S01.E06: Unexpected

[Gothish520]

Delilah telling Eddie the truth does lead me to believe that she still has deep feelings for him. She said she couldn't lie to him, and I'm sure it's because she knows how hurt he was to think that she and Jon were still sleeping together. She's obviously not after his money, and if she was worried about her children and how they would react to Jon not being the father, she could have easily kept it to herself and let everyone continue believe that he was.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

But she's doing more than that. She's hiding aspects of his finances: I can't tell if there's an insurance policy or other account that lists Delilah's name. And she keeps look at some other random list with people's names on them? What are these documents, and why does she refuse to give them to the intended recipients? Beyond frustrating at this point. 

The list of names that Ashley has looked at is a separate insurance policy that was hidden behind the painting in Jon’s home office. It names Gary, Eddie, Rome, and a woman named Barbara as the beneficiaries. Delilah’s name is not on that policy. They showed Ashley looking at the policy again in this episode right before Ashley lied and said that someone named Barbara called (Ashley wanted to see if Delilah recognized the name or reacted in any way). It was the show’s way of reminding us who Ashley was talking about. 

[debraran]

2 hours ago, topanga said:

But she's doing more than that. She's hiding aspects of his finances: I can't tell if there's an insurance policy or other account that lists Delilah's name. And she keeps look at some other random list with people's names on them? What are these documents, and why does she refuse to give them to the intended recipients? Beyond frustrating at this point. 

Can it be that she helped him (as in deleting files soon after death) and doesn't want to go to jail either?

[izabella]

26 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Delilah telling Eddie the truth does lead me to believe that she still has deep feelings for him. She said she couldn't lie to him, and I'm sure it's because she knows how hurt he was to think that she and Jon were still sleeping together. She's obviously not after his money, and if she was worried about her children and how they would react to Jon not being the father, she could have easily kept it to herself and let everyone continue believe that he was.

I've been kicking a thought around in my head, and I'm probably way off base, but Delilah lies and manipulates people so damned much, that I want to share my speculation.

Could the baby actually (or possibly) be Jon's, but Delilah told Eddie it was his because, as she told Ashley, she doesn't want to raise a baby by herself?   This way, only Eddie thinks it's his baby so no consequences for Delilah.  He would naturally would want to be there for her to help raise it so she won't have to do it alone.

I wouldn't put it past her to lie to Eddie about this in order to get support.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, KnoxForPres said:

I can see why you’d feel that way about Regina and share some of that too. My own desire for more Regina stems from I feel she and Rome are the characters I’m most interested in. 

So much so I could tell I’m on a different wavelength than the show runners this week. When Regina found the note (pause- I take issue with this plot contrivance of her finding his suicide note. For dogs sake did no one ever have parents growing up in this show?  You destroy evidence. These asshats left joints on the kitchen counter when mom and pops were out of town I guess).  But anyway-for for the first time I was choked up at Rome and his confession of sadness.  I felt the actor nailed it. If I was over that show it would have been end scene cut to previews for next episode. 

The showrunners think I’m more invested in Eddie and Delilah and cut to her (fucking weepy looking with the D Face) even at his concert. They also think I want to hear Ed sing like they did at the Peach Pit on 90210. For a 43 year old Delilah is quite reactive. I’m pretty sure I’d sit and really think things through before revealing to Eddie he’s the father. Telling that with the caveat of “we keep this to ourselves” is not something to be handled backstage at a rando bar. 

Wonder if the writers are sitting around thinking how they’ll do the reveal. A senior writer will have a moment of clarity and go I know!!!  Delilah will get a paternity test and Theo will find it amongst his report card!  That’s what all adults do with shit they want to make sure no one finds!

This is exactly my problem. With each episode it becomes more and more apparent that this is the Delilah and Eddie show and that is just not something I want to watch. Obviously this is a show about relationships and if the show runner views Eddie/Delilah and Gary/Maggie as great love stories than his view of what makes a good relationship is so vastly different than mine that there is probably no point in me continuing to watch. 

If the show wanted to take a real honest look at why Eddie and Delilah chose to cheat or why their marriages fell apart I would be 100% in. But instead they are shuffling aside the much more compelling relationships to focus on immature assholes. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Guest

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 minutes ago, debraran said:

Can it be that she helped him (as in deleting files soon after death) and doesn't want to go to jail either?

In his letter to Delilah, the part we were shown in the first episode specifically said that Ashley didn’t know what Jon had done because he didn’t want to implicate her, so whatever he did was at least somewhat shady. 

[ParadoxLost]

I was delighted when Delilah told Eddie that the baby was Jon's.  That was more about Eddie being a cheating jackass who is devastated that his married lover wasn't faithful.  That is a gender reversal of that trope.  I do wonder if Eddie hasn't been sleeping with his wife or if he has a double standard.

I didn't really believe they would stick with that because it didn't make sense Delilah knew for certain.  I don't know if  I believe her that she knows for sure that Eddie is the father.  If she wasn't sleeping with Jon, it was probably because Jon wasn't initiating anything because he was preoccupied with whatever caused him to commit suicide.  If anyone actually gave a shit that she cheated on her husband, that would be the excuse that made her more sympathetic.  But as it is, I can see her not being certain and telling Eddie that he is the father.

