S12.E07: The Grant Allocation Derivation

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, AnnaRose said:

So who's to say that what I bolded wasn't exactly the life insurance to which Howard was referring - additional insurance.  Maybe Bernadette wanted them to have more, and Howard told her he took care of it but didn't.  I highly doubt they don't have any, and unless I'm remembering the scene incorrectly, I don't think Howard said anything that would preclude this being the case.

True, but I'm still wondering about this:

5 hours ago, adhoc said:

n, comparing Bernadette needing some time to herself to Howard being negligent about ensuring that his wife and two kids have a good chunk of money to keep them going, should anything happen to him, is ridiculous

—On a show with 17 minutes of dialog, every word counts, and I'm missing the parallel (presumably for comic effect) between Bernadette's need for me-time and Howard's refusal to get (presumably more) life insurance. My father didn't believe in insurance, so I'm familiar with that mindset, but here it does make me wonder if this mention of life insurance is the introduction of some series finale end game. Anyone care to speculate? Or am I just missing something obvious in the me-time / just-say-no-to-life-insurance comparison?

Or am I just reading way too much into it? I do have a tendency to do that—like now I'm wondering if the reason my sister and I never had an Ezy Bake Oven in the 60s is related to my mom's hatedred of cooking and her wish that she had gotten her college degree.

[buckboard]

I may be the only one who thinks that Leonard's choosing to give the money to himself was blatant misuse of his authority to choose a recipient of the funds.  

If he couldn't choose a winner among the three finalists, why not split the money three ways, rather than benefitting himself.

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, buckboard said:

I may be the only one who thinks that Leonard's choosing to give the money to himself was blatant misuse of his authority to choose a recipient of the funds.  

If he couldn't choose a winner among the three finalists, why not split the money three ways, rather than benefitting himself.

In principal I agree with this^, but Raj tends to be at least equally self-centered and often extravagantly so (remember his Brobdingnagian desk?), Barry Kripke is equally self-centered and perhaps more of a d!ck, and the murderous Lady with the murder of crows (for @kariyaki) was not a good bet, so maybe off-screen Leonard figured he'd be least likely to get blow back for poor allocation of funds if he used the money himself--but only if he does successfully retroactively draft a plan for a worthy use for the laser.
I'm not sure how I'd really feel about it, but it might be kind of cool if in the penultimate or final episode, Leonard uses the laser to make some outstanding discovery that saves the world--because, y'all know, Nobel prizes are so passé.

[aemom]

On 2018-11-01 at 9:32 PM, shapeshifter said:

I have to use a standing desk because of chronic, increasing sciatica pain when I sit. It is exhausting. Nobody understands

 

@shapeshifter I don't know anything about your health situation,  but I started seeing an osteopath this summer who has been doing AMAZING things for my back.

Edited November 3, 2018 by AEMom
Typo

[SpiritSong]

On 11/1/2018 at 6:58 PM, Lady J said:

Howard has come a long way, but he is still Howard, no life insurance.

I'm sure he has some life insurance. Cal Tech would certainly offer that as a perk to their employees, but of course that would not be nearly enough to replace his earnings over the years if he should die. But Bernadette doesn't seem the type to me to leave that up to her husband-child. I'm betting she has a huge policy on him.

 

16 hours ago, Frost said:

I also liked that Amy and Sheldon are secure in their relationship that they don't have to lie to each other to get personal space.  Although Amy jumping on Penny in the hallway and insisting on knowing where she was going was rather disturbing.  Amy's FOMO radar was funny but the interrogation was cringeworthy rather than humorous.  Writers, you need to find a lighter touch!

Yeah, that whole needy entitlement thing made my hate for Amy from last week carry over to this week.

[Katy M]

11 hours ago, buckboard said:

f he couldn't choose a winner among the three finalists, why not split the money three ways, rather than benefitting himself.

