in the same month Bethenny  had major meltdowns in front of the Hoppys.  I always wondered if maybe they weren't a little concerned for their granddaughter having such a volatile mother. 

[Knuckles]

9 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

their granddaughter having such a volatile mother. 

Just the words "their granddaughter" would be enough for Beth to go ballistic...she wants her daughter to have no family, no connections, no one but Beth as the center of her life. Beth is a perfect example of a woman who should never have married, and even more, should never have had a child within that context. She's ensuring that Bryn will grow up to be in the same position as she is...essentially alone. Beth has decided to create her own mini-me.

[jinjer]

12 hours ago, smores said:

Jason got married.  It meant that there was another person to consider when it came to how to spend the weekend or the holiday.  So, even if B had no traditions that she brought, it doesn't mean that Jason's way goes.  It means that they figure out what to do together.

I never saw her say that she wanted no Hoppys ever. I saw her say sometimes just the 3, sometimes Hoppys, but not nearly as much Hoppys as Jason just automatically assumed there would be.

I think that Jason did compromise - we saw plenty of that on the show with the holidays they did without the grandparents.  We saw one holiday where they were included (and Bethenny the chef didn't work the oven right and the turkey didn't cook. Suck hijinks!)

I don't think Jason was passive aggressive at first.  But I do recall a dinner in California where he did the old, "You don't know what normal is." I think their marriage was falling apart by then, and there was a lot of animosity between them.  She was playing crying victim, and he zinged her.

But the first days of their marriage in my mind were ridiculous. She was so unyielding and had no idea what a marriage meant. Her employees could come and go at will, participate in their personal life and the upbringing of their child, but the child's grandparents had to be held at bay?  That's crazy.  

It was a battle for control.  Jason gave in a lot. He compromised.  The only thing he really didn't give in on was moving to California.  But I do think that many of their little "fights" were storyline driven.  "Let's have a spat over xyz."  Just like the turkey thing on Thanksgiving.

ITA with the posters who think that Bethenny really can't bear the thought of Bryn loving others. She really wants someone loving just her.  Bethenny is damaged so deeply. Bernadette comes across to me like a bitter, cold woman.  Bethenny's dad didn't want to really see her either on his death bed.  I mean they both could be lovely people who are so pissed at Bethenny for trashing them on TV.  But the likelihood that Bethenny could be such a horror show of a person without being raised by horror show parents is slim.

Edited July 9, 2016 by jinjer

[seasick]

6 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Years ago someone wrote that Bethenny was acting like a 22 year old who got married and had her own place for the first time and didn't want the parents at the party.  Just the year before she got married to Jason she could not get enough of Jill's mom-of course it meant camera time for her.  Gloria was so wise and full of advice for orphan Bethenny.  I now wonder how Jill felt when she found out poor broke Bethenny had actually received $400,000.00 from Frangelico and camped out at Jill's? 

Twice in the same month Bethenny  had major meltdowns in front of the Hoppys.  I always wondered if maybe they weren't a little concerned for their granddaughter having such a volatile mother. 

I don't recall the other meltdown..  what/when was that?  

I don't know about the Frangelica deal or the timing of it, but I'm not sure I can picture Beth showing vulnerability once she had money in her pocket.  Unless of course a summer of Jill and Gloria letting Bethenny talk endlessly about herself for the camera was worth it, which is possible.    Friendship has no value or obligation to sociopathic Beth anyway.   She likes to justify it by suggesting *everyone*  is a user.   But one of the biggest problems I have with her cold, unfeeling ways is that she knows enough to feel embarrassed when it becomes obvious that she used someone and has no feelings.  She has the ability to 'care.'   but only about her image.  Then starts the poor-me justification rant.  Beth, stick to paid employees, and business deals.  Stop using/imposing on those dumb humans who still have the silly idea that real friendships and caring exist and you won't have to look like a shit.

And that I think is the problem with the in-laws.  She had no "use" for them.  Truly.   What good were they to her?  And on top of that, they were 'commoners' from Pennsylvania.  Think B is going to join that association??  3 of them--one of her--she's going to become some average-middle-class family  "image"! .  Ecggk.. NO.!    And now *their* station is going to be raised by having the rich celebrity in their lives?  Oh no.they are not going to use MY success to better themselves.  They're not going to 'use' me.    This is mine. all Mine.  (and so is Bryn)  They have nothing that I want, so what would *I * get out of sharing my child or my life with them??   

[WireWrap]

8 minutes ago, seasick said:

I don't recall the other meltdown..  what/when was that?  