I can already see the wheels turning that they will try to pretend for her kids that they fell in love after Jom died and are going to raise his and Delilah's kid together.

At this point, I'm rooting for Jon's secret to drag out for a while and Eddie to get divorced and marry Delilah fast. losing or forgoing alimony to get it done.  Then the two of them will find out Jon died bankrupt and have neither of the breadwinners they cheated on to finance the life they have become accustomed to.

[KnoxForPres]

36 minutes ago, Dani said:

This is exactly my problem. With each episode it becomes more and more apparent that this is the Delilah and Eddie show and that is just not something I want to watch. Obviously this is a show about relationships and if the show runner views Eddie/Delilah and Gary/Maggie as great love stories than his view of what makes a good relationship is so vastly different than mine that there is probablno point in me continuing to watch. 

If the show wanted to take a real honest look at why Eddie and Delilah chose to cheat or why their marriages fell apart I would be 100% in. But instead they are shuffling aside the much more compelling relationships to focus on immature assholes. 

Great point- as would I. As it stands they’re immature assholes indeed  and I don’t care either. 

To the Ashley bit they’ve given us zero insight (sans our good friend here screenshotting the letter) that it’s very hard for me to care. I feel very confused but not intrigued. Jon is dead and we are not attached to him since the show really has given no reason to be. Why would I care if he has a mistress or gambling problem or weird amounts of debt?  His wife was cheating so it pans out a shitty marriage if so. I hope the show proves me wrong but I have such detachment from Jon it will be hard to care no matter the reveal. I don’t know him. 

[debraran]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

In his letter to Delilah, the part we were shown in the first episode specifically said that Ashley didn’t know what Jon had done because he didn’t want to implicate her, so whatever he did was at least somewhat shady. 

Thanks for your good memory, but why did the first thing she did (after yelling) was delete things from the computer. Hard drive, no, but still....odd. I think she knew something. That behavior wasn't normal.

Edited November 3, 2018 by debraran

[ams1001]

22 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

She didn’t just see the package or open the closed box. She literally unsealed the newly delivered package.  This pissed me off and still pisses me off.  I mean, who does that???

 

I was looking at my computer and I missed her actually opening the box. I just saw it open on the counter. That would piss me off, too. 

Edited November 3, 2018 by ams1001

[Dowel Jones]

9 hours ago, DFWGina said:

Yeah - I definitely need to know WHY she is hiding all of this from Jon's family.

I think that, despite the cutting of the scene where she rushed out to the balcony, the fact is that she actually pushed Jon over the edge.

[topanga]

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I think that, despite the cutting of the scene where she rushed out to the balcony, the fact is that she actually pushed Jon over the edge.

So who wrote Jon’s suicide note? 

[sigmaforce86]

The writers better have a helluva plan for Ashley's story line.  It is the least interesting and most frustrating part of the show.  YMMV of course but to me there are two separate things going on........What is Jon hiding, what did he do with his finances, why did he have mail sent to the box she opened and how will it affect Delilah, the kids and the rest of the gang?  OK that's not a bad plot and could be very interesting both in the explanations of the "why/what" and how any fallout plays out.  But part II is that it's Ashley doing both the hiding of what Jon might have done and the investigating of the things she didn't know about before - why?  She's not interesting to watch she's sort of one note skulking around half endearing herself to Delilah as a helper half screwing with Delilah's future and by extension Jon's kids.  When really any of the gang could have taken this on with or without Delilah's knowledge and the part about what was Jon up to would have been just as interesting if not more interesting.

So basically ranting a bit to say that Ashley is an annoying character and, while Jon may have had secrets that make him less of a saint than his family and friends thought he was; having her be the linchpin for that story line takes it from "interesting mystery" to "oh my god get it over with already"

[izabella]

It's also annoying that Ashley is a nothing character.  We know nothing about who she is, why she is so invested in Jon and this family, what her life is like, why she is constantly showing up, where she goes...does she have a family?  Why is she all up in this family's business?

We've all had jobs, but I doubt any of us would be in any way involved like this if our boss jumped off a balcony.

[possibilities]

I also wonder what happened to Ashley's job now that the person she assisted is no longer there. She's acting like there's been no change at all.

Edited November 4, 2018 by possibilities

[HazelEyes4325]

I finally made myself watch this episode.  Honestly, I was thinking of giving up on this show (even though I had made that stupid 1.5 seasons + 1 episode vow) because I just detest everything about the affair and the fact that this show is so (strangely, unfittingly) Delilah-centric.  But, I did it and I'm glad I did, even if it did ultimately make me even less confident in where it is going.

First off, THANK YOU for finally giving us more Rome and Regina!  Their story should have been front and center from the beginning.  Also, it (sort of happened) for me.  I didn't *cry* but I definitely teared up in the scene where Regina finds the suicide note.  It was so wonderfully performed (I may have a bit of girl crush on Christina Moses now) and surprisingly well-written that it *almost* made up for the rest of the show.

And for anyone who found Shelly to be unrealistic--I found her triggering.  She was pretty much a blend of my late mother and my late mother-in-law.  This might be why I'm kind of gaga for Regina right now.  I GET her!

