S12.E06: The Imitation Perturbation

[readster]

6 hours ago, displayname said:

An excuse that needs to not be thrown about anymore with his "character development". He's not a child, in his own words.

Right they are "Joeying" him. Similar to Joey on Friends at one point you can't say: "The best characters don't change." However, Sheldon does remember and learn from his mistakes. Him not knowing REO Speed Wagon. Sure no problem, however him not getting when someone says; "I like to hit that." Should be: "Why would you hit that girl, that's illegal." Instead of knowing a figure of speech or slang.

[Chit Chat]

8 hours ago, SpiritSong said:

I also enjoyed Burt asking if arranged marriages were only for Indians or could he get in on it.

I missed that line.  For some odd reason, my local station quickly cut to a commercial, so I knew I missed something.  It was an unusually long amount of time for commercials too.  If it's not a storm knocking out my DirecTV, then it's the local station effing with my show.  :(   

 

7 hours ago, summitsw said:

I actually think she’s worse, Sheldon often doesn’t know better. Bernadette always knows she’s being a dick and chooses to be. 

I do think they've made Bernadette into a bit of a shrew, but I agreed with her on being upset with Amy for mocking her physical characteristics.  I'm not cool with that.  Amy took it too far.  

[TigerLynx]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

He's been told time and again.  He's at least in his mid-thirties, raised by a kind, caring woman, surround by friends who are more understanding than most people would be of his foibles, explained to when he does something really hurtful.  If he doesn't know better by now, he's nowhere near the genius he thinks he is.

The same thing could be said about most of these characters.  Both Raj and Stuart were enjoying Sheldon and Amy impersonating Howard and Bernadette.  Howard brushed off what Sheldon and Amy did, acknowledging he did the same thing to Sheldon.  It was Bernadette being angry that lead to Howard asking Sheldon to let the Wookie win.  So Sheldon went to Bernadette and apologized.

[CherryAmes]

9 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

The same thing could be said about most of these characters.

Howard in particular has always delighted. come right out and said he was delighted. in the misfortunes of others.  And this is not a trait that we can associate with early skeevy Howard.  As recently as the episode when Sheldon finds out Amy has been lying to him about the repairs on her apartment we find Howard gloating that he has information he knows will bother Leonard and he's been saving it up for just the right moment,  

Edited October 28, 2018 by CherryAmes

[chitowngirl]

2 hours ago, ChitChat said:

I missed that line.  For some odd reason, my local station quickly cut to a commercial, so I knew I missed something.  It was an unusually long amount of time for commercials too.  If it's not a storm knocking out my DirecTV, then it's the local station effing with my show.  :(   

Commercial breaks are long because TBBT clocks in at 19 minutes of show.

[Chit Chat]

My station cut to commercial very abruptly during the party scene.  I think somebody messed up.  One of the characters was in mid sentence when it happened.  It is disappointing though that there are so many commercials these days.  I want a little more of the show!  

[PinkRibbons]

As far as I'm concerned, Bernadette had that coming from Amy ever since she turned a serious conversation about the portrayal and respect of female scientists into a dig at Amy's looks.

[CherryAmes]

8 minutes ago, PinkRibbons said:

As far as I'm concerned, Bernadette had that coming from Amy ever since she turned a serious conversation about the portrayal and respect of female scientists into a dig at Amy's looks.

I hated that the writers went there with that scene and the copout scene at the end with Neil Degrasse Tyson washing the car made it even worse IMO.  Amy raised a valid concern that got completely turned into "you only complain feminazi because you'd never get asked" and "hah see it's just for funzies - men scientists can laugh at themselves why can't you?"

[Edmond83]

The Sheldon thing, well contrast his behaviour this season compared to his behaviour for the most part since Sheldon and Amy got back together and especially during Season 10.  When Sheldon and Amy moved in together I think we definitely saw a certain maturity with this character. Then of course during Season 11 a new showrunner came in and Young Sheldon became a thing.  Since then I think his character still shows glimpses of a more mature, older and wiser Sheldon but also he seems to slip back into his older behaviours more easily and frequently.

I've always had a love-hate relationship with his character and the Amy introduction and seeing that growth made me like his character more.  I don't pine for the older days of the show and the way the characters were back then.