Splitting the money likely wasn't really an option, because the 3 needed all the money to get what they needed.  In family life, if you had 3 kids and they each needed a car you could split the money because they could earn the rest or take out a loan or whatever, but this money was supposed to fully fund the needs of whoever got it.  I don't like that Leonarad gave the money to himself, especially because he didn't even know what he was going to do with the Laser.  I would have liked it a lot better if he said he was getting a laser that everyone could use that would benefit everyone's research, and then, of course, he could also use it himself.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, LadyKenobi said:

I thought it was to show he was tossing a reasonable request to impress Penny.

That didn't occur to me (probably because of my own sensitivity on the subject) so I'm glad you pointed it out (Leonard tossing a reasonable request to impress Penny), @LadyKenobi; maybe the writer who got the line in there experienced derision for their own request for a standing desk for chronic pain. Each line not cut from this show has to have some value, and much comedy is a balm for pain—typically psychological pain, but ultimately all pain is psychological.

Edited November 3, 2018 by shapeshifter

[retiredviewer]

On 11/2/2018 at 1:24 AM, 19Bee63 said:

I want the lamp!

Target kids bedroom department.

[chitowngirl]

On 11/2/2018 at 2:35 PM, howiveaddict said:

I joke to my husband, that I am worth more dead than alive.

My husband mentions this to me all the time, that he’s worth more dead than alive. Oh, believe me hubby- I know...I know.

[SmithW6079]

On the one hand, I feel for Amy and not wanting to feel left out, but on the other, she was majorly giving off that Single White Female stalker vibe when she was confronting Penny in the hallway. Yes, I get that she wants to be included all the time whenever Penny and Bernadette get together, but she's forgetting (or choosing to disregard) that not only do Penny and Bernadette work together, they have been friends far longer than Penny and Amy have (going back to their Cheese Cake Factory waitress days).

I found Sheldon to be condescending with his conversations with Leonard, which put him right back into "dick" category for me. 

When Raj expressed outrage that Leonard awarded the grant to himself, Leonard says that he checked the rules and there was nothing that precluded him doing so, if I recall.

[FinnishViewer]

Quote

she was majorly giving off that Single White Female stalker vibe when she was confronting Penny in the hallway. Yes, I get that she wants to be included all the time whenever Penny and Bernadette get together, but she's forgetting (or choosing to disregard) that not only do Penny and Bernadette work together, they have been friends far longer than Penny and Amy have (going back to their Cheese Cake Factory waitress days).

Amy has always been like that. She's always afraid of losing Penny or Bernadette as friends. She went off the deep end when Penny and Bernadette did not include her, when they went looking for Bernie's wedding dress.

[Edmond83]

I haven't seen Amy like that since probably Season 4 or 5 when she was trying to become more a part of the group and with the girls especially.

This show does that sometimes, they flip a switch to a bygone age and the way a character acted back then if the story needed it.  You also saw it earlier in the season when an angry Amy went over to 4A over Penny's decision to not want kids yet.

They do that with Sheldon all the time, especially this season.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Edmond83

[Ciarrai]

I really don't like Amy this season. She's been consistently off-putting and rude for the past few episodes and I really don't enjoy her as a character any more.

[AuntieL]

It's not totally unrealistic, though, for people to revert to past behavior in certain situations.  Being left out is one of Amy's biggest fears; it takes her back to a time when she didn't have any friends.  Even though she may know logically that she has friends and a husband who love her, well sometimes we can't help how we react when certain buttons are pushed.

[Bort]

It also just depends on the person. I used to get bent out of shape when my friends did stuff without me, while I sat bored at home, but now I couldn't give less of a shit about it. But another one of my friends still gets her hackles up if it happens to her.

[Homily]

5 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

It also just depends on the person. I used to get bent out of shape when my friends did stuff without me, while I sat bored at home, but now I couldn't give less of a shit about it. But another one of my friends still gets her hackles up if it happens to her.