So, what bothered me about this episode:

There were a lot of little details that just stood out as WRONG to me.  Isn't Delilah supposed to be the interior decorator for the restaurant?  If so, why is she folding laundry on her kitchen island (why is she doing that?) while *Regina* is the one making all the design decisions?  Another note: I took one general psych class in college and I clearly remember discussing night terrors.  So, why is Maggie--A PSYCHOLOGIST--so mystified by them?  Also, how did they get a 7-year old into a bar?  I know these are inconsequential sorts of things in the big picture, but there are so many of them that it robs me of confidence in the greater storytelling of the show.  If I can't trust Nash to get these little things right (or, you know, read a calendar) how can I trust him to craft characters for me to care about?

I was glad that there was minimal Maggie and Gary here because if I think about their relationship, it just seems more wrong to me.  It's basically a guy telling a woman he just met how to live her life.  Yeah, that's a simplistic rendering, but it IS what it is at its core.  I also kind of feel that this should be Maggie's story but the show is set up that it should be Gary's and DJ Nash can't really figure out how to tell the story.

I'm unhappily confused by the Gary/Delilah relationship.  First of all, all this show needs is Delilah summoning yet another man to her beck and call.  Plus, there is just something weird about it.  Is Gary supposed to be the one to step into the Jon role of taking care of everything?  It seemed strange to me for her to call Gary to take her to the OB for a number of reasons.  First, that puts him in a very awkward position as both Eddie and Jon are (were) his best friends.  Secondly, bringing a guy to an OB office is the sort of manufactured awkwardness that happens all the time in TV and rarely has any purpose.  It would have made more sense for her to call Regina, although I do get that Regina was busy doing her part AND Delilah's part for the restaurant.  Heck, calling *Maggie* probably would have made the most sense of all.  She is Delilah's insta-friend and she had no personal involvement with either of the possible fathers (well, besides apparently putting on quite the sound show for Eddie.  Again, that's a pretty tired trick in TV shows and there wasn't really a reason for it here).  Plus, as a psychologist/therapist, she probably would have been the emotionally strongest person for Delilah at that time.  But no, Gary is who she calls.  And it didn't make any sense to me.

Here's the thing with Eddie.  I actually adore Eddie--when Delilah is not part of the picture.  Yeah, he's a fuck-up, but I think he's a fuck-up who could have a promising story.  Then, Delilah enters and we're thrown into the soapiest of soaplands and I lose all interest.  The best thing this show could do is put Delilah and kids on a plane to France and let everyone else get on with their story.

Guess what, I still don't care about Ashley, "Barbara Morgan," or what Jon was up to.  Also, watching Stephanie Szostak and Christina Ochoa in a scene together is just excruciating as neither one can seem to act their way out of a paper bag.  Both actresses do this thing where they deliver their lines like no one else is in the scene.  It's annoying when Delilah is in a scene with anyone else, but it is downright bizarre when it is Delilah and Ashley in a scene, alone, together.

I'm really at that point where I don't know if I should continue with this show.  There is so  much that is good about it, but every time we head towards those things, Nash redirects us to the things that are just so bad.

ETA: Is Maggie a therapist or a psychologist?  I can't remember, but it really doesn't matter...both call for a shitload of psych classes and either one would know all about night terrors.

Edited November 4, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[Guest]

2 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

 

I'm really at that point where I don't know if I should continue with this show.  There is so  much that is good about it, but every time we head towards those things, Nash redirects us to the things that are just so bad.

ETA: Is Maggie a therapist or a psychologist?  I can't remember, but it really doesn't matter...both call for a shitload of psych classes and either one would know all about night terrors.

I feel the same way. I think I am at the tipping point where the show annoys me more than it entertains me. 

According to the pilot Maggie is a clinical psychologist focusing on depression. This show makes no sense logically. 

[debraran]

I don't know a lot about cancer but is it logical to feel so good 3 months from doom?  I know with some cancers, pancreatic for one, some famous people were diagnosed because of pain and died 3 months later. She doesn't seem to have any symptoms.  From what I read that is because of where tumors might be. So maybe that is why that visit with doctor was so weird, she's given a folder to look through but really where it went is important. Bones and brain, very common with breast are painful.   I know this isn't "ER" but having family with breast cancer, I hope they do a better job of showing options and not just Maggie not wanting chemo.  They should discuss why more, the success rate. Having her seem like "I keep my eyebrows" is just not funny to me. If it's hopeless fine, if it's 25%, but Gary talks about "winning" A good conversation would be nice.

[doodlebug]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:10 AM, HazelEyes4325 said:

I was a little blown away by that statistic and had to look it up and, wow, it was true.  And then I read further and it still doesn't hold water.  (As an aside, apparently my son would be considered "unplanned" by this study as we were not planning to try for #2 until the next month...so, my personal rate is 50% among my pregnancies that went to term.  I guess I'm average?).  Anyway:

1 - 50% is a blanket statement and does not hold water across all demographics.  It's like the mythical "50% divorce rate."  That's not really correct when you look at the numbers.

2 - Demographics plays a HUGE part in this number.  The group with the lowest percentage of unwanted pregnancies are white, middle and upper-class women in their 40s...so, you know, Delilah.  The highest rate is among low-income women, ages 20-24. 

