S07.E14: First Easter Together

[BitterApple]

CousinAmy, great points. I sometimes forget that most of these epis are special occasions/outings. As a child I was given more leeway to have goodies if I was at the carnival or the zoo versus a regular Tuesday night at home.

I'm hoping the "ice cream-for a-picture" scenario was a one-time thing to keep the peace. My bone to pick is I don't like the idea of using food as a reward for good behavior, especially on a kid who will be prone to weight gain as he ages.

[Absolom]

I believe it's 90% scripted.  As scripted as you can go with pre-schoolers.  They have to be able to do lighting set up, know where the filming is headed, etc.  Are they doing things that they would do anyway?  As long as they stick with that, I'm OK with the series for the adults.  I'm not really OK with the kids working. 

[jodo]

Regarding the elevator: I'm 65, not a dwarf, but oh, how I appreciate elevators! I have a touch of arthritis and try to avoid stairs if at all possible.

It's more of an "aging" thing I'm told, but my knees are starting to go. I can imagine Jen and Bill would want to minimize the strain on their joints as much as possible.

Makes sense that in their dream home they intend to grow old in they would install an elevator but they are not old yet and use it all the time so I think it "elevated" their house to being a bit more palatial!  

[BitterApple]

Bill has ongoing orthopedic issues so I certainly don't expect him to schlep up and down stairs when they have the elevator. If it's there and it's needed, by all means use it.

[TigerLily20]

I'm still trying to find out the reason for the elevator in the house.  Has it ever been said exactly?  Bill made a comment that if they would have adopted children without dwarfism, they could carry him up and down the stairs.  Is he unable to climb stairs or is it painful for him?  (please don't tell me it's "unsafe", I don't want to re-hash Jen carelessly climbing on the counter when she had Kate an arm reach away to get the dishes for the take-out food)

I think the elevator is for a few purposes, when they get older and have more trouble getting up and down steps and possibly for moving things up and down the stairs.  I know it can be hard for me to carry a box down the steps can only imagine if it's even possible for Jen.  Just my 2 cents though.

[mbutterfly]

I think the elevator is for a few purposes, when they get older and have more trouble getting up and down steps and possibly for moving things up and down the stairs.  I know it can be hard for me to carry a box down the steps can only imagine if it's even possible for Jen.  Just my 2 cents though.

Besides their current physical issues, it may have been presented to them it would be less expensive to place the elevator in the original design than to make the adaptation later. The odds seem great that there will be orthopedic surgeries in the future for this family -- more than one member. 

[Lillybee]

I noticed during one of the shows, Bill seemed to have a hard time climbing the stairs, even though the risers were lower than usual.

[JennyMominFL]

Mutiple people in that family will have various   surgeries over the years. Getting up and down stairs in those conditions can be tough. When My husband had his open heart surgery they wouldn't have let him go home if he needed stairs to get to his room. With all of the surgeries they will eventually need, I don't see a problem with the elevator

Edited June 8, 2014 by JennyMominFL

[MrMattyMatt]

 I don't see a problem with the elevator

I don't have a problem with it either.  I was just wondering if it was ever addressed or if Bill currently is unable to climb stairs.  Thanks to all that commented!

[JustAlison]

 

I agree that it's a business and now they have their children working in that business. I don't think children should have to work.

If you truly feel that way, it's curious you would support the very industry those children are 'working' in by watching the programming.

 

Perhaps Jen should her shift her 'reason' for doing the show from 'educating people about dwarfism' to maybe 'educating people about women in medical fields'; or possibly 'educating people about women with disabilities in the medical field''. Then again, she could go with 'educating people about women with disabilities adopting'. There is no end to the ways in which this woman is inspiring, and I am hopeful she is profiting greatly.

 

 

they are not old yet and use it all the time so I think it "elevated" their house to being a bit more palatial!

 

The elevator was installed to accommodate ongoing physical issues related to their dwarfism, so it would be rather irrational for them to wait until old age to avail themselves of its usage. Further, it would seem much of their home has been retrofitted to suit their size, so I doubt the presence of an elevator would go far in convincing potential buyers of its palace like qualities while they pondered the cost of a kitchen re-do. 

[PRgal]

I liked everything about this episode.  They were all having a good time out at the farm and even though Will wanted to go immediately to the ice cream truck, he did calm down and did let Bill take photos.  This is probably the most relaxed I've seen Jen in a long time.  