For me it depends on what they're doing.  If friends are doing something they know I would like and don't include me I admit it I'd be hurt.  In the unlikely event that my closer friends decided to go clubbing well have fun girls don't worry about me!  In this episode there was no real reason why Amy couldn't haven't been included if Bernie was having Penny over anyway.  It wasn't an impromptu thing, they were planning it.  I totally get Amy feeling excluded.  Maybe she came on too strong when she confronted Penny but it's pretty consistent with the way Amy has always been -  pushy and a little needy and always just a little afraid that it's all  going to disappear and she'll be the friendless kid again.

[ProfCrash]

Work based life insurance is any where from 1-3 years worth of salary, which is not that much, especially when you have two young kid. My husband and I both got life insurance plans for far more then that when our child was born. Essentially, we made sure to have enough life insuarance to cover 10 years worth of salary and I am not sure that is enough. We do have life insurance through our jobs and there would be a social security pay out for our child but losing one salary plus becoming a single parent would be really, really hard. 

Bernadette and Howard have enough income to be able to afford far more life insurance. By not getting that life insurance, Howard would be greatly adding to Bernadette’s stress if he was to die when the kids were still at home. It is no where near a good idea for him to ignore buying the life insurance. Then again, my Grand Father died when my Dad was one and did not have any life insurace, even though he sold life insurance and could afford it, and my Grandma was in a pretty rough spot. 

Other then that, I liked the episode. I loved the details that went into the play house, I am not surprised that they fully decked it out. I loved the Bernadette was hiding out in it to get some alone time. Oh my god did I need alone time when the Little Man was a baby. Hell, I need it now when he is 6. But those first few years when the child is totally dependent on you is so, so hard. 

I liked that Howard understood that and was fine with it. Howard screws up enough things that seeing him understand Bernadette’s need was nice. In the perfect world he would tell her that he knew she needed time and to just take an hour after work to go to the gym or to the bar or for a massage. 

I liked that Howard didn’t bring out a monitor. We did bring out the monitor when we used the hot tub but our son was an awful sleeper. And it helped me relax to not worry about if he was up crying. But I understand not taking it, especially for a second child when you are more comfortable parenting and less worried about everything. 

The Leonard storyline was fine. He would not have been allowed to award the moeny to himself because it was a conflict of interest. I am not sure that he would have been able to award the money to any of his friends for the same reason. There is a reason why these things are normally handled by a committee or a Department Chair.  

[TurtlePower]

On 11/2/2018 at 11:35 AM, adhoc said:

So, uh, I guess I'm the only one who thought the episode was "meh" at best?

First, seeing married, 40-ish looking Sheldon sitting there at the beginning, not helping with the playhouse activity in any way and just being his usual special-snowflake self, well, it annoyed me.  When the writers remove any scenes where we see things Sheldon doing things he is good at (like solving a complex equation or discussing dark matter), we're just left with a stunted and vaguely annoying character. I no longer see "brilliant but eccentric," I see "self-absorbed and tiresome."

Second, I don't believe for a nanosecond that Bernie, Howard, or both of them--given their employers--don't have decent job benefits that include Life Insurance. My assumption is that they would likely choose to be covered by whoever's benefits were the best. Not to mention that many employers also allow employees to purchase additional life insurance beyond the amount provided in the employee benefit package. So Howard's talk about not buying life insurance was completely not credible, AFAIC.  The writers for this show--are they really that out of the loop?

And also--about Howard not buying life insurance, if you are willing to swallow that premise--that was another faux pas by the writers.  I mean, comparing Bernadette needing some time to herself to Howard being negligent about ensuring that his wife and two kids have a good chunk of money to keep them going, should anything happen to him, is ridiculous. What are these writers, 12?  Do they actually think these two lies (Bernie having to work late vs Howard saying he'd bought the life insurance when he hadn't) are of equal seriousness?  As it is, Howard just ended up looking immature and ignorant. 

Oh, and yeah, I also thought Leonard's treating the stand-up desk as a silly request was another example of the ignorance of the writers. And did anyone think Leonard was not going to award the grant to himself? I'm no Sherlock Holmes, but I pretty much figured straightaway that this would be the resolution of that story line.

All in all, a forgettable episode, IMO.