3 - And while fertility does start to decrease as women enter their 40s, it's not so much that it makes an impact here.  The biggest impact is the use of long-term contraceptives (such as our friend, the IUD).  The groups who have access to health insurance and doctors who tell them about their options have a far, far lower rate of unwanted pregnancies.  Also, since Delilah was not just a "white middle class in her 40s" but a woman who had multiple sexual partners, it seems even less likely that she would be lax on the birth control.

Since this study supports the idea that Delilah is precisely the sort of woman who would *not* end up in this position, my disbelief remains unsuspended.

While it is true that Delilah is in a very low risk group for an unplanned pregnancy, she is not in a 'no risk' group.  The only no risk groups have had hysterectomies or been through menopause. I've practiced obstetrics for more than 35 years and can vouch for the fact that it is not impossible for someone in Delilah's circumstances to end up unexpectedly pregnant.  I don't find it unbelievable at all.

[nexxie]

All the Delilah hate is really interesting - supposedly we dislike those who have traits we dislike in ourselves, so what is it about Delilah?!

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I've practiced obstetrics for more than 35 years and can vouch for the fact that it is not impossible for someone in Delilah's circumstances to end up unexpectedly pregnant.  I don't find it unbelievable at all.

I'd find it believable that a woman in Delilah's circumstances would be unexpectedly pregnant if she believed her birth control was working or that she had previous fertility issues .  What kills the believability for me in this particular instance is what we have been given in show cannon text: 

1) Delilah is not having sex with her husband

2) Delilah is having regular sex with her lover

3) Delilah apparently is not using any other birth control since no other method was mentioned

4) Delilah also does not mention that she is menopausal or have any other medical condition that would lead her believe her fertility is not an issue and

5) we were explicitly told the condom broke.

With Nos. 1 -4 present, then when number 5 happened, that alone should have made her consider pregnancy was at least a possibility at the time it happened.  Most people when confronted with a broken condom do the "oh shit" math because pregnancy is the first thing that jumps to the forebrain.

Honestly, at this point I believe Delilah may have hoped she'd get pregnant.  Even though the show has been vague to the point of non-existent on their revelations about what was really happening in Delilah and Jon's marriage, I can't help but feel that everything Eddie related wrt to Delilah is just a massive "fuck you" to Jon rather than any deep feelings or Eddie and Jon's suicide messed all that up.

2 hours ago, nexxie said:

All the Delilah hate is really interesting - supposedly we dislike those who have traits we dislike in ourselves, so what is it about Delilah?

I personally have two main issue with Delilah  -- the writing for her and the actress.  Neither one is doing Delilah any favors and this is why I have a hard time liking the character.  At the most basic she just feels like a really dishonest and passive person.  Why did she have an affair with Eddie?  Does she really love him?  Is the kid really his or did she lie again?  Why is she allowed to coast on her actions? Why does everyone coddle her?  I feel like the writing wants me to be sympathetic toward her but I can't.  So far the show has shown that she has had a pretty good life with her husband.  It has given no real motivation as to why she'd cheat on him except, what bored wife who got snapped at once? And I think some of that has to do with the actress.  She just doesn't infuse any depth in Delilah.  All she does is cry it seems like.  So in addition to an unsympathetic storyline for her, she just isn't really delivering anything to rise above to make her sympathetic.

Contrast with Eddie who is just as much a liar and cheat as she is, but at least he got some real blowback.  And David Giuntoli gives Eddie some layers and the show has at least tried to show some motivation as to why he would cheat on his wife.  We know he is a deeply unhappy man in his present situation, with his marriage, with his life.  And he seems like he is really in love with Delilah.  Not forgivable, but understandable and DG sells it.

[KnoxForPres]

2 hours ago, nexxie said:

All the Delilah hate is really interesting - supposedly we dislike those who have traits we dislike in ourselves, so what is it about Delilah?!

Co-sign @DearEvette.  It’s the actress and the writing for me as well.  They made a major casting error which is a real damn shame as she’s pretty much the “star”.   I’m confident I could feel different about the character, even keeping the writing the same, if the actor could sell the scenes. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by KnoxForPres

[HazelEyes4325]

3 hours ago, nexxie said:

All the Delilah hate is really interesting - supposedly we dislike those who have traits we dislike in ourselves, so what is it about Delilah?!

I do think that, sometimes, we don't like characters because they remind us of ourselves.  However, other times we don't like them because they are just shit characters who are badly performed.  For me, Delilah falls into the latter category.

I could actually tolerate her more if this were a different story.  I don't know if I'd like her, but I might be sympathetic toward her. 

The problems with her here are that her story makes no sense, the character is neither written nor performed in a way that makes her completely realistic, and there are too many sloppy writing issues with her.

But what I *resent* her for is that she is taking up so much space in this show.  If Gary, Rome, and Eddie's stories were thinner and they needed something to fill out the 42 minutes each week, that would be one thing.  But those other stories, which have great potential and any one of them could be television shows on their own, are being shoved aside for Delilah, who really has nothing to do with the overall story arc.  She's not even sort of a unifying character; in other words, she's not the hub of the wheel connecting all the other spokes.  You could take Delilah completely out of this show and the main story would be unaffected (and most likely improved).