 

Kudos to Bill for following through on his warning that if the egg dipper went in Will's mouth again, it went away. Will throwing on the sad, slightly pathetic face made me smile. When my youngest was that age, she'd do the same thing.  It didn't work for her and it didn't work for Will.  I did have to laugh when Zoey was laying on her tray,  you know she was thinking, hey bozo, could you knock it off so we can get back to the eggs.  LOL

 

Shandam, in your list of double words, you included NiNi (I looked up the correct spelling cuz I'm a geek and it's Nai Nai), which is not just a word spoken twice, but is Mandarin for Grandmother.  Just a little clarification.

 

Technically, words spoken twice are more colloquial.  Nai Nai is more "granny" than "grandmother." 

[LegalParrot81]

 

Technically, words spoken twice are more colloquial.  Nai Nai is more "granny" than "grandmother."

 

For my own education, what is the proper Manderin word for Grandmother?  Thanks.

[Fostersmom]

Putting an elevator in after the house was completely finished would have been a hugh pain in the ass and not super well thought out. It's not like an elevator just kind of slips in a closet and it probably would have cost way more to do later. With a disability like theirs, where joints are such an issue, it stands to reason they will need more surgeries or wheel chairs in the future, so they might as well plan ahead. I have MS and currently have no issues, and I live in an apartment. I've been considering buying a condo, but am researching only ranch style condos. Do I need a cane or wheelchair today? Nope, but the fun of MS is I could need one tomorrow. Might as well have most bases covered for the future. Plus, I've always wondered if there's another set of stairs in their house that are standard height. Anyone else going up or down the much lower steps are bound to fall. 

[Honey]

For my own education, what is the proper Manderin word for Grandmother?  Thanks.

Grandfather on Father's side = Ye Ye

Grandmother on Father's side = Nai Nai

Grandfather on Mother's side= gong gong

Grandmother on Mother's side = po po

 

I see no distinction between "granny" and grandmother in Mandarin.

 

According to the translations above, Jen's Mom should be called "Po Po".  I wonder why they went with Nai Nai?

[LegalParrot81]

Thanks for the information Honey.  It is interesting that they chose Nai Nai. 

[jodo]

 

According to the translations above, Jen's Mom should be called "Po Po".  I wonder why they went with Nai Nai?

 

Well where do I line up to snark!?!  Grandma Barbara has rarely been seen to date and this will likely continue unless Jen and Bill move to LI or she moves to Texas...chances=highly unlikely!  I am sure Jen picked Nai Nai which sounds so much better than Poo Poo, oops I meant Po Po...where are those Mandarin language police when you need them?!   

 

And I wonder what they call Dave?  

Edited June 9, 2014 by jodo

[MrMattyMatt]

Interesting!  Maybe it doesn't really matter which one they call her since they are not related by blood? 

[LegalParrot81]

 

And I wonder what they call Dave?

 

Grand-Baba.  It's been mentioned a couple of times and when David was helping Zoey feed the giraffe, he said something like...Grand-Baba will help you.

 

 

Maybe it doesn't really matter which one they call her since they are not related by blood?

 

I guess my question would be, why does it matter if they are related by blood or not, grandparents are grandparents whether adopted or biological?

Edited June 9, 2014 by LegalParrot81

[BitterApple]

Considering po po is urban slang for police, I'm not surprised Bill and Jen went with Nai Nai. It's much cuter and more endearing (at least in my opinion).

[MrMattyMatt]

 

 

 

I guess my question would be, why does it matter if they are related by blood or not, grandparents are grandparents whether adopted or biological?

It doesn't.  My point is that perhaps since Judy is not Will biological grandma, they really didn't think it mattered which version they chose.  Or maybe culturally it really doesn't matter either.  Don't read more into what I post please.

[ZoloftBlob]

Yeah, I can see "po po" falling on american ears oddly....

[walnutqueen]

Considering po po is urban slang for police, I'm not surprised Bill and Jen went with Nai Nai. It's much cuter and more endearing (at least in my opinion).

 

 

In my German family, po po was butt (as in "did you wipe your po po?"), so this has a double-negative connotation for me.  :-)

[jodo]

Yep I would rather be called Nai Nai than Po Po...

[mbutterfly]

It doesn't.  My point is that perhaps since Judy is not Will biological grandma, they really didn't think it mattered which version they chose.  Or maybe culturally it really doesn't matter either.  Don't read more into what I post please.

I really can't imagine the biology mattering. She's still his maternal grandma. I think it is the alternative would fall poorly on American ears but Nai Nai is cute. 

[jodo]

I wonder if Grandma Barbara had a say in what she wanted to be called?  I mean she might have preferred an endearing name like Nai Nai too as it was her name to give away....

Edited June 9, 2014 by jodo

[gunderda]

 

 

I see a big difference in children portraying a character and a child being themselves.  The character is not them and they go home and put it away. 