[SmithW6079]

To be fair, Howard was mocking Sheldon ... and it was hilarious. The fact that the widdle baby can't take it is on him. Sheldon rationalizes/justifies his bullying by saying he just tells the truth, but he has derided Howard for years for being "just" an engineer -- yeah, an engineer who worked on the space station, who became an astronaut, who has accomplished more real work than Sheldon ever will. Amy has accomplished more than Sheldon ever will.

I guess Amy completely forgave Sheldon's reprehensible behavior of last week, when he got her removed from her years-long research project for his own selfish reasons. Frankly, she should have told him, "You have a problem with Howard, you go deal with it."

I also have no sympathy for Bernadette. Aren't there speech therapists who could work with her if she found her own voice so distressing? Plenty of radio DJs don't sound like their on-air personalities when they're off the air. (The bit about her brothers making her suck helium & only the dogs could hear her cry, "Help" made me laugh out loud.)

Is it just me or have they been making Amy especially frumpy these days? 

In the pantheon of characters on this show, Sheldon, Bernadette, and Raj rotate in how much I despise them the most, but I think Raj's pairing with Anu in an arranged marriage has really helped him. I still don't like the character, but I like the character with Anu. Maybe knowing that the end game (marriage) is already established is taking the pressure off Raj so he's not such a boorish, needy character starving for "love" while creeping on every attractive girl he sees.

[CleoCaesar]

7 hours ago, ChitChat said:

I do think they've made Bernadette into a bit of a shrew, but I agreed with her on being upset with Amy for mocking her physical characteristics.  I'm not cool with that.  Amy took it too far.  

The whole thing started with Bernadette's husband mocking Sheldon's high-pitched voice, stilted intonation, and robotic speech pattern, which are all physical characteristics. Bernadette was totally cool with that and dismissive of Amy's request for an apology to Sheldon. But when it's Bernadette's physical characteristics being mocked, suddenly it's not okay and hurtful according to Bernadette. Talk about a double standard.

All four of them were childish, petty assholes. No one has the moral high ground. That being said, all of it started with Howard's unprovoked mockery/imitation.

[SmithW6079]

9 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

That being said, all of it started with Howard's unprovoked mockery/imitation.

If you discount years and years of Sheldon constantly putting down Howard, his profession, and his accomplishments.

[CherryAmes]

3 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

If you discount years and years of Sheldon constantly putting down Howard, his profession, and his accomplishments.

They have had a few more recent episodes though where Sheldon and Howard seem to have made their peace with each other.  If this episode had been from an earlier season it would have been a lot more understandable that Howard was doing it in a mean spirited "get back at Sheldon" way.  But I think he really just did it because he thought it would be funny.  I don't think he actually believed Sheldon would be as upset by it as he was.  I'll have to watch this episode again but my feeling was that Sheldon was prepared to just let it go but when Amy got involved and got angry on his behalf then got into things with Bernadette that's when things took a turn for the worse.  Still and all I don't really care I watch this show to laugh and I thought Howard as  Sheldon was funny and Sheldon and Amy as Howard and Bernadette was even funnier.

[AnnaRose]

19 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

They have had a few more recent episodes though where Sheldon and Howard seem to have made their peace with each other.  If this episode had been from an earlier season it would have been a lot more understandable that Howard was doing it in a mean spirited "get back at Sheldon" way.  But I think he really just did it because he thought it would be funny.  I don't think he actually believed Sheldon would be as upset by it as he was.  I'll have to watch this episode again but my feeling was that Sheldon was prepared to just let it go but when Amy got involved and got angry on his behalf then got into things with Bernadette that's when things took a turn for the worse.  Still and all I don't really care I watch this show to laugh and I thought Howard as  Sheldon was funny and Sheldon and Amy as Howard and Bernadette was even funnier.

Yeah, I agree Sheldon was prepared to let it go.  I think he was just taken aback because, although he has admitted to Leonard that he notices their sarcastic and insulting comments, he misses a lot because he can't read people's expressions the way normal people can and because he is so extremely literal.  He seemed to be surprised and hurt that his friends would make fun of and laugh at his basic voice, dress style and mannerisms.  But it wasn't like he was obsessing over it and planning revenge. He just seemed sad and when Amy asked him what was wrong, I am guessing she could very much relate - which provided her motivation to say something about it to Bernadette.  The irony of course was that Bernadette criticized Sheldon for dishing it out and not being able to take it, but then it turned out that she wasn't so happy taking it either.