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

I'd find it believable that a woman in Delilah's circumstances would be unexpectedly pregnant if she believed her birth control was working or that she had previous fertility issues .  What kills the believability for me in this particular instance is what we have been given in show cannon text: 

1) Delilah is not having sex with her husband

2) Delilah is having regular sex with her lover

3) Delilah apparently is not using any other birth control since no other method was mentioned

4) Delilah also does not mention that she is menopausal or have any other medical condition that would lead her believe her fertility is not an issue and

5) we were explicitly told the condom broke.

With Nos. 1 -4 present, then when number 5 happened, that alone should have made her consider pregnancy was at least a possibility at the time it happened.  Most people when confronted with a broken condom do the "oh shit" math because pregnancy is the first thing that jumps to the forebrain.

Honestly, at this point I believe Delilah may have hoped she'd get pregnant.  Even though the show has been vague to the point of non-existent on their revelations about what was really happening in Delilah and Jon's marriage, I can't help but feel that everything Eddie related wrt to Delilah is just a massive "fuck you" to Jon rather than any deep feelings or Eddie and Jon's suicide messed all that up.

5

5

This is where I am.  Perhaps (probably) it is another case of lackadaisical writing, but what the show has given us makes this pregnancy nonsensical.  Now, let's say they had gone with the excuse that Delilah was on the pill and was taking antibiotics, I could probably buy that more easily (even though I guess it isn't actually a thing that antibiotics will mess up birth control.  BUT my mind wouldn't immediately call bullshit on it).

I don't know if I can go so far as to say I think Delilah *wanted* to get pregnant.  How should I put this?   I can't see Nash going down that route.  On one hand, I can see Delilah being manipulative enough to do it, but I don't think that is what the show wants her to be (even though that is how she comes off).  If that were the road they were taking, they would have to stop trying to make us love Delilah.  Well, they should probably stop that anyway, because it is backfiring in a very big way.

Edited November 4, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[biakbiak]

I hate most of the characters on this show so I am close to giving up. Rome, Regina and occasionally Gary are the only ones I can stand. I also don’t mind Catherine but she isn’t on much.

I get that not all psychologists have experience with all issues but Maggie not being concerned when Eddie mentions his 7 year old has night terrors and her being a complete mess when confronted with it makes absolutely no sense. Also, the first time you hang out with a kid is not the time to start telling him to question his parents rules. Her character blows.

Deliah, Eddie, the baby, and Ashley should all die in a fire. 

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I'd find it believable that a woman in Delilah's circumstances would be unexpectedly pregnant if she believed her birth control was working or that she had previous fertility issues .  What kills the believability for me in this particular instance is what we have been given in show cannon text: 

1) Delilah is not having sex with her husband

2) Delilah is having regular sex with her lover

3) Delilah apparently is not using any other birth control since no other method was mentioned

4) Delilah also does not mention that she is menopausal or have any other medical condition that would lead her believe her fertility is not an issue and

5) we were explicitly told the condom broke.

With Nos. 1 -4 present, then when number 5 happened, that alone should have made her consider pregnancy was at least a possibility at the time it happened.  Most people when confronted with a broken condom do the "oh shit" math because pregnancy is the first thing that jumps to the forebrain

And, for most people, the second thing that jumps to the forebrain is the location of the nearest all-night drugstore that carries Plan B. In this day and age, 'the condom broke' is not an excuse.  There is still a viable backup method and it should be used (and anyone using condoms alone should keep it on hand).

I don't disagree that many, if not most women Delilah's age are responsible contraceptors; but, believe me, there are plenty of people who have a laissez faire attitude about some pretty significant issues including people engaging in extramarital relationships who manage to get pregnant, contract STDS and pass them along and otherwise screw up royally. I see them all the time and it is just as frustrating in real life to deal with someone who doesn't want to be pregnant, who is in a situation where pregnancy is a really bad idea, and, yet, doesn't use birth control and expects everyone to feel sorry that she's had such 'bad luck'.

I think it is at least in part the actress, but Delilah strikes me as one of those women who passively allows stuff to happen to her and then plays the victim.  'Oh woe is me, my husband doesn't pay enough attention to me so, rather than getting counselling, I'll fall into bed with one of his friends.  What else could I do?  Poor, poor me."  I really get the impression that Delilah likes to play the role of the put-upon victim of circumstances and taking responsibility for her life and her choices is not her thing.  And I know from experience that there are a number of people out there who behave like this.  It does seem like TPTB do think that her attitude and behavior is somehow sympathetic and that the audience will be supportive of her helpless behavior, but I think they are mistaken about that.  

[HazelEyes4325]

1 minute ago, doodlebug said:

It does seem like TPTB do think that her attitude and behavior is somehow sympathetic and that the audience will be supportive of her helpless behavior, but I think they are mistaken about that.  

 

So true.  They haven't given me a single reason to like Delilah, yet they seem to expect that I will be completely sympathetic towards her.  An easy way to fix at least one of the major problems of this show would be for them just to give up on the idea that Delilah is a good person and let her be unlikable.  Let her be manipulative and self-centered and then let the story go from there.  They need to stop trying to get the audience to feel something that just doesn't naturally come from the story.