 

But one can make the argument that kids involved in non-reality shows are then judged by the character they play.  Yes they can go home and put it away but if they are playing a negative character people react to them that way - not the true person that they are.  So in a way that's worse.  They can't change something they truly are not.  At least with reality tv the kids might see how shitty they were in a situation when they are older and think "wow, I was a a-hole when I was younger".

[QuinnM]

 

But one can make the argument that kids involved in non-reality shows are then judged by the character they play.  Yes they can go home and put it away but if they are playing a negative character people react to them that way - not the true person that they are.  So in a way that's worse.

The girl that played Nellie Olsen on Little House on the Prairie wrote a book about that character ruined her life.  The other part of our life is that the cyberbullying isn't restricted to children on reality shows.  So I just don't see the whole child on reality tv as that unique a threat to a happy childhood.  Plus I am much more concerned about the children that are working for $1 a day making t-shirts for Walmart.  That is a child working.  Reality tv is a child performing.  And I am absolutely not concerned about the life that Will and Zoey have or will have.  I'm sure that the money will come in real handy since the average surgery in a lifetime for someone with their issues is over 30.  That's going to cost some money.

[gunderda]

The girl that played Nellie Olsen on Little House on the Prairie wrote a book about that character ruined her life.  

 

I was probably thinking about her without realizing it.  Since they just had their reunion on tv not long ago and she said how horrible people were to her because of her character. 

 

And then on the other hand you have the two twins on Kate+8. There were some old episodes on 'on-demand' this weekend so I watched them.  The little ones were turning 6 so i don't know how old that makes Maddy and Cara but holy smokes they were BRATS!  Maybe they could blame it on their mom, but they acted like they were two while the little ones acted like they were in their teens.

[Veronique Bette]

My understanding is that all of Grandma Barbara's grandchildren call her...Grandma Barbara, so I don't see why Will and Zoey would call her something different. Besides, Barbara doesn't strike me as a timid, shrinking violet type. She seems like a down-to-earth, direct type of woman who says what she means and would have said what she wants to be called.

My brother's daughter calls her maternal grandmother "Oma", the German/Austrian version of "grandma", and that's because her grandparents lived in Austria for many years as employees of the U.N. and just got used to that word and liked the sound of it even though they are neither German nor Austrian. But the grandfather is called "Pop-Pop" because that's what he prefers. It's the relationship more than the name that matters in the long run anyway and Will and Zoey are lucky to have grandparents on both sides who just want to enjoy and love them.

[BitterApple]

Just a quick aside about how things don't always translate: The company I used to work for did an image overhaul. Some genius in marketing came up with the idea of a company "gesture." They printed up all kinds of posters, brochures, etc. with employees making this weird hand gesture. Unfortunately it turned out that the sign was deeply offensive in Asian culture; basically the equivalent of giving someone the finger and telling them "fuck you." Too bad nobody did any research before they made it a focal point of the advertising campaign!

[trimthatfat]

Considering po po is urban slang for police, I'm not surprised Bill and Jen went with Nai Nai.

 

Heh, I was waiting for someone to mention this.

[TigerLily20]

Grandfather on Father's side = Ye Ye

Grandmother on Father's side = Nai Nai

Grandfather on Mother's side= gong gong

Grandmother on Mother's side = po po

 

I see no distinction between "granny" and grandmother in Mandarin.

 

According to the translations above, Jen's Mom should be called "Po Po".  I wonder why they went with Nai Nai?

 

Funny thing is my in-laws who speak Cantonese have my kids use gong gong and po po for them, but they are grandparents on the fathers side.  I am not sure if there is a difference for the Cantonese to use, honestly I think my in-laws get confused sometimes between the two dialects. 

Considering po po is urban slang for police, I'm not surprised Bill and Jen went with Nai Nai. It's much cuter and more endearing (at least in my opinion).

We pronounce it more like "paw-paw" so you don't have that o sound, it helps some.

[eributterfly]

I believe that this episode more enjoyable than previous ones with Jen interacting with the kids. Maybe because Bill was there as well. The filming at work I do believe were different days. I noticed when she saw some of the doctors she had on the dress she wore in the previous episode doing her press conference and then the scenes with her scrubs on was a different day. I also noticed when they showed her at work, she mentioned being back or being off so long several times. As if she wanted to get a welcome back response or a we missed you. She seems so self absorbed to me, this is my opinion. I do agree that Will is behind for his age, I remember when Jen and Bill babysat a 2 year old, Cole, and Will's behavior and baby talk is similar to Cole's at the age of 2. I am sure they going above and beyond for his growth. I can remember Bill saying that he has never been around kids so for him to say that Will is the smartest 4 year old he has ever met is probably true, he has nothing to compare him to. I still think Jen's interaction with the kids is so unnatural they never show her playing with them and she just stands in front of them with her palms up and says "what" with that annoying laugh, which is like her mom's but, hers is deeper. All in all it was a cute episode, thanks to Will and Zoey.