Sheldon apologized at the end and he and Bernadette found some common ground, which was nice.  Personally I don't have a problem with any of it or any of the characters. They all have flaws and sometimes behave badly, but they consistently make me laugh and I would be sad if any of these characters were no longer in the show. 

Like CherryAmes I too watch this show to laugh, not to analyze everyone's behavior as if they were my real life friends, and this show consistently makes me laugh out loud more often than any other sitcom.  I am going to miss it when it's ended.

[CherryAmes]

27 minutes ago, AnnaRose said:

They all have flaws and sometimes behave badly, but they consistently make me laugh and I would be sad if any of these characters were no longer in the show. 

This is how I feel too.  I don't think any of the characters are perfect, all have their issues and that's partly what makes this a classic sitcom.  And speaking of this being a sitcom,  perfect people who make good choices and are always kind and thoughtful don't usually get to be a main character.

Edited October 28, 2018 by CherryAmes

[BlossomCulp]

9 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Howard brushed off what Sheldon and Amy did, acknowledging he did the same thing to Sheldon.  It was Bernadette being angry that lead to Howard asking Sheldon to let the Wookie win.  So Sheldon went to Bernadette and apologized.

Yep.  To me Sheldon and Howard handled the whole thing well.  Sheldon was hurt initially, which I think surprised Howard, I think Howard was trying to get a rise out of Sheldon but he didn't really think he was going to hurt his feelings the way he did.  Sheldon  got back at Howard and Howard accepted that it was only fair and was happy to move on.   It came down to Bernadette being oversensitive and instead of Sheldon being able to dish it out but not be able to take it was her, "the wookie".  

[Runningwild]

4 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

If you discount years and years of Sheldon constantly putting down Howard, his profession, and his accomplishments.

But has Sheldon ever made fun of the way Howard looks, walks, talks, or dresses?

Edited October 29, 2018 by Runningwild

[LoneHaranguer]

On 10/26/2018 at 11:02 PM, ChitChat said:

I didn't care for the direction the episode took with Amy & Sheldon mocking Bernadette and Howard.  They took it too far.  It made Amy look like the mean girl, and she's not usually that way.

Amy has often insulted Bernie, especially behind her back. Being "besties" with "popular girl" Penny has been important to her.

[madpsych78]

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 11:09 PM, shapeshifter said:

I like to think Jim Parsons chose to do the dress-up-as-a-friend bit more subtly--letting Sheldon (who would not be a good impersonator) show through

--and that maybe JP felt just as uncomfortable with this type of bullying as I did watching it.

That's plausible, but impersonation is also not one of JP's strengths. Of course, Simon Helberg does phenomenal impersonations, but I was pleasantly surprised by Mayim's skills in this episode.

[proserpina65]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 8:15 AM, Kanner said:

Regarding Sheldon/Howard, I thought it was going to be a rehash of "Sheldon is a meanie and poor victim Howard". But it wasn't. As we know from Season 7, Howard was the instigator of the "adversarial" relationship he and Sheldon have.

It's been a long time since I've seen Season 7 - please explain.

[CherryAmes]

12 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

It's been a long time since I've seen Season 7 - please explain.

Not sure if this is what Kanner is referencing but I remembered that Sheldon claimed that Howard started everything in the episode where the two guys are flying to Texas together but couldn't remember what happened so off to google  and found this:

https://bigbangtheory.fandom.com/wiki/The_Friendship_Turbulence

Bernie then wants to know why Sheldon is also so mean to her husband.[...]Sheldon then gives Bernadette details of ten years of his torture by Howard. When they first met, he said that Sheldon looked like a cross between C3P0 and Pee-Wee Herman, C3-Pee Wee Herman. Since then, he has also messed up his lecture slide presentations and subscribed Sheldon to inappropriate magazines. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by CherryAmes

[proserpina65]

13 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

Not sure if this is what Kanner is referencing but I remembered that Sheldon claimed that Howard started everything in the episode where the two guys are flying to Texas together but couldn't remember what happened so off to google  and found this:

https://bigbangtheory.fandom.com/wiki/The_Friendship_Turbulence

Bernie then wants to know why Sheldon is also so mean to her husband.[...]Sheldon then gives Bernadette details of ten years of his torture by Howard. When they first met, he said that Sheldon looked like a cross between C3P0 and Pee-Wee Herman, C3-Pee Wee Herman. Since then, he has also messed up his lecture slide presentations and subscribed Sheldon to inappropriate magazines. 