I don't know about the Frangelica deal or the timing of it, but I'm not sure I can picture Beth showing vulnerability once she had money in her pocket.  Unless of course a summer of Jill and Gloria letting Bethenny talk endlessly about herself for the camera was worth it, which is possible.    Friendship has no value or obligation to sociopathic Beth anyway.   She likes to justify it by suggesting *everyone*  is a user.   But one of the biggest problems I have with her cold, unfeeling ways is that she knows enough to feel embarrassed when it becomes obvious that she used someone and has no feelings.  She has the ability to 'care.'   but only about her image.  Then starts the poor-me justification rant.  Beth, stick to paid employees, and business deals.  Stop using/imposing on those dumb humans who still have the silly idea that real friendships and caring exist and you won't have to look like a shit.

And that I think is the problem with the in-laws.  She had no "use" for them.  Truly.   What good were they to her?  And on top of that, they were 'commoners' from Pennsylvania.  Think B is going to join that association??  3 of them--one of her--she's going to become some average-middle-class family  "image"! .  Ecggk.. NO.!    And now *their* station is going to be raised by having the rich celebrity in their lives?  Oh no.they are not going to use MY success to better themselves.  They're not going to 'use' me.    This is mine. all Mine.  (and so is Bryn)  They have nothing that I want, so what would *I * get out of sharing my child or my life with them??   

Just witnessing 1 of her meltdowns would cause alarm in most people IMO. LOL

I can see Bethenny sticking to a persona that she knew viewers/fans loved as much as possible, money or not. She tried to play the sad, lonely, vulnerable act last season and it failed. So this season she has self titled herself as the shows resident "bitch" with a touches of the lonely, vulnerable (sick/ill) Bethenny. LOL

I agree with everything you said about her.

[emmy plath]

Looks like it's finally over: http://www.people.com/article/bethenny-frankel-jason-hoppy-finalize-divorce

[zoeysmom]

Good news for both sides.  If I were Bethenny's new boyfriend I would delay as long as possible having my divorce final.

I guess he would need to file first.

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 7:49 AM, seasick said:

I don't recall the other meltdown..  what/when was that?  

I don't know about the Frangelica deal or the timing of it, but I'm not sure I can picture Beth showing vulnerability once she had money in her pocket.  Unless of course a summer of Jill and Gloria letting Bethenny talk endlessly about herself for the camera was worth it, which is possible.    Friendship has no value or obligation to sociopathic Beth anyway.   She likes to justify it by suggesting *everyone*  is a user.   But one of the biggest problems I have with her cold, unfeeling ways is that she knows enough to feel embarrassed when it becomes obvious that she used someone and has no feelings.  She has the ability to 'care.'   but only about her image.  Then starts the poor-me justification rant.  Beth, stick to paid employees, and business deals.  Stop using/imposing on those dumb humans who still have the silly idea that real friendships and caring exist and you won't have to look like a shit.

And that I think is the problem with the in-laws.  She had no "use" for them.  Truly.   What good were they to her?  And on top of that, they were 'commoners' from Pennsylvania.  Think B is going to join that association??  3 of them--one of her--she's going to become some average-middle-class family  "image"! .  Ecggk.. NO.!    And now *their* station is going to be raised by having the rich celebrity in their lives?  Oh no.they are not going to use MY success to better themselves.  They're not going to 'use' me.    This is mine. all Mine.  (and so is Bryn)  They have nothing that I want, so what would *I * get out of sharing my child or my life with them??   

Bethenny had a major meltdown, wailing in the bathroom in early November at her birthday party and the replay of the same behavior on Thanksgiving.  The poor Hoppys.

[Sai]

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/bethenny-frankel-jason-hoppy-finalize-divorce-after-three-years-w429750

Bethenny's Divorce is finalized.

Quote

Hoppy's lawyer, Bernard Clair, also confirmed that the case had been closed, and said, "Jason is thrilled that this chapter of his life is over" and "extremely pleased with the settlement that was reached." Clair further noted that the terms of the settlement are "private and confidential," and that "Jason looks forward to the future and enjoying that time privately with family, friends and most important to him, his daughter."

Jason is extremely pleased with the settlement that was reached.  I wonder how much money she had to dish out to that loser.

[NewDigs]

1 hour ago, emmy plath said:

Looks like it's finally over: http://www.people.com/article/bethenny-frankel-jason-hoppy-finalize-divorce

I'd love to see a balance sheet comparing the cost of B's attorneys v. settling a couple few years ago.

[Showthyme]

2 hours ago, Sai said:

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/bethenny-frankel-jason-hoppy-finalize-divorce-after-three-years-w429750

Bethenny's Divorce is finalized.

Jason is extremely pleased with the settlement that was reached.  I wonder how much money she had to dish out to that loser.

The losing side tends to announce that they are pleased with the outcome. Johnny Cochran did this in the OJ trial. Judge Ito would rule against him on a sidebar and he would say, "Thank you, Your Honor" when he returned to his seat. It left the jury with the impression that the judge ruled in his favor. 

Jason came away with more financially after knowing Bethenny than she gained from knowing him. He received $144,000 each year in spousal support for three years in addition to living in that condo. That alone is quite a windfall even without a divorce settlement which had to be sizable. Bryn was the only good that came from their relationship.