[minx]

I think Bill's remark about Will being the smartest 4-year-old ever is just proud parental hyperbole.

[BitterApple]

I actually think Bill and Jen are pretty low-key parents. How many of you have a co-worker who blathers on endlessly about their oh-so-gifted child who's four, speaks six languages, has a black belt in karate and studies college-level physics? The Kleins seems pretty realistic in their assesments and expectations for their children.

[Satchels of gold]

I think Bill's remark about Will being the smartest 4-year-old ever is just proud parental hyperbole.

Yea, c'mon if your parents don't think your the greatest thing since sliced bread, who will? I have no doubt the Kleins are doing everything they need to do to ensure Will is getting every therapy/resource money can buy.

[JustAlison]

 

In my opinion, it is Bill and Jen's responsibility to look out for their children's best interest. I don't think the responsibility falls on the general public.

 

The issue in question was child labour, and the idea that Will and Zoey are somehow working children.. The suggestion was made that the Kleins were irresponsible in putting their children on television, and demanding they 'work', thereby endangering their welfare, and the comparison was made to child labour.

 

Child labour is a very real issue, and a serious one. Filming kids peeing in their pants and munching cookies whilst strolling through the park with their parents cannnot and should not be equated with children plunging to their fiery deaths in a sweatshop in Bangladesh. When I ponder child labour, that is the image that comes to mind. It is just hyperbole to reference Will and Zoey as child labourers, in my opinion. Applying a term like 'child labour' to Will and Zoey cheapens the word, and makes it far less meaningful when applied to actual child labourers.

 

I think child labour is a very real social issue, and most definitely the responsibility to deal with it falls on the general public. That being said, I see absolutely no correlation between issues of child labour and The Little Couple's little children.

[mbutterfly]

The issue in question was child labour, and the idea that Will and Zoey are somehow working children.. The suggestion was made that the Kleins were irresponsible in putting their children on television, and demanding they 'work', thereby endangering their welfare, and the comparison was made to child labour.

 

Child labour is a very real issue, and a serious one. Filming kids peeing in their pants and munching cookies whilst strolling through the park with their parents cannnot and should not be equated with children plunging to their fiery deaths in a sweatshop in Bangladesh. When I ponder child labour, that is the image that comes to mind. It is just hyperbole to reference Will and Zoey as child labourers, in my opinion. Applying a term like 'child labour' to Will and Zoey cheapens the word, and makes it far less meaningful when applied to actual child labourers.

 

I think child labour is a very real social issue, and most definitely the responsibility to deal with it falls on the general public. That being said, I see absolutely no correlation between issues of child labour and The Little Couple's little children.

You have made such an important distinction. These children are blowing out birthday candles and petting giraffes. Take it to its extreme, is a President's underage child being forced into labor if photos are taken of the child romping on the lawn, etc.? It would be quite an extreme if parents of young children would not be able to have professional careers that involved spotlights on their families because it would be interpreted as child labor. 

[Absolom]

I have never and would never equate the Klein children as being the same as children working in a sweat shop.  What I do see though is that are working.  If Bill and Jen are working, then Will and Zoey are working.  That means some portion of the payment for the show should be put in trust for Will and Zoey.  That means there should be restrictions on the hours and conditions under which they work. 

 

Being children, to me, means we should take more care of them than adults, not less.  Eating a cookie in front of television cameras and waiting around to do something until the lighting is set up and having to go do an activity on a certain day whether you feel like it or not is under these conditions work.  It isn't a sweat shop but there is a lot of ground in my view between a sweat shop and not working at all.  I don't think that it may not be horrible work means that as a society we should abandon children to the not so tender mercies of reality television production.  It isn't the same thing at all to me as having an occasional photo taken.  Twelve hour days are grueling for adults.  Even several four hour days of filming in a row can be taxing on children. 

Edited June 11, 2014 by Absolom

[ZoloftBlob]

Take it to its extreme, is a President's underage child being forced into labor if photos are taken of the child romping on the lawn, etc.? It would be quite an extreme if parents of young children would not be able to have professional careers that involved spotlights on their families because it would be interpreted as child labor.