Thanks, I don't think I've ever seen that episode all the way through.

[DrSpaceman73]

I didn't have a problem with any of the characters dressing up as the others. 

They all took it way too seriously and just need to get over it. 

When Howard dressed up like Sheldon, and then Bernie became involved by defending Howard, they became fair game for the impersonations as well. 

[Kanner]

15 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

Not sure if this is what Kanner is referencing but I remembered that Sheldon claimed that Howard started everything in the episode where the two guys are flying to Texas together but couldn't remember what happened so off to google  and found this:

https://bigbangtheory.fandom.com/wiki/The_Friendship_Turbulence

Bernie then wants to know why Sheldon is also so mean to her husband.[...]Sheldon then gives Bernadette details of ten years of his torture by Howard. When they first met, he said that Sheldon looked like a cross between C3P0 and Pee-Wee Herman, C3-Pee Wee Herman. Since then, he has also messed up his lecture slide presentations and subscribed Sheldon to inappropriate magazines. 

Thanks for the assist.  That is what I was referring to.

[proserpina65]

18 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

Not sure if this is what Kanner is referencing but I remembered that Sheldon claimed that Howard started everything in the episode where the two guys are flying to Texas together but couldn't remember what happened so off to google  and found this:

https://bigbangtheory.fandom.com/wiki/The_Friendship_Turbulence

Bernie then wants to know why Sheldon is also so mean to her husband.[...]Sheldon then gives Bernadette details of ten years of his torture by Howard. When they first met, he said that Sheldon looked like a cross between C3P0 and Pee-Wee Herman, C3-Pee Wee Herman. Since then, he has also messed up his lecture slide presentations and subscribed Sheldon to inappropriate magazines. 

The C3-Pee Wee Herman thing doesn't sound particularly bad to me.  The other stuff, didn't a lot of that happen after Sheldon started insulting Howard's education and career?  It's all rather childish, imo, but Sheldon certainly wasn't owed an apology.  Neither were Howard and Bernadette, for that matter.

[BlossomCulp]

1 minute ago, proserpina65 said:

The other stuff, didn't a lot of that happen after Sheldon started insulting Howard's education and career?  It's all rather childish, imo, but Sheldon certainly wasn't owed an apology. 

Howard didn't really deny that he started things though.  I am not defending Sheldon but his comments about Howard are pretty par for the course in terms of how he thinks about and treats everyone.  Howard though targeted Sheldon in a spiteful and pretty malicious way that impacted on how he did his job and also meant he received things in the mail that he found distasteful - to say the least.  I think Howard really did realize that he'd taken things too far at the start of their friendship and regretted it.  I liked that episode because it had Sheldon acknowledge that he was jealous of Howard getting to go to space.  Finally admit it!  

[rmontro]

On 10/26/2018 at 1:27 PM, iMonrey said:

I laughed when Bernie said that her brothers once made her inhale helium, and that she tried to cry for help but the only one who could hear her was the dog

Very funny joke.  Reminds me of another favorite scene where Bernadette said something excitedly in a high pitch, and you could hear a dog howl off in the distance.  Howard took note of it, but Bernadette was oblivious.

[CherryAmes]

On 10/30/2018 at 11:12 AM, proserpina65 said:

Neither were Howard and Bernadette, for that matter.

I'm on the fence with this,  in some ways I agree that it would have been better to laugh it off and move on - which was what Howard wanted, on the other hand I'm of the opinion that if it is obvious you've struck a nerve and someone has been hurt by what you did then an apology, or at least a heart to heart talk might be in order.  I know if I was trying to get a reaction from someone and that reaction ended up not being what I expected - I mean I'd like to believe that Amy and Sheldon did not intend to hurt someone's feelings here - then I'd want to smooth things over.