 

You're not the only one, I was kinda bored with this episode.  I'm especially bored with Penny's role at this point, settling for that high-paying job that she doesn't really seem to like. Everyone in the group has a career they wanted and planned out--except Penny.  

I suppose that's somewhat realistic; many people wind up doing jobs they don't really like and it's nice her character "grew up", so to speak. I'd really like to see something more hopeful for Penny's future, however. 

Edited November 5, 2018 by TurtlePower

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

Then again, my Grand Father died when my Dad was one and did not have any life insurace, even though he sold life insurance and could afford it, and my Grandma was in a pretty rough spot

This makes me wonder if Howard's aversion to additional life insurance (beyond what is included in employment benefits — which we don't know) is related to his having an absent father. IDK. Maybe Howard thinks he turned out fine without a safety net? Not getting life insurance just seemed like such an odd choice for the thing he's hiding from Bernadette that I keep thinking it has to be part of a bigger story arc.

[ProfCrash]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

This makes me wonder if Howard's aversion to additional life insurance (beyond what is included in employment benefits — which we don't know) is related to his having an absent father. IDK. Maybe Howard thinks he turned out fine without a safety net? Not getting life insurance just seemed like such an odd choice for the thing he's hiding from Bernadette that I keep thinking it has to be part of a bigger story arc.

I doubt Howard gave it that much thought. I know that my Dad's response to his Father's death and the resulting financial issues that my Grandmother faced was to work extra hard so that my Mom was never in that position. And he carried a ton of life insurance because he did not want Mom or his kids to suffer some of the hardships his family did. Howard's family didn't have the option of benefiting from life insurance because his father was still alive but I have to assume that his mother had to work reasonably hard to support Howard.

[chitowngirl]

I can see Penny and Bernadette not including Amy in everything, but I still think that shopping for wedding dresses without her was a bit excluding. So she has precedent for knowing she is left out of things.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I doubt Howard gave it that much thought. 

But didn't the writers?

[TurtlePower]

7 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

But didn't the writers?

That's the point. It's Howard, not the writers,  being portrayed here. 

[ProfCrash]

8 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

But didn't the writers?

I am going with the writers gave it no thought. They probably thought it was a funny throw away line. I don't know what percentage of the population has life insurance, either through work or personally bought or both, but I suspect it is a small percentage of the population. I know that the policies that we have are not inexpensive. We can afford them but we are both working at jobs with good salaries. I suspect that most people do not carry private insurance as it could be seen as something that costs a minimum of a couple of hundred dollars a year just in case some one dies. And those policies do not provide all that much money.

[CherryAmes]

3 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I am going with the writers gave it no thought. They probably thought it was a funny throw away line.

I think if the writers gave it any real thought at all it was just another way to show that Howard is lazy and can't be depended on to do some pretty basic stuff.  Which is weird as in this episode they show him really stepping up and obviously picking the kids up from daycare and then caring for them on his own until Bernie gets home - and being very understanding about her not wanting to rush home!  I'll be honest I don't think if I'd been Howard dealing on my own with two babies that I'd have been nearly as nice about it as he is being!

[AnnaRose]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I am going with the writers gave it no thought. They probably thought it was a funny throw away line.

 

1 hour ago, CherryAmes said:

I think if the writers gave it any real thought at all it was just another way to show that Howard is lazy and can't be depended on to do some pretty basic stuff.

I think the two quotes above sums it up very well!  Viewers can pick it apart and analyze it, but it was just the writers going for a funny line.

[TV Diva Queen]

On 11/1/2018 at 8:02 PM, ams1001 said:

I loved Howard in this one.

I know we don't really see much about what their actual jobs are...maybe that's why I have a hard time believing they would put a random physics researcher in charge of allocating grant money. 

Also had a hard time believing that the easy bake oven would produce something that hot. ;) (My mom used to just put my little cake pans in the real oven because they didn't actually bake otherwise.)

Mine worked like a charm - maybe you didn't have a strong enough bulb in there.  I had the easy bake oven and the Pizza Hut version of the easy bake oven.  Man - my playhouse would have ROCKED.  