 

But photographing a celeb's child while in public is not the same as filming a weekly half hour tv show where the child is a significant participant. Absolom sums it up accurately. If Bill and Jen are working, then so are Will and Zoey. Horrible sweat shop problems are indeed horrible, but those horrible things happening don't make the lesser issues ok. Yes, there are worse problems. That the problem here is less severe is not the same as no problem at all.

[4leafclover]

 

If Bill and Jen are working, then so are Will and Zoey.

 

I don't find that to be accurate.  When Bill was in Galveston making party arrangements, he said the children were at home with the nanny.  Same goes for when the camera is following Jen at the hospital--the children aren't there.  I think more often than not the children are upstairs with the nanny or taking naps or maybe even at the park with the nanny.  When Bill and Jen are doing the TH, the children are not usually there.  

[mbutterfly]

I don't find that to be accurate.  When Bill was in Galveston making party arrangements, he said the children were at home with the nanny.  Same goes for when the camera is following Jen at the hospital--the children aren't there.  I think more often than not the children are upstairs with the nanny or taking naps or maybe even at the park with the nanny.  When Bill and Jen are doing the TH, the children are not usually there.  

That is how it appears to me. The adults are busy setting things up, etc. Then the children come out for a bit, eat a couple of cookies, play with a few hangers. That's why I equate it with children in oft photographed families (i.e. the White House, Buckingham Palace). The children just appear and act cute for a little bit. Snap, snap, back with the nanny.  

[ZoloftBlob]

Were the Gosselin kids and Roloff kids also not working then?  And is the show not focusing on the children or are events set up for filming that are clearly meant to depict the children like filmed parties at the zoo and tea parties and staged moments picking berries on a farm? And are you aware that there's often retakes, even on reality shows?  And getting 20 minutes of workable footage can take days? The kids are working and they aren't provided any choice in that. The kids have been added to the show logo... that tells me we're going to see more, not less.

[Everh]

In my opinion, the kids are carrying the entire show. The Little Couple was about to be cancelled by TLC. When they adopted Will, ratings picked up, and the show was kept on the air. I don't think the show would last for five minutes without Will and Zoey.

Exactly    and the kids are working.    As another poster pointed out it can take days to get a few minutes of useable tape.   All that goes into doing just that is a constant interruption to everyday life, especially that of a child.

[Absolom]

I'll give you another example.  An infant is in a movie.  All the infant has to do is sleep and be passed from one person to another.  It's no impact on the infant.  So they shouldn't be paid, right?  How long do you think the guild would let that happen? 

 

The idea that the kids aren't working is the theory the production companies have used to try to NOT pay the children and to avoid following all those pesky workplace rules and regulations that would keep them from working those twelve hour days. 

[4leafclover]

Not sure I would really compare the Little Couple with the Gosselins or the Roloffs.  I've never watched either show other than a quick glance out of curiosity but the title of the original show "Jon and Kate Plus 8"  makes me think the children were meant to be an integral part of the show from the beginning.  I don't know how old the LPBW offspring are, but recent news about engagements makes me think they were older children when the show debuted 8 years ago--and again, that show was formatted with the family in mind, thus focusing most of the filming on the kids.  I would liken it more to the old I Love Lucy Show, which began when she and "Ricky" were a married couple without children but it then evolved into a show about a married couple with a child.  "Little Ricky" certainly boosted their ratings and he was an important part of the show but the series did not focus entirely on him--viewers saw him in a few scenes and then he was either put to "bed" or sent to his room to "play."  And if TLC had not added the 2 little children to their logo, Bill and Jen would have likely come under scrutiny for not including them.  I believe it was a cute way to show they were now a family without changing the name of the show.

[ZoloftBlob]

 

 

Not sure I would really compare the Little Couple with the Gosselins or the Roloffs

 

So we can't compare The Little Couple to Little People Big World or Jon and Kate plus, Eight, even though they are all reality shows  that are made by the same parent company, but comparing it to "I Love Lucy", a fictional comedy from the 1950s is fair and relevant?

 

LPBW and Jon and Kate plus Eight were half hour reality shows filmed by TLC just like The Little Couple. I don't understand why the comparison in how they filmed the children isn't valid as we're talking the same channel, the same time frame and kids of similar ages.

Edited June 11, 2014 by ZoloftBlob

[Bella]

We're getting off-topic here, folks.

 

If you want to discuss child labor laws and their applicability to Will and Zoey, that would go under All Episodes, since this forum doesn't have a General Discussion thread.

[4leafclover]

Thanks for the redirection Bella!  I will hop over there now!

[Bella]

No problem, just take subsequent child labor discussion to that thread. I'll even contribute.