[proserpina65]

On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 11:17 AM, BlossomCulp said:

Howard didn't really deny that he started things though.  I am not defending Sheldon but his comments about Howard are pretty par for the course in terms of how he thinks about and treats everyone.  Howard though targeted Sheldon in a spiteful and pretty malicious way that impacted on how he did his job and also meant he received things in the mail that he found distasteful - to say the least.  I think Howard really did realize that he'd taken things too far at the start of their friendship and regretted it.  I liked that episode because it had Sheldon acknowledge that he was jealous of Howard getting to go to space.  Finally admit it!  

Sheldon did cost Howard his security clearance at one point, so he also impacted Howard's job.

[mojoween]

The worst part about Bernadette whinging about people making fun of her voice is that the show didn’t make Melissa speak like that when she was first on the show.  I miss that Bernadette.

[CherryAmes]

3 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Sheldon did cost Howard his security clearance at one point, so he also impacted Howard's job.

Unintentionally though.   More guilty of running off at the mouthisitis then anything else.

[Homily]

14 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

Unintentionally though.   More guilty of running off at the mouthisitis then anything else.

He was being honest.  Howard should have known better than to expect anything else from Sheldon!  

[proserpina65]

16 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

Unintentionally though.   More guilty of running off at the mouthisitis then anything else.

Oh, I agree with both you and Homily on that.  Sheldon wasn't trying to screw Howard over in that particular case. 

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, Homily said:

He was being honest.  Howard should have known better than to expect anything else from Sheldon!  

If you do something wrong and someone else tattles on you, whether accidentally, honestly answering a question, or even out of petty vengeance, you have nobody to blame but yourself.  And I say that as someone who was once fired because someone tattled on me for doing something everybody else did. Still my fault.

[BravoAddict72]

On 10/26/2018 at 7:57 PM, CleoCaesar said:

To me (and many others) Sheldon is very clearly somewhere on the autism spectrum. The inability to understand social cues, the inability to understand sarcasm, even stuff like an obsession with trains and flags, the obsessiveness of his hobbies, rigidity, the list goes on. He's on the high-functioning end of it, sure, but definitely not "neurotypical", in short. But the writers have always been deliberately wishy-washy on the subject as a way to keep making fun of him and not have to get criticism on that front.

The second I saw Howard mocking Sheldon's robotic speech and stilted communication style, I wondered if people on this forum and others were going to get offended and accuse the show of mocking people with autism.

I have a Sheldon at home. I think he has Aspergers, which is on the high functioning end of Autism. My son has it and is socially ackward and cannot really ever read the room. Once he finds a subject he likes, he memorizes everything he can about it. For him, it's hockey. He knows every stat and recprd for the entire NHL going back to the beginning. He is super smart but needs schedules and plans to feel comfortable. We always call him our little Sheldon.

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, BravoAddict72 said:

I have a Sheldon at home. I think he has Aspergers, which is on the high functioning end of Autism. My son has it and is socially ackward and cannot really ever read the room. Once he finds a subject he likes, he memorizes everything he can about it. For him, it's hockey. He knows every stat and recprd for the entire NHL going back to the beginning. He is super smart but needs schedules and plans to feel comfortable. We always call him our little Sheldon.

It never occurred to me until reading your post, @BravoAddict72, that most likely the character of Sheldon was originally developed by someone with a close family member who "cannot ever really read a room."

[SmithW6079]

After reading the comments here, I thought maybe I was too hard on Sheldon, but then I rewatched the exchange between Amy and Sheldon:

Quote

"They laughed at me, Amy, in a derisive way, not in the instructive way I laugh at them when they're being stupid." (emphasis mine)

So, fuck you, Sheldon, and your whining about getting picked on.

[Gothish520]

On 10/28/2018 at 5:47 PM, CherryAmes said:

They have had a few more recent episodes though where Sheldon and Howard seem to have made their peace with each other.  If this episode had been from an earlier season it would have been a lot more understandable that Howard was doing it in a mean spirited "get back at Sheldon" way.  But I think he really just did it because he thought it would be funny.  I don't think he actually believed Sheldon would be as upset by it as he was.  I'll have to watch this episode again but my feeling was that Sheldon was prepared to just let it go but when Amy got involved and got angry on his behalf then got into things with Bernadette that's when things took a turn for the worse.  Still and all I don't really care I watch this show to laugh and I thought Howard as  Sheldon was funny and Sheldon and Amy as Howard and Bernadette was even funnier.

Absolutely agree. Everyone was behaving badly and they were all hilarious.