[debraran]

Article trying to give Ashley a break :

https://www.bustle.com/p/why-did-ashley-hide-jons-note-on-million-little-things-shes-acting-out-of-love-says-the-shows-creator-13026808?fbclid=IwAR0r7NMTbnEd7h2uX6OkuNtJWPmuzhFOeuhexsavIEuv_jNuFsCp96rmtww

I never thought affair but if she's his kid, that deception probably stumps Delilah's. ; )  Time will tell.

[Clanstarling]

10 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

So true.  They haven't given me a single reason to like Delilah, yet they seem to expect that I will be completely sympathetic towards her.  An easy way to fix at least one of the major problems of this show would be for them just to give up on the idea that Delilah is a good person and let her be unlikable.  Let her be manipulative and self-centered and then let the story go from there.  They need to stop trying to get the audience to feel something that just doesn't naturally come from the story.

It seems like the only "reasons" they've provided is that she's a widow and is now raising her kids w/o a father. Which, is a general reason for sympathy, but it isn't enough for the rest of the story. I hate to rag on actors, but maybe if they had someone as strong as Grace in that role, it might be better. Guilioni as Eddie has been far more likeable even though he isn't likeable - if that makes sense. And it's not just that he's pretty. He's grown into a pretty good actor.

I think part of my problem with Delilah is that she seems to just let things happen to her. Other than deciding not to abort, she hasn't really taken control of anything in her life. Not her finances, not her kids, apparently not her birth control. She just wrings her hands and someone steps up to take care of her. She's a cipher in her own life. And that's just boring.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Clanstarling

[doodlebug]

4 minutes ago, debraran said:

Article trying to give Ashley a break :

https://www.bustle.com/p/why-did-ashley-hide-jons-note-on-million-little-things-shes-acting-out-of-love-says-the-shows-creator-13026808?fbclid=IwAR0r7NMTbnEd7h2uX6OkuNtJWPmuzhFOeuhexsavIEuv_jNuFsCp96rmtww

I never thought affair but if she's his kid, that deception probably stumps Delilah's. ; )  Time will tell.

Christina Ochoa, who plays Ashley, is 33 years old, Ron Livingston, who played Jon is 51.  There's no way Jon is any older that Ron, and, since they've established Delilah as 43, he might be younger.  Ashley doesn't look to be under 25; she looks around 30ish to me.  So, if she is going to be Jon's daughter, he would've had to have been in high school or college when she was conceived.  Or junior high if he and Delilah were the same age.  If she is his daughter, she would've been conceived long before he got involved with Delilah, so it would make no sense he would hide her.

[HazelEyes4325]

14 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Christina Ochoa, who plays Ashley, is 33 years old, Ron Livingston, who played Jon is 51.  There's no way Jon is any older that Ron, and, since they've established Delilah as 43, he might be younger.  Ashley doesn't look to be under 25; she looks around 30ish to me.  So, if she is going to be Jon's daughter, he would've had to have been in high school or college when she was conceived.  Or junior high if he and Delilah were the same age.  If she is his daughter, she would've been conceived long before he got involved with Delilah, so it would make no sense he would hide her.

Replying in the speculation thread.

[nexxie]

The first time I watched this show my comment was that the characters didn’t seem very likeable - and they still don’t for some reason that I can’t quite put my finger on. I don’t hate any of them or love any of them - but I do want to find out what Jon was hiding.

[KnoxForPres]

28 minutes ago, nexxie said:

The first time I watched this show my comment was that the characters didn’t seem very likeable - and they still don’t for some reason that I can’t quite put my finger on. I don’t hate any of them or love any of them - but I do want to find out what Jon was hiding.

Do you like Rome?  Understand if not love, I’m not there yet either, but I feel he is a very likeable character and they’ve done a good job with his writing and enjoy the actor. 

I hate Gary and Maggie onscreen together so much it’s probably unhealthy.  It’s like if Loreali Gilmore died and came back as a couple (though Graham played it so much better I feel kind of bad comparing).  

I think the reason you (and lots of us) feel that way is because they introduce huge stories and almost time warp them. We can’t dig in and learn about these characters. They’re very one dimensional even though massive shit is happening. But it’s happening at breakneck speed and we are on our couches like “okay?”  

Edited November 4, 2018 by KnoxForPres

[nexxie]

6 minutes ago, KnoxForPres said:

Do you like Rome?  Understand if not love, I’m not there yet either, but I feel he is a very likeable character and they’ve done a good job with his writing and enjoy the actor. 

I hate Gary and Maggie onscreen together so much it’s probably unhealthy.  It’s like if Loreali Gilmore died and came back as a couple (though Graham played it so much better I feel kind of bad comparing).  

I think the reason you (and lots of us) feel that way is because they introduce huge stories and almost time warp them. We can’t dig in and learn about these characters. They’re very one dimensional even though massive shit is happening. But it’s happening at breakneck speed and we are on our couches like “okay?”  

Rome is probably the most likeable to me, and I am interested in his story. That said, I’m not feeling the connection between him and his wife - and maybe that’s just it; I’m not buying any of the relationships.

Gary and Maggie - yep, just no.

[HazelEyes4325]

On 11/1/2018 at 8:44 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Now Delilah and Eddie are going to tell everyone the baby is Jon's? How long will that last do you think?

 

I can only believe that the only people they are telling the "it's Jon's" to are the kids.  Gary, Maggie, Rome, and Regina (and Katherine!) are all smart people.  They know what is going on--especially Gary since he was Delilah's ride to the OB and I cannot believe a scenario where Delilah would even consider aborting Jon's baby. 

The sad part is, with the exception of Katherine, I doubt any of them actually care.

[nexxie]

I hope the baby is the spitting image of Eddie. HA!

[mythoughtis]

I got to the part where Delilah tells Ashley she is pregnant.  Then I admitted that I no longer like this show and deleted it from my DVR.  According to google, the network ordered additional episodes of the show.  I can’t figure out why. 

I like Rome.  Not sure about Regina. I  don’t like Eddie, Katherine, Ashley, Delilah.  I like Gary, although I should probably hate him for his bathroom sex antics. I liked Maggie for an episode or two - but that has passed.     I  have a lot of other programs on my DVR. No sense in wasting my time with this one. 

Edited November 5, 2018 by mythoughtis

[Guest]

13 hours ago, debraran said:

I don't know a lot about cancer but is it logical to feel so good 3 months from doom?  I know with some cancers, pancreatic for one, some famous people were diagnosed because of pain and died 3 months later. She doesn't seem to have any symptoms.  From what I read that is because of where tumors might be. So maybe that is why that visit with doctor was so weird, she's given a folder to look through but really where it went is important. Bones and brain, very common with breast are painful.   I know this isn't "ER" but having family with breast cancer, I hope they do a better job of showing options and not just Maggie not wanting chemo.  They should discuss why more, the success rate. Having her seem like "I keep my eyebrows" is just not funny to me. If it's hopeless fine, if it's 25%, but Gary talks about "winning" A good conversation would be nice.

It’s possible. Four months before my mom started hospice we took a three week trip to New Zealand from California. I was aware of her symptoms but you wouldn’t have known how sick she was by looking at her. Once she stopped Chemo she energy level was actually pretty good.

Maggie’s doctor told her that she would have 3 to 6 months before her symptoms progressed. I think in the last episode she said her odds of success with treatment was 30%. 

[KnoxForPres]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

It’s possible. Four months before my mom started hospice we took a three week trip to New Zealand from California. I was aware of her symptoms but you wouldn’t have known how sick she was by looking at her. Once she stopped Chemo she energy level was actually pretty good.

Maggie’s doctor told her that she would have 3 to 6 months before her symptoms progressed. I think in the last episode she said her odds of success with treatment was 30%. 

I love hearing you had that trip with your mom. 

[Gothish520]

I feel so lonely as I'm obviously the only one who loves this show, and I love it more with each episode! I am invested in all of the characters, even weepy Delilah, though she does bug sometimes. I'm fascinated by Ashley and can't wait to find out the truth behind her story and Jon's hidden issues. Honestly, the character that annoys me the most is Gary, but I still like him even though his thighs must be powerful from climbing on that high horse so often. 

I think I've said this before, but there is a lot about all of these characters that ring true for me. I don't watch tv for 100% reality and don't expect it, and I will have as much fun as anyone pointing out flaws and obviously ridiculous plot points. But just because something isn't likely to happen doesn't mean it can't happen, and if the writers want to have a 40-something year old woman be an idiot and get pregnant, so be it. It's certainly not even remotely out of the realm of possibility. Human beings do dumb shyte all the time.

This show is soapy fun and continues to surprise me, as I completely avoid spoilers and most speculation. I like the characters and the actors, and will continue to sit back and enjoy it for as long as it lasts. Who's with me? :D

[HazelEyes4325]

One thing that was really bothering me about this episode, but I didn't mention it because I thought I was crazy, is that I had a memory from the pilot of Rome tearing up his suicide note.  Well, I went back and checked it and, yes, I was crazy,  He just crumpled it up and threw it away.  But, here is my problem now: when shows are sloppy, I start getting even more nitpicky.  As I said, I'm crazy...I know it doesn't make sense.  I *should* become less nitpicky because the writing is all just so sloppy, but no...  Let's just say that if The Crown makes some stupid mistake, I would totally forgive it because it is so well written.  But with this show, which is full of continuity and common sense errors, I just become more desirous of quality.  And, yes, I know that doesn't make sense...  Anyway, now I'm wondering:

1 - Why the hell wouldn't you DESTROY a suicide note if you decided not to go through with it?

2 - Why don't Rome and Regina ever take their garbage out?

3- Why was Regina going through the garbage?

I'm really hoping that some of the midseason shows are worth watching because my mind may need a break from all this...

[Clanstarling]

48 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

 

1 - Why the hell wouldn't you DESTROY a suicide note if you decided not to go through with it?

2 - Why don't Rome and Regina ever take their garbage out?

3- Why was Regina going through the garbage?

 

Maybe she was finally throwing out the garbage?  Lol

Yeah, continuity and logic aren't this show's strong suit. But I like it anyway.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

One thing that was really bothering me about this episode, but I didn't mention it because I thought I was crazy, is that I had a memory from the pilot of Rome tearing up his suicide note.  Well, I went back and checked it and, yes, I was crazy,  He just crumpled it up and threw it away.  But, here is my problem now: when shows are sloppy, I start getting even more nitpicky.  As I said, I'm crazy...I know it doesn't make sense.  I *should* become less nitpicky because the writing is all just so sloppy, but no...  Let's just say that if The Crown makes some stupid mistake, I would totally forgive it because it is so well written.  But with this show, which is full of continuity and common sense errors, I just become more desirous of quality.  And, yes, I know that doesn't make sense...  Anyway, now I'm wondering:

1 - Why the hell wouldn't you DESTROY a suicide note if you decided not to go through with it?

2 - Why don't Rome and Regina ever take their garbage out?

3- Why was Regina going through the garbage?

I'm really hoping that some of the midseason shows are worth watching because my mind may need a break from all this...

Or maybe it fell out of the trash bin and it landed under a chair or something. It would've made sense for Rome to ask Regina where she got it, but maybe that will be mentioned next ep. Or maybe not, lol.

I don't have a problem with the writers allowing the audience to fill in the blanks; whether it is laziness on their part or they are just assuming that we are smart enough to figure things out, it's fine as long as I can come up with some reasonable explanation for things. Like with Delilah's accent; I don't need the show to tell me that she is from France. The mention of her at the airport on the way to France when she and John first met was more than enough for me to get the gist.

[Clanstarling]

29 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

I don't have a problem with the writers allowing the audience to fill in the blanks; whether it is laziness on their part or they are just assuming that we are smart enough to figure things out, it's fine as long as I can come up with some reasonable explanation for things. Like with Delilah's accent; I don't need the show to tell me that she is from France. The mention of her at the airport on the way to France when she and John first met was more than enough for me to get the gist.

Yes, the French thing was enough for me too. I don't mind filling in the blanks usually, and I'm giving this show a lot of slack. But there are a few things that bug. But not enough to make me stop watching. :)

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

Yes, the French thing was enough for me too. I don't mind filling in the blanks usually, and I'm giving this show a lot of slack. But there are a few things that bug. But not enough to make me stop watching. :)

Yeah, obviously I'm still watching.  If I do quit watching, it will be for something for consequential than sloppy writing (side eye at you, Delilah).  But, I will say that if they cleaned these things up, the storytelling would be much smoother (and detail-oriented viewers would be less distracted).

[SpiritSong]

7 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

This show is soapy fun and continues to surprise me, as I completely avoid spoilers and most speculation. I like the characters and the actors, and will continue to sit back and enjoy it for as long as it lasts. Who's with me? :D

Eh, I don't know. Unlike most of the posters here, the only actors I'd ever seen before were Grace Park and Ron Livingston. Since I like Ron Livingston, I gave the show a chance. Who knew after 6 episodes, his total screen time would only be 20 minutes or so? Most of the characters are unlikable, except for Rome and Regina and maybe Katherine. I'll keep watching for a while, but if the show got cancelled I wouldn't exactly be mourning.

[HazelEyes4325]

16 minutes ago, SpiritSong said:

Eh, I don't know. Unlike most of the posters here, the only actors I'd ever seen before were Grace Park and Ron Livingston. Since I like Ron Livingston, I gave the show a chance. Who knew after 6 episodes, his total screen time would only be 20 minutes or so? Most of the characters are unlikable, except for Rome and Regina and maybe Katherine. I'll keep watching for a while, but if the show got cancelled I wouldn't exactly be mourning.

I would very much like this show to succeed, but it needs to get its act together for that to happen.  I don't think that's impossible as there were some really great moments in this episode.  It's just that Nash is so obsessed with the parts of the show that are NOT working.  As it is now, I wouldn't be mourning if this ended up being a one-season show either.  At least it would free the actors up for better roles.

[kazza]

8 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

This show is soapy fun and continues to surprise me, as I completely avoid spoilers and most speculation. I like the characters and the actors, and will continue to sit back and enjoy it for as long as it lasts. Who's with me? :D

<raises hand> I *like* most of the subplots and characters. Maggie's the only one I find mildly irritating with her perfect quips and Division 1 basketball pedigree, but I suspect that's more my problem than the character's. I don't even dislike Delilah that much. She just looks awful most of the time, which is probably realistic given what she's going through. Gary cracks me up, I'm invested in Rome and Regina's story, and the Eddie/Katherine/Jon triangle continues to intrigue me. 

[possibilities]

On 11/4/2018 at 9:10 PM, mythoughtis said:

 According to google, the network ordered additional episodes of the show.  I can’t figure out why.

Ratings are pretty good, from what I've seen. "Cancel Bear" at zap2it says it's a likely renewal.
https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/renewcancel/cancel-bear-vs-abc-week-5-2018-19/

I think what helps Eddie get at least some likability is his dad behavior. I like him with Theo.

I kind of liked Delilah when she spent the day with Sophie when Sophie got suspended from school, also.

[Xcptnl]

On 11/2/2018 at 3:57 PM, topanga said:

But she's doing more than that. She's hiding aspects of his finances: I can't tell if there's an insurance policy or other account that lists Delilah's name. And she keeps look at some other random list with people's names on them? What are these documents, and why does she refuse to give them to the intended recipients? Beyond frustrating at this point. 

And she had the key to the mailbox in the other building and knew where it was.  Just weird.