[TV Diva Queen]

On 11/2/2018 at 11:44 AM, Katy M said:

This was research money,though.  An inappropriate place to ask for office equipment.  I'm sure they have other money for that kind of stuff.

If the researcher is funded by the grant - its 100% OK to get the stand up desk through that grant.  I manage grants and totally acceptable expense. I wouldn't bat an eye approving it. 

On 11/2/2018 at 1:39 PM, Driad said:

Strange things can happen with funding.  A relative worked at a college where Department "A" had money left at the end of the year, which meant they would get get less the next year, so a clever programmer shifted the money "temporarily" into Department "B"'s account. They figured that time was so short that "B" would not notice, but "B" did notice, and spent the money.  The programmer had done such a good job that "A" was not able to prove it was their money.

OMG - that's so illegal I can't even stand it.  LOL  Like Federal time illegal....

[TV Diva Queen]

On 11/3/2018 at 8:41 PM, chitowngirl said:

My husband mentions this to me all the time, that he’s worth more dead than alive. Oh, believe me hubby- I know...I know.

When the hubby doesn't something bad, I just say "cool it George Bailey"  with a twinkle in my eye.....

[SpiritSong]

13 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I can see Penny and Bernadette not including Amy in everything, but I still think that shopping for wedding dresses without her was a bit excluding. So she has precedent for knowing she is left out of things.

Yes, because she was totally obnoxious about it. Remember her taking pictures of Penny unclothed in the dressing room?  If you're going to act like an immature jerk, you have to expect that your friends won't always want to put up with that. Just like the playhouse...she could have asked Penny or Bernadette if it was all right for her to participate sometimes. But her overly needy, entitled attitude was a great reason not to include her. How dare she interrogate Penny like that? She is not owed every minute of her friends time. Ugh. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, SpiritSong said:

Remember her taking pictures of Penny unclothed in the dressing room? 

I had conveniently forgotten that--but it must've been lurking in my subconscious, because I was thinking: Penny, be a better liar! You do not want to be cooped up in that little playhouse with Amy!

[Gothish520]

On 11/2/2018 at 7:35 AM, Quark said:

Easily the best episode of the season so far.

3-D chess made a comeback!

3-D chess, Seibert and Kripke, yes!

Really good episode, probably the best so far this season. I love that even in season 12 we are still getting great episodes.

[Gothish520]

On 11/3/2018 at 10:38 PM, SmithW6079 said:

On the one hand, I feel for Amy and not wanting to feel left out, but on the other, she was majorly giving off that Single White Female stalker vibe when she was confronting Penny in the hallway. Yes, I get that she wants to be included all the time whenever Penny and Bernadette get together, but she's forgetting (or choosing to disregard) that not only do Penny and Bernadette work together, they have been friends far longer than Penny and Amy have (going back to their Cheese Cake Factory waitress days).

I found Sheldon to be condescending with his conversations with Leonard, which put him right back into "dick" category for me. 

When Raj expressed outrage that Leonard awarded the grant to himself, Leonard says that he checked the rules and there was nothing that precluded him doing so, if I recall.

One of the problems is that Penny often doesn't explain things properly. All she had to do was quickly explain to Amy that Bernie got stressed and started hiding out in the playhouse, Penny found out and decided she needed a break too. And that maybe it didnt dawn on them that Amy might want a break from Sheldon. This was more hiding out from the stresses of their daily lives than it was getting together for a girl's night.

[Katy M]

19 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

One of the problems is that Penny often doesn't explain things properly. All she had to do was quickly explain to Amy that Bernie got stressed and started hiding out in the playhouse, Penny found out and decided she needed a break too. And that maybe it didnt dawn on them that Amy might want a break from Sheldon. This was more hiding out from the stresses of their daily lives than it was getting together for a girl's night.

But, she shouldn't have had to have explained anything.  Amy had no right to ambush her.  Besides, even if Penny and Bernadette want to go out for a GNO without Amy once in a while they should be able to.

[LoneHaranguer]

4 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

And that maybe it didnt dawn on them that Amy might want a break from Sheldon.

But they probably wouldn't have wanted to phrase it that way since it could be taken as an insult, even if that's why Amy might have needed a break.

[BlossomCulp]

I think when it crossed over from being a spur of the moment thing and became a planned event complete with a bag of wine that's when it was time to ask Amy.  These people are close.  Way closer than most friends - hey it's a sitcom with their interactions at the core, no way was Amy not going to find out about the play house get togethers - and of course she did.  Maybe Bernadette and Penny should be able to do things without Amy but it should come as no surprise, and it didn't, that she'd want to be included and be hurt that she wasn't.

Edited November 6, 2018 by BlossomCulp

[LoneHaranguer]

17 hours ago, BlossomCulp said:

Maybe Bernadette and Penny should be able to do things without Amy but it should come as no surprise, and it didn't, that she'd want to be included and be hurt that she wasn't.

I'm not sure "hurt" is the right description. Amy has long been concerned about losing her status as Penny's bestie, so she's a little paranoid about any sign that could be slipping away. Also, as someone who has used being alone with Penny as an opportunity to trash Bernie, she's afraid of what Bernie might be saying when the situation is reversed.

[BlossomCulp]

7 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

Also, as someone who has used being alone with Penny as an opportunity to trash Bernie, she's afraid of what Bernie might be saying when the situation is reversed.

I don't agree, she was hurt and given the way they've written the show so that all the main characters completely revolve around each other it's no wonder - and that episode you reference was IMO  a typical driveby BBT thing where they did something for the sake of one episode.  

Edited November 7, 2018 by BlossomCulp

[taanja]

On 11/2/2018 at 8:41 AM, Frost said:

.  I also liked that Amy and Sheldon are secure in their relationship that they don't have to lie to each other to get personal space.  Although Amy jumping on Penny in the hallway and insisting on knowing where she was going was rather disturbing.  Amy's FOMO radar was funny but the interrogation was cringeworthy rather than humorous.  Writers, you need to find a lighter touch!

I do not know of what you speak? That scene was hilarious! Like Laugh out loud funny.

Very good ep. Loved the playhouse (and the old easy bake ovens worked fine-- that light bulb actually would burn you if you weren't careful.) and that Howard knew Bernie had been using it for alone time. 

Didn't see Leonard picking himself but yeah! Carry on young man!

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, taanja said:

On November 2, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Frost said:

.  I also liked that Amy and Sheldon are secure in their relationship that they don't have to lie to each other to get personal space.  Although Amy jumping on Penny in the hallway and insisting on knowing where she was going was rather disturbing.  Amy's FOMO radar was funny but the interrogation was cringeworthy rather than humorous.  Writers, you need to find a lighter touch!

I do not know of what you speak? That scene was hilarious! Like Laugh out loud funny

This may be the definitive example of "milage varies." (I was creeped out a bit.)

[taanja]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

This may be the definitive example of "milage varies." (I was creeped out a bit.)

Always! To each his/her own!

(Paraphrasing ) >>>>  I loved when Penny was trying to justify -- oh we just hang out without telling anyone -- and Amy was like-- how can you say that with less words ??? like a Secret fort?? and Penny was like-- yeah a secret fort!!!! Hahahaha!!! The expression on their faces and the delivery was excellent. 

Dayam! This show still makes me laugh

[dttruman]

On 11/2/2018 at 2:35 PM, howiveaddict said:

I hope Howard not having life insurance is not a for warning for the future. After all, he does have some kind of heart irregularity.  But, Bernie would probably have life insurance on Howard, already through her job.  I have life insurance on my husband through my work.  Not as much as mine, but I do have some all the same.  Also, Howard probably has a provided free policy through the University.   I have free for me and then I pay extra per check to have more.  I joke to my husband, that I am worth more dead than alive.

When it comes to life insurance, I thought all (or most) couples start insuring each after they have children, for the sake